🔴 How To Become A Brand Strategist

it's that kind of Friday you guys everything is getting screwed up so first of all happy Friday to you once again just take two on this thing you know when things can go wrong everything goes wrong and I appreciate your patience for hanging in there with us and to do this all again I'm gonna try to bring the same fire the same energy you definitely want to stay tuned for what we're gonna do today because we're gonna talk about strategy and how do you go from being a designer to a brand strategist we've heard Melinda talk about it my next guest is known for it he's written books on it I'm gonna get into it kind of deep today what is brand strategy anyways and who is and isn't right for brand strategy because it's not for everybody well on today's episode we're going to talk about how to become a brand strategist with my guests and our guest on today's show he's brand strategist he's a founder and principal Athenian he's written articles for Forbes Inc published in The Washington Post national entrepreneur and Huffington Post he's a speaker he's a global 100 mentor his latest book bigger than this we're gonna talk about this because we're gonna give away some would cut some copies of this book to you guys what we want you to do and I'm preparing you for it right now is to share something that you learned from today's conversation and be really creative get it out your design skills if your hand lettering person make something right write it in a beautiful script way or just use Helvetica cuz you can never go wrong with Helvetica there's two other things you need to know you need to tag both of us on Instagram on Instagram he is at underscore finian underscore I know just deal with it and I'm of course at V Christo tag both of us will be searching for the best post to give a couple of books away and that's how you're gonna get the book okay we'll take care of the shipping I just want everybody to help me please welcome back Fabian Gere halter guys welcome back [Applause] very common in there too curved right that's how you do it in the to come only them t by future had all kinds here does this mitt Cristal under sister I'm an oyster nitrogen on try to find it any questions so far I wanna dunk dunk it oh wow yeah that's why you have me do it I know to lure but that's we're not gonna get into it please me we have German fans and I'm gonna be out in Berlin at some point in the very near future so thank you for doing that we love it when guests are bilingual trilingual whatever so that they can welcome our guests from all over the world so baby let's get into it what I want to do is ask you this question and it's a very simple question and you could tell the story in any which way you want how did you become how did you become a strategist tell me your story please the whole story okay here we go well listen seriously I kind of want to start at it you know right after high school like the time when everyone wants to be a lot of things and and what I wanted to what I wanted to be is I wanted to be a graphic designer like that was something that I was always interested in I couldn't draw for the life of me like I was not a good illustrator I was not a great design or hands-on but that was the time where Apple and Adobe came out and I'm like hey I can wing this now this is amazing now I can actually become a graphic designer but for me was always about the conceptual approach that was super important to me at all times so my mom said look go to art center in Switzerland it's a great school you know we would actually fund this which was amazing because our art center is not very cheap and I said look that's great but I also really would love to be on the radio like that's a career that I could see really do which well now I've got my podcast so it's kind of like my mini radio right and I I was also a pretty good snowboarder and I thought at 18 I'm like maybe that's a career maybe I want to become a professional snowboarder and so what she did she she didn't want to have it she basically said look I think design is the thing for you but there's a career psychologist there is such a thing which is totally totally strange she's like let's go to this career psychologist you know he's gonna run you through all of his tests and then afterwards we're gonna see in which direction your career should really go and I was scared be believe so I'm 18 I suck at school because most creative Stu you're just kind of like you want to be created if you don't want to be stuck in textbooks um and this guy has me in a room for eight hours straight through the entire thing asking me all of these very personal questions you know how do you how do you do with people what happened in your childhood and then he does it an entire IQ test and I'm just like I'm beyond you often charge I'm like oh my god this is this whole day I should have just picked graphic-design mom right so I'm there full day a week later he invites my parents and myself to go back to his office to reveal if the son is in any ways intelligent and if he has any career path whatsoever in front of him so we go there and he's a little perplexed he said look this hasn't happened in my career before and this guy was old at the time he was really old Wow so he must probably did this for 40 years he's like and no it's not because I have the highest IQ that ever happened like sadly that was not it it was not bad at all though but he basically said look this never happened before I have a graph that is one-to-one identical so once he does all the tests right it's like this it's this curve right it goes up and down it is this thing on which he bases his analysis and he says there was one guy here about ten years ago and you're Cerf and I looked at it it totally reminded me of his curve so he went ahead into the archives and he pulled out that curve and he was literally and he put it on top of us and he said this is one-to-one with this guy and we're all like oh god he's like the Biggest Loser and he had like hand it over to the authorities um no so so he said this guy studied graphic design at Art Center and he is now in New York ten years later he's in New York City and he's a creative director mm-hmm and that totally blew my mind so I'm literally from that time where I did this test with this guy it was about it was about what like four years forward and I am a creative director in Los Angeles I mean I'm a kid from Vienna right like I'm in Austria I didn't even mean to study in in in in the US I was studying I was going to study at Art Centre in Switzerland which they had back then so that was just to me that was that was really exciting and it was also exciting not only because it's like look this is gonna be your career but I loved that strategic approach that he had right into actually like look at the data and then to change someone's life completely based on the data so anyways like like moving forward studied studied communication design at Art Center in Europe moved over to Art Center in Pasadena because the College strangely enough closed doors and I had to move to the US and suddenly I'm one step closer so I I did graphic design you know and now now suddenly I'm in Los Angeles and at this point I met this instructor by the name of Roland young and Chris I don't know if you ever met Roland of course yes I'm sure everyone has a story so for those who don't know Roland young you can go on youtube not now because you stay right here but later on if Chris doesn't have any other show you go to youtube and you thought you type in Roland is God I think I think that's it it is I mean it's a YouTube video I think Oh enough farik agreed I think he did it oh it was oh my god oh and she I think his name is so anyways so what he did is he filmed an entire like 30 minutes of the class with with Roland young like with shaky hands like you know back then his camera camcorder I think at the time right and he had it he had it like hidden and you get a good idea of who Roland young is anyways I I'm there in class with Roland young I was always very excited about mixing advertising and graphic design so I liked the big concept the strategy behind advertising and then using design to really haven't have a clear message in the most minimalist way possible and so I really liked Roland that was his kind of style so we're in class and we did it secret right so everyone you know everyone's work is being judged they're like 20 pieces of work up there and there's one piece in the middle that it's just drop-dead gorgeous it is beautiful it's this really intricate illustration that this girl has done she must have spent it least 10 hours doing it right it's just gorgeous so you walk into the room and this one piece versus ax is amazing and then there are all the other posters um and Roland kind of quits everything