What If BOROMIR Lived And Took The One Ring?! | Middle Earth Lore

[Music] what if boromir had taken the ring from frodo oh this is a this is a big we get asked this one a lot yeah a lot so this is one of those ones that it's it's like a key moment yeah in the lord of the rings story you've got a man and obviously the end of the third age is heading towards the age of men yes okay this is what we're heading towards now this is that entire turning point because it's demonstrating the corruption of men and how easily they are corrupted yes but not only does baramiya try to take the ring from frodo and fredo escapes but we later see that aragon doesn't have to necessarily look at the scene from the movie right willingly lets frodo go yes he does the exact opposite yeah as well another thing with the just to say with the influence of the ring and in the movies it's slightly different like there's that scene on crowdrest where he picks up the ring and yeah actually has it basically in his hand yeah that doesn't happen in the books so the influence of the ring just being near him is a lot more of a thing uh in the actual story whereas obviously like he never sees it really himself that's one of the things he wants he wants to see it yes i actually have in his hands which he hadn't done before true but going back to the movie i really like the the kind of moment where you see okay yes men are easily corruptable but it's not everyone you know like there are there is still good in men there's still strong will in men who is still good in this world mr frodo exactly exactly but let's say frodo wasn't able to escape and baramiya had taken photo down yes i'm not sure he would have killed him i think if if the ring if the ring influenced him enough if frodo put up enough of a fight he would have the same way that smeagol kills deagle um like they're like best buds out on the out for his birthday and he kills him that's true so there's no reason bothering me wouldn't if frodo wasn't gonna wingingly give it up to him if the ring told him to yes now okay so that's just the starting point for our scenario so baramiya has decided to try and take the ring from frodo frodo has resisted boromir whether intentionally on purpose or not has murdered frodo he's taken the ring from him where do we go from there well okay at this point does borrow me does he a go back to the fellowship be like oh no photo down he slipped and found a walk um or does he run away i think he would run away i don't think i don't think he could go back and face like aragorn or anything if he took the ring no i think at that point it would be heading for the hills yes and back to gondor would be my first bet because you know that's what he wants he wants he wants it as a weapon to use against sauron he wants to take it back home don't you know what he has to do with it as a weapon no but that's but let's look at the sort of i don't know if butterfly effect is the right term here but let's look at the consequences of bombing doing that so one frodo is dead yes now in terms of merry and pippin which is obviously when barmaid doesn't take the ring that he plays a heavy part on that and ends up being killed trying to protect them now the urukai's job was just to take the halflings so yes that doesn't necessarily affect what happens in american pippin they still get taken away and probably sam as well yeah possibly some too yeah i imagine if frodo's gone they're more likely to be together yeah um because sam might potentially go to the river realize photo hasn't gone anywhere go back and then end up in the same circle yeah so mary pippin and sam all captured by the irikai party yes now the three hunters upon i you you could assume straight away that aragorn with his hunting abilities and his kind of he's almost like a sixth sense yeah you know like i reckon if you found frodo's body you wouldn't know what happened yeah see if you buy an urukai blade as this you would you'd be able to tell there was a scuffle there was a fight or lack of fight and yeah he would know but the fight bombing never returns is a big thing so yeah and there's no borrow me a body so yeah what has happened here is pretty obvious and aragorn wouldn't know that barmia isn't falling to a handful of rakai so the three senators have a decision to make do they go after the three hobbits yeah mary pippen and sam or do they go after baramiya and try and take the ring back oh that is a really tough tough situation i think they would go after bother me see my my thought on the matter is they're gonna know that boromir's intentions aren't evil they are corrupted to take the ring but his intentions truly is to protect gondor and use it as a weapon against sauron whether the consequences of that are bad and you know eventually sauron has an easier route to the ring that may be the case but that's not in barmy's mind and it's not an instant no but the issue would be is he's taking the ring so close to someone at this point like but not not through a secret way yeah to the front door no no i agree but i don't i don't think so um boromir would be using it to attack siren it's not as a measure of defense and maybe even as a bargaining chip maybe that's why we don't know exactly what he's thinking but that's why he just wants to save his people yeah i would personally think that they would still go after the hobbits first yeah i could i could see both ways i mean yeah let's say okay hobbits they go after the hobbits if they don't go after the hobbits we we don't meet gandalf no but gandalf is still there yes that doesn't change anything with gandalf so gandalf still saves the hobbits true in a way okay let's say they leave the hobbits they they don't go with the hobbits okay let's just take this an alternate route because it is uh what a scenario it has to be different i mean we're kind of doing we're making it up as we go that's the fun of it this is just a live discussion so you know i mean as well as we're going through this if there's like a point like now