We Should All Be Vegan | Change My Mind Part #2

as a result of you eating that animal you do good with that energy that the animal gives you I think that animal wants to give you that energy because because you're aware the cameras filming you so I'm here today I was at King's College and I believe that you know in this world especially as you know the way we're progressing we should all really be going vegan what about your opinions and thoughts on that I think you might have a point in terms of the fact that the food industry of this world today is modern was completely unacceptable and it's just completely unethical but if you're saying we should be vegan as a matter of principle yeah as in like we should not eat animals per se I don't quite agree I think if if you had a farm for instance and if you were to read the animals in a humane manner I think I think in fact that's what then most of all like just in the same way that you know Tigers eat da I think we have a not a right per se but I mean we we will create it to eat chickens for instance you've touched on a couple of points and so I want to break them down and go through them individually the first thing you said is about the concept of like a humane farm right and I want to know how do you how do you kill an animal humanely preferably with a sharp knife and preferably right across the jugular veins and what is the word humane mean what's like the definition of humane I guess the definition of humane is especially in regards to keeping animals I'd say the way in which to raise them to the slaughter right so so I I wouldn't support like you know keeping animals in cages and things like that by rather you don't have them roam free you know I don't live their life and and when it's time when it when it's time for them to be ten or when you need to eat then and you got to eat that but if like we take in the West you main and what's happened there is you've applied it in a situation so you've seen this is kind of my interpretation of humane for this situation well what about just like an objective dictionary definition of that words what does it mean do you think well I suppose it just means well humane derivative of human to be human something that's natural it means I do go about well for me a human is not somebody who's you know you don't live life to just slug it out and to just get money power and that's not what it's about it's about live your life in the best way possible to do good and and to to promote good and to tell at is to not to not do evil that way that's what it means to be humans along with you know other other things that just come natural to to to humans and to me and not to you eating animals will be one of those natural humor humor things you said in the pursuit of kind of like doing good and I think I think that's a really good thing I think the dictionary definition is pretty much along those lines it says to show or have compassion or benevolence so to do good and to avoid evil but do you not think that to take the life of an animal if we don't have to is an active I don't say evil cuz that implies that you're evil but it's not an act of good if it's not unnecessary acting if it's unnecessary that's true my sometimes in in living a human life and in doing activities and in being a productive person I tend to concede that it is necessary so when in your day-to-day life is it necessary well I wouldn't actually I think like but I I wouldn't say that I'm the most we all have faults right you know and I would say I'm also guilty I think because I eat I definitely eat more meat than I should I'd say more me than I should I don't think I should refrain from meat all like full stop all meat forever but I think that maybe you like considering the way that I mean I mean if I had a farm then sure that's fine you know but if if you want to be like ethically sound I'd say you know once or twice a week I think would be fair the thing is you yourself said that to take the life of an animal unnecessarily was a bad thing but then you yourself said that well you didn't say it but you pretty much implied that you don't have to eat animals in the day to day basis but then but then you you kind of counteract that by saying that we all have faults no now do you think the fact that we all have faults provides us justification to then do bad things no no yeah that's true well let me rephrase that we all have faults so for instance if I eat meat everyday or if I I passed by the homeless man and not give him my extra change those those things are false you know and uh I'd say that I say that yeah like like I said to 12 twice a week I think would be fair I mean it depends on what you do really I mean if you're a guy who has to like I mean if you can't expect like like a construction worker to not II mean because it's not is he's gonna need that energy I think you can get some energy from plants and but I'm not I'm not so sure okay I'm not so sure that just I don't know I think why not respect plants as well like that's that's my take as well you know all living things you know not just living things really like to me you know even rock sometimes if you like everything has a has a form of spirit and I think you look you should respect everything as as a form of creation and animals deserve our respect so do plants I'm not trying to say I'm just saying I don't know I think there's there's a way to kill an animal respectfully that's what I think I think that if you were to kill an animal and and as a result of the energy you get from that animal you do harm then you are at fault then then then then I think yeah you shouldn't eat it all in fact you know you should what are you doing with your life but if you do if you eat food and as a result of you eating that animal you do good with that energy that the animal gives you I think that animal wants to give you that energy because because animals in the sense they don't have free will and I think they know that they're a lower form of being but when when they give you that energy they become a higher form of being and if you do good of that I think they'd be very happy with that that's why I think so there's a few points made there's less simple so let's just summarize so you believe that an animal would like would be happy to have their life taken from them if the person who killed them used the calories they got from their meat to then be a good person yes right and and and is that is there