not that one piece he never talks about it and they're very and the last thing he goes to this piece and we're like we're all like really excited amazing Peter right here it comes he looks at the piece very long it's kind of like remember when Obama was president and he always had these long pauses between thoughts and that that's what made people actually like listen and Roland Young did that where he was just standing and then nothing happened and everyone was like God what is he gonna do like what is he gonna talk about this poster because he already ripped everyone apart you know verbally he takes this this piece of art that was hint drawn and he slowly rips it into two pieces oh my god and everyone's everyone's focusing on Roland and then they focus on the girl that just spent like a night working on this right then he was a beautiful piece um and then he rips it again smaller pieces everything is on the floor the girl slowly starts tearing up yeah and we're all like what is going on and then rolling this like it is beautiful and we're like okay this guy is completely crazy and then he said something that for me I think really shaped the way that the way that I work in the way that I think he said but it has no concept so if it doesn't have a concept you're not solving for the problem that the class is about so if the class is about solving a certain issue for certain clients and you do something that is really beautiful it is completely worthless for this moment in time and to me that was really profound like I actually felt that that was such a great way to get a message across of this is not fine art this is not graphic design without a client you actually have to have to solve a problem and I think for me that was maybe because I was not a great illustrator you know and I was always about the conceptual part that kind of like that kind of like drove me so you know fast forward you know I did to creative director jobs after after Art Center and I hassled I always hasn't you know yet Gary Vee on the other day right this way it was all about the hustle so I worked at night for freelance projects mainly in Europe because I didn't have my green card yet I couldn't actually you know make money but I literally I came home from a creative director job that I was way under qualified for and so I had to learn on the job and then at night I worked for clients and then the minute the green card came in I'm like okay this is it I'm gonna start my studio worked my way through the studio into you know into actually having 18 people having a real design office and at some point I realized you know what I don't like to do the output I don't like to do all of this work for very little money and having to constantly grow grow a business and it was at the same time where a client went bad which happens a lot in creative businesses and I'm sure you have tons of classes about this Chris at the future didn't have a good contract bad client we had to kind of like staff down I had to let some people go and I decided look I got a really redo my company um hired a guy David Baker who came in and he helped me you know analyze what we're really great at and I decided look I'm gonna change the company name we're gonna write a book about what I am going to do we called it how to launch a brand and it had all of these chapters in you know first you create a brand platform then the name then this and that was the process that we wanted to do so I scaled down to two people and really by writing this book I realized that that to launch a brand the most important thing is the strategic component because startups are all over the place right you have to hone them in what is what is a start-up really about and in the way by writing this and by changing my company I got into I got into strategy and I think all of us in the beginning are super scared you know strategy such a big word it can mean so many things to especially brand strategy yeah and so in the beginning I basically had a questionnaire like all of you have write the identity questionnaire and we just had a company questionnaire and I did like a two-hour session with clients and and we set together and it was basically an interactive questionnaire at that point I didn't charge much because I was afraid to charge for it and I did a couple of those and at some point I realized when the clients walked out oh my god I totally changed their company I actually more of did I pivoted their company during a two-hour meeting and they are going to be such a great company now or so I assumed right I assumed that I I moved them into totally different totally positive direction through brand thinking because when thinking is very different than you know then corporate strategy and you know start up you know start up thinking so when that happened I knew that this is really important and I started doubling my fee I changed that questionnaire to be a workshop it's like 60 slides or something and it's like an eight-hour session now and so now I do a lot of these eight hour sessions where I fly around the world sit with clients for eight nine hours and it gets into what I call Brent Brent therapy and now I stop my monologue because that was a whole lot and you know that's not I think people are liking the accent too so that's coming in from Ghazis like ooh that accent though so play up the accent [Music] okay so when you do these workshops how much do you charge to be in person and do these workshops for people and how do they find you so so you know it's difficult because you know like after this show I'm gonna be world famous so I'm gonna charge double so why would I say it now no it's actually it hasn't changed it hasn't changed in a while um you know it's at this point I try it I charge 8,000 you know for a day you know nine to ten thousand when it's remote because you know I have to travel a I'm not gonna be with my with my you know family or with my with my staff yep and it's it and it's it's really the value that clients get I am totally under selling myself right but because I'm not running an agency anymore I run a consultancy I have one full-time you know lead Parenti signer and that's it I have very low overhead as a company if you if you make you know eight or ten grand a day that's not that's not a bad that's not a bad calculation you know especially since doing these workshops you really become one with the like you actually usually you sell a lot more to that client afterwards because you you start to really understand that company I mean you know in Brent strategy clients tell you everything they tell you where they're bad at with a really good ad to tell you everything about the competitors um it's it's therapeutic right you just spill it all out and then you kind of part of the team which is totally different when your logo designer because they can fire you on the spot anytime right you don't bring that value to a client that someone brings to a client when they're when they're actually talking strategy do you find that most of your clients are remote or they local to Los Angeles most of them are remote so this is a concept that a lot of people have a hard time getting their heads wrapped around because they're saying oh I'm in this country I'm in this city and the people here don't value design let alone strategy so how can I do this so I can you get a little tactical here how is it that entrepreneurs from other countries or finding out out about you and willing to part with eight to nine thousand dollars which is for some people double what they make the whole year how is it they can find you fabien well I think it's it's a lot of it's a lot of creating content right I mean that is that is really it in the end it is creating content that you cater not to other designers or to other strategist but you cater it to CEOs you cater to founders of company to whoever you want you want to work with right you might want to work with only banks well then writes a strategic brand content only around you know like the financial services industry but for me at CEO so I I tried to I try to create that content you know I wrote two books I have a podcast going where I interview founders and investors and I really get out there to be part of that of that community and to talk the talk and how do they find me I think they find me mainly you know through a lot of online content where they say okay this company seems to be good and I write for Forbes and I write for Inc not as much as I should but I do so I think I think you have to enter their their their you know their stratosphere and you know like wherever they are you have to be part of that and you have to stand out by giving them kind of like free ideas good ideas when you chat with them a couple of times I know you did it on your channel you know you have no problem quickly like