like the time code put that in the comments be like ah here i think they would have come this way yeah yeah yeah yeah let us know what you think as we're making decisions tell us how long we are because that likes to happen this is technically one of those you know those books you used to get where it's like say a play through your story or read through your story like you you can take this path all this path we're taking the path where the three hundreds have gone after boromir yes so what that does to the hobbits is pretty much nothing no it's pretty much the exact same scenario yeah they'll end up on the edge of vanguard band will kill the party of eric's they'll run into gandalf yep and then yeah the only difference here is the three hunters and gandalf do not then go together wait i'm trying to work this out on my head now so they wouldn't go to they wouldn't end up in edith yeah um but i do think if gan for gandalf if he got there and realized the three hands had gone somewhere else and we and as he heard from the hobbits what's happened i think he would then basically get on shadow facts and hightail it to try and find them true the difficult part here is oh this is getting tough now guys see this is what we always said we would want to put a lot of thought and effort into it yeah now a lot of these scenarios are difficult because obviously when you when i'm picturing my way through the story now visually i cannot help but see the film yeah i know what you mean and this is the problem with our main visual memory of lord of the rings and representation coming from the peter jackson trilogy is say when i picture the three hundreds in gandalf going to adiras to free theoden from sireman's control yeah i picture the three hundred's taking out all the robots in the background as gandalf walks forward now we don't necessarily know that it happened exactly like that yeah now would gandalf have been able to free theoden without the three hundreds there i think so yeah probably he would have been able to but obviously he would prefer to do it in a way that doesn't reveal as much power for him yeah he wants to do it as secretly and quietly as possible yeah um but you're saying you think gandalf would go to find the three hundreds before you even go into ediress yeah i think there's the scenario might end up saying they ended us as that fall okay but i think he would go further down the line yeah but they would there would be a detour first yeah so the issue now is if we delay the freeing of theoden what happens to the brohan does it fall because they they might not necessarily know about it i think it would it wasn't it works no i think it would i don't think they would they'd be able to do anything in time to set up a defense so basically their defense ends up in header ass as opposed to how it's deep yeah or they don't even have a defense and someone basically it's like gandalf almost goes ah okay bomb in the ring save rohan kind of gotta go towards the ring sacrifice rohan and gondor is where we make our last if sauron gets the ring the whole of middle earth is doomed not just rohan so he takes that hit by rohan i mean they don't even have their king their commander to to you know line up their defense and organize the yeah the defendant of the kingdom so yeah rohan falls in this scenario it does gandalf goes to minas tirith to try and talk attention to barometer on a little side point here if theoden doesn't get freed at any point does like aeomia or urchin brand did they take rohirim away rather than like go down with their king does potentially them do they take a good chunk of rohirrim and go to fight bit by bit throughout rohan as opposed to setting up and just dying because obviously one of the biggest things is the the reinforcements of rohan that comes related to ministerial so if rohan falls there's no reinforcements and then that battle goes differently but i can't see an aomi urchin brand not acting in some form believe it or not against the king when there's under sireman's control aomir knows that he's he's not the king he knows so i'm not sure if he would you know at this point he's been pretty much banished yeah almost so i don't know and how would he even have had word theoden's not sending for his help yeah okay so maybe not anyway but i think erkenberg because he's if i remember he's based in helms deep he's like the the marshall of or whatever the term is the marshal of hell's deep at this point so he's got some forces so i think there would be some kind of reinforcement still but a much smaller amount with a an almighty king in his last moment true so true slightly a weakened row here i guess we still have yeah yeah anyway okay so gandalf has found the three hundreds they've all kind of got together they've confronted boromir in ministerif yeah now the difficult part here is denithor is still steward he's still in charge of boromir yes he also wants the ring to be used as a weapon yes especially now the ring is in close proximity to denethor how does that affect him does he demand the ring from his son i think so yeah that's i mean obviously we know from danathor that he's a very strong world character debatably one of the strongest world characters on the planet at that time the fact that he went toe to toe with the will of sarah for so long and although yes he was getting corrupted he wasn't like he was a lot stronger than boromir in that sense yeah he could literally basically talk to saruman through the palantir but still although being influenced still be him whereas someone like bomb is in close proximity to the ring i said sorry oh did i was my bad any way i've lost my train of thought now i know what you're saying about him being strong-willed yeah but but i think we're going to get a big clash of egos and and dominant characters here and i do think that boromia corrupted as he is he's already murdered a hobbit yeah i think he would kill therefore yeah and family would be like oh no stop it borrow me oh no oh no daddy's dead yeah that's