The Problem of Branding—Differentiate or Die

welcome to the future you guys we are live today and Wednesday I think you might be getting too much of us what are we gonna be talking about today we're gonna be talking to author entrepreneur designer creative director entrepreneur and maybe I said that already a brand intervention his name is David Brier and he's gonna be joining us today on the raw show you guys David Brier was born in Brooklyn he made his way to Manhattan to create his career he went to the School of Visual Arts in New York City here's a few things I know about mr. David Brier he created a viral video that has at this point over three hundred sixty-six thousand views on YouTube pretty cool he's won more Awards I can count three hundred thirty International Design Awards and the most notable to me because it has the word presidential in it the presidential ambassador for Global Entrepreneurship there's a super cool medal that he has if you search for him you'll see him holding it up you know another cool thing about David is he got mister shark shark tank himself Daymond John wrote the foreword to his book brand intervention he's been featured in so many different magazines and publications for Fast Company Adweek Forbes New York Times Communication Arts Inc dye line and so many more if you don't know when heating about this book perhaps you will know a little bit more after the show but here's a spread from the book I really like the boldness of the design of the book itself and he's one not to mince words so they're a few words in the book and it's printed in big bold type super easy to digest he's been able to distill a lot of knowledge in a very long career into like bite-sized pieces that you can read process understand here's an example of some of his work this is for a company called true taste and what I love about this and when we talk about branding we're going way beyond the graphic designer but we're talking about how it speaks and the messaging there's a there's a metaphor he makes about it's like what are the refreshments at your party that's the messaging and the line here that you can't see how blowed up for you and he wrote this line delicious you Tricia's nothing suspicious like that so good and here are some ideas six quotes that he thinks are really important and since it's very hard to read I'll just read it here for you guys branding is the art of differentiation and that's reiterated throughout the entire book number two having awesome brand facts that customers have to search for is like having buried treasure number three hello I'm sorry it's wonderful only if you can find it number three I could be this there's a law if you're using cliches and in your branding you're promoting your category and not your brand something really think about you guys and we'll talk more about that with David in a minute social media won't have won't save your brand if you have nothing to connect with number five I'm sorry I doing such a bad job of reading this you guys when the only tool you have is a Hammer Every Problem begins to resemble nail and that's Abraham Maslow the last cookie cutters are for baking not for branding and this is where David works is his office and we'll be talking to him and you'll see him in his office and let's before we do all that stuff you guys [Music] all right David welcome to the show can we see mr. Dave right there you are in his studio so you guys saw earlier the wider shot and we got this working and we're live we're a little bit late I'm sorry you guys nobody's gonna get fired this is mostly my fault we're having some internet connections here David welcome to Cheryl how are you doing this morning I'm doing great Chris thanks so much for having me I'm I'm pumped as you as you can probably tell by all the crazy stuff yeah you're a little bit excited about this this is awesome I love your energy and your enthusiasm maybe you're over caffeinated at the moment who knows or maybe this is your natural state of being now I know that when I read things about you you're you're very proud of being a New Yorker but you're not in New York right now where are you I'm about about an hour east of Minneapolis western Wisconsin and I remember when I first moved out here people were kind of like you're from where what's a New Yorker doing here and well I said it's part of the witness protection program now just like this you know then they'd see that I had this little this little kind of little turns in my mouth and they would then go oh okay he's joking a little bit we hope you hope okay so before we dive into the show I have a lot of questions look I'm holding a book here guys I have the book I've read the whole book I've got little notes here so there's lots of us lots of things for us to talk about before we dive into this I'm gonna give you guys a heads up on the show itself that we're doing some giveaways today we're giving away a few things and this is awesome that David's doing this first the giveaway I think that you all want is what I'm gonna hold in my hands and I'm telling a little bit about how to win one of these things so I myself have a handful of hardcover books and that are signed and autographed by the author I hope the exposure is okay you guys can see that we're gonna give some of those books away and David also has a couple of really cool bags of coffee as you can tell he has a thing with coffee David what does that look like Dave's right there this is that we had when the book was first done I'll give you the whole back story I was in August last year I was speaking at the Museum of Modern Art I when I was done with a gig I kind of was roaming around the streets just do it just Street walking like a native New Yorker and I found this place that had the most amazing collection of coffees and anybody that follows me and knows me they know that I really like real excellent and so I felt this roaster this coffee was ridiculous and anyway so I ended up having them roast a batch just for the launch so I have about five five bags of these that I'm gonna make we're gonna make available to some of the folks that are going to be participating in today's activity okay so we got books to give away and we have some bags of coffee excellence of premium coffee buying a coffee aficionado himself to give away with a special brand intervention packaging design but wait there's more it's like I'm like Ron Popeil right now there's there's more so those of you guys that are tuning in just for our YouTube audience we're going to give away something I have to tell you how to get this the rules of brand intervention these are 22 of David's rules distilled into this PDF and we're gonna give it away to a couple people so how are you gonna win any of this up you're gonna go on Twitter and Dave you tell them and I'm gonna tell them the hashtag you're gonna use this hash like David Brier Live Bri er live David Brier live use that hashtag and then what do they need to do basically what you need to do is see you need to show that what you're actually learning from today's show that it's how is functioning is a little bit of a remote intervention for you so your love and your passion I need you just be with a cup you know an espresso cup cam and I after yourself and post it with the hashtag on Twitter and when I and we're gonna end up choosing as we go we're gonna go okay this person nailed it because that is an aside for those that have kind of followed this one of the things that happened then the inspiration behind this was one of things that happened when people started getting the book is they started taking photographs of themselves reading the book I have people look I see those those are good they're amazing I mean I have someone whose ice-fishing I haven't dentist whose ignore patient who's sitting there actually reading the book and I have someone who's owned a bubble-bath they have people like all over the place people in coffee shops all over the all around the country and overseas even even Ian from logo Pete sent me his and so as long as we just get some of those that kind of energy then we'll pick and we'll go okay bang and I will shift now the only caveat on that is gotta be a u.s. address not going to ship this overseas okay it's fair I think that's a fair requirement of the show we're giving away free stuff we don't want to pay up see dollars to ship you something that's already valuable so let's recap you need to take a picture yourself you need to take it today holding up a cup of coffee doesn't need to be coffee inside whatever your beverage of choice is I don't even drink coffee so I'm gonna hold something you need to be really creative and show how your day is being interrupted right yeah intervened there's some kind of intervention happening awesome yep great so I'm going to jump into having a couple of questions here let me see here my questions hmm let's start at the beginning here how do you define branding what's the difference between identity design and branding this is like a big thing when you just need to clear it up too so I consider this part a public service announcement for the good of the people please clear this out less alright good so alright so the first thing is is how do you define branding now I'm gonna give a little backstory here to really give a context because I remember some years ago I was I had reached a point where I was you know I was seeing and I know you're you're kind of like an avid learner I'm an avid learner and I considered the best entrepreneurs and the best designers to be those who are always interested in learning more and refining their game and honing their skills so what happened was is I was curious I went to Amazon and I typed in branding and this was probably say about four years ago at the time and looked under books and I got over 6,000 books I think I did the math I think it would take you I forget how many hundreds of years would take if you read one book a day you know and the the idea that there were over 6,000 books on a very specific exacting tool was one thing that I was rather surprised about I could understand several hundred or even up to a thousand but six thousand plus and now it's actually for 8,000 plus Wow that was one that was one thing the other thing was that I saw that there were a lot of like a lot of like different ideas and what you do and when I personally found what I was reading a book I would take a 300 page book and I'd find 10 pages of it would tend to be like the meat and the rest was filling it kind of like was it was explaining what those 10 pages actually did I didn't need that and you see by the style which I wrote the book I give you like chunks that you need and just no trimmed all the