What Is The Difference Between Branding & Marketing? What's more important?

so guys when melinda calls I answer and here we are Melinda's like I think it's time for another meeting but the switch up today is that she's brought in another person that you are familiar with too if you're familiar with the channel none other than Fabian Geralt our he's here and I think we're gonna be talking about something that started to get under the skin of a lot of creative people Donald Miller put out this video about the importance of marketing over branding and he gave branding a short shrift for sure in this video branding though is a luxury I think you need to be making about 500 million dollars before you even start thinking a whole lot about branding and get your colors right your logo and that sort of stuff but branding people have to be familiar with your brand in order to be trained to feel a certain way about your brand until then you need to do marketing because marketing is really where you make your money marketing is when you tell somebody to buy your product and you explain why they should buy your product mostly because I think he's a marketing guy of course he's going to talk about marketing so I think that sets the stage for the conversation let's see where this goes so Melinda what are we talking about today we're talking about the difference between branding and marketing okay so you have a perspective on this not yet I know that's why I wanted to to bring the cat yeah our cat here okay I'm sure I have an opinion on it that I am unable to yet articulate yeah but I would like to hear from both of you and your perspectives because as a brand identity designer term brand strategist there's a lot of overlap and marketing and from hearing that Donald Miller video about like we shouldn't even worry about it until the company was that what did he say 50 50 million he changed his mind throughout the video but 50 million yeah 50 million yeah you shouldn't even worry about branding unless you're a 50 million dollar how okay he started out with 500 I know it changed yeah 500 million and then it went down and then he corrected himself 250 okay and baby and you work with a lot of startups too yes we're not at that point with companies of all sizes and Melinda sent me the video and my head exploded and I'm like wait a minute Don Miller is a good guy he's talking about story branding like that's his friend right yeah that's it that's a name literally the name of his book ran right um and I read it and I you know I I liked it quite a bit and then I see this video and I see the statement and I was like yeah Melinda I'm ready to talk about that okay well I gotta ask you because I watched it and I think there was a lot of fire in theory before I watched a video so I'm like chill just watch it objectively try to remain neutral and watch this thing and see what's getting people all prickly about it so you said your your head exploded so one of the things that he said that really made you think I don't agree with this point of view so I think that we did he position it it was one of those quick videos I I think he the way he framed that was a little bit misleading and that's what gets everyone fired up including myself but rightfully so right because you shouldn't frame something in that way in my eyes right the way that he talked about it needs to be a 50-million company dollar company before you even start branding it makes absolutely no sense so to me this is very much the cart before the horse right because you this is a very like antiquated analogy here but you cannot you cannot talk about something you cannot market if you haven't branded it yet like if you don't know what you're talking about right and in the video he also talked about simon psionics famous why and he says there's no need to ask why you just need to send emails at that point you just email email email and don't ask the question why behind the company and to me that is completely against my fundamental ideas right and like you first have to create a platform you have to create a brand platform to really derive why the company exists you know you have to create obviously the company name I mean it's basic branding pieces that need to be in place the reason why he said it is because he talked about this 50 million dollar company that said we need to do branding and he's like no you don't so what doesn't work in this video is that of course the company already had to spend a lot of money on branding otherwise it would have never gotten to 50 million dollars hmm okay anything else Todd for now okay being so accommodating okay I think let's first understand the structure of these kinds of videos because I make these kinds of videos too they're designed to push buttons and to incite your emotions because nobody cares if he's like I love branding a lot marketing let's talk about marketing today nobody from the design side nobody on the brand space would would even care nobody would share this video look what do you think so he's doing I think what many people that are really smart about positioning says I'm for this and right now I'm not for that so it gets all the people that are yes we're marketers and I also want us to kind of be aware of our own bias or biases right or biases however you say that word which is your branding guy so of course you think branding is really important I think I didn't fully realize this before but he's really a marketing guy he's teaching people how to market their products and services so he's a marketing guy and I think and this is our own kind of we want to shape reality the way we see it so I'm just trying to look at like as robotically as I can what is being said and what is more important or whatever so let's get into that okay let's just say you have a product and you have a hundred thousand dollars do you spend that on branding would you spend that on marketing I think you have to divide it in a very smart way okay right I mean you should in his thirty seventy rule is is not a bad rule right I mean out of that budget you should must probably take 30 you know percent or so on branding because you have to establish everything right you have to create the word before you spread the gospel right and so marketing is advertising it's basically putting the word out there you need to do a ton lot of that right but you first need to define what in the business