What if Gandalf Took the Ring? | Tolkien Theory

it's a question many have asked what would happen if one of the most powerful beings in middle earth took the ring now i've taken all the effort i put into my usual videos mapping travels researching dates and timelines and put it into figuring out a plausible sequence of events so today on nerd of the rings we tackle the question what if gandalf took the one ring our story begins in bag end over the years gandalf has grown suspicious of bilbo's ring after bilbo leaves he instructs frodo not to use it believing it may be a ring of power as aragorn hunts for gollum gandolf makes his way to minas tirith where he finds the scroll of a seal door and puts together the pieces of the history of the one ring he leaves minas tirith and on his way back to the shire he learns from the elves of lorian that aragorn has captured gollum gandalf travels to merkwood where he interrogates gollum seeing the effects that the ring has had on this creature who had once been a hobbit in addition to how it affected bilbo over the past decades gandalf is now certain the ring frodo now possesses is in fact the one ring gandalf travels with all haste back to the shire arriving on april 12 3018. in the book we get a sense of how gandalf could have come to possess the ring and what could happen if he did no cried gandalf with that power i should have power too great and terrible over me the ring would gain a power still greater and more deadly do not tempt me i do not wish to become like the dark lord himself yet the way of the ring to my heart is by pity pity for weakness and the desire of strength to do good the wish to wield it would be too great for my strength now this is where the true story diverges and our theory takes hold after confirming frodo's ring to be the one frodo offers it to gandalf rather than refuse gandalf out of his pity for hobbits and desire to do good agrees to take the one ring this would be an all too logical thing to do after all sauron has known the names of shire and bagans for at least a year by this point he will surely be coming for the ring and the land of the shire and its hobbit inhabitants are ill-prepared and ill-equipped to face any force of the enemy even with the modest guard of dunadine around its borders not to mention a hobbit like frodo if confronted by a servant of the enemy would stand little chance of fighting back or escaping so gandalf takes possession of the ring and decides to head to rivendell the nearest place of strength from which to move rather than leave in september as frodo would gandolf leaves on may 1st the same day he leaves the shire in the actual story in the books it takes gandalf from september 29th to october 18th to reach rivendell from hobbiton that is less than three weeks which includes being attacked by the nazgul on weathertop and taking a long detour north in order to lose the four pursuing him we can safely assume that with the nazgul not leaving their dwellings of minas morgul and dogeldor until june 20th gandalf reaches rivendell with relative ease within the same 3 week period meaning he arrives in him ladris before the end of may 3018. it's possible and even likely that gandalf would have aragorn accompany him to rivendell but the other fellowship members would not be in rivendell for quite some time and the hobbits would be left out entirely gollum won't escape the elves captivity until june 20th so there's yet no reason for legolas to come to rivendell likewise boromir and gimli would also have not yet left their homes let alone arrived in amladdress now the fellowship stayed in rivendell for roughly two months so for consistency's sake we'll say gandalf rests in rivendell for the same amount of time therefore at some point between the end of may and the end of july it is left to those who remain to have their own council gandalf elrond glorfendel aragorn and the elves of rivendell now i believe gandalf would still at this point be following his own advice to not use the ring his trip has been relatively easy thus far so there's been no reason yet for him to use it or even remove it from his bag or pocket or wherever he stores it however as he has possessed the ring for two months it begins to work on him though he likely does not realize it even if it was kept in a vault in rivendell while they decide what to do having possessed it for weeks the ring begins to weigh on gandalf's thoughts by this time the ring has just enough effect on gandalf to lead him to volunteer to take the ring at the council the council still decides to destroy the ring of course as we learn in the actual book that this is truly the only viable option they have now here they would have a choice would they go south towards the gap of rohan or would they travel east crossing the mountains then turning south to lorien here i believe they would mimic what occurs in the actual story going south towards a gap of rohan for multiple reasons first traveling to lorien this way would take them close to murkwood and even more concerning while sauron had been kicked out of dolgodur by the white council decades earlier we know from my ringwraith video that sauron still had forces there led by the nas ghoul kamal the easterling traveling so near to sauron's one stronghold outside of mordor would indeed be taking a huge risk second at this point the wise would be completely unaware of the treachery of saruman speaking of saruman you may wonder why would gandalf not immediately go to saramon like he does in the films to consult the white wizard while in the books gandalf only goes to eisenguard after meeting ratagast on the road while wandering eriador since gandolf has now taken the ring himself he has no need to seek news in the wild and therefore would not meet up with ratagas to be told to go to isengard this may be a bit of a stretch but for all we know ratagast may himself come to rivendell during this two-month period seeking gandalf he may even take part in this revised council informing gandalf that saruman wishes