dropping a couple of like you know big nuggets but obviously you hope that everyone is becoming part of your part of your subscriber base and they paid channel in the future so it's it's not much different um the way I do it can you give me an example of an article you've written it doesn't matter where it's published but the title of the article so I can get a sense of the nature of the things that you're writing about that it would appeal to a prospect versus another creative well you know I mean instead of saying how to name your company I would say you know and this fictitious right but I would say you know four ways to gain buy-in into your new company name so something where I know that the CMO is it's like fearing what is gonna happen once I have that name and the CMO might still say I'm gonna do this in-house I don't need I don't need to hire a consultant but once they read it or their owner once they read it they're like oh is it so profound this makes sense these exactly the four steps who's this guy oh I'm gonna click on it oh my god he only works with people like me and he's in Los Angeles and then there's a phone call and then it's like well I can do this with you you're actually fairly affordable you know for their space right right and then one thing leads to another and you know I mean I got a fantastic lines you talked about how you're going to to warschau in a couple of weeks or months from now and we chatted a little bit before the livestream and I I have a client that I got because I talked at a conference in Santa Monica and he happened to be here he was from Poland and he said look I got to do one of those workshops with you immediately like I like what you're talking about and he kind of like in his vacation time he spent the day with me and that's three years ago and he's still a client of mine and I flew to Warsaw you know like I did the whole rebrand with him and announced it to his whole team and so it's like you never know where people come from but in the end it is about a personal connection I really believe that I think if you're any brand agency and you've got the same old process and you've got the same ol upsell and you know you just feel hungry people don't want to work with you but if you're if you're an entrepreneur like they're an entrepreneur and you just high-five them and say I totally get it where you're at now and here five ways that we can get you to the other side the whole graphic design part and the naming part and all of that even though but did they buy that in the end it's not that important anymore it's about you know you actually being a guide to get them to where they need to be perfect I'm taking notes here so in case you guys think I'm chatting away or doing something frivolous I'm actually trying to write the notes for this because this is a little bit more like an off-the-cuff chat so we're not talking about structured decks or anything and I think people are leaning into this now I have to bring up this one thing we have a common friend I think another Arts Center a German not an Austrian a German this is a yo-yo yeah and he's like you know what strategies is this buzzword I don't think he buys into it he thinks this is a ploy that creatives used to describe their work so that they'll seem a little bit more special and unique I'm not certain that this friend of mine truly understands it because there's like design is everything and he recently put out a post he's like it requires courage to design designing is courage and strategy minimizes the risk how do you feel about that statement against against my fellow closely-related nearly Countryman yeah I I could even imagine who it is look we will change the names to protect the innocent so just here's the thing yes strategy is everything strategy is everything and and here's why I say this at some point about 10 years ago I stopped designing a lot of my clients still think I design but I stopped designing because I didn't want to push pixels all night long it was just something that I you know I felt like I just don't want to do it I think it happens to a lot of people are certain in a certain time you know and at that moment it coincided that suddenly I was able to actually look at things in a very subjective way like I didn't I wasn't emotionally attached to it so just imagine you design a logo for a client you've got one week time um you design three logos you really want to impress them you spend day and night working on those logos you present them and then suddenly some guy like me the client site comes in and the client says hey here's baby and his apparent consultant he's gonna help us make decisions and suddenly this clown comes in me and I say very straight I say this one works really well because of a B and C because it's gonna convince more client you know it's gonna get us more clients because it's gonna look very different from the competition and because it tells the story that it needs to need to tell but the added to a complete chunk or I say all three a chunk because they just don't go I'm basically the rowland young in the room that just says all of this doesn't work and here's why it doesn't work if i would be the designer i would be so emotionally attached to it because i feel like i get it like there's so much in there and the client just doesn't see it so the minute that I stopped designing I gained distance and I think it actually really helps me now to do strategy and then have my in-house designer bring in more thoughts and do her thing but but but it's it's you have to kind of like separate yourself from the creative work to think strategic and so if you're a graphic designer saying hey I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a strategist as well you have to be really really good at separating your own ego from your creative work and then kind of like it's a left right brain thing and there are not many that really can can do that right where you can where you can think creative but you can also think very strategic and businesslike and I think that's what a really good brand strategist does and that's what it that's what I really takes so if you could if this person is this German was in the room with us and I think I need to set up a debate between the two of you just German and German or German and Austrian question please we will sure if this person he was standing right in front of you and he said designing his courage and strategy mitigates the risk how would you directly respond to him well I I I would say the same thing I just said literally literally it's you know like design design is not there is no reason to have design if you don't have strategy right yes no seriously because I mean then you can sit at home you know and and you know and and just get stoned all night long and draw pretty pictures and put them up on like some website where other designers high-five huh well that's great who cares like I don't care right like all the pretty pictures that you see right now behind me if they don't if they don't tell a story if they don't motivate you to do something then they're useless in my eye unless they're art right but then you frame them and then then it's a totally different thing so the message and the strategy of where do you want your customer your fewer your client your your member whoever where do you want them to go did you just say that he just said I didn't hear not that member I'm talking about no no no he said the fear the fear the furor like hi Hitler the Fuhrer oh god no Germans allow this and it subliminal okay now where have I been no he said he said you were the fewer against like the fewer I'm like who you working for my friend look you have to in the end you have to get people to actually move on on your message okay okay let me sit let me break it down to be something much simpler is designing courage just respond to that because I don't think so I don't think so either I don't think I responded to him saying there must be a lot of courageous people out there I'm so flat but like I don't put the two together item put lies designing courage why is designing courage I think strategies courage fate is all if you put yourself out there I mean you make a decision and you say look I know this company is your life but I'm telling you to shift this company into a different direction okay because you will stand out from your competitors and people will love you that's freaking courage and I do this and when after which when it doesn't work out that's a huge problem if you design something and you say oh I'm so so courageous to design this beautiful piece I don't I don't understand it I think design is super important don't get me wrong right like I am I'm i'm a born designer a love design but i always believed in that whole philosophy that it's useless if it doesn't tell a story okay