for so I think it does make sense that you split less for branding and more for marketing because if people don't hear about it they're not gonna buy your stuff and if they don't buy your stuff you're out of business right yeah mm-hmm I think I can also imagine why I put out this video because he consults for firms probably 50 million and up and they're like we're gonna spend all the money on branding is that well you have no business so after hearing that for a while a piece like this comes up that's why I like some people like Chris you're really salty it's like well I've heard this question and in people beating their head against the wall so many times that eventually I come to the conclusion like this is what you guys need to hear and let's cut out the BS let's get started because you're here because you don't have enough runway there's not enough revenue to talk about you're gonna be out of business in six months we got to fix that and stop spending money on branding okay so let's take a step back for people who are like branding marketing these are like terms I use all the time interchangeably let's start with the definition of branding okay the way that you see it what is branding you know I have different ways but but I'll just you know off the cuff now you know what what is branding I mean branding really is that it establishes the why behind the brand it establishes a look and feel it establishes a positioning and an a differentiator in the marketplace and all of that combined is the beginning of branding and so I think it gets complicated right because in one of your posts recently Chris you're not about branding being something that gets people to come back marketing is something to get people to go to in the first place that - I think is a fine line right because without the brand being created you know you can't eat market so it's like branding marketing branding marketing it kind of goes in it goes in this flow yeah so branding on the one hand is establishing that emotional connection and then on the other hand is to keep it up right and go back to our values and make sure that we keep evolving our brands but marketing is obviously key to getting the message out right so when I hear this it's like okay I'm a graphic designer I've been calling my logo branding what you're saying sounds a little bit different than what I've been doing and so I think it's healthy for us to have this conversation and and do like a public service announcement that if you make a logo if you make a mark you're an identity designer your logo maker a lot of foreign person you're not a branding person yet it's one facet but it's just one very small facet actually right so when you say it's the why behind the company establishing the look and feel diff and shading through positioning what does that look like what are what are the things that you make when you help somebody brand their company their product or service so in the beginning it's a brand platform as the industry calls it right so it's really identifying how do it's kind of like a business plan but a brand plan right what do we stand for why do we exist how do we differentiate how do we need to position our company to stand out what is the big why I call it a because statement right you know this is why we exist you know what connects with customers and understanding the customers before you even launch understanding who will these people be what channels are they on right how can we connect with them read the comments in social media and start becoming part of top psyche all of that even though it could be seen as marketing that should be established as part of branding before you even create a name for the company before you even create the logo and the visual aspects and then all of that needs to be derived in some sort of verbal aura to write like a toolbox of what are the right words that we use how do we want to speak how do we want to be seen as a company are we you know I would a friend you know I would a leader right how do we want to come across all of that needs to be established and like you said the logo is one little component of it but people think it's a huge component because that's what they see but the rest they feel and I think that is so crucial and that's why Donald Miller's video the way that he positioned it was just like because it was just positioned not in the correct way mmm is branding eccentric or client centric in your opinion how do you mean it by eccentric well you say well why do we exist what what is it we're doing what's the look and feel do we design that based on our values and beliefs and our purpose and mission or do we look at what customers want and design our identity around serving a community there's a trap wash anyway no absolutely both in a way it's in the end it comes to shared values right but the values need to come from it from within all right so I interview a ton of entrepreneurs every two weeks from my podcast and every time it's the same story of this is why I start this company I have a strong belief I'm really driven to this discos it totally against the grain but I need to do this and I need to do this this way and you know what there are people out there who think like me and those are the ones that I want to come aboard soon the entrepreneur knows it's not self centric because in the end it's still all about the customer when they create a product or service but there needs to be this strong stigma attached kind of like this diss soul attached to it and there's nothing more natural then when the soul comes from from the entrepreneur right because then they can actually really lead the company and talk the talk right so what you're talking about is if we were to draw two circles there's an overlap between our beliefs and values and our customers beliefs and values and where that alignment that crossover starts to become part of our differentiator what we stand for who we champion and so we have to study the customers a bit too right perfect exactly now the reason why I think a lot of people are upset over this video I think it's a little misguided now I'm gonna share some of my opinion because marketing and branding depending on your definition are almost the same thing there's a lot of overlap seriously like we're we're like blood cousins we might even be twins and one just focuses on something else and where this really gets I think