fat I eliminate the the whole deal so what I brought it down to was the branding came down to four words with all the different philosophies and theories of people had it came down to the art of differentiation those four words because our job our role as designers is when we're taking a product or a service our job is to put it in into a space where there's already players there may be a lot of players maybe a very very crowded maybe not so crowded but if it doesn't succeed in getting noticed and recognition for our clients then the problem is gonna be that we have failed to differentiate amongst all the toys out there okay so that's how I define branding branding is the art of differentiation and I personally use this not only for branding but I've also I've also helped philanthropic activities that I'm involved in and I've literally raised millions of dollars using that one definition okay so I have a lot of questions for you then how does one differentiate and then I want to be clear because I have a point of view on this is somebody could argue that when you change the logo or the identity design you're differentiating is not enough well the the full concept is what are you differentiating against it's not just a friend it's not just change for change sake and it's not just differentiation for differentiation sake but like let's let me give you this this frame so if we were to pick any topic whether it's going to talk about coffee mugs are we going to talk about sneakers or cars or computers or whatever we could Google whatever we want and we would end up with hundreds or thousands or more options back right yep okay good so now understanding that there's all of those choices the job of differentiation is in that world of options so everything we do so that that logo the name the slogan the package the overall brand vocabulary the color the aesthetic all of the components that go into the brand they have to work toward differentiating that's why and the great successful brands like neither you nor I are gonna confuse Nike with and with another brand we're not going to compute confused Tommy John underwear with other underwear we're not going to confuse an app Apple products with other products so those are well differentiated brands and the differentiating themselves in all of the big all the noise that's in that space okay that's making sense so you're looking at differentiation in a much larger a bigger way than just one aspect of it so if I just write slogans then that's not enough if I just design packages that's not enough it has to be the entire the entire brand itself and every way that a customer comes in touch with that every every touch point every touch point okay so for me you've cleared out the whole differentiation thing and I like that that you use the word art so then there's that part so it's just not differentiate it's the art of differentiation so there implies some some kind of creative process there can you speak about that a little bit sure what what and let me let me also frame this as well and and and I go I say this at the beginning any time I'm talking anywhere because if this isn't understood you and I could say the most brilliant things today yep and walk away with minimal value and that would be a shame so for me this is an important point I'm very much of the mindset that rules an able one to follow mm-hmm and knowledge enables one to lead you do and I are going to be talking about some things and I'm we're gonna be answering questions and such which I'm pump to do but the thing is is the worst thing that can happen is that people would be listening this hearing it and taking it in as oh that's something I've got to follow that's something that's a thing that I must do I'm and sort of have it as part of a regimen I'd rounded them have this in the context no these are to give you the necessary insight orientation so that you can now have judgment you know it's kind of like the ability of someone who would actually think on their feet you know right kind of like that that's that ability to be agile and and to be able to shift and know those who are only regimented who only have rules they're gonna it's like if something new and unusual comes into play they're like uh uh they're their head freezes I don't know which way to go where has a post who's like okay that's what happened there ba-ba-ba-ba-bom that ball dropped with this event attitude it it now they can think so I just want to frame it so the thing about this is is knowledge so yes there are certain there are certain points where the guard says one of the things that I go over in terms of the art of differentiation is is that it's the thing that I that I do at the beginning of any project I'll do what I call a competitive study many do that not everybody knows exactly why they do the competitive study I don't do it just because it's like I want to see whatever else is doing so I can like put my own twist on or something like that I want to see what is the noise level what I discover and have discovered over the course of my career is that every industry seems to everyone so many of the majority of the players are doing their own variation on basically the same thing they're kind of like doing a little bit of this a little bit of that great example remember Dyson computer and Dyson vacuum cleaners and members came out yeah like he came out right the vote did the the vacuum cleaner industry was stagnant for at 50 60 70 years they were all doing variations on the the bag the suction thing and they were all just changing colors and doing nothing different now he used design not only in terms of the function and having his little his little cyclonic technology or whatever that's called yeah yeah and so so to have two besides the technology inside he also used you actually had the clear the translucent casing so you saw the stuff being suctioned up you also he also used colors he chose colors that nobody ever did but I remember when it came out it was like within a matter of weeks all of a sudden the entire industry of vacuum cleaners everyone was everyone else was yesterday's vacuum cleaner it was yet it was the history of vacuum cleaner right but this is the future here and he used art design aesthetics he's going yeah and they had a clever way to yeah they had a really clever way to market the product and talk about you know you never need another like bag again because and it never loses suction because of the way it's designed whether it's true and I don't know but you're right yeah when they came out basically he fossilized every other vacuum cleaner company and you you saw in a matter of months sometimes years other manufacturers the leading manufacturers price out a blending time copy a design copy the idea and he's been able to innovate because now he makes hand dryers he makes heating units cooling units basically when you invent and come up with his this turbine or whatever he's created he's like what cat what else can we use this for so I I want to recap here a little bit so rules are good guidelines are good but that's what they're meant to be just to help you know how to play the game and then you have to play it and sometimes in unconventional ways and when there's an opportunity to really disrupt or come up with something new then you go for and you kind of you say screw the guidelines I'm gonna play outside the I'm a color outside the lines right now is that right yep okay actually now before I get into my next question with you I can see some chatter on YouTube right now there's some confusion and I realized I didn't do such a great job so what you want to do you guys is get on to Twitter take a picture of yourself holding a mug doing something wild changing the patterns of your day thinking outside the box if you will and use the hashtag David Breyer live and David today before the show is over well he'll figure out when to do it when when there's a moment in the show he'll look up on Twitter and he'll just say you are the winner and you know you'll know so it has to happen during the live feed you guys because we have a international audience so people are like what do you mean today I mean like before the show is over before this live is over and it's gonna be over probably about sixty minutes or so the other thing is we're gonna give away the twenty to twenty-two rules or the brand guidelines and we're only gonna give that in the chat for a period of 24 hours during the livestream so when the live stream is over that link will disappear and that's that so towards the end of the show we're gonna put that link in and then you can download it via my Dropbox link and then do with it as you will okay and Chris we also have some awesome entries we have one guy that posted the mug and he's thinking outside of the box from inside a cubicle so these clever guys on the Internet we also have Jason Kingman in the YouTube chat who said that he actually worked at Dyson in the design department during this whole ow he says a great experience so excellent that's really cool our audience is really cool so the other thing I want to talk about it a little bit is there are students going on with my audio piece here we have students who watch their our Channel and they want to learn something about braining so you've you made a good decision today but to nyan live how many people are on the live chat how many people are tuning in live today on YouTube and you got that number for me I do not okay 350 right now 350 okay the numbers grown by a hundred since we started so let's see let's see if we can't oh my gosh twelve hundred guys so we're far from our goal so let's just keep going let's let's give them more value so I'm gonna ask another question from a student perspective what is what do you wish they would teach students in school about branding like let's just pick one or two things ouu I'm asking I would love to yeah far away sir good all right so basically that branding is about is about serving the client helping the clients dream become manifest in the world it's not it is and I understand it I understand it because I mean just as an example I mean you're just gonna give you a little reference point did you see that see that painting there yeah I did that one not well I would did that when I was sixteen years old I was I was painting fine pet find our paintings when I was a teenager mm-hmm the thing is is I came from an art background I came I was an art I was an illustrator first then a designer and then I started to embrace and I was curious why why did certain types of design just completely envelop me and blow my mind why would I love walking into midtown Manhattan and seeing all the scalped posters for the Broadway shows and go