exactly what it would be although familiar at this point is probably still in australia with his ranger battalion that is true yeah so he wouldn't even know he just gets a letter from boromir dad said oh so with some balloons more time for drinking yeah so at this point poor technical yeah at this point yeah boromir is the new steward of gondor yes and he is now in charge of a defense which is something he can do as opposed to danathor who just didn't really yeah so the three henders gandalf arrived to confront the new steward of gondor barmia yes in this situation does argon go into the city oh aragorn would not go into the city i don't know no that's that that's where it gets see this is yeah this is again where all this it just it gets so confusing because yeah you've got to remember algon he's not willing to step in there until he's king obviously minus the houses of healing kind of stuff yeah but yeah well he made an exception for the house of healing outside the gate oh boy good night let the lord of the white land step forth lift justice be done upon him thank you cupcakes bar um yeah i think oh i don't i you look at how aragorn made an exception to step into the white city because of the houses of healing because yes pharma aoe mario needed his help he's willing to make an exception i think this is a strong exception yes you'd probably do in the same way he'd probably like basically cloak up hide hide who he is yeah and just go to the point they need to go to yeah but yeah that would be an interesting moment yeah so the whole of kings down he's yes but he's walking towards the throne aragorn gandalf legolas and gimli as boromir is sat on the steward's chair slouched with the ring around his neck what happens i don't think they come to an agreement i don't think so either now the difficult the thing here is boromir is gonna know there's no way he is gonna take on those four people you can't take on aragon he can't take on gandalf i think if gandalf wasn't there he would probably attempt it attacked it maybe yeah but yeah when mithra and you as they probably know more as um yeah i don't he wouldn't dare no i don't think so so his only means of escaping also at this point this would be his first like probably knowledge that gandalf is still alive oh yes so he might have been expecting three hunters to appear but without a wizard that's very true so he would probably be quite shocked at this point to see gandalf not only back but he's back white that's like that could be a bit like ooh moment because there's a good chance as well at this point barmia obviously he's killed then thought he's there's a good chance he's taking the palace here at this point and gone i can do what my father did kind of thing i can take on someone so there might be some sauron corruption involved here and someone's almost like keeping an eye on all this you never know now what might have happened here is sauron could come under some kind of um agreement with baramiya through false truths and say something on the lines of barmy i will help defend you know i will i will leave gondor alone me and you can rule together yes you can even keep the ring yes you you of gondor if you don't oppose me you can keep the ring yeah obviously that wouldn't be the case but sauron is infamous for just saying what's what needs to be said and if that needs to be said to get boromia to bring him the ring voluntarily without war he's gonna do it someone's not just this someone might also be thinking at this point it's like i could have a tenth break here a borrow me a standard yeah true true so that as a servant like yeah that he he would be amazing to have now the only way bolomir is escaping this scenario is by putting on the ring and turning invisible yes and the issue with that is i believe gandalf can see into the wraith world i think so i think as admirer i'm sure he can see the other side so although the three hundreds would be dumbfounded and confused as to where barami has just gone i'm not sure it would work on gandalf what could be made now okay bear with me so rewind a moment they've they've come in they've gone to come from barmy gandalf stays hooded and disguised in the background they have the argument they stop they the 300 is basically the point where they're going to forcefully take this from bar mia now obviously falsely taking the ring all of the stuff but they do this while it puts on the ring they're all like oh no and then suddenly kind of see you borrow me and then yeah maybe he uses his gandalf magic too like free and theodore but this time he's at the free boromir from that he's done something to he's given by me that even if it's just a moment of clarity mm-hmm where'd bobby and goes no give it up they just need to get the ring away from him that's what i mean to like yeah because gandalf's now back as the white he's more powerful he's closer to matching sauron at this point through his abilities he's been lacked yeah he's been allowed to keep more of his ability so you've seen the fellowship as well as soon as frodo is in uh you know got a bit of distance on barmy and the ring is further away from him straight away he's like what have i done yeah so i think i'm so sorry so so i think gandalf was sent back with the ability not necessarily to go toe to toe not be in one on one but enough to really relieve people bring the light and just give them that moment of going oh no i made a mistake let's change my mind yeah so i think that happens that that is my what happens so they take the ring from borrow me there's no way whether he's using it whether he puts something on or not that they're getting through no even if barmier summons reinforcements and calls his men in i think they would be willing they'd be like oh mithrandia you can see how powerful it is at this moment when he's in full show full display maybe even aragorn could reveal himself at this moment like you sit down i am the rightful king you know sit on your steward chair i'm having the thr i don't think you do that but