a little tricky for us is the traditional definition of marketing we're not the same creature but as marketing is evolving an understanding of marketing as is branding we're starting to see a lot of overlap between those two worlds and that's why I'm like if you just take the word branding and switch it out for the win he says marketing you'll be okay again right right it's because we need to do something that moves the needle for our clients if our clients are not in business if they're not getting the word out if they're nonprofit NGO if we can't get awareness about what it is we're doing then we don't exist we're just talking to ourselves and that's I think called insanity so we need to understand who the customers are see so we're I don't like get all crazy about this is I have a newer appreciation for the word marketing depending on who talking about it so we talked to Seth Godin when we read his book about this as marketing it's like yeah the old idea of marketing was just advertising it's just repetition of message over all media and controlling the dialogue well today you know you can't do that Moritz push-push verse it is right so now he's like marketing is the generous act of helping other people achieve their goals now you might say wait wait wait just let's use the word branding in their branding is the generous act of helping or let's use the word sales sales is you know set so it's all kind of like we're starting to come up with a much more healthy definition of the role and purpose of companies as they relate to their customers and you know the best brand strategists or even visual brands people right the best ones are the ones that keep up with marketing and the understand marketing and they're actually interested in marketing the interesting and selling right because Oh sparks fly in the intersection of marketing and branding of course now you're successful and you wouldn't be if all you cared about was like meeh meeh meeh let's do the look and feel and you don't actually help your customers get awareness get customers get traction improve in the marketplace they're gonna be out of business all right so you have to solve a real business problem and one of the biggest functions in business is sales and in doing a little research for that Instagram post I came upon this thing about marketing and I can't remember but it was the CEO of a very large multi-billion dollar company he said marketing is the most important thing that our company does that's why we don't trust the marketing people to do it and there are different definitions about what marketing is and marketing can include and should probably include product design user experience journey mapping everything so from top to bottom because now we know if one part of your story is out of alignment then it's all out of alignment and it's not true this is why traditional marketing doesn't work anymore today because you cannot say something that isn't backed up by actual experience you and I are more likely to go on Amazon read the 300 reviews and see what people say then to see any piece of advertising and print in social or any other place because we just don't trust people anymore but we trust people who we have some kind of connection to that's why influencer marketing is quite popular and integrated branding is really popular it's because now we trust these people and we rely on them to vet what is good not good for us right and it's interesting to think about how these reviews actually ended up there right so I'm an author so I wrote two books I know your your your writing - yes in the middle of it almost done what's the status done there we go pre-order link it was somewhere in those it is not easy to get reviews it is really really difficult English people rave about your book yeah it's really hard to get them to do it right so that process of actually getting people to review your book so that then others can read the reviews and feel like oh there's not even branding and marketing involved there's still behind the scenes right I think that's that's an interesting yeah you know angle to look at and something else that I was thinking about while you were talking if you think about you know universities universities branding if it ever is being taught in universities in some I know it is it falls on the marketing I am 100% certain of that right so this is kind of like this curveball right of like how does marketing and branding really relate I'm sure that there's a hierarchy that branding actually is part of marketing it wasn't in my education they were two completely separate things and they and both looked at each other as oh that's horrible you don't want to be in the marketing department marketing we'll look at us oh I still look this is still kind of like the stigma right but I'm wondering you went to art school right you went to design school right so I think it's different than if you go to you know a regular dish but Chris drop it because I'm interested to hear about that you know that was just a thought that it's kind of like bubbles up to marketing what do you want me to drop you're looking for a fight this is maybe I'm looking for a fight so let's give it to I came in with this weird attitude this morning you have to be prepared okay so what do you want me to drop it which I drop no I'm interested in how you see do you see because we're talking about branding versus marketing right and on my drive here I thought about wait a minute if Mark if branding is taught in a regular University it might be taught under the marketing umbrella do you see it that way too because obviously we feel that the two of them are very related but yet they can be put into their own little you know area okay I see you're setting you up to say something that's gonna be controversial so I will deliver I honestly think from the few exposures that I've had to how branding or marketing is taught it's vastly outdated it very textbook it's a very analytical and not much creativity is introduced in there and I think I think it becomes dangerous when we start to apply labels and get into tribalism where it's like the marketing people look down on the branding people and the branding people look down on the marketing people if all of us had said what is the end goal of what we're trying to do which is to improve our clients business to make an impact on their bottom line period all the other