oh and just stand there in awe and the thing is is they were knowingly or not in or not those designers were successfully taking me on a journey taking me on a story a great brand will take the viewer on a story it isn't just a matter of oh I want something for my own personal self-expression now the thing is now I don't and I don't see those as as conflicting but I see you need to marry those things so that they align it's like how do i how do i express that because we're all in the storytelling business now some of us are gonna use design a little more something we can use typography a little more some of us can use art direction a little more some of us is gonna use motion a little more so remember our gonna use the power of language and how it weaves and takes somebody on a journey and so to me what I wish that they taught students in school is first of all understand that branding you are taking something and you're exporting something into the world that's either gonna live or die by the job that you do okay it's gonna live or die by that now you can give it your all and do a really good job but you've got to be attentive you've got to look at what are the obstacles for others discovering that and the obstacles that's where that's where branding and the brilliance of branding comes into play and this is what I find that is not taught enough in school it's like what are the obstacles to your solution actually taking off and becoming alive and the obstacles are things like cliches I go about over that in the book because these are things that you and I have seen too much of it's it's like we've been there we've done that it's not new and fresh because if you and I as craftspeople as designers as creators if we are meeting expectation like you know what they need a logo okay great so you can design a logo but if you just do a design look and you don't look around and see well what else is out there what are the other logos looking like you're not doing your job fully so you're too insulated so wit if you're in school as a student break through the walls of insulation break through the idea that you are just a practitioner you are very potentially a creator of a universe and that universe is your clients world that you are breathing life into mmm okay I have a lot of things to follow up with you on and those of you guys that are following this conversation if you ask a question that's relevant to what we're talking about right now I'm sure Ben will bring it up a lot of you guys are asking some crazy questions but you're nor those for right now when we do open Q&A then you guys can ask those questions so you say we're on the business of storytelling you want to take the viewer the audience on a journey so here's the thing that I've seen having taught designed for 15 years everybody thinks we're taking them on a journey everybody already thinks they are a storyteller but somewhere along the way of the intention and the message and it being transmitted to the audience its loss so people assume okay so I've designed this and I tell my story about how I came up with this cover and all these designs and they present that but as soon as that work is left to stand there on itself on its own that story is no longer being transmitted so you have to be able to connect the intent your story and what purse somebody else receives so the transmission and the reception of the message and the story has to be somewhat one-to-one and I think your quote one of your six quotes that I totally butchered when I read it is like if you have some some brand some differentiators but if you if you like you bury it you want somebody trying to figure it out then you're gonna totally lose them right so if you have this intent but somebody has to work too hard to figure it out or it's impossible figure it's like the best kept secret your story that is then it's not going to work anything else you want to add to that yeah please it's a very interesting little it's a it's a subtlety probably took me about 30 plus years to realize this but it's this the best designs the best brands the best solutions they have oh they have future built in - and this is not two-stroke you I see you got the they have future built into the solution that they've created as opposed to a similar like let's take our let me let me give you a very tangible if if one if you took two logo designers mm-hmm and like a really good logo designer I mean technically good skills they understand typography they understand shape form etc good and a none comparable one now what would be the difference if we were to see that one was really adding a hell of a lot more value than the other well the thing is is this first one here this first one let's figure that this guy is doing just what he's doing he's designing a great logo and that's it now you take the other guy who's designing something of comparable technical expertise but what he's done is he's actually looked at okay how does this need to be utilized in the different media that it will perform in how how is it going to be utilized if it needs to communicate in different countries in different cultures packaging large small in other words they've actually built in a lot of future opportunities into the conceiving of that that logo will be much much much more valuable than this one that was just technically done well I see I like that so so the amount of future incorporated into solutions that's why you looked at diet you know you'll look at the anyway I mean you've you've probably run across the story I loved when when Steve Jobs when they were coming up with the iPad and they did the first iPad like when they were done with that even before they released it they were saying good he's like okay show me iPad 2 iPad 3 iPad 4 he already was already how do we open make obsolete what we've just renovated mm-hmm mm-hmm okay so I like that you put in some objective ways to measure logos so if we're looking at two two marks that are objectively speaking both proficient technically sound using two solid design principles the one that's more valuable and the one that should win is the one that it's considering or taking into consideration consideration usage the audience how it translates how it's going to scale so those are very important things good yes I like that you cleared that up okay that's a question from the audience do it actually a couple people have been asking this so in order to have a successful career in branding do you have to have a background in graphic design I thought I would have to be in a visual designer well I have a few different ideas about that I mean one is you have to be a great communicator now I've seen some designers who frankly their works bores the hell out of me it's very very it's it's very bland it's not very exciting visually but what they've done is and they've so they've relied more on the use of language and and such like that but to me I think the most powerful is one who has at least the good skills to to at least have judgment they may not be able to craft it but but this is this is where you bring out is where you bring out the the one part of me that see I remember when computers first came into the industry because when I started the industry there were no computers there was no internet there was no there was no social media there was no email you didn't have all that crap to distract you you didn't have a freaking smartphone to check first thing when you woke up and for last thing when you went to bed and we drew we had drawing tables and we drew and someone couldn't show up it was kind of like I sometimes will say to people I say here's a pencil draw something for me and like like a show Italian computer I said no no no no the the pencil that the pencil was the original computer as far as I'm concerned it's not doing anything for more for you and a computer isn't doing anything more for you bottom line is this you're the one bringing the talent to the game you know the microphone didn't make the Beatles sound good the Beatles made the microphone sound good mm-hmm like that okay so what's the answer is that our question what was the question again [Laughter] okay do you need a background in visual design to be to have a successful career in branding it's kind of a yes or no I would say I would say it's certainly helpful and it depends it depends on your role in branding you can be a brand strategist without that skill you can be a brand planner you can be you can all probably even there are creative directors who don't have visual visual skill sets but they know what looks good they have the judgment factor so you don't have to be the practitioner so you can be involved from that standpoint but if you're gonna be in the trenches and actually creating it then you better freaking know how to design your okay I'm gonna pull a brand intervention right now I'm gonna answer that question the answer is yes oh no I'm sorry the answer is no I was so focused on the delivery of that line that I messed it up do you need to be a visual designer answer's no you do not okay let's move on I have this page from your book and before we get into this question if people want to buy this book brand intervention let me hold up the book again if you guys want to buy the hardcover book please use our amazon link it's inside its let me see how many pages it's over 200 pages illustration big words look at this guy's we're talking about just key ideas ideas here not a lot of fluff in the book itself so then you'll drop the link on how to buy the book yep dropping it now drop it like it's hot okay here we go Oh only buy the hardcover trust me the production values in the hardcover are better than the paperback I have both I will attest that the hardcover is a different playing field the the paperback is not nearly as good it's worth the hard cover okay all right guys I'm sorry David here's the next one that I would like for you to explain this what is the sixty-six percent rule can you explain that I love this okay it's very simple most brands most brands and companies what will happen is they're they're always going to be involved in two prime notable activities which is pre-sales branding right in other words they're gonna promote it and they're gonna get talked about and they get some PR to they'll do a list a pre-sale and then there's during the sale now that during the sale could be when someone is visiting your website it's your clients website or it could be when they're in the salon that they're going to or could be and when they're in the store whatever but that's like during the sales branding and usually those two things conclude with the transaction or the cousin or the completion okay your hair has been cut or your