to see him like he does in the book so this fellowship would believe they had an ally and a powerful one awaiting them at isengard this alternate fellowship leaves rivendell around the beginning of august you know what to avoid any confusion with the actual fellowship i'm going to call our hypothetical fellowship gandalf's company since he's the star of this theory gandalf aragorn and a small group of elrond's elves make up the company as in the books i believe elrond and glorfendel remain behind once again there's two possible approaches here do they take the path from the actual story heading south on foot along the narrow paths beside the mountains in order to evade spies or do they go by roads on which they could take horses today i'm going with the same path as the canon story gandalf's company is made of more warriors but i think they would still err on the side of caution choosing to evade the spies of sauron and travel in secrecy interestingly this means they would likely miss boromir who at this point is traveling north to find rivendell we know boromir departs minas tirith on a horseback on july 4th he makes his way north and through the gap of rohan as he forged the grey flood he loses his horse and must travel the rest of the way on foot he spends a good chunk of his trip wandering the roads of ariador as he doesn't know where exactly rivendell is located as he says at the council of elrond long have i wandered by roads forgotten seeking the house of elrond of which many have heard but few knew where it lay since gandalf's company takes the paths near the misty mountains they miss boromir completely now we know it takes the fellowship a bit over a month to go from rivendell to lorien which includes a failed attempt to cross the redhorn pass so we'll give gandalf's company a month and a half to make their way to saruman in orthanc arriving in mid-september now this is where things get really interesting gandalf having always been cautious around saruman and feeling the grip of the one ring decides to hide its presence saruman tells the group he must discuss important matters with gandalf alone wizard to wizard as it were while the rest of the group waits gandalf and saruman make their way into orthanc where saruman builds up to his big reveal his pitch to gandalf to join with sauron gandolf refuses saruman attacks and begins to take the upper hand in their fight in his desperation not truly knowing or being cognizant of what he's doing gandalf slips on the one ring as the power surges through him gandalf fights back and while defending himself kills saruman with this act the one ring strengthens its hold on gandalf having heard the commotion the rest of gandalf's company burst into the tower of isengard gandolf explained sauron's treachery and his attack on gandalf while hiding his use of the one ring the group seeking to reassess their path after having lost what they thought would be an ally rest at eisenguard here the change of timeline causes a very interesting circumstance again since we know the journeys of the ring wraiths we know that in september 3018 they've returned to the wold in rohan having unsuccessfully searched the veils of anduin for leads on the shire and for gollum at this point sauron is aware of saruman's treachery and tells the nas ghoul via messenger to abandon secrecy and make for isengard their arrival date is september 18th which lines up perfectly with gandalf's company resting there the nine come to eisengard seeking saruman but instead they find gandalf's company could a group of elves along with gandalf and aragorn withstand the nine it's possible however as gandalf has now used the ring and had a couple days to dwell on the power that it brought him he is unable to resist the opportunity presented to him in unfinished tales we hear a very applicable line from saruman to the nazgul when they come to isengard i have it not as surely its servants perceive without telling for if i had it then you would bow before me and call me lord with the nine preparing to lay siege upon orthanc gandolf slips on the ring once again the ring wraiths are confronted by its new bearer the nas ghoul are now gandalfs to command naturally aragorn and the elven companions would be uneasy by this development gandalf dismisses their concerns as a one-time occurrence he assures them he only used the ring this one time as they could not hope to battle all nine while he was still weary from his battle with saruman it is just the stroke of luck they need in the end gandalf convinces the group that the ring rights cannot be destroyed while sauron and the ring endure however since gandalf possesses the ring he can command them causing havoc in sauron's forces reluctantly aragorn and the elves allow gandalf to send forth the nazgul he commands the witch king to return to minus morgul and make preparations for war with all the orcs under his command gandalf's company makes their way southeast to rohan arriving at eterus around a week later just as in the books theoden and his kingdom have been weakened by the words and poison of grima worm tongue in similar fashion to the real story theory gandalf comes to eterus and heals the king and grima wormtongue is banished from the realm in the books theoden is much more eager to fight saruman than in the films the very same day that theoden is healed he leads the rohirum to take the fight to saruman in similar fashion theory theodin is brought up to speed by gandalf except in this situation they are taking the fight to sauron gandalf consults with the king and it is decided theoden will muster the rohirrim and ride to minas tirith after a rest of about a week in eteres gandolf makes his way south he tells aragorn and the elves to assist in the preparations of the rohirum and to meet him at minas tirith making the trip of roughly 350 miles gandalf arrives at minas tirith in late october 3018 at around the same time boromir arrives in rivendell and holds council with elrond the elf wishing to maintain secrecy of the ring will only state