stuff to me is tactics like how do we get there and what you call it I don't really care it starts to me it starts with understanding who the customers are and seeing how that would align with what we want to do in the world so that we can find that overlap so maybe there's a major called overlap and we sit down and we study what users want and who we are and then we teach people the different facets but they don't have to go eight semesters into like making one mark well you're not talking about now which was really the question you're talking about the future maybe I should have Fabian on every show because just how promote every course book and initiative we have just like the sound yeah yeah I think that's the problem Sarah who's off camera right now it was controlling the audio she just gave me basically part one of two parts of what she's learned in school and marketing I had lots of questions for her but one of the things that we kind of concluded was they teach you kind of the theory of it the idea but not so much like now what now what do you do with this information is that fair Sarah okay so that's kind of like where we're stuck and you and I know there are classes that design schools I call it they call it branding but it's not branding at all right it's really identity design systems that's really all it is because if you're not thinking about the name if you don't understand positioning and marketing and messaging and copywriting and shaping the voice not just to look you're really not getting into that so it turns out this is actually very difficult stuff mm-hmm you you have to be masters of multiple disciplines and this is this is a tall order I think in his book the brand flip Marty was talking about the skills required to be a really great brand strategist and he says what five people can really do this so it's a very small group of people you have to think visually you have to be able to communicate articulate with words you have to think high level the 30,000 foot view so now we've pretty much chopped the whole field down right and you have to co-create right then I think that was important when you talked about things Hill aberration yeah when you talked about branding and marketing they cannot be separated but guess what happens with client work marketing and sales is separated right so it keeps all of these Silas and that's why all these companies have these issues right so when we create a brand with with an entrepreneur and you know in his team most of them are marketers some of them is just found a co-founder when these people go back to the rest of the company they were not included right dear-dear sales it's like oh you just push you just push but that's not how it works right mm-hmm okay I have a question about all this so if labels aren't that important but potential clients and entrepreneurs are listening to people like Donald Miller so in their head they're thinking marketing marketing marketing that's what I need but then all of us who work on branding or calling ourselves brand strategist or we do branding and it's there's a disconnect then between entrepreneurs looking for an answer in marketing but then we're all calling it branding would it boohoo some of us to actually say we're a marketing firm to then connect with and attract those clients that are potentially looking at and listening to people like don't yeah I mean you can call yourself whatever you want the proof is in the pudding what is it that you really do what are the functions of the company and what are your goals so this is a question that comes up quite a bit there if there's this invisible pressure that people feel in the creative space that do more and offer more and yet we're known we know less about the stuff that we're doing and so calling yourself a brand strategist a branding person a marketer of integrated marketing branding company you can call yourself whatever you want but here's the problem what is it that you really do I like to look at it to function and then you can design whatever label you want around it right so if Donald Miller if Donald Miller is out there and he's saying these things he's just one voice and I think we're over amplifying the weight and influence that this one person has because for every one Donald Miller talked about marketing there's probably thirty five branding people talking about branding when you go to design conference a very few of them are titled like what to do with marketing it's almost like ID any design and branding is I know this because I go to conferences all the time so again I just think we're conflating like his presence and his influence and that he has a magical ability to reach out to all these companies or hiring people and then to diminish what it is that you do at the end of day if your focus is not to make a big impact on your clients business you will be eventually out of business that's it so it's about priorities for you and I think I mean if you call yourself a marketing firm this implies to the actual client that you will do social media whatever ends with marketing right social media marketing advertising content marketing content marketing all these things did you actually might not do right so I think it would go the wrong the wrong way they're they're still there are all of these stickers on the things that we do right and the problem is like we can unpeeled and we know what's behind but but clients don't right so it's really difficult to to discuss what do you do and who you are with one label I think that's and that's what Chris was heading to you have to start coming up with creative ways of describing your practice of how you help clients you know so for us it's clarity and focus right because that's really why people come to me I realized they don't come for a logo that might be an end result right but they come for clarity and focus yeah I speak that way now because that resonates with them yeah when you're speaking more towards their problem - so you're selling the problem you're not selling a service yeah I learned it from Donald Mill yes yeah I think in in his book the one-page marketing plan written by Alan did he describes his actually really kind of interesting scenario he says so like the circus is coming to town and this is your business and you have an elephant and you you paint or a sign on elephant he's oh that's called promotion okay and then you