though you've been beautified or whatever the hell you've had done to yourself or you're driving away with the car and that's it but the transaction right there that is actually the beginning of your relationship that is not the end of the relationship that and so those are only two of what are actually three phases of branding so we have pre-sales we have during the sales and then we actually have post sales branding and I realize this from one of my clients where we did something after the fact and and I and what happened was it was so unexpected it's when you and I as consumers don't engage we're not expecting that additional thing and it happened when my wife and I were shopping we were shopping and we went to a coach store to coach leather bags and it was kind of like looking around the different bags and I was playing I was playing my my responsible role I was being sort of appropriately oblivious it at least the parents and noticing what she keeps circling around on and we walked out not having purchased anything and then I have I sneak back oh I forgot something I get it and I get the bag and we get home and I watch her undo the bag so there's the there's the Coach bag then there's the tissue paper we all expect the tissue paper so she undoes a tissue paper then there's the bag itself but she's like oh you got a bag I was looking at and I'm like yes I got the begging Luna and so and then she opens up and inside it's about a four by five little sepia toned booklet probably 70% visuals just pictures of the craft of you know actually making new leather and just some words and it probably took a less than three minutes to read that little booklet but by the time that she was done first of all so wasn't expected to it wasn't necessary but three it elevated this bag that was now a purchase from being a purchase into now she just inherited this legacy of this craft that had been handed down over the ages and I saw the power of that it probably cost them 30 cents but it transformed it was unexpected and transformed and it enlightened and it informed that this is what we're offering and what we're helping our clients with what they're making is part of the part of the package you know it's like it's me yeah this mug is cool but it's the fact that this mug allows me to enjoy my coffee is what really makes it cool right and so I learned that that post sales branding face I really noticed the shift that had occurred and that was the thing so I realized you literally most companies are doing just 2/3 of them and that's the 66 percent rule if you want to do that you're gonna be on the same playing field as everybody else but if you want to elevate your game whether you're a practicing design professional or whether you are a student a husband a wife of an incredible company it doesn't matter you can apply this to life do that extra what is unexpected at the back end and you'll that actually develop a relationship and not just the transaction I love that and actually what you did with your wife was delivering some of that wow factor because you pretended to be captain oblivious knowing very well if you had that opportunity to strike like a Cobra you'd come and you're gonna just strike like that right and so your wife goes home was like what is this yep and and I'm honey I just open it up let's see what happens then she said oh my god not only did you buy it for her you got the right one and you were paying attention and I know having been married for quite some time myself my wife really appreciates when I'm paying attention when she thinks I'm not when you get the details right and so in sharing this experience I want to break it down for our audience and I notice a lot of times when I travel overseas I may be a little bias on this and you guys let me have it in the comments below if this is the case but when I travel abroad in developing countries they only focus on the transaction it's just a bizarre things get exchanged and you give me money I give you product and you know there's no customer service even during this that looks rough and I sit back and I'm like why do certain countries have brands that dominate the world that they translate the experience and they become global brands and they don't just remain in the local market because they've been able to differentiate themselves they've been able to tell their story and I love your coach example because the little booklet told the story about how the bag was birth like meet the parents this is the father just the mother this is how many hours it took to craft this because otherwise it's just another container to hold your junk and so in doing so they took a commodity item a bag that could be bought for in orders of magnitude for a dollar ten dollars a hundred a thousand ten thousand a hundred thousand dollars and they were able to position them somewhere in there and so it makes you cherish the bag a little bit more and that a little unexpected touch so here's another spread from your book I just want to give our audience a preview into what the book looks like and how it's designed and written now what typefaces are you using here by the way Francois one it's definitely it's someone it's a it's a variation on Franklin Gothic obviously hmm okay excellent so can you give us another example of how some of these brands like harley-davidson Nike you already talked about coach or Airbnb went from selling the customer to wowing the customer I'd love to hear another example since the book is very tight and the way it's written there aren't a gazillion example so I'd like to pull another one from you if I can totally totally determine as far as opposed to post sales yeah yeah like how another cup of big company it's not a cup it's not a company well I mean I'm trying to think if there's one that we all know well actually well I'll give you I'll give you an interesting one Tommy Bahama okay Tommy right mm-hmm shirts they they their attention to details so badass and then when you look at their labels their labels are embroidered and freaking little works of art they don't have to do that but they just go that extra little so like so after you've gotten at home and you're kind of like oh I'm digging this pattern man this is really cool I'm feeling a little bit make my shirts right most likely sure Travel clothing yeah it's it's the it's a leisure it's the leisure travel clothing but you know they always get the details right I mean they're crossovers on the shirts are it's all they're always perfect but on the I always remember seeing on the inside labels on the back they would be embroidered and like studying works for I would study them for minutes mm-hmm and they didn't have to do that they made that additional experience for me that much better and that's just a little example but I'll tell I'll tell you one I'll tell you one that I think everyone can appreciate because they've probably seen something like this a client of mine they were in the party favor industry right mm-hmm they end up they I fight I do a whole rebrand of them and the and sales are there they're crushing it they're sending out hundreds of packages every day they're starting to fill up one two UPS trucks every day and the starter self so I said guys here's what I need you to now do I said to add to to build your relationships I said I want you to and a handwritten thank you because they their client base was 100% female and they were dealing with they were dealing with bridal showers baby showers bachelorette parties etc all personalized and very cool and very fun so the people got to actually know them so I said what I want to do is I want you actually write and we designed this awesome card fold-over card die-cut the whole deal I want you to hand write a note to them pick how many every minute you can handle so ended up being repeat down at around about 75 a day before people got a writers cramp people with good handwriting and I said I want you to and first they said oh you mean like send him a thank-you email I said you send a thank-you email I'll break your fingers hmm I said everyone does email I want you actually to send something in the post as a thank-you after the fact when they don't expect it about one week later how was your party how was your this how was your that the response they got was overwhelming people were blown away one that they took the time to do it to that it was actually put in the mail with a stamp and that and it was that it was handwritten the whole deal they were shocked but that's just a little small example because sometimes people think I when they read something like this they think they've got to do something wild and heroic and you know it could be in the details yeah hmm okay okay well I I'd like to Thompson yeah I like to prompt people that are watching us on YouTube on Facebook because we're streaming both there to share a story that some somebody some brands and a service a product that you had experience with where they wowed you and and maybe we can do a collection of stories after the show so go and comment below share story with us so we can read and and I'm inspired by your story and in terms of the coach thing and I want to share a story something that I'm now recalling in my mind in terms of like how the person went above and beyond did something unexpected and created an experience for me this is really getting into experience design so maybe branding is another way of looking at experience design now a while back I ordered a book from Eli Altman called don't call it that so I just wanted to get the book and then I get this really interesting package and it's got interesting printed like bright orange tape around it with different typefaces I opened up a book comes out a poster or a handwritten note stickers all kinds of stuff starts falling out of this package I was thinking did Eli send this to me himself because I know he's gonna be on the show or does everybody get this and it made me wonder like I felt special I felt unique I felt different and that he valued the relationship of me deciding to part with hard-earned cash to buy his book and somebody actually did write handwritten notes and I asked him about later when he was on the show and he's like somebody does that for us somebody is sitting there writing he's got a great partner who ships out all this kind of stuff with bookmarks and when you get more than what you pay for or what you feel like you paid for and then that experience deepens and it's awesome so I'd love to hear your stories you guys comment below share them with us because I'd love to read them alright here we go before we end but I want more questions yes so you and I had spoken whenever it was some there's some months ago we decided