well at the beginning of the show we said that strategy brand strategy is not for everybody it requires a certain person who could dance with the creative the logic the intuition and go back and forth it requires a person to be a lot more objective and neutral unbiased to be able to talk about it in any kind of real meaningful way as a question sorry it's about this okay you just gonna interrupt wasn't I was called a dramatic pause but okay glad Erin you've ready that's a good question that tells an easy one to answer no explain okay no because it is so different you know like if I if I'm a good designer I know the skill I know how to design I you know I understand the industry I understand my phone to understand my colors and and I do think creatively and I do think conceptually right and I do solve for certain problems but it is very different type of problems that you're usually solving is that you usually solve but I do believe that if you're a graphic designer that over time you start becoming more and more interested in your clients business and into solving you know problems for your client that are bigger than you know just solving this one project let's create a logo that's really great or a poster it's really great or a website that's really great and I think it's gonna help you if you're a graphic designer if you start to think more strategically you know that okay but you don't have to be a graphic I I agree with you so what skills do you need to acquire to become a strategist if I was in art school or design school what classes would you recommend that I take if I wanted to go down this path like what you're saying sounds really interesting and the idea of making a thousand dollars an hour and being listened to and having a conversation at the highest level with the c-suite executives what would I have to study I think study a lot of communication study a lot of courses that are super super high concept right well you have to solve real big problems try to do sponsored projects if they have that in your school where you actually start working with a client you interfere with you know real real clients and you know when you start working as a freelancer later on or even you know a lot of you I'm sure are going to do this during school where they start doing side gigs if you dread client meetings if you are really scared when you first enter a room with like three four people in there and they don't know you and you start sweating profusely and you're like oh my god like I hate this moment right now and you have to talk through an hour and present your stuff if you think you can't get into this if you think that that's your worst fear then you have Denton strategy might not be right for you or you might have to really really work and you know obviously you can go against it like try to push yourself into that because the one thing that I believe and increase I'm interested in to hear your opinion that I believe makes a great brand strategist a great brand strategist is emotional intelligence like you have to you have to be able to very quickly formulate a rapport with the person in the room quickly you know take the temperature of everyone there and kind of like you know shift and pivot around the meeting to so that you make a great impression you get exactly out of the client what you want to get out of and you treat everyone in the way that they need to be treated within the company we do you know which that too is kind of like it's a fine it's a fine line so back to the question what are you doing College I think just just really test your limits when it comes to you know like like being on a podium and speaking to a lot of people and speaking to clients you know and I'm not just fictitious you know homework mmm okay I'm gonna answer my own question then I got a list there so if you're in design school if you're going to study art and design and you you aspire to become a strategist what classes would you take I think the first thing you got to do is you got to think what are you doing in that design are school because the skills are not necessary related and you might not get the best education so in the interest of doing public service good here I'm going to tell you what kind of classes you need to take you need to take a business class you need to take a class on marketing positioning copywriting you probably want to launch a company if only just to experience it yourself to see what your pain points are you probably need to take classes on entrepreneurship philosophy rhetoric and psychology notice none of them are about aesthetic and making 0% of these things are and if you want to be a strategist that's where I would begin and now I hope that they actually have these classes in in you know in most art they don't that's why right that's I was stuck in my yeah within the problem right yes okay now Ciaran cuz you interrupt me before I don't have no idea what I was in ass baby and it was gonna be really good I know what it is okay alright so how do we separate ourselves if we say this is right or wrong for me if I'm a designer and this sounds really exciting and sexy that could make this kind of money how do I know what's right for me cuz it's not right for everybody if you didn't test if this is about the money then this may not be right for you okay right so it's not look there's this whole thing that is going on in the future which makes so much sense which is how can we get graphic designers to actually make the money and give the value that that they're supposed to given the money that they're supposed to make and one of these you know great strategies is well start showing yourself more as a leader start to infuse yourself into the companies and and create real solutions and it all kind of points back to become become a brand strategist or talk more about brand strategy and I just don't want anyone to do that for the reason of oh I can charge more money because it's just not it's not the value you give at that point at that point you're still not a brand strategist so going back to what Gary Vee said I think like a couple a couple of weeks ago on your show he said look graphic designers should work for free until they actually you know show value and even though that was really drastic it's Gary B it should be like that right I do believe to a certain extent that in the beginning even for my brand workshop in the beginning which was a glorified questionnaire I didn't charge much I may be charged a thousand five hundred two thousand dollars because I didn't even myself believe in the value I was giving but as I started doing it more and more I started to understand that there is a huge value so I think that in the beginning don't do it for the money do it to see that does it does it stick do you like it do you enjoy it because why learn a new skill if in the end you're not gonna enjoy it because then you might as well work for a bank you know and and you know go up in Wall Street and start making more money way more money than you could ever ever make right then it's for the money don't work for the money that's fine I hear that loud and clear but let's say like I'm intrigued by what you're saying forget about the money I'm intrigued by what you're saying and you're like don't get into it if you don't enjoy it what is it give me a couple of examples of the skills or things that you have to do to be a strategist so I can say this is it that that creeps me out or I'm really excited about that well you know I mean for instance if there's a company that just has a merger and they're like oh my god we're having a merger this whole thing is gonna go down within one month we need a brand strategist to come in to figure out how are we going to merge these two brands how are we going to communicate to our our stakeholders how are we going to look at the brand architecture of two companies and when and more fit into one how are we going to change naming structures and I need you to fly around between these two headquarters and figure this stuff out that for instance one thing that a brand strategist would do or we're new startup we've got you know like 18 lines of products we have a couple of months to launch these we need to really figure out how do we how do we actually address our our customer like how should we where should we you know launch these you know how should the companies you know how should these brands be called how do they differentiate from competitors you know and really you're basically at this point you're working kind of like a marketing director but you're a brand director so you're not as much on the tactical part you're more in the strategic part of setting the pathway and hence on creating naming structures right like like actually you know delivery on that trade markable names for multinational corporation stuff like