bring the elephant and March them into town and it happens to trample flowers that's called publicity and then the mayor is upset that you've trampled his flowers but you talk it over and he's okay with it that's called public relations and if you hand out a bunch of Flyers saying the circus is coming to town that's called advertising and if you have people come up to the booth near the tent and ask questions about the circus I think he calls that sales and he's a if you designed the whole thing that's called marketing so it's kind of interesting his old definition and so I probably messed up some parts of that story but I remember it was like it was a good way to look at this right and so we're all like very inclined to like define silos like this is my job does what I do I only do sales and that's probably a short-sighted thing because this integration collaboration co-creation is actually very important because we're starting to realize people buy and behave in very different ways than they used to and so we need to work to build more versatile units of people collaborating and and being cross discipline with somebody who's looking at the bigger picture now let's pretend I told that story correctly and I put the labels on it correctly what do you guys think about that story and would you change any of the definitions I would ask then what how could branding be incorporated in that no no this is a book on marketing it wasn't you were to add to it like what do you think where is branding in that I asked you first no you didn't you asked me second I asked you guys what do you think of that story now stop this whole conversation is about branding and marketing yeah so but you're part of the conversation right so I'm asking you what do you think about that little story okay here's here's how we should have compartmentalize it to make it a little easier did any of the scenarios and the descriptions feel like they're out of alignment just replay it you know paint it trample through the flowers publicity its featured the newspaper right it's publicity then the Mayers not upset it's called public relations and then you go to the tent and that's called sales but the design of the whole thing is called marketing it's the high level strategic planning of these things the execution is tactics any of those scenarios sound like they're off to you handing out flyers doesn't sound like advertising it does right it's like a reputation of a message it's a one-way one-to-many form of communication and I go off I like I like your question right like how weirdest branding fit into this right it's always like Marsha Marsha Marsha it's like what about me where am I in a story can we get back to what's important didn't she ask the question yeah yeah no you're right yeah the question that's all okay yeah because because it is it is it is you know now we compartmentalize again right the different the different aspects of it but but where does branding fit into I think it's a super interesting question and I wonder myself right because we as branders would look at it and like well the entire thing is branding right I hated that right yes so are we the ones and I believe that's how it would be who are behind the scenes that that the tell the elephant to start going push right and say okay now the elephant is ready now the elephant represents what we wanted - elephant to represent now the elephant looks the way that it should look and you know it you know pick the right elephant - yeah not the gray one you know just make it yours right so but but I think that that's kind of how it fits in what do you think it's a nice are it's just boosts our conversation about that no no I don't I don't know Fabian because the way I would look at is where does the branding person fit in I think the branding person fits in where you talked to the person who owns the circus the Ringling Brothers and you say you guys are entertainers this is what you do this is part of your family and you like putting on big shows like I wonder what people like the same kinds of things Oh small towns they they're like looking for a little magic and mystery I wonder what their needs are and then you start to align those two things and say look there's this thing what's call it the circus right and we can bring in something like animals or maybe we can do something like performers doing acrobatics and tricks and lion taming does that sound so we start to design and craft experience and we think how will we get the word out why don't we bring an elephant and why don't we paint it well what color should we use and how should that look what kind of elephant should we bring in and then so on and so forth and this is if I'm listening to you and I'm just going through your words there it's the why like why do we want to do this what are we trying to do we're we're an entertainment company well what's the look and feel it should be a kind of very mmm it should feel accessible it should feel friendly and fun and joyful or maybe you should feel European like this let's call it do Soleil and that's what we'll do right and we'll get rid of the animals because people don't like animals being treated unwell okay so that's that's what we'll do instead of animals we'll do this and we'll we'll use theatrics and lighting and and pyrotechnics and hydraulics to create the show nobody's ever seen before what should we call it how should we talk about this circus of the Sun that sounds pretty cool let's do that let's come up with 15 iterations of a name so that's what branding fits in so if we use that okay I mean I'm just using Fabian's story here yes I think there's a couple alternatives to that that's an intentional one that's actually sitting down and saying this is what we're setting out to do and in planning all of that and then moving forward there's the others that do and I would say somes do start with just the marketing they pick a random elephant they walk them through town and they just go for it but even in that they're still branding that's happening it's just not intentional that's how I'm seeing it okay do you I don't know look at this I do have an opinion I'm just processing your thoughts there let's take the same circus thing no we know that there's been a big shift away from the traditional circus that we see in cinema and the ones that are successful now like Cirque du Soleil so let's pretend this circus thing