we do the show we talked about some logistics and different things and and we this is going also about you know that's having some design books so I sent you some sign books but did I just send you books you're not what did I open beyond well I'll tell the story here well first David ordered some books from his publisher and they sent him the soft bound books he's like that is not gonna just not accept send me the hardcover books so it took a little longer so you got the hard cut so he's doing quality control before I even saw anything and then he sends me it in a box with hand lettering custom hand lettering on the box that looked like it took time so I think in in the story and picking up what we're talking about here is if you show effort that matters to people so you spend the time to sit there with a sharpie and to to design something as a future I still have the box I haven't thrown the box away and all the other boxes have wound up in their trash already so I haven't I'm still like I just want to look at it a little bit more before I let this this thing go right yeah that's the connection that we're talking about yeah excellent okay I've been before I do the next question open up the audience now we will accept any question on branding or brand intervention or if you have a question about davidís prices or your own struggles or what around this go and ask us on Facebook and on YouTube and we'll we'll send it on up to David so we also have some stories here rolling in oh nice yeah so somebody ordered a vinyl for their collection and they received a sticker with their name and company name on it with the vinyl supporter saw a sign right on top of that so it's kind of a custom sticker inside the actual package that is very cool that's from we are CG faux says a place that he used to buy hookah products from would would draw on the actual box and so these individual drawings that came with the packaging became a social media of sensation which is pretty neat very cool so do you have any questions Ben how many people are tuning in live now how does our number gone up and yeah we're almost at 500 weeds so we're growing here yeah so we started at 250 we're at we're double now yep so we have a bunch of everybody should everybody should tell their teams and their colleagues and their friends and allies and their ex-wives and ex-husbands jump on the freakin oh man come on come on we want we want to break 1200 all right so we have a bunch of questions rolling in about storytelling let's do it people want to know what they can do to improve their storytelling David they seem to be really focused on how it looks and they want to bring in that second part that brand story so what is what are some things that they can do to improve that well I'll say from my own experience I had started out for those that know a little bit of my earlier history as a designer I I was very much inspired by her blue ballon now herb was besides me incredible logo designer he was also an amazing editorial designer he was the designer of upper and lower case which was the the publication for international typeface corporation this is again this is all pre-computer everybody so this is before there's my fonts and digital stuff and the better than that so I really much got to appreciate language typography message and meaning as really almost inseparable so to me want us to learn to really love and appreciate what towards me that's a lot it's a enormous part of it if you don't have some appreciation of what words can do it's it's literally it's kind of like it's like if a motion graphics designer is trying to talk to a print designer or vice versa and neither one of the nine of one understands the others sphere that they influenced they won't be able to appreciate an inter interface with it so the language the use of words what they mean how they give and take because not everything is an instrumental see to me visuals I think I thought a lot of times I think in me I use medical not medical of musical metaphors and food metaphors in this particular case is kind of like to me the the art is the music this story the words are the lyrics and so not everything's going to be an instrumental and not everything's gonna be an acapella performance you know and it's great when those things come together and they just take you someplace that to me is the thing of that I also I also find find things that excite you I would say very very simply find what stories do you read what bloggers do you read that you like I really dig that and then and if you really dig it not just because it's kind of like about some kind of thing you're geeking out about but you like it took you somewhere it did something for you it moved you look at that and I would start collecting those things that's when I started I would literally collect and create a swipe file of wow this was an amazing adverse event this blew my mind I didn't see it coming that was brilliant and I keep it and same thing I would just do for book covers different things and that's what I would start to do I like that advice what you're saying is fine other stories that resonate with you whether they're in written form a package or a story like coach and study what they did and look at how they impact you and to break down the model the framework and we can all be attracted to different kinds of stories and experiences that's what makes the world so unique and diverse and you can start to figure that out so you you'll quickly realize it wasn't the logo and I know there's a lot of people who make logos in our audience that's why they're asking that question it's most often not just the way it looks it goes way beyond that so you're talking about words from the precision of words I just want to pull out something from rule number three I believe from the 33 steps and I love this quote from Mark Twain that you you put included in the book it says the difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter tis the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning so choosing the right words and putting them together than the right sequence matter so I think that's a great bridge to bring up another page from the book another spread if you will so I want to read this out so it's on on storytelling so here we go brands are in the storytelling business this is what you write we are here to tell a story that keeps you and me one on the edge of our collective seats or two has this reaching for the tissues to wipe away the tears in other words as brands we must step back and one take a look at the big picture to define who our hero is three establish who is the villain that we oppose and four make an impact ignore the sequence and you will become the villain can you expand on this day but I love the way this is written again not a lot of words on here so there's a lot for us to kind of figure out so hopefully the gaps please I know III couldn't help but smile when you're reading exiled like oh man that's really that's a really good all right that was me where's my life so okay I mean the basic the basic thing is that there's so much I could say here but it's it's basically this the great brands oh and you know I'll tell you actually the inspiration behind the epiphany the inspiration when I was did you read Steve Jobs of the authorized biography I did not okay the authorized biography it was it was no no it was a No wasn't the best thing I ever read on Steve Jobs but I was very curious because I no question had my I admire the genius of Steve Jobs no question but I remember when he came back to Apple and Apple would had based that apples on the verge of bankruptcy where they were just there on the road they they were on the ropes and they were and they had like a gazillion excuse and it was it was just they they had lost focus and I remember he was looking at how do we we still have a legion of fans how do we reconnect with them mm-hmm and I remember I remember that this analysis that he looked at he says you know when you want to know someone fast ask them who their heroes are and that inspired to think different campaign oh that was always interesting to me so it's like if I want it so I want to know someone really fast who do you admire who is you who do you aspire to be who are your heroes mm-hmm I'll know only what their values are right uh-huh I found that for agency so I was looking at well that's interesting and as I started to look at that further I realized the brands that I work on in the brands that I admire they are equally for something as they are equally opposed to something mm-hmm so obviously obviously you know you take a look at something like Nike and go okay just do it it was like they were Pro get off your ass and do something they were against excuses right right mm-hmm very simple it doesn't have to be complex it doesn't it be long-winded it could just be like boom boom it's like you know what weren't the change we're not into stagnancy we're into stuff that blows your mind rather than stuff that merely meets your expectations I mean you give dichotomies life is made up of dichotomies and so that's the thing that's the thing here it's like you know what if I fail to and because the best brands will tell you the complete story and it could be very simple right you know it's like it's I mean you take you take Harley Davidson you go okay it's like freedom of the open road I mean that's what they're for and what they're what they're against is is like is not being true to yourself you know because they consider that to be true to yourself they are a weekend warrior or whatever mm-hmm you know so to me it's it's those two things the member that we own everything of a story of a brand all sides of it the better we are at telling that story and really doing it well mm-hmm okay so I was while you were talking here and something was racing through my mind I had to find it in the book itself so on page 24 and just to dive back into this a little bit about how too many people are focused on the transactional sales model yeah right where they just consider the the goal as the sale rather than the customer relationship and so we talked a lot about the business of design and so many people in our audience are always asking like how do I sell this how do I sell this it really it really crystallized it for me the way you talk about and that you have to provide value and how you exceed not just meet but exceed expectations merely meeting it is not good enough right what we want to do is exceeding expect there's a death sentence mm-hmm I think you have a quote on that somewhere don't you I think so and if I if I haven't I'm just I am going to do it right as Newser done so the the question I have for you is you talk