that a company on an important task has headed south and boromir will likely be of best service in his home city gandalf is brought to the throne room of minas tirith to meet with the steward of the city gandalf reveals to denathor his plan for rohan and gondor rohan will ride to minas tirith join with the forces of gondor and ride to the black gate to make war on sauron himself denathor refuses gandalf's plan he has received word that the forces of minas morgul which had attacked us gileth have retreated back to the morgul veil why now should they ride out to face an enemy that has retreated as in the books denathore has used the palantir to learn the truth about aragorn and knows he rides with theoden he answers gandalf in the same manner as in the return of the king do i not know thee mythrandir thy hope is to rule in my stead to stand behind every throne north south or west so with the left hand thou would stews me for a little while as a shield against mordor and with the right bring up this ranger of the north to supplant me but i say to thee gandalf myth reindeer i will not be thy tool i am steward of the house of an arion i will not step down to be the dota chamberlain of an upstart even were his claim proved to me still he comes but of the line of a sildore i will not bow to such a one last of a ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity by this time the ring has a strong hold on gandalf he is no longer concerned with the courtesy of halls and the positions of men enough answered the wizard too long have you sat in the seat of ruling once more gondor shall have its king and by no authority of yours shall he be denied as denethor rises from his seat gandalf wields the combined power of the ring of fire and the one denethor is consumed by flames and is no more with the steward gone gandalf seizes control of the city he orders war preparations to begin immediately in the books it takes the rohirrim five days to travel from dunharrow to minas tirith with less urgency they arrive in around a week after assembling their forces after making battle preparations with aragorn and theoden gandolf leads their combined forces in their march to the black gate they arrive in late november in a coordinated attack the forces of minus morgul attack those of baradur in the days before the nine lead the forces of morgul against their former master as the men of the west arrive they breach the gate to find two decimated armies gandalf orders his forces and the ring rates themselves to attack all the orcs the servants of sauron are to be utterly destroyed gandalf calls forth the dark lord himself from his tower tolkien himself covered this hypothetical scenario in letter 246 one can imagine the scene in which gandalf say was placed in such a position it would be a delicate balance on one side the true allegiance of the ring to sauron on the other superior strength because sauron was not actually in possession and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors sauron descends from his tower to fight gandalf face to face gandalf with his two rings unleashes his full power and is the victor destroying the dark lord at this point amidst the chaos of battle and the defeat of sauron aragorn runs to gandalf offering his assistance to take the ring to mount doom gandalf refuses the ring is mine it shall remain with me and with it i shall protect all middle earth it is the only way no gandalf you cannot keep it says aragorn gandalf comes to a realization aragorn wants the ring for himself or at least that is what he believes he must seize this one opportunity in the aftermath of battle amongst the chaos whether by a nearby ring wraith or by his own hand gandalf kills elisar gandolf grieves the loss of his friend but knows it was necessary to keep the peace and the ring he orders the armies to return to their realms and to spread the word sauron is overthrown and peace is to reign in middle earth to ensure this peace gandalf makes plans to place each of the nine nazgul in strategic positions throughout middle earth peace and order must be maintained at all costs those who resist or break the law will be dealt with severely i'll conclude with another quote from tolkien's letter 246 regarding gandalf's rule gandalf as ringlord would have been far worse than sauron he would have remained righteous but self-righteous he would have continued to rule and order things for good and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom which was and would have remained great gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil it seems i have missed much tell me mithrandia where is my father where's my brother i have stationed your brother in australia he is overseeing the reconstruction of the city your father is dead it seems sauron had poisoned his mind with the use of a palantir my hope is that in his absence you will be of great service to gondor i cannot stay in one city permanently i need only a modest force from you and from theoden for my journey a force whither will you take this force mithrandia much must be set in order to ensure the safety of middle earth i ride to rivendell and lorien rivendo the line of kings has failed boromir i believe it is time for a new line to begin what say you king so there you have it guys my theory on what if gandalf took the one ring he rules over middle earth maintaining peace by brute force a tyrant in a different mold than sauron but all the more tragic as he does great evil in his pursuit of good now obviously there's a lot of conjecture in here and a few things i just did because i thought it was interesting i just couldn't resist denithor being in flames the second time so now i turn it over to you what do you think would happen if gandalf took the one ring let me know in the comments as always i want to say a huge thank you to my patreon supporters including tom de bombadil 19 sky carcass selim rahman jim limber davis s'morezerk and matt schultz thanks so much for watching and subscribing and we'll see you next time on nerd of the rings