that that's what a brand strategist does and it is in the beginning it's pretty scary but on the other hand it's it's so much fun because now you're really coming in and a company on the very top level and you and you really start thinking with the c-suite about these about these decisions so I have a couple of things I was just thinking about this one you said this if you don't like to do research like really deep research if you don't like to read if you don't like to write to think to communicate to be in front of a lot of people and to sometimes be the center of the conversation not all the time because most of the time you should be listening asking really smart questions and then just sitting back if you don't like documenting if you don't like challenging people and in terms of what they think based on the data that you've seen probably this is not right for you okay so I'm gonna ask you this question it's coming in from blue form on the YouTube chat right now they're asking please ask Fabian is it possible to be a brand strategy company without offering actual design absolutely absolutely there plenty of friends consultancies that only do strategic work there's a lot of them and they and they literally get called in for the problems that I just discussed and usually they work with larger fortune 500 type companies because they understand that now we need a brand strategy company to come in and consult with to actually to actually figure this out so absolutely but can you do it as a solopreneur absolutely you can but I think you should use your graphic design you know practice and first start pushing strategy see if you like it you know like like build out an expertise around strategy and even if it's just one component right if you just say as far as brand strategy goes and it goes I only do this one thing and that's what I do for my clients on the strategic side see if it sells see if you like it see if you're intimidated see if you can do the quick thinking that's necessary in meetings as Chris pointed out and then if you start seeing oh my god I love this this is great I make so much more money doing this I feel like I'm giving more to my clients and I'm actually really moving the needle um so it works on all levels then slowly like build out the graphic design or just change your name and have a brand consultancy and then people just go for for you as the person rather than you as the business hmm I want to read this comment really quick coming from Mishima who you guys may have seen on the show before she says I have a BS and advertising from a School of Journalism and mass communication never did I hear the word positioning used in any class this stuff needs to be taught everywhere aim or elsewhere I'm sorry else else amen mm-hmm absolute that that is shocking right because your background we just talked about colleges yes and like you have the perfect background to become a brand strategist right you you you you have it all and that you never heard about something as fundamental and and simple you know as far as like you know like like the process goes it's positioning I totally agree with you that's shocking yeah yeah okay so where else do we take this conversation I've given you freedom and permission to push the conversation any which direction to challenge me if you want we can have fun because Haven are actually friends we met many many years ago coincidentally both speaking at a local college here in Santa Monica and then from there were like oh we're both our center oh we're kind of a certain age and we like 80's music okay Depeche Mode I'm in so a friendship ring awesome oh I remember it all because you're a big Depeche Mode head right that's true yes you are it's not televised yeah and so now it's interesting to watch you in your career trajectory and how you've simplified and scaled down so you can focus up and you've had really great results because of that right yeah I mean look for me I I figured everyone always has bigger is better right like more people right like you have to have a real agency you have to have you know huge clients and lots of awards and lots of people and I did it and I didn't enjoy it like it didn't personally fulfill me I also didn't feel like you know financially it's you know it took me where I wanted to be so you know I think you got it you got to have the balls to just at some point say yes you er you know no you got a half that right like you you gotta have that you know whatever hustle or you gotta have that thing to just say I'm okay to understand that suddenly I need to I need to change my entire life and it's yes you have the courage the intestinal fortitude to do this I know what you think I'm gonna read a comment here from bellwether brand bellwether brand says Chris describes doing discovery and brand strategy like therapy that you draw insights from the client stakeholders do you see it that way Fabian if you go on Instagram and you hashtag Brent therapy Thursdays you're gonna see me talk about Brent it's all I do it's like I've been doing this for a year Brent therapy Thursday brand therapy its water it's therapeutic and I think that's why we talk so much about you have to like interacting with people you have to like taking this out and you know when I when I prepped quote/unquote for for today's show because it really is off the cuff but I'm like what am I gonna tell these people right like how much of my life story and I thought back to this career psychologist which is such a weird story and then I thought back to when I changed my company around and I had this guy come in both of these people what they did is they you know I spent a day with them they charged a boatload of money and everyone's like wow really like is that necessary do I really need this and both of these people completely changed my life completely changed my life right and I feel that that's what I love doing now right like I go into a company and within one day I can change their life to me that is that is huge and to me that so much more fulfilling than spending two weeks creating a logo having more revisions spending another two weeks on it everyone's getting frustrated you know and even though we still do that we design logos and we're really great at it it starts different because we have that background of this is the brand now this is these are all the goals we need to actually fulfill with the logo at that point people can look back at that print strategy and say that's right we have to solve for that my designer can do that I can do that my client can do that so logos get done in you know a week or two because everyone says oh perfect we sold for all of these problems but Chris I really think it's I really think we should try to get as many as many questions from the audience I'm so ready I have Aaron your first go so from Julian buon how can you gain the knowledge or or how can you gain the knowledge of a specific industry to be able to help and also how do you convince the company that you understand that industry so this is interesting I'm looking forward to your thoughts and just to Chris I always come it's this big thing clients say look I really need you to have a lot of know-how in my industry and then I come in and I say I am so glad I have no know-how in your industry and then they're just perplexed because everyone's making up that they have know-how in the industry and I just say look no I don't want to have know-how in your industry because I want you to disrupt I want you to be different I want to come in you know from a clean slate and then learn with you and then start understanding once we engage but I don't need to know everything about every industry I don't need to work with the blockchain client and be like them perfect like I I know everything about blockchain I don't usually it's fairly easy to understand the basics especially when you sit with the c-suite and you talk about everything right so I think I think you should really know a lot of things you should just know enough to be dangerous to hold a conversation with pretty much anyone right so I think it's more about common knowledge and about reading a whole lot and I'm not talking about reading you know books all the time I'm talking about periodicals I'm talking about get a lot of newsletters about you know from from Bloomberg Businessweek to fortune to Forbes to you know like like business magazines and to me they are more exciting than any communication arts or graffiti ever was right because to me that I can read about how companies actually the problems that they have and how to solve it and what's going on right now and what is trending so if a new client calls me and they're saying hey we're in the CBD industry I'm like okay well perfect let's talk because I totally understand it I'm not the guy that I don't need to use it