any kind of scientific foundation for that or is that or would you said purely subject you there's a completely spiritual point of view completely spiritual point of it okay okay so now you will come back to this but you've raised an issue about plants I actually want to touch Liske I think it's quite interesting an interesting thing so you said you know we should respect lands on you and I know I fully I fully agree for me veganism is is it's not simply not harming non-human animals it's more about trying to live in a more symbiotic harmonious relationship with the planet okay great so we agree on that point which is good so the issue that we have you know looking globally okay exactly the issue looking globally is we currently grow enough food to feed you know between 10 and 12 billion people but the food that we grow we feed to livestock animals so it takes up to 16 kilograms of plants to produce up to one kilogram of of meat that meat bean beef and then lambs about 12 and it kind of goes down proportionally but so I think that if we want to live and we want to respect the life of plants we should also be vegan because by being vegan you're responsible for less plants being used you're responsible for less rainforest been destroyed or responsible for less habitats being destroyed so if we truly want to live in a spiritual alignment I feel I feel that taking life come to a kind of juxtapose of the attitude of spirituality I agree with what you said about symbolism by the fact that we have to live in accordance with what is sustainable really right and but I don't I think I disagree with the idea that you have to be vegan in order to be sustainable and to respect symbiotic relationships I mean I'm from Malaysia and we have we have lots of rainforests there and there's indigenous tribes they're resolved and I think you'd be hard-pressed really to find an English in Australia doesn't need animals and and and to be fair to the indigenous peoples and to people who actually do live in the state can who can we say even if you are vegan and you live in this modern day can you say that you you live a more sustainable life in them I think I think that's I think that's a really beautiful point that you make and I think what I would say to that is I'm not saying that I can't say that I live more sustainably because I obviously don't but I think it comes down to that issue of necessity right and so these people who live indigenously and they kill animals they so probably because they have to to survive and so for me the morality of veganism comes down to that idea of necessity so here in London you know we're in the middle of central London there is Lee is no necessity for us to consume animal products in the middle of a Malaysian rainforest yeah you commit the argument can be made differently but fundamentally for you and I in this present moment we don't have that necessity because we don't have that necessity I don't therefore feel that we can justify the action of taking life and and use that word respect but for me to take someone's life when they don't need to die is the opposite of respect so say say I say there was a dog walking down the road now and I killed that dog I hate that dog and then from the energy I got from eating that dog I then went and and I said you know gave money to a homeless man or I helped someone you know who's blind cross the road you know it was something like that just that therefore justify the action of killing that dog and was it respectful to do so I like you said about the Malaysian thing right like if it was your only source of energy then yeah it's completely acceptable but yeah but for you and me it's not and I mean they you got a like I don't I don't know how far I mean you're right I mean you know your ethical friendships completely fan there's I can't say anything really to to to to justify the world that we're living in and the city that we're living in but I'm not so sure that the city we're living in is completely based on the idea of you know the fact that we meet eaters is what's causing all all this trouble in society really and and I mean you have a good point you know I'm not saying you don't have a good point but there's so many things there's so many illnesses in society and I'm not saying that I'm not trying to I'm not trying to play down your your cause and it's good cause but I'm not so sure it it that's that it's that it's the it's the crunch of the issue you know I think it's um for me it's it's human beings you know I mean this is something that just happens I mean we've been suffering of it's the moment we've it will create it all right like greed and envy and jealousy hatred you know fear this idea of that you're better than others you know as do you think that it's wrong to think that you're better than others yes I think that it's wrong we're the thing that we're better than others I mean and when I say our I do mean human beings because there is a distinction between forms of life and so okay all right let okay I'm gonna lead with that okay what what is the distinction between us and and other non-human animals free will and me and you we're talking about this we're talking about the concept of life we're talking about how our race and I mean always the human race can live a more ethical approach to life animals don't think about that we do but they could they can have a conversation but that's where I disagree I mean they do they don't have the intellectual that's true but they just they don't have that that human spirit I think like that that that we really don't know then they would have that dog spare all that big space you have spirits and I'm not saying they don't yeah but I think for them it's like things are just known and for us we've got to think things through and we our mind and our spirit our heart it's like innately connected but for them it's like they just know they know that their place in the world and they know how to how to deal with things right and but for us it's different I think it's just the differentiation there is that we have cognitive abilities that non-human animals maybe do not it's not just that it's we have a responsibility we have the biggest responsibility of all species we're not fulfilling the response what we let that responsibility down release our responsibility our responsibility is to be good good caretakers of the world and so we have to and when I say good caretakers we have to live that like