What If ARAGORN Did Not Summon The ARMY OF THE DEAD? | Middle Earth Lore

[Music] this is completely off the cuff 100 improvised we haven't discussed this beforehand we've picked the topic and we are going to just discuss what we think will happen and how the story will turn out yes yeah too fair we actually picked the topic as we were setting up the camera so that shows how little time we've had to prepare yeah so i'm assuming you've seen by the title of the video but today's topic today's discussion is going to be what if aragorn never summoned the army of the dead yes now this is an interesting one because the army of the dead or the oath breakers as you may know them are kind of a topic of controversy yes they were one of the more altered aspects for the movies um but we will be talking about the book what if that's the scenario we're in we're not we're not following peter jackson's vision right now no although i think if we were it would have an even bigger yes yeah we'll give it a brief mention at the end but yeah that's not where where our decisions are going to be going from okay so let's go from the beginning so let's set the scene at this point in the story everything has gone as we know it the three hunters are with the rohirim gathering their forces to try and reinforce gondor yes um don't forget in the book we have the grey company as well as ella dan and elro here the twin sons of elrond yes they are all their accompaniment accompanying aragon yeah and in the actual story as a huge group say 30 grey company aragorn legolas gimli elliot and elroy here all head off to um summon the army of the dead yeah now the main purpose of that is for them to like to sort of intercept the courses of umbra right yes it's basically to stop them being able to reinforce the [Music] silence forces they've basically been keeping a lot of gondor's armies occupied and yeah they basically if those reinforcements can get to the battle then they just don't have the numbers to match yeah it's truly a lost cause if that happens so the idea behind going to the army of the dead is to stop those and in the books it's through fear essentially that the army causes most of the courses of ambar to abandon ship and they drown or they swim back to where they came from yeah and then obviously the rangers of the north along with three henders an hour here they arrive at the battle of perena to back up gondor yes so i mean yeah because to be fair it's worth mentioning that in the book it's very much uh a fool's hope um that this is actually going to work which is why argonne doesn't really like tell anyone or tell like um theoden and the rohirim what he's actually doing because although there's all these rumors and story basically legends of these of this dead army as such nobody really knows that they're there for sure so this is very much uh he could just go and end up making himself unavailable for the battle for no reason yeah so in our story aragorn has decided to take the thought that this army of the dead doesn't exist and i'm not yet king maybe even if they do exist my powers won't have any effect and they won't follow me yeah so they stay with the rohirrim now in terms of the time that the rohan reinforcements arrive doesn't change between our version and the real version yeah they arrive at the same time the only difference being they have aragorn legolas gamingly and co however in the actual story when aragorn went with his his group to some of the army of the dead the army's dead then not only stopped the reinforcements of the courtiers of umbra arriving at pelano but they freed many of gondor's southern fiefdoms yep to also back them up so now the biggest difference is we don't just have reinforcements on top of reinforcements with an extra army of seven yep gondorians arriving to face and already not reinforced army from mordor yep but now we have reinforcements without the gondorian reinforcements plus mordor is now reinforced so that's a big difference yes and this was basically the whole reason that uh danathor decided the best bet was to burn himself alive was because he had been shown by sauron in the palantir that these corsairs of embark were on their way so he's like well if they're coming as well there's no chance yeah so and that tells you just how many of them there are and how much of a difference they would be expected to make in this battle i mean we're basically stopping southern gondor from helping at all so that shows on again how many that would have been yeah so now we've got an extra weak gondol slash rohan and extra strong forces of sauron yeah now taking all that into consideration i think the route that this war this battle is gonna go is the wrong way and it's going to be essentially opposite to what we see in the actual story although the ranges of the north and aragon legolas gaming would make a difference they are only 30 or so warriors yeah they're not going to take on an entire army so having that on board i think the forces of good are pretty much wiped out here yeah i yeah i think obviously i think they'll take a lot with them but yeah i can't see how they win this without with less of an army against an even bigger army there's just not even with the leadership it's just not gonna happen now the only kind of point we have to consider at this point is what part does gandalf play because he is at the end of the day he's in a star he's a maya he's extremely powerful and he is almost the polar sauron yeah he's the opposite of xyron so i suppose what do you think about in the in the book they never actually the foster model never get inside the walls of minister that doesn't happen in the book they break the gates gandalf confronts the witch king and then the rohirrim arrive which takes them all back out onto the field so now they've gone back out onto the field they've dealt with the rohingya once their reinforcements right now they come back to the gate pretty much yeah so i think at this point the actual which king gandalf showdown probably happens so are we assuming in this story that the witch king hasn't fallen to erwin and mary that's true i think there's a good chance not because so many extra bodies means it's so unlikely for the same things to happen yeah there's a whole extra army there that you throw into the mix now like would the witch king even be as involved realistically when the reinforcements of ambar he probably goes okay they've got this i can go back and deal with the wizard yeah that i think that's quite likely i don't think he'd be worried like i think reality theoden might die anyway yeah by the hands of someone else um i think the difference in numbers at this point is so vast yeah they basically just run through the reinforcements yeah as in mortal runs through good reinforcements um now the difference is if the witch thing does survive that and does move on past mary and eowyn who have most likely fallen at this point and he