but I understand that at industry right now it's really hot I understand the problems you know I see it popping around so I think that's enough to just have common knowledge yeah okay so here's what we're gonna need to do because I'm gonna have to get you to answer questions faster if we want more questions in wait yes no warranties no okay and in case you guys are joining us late I want to tell you guys how you can get a copy look at this I guys can get a copy of one of these books okay I've been given some my fabian to give away to you guys so here's my slide guys if you want to get a copy of this book here's what you need to do share something that you learned take one nugget one phrase one idea whatever it is from today and be creative with how you express this and share it with us on Instagram make sure you tag both of us at underscore Fenian underscore a Fenian has it's like one end fin and IEN and then of course me at the Chris doe okay and that's how we're gonna give away these books so Fabian and I will pick some amazing creative people to give the books away to and we'll contact you on Instagram okay so here's a couple of questions I want you to answer this as hippocras this one can yes it's clear and it's emphatic as you can okay is the logo a brand no we're not I shouldn't I shouldn't say more well logo helps a brand to be established and it's part of a lot of different ingredients that makes a brand okay is a logo important to the success of a company to a certain extent yes no there's the difference between like one word answers and then a whole monologue about it look a little bit logo can absolutely attract people to a company it can help differentiate a company and it can set the tone for the entire graphic language around the company all of that that consistency around your entire you know user interface and you know corporate ID is super super important okay yes it's important okay let me ask you the other question is Amazon's logo good I think it's pretty good yeah yes you know I like I like I like the story I like I like the smile I like the a to see you know there's a smile from A to C it's pretty good okay fantastic what is a logo worth it did you know what's a painting were if it depends on the fewer right no seriously look I mean what is it local Wharf and logo your logo might be worth two dollars mm-hmm or it might be worth you know maybe $200,000 how do we determine the value then we determined the value by the size of the company by the reach of the company and by how complex this strategic work is to get to that logo so are you saying the same amount of work put into a logo will cost more depending on the buyer so we charge people who have more money more money and is that fair it's debatable which of course we're doing is amazing on a thank you I took me awhile ya know it's debatable look I mean I don't think that I don't think that if I design the logo for the local bakery that just because I sit down at my computer and design a logo that it's identical with designing a new logo for British patrol 4bp right it's very different it's like wake up people right it's like tears you need to you need to have like six months of meetings before you even get to sit down at the computer so I think that is the big that big you know difference of that like you actually have to think about the process how the process changes the larger a company is I think I want a clearer answer is it ethical to charge so many more money because they can afford it for example the the question I get asked quite often I'm glad I'm not the one who has to answer this is that if a person starving for water you're gonna charge them more than the person who's not starving for water's dying of thirst well look I I think I think it is we have fixed fees pretty much at my consultancy so that that should give you a good idea right but then yet you know like even if we charge you know twenty thirty thousand dollars for for for logo in a package I might charge much more to a client because I know that that they have more money they are bigger it's more important it's gonna be more involving so yes I think it is it is ethical I think it is just being quality then I'm not no absolutely not because I do believe that more work goes into it if I think I can do the same thing with a start-up that I can do with a fortune 500 hmm then I wouldn't do it and I would just say it's the exact same thing so I I think I think it's not so much about about ethical it's more about understanding that the process will change okay by the way I don't disagree with you I'm just setting you up here I know okay here's a question from Kyle Kyle's like ask him if strategy can be into it can you do strategy intuitively yes how can absolutely do it intuitively you can intuitively a lot of strategy is intuition because you do it so often you understand how brands are being built you understand consumers you you live in a site-geist you live in the now and you just intuitively say well I put all of these thoughts together and you have this quick thought we're just your intuition says I think you should totally pivot into this direction and if the client doesn't question your intuition it doesn't say well I gotta see data we got to do a B test and all that stuff then you know that his or her intuition is in sync with yours and then you know you've got something going on then you know that it's good but you can totally do it with intuition a lot of it is huh that's interesting you you answer questions in a very different and unexpected way than I think you will this is very fascinating okay I hope I don't let you down too much no because we're selling books right now for you so I can see that people are buying books I just ordered a book love this man Aaron your turn that's the question please so I was wondering like what's like the hard part of being a strategist mm well I think I think when I talked about what it takes you know the the human interaction and kind of like the pressure on getting something right and you know like leading everything everyone in the room to the same conclusion because that's the conclusion that you want to move forward to that's the biggest thing right and to really to really understand even though I said you don't understand an industry when you first start working with them well then you have to understand an industry very quickly right so it's it takes it takes a lot of energy you know you know real energy of you to actually constantly be on to constantly think all day long and make these decisions and not say well I need to ask 10 other people no you just got to make decisions very quickly fantastic in a good way yes so somebody's asking bellwether brand is asking is there a framework to do this like core and yes there is because Fabian is going to be launching his framework pretty soon and how much is your framework gonna be it's gonna be a thousand nine hundred and it's basically what's it called by the way it's called a resonate so my workshop is called resonate with Addie as an you ate someone to resonate and so that's my usual workshop that I do hands-on with my clients those eight nine hour days and since I can't be everywhere at all times I figured I would have that framework why don't I we package that framework into an online course that people can take you know bootstrapped bootstrapped entrepreneurs but also you know designers some of you where they can say look I like a lot of these ideas I'm gonna utilize that for myself perfect our friend David goes also pro member is asking this what would you recommend as first steps to an individual who's interested in transitioning to doing brand strategy from a motion design background that's super interesting well look if you're if you're a motion designer like any designer I'm sure in the beginning there's client interaction right so basically in the beginning you say hey fill out this project brief and let's talk about your project just hold there for a second and say okay what would make my piece better that I normally don't ask like how much do I need to understand about that spot or about the background or about you know the trailer or whatever you do how much do I need to understand of that client and start thinking deeper on what is going to get you to a better result quicker and how you can kind of set the client up to do more better work in the future based on that little piece of work that you're about to do and then create a questionnaire and say look I need to meet you and you know if it's on the phone or in person I need to sit down with you and we need to really go through that because then you're gonna start getting more and more information of the person and then you're gonna start to be able to actually like shift your your creative brief into something that might be much more exciting much