we were talking about symbolism just now we have to live sustainably with the world around us so after raising animals living sustainably responsibly and respectfully or is it undermining our responsibility and actually not being cared a to the planet but if I do in the opposite lotta houses the way that they are in Western society and really most a lot lots of societies in the world I bet that that is unjust fiber and that and when when we're talking about that I agree with not we're not doing our responsibilities bow to beetle animals not in a place of slaughter like I mean that's the thing if you were good if you were to go to like you know Eastern European farms and you have traditional Shepherds and people who actually yeah they are necessarily true thing right for me I think that whatever like that's why this export import stuff is you know when the economics gets involved it gets a bit more confusing you know but what I think is that you know if you have a farm and if you just having a farm and you feel you're feeding your family and the surplus from that is being used to feed your community nothing wrong like that's why I think when you when you make it into a business for profits that's when it's really that's when it really gets gets difficult but you it but you think is if people want to consume these products there's a demand to be met and if there's a demand that has to be a supply so you yourself say these things but when you go and buy a product you're going against your own morals but if you're saying this is wrong but I'm still gonna buy it my excusive binary we're all flawed I don't think that I don't think that being flawed justify his bad behavior - I agree and I'm and I guess we we all have to have take some steps in changing you know okay I'm trying to so what steps you gonna take to change as a result of this I'm definitely gonna eat less meat probably not gonna be completely vegan i think i i i would rather have like milk from i hate this idea of you know homogenized and pasteurized milk like it's disgusting actually when i see what's going on like what most of the milk is like person like they burn it so that all like it's yeah yeah but like for me i think that i mean you can't see that like that's where I disagree you can't see that there are there aren't farmers who doing things sustainably that's for me that's the main difference with me in you now I think there are some humans who who who go against that animalistic desire in themselves to do forget to think that oh you know prophets the only way to live life and and they actually know that oh you have to actually be live in a symbiotic relationship with the beings around you and to and to live sustainably really and I think there are humans around there and I think we should encourage these humans and I and I and I and and that's why I figure this the organic movement is a good thing for instance the word symbiotic represents kind of a a circle of cooperation right an interchangeable system where each part of it is responsible and mutually involved okay so do animals freely and willfully walk themselves to a slaughterhouse or are they taken there against their will mmm that's the thing I think it's some animals are different right like I mean if you were to keep a tiger and a tiger and you're gonna eat the tiger that's its that's you're doing something against their nature but if you will for instance keeping a goat or a cow or a chicken those our livestock and that now they are life it's no it's not I say it's more like okay why do human beings live in cities why do Tigers live in jungles and why do goats and cows because obviously if they were to be released in the wild without humans to protect them they're not gonna be able to take care of themselves so humans live in cities because we want to tigers live in jungles because because it's their nature but animals live in farms because they're enslaved and we forced them to do so because we make them they're enslaved and we force and we breed them in we domesticated them to the point where they have to rely on us about companionship and how they and we it's just not my killing but by not cheating them well killing I think that was there was the agreement I I think that the agreement between who who agreed well they did to the cows agree to have a knife pulled across their throat okay that's why I said the human being is a higher animal in the sense that we have to know what well they didn't they don't agree with the knife across the thing but I think you'd be you'd be how you'd be surprised you know there there are some instances there are some videos of like animals and humans hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo and when I say humans I mean the farmers who live well of these animals and who who when when they do slaughter them they don't need anybody else by themselves like it's just a human and a cow and you know usually I mean I don't know if you've seen a slaughter before but usually when they do slaughter and it's it's really sad to see them slaughter you'd have like six people trying to push the cows out and you know that's when you know it's like okay this guy this cow is Kelly it's not one this was sometimes I've seen on videos that sometimes the human owner and they've had a good relationship presumably the humanists named the animals well he actually just you know he holds down with one hand and and and you could you can see the animal just laying down willfully saying you know trust yeah I'm ready I'm ready to go he's no he's like no I know and he he put like his hand on the neck just to to to pretend like it's a knife right and and animal he didn't like he wasn't panic he was he was ready to go because he's trusted because he trusts him so if I if I have a relationship of trust with someone and why would I ever presume they're gonna do something wrong to me and if now that car has no comprehension that the the the slaughterhouse or the disagree that killing is its equals wrong if you're killing for no reason for instance of you ecology and an elephant or a tiger but if you want to eat them not yeah but if you want to eat them that is reason so you can kill any animal as long as you want to eat them yeah if I rescued a Labrador from a shelter would I be then justified to cut that throats and eat them I said something some animals have different natures and when I when we speak about livestock they're meant to be eaten just the same