faces gandalf gandalf i think would beat him yes one-on-one yes so whether we say that glorfindle's prophecy here is wrong or whether gandalf isn't considered a man well he's not is he that that's kind of what a lot of it was always thought is he does fulfill that prophecy as well so yeah so we'll say gandalf defeats the witch king but then how powerful is gandalf can he really stand up for an entire army i don't neither do i no i think he has his moment and then is just fight to the death but it's to the death it is to the death so sadly our white wizard falls at this moment in time after courageously taking on the witching of angmar and probably a couple of hundred orcs by himself we'll just give him a grand fall like he's epic i think at the end he brings them all inside the walls and he pulls down ministering on top of the ball he takes himself out but he takes 90 percent of them with him yeah he does something epic the whole mountain just brings it down on their head i think yeah well it would be his last stun so similar to how he was against the balrog he wouldn't any longer have like that fear of displaying his full power no so he displays his full power and takes out a lot of them but falls simultaneously unfortunately so did by gandalf for the second time uh now the biggest issue here is we still have two hobbits working their way through mordor yes but there's a massive army of orcs still standing in the way and this time we don't have the men of the west to distract them and take them away so i think this also leads to frodo and sam also being captured in mordor yeah and taken to barador and i think sauron regains the one ring yes i don't think there's any way of stopping them at no this point the only uh kind of wild card here is gollum um that's true i mean for someone like gollum i can picture he would more just stand back and wait just wait and see what happens i don't think he would if someone basically came and actually took the ring because i was in the book as well sauron does have a body he can physically go and do stuff so i think gollum wouldn't dare no take the ring off him so i think he basically wait in the shadows and maybe hope the song loses the ring once more just how terrified of sauron golem is after gollum spent time basically being tortured immortal his fear of the dark lord is pretty big so i don't even think he'd risk you know trying to steal the ring from sarah and i think once frodo and sam who he sees is potentially easier victims to manipulate or to best in some way i don't think he'd risk it with you know a few thousand orcs that are trying to take the ring to sauron so if sauron gets to one ring there are no major characters to stand in his way yeah i mean the elves are already leaving so yeah i mean at the end even if the same situation happens in the war in the north where the good guys win and survive once those reinforcements that have taken out the south come up then yeah they're going to fall as well so you've got to remember just how many dwarves and men from dale all fall at the battle of dale so even after beating the eastern and orc army they they are so weak that if the armies from ministerith then went up to the north and took them out it's easy picking so once sauron's regained his full strength who's really going to stand in his way so then we're then left with a dark middle-earth almost post-apocalyptic in some areas of the world almost like other places on the planet right now yeah very dark very sad very scary yeah so there's not really a good end to this one no this is a depressing one yes all of the characters we love die yeah so as much as people hate the army of the dead turns out they're quite important yes they are now in the movie yes i feel like it's not neces it is a bigger point in the movie because how the army dead just move through minister i think just they kill everything yes they're not really that's the biggest difference is in the book they are more ghosts they can't physically touch and kill someone they just instill fear that's their weapon so yeah they could run around minister if they just can yeah do a lot with it what really even happens to the orcs just run away i i don't know i don't know i don't want to talk about the movie army yet but that's bringing this uh what-if scenario to a close and it's depressing it's sad but having said that i would really be interested in seeing an actual post war of the ring middle earth with sauron being victorious like what would that look like what what would he enforce onto middle earth i think he'd be stood there with a blonde wig he just he just sauron's whole point is he thinks that there needs to be control over middle earth right and he sees himself as the one to do that so in still order yeah is the way basically like to think yeah he doesn't think that men elves dwarves hobbits should all have this free will where they can go about their business and do what they want he thinks they need to be you know put into control and there'd be some order to the entire world and he wants to do that and i think he would i think he would put all of middle earth to be no more rohan gondol he'd be all sauron world that's what he'd call it like disneyland but not as nice xyron yeah the end the end it's um yeah i don't think we missed anything in particular here like the dwarven armies were too weak the owls were leaving yeah they troubled themselves yeah they probably would have left quicker so the obviously the only other thing we could uh take into consideration is would sauron decide to go west i don't think i don't even get there really no i don't think he is and uh i don't think he's stupid enough to believe he could win that no i think if he can roll over his land that's it that's fine he doesn't he doesn't need the entire planet as such he just wants middle earth yeah okay yeah that was fun just like the last one was um let us know what you guys think would have happened in that scenario if aragorn didn't go and summon the armies were dead to fulfill their oath what would happen are we way off or do you think we're along the right sort of lines did we miss any details let us know in the comments down below uh okay thank you all so much for watching hope you have a good good day and we will see you next time

Channel: The Broken Sword

Views: 22,120

Keywords: The Broken Sword, History of the Ages, History of Middle Earth, The Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Rings Lore, Middle Earth Lore, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, Tolkien Lore, what if aragorn stayed, what if aragorn failed, what if aragorn did not take the paths of the dead, what if the army of the dead, what if the army of the dead did not come, what if aragorn was too late, what if gondor lost, what if the king of the dead said no, what if sauron won

Id: P5UEpLhkugI

Length: 14min 36sec (876 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 05 2021