more strategic and I think that's how I would get started if I be emotional design but Chris I want you to answer this question I'm gonna take the fifth this is your this is your light it's okay fine David twist my arm I'm gonna tell you how to do it I'm gonna tell you because I want to ask Fabian actually more questions so here's how you do it if you're a motion graphics person how can you use brand strategy so usually you're asked to make a video you're asked to make a thing and you could switched out the word motion graphics or video with a package or a logo or an identity system or whatever it is or an interior design the first thing that you need to do is you start to have to ask the question of why are we doing this and what kind of impact will it make on the business because what we want to do is shift our thinking away from the making towards the thinking and diagnosing so once we truly understand the problem we want to do this video because we're trying to raise money for a fundraising initiative that we're doing oh how did we do last year oh we raised 200,000 well that's fantastic so was that a good goal for you no no no we want to raise a million we fell 20 percent or 80 percent short of our goal so why don't you think it works so you get into the conversation of diagnosing the problem and then ultimately somewhere they're gonna tell you what the problem is but they can't see it because as my friend Melinda has said before you can't read the label from inside the bottle they're like what is that we just and you as the objective outsider with relatively little information about their business you're not caught up in the running of the business you're like it's right there it's right on the outside that the reason why I didn't work last time was because you made it for this kind of person and this is the donor that you're looking for there oh my god you are a genius well here's the bill for that and now we can craft a video with the messaging and the motion graphics to answer that problem in particular so Dave you know you can talk to me and we'll we'll get deeper in that but there we go I have more questions for you and I love where the questions is going where the questions are going right now here we go mm-hmm as is brand strategist this is from thought harvest what do you struggle with the most 30 seconds on the clock go it's very similar to the question before what are you struggling most you struggle it most with you know like like just with with juggling all of these different clients these different industries and constantly being quote-unquote in this zone right you have to get into the zone with each client and within seconds you have to be able to provide solutions and to kind of like pivot pivot their thinking and that's it's more about like being in this part and being really quick and that takes you know a lot of energy perfect okay here's another great question coming in from Brian Cole is that a lot of people talk about how much you charge do strategy like if you're gonna charge eight nine ten thousand dollars to do one of these workshops what is it somebody walks away with what is this scope of what you deliver for that amount of money I deliver way too much for that money so I literally said I work with a lot of you know fresh companies so you might be fired to Fortune 500's they create a new product or it is bootstrapped companies that actually start start a new company a new brand so I really figure out how do you need to position the brand like what is the big why behind your company you know and then go all the way to like let's analyze the competitors let's look at where your sweet spot is let's figure out you know kind of like the beginnings of your company culture you know what are your core values you know what is the personality of the brand that one social media hits and once you actually start writing copy how what should that what your that personality be like you know like in what kind of tagline direction would you go if you have three words to describe the company what would it be and and and how does it change how people see your company then when you first walked into this workshop right so in the end it's you know if we talk about target audiences we actually create personas in that workshop it is a lot of that framework that I'm sure Chris is using and a lot of other people are using but you know you kind of you kind of start figuring out some ways that you make it your own you know I throw in things like the brand DNA how do you describe your brand in one word and it's kind of like it goes to that it goes to that like climax at the very end of that day where you just keep building up like how how can you come to a focused that focused of a description of your brand that you have one word and in the end most brands that's all they need fantastic here's a question from Mark Harmon can you ask if he includes research and analysis in your services like a market research competitive analysis SWOT surveys and focus groups etc analytics do you do that at some point I do and usually we outsource it and we are very very honest with the client that if they do want that type of work we can do it but we give it to someone else if they want to have that benchmark but is that that's not part of your core deliverables or services okay no just being clear about that and back to you sir you've been asking really good questions fire away there's so many good ones here put me on the spot here I thought that's what you were doing I don't know do you have more you can come back to me all right so go back to you yeah okay I don't know Fabian is there something that we should be asking you that we haven't asked yet that you feel really strongly about I don't know I mean look III think that the whole idea of brand strategy it's just such a big word and I think a lot of people are either excited about it because they want to make more money or they're scared of it because they feel like it's so much work and I really think in the end that's kind of like an in-between right you just start being more strategic with your clients and you start seeing if walking into these big rooms is actually right for you and if the strategies that you set out in the beginning for your clients if you start seeing those actually change ROI if you start seeing that they actually make an impact to your client and once you start seeing something work obviously you do more often so I think that that it's you know it's like the word branding Brent strategy is very misunderstood like even quite know what it is but I think that in the end burn strategy is really the idea that you set you set up a bigger goal for a company and instead of thinking like you know like a business plan you think like a brand plan like how do you how do you ask the most competitors how do you stand out over time you know and how do you how do you onboard a certain kind of clientele over the next couple of months or years and that's really when you start thinking big picture about a brand yeah okay so harden is asking this question I believe we've already answered this he's like is there an online course or book I can start to learn strategy there's a couple of books but you can also take the course that Fabian will be launching called e what would you say here s innate and as you resonate calm which has not launched yet okay you can also look at our core strategy framework a couple of books that you can recommend Fabian for print strategy you know what read everything that Marty knew Maya writes yeah and even Melinda's quote is actually Marty's quote because everyone keeps me quoting because it is just and if she might not even know right because like the label and the ball yeah you know you can see he's he's just super prolific and yes what I love about his books and I tried to write the same way it's just so to the point like you can really quickly go through it and he is a true brand strategist so if you like his thinking you know then then I think you know it's time to start moving into that direction yeah so let me say it again it's Marty new meir he's written several books brand flip the brand gap the design full company zag and something else he's written a lot of books and they're really really good because he writes the book the way that I think Fabian and I'd like to consume information he's taken the time to write as few words as possible and using imagery graphics and and graphs to communicate complex ideas that you can process almost right away so the literal amount of time that you read from cover to cover is very short but the amount of information that you can use imply tomorrow is fantastic and if you wanted to develop your own framework you could probably literally read three of his books and reverse engineer yourself right he lays it out right there for totally or