i think even if he had called his men in that would be aragorn's moment to be like no i am your king yeah you do what i say um so i think either way boromir just tries to fight them single-handedly or tries to escape or whether he calls reinforcements to try and take on the four four hunters i think either way this scenario is settled the reign is removed from boromir and i don't think forcefully i don't think they kill him no i think at this point baramiya is basically back on the good side i think that that's basically like that shutter moment it's gone the veil has gone off and darkness is away from him he is back and now he is actually kind of like prince imrahil was yeah is at this point i guess and so now you've basically got those two leaders of gondor gonna defend ministerius and now golden will wait until after to yeah do what he does so now we've got kind of back in a similar position now we've lost rohan yeah but i think there's still a small urchin brand related force out there this there's still there's still likely to be reinforcements to the other fields but this time the defense is stronger yes i think the defense basically equals that is what i feel now boromir though probably not in charge anymore um it's there and i'm sure aragorn and gandalf would allow him to command forces because i think as well when they said the defense gandalf would stay there and help with the defense as well so you basically got imrahil boromir gandalf setting up defensive minister and because him and his battalion are not going to be wasted and sent away and then i think the three hunters go off for the grey company yes at this point so i think basically all the army of the dead still yeah yeah the iron dead with the great company and then they come yeah basically yeah they they i think they then basically go at speed to that that still happens that and then that kind of ends up as it was they then appear and i think basically what happens next is the same yeah roughly obviously there's quite little differences but the end outcome is the same they are successful at the battle of helena yeah they come out victorious you but you've now got a lack of dying theoden and stuff and yeah yeah yeah well where's erwin i i think she died with yeah they'd i think she would be i think she would die at fade inside yeah um because the other thing as well we got to quickly take a sideways step too is saruman at this point because obviously he would actually um i mean really to see the march against probably still happen and i suppose mary pippen and sam they they would still be there yeah like they would still make gandalf they would have still yeah being retributed i think all that would have been the same yeah um obviously the iokai would have taken out adoras yeah um and stuff and then i guess they would have returned back to try and save saruman yeah but i think the ants would be too much yeah because they would still have heavy losses the euro guy they still they wouldn't like there's not like none of them would die and i think the answer would have been too much yeah um so i think that kind of ends up the same yeah but yeah just the biggest issue we've got now yeah so rohan's fallen but the urukai is still diminished and saruman is still in his tower yes gondor is basically strengthened at this point not weakened because there'll still be some form of reinforcements from the rohirrim with amir and urchin brand pharamia and boromir both together with full strong battalions of rangers and stuff imminent earth but no one is currently heading towards mortals to destroy the ring no this is the issue now is we have we have a ring in ministering with no one really like i might imagine like even for example would maybe put it in the the tombs kind of thing and lock the doors it's like it's there but we don't go near it nobody goes near it because whoever's near it will be corrupted um so then they're kind of back at square one of going who will take the ring this is the tough one i think they maybe even send some yeah i feel like gandalf would still be like hey there's a problem let's have a hobbit yeah that's the problem and i think sam is capable of doing it alone yes because as well sam is he's a lot smarter in the books then is kind of let on especially in the animation films he's made really dumb in this yeah but he's a lot more like you get glimpses of it later on but earlier on he's a bit more cowardly and stuff in the films where i feel like he's a bit more switched on yeah really so yeah i think i feel like mary and pippin would go with him as well yeah i think a lot of people at this point may argue that no sam is only so brave in his journey because he loves frodo and he's protecting frodo but i think that's exactly why he would do it it would be a it would be a forfeit it would be for frodo yeah so so they maybe we'll take the three hobbits now march uh i say march sneak through the black lands and get try and make their way to mount doom i mean most likely it kind of would end up the same way they would end up through the black rounds they would find smeagol but there's three of them now there's three of them and they're not as exhausted not as exhausted and i don't think they would be as sympathetic no towards him so i don't remember at this point if they've let's say hell's defender sorry minister is defended gandalf sends someone to go and bring the hobbits into gondor they're fed they're hydrated they're rested they're informed of their mission so essentially you know the i forgot the name of the chapter but when aomir uh aragorn gamelia last gandalf were all discussing the black gate that becomes a discussion of sending the hobbits through mordor while the blackjack march as well like obviously with gandalf and everyone being there they would they would not be going through past shiloh they would not be getting captured at kiritangal they would not be doing any of that because they were like that's a stupid idea don't do that we'll cause big distraction over here you