about to consider the full branding cycle and it's the difference between having a business and having a brand and you talk about companies like Apple and Nordstrom again can you fill in some gaps here and talk about how you do this from the creative point of view so I must solopreneur I'm a small design firm I have three to five people and I make visual things for a living and I'm drinking the kool-aid now I'm really bought into this whole program of creating value and moving beyond just design I get your thing about words matter telling stories and to surprise us what are some practical things either from what other companies are doing are things that I can do give me some tactical steps that I can take okay and this is for this for a small design shop yeah let's say under five people one to five people good so all right so here's here's a one barometer that I use that I always find helpful I would I would literally take a piece of paper and I would say what are the things that are expected of us like just the things that like like you know where we show up and they expect well we that we're going to be professional we're gonna be competent we're going to be technical technically proficient we're going to be up to date on stuff we're going to be knowledgeable enough about their field to really be able to have good judgement and we're gonna be etcetera etc those are like the what are the things that are expected of us okay well now what are the things that may not be expected but will add value and amplify two times four times five times ten times those things on the on the other side so for example okay like I'll give you a very simple example it's probably like a very obviously stupid one but it's it'll make the point so we could say and the expected is be able to design a logo good now on the other side it may be okay designing the system that makes sure that that logo works in social media applications online in print in large format in small format with slogans without slogans in monochromatic treatments in full color treatments that would be an example of like you don't need to do all of those maybe you do a percentage of those but that's just an example of the arrange it's like that's taking the usefulness and the value of the expected and now you're just amplified it a lot now if you now for example you snort let's say storytelling wasn't part of your what's expected of us now if you were to say you know what we really need to be able to help them define their story and we now can actually help do that that adds value that's the expectation level that's what those those are a couple of examples that's excellent you know what I really like where you were going with this as I'm searching for the next thing but you you said like what is expected of us and so many people so many clients tend to like think that those are virtuous as I think if you even stopped here I would be wonderful if you just use this as your next client interaction use this prompt awesome what is expected of us and write down as many things and just show a lot of excitement like yeah this is great great keep writing that and then just say okay now we're gonna throw that away tell me why we should care because that's what everybody expects you just that's what you have to do just to show up to be in business opening the store on time and closing when you say that's not gonna win you any points however when let's say if it's tax time and you're like H&R Block if you open up earlier and closed later or if you hire an extra and XYZ to expedite the line that's unexpected that's going above and beyond so this is one way to cut through the nonsense right because so many companies gonna come to you if you're talking to the to the owner of a small business all right yeah this is what we do great and you just list it that's just what's expected that's the cost of entry and then ask them okay now we can't say anything else is on the list tell me why I should care yep why your customers should care I should say okay is awesome yeah I have a question so we are CGS what do you do if you have to work with a brand that's already screwed up visually it's just a it's just an absolute mess do you start over or do you try to salvage something from the wreckage so wait so you said your CGS is that an acronym for something yes that's the name it's this question comes from we are CG he just that's their name that's all yeah you could ignore that part all right so so alright my attention got stuck on I didn't know if there was an acronym I was supposed to know oh yeah so what do you do if you have to work on a brand that's already kind of visually screwed up so do you try to salvage something from the wreckage or do you start over I will basically I'm known for my my brutal love of the truth and and basically if I if I see something I'll be the first and say here's the deal this looks like it's only going to look like actually really well-crafted if I actually just like continue to work with this and so I say bottom line is I'm not I'm not going to be happy with it you're not gonna be happy with it and if you only want if you only want an incremental evolutionary phase I may not be the right person to actually help you because I'm here to basically help you create a revolution and actually do do as much as I possibly can to help you achieve something that's on the order of a magnitude of a movement and not just a sort of ooh we feel a little bit less horrible about ourselves today gotcha see you're just like nuke the whole thing let's start over let's let's let's do this the right way yeah well because otherwise what you're doing otherwise to me one is beat one is patronizing patronizing the patronizing doesn't doesn't work I've never found it to work I can't I can't imagine you guys have either I mean I mean I think once I took something and I tried I think I gave it my earnest the trial and it was it was a disaster and painful all at the same time hmm okay a follow-up questions before you do that I forgot I didn't know he was gonna be dropping some language so we forgot to mention there's like a discussion airing warning parental advisory strong language contained in this episode sorry it's retro retro actively make that possible I usually don't go beyond that I usually don't they'll be on the shi t I don't take it to like Aaron trafficking my shows like I had that big warning up front so everybody knew what they're getting into and next time I'll add strong political opinions included alright question from Jose what can he do with a client that doesn't have a nice story I imagine this is a company that's not very friendly or kind of has a negative backstory well if the client doesn't have a good story then there's something fundamentally there's some fundamental problem and that has to be resolved I mean that's you you you one is I want to be real clear one isn't creating a story just to make things sound nice this isn't the poetry class where it's like okay freeform you know dance let's let's all let's also income by out together that's not it's about it's it's about like I just like I'll give you an example I just took a client who they have created it's a husband and wife and they've you create this amazing sauce that's amazing for seafood it's like a kind of sauce that you could use for seafood steak and poultry and veggies and stuff and it's an amazing and it's a it's a set of three one is smoked one is original and one is gluten-free they they had put this under the category of Worchester sauce and I said why the hell you calling it that and and I started to discuss and I said here the problems I see with what you're calling it and then and then I looked at their story the story that they told was really not inspiring but I could tell that there were the proper nuggets and so what I did is I when I showed it to them I think it's the first time that I actually showed a client the entire story rewritten new brand new visual the whole new name of and everything they didn't change one single comma they were blown away but I could see what was there to be told sometimes you're gonna end up with a brand if there is not a great story to be told you either don't have a great story and that's a real problem or you have failed to correctly identify who your audience is like and and that the identification of audience is critical to know it's like this it's like the father and the son who walk into the showroom and the father's taken his son saying hey I'm gonna sign I'm gonna get you to your first car and now they're going and they see this cool red car it's a nice red card to Nenshi level it's not something over like overly like super luxurious but it's nice and so what happens is we go ahead and the father's looking at this and he's kicking the tires and he he's looking at this at the safety rating and he's looking at the miles per gallon now the son looking at the exact same vehicle exact he's looking at this and he's thinking to himself chick magnet so the thing is the thing is wait a second it's the same thing but yeah but it's the audience if they if the automotive the automotive manufacturer didn't know hey hey Dad you want your you want your son to get some you know what I'm saying yeah baby it's like I know father wants to be prematurely a grandfather all of a sudden so that's not gonna communicate to him so you got to know your who your audience is to define your story mmm okay I have some things I want to add to this conversation and and then I want to cut away to my Twitter screen in a second show you how many crazy photos we're getting in right now and maybe while I'm talking about this you can check your Twitter feed and potentially pick out a couple of winners to to give the coffee beans to okay okay all right so I'm gonna take a step back you guys something happens today the Sun comes up and when you see the Sun it's just the Sun comes up and it does that every single day every 24 hours and that's just the way it works and through your lens you decide oh my god it's really bright and sunny today I'm gonna have to wear a hat and put on a lot of sunblock so it's your lens in which you see that in so you judge it as being a negative thing somebody else comes on it's like finally the first day of spring is here - Suns coming out I can't this is amazing couldn't have waited another second for winter to be over so you judge it the same Sun rises being a good thing so through different eyes you see things as good or bad so when you say in that question what do you deal with a client who has a bad brand story I'm not sure that there's such thing as a bad brand story there's just what has happened how you look at it how you presented to the world changes the way