and and they did a little bit the promotions that publicist advertising all that kind of stuff and they expected a thousand people to show up but 400 people showed up and they keep doing this over and over again and so their business is dwindling doc do we need a new logo it's like what are we doing so they approached Fabian Design Consulting Group right or Melinda livesey Consulting Group and they asked you what should we do so the Brander says we need to rebrand let's call it something else like how much do we change of the clients core business to help them the marketer would probably say I know how to market this we gotta get on social media there's this new thing so each person falls back on their discipline and what they think works but the true person this overlap person says I don't know people want this anymore if you're if your joy is to entertain people it's not through animals per se and if this is the problem in terms of how society is moving look what can we do with what's core to who you are and what people want let's get rid of animals let's get into this business of performing humans doing extra Norden extraordinary feats let's do that let's change your whole business so to me that whether you call that branding or marketing it doesn't really matter it's this is what's gonna move the needle and to me that clearly falls into the branding aspect right when you said let's give it a new name let's give it a new logo I think that's how a lot of people think about branding but really it is let's ask first why like why do you exist does this make sense it's just the right audience should we even be doing this should we bring in right so I think it is it is a it is not even agreement what you're saying I understand but I don't necessarily have the same point of view I'm just saying okay let me ask you this question if we talk about positioning as a discipline and for our audience who doesn't know what that might mean positioning is the art or the strategy of occupying a space a position in a person's mind okay and you say that's a vital function of branding is it is it exclusive to branding or do people who do marketing also do positioning mmm true that right yeah okay so if we were to pull our audience right now those people who are watching this let us know down below if you call yourself a branding person how many of you guys actually do positioning for your clients and even know what the heck that is I'm going to suspect it's gonna drop like okay people who call themselves branding people actually just did logo design so that drops off most of the people and the people who truly do branding how many of you guys actually think about positioning and being strategic about that that numbers gonna drop so now we have four people left watching but if we were to ask marketing people how many of you guys do positioning I would say it's a pretty high percentage would you agree or disagree yeah no I totally okay yeah so this is my own bubble with issue are yeah so you are yourself some hybrid graphic designer brand er brand strategist incorporating certain facets of marketing traditionally definitions and so then your definition of branding might be exclusive to you right now because you're a unique person right maybe a lot of unique yes not only the glass majority right everyone who calls themselves a brand strategist they would they would come from the same place of solutioning isn't an role for us to do and the people that do brand strategy are they're more likely to have a background in graphic design or marketing or sales that's an exquisite question and I can't answer it but I have a feeling it tends more to how its marketing and I might think I'll tell I don't think I don't think you're off of that see so now we're like okay so where we disagree and why we got all fired up over this maybe it's like misguided in my opinion because maybe there's some truth to what he's saying if we just base it on the law of averages and what we're seeing out there today not where it's going but where it is today in terms like the traditional role and responsibilities of marketing versus branding let's just say so we still upset at Donald Miller for saying what he's saying oh absolutely okay let's talk about it no no no the things it I don't like when little you know little YouTube clips yeah are overly self-serve video sometimes a little bit a little bit you know like miss misleading right especially in today's climate right into saying that you should not brand until you have 50 million five hundred million whatever guy that just is not correct right when it comes out of context and it was out of context you know and not asking the question why and instead sending email of the email of a email that does not make a lot of sense to because the email needs to come from from from a space of why right so but other than that he is fantastic I love his stuff but this was something good to pick on you know because of course it was it was getting us interested in okay so how does this really work right Melinda have we put this issue to bed yes it might wake up with a nightmare just breathe okay well I think that's it thank you everybody and thank you all so Melinda and Fabian for joining me here in the studio and having this very thought-provoking conversation about the differences between marketing and branding and perhaps our instincts is to go really kind of tribal and say this is us this is them and it's war when we actually step back we're all the same family it's cousins and we're all better off by having broader more open-minded discussions about different disciplines so that we can learn what to integrate into what it is that we do for the purpose of improving and impacting our clients business the end with that you guys I'll see you guys next time

Channel: The Futur

Views: 150,219

Keywords: chris do, business of design, how to, learning styles, learning, student, kinesthetic, visual, melinda livsey, social media, futur brand strategy, graphic design, marketing tips, marketing tips 2019, storytelling, how to build an audience, branding vs marketing, what is branding, what is marketing, donald miller, donald miller branding, donald miller marketing, story brand, 1 Page Marketing Plan, marty Neumeier, brand gap, brand flip, branding, marketing

Id: yK7Rk7Oe588

Length: 37min 1sec (2221 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 29 2019