go over this pathway hill yeah whether it's just the hobbits or potentially like a like a pharah me it goes with them to until they cross the border into multiple yeah and then this is this is your path through the hills yeah then it's on you they get a lift 90 of the way there as well almost just the journey through mordor is still pretty far yeah but you know they're not going to be exhausted yes so when smuggled does try and get involved if he still does they're going to take him out and when it comes time to get into the edge of mount doom we know hobbits are not easily corrupted they have very strong will especially now that they're doing it for their dead best friend really so no not only that but they none of the three of those hobbits have had the time the frodo had to be corrupted by the ring yes so they're pretty fresh we've seen how long bilbo went without being corrupted you see how long photo went without being corrupted these three have had it for a matter of days probably yeah and even then i think they could almost be like because it hasn't been so long because okay you have it for six hours all of it for six like i think that would be a lot more like once they've seen how it affected frodo and others i think there'd be lot more gandalf be like okay look yeah there's a rotor yeah there's a voter like one of you has it for one day then there's someone else and you just pass it so it's a lot everyone gets that weight off for a while yeah so the hobbits they get there while the distraction of the black gate is happening yep the ring is destroyed yep everything ends the same it does now obviously there's a matter of did anyone fall in the battle of minnesota did anybody fall in the battle of the black gate i can genuinely see boromir dying in one of these battles because i can see him sacrificing himself at some point as a kind of redemption arc similar to how he does in the in the fellowship two towers originally i can see him being like i've killed a hobbit i've killed my father yeah it's almost like that he's not willing to i think he would tell him to say a farmer yeah the whole defense is for trying to make up for it but then he's still like i can't live with myself what i did so yeah there will be a situation say even if it's like aragorn is about to get ambushed or farming is about to get ambushed and then he's like no this is he has that moment but saving yeah family or aragorn like the future of yeah gondor instead it would likely be aragorn i think yeah saving his king yeah sacrificing himself for his king then found me he goes to rage mode turn super saiyan yeah you know here yeah like one of them dies in the yeah uh strategy battle game yeah it would be something like that so yeah so then i think that basically ends up as was um aomi ends up being the king in rohan yeah aragorn supplies lots of um resources to help rebuild rohan and they remain as the two kingdoms remain great allies the rest continues the same the only thing that doesn't happen is frodo is now dead yep boromir is dead just the same and theoden died earlier along with eowyn so farmer has a bit of a sadder ending because he doesn't get married to eowyn no but yeah something doesn't get his glorious um last charge kind of movement because i can't remember the exact wording but like when he charges they say he'd look like is it one of the valar maya or this is what happens when we try and do this without like anything in front of us i think you're thinking of fingolfin when he charges no no there's a moment when theater is charging they're like it's in the book i can't remember that exactly but yeah it's like he doesn't get that moment of being like i am worthy of my name of my father's of being king which he had always worried about before that moment but what we do get instead is we get ao mia lead in the charge yes and that is almost just as epic you know uh okay yeah that's our story okay it's funny because there was a lot of differences but we came to a similar yeah i think i think at the end i mean at the end the end's gonna usually be the same i don't think it was a big enough difference i see there's big enough difference the main character basically dies it's a pretty big difference but what's funny about doing this is that was honestly 100 we didn't discuss this at all i was 100 off the cuff yeah now i think this is very similar to how tolkien wrote as well when you know the characters and i feel like we know the characters very well you don't have to write the story you just yeah it's okay to see what the characters would do yeah you just go oh in this situation they would obviously do this yeah so then that's your point and the next point and it just yeah it just goes on from there because you can tell there's a point at the beginning we may be a little bit slower getting into it yeah and how's it going it's like okay then this then it's the next yeah yeah that was really fun i actually enjoyed that a lot more than i thought i was going to i've been really like apprehensive about doing these wattage scenarios but that was fun it was i really hope you enjoyed this i hope you liked where we went with the story yep and hopefully you guys are up to seeing more of these make sure you let us know if you are yes no one says anything we just won't do it because we're doing these videos for you guys yes bye guys

Channel: The Broken Sword

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Keywords: The Broken Sword, History of the Ages, History of Middle Earth, The Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Rings Lore, Middle Earth Lore, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, Tolkien Lore, what if boromir had survived, what if boromir lived, what if boromir killed frodo, what if boromir took the ring, what if boromir went back to minas tirith, what if boromir was alive, what if boromir had his shield, lord of the rings what if boromir, boromir and faramir, lotr boromir

Id: RsS4AHLgYrk

Length: 29min 32sec (1772 seconds)

Published: Sun Jul 04 2021