you could even read how to launch a brand my first book in the first chapter it's the same thing hey I'm talking about not my book but you know talking about what you just said about like you know like how can you minimize content to like you know to say everything in the in the shortest amount as possible and you were pushing me to do that with my question with my answers but I think that's what that's what design is about right graphic design you less is more right if you what else can you take away from a logo and it makes it actually stronger and this same discipline applies to to a brand strategy right like what can you take away to make the point in the clearest way so consumers understand it right like what about does a company stand for one thing in the end that's what it should be it should stand for one thing how do you pick that word you did on my podcast remember I don't remember I put you on the spot I thought but what is the word though I mean not for you it for me but how do you help a company figure out from all the words they can choose from not choosing the typical words like innovative artistic authentic because look coca-cola is happiness right you know and and Holly Davidson is freedom and we all know that like like you can ask about some of the big brands if we just come up with that word because it's the emotion that we feel year over year with a brand and usually it's not innovation usually it's not creativity usually it is a word that is a very simple word that you might not even be able to own but if you start pushing that more more and more through your communications people will just feel that word and I think I think that is that is the beauty of most of most great brands and of course I try to push the people that I talked to to come up with a word that is as ownable as possible mm-hmm all right some of you saying Eric's like I need to make a hat that says fantastic because maybe I say that a lot okay I have one that should say fab and I would you have it no I don't oh is that company still around fab I think so I don't know I was actually more referring to my own name and being fabulous because you're fantastic but you know that was a really far scratch why don't you tell another joke you got another joke handy I don't do drugs I'm a very serious person I don't do Church ROC my accent it's like we don't do jokes okay Erin I think it's almost time for us to wrap up the show here Erin do you have a question for us I had a funny question for Fabian good this guy Carlos is asking why should I buy your book how is that funny this is a great eight because it has so much amazing information in it and it is way too cheap B because you just watched me for an hour and you're like oh my god I want to learn more see how long do you have Chris because you know I mean there's so many reasons if you want a story look I mean you should you should buy bigger than this because it gives because I researched startups that are based on commodity products and that still make it big and that's just ridiculous you know in 2019 how can startups without any innovation make it right and so there are eight chapters in it and it's just these quick like tidbits of like Oh companies actually make it because they're based on heritage I mean think about shinola right shinola has nothing going for it but heritage that's it right otherwise it's the same type of product etc etc but you can watch the YouTube show that I did with Chris where I talked about the book much more yeah so is this book title overcompensating because I'm gonna come up with the Asian version it's gonna be called so you're not smaller than this I sold the Chinese right you right you ruined my joke me and you why go over it I get it but look yes you give me crap for saying you know search of words and then you know I just find that boxing bell when you need it we gonna have to wrap up it's okay it's time for us to wrap up I was in the beginning taking notes but now I can't even take notes anymore there's too much stuff that's going on let's see what you guys come up with I'm gonna let you guys know one more time just one more time how you guys can get a free copy I'll pay for the shipping Fabian's printed the books here we go this is how you get a copy of bigger than this Asian edition coming soon share something that you learned from today be super creative get your rate of juices flowing do some hand letter stuff do a cool layout using all that Swiss design that you know and love and you need to tag us both on instagram @ underscore finian underscore at V Chris doe ok that's how you get a copy of the book parting thoughts gentlemen Jonah Aaron Fabian is there anything that we should talk about I think we've sufficiently answered the questions from the audience and we've answered the question that was posed at the beginning of the show okay I don't have time to do a recap oh no Rico I'm gonna do the summary recap it's just there it's kind of pathetic cuz I was reading comments and making fun of Fabian so it's just I didn't have time to write guys I really didn't and look we were I will definitely answer questions on your comment yes that is one thing it's very true chiman for everybody that wants to engage with Fabian he's very good on social media he's if you write a comment or a question and you are going to phrase it well he will answer it it's a bunch of gibberish she's not going to answer right thank you yeah sure okay so I have a pretty weak sauce summary here but I'm gonna just do it anyways cuz you know I was listening to you guys talk and it was summary summary content marketing you guys this is how Fabian was able to build up his empire to know who your buyers are and create something that they would value that they would value so for him what's been very effective is not to create for other creatives but to create things for clients and you need to get out of that design bubble you need to write you got to record a podcast you got to interview people you got to go on the stage I know scary and speak convert the people let them know who you are and you can make videos on YouTube if you're good with video and there's so many other things that he's taken on a very interesting arc inert journey from being a boy who didn't know what he was doing in Austria to becoming right to becoming I was a globe-trotting yes brand strategist that charges 10,000 bucks to do workshops and you could do that he's authored two books here's how you can get in touch with Fabian his name is Fabian guerre halter at Fenian calm hopefully I got all that right on Twitter it's finian insights oh I put two ends and I messed up let me fix that slight sorry somebody talk for itself I got I got a couple of takeaways that I heard go ahead there kind of just like bullet point things that you said that we're interesting yeah go ahead go for one is you said giveaway idea nuggets for free especially at first in that meeting you got to give them some for free that's a good idea hmm and then you said it's more about being a fellow entrepreneur and a guide it's not so much about the logo or the work you said you have to separate yourself from the work so that you can be objective to make the strategic business decisions can I quote you this is really good and this one was good too there's no reason to have design if you don't have strategy wow those are fighting words yeah those are fighting words everyone yes I'm getting back in the ring anytime and the last one is why learn a skill if you're not gonna enjoy it oh that's good yeah yeah you might you might win a book but then I noticed what in Chris's office but Aaron doesn't read so don't worry buddy I fixed the slide I've fixed the slide there he is at Fenian insights on twitter and underscore Affinia and underscore on instagram you guys I'm gonna play a danger exit music but let's here we go thanks for guys for watching don't forget to Like comment and subscribe and hit that Bell for notification if you want to know about future events and coming on a show you have to go to Facebook I know some of you guys hate Facebook you're too young for it but that's the way you guys can find out about what's going on okay big shout out heartfelt thanks to all just sustaining members feature fam donation donuts I know who you are love you guys see you guys next time peace [Music]

Channel: The Futur

Views: 145,275

Rating: 4.951807 out of 5

Keywords: build branding, content creation, entrepreneur, build trust, social media, business, product, how to market a product, how to, the futur, chris do, fabian geyrhalter, art center, finien, brand, branding, brand strategy, brand strategist, design, graphic design, how to become, the brand gap, zag, marty neumeier, Douglas Davis

Id: jo5THshRG60

Length: 69min 17sec (4157 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 22 2019