people see it so you see as a negative and then you harp on the fact that it's negative and I want to give you an example here I remember reading a case study a while back on the agency who did the tourism campaign for Montana so what they did was they asked a lot of people what do you think about Montana like there's nothing to do there's nothing here there's nothing here and this is what they kept hearing these were all complaints and the agencies - all their credit quickly realized something people already assumed there's nothing here and so then they made what would be considered a negative thing into an attribute that they could be a proud of so they launched Montana and and the campaign line was there's nothing here and they show like wide open spaces of mountains and trees and rivers and things that you outdoor enthusiasts would love to do so I'm not sure that I would accept the judgment that they have a bad brand story just like there are not Brad bad assignments or bad clients they're just not creative people who can't anything with that so they took a negative and they made it positive and I love that because when you want to escape when you want to get away from the city and decompress and reconnect with nature you want to go to a place that there's nothing here and that's awesome all right then we're coming up on the end of our show here so I want to let's go to my screen here for Twitter look at these photographs aren't they awesome they are pretty awesome look at Tony Lopez there look at that guy he's got like yellow promotion in there that gets extra credit for something I'm and he just like that he also sent David a little uh I don't know if it's like a secret hidden message or something but he said he wants that brick of chocolate well we'll figure that out you guys go get a hotel room we'll talk about that later and I love this one coming in from Philippe with his pink pinkie finger out look at this oh my god somebody just made their own future ugh you got a child involved there and screaming away that's from Blaise K my goodness you guys you guys and then do the wide-angle lens super stretchy this is a head of infinity ward this is mr. fantastic here we casted that guy's in a Snuggie straight up straight up rockin the Snuggie oh my God look at these things okay I think you know what's going on here he's out of coffee so he's using hot sauce to stay awake okay this hot sauce and he's pouring it in the future mug so David good job there I think and you're gonna have some stomach issues later all right you guys there's some really good photos in here this is three different mugs and tells us a different story after 5:00 p.m. there's coffee and then there's tea excellent job you guys good job so David what would you like to do the honors and pick I don't how many people you want let's go ahead and announce them should we do that are you ready David yeah or do you need a little more time I do believe I'm ready let me see here but hold on when we got here just look in and there better not be any blind employees giving news right now not not not all these guys see I just got a the disclaimer I got to remind people a disclaimer it's like you gotta you gotta have a us address okay well sort that out you can write the Philippines right that's gonna be a tough one but they're just having fun that's cool right there's no harm in playing yeah like I can't like let me just let me just see here all right let's see so I mean I think I think that Tony I don't know I don't know what could be done Tony about the chocolate brick is that what that is what is that this is this is the you see this is the this is cure number 34 this is the chocolate okay right I've seen that in the book you have a tin of chocolate that you give out Carol see this is the this is the this is the the whole the the chocolate the whole deal that this is actually solid chocolate laser-engraved try to get pieces missing from it pull that up again hold that up again to camera please now flip it upside down you'll rotate it upside down so that the the the small end is on the bottom small n is on the mom wrote 800 see it look like chocolate underwear so I was like oh my god what is going on Jimmy David and Tony you guys have your own special thing take that off line please all right that's a chocolate break all right we'll figure it out at some point we don't need I don't want to take up more valuable time of the show but we will pick somebody I'm encouraged by seeing these crazy photos from from you guys I have at least one more question I have to ask you okay so let me put this up on this rain here we go can you explain the difference between what a company makes versus what the customer buys I love this part in the book I think people would need to hear this yeah no this is this is is a big one it's an enormous one so the thing is is most most I'm saying like 98% of companies entrepreneurs people are they are basically they spend so much time working on the thing that they're creating and that they end up selling then they end up selling the thing and you know what I'm gonna do hold on a second I'm gonna grab I'm gonna grab something because I actually have some great examples okay go ahead so we will fill it up with data then let's do some banter are there any other questions or people saying funny things now yeah yeah I stock chocolate underwear you guys we had some questions about audio guys if you submitted a question that didn't really apply directly to the talk it was ignored sorry for that we're just trying to keep on track Chris you could probably answer this question do you think it's more difficult to learn how to talk or to learn how to create and design how to talk you learn how to talk when you're three years old what do you mean what do you mean I think there's more to that then let's read between the lines if you will what do they mean how to talk I kind of present your work how to communicate okay let's answer this thing and we'll cut back to David I think it's having an effect of communication communication skills yeah are learned and and for me that was a little bit more difficult than to actually learn how to create okay I came more naturally to me than dealing with people all right let's see if I don't contradict myself here is the learning anything new is inherently difficult or it's inherently easy it's your attitude towards learning something so if you were to talk to somebody who's who writes for a living and asked them to design something or do a photo comp they're gonna say that's really difficult I wasn't born at that skill and you're like no no you can learn this so then you go to the visual person and say I want you to learn how to do public speaking and present ideas and communicate complex concepts and then oh that's really difficult I don't think one is hard or easy it's just a thing to do and if we can strip away some that judgment filter out the lens it might make the whole process of learning things easier we accept that we will not be good at something the first time we do it and that nobody is or very few people are and that's just part of the process and the journey is something we should aspire to do so if you're really good at the visual aspects I would encourage you to learn how to speak how to present to learn how to read people in a room and how to be a more empathetic listener I don't think anyone is any harder or easier than the other they're all just things to do that okay Ben yeah okay let's get back to David David what do you want to show us okay so the thing so the basic thing is is as far as the by-by versus self so here's some examples that I have so Janelle number five what they sell is fragrance that's actually what they for what they sell it's a recipe it's a formulation it's that's it it's alcohol with ingredients and they get fragrances that's what are mixed in like flowers and bark and all kinds of stuff right but would people people by is feeling and smelling attractive hmm okay the haagen-dazs I love is from the fur haagen-dazs what they sell is ice cream what people buy is the perfect adult indulgence hey what page number are you on right now you guys know the book are you no no this is this is this is a this is this is a something else okay okay okay I see alright keep going the book so these are these are just some examples but like but Dyson we talked about Dyson so tight what they sell is they do sell a vacuum cleaner but what people actually buy people actually buy the anti vacuum cleaner vacuum cleaner interestingly okay or one of my favorite ones is like Porsche what they sell is basically performance vehicles where people buy is the ultimate status toy in the passing lane the ultimate status toy in the passing lane the passing lane I mean the bottom line is is is this it's like for us to understand what people are buying we're doing a goal what what is it they're hoping to get out of it people don't care if I say to if I say to a woman I say hey I am I have you know this special formulation blah blah blah blah and I talk about all of that stuff that's the stuff I'm selling they're not gonna be as interested in that but if I talk to them and I say and knowing what they want to buy which is hey I do have something it will actually make you appear 10 years younger in a matter of three days that's what she's gonna want to buy if I just say now this bag of rusty nails she didn't care there was rusty nail I say just take that and just run that rut and ring that by your head baby on each side of your head morning night before you go when you get up in the morning and when you go to bed at night she doesn't mind about that because it's not because I'm not selling what I'm not selling the thing people don't care about the thing people didn't care about the this this thing that we hold and try to communication device we can't yeah we didn't care about the metal and and even an even Apple when when Apple came out with the iPod at prior to the iPod lose it before the iPhone before the iPad so the iPod comes out it's an mp3 player there were already three or four other mp3 players that had come to the market but what they all did was they sold what they made which was Oh blah blah blah blah so much memory so much this plays music button or whatever like that but they sold what they made as opposed to what people wanted to buy Apple was smart they came in with a great campaign where the colors all this kind of stuff and then they said it at the end they said thousand songs in your pocket that's what people wanted to buy they didn't care about that thing they were so Apple didn't try and sell the device they sold what people wanted to buy what does that say a thousand songs in your pocket what is this