Channel: Nerd of the Rings

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Keywords: tolkien, lord of the rings, lotr, hobbit, the hobbit, nerd of the rings, silmarillion, what if gandalf took the ring, gandalf the one ring, gandalf takes the ring, gandalf evil, evil gandalf, gandalf the black, sauron, denethor, theoden, aragorn, boromir, king of gondor, men of the west, history of middle earth, geekzone, gandalf turn evil, gandalf takes the one ring, the one ring, gandalf, gandalf the grey, gandalf's travels, tolkien theory, lotr theory, gandalf theory

Id: U_gFEN-GhiQ

Length: 19min 22sec (1162 seconds)

Published: Sat Jan 16 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/ManyAnusGod]

Sean Bean is alive at the end of a story?

[u/CurlNDrag90]

I found this guy randomly on YouTube a few weeks ago. Every night I try to watch one of his videos. They're not terribly long. He does his research and puts in pretty good effort all around. He's got a 3-part series on Melkor that's 100% worth watching.

[u/BBlasdel]

As amazing as this is as a treatment of the logistics of the end of the third age, and as critical as these kinds of logistics were to the world that Tolkien built, I think that this is missing critical context about the spiritual and magical nature of the ring. What both the one ring, and the ring of fire, support their wielders in doing is both much more concrete and much more nebulous than this suggests. Indeed, the one ring is shown giving its users extraordinary powers of intimidation referenced in the text. How else would a tiny and mild-mannered, if brave, hobbit like Sam terrify the strongest and craftiest surviving orcs of Cirith Ungol? Its magical powers are described explicitly in the text as being connected to the amplification of its wielder's authority, intimidation, and ability to dominate.

Gandalf as a Ring Lord could only be a tyrant using the ring regardless of his profound wisdom because that is all the only thing that the powers of the ring would let him be. By dominating Middle Earth into following his will, regardless of how good that will was, Ring lord Gandalf could only do worse evil than Sauron could hope to. He would rob the peoples of Middle Earth of any hope of signing creation into being in harmony with Eru Ilúvatar by stealing their voice and replacing it with his own. The alternative is presented by the power of Gandalf's ring, Narya, which inspires hope and innate goodness.

One of the central themes of the books is that deception remains at the heart of the power of the ring, even if it is in a more subtle way. The deception inherent to the ring isn't the power the ring has but the power it doesn't have. After all Sauron, for all of his lights and fire and armies, was defeated by a soft, meek, hairy-footed, one meter tall hobbit with his shorter and even more meek hobbit friend. It is a deeply Christian theme, where the One Ring represents the same deception at the heart of the three temptations of Christ - the temptation to be comfortable, the temptation to be secure, and the temptation to be powerful. Giving into the sin represented by the ring would in fact do none of these things, and could only hope to make you as tortured, endangered, and powerless as Mairon the Admirable became when he joined Melkor as Sauron. The deception involves more than just any powers the ring might give you, but the orientation inherent to taking and using the ring, of giving into the temptations of Christ instead of following His example.