oh because because if you remember from the ad it's like you had the you had the little thing and you literally saw someone shoving it into their back pocket you saw the device and there was a thousand songs in your pocket so I think if I'm trying to read here the situation that prior to that I had those devices like Rovio or one of those things it was a giant it looked like a CD player and it didn't function that well and it can tell your music and it's the same way that Dell markets versus the way Apple markets Dells gonna be I'm competing for you on price speed of delivery and all the specs the mother or the the processor the RAM and and they're always comparing megahertz and I think honestly the reason why Apple went this direction because they couldn't win that game so this is one of those things and this is a branding case study for you guys to think about because it was always the megahertz Wars right the Intel chips were faster than the Motorola chips and people were too obsessed over the number and they had to find a creative way around this and this is where somebody had asked early about a bad brand story so if you had focused like we'll never win that war of being faster or releasing products with higher gigahertz counts we need to do something else so Steve Jobs cheats changed the games like we're not gonna talk about that we're gonna talk about what we can win and the think different campaign the thousand songs in your pocket but I think thinking back now when it says a thousand songs in your pocket that speaks to people who really love music exactly and then that which goes back to knowing who your audience is which we talked about earlier right so this reminds me of something that that you guys have made me you might have heard me say before simon Sinek says this in his in his wonderful lecture start with why that people don't buy what you do people buy why you do it people trust other people who believe what they believe so this is about communicating values and belief system so this is much deeper than the machinery the rubber the metal to steel so this war grants happened so feeling that you want to fulfill this emotional want and the better you can communicate articulate that to other people the better off you are so in your example of the cream making you look younger or whatever it is you're really packaging and selling self-esteem or somebody who's trying to relive their life as a younger person so you're tapping into the desire you know the Fountain of Youth thing yeah okay great thank you very much for clearing that up you brought some great examples to talk about I think we're sort of at the end of our show here if we can so what we want to do now is for all our life whoever's made it through the whole show and we're gonna reward them yes and we're gonna change the way we reward the link we're having some technical issues with it as well we're gonna switch that around and send that over email if that's okay with you guys we can send it to our newsletter but I only want to reward people watching us live right now Ben okay have you been able to download the file and know that my link was bad yep darn it okay well I think David wanted to say something so while David is talking I will fix this link and we'll figure this thing out because I'm gonna give you something yeah definitely shoot me an email mm-hmm we're just gonna say because the bottom line is I mean we've covered a lot of things that I'm sure that we've probably just touched the tip of the iceberg so I mean if there's any like burning burning great questions or things that you've observed Ben or anything that you've seen the on the since you've been watching the chat then the whole deal if there's anything I would love to I always like to really make sure that people really get incredible value and and and you know that really really walk away blown away my goal is I'm not interested in then just going that was a really nice hour-and-a-half I want to be like that was freaking the most amazing hour and a half of my year cool awesome I do have a really good question for you so Jay asks so he's niched his clients so he's specializing in an industry and what he's running into is it's difficult to differentiate the brands that he's actually creating for his clients so how can he work inside of an industry and still differentiate the brands that he's creating can you give me a little more of an example like like what's doing specifically let's say let's say he's in the automotive industry and he's specializing in building brands for cars how can he differentiate the brands that he builds if he's in that vertical what are some strategies for him okay well the bottom line is is it's very simple he has to understand the audience there's no way in hell no way that every one of those of those buyers those customers of those particular brands are the same as each other that's just that's just statistically impossible right in other words they're either going to be of a different socioeconomic caliber or they might be aesthetically there might be a certain functionality to the cars so in other words yes the look deeper into who is the audience that that particular manufacturer best serves what are they Allegiant to and if they're Allegiant to the brand what about that brand what are the values that that brand represents because because you can't the greatest criminal to branding is the lack of differentiation so it would be it's literally like saying well all cars are the same we know that in that suite that's like saying oh you go is the same as an Aston Martin they are both cars whatever I'd be different you got to look at and obviously the person who bought the you go is going to be very very different audience than the PERT buys the Aston Martin so the thing is it's literally not look that right now that he hasn't looked far enough into the audience's values the audience's what it what are the things that are important to them you know is it is it you know is it the RAI it is that the feel is it the is it the comfort is it looking amazing is it is it appearing like the like you know I don't know the most amazing person on the red carpet what's the what's the goal what's the objective looking young again looking old again looking you know independent what's it you know what are the things that go along with it that's what I go with it oh we're ready and the code words now we are ready I messed up a user error once again blame me let me shoot myself okay all right then what win to you is winner drop the link in the chat window on YouTube right now I'm gonna drop it in there and that's gonna be up for only 24 hours guys that's just for you guys who made it through the entire broadcast Sierra stick sticking with us live just fine Wednesday morning and you guys can download it now the link is dropped it is rather link and it will be changed or deleted quite soon so grab it have it and I want to thank David but before we go before we go it's time for rapid-fire questions David are you ready I am ready we're gonna so here we go I'm going to throw my questions all right David here we go just focus on David I'm gonna read the question I mean I'm gonna give you a word is free association and you just tell me whatever comes your mind let's keep it super short all right you ready favorite band The Beatles okay that's not it here we go okay okay wait wait wait a second since you took so long I'm gonna I'm gonna make my answer longer okay okay set on fire Chucky yeah next time just do me a favor hit the mute button on your design okay favorite City New York City okay that was expected who is your hero yeah you know it sounds a little cliche but first one mine is as Steve Jobs I love what Steve did do you have to you said the first one is what do you know though okay Josie okay excellent okay I regret oh I had when I was early in my career literally just a couple years into my career I had created a magazine a large magazine called graphic relief it was a it was a collaborative thing ibi as an independent I just went and I went to printers this typographers this that the other illustrators photographers and I created for issues of these and I had gotten an offer from I don't think I'm Americans Showcase is out anymore but American showcase was the premier float photography and illustration showcase booklet book they used to come out with multiple books throughout the year and they offered me they offered me an investment and I I quote unquote knew better I was like no it's not enough and I turned it down okay I'm gonna give you a ding for that boom last one last one a guilty indulgence dark chocolate with tawny shaped in like another way ok guys before we say goodbye to David here's information and how you can get in touch with him I pulled the logo off the internet but you guys can go to rising above the noise calm to find more about Emma he's a prolific writer there's a bunch of blog posts all kinds of information useful tools and tips for you in the branding space if you need help he's a prolific writer and you could find them on Twitter at least at David Brier where else can I find you are you on Instagram - oh yeah you can find me on Instagram you'll find me an Instagram rising but ya know David Brier and Instagram mm-hmm and also and also YouTube bigger find me on youtube eyes right I am a that I started on one minute Wednesdays if you want a little 60 second jolts every week every week BAM so are you saying you're a minute man Oh Oh all right all right he hadn't think about that you guys see it's good to stop yes all I'll say all I'll say is I know that I know one definition of Minuteman that I'm going to it yes okay so you agree to that one okay guys before we say goodbye I just want to give David Brier a big round of applause guys thank you so much for being on the show oh yeah thank you so much it was a lot for us to kind of plan and get this all set up and here we are thank you for coming to show I think you gave me a lot of insight and things that are I'm still thinking and processing us about processing about right now that it's gonna impact the way we design brands thank you so much for that you guys we're gonna get out of here thank you very much I want to remind everybody that's tuning in that you are not defined by your past the future is what you make it see you guys next time [Music]

Channel: The Futur

Views: 43,944

Rating: 4.9165277 out of 5

Keywords: brand, branding, david brier, how to, learn, cliche, the futur, livestream, live, brand intervention, author, entrepreneur, disrupt, innovation, Daymond John, Shark Tank, Shark, Book, expert

Id: vfFNdFMZhvc

Length: 91min 10sec (5470 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 25 2018