Christ's solution to sin isn't strength but vulnerability, turning the other cheek rather than fighting back as men and elves do, surrendering wealth rather than hoarding or even manipulating it as dwarves do, loving others as they are rather than controlling them into what you think they could be as Melkor did, and refusing to see neighbors as means to an end like Sauron does but ends in and of themselves. Whether Tolkien would like to openly admit it or not, the powerlessness of the One Ring is pretty analogous to the powerlessness of the cross to defeat Christ. Melkor couldn't improve the song of creation by singing over others, and Sauron couldn't improve Middle Earth by ruling it. Gandalf, however, could improve Middle Earth by inspiring it, teaching it, and sacrificing for it. In the end, Gandalf's wisdom was greater than Sauron's power.

Indeed, the political situation of Judea around the time of Christ was not that much unlike that of the West in Middle Earth. To any educated observer, the world was clearly coming to an end. The Roman Empire was growing, and Judea was no longer really a client state with an appropriate distance between the Emperor and Judaism but was instead more of a province like any other causing deep problems that didn't have solutions, which pretty soon no band-aid would be big enough for. Statues of Caligula had been recently been placed in Jewish synagogues by force, the benefits of integration with the Roman economy were being very unevenly spread, and the people of Judea were increasingly seeing the Roman collaborators who ruled them as corrupt, sacrilegious, and (almost worse) Greek. They also weren't wrong, and no amount of negotiation could fix the hard truths of the time, rebellion was inevitable. However, a rebellion was also inevitably a disaster. The Roman Empire was near its height, and no matter how well put together, how popular, or how well-led any rebellion was, its downfall would also be a trivial, essential, and lucrative task. The world was going to end, the temple was going to be sacked and desecrated, the wealth of Judea was going to be carted back to Rome to finance the Empire and its obscene building projects, the people of Judea were going to be slaughtered, raped, sold as slaves, and scattered, and there wasn't really anything anyone could do about it. Of course, there were all sorts of solutions, the Sadducees and Hellenized Jews like Josephus did their damnedest to collaborate, the Essenes retreated from society, and the Zealots tried to fight militarily but none of it was ever going to work.

Tolkien makes clear that, to any educated observer, the forces arrayed by Sauron were more powerful than anything the West could realistically withstand in its fallen state. Slaughter, slavery, cultural death, and scattering before an inevitable end of everything the West was, was the only foreseeable outcome. Sarumon's solution to the clear facts at hand is to collaborate, the solution of elves was to seclude themselves, the solution of men was to fight - but none of those solutions had any realistic hope of resisting Sauron. Christ's solution to the oppression of the Roman Empire was radical. Giving up everything you love, your wealth, your family, your security, your comfort, and your life in service to others regardless of what they could do for or to you - radical transformation. It is also meant to be understood as being fundamentally impossible without grace, just like the task of the ringbearer was fundamentally impossible for Frodo to really do on his own without the grace of Bilbo's mercy towards Gollum.

[u/Shenaniganz08]

this guy just gained a new subscriber

this is some top notch content

[u/TievX0r]

The One Ring... is a hell of a drug.

[u/Luca20]

I just watched Lotr extended editions a few weeks ago. This did me good 😌.

[u/dirtyrango]

This guy's videos are dope.

[u/dongman44]

So, the elves were sailing west, right? Why not take the ring into the west for the Valar to destroy? Or take a ship from the Havens, go to a random spot, melt metal around the ring in the weight of like 8,000 pounds, and sink that fucking thing into the middle of the ocean?

[u/[deleted]]

This is awesome, I'm a huge sucker for over-researched totally frivolous tolkein content.

It does, though, feel a little simplistic to say Gandalf would become a utilitarian despot. Sauron was a more powerful being than Gandalf was (at least before his ascendence, I'm a bit rusty on my jrr lore), and an evil fuck from the jump. The One Ring corrupts towards evil, but we see Frodo able to resist its temptations for quite some time, and its main impetus is power. Once Gandalf ruled middle earth, who's to say the ring wouldn't be sated, and just chill?