way that wheat and potatoes are meant to be eaten why are dogs meant to be eaten dogs are not meant to be thin because actually dogs really they're really actually meant to take care of those who who who wish to be eaten right like you mean you have dogs traditionally our Shepherd shepherd animals and onions none there use they know they use to help that help the humans take care of these animals so okay dog has a use to humans over them food what about say a rhino a rhino serves humans no purpose are we then just try to kill them and eat them it's not in the rhinos nature to we're not in the we're not we're not in the we're not how do I say this okay a lion is meant to eat a zebra and so if we were to go in and eat the lion or the zebra we'd be messing with messing about with things but if but the coat and the cow and the chicken they are and I know you disagree of this but they're in our food chain directly in our food web and it's and it's and we have to eat them I know it doesn't say we have to eat them but there but it's just a five for us to eat I'm just in the same way that is justify for Tiger to eat a sweet why does it tired Tigard is an eater cow because it's not I mean the thing is if the cow was there the tiger will eat the car because the tiger can't think about that this stuff but we can and I think we have a responsibility to eat animals that are meant to be eaten bias and who decides who decided that they were meant to be eaten by us who decided that ethereal being or was it a cultural thing why do we eat pigs but not eat dogs but in China they dogs okay but white so why do you eat cows and eat chickens but not eat dogs but in China they'll eat dogs and in India they won't eat cows why is this certain different areas of the world eat some animals but don't you others yeah because because human beings are they have different different ways of looking at the world but but if you're if your claim or your rationale for eating certain animals is that's their place in nature then why is that not universal across the world and it's only in this country in a few other countries where that's the case it's a universal truth that it should operate globally yeah but I mean I think it's I mean it's pretty universal I mean it's not super universal but there are there are there are similarities I think I mean I wouldn't say it's universal but I mean there are similarities but surely it's a cultural thing right [Music] you eat this animal because you were born in this country you believe and you know this philosophy because you were born in that area of the world no no it's so it's a different way of looking at the world and and I think you'd be surprised that there are a lot of similarities if you think it's completely based on culture you have radically different situations but but but but but when you look at the cultures you see that it's it's pretty it's not I mean I think you'd be more surprised at the similarities and the differences I mean if you keep focusing on the differences then you and you and you see you think everything is wrong tell me the Salama tell me the similarities up I mean it's obviously you know tigers and lions are wild animals and an animals like cows and and goats and chickens and pigs are alive domesticated and and animals like dogs and cats meant as pets and companions and I I don't think I think you'd you'd be hard-pressed to find that things are different in different places they are in China they eat dogs in India they don't eat well a lot of people don't eat cows in China they they eat dogs because there's nothing else to eat pig some chickens and ducks and cows we have lots of people and it's hard for them to to keep out of things no seriously it's a tradition they dogs gets traditional that's why we llama Easter and I'm saying that it's okay that's fine and okay that could be the tradition that they eat dogs and that for them that's that's the nature is it moral because its traditional I'm not saying it's immoral not to eat dogs you know I mean clarify that it is moral to eat dogs as immoral to eat dogs it depends on where you I mean like you said right I mean it depends I mean you got a so it's cultural yeah it's cultural I guess I should Cole should dictate morality um [Music] culture shouldn't dictate morality but morality is something that we all is universal right morality is universal we'd hope so we'd hope so Universal and and I mean I'd be hard-pressed to find veganism as a as something that's Universal but the the belief of not harming others we would say is a good moral code or a bad moral codes do not inflict unnecessary suffering if you don't have to it's a good moral code but I mean so then you juxtapose what you believe to be a good moral code picking flowers no yeah why because because flowers don't feel pain or have a consciousness or essentially think can you tell me differently I don't know if they feel pain or not I mean I'm not a flower now you know in a nice way thank you I'm not so sure you know I mean it's all I'm trying to say and I have to go soon but I'll just I'll just end this with the idea that you know human beings we have to go back to our nature and our nature is to be good and it's and it is to be compassionate and and when it comes to the subject is need you're right I don't think we should eat it unnecessarily but I think to have seen completely from the eating of meat would be would not be natural to the human to the human to the human being and and and and I think there is a more ethical approach to this and I think that maybe somewhere in the middle is the right approach I think I tend to I tend to always side with moderation I appreciate you saying that and I just wanna leave you this may be final point I think that sometimes we confuse what's natural with what we've always done or a habit that we've you know committed for a long time and so I don't disagree with you that we've been doing you know consuming animal products for a long long time but I don't think that provides the immoral justification for it just because we've been doing it for a long time now you you said before about not viewing others is better than you know is you yourself as better than others and and that's how that's how I feel about you know being vegan and I used to agree view that that applied only to humans but actually when we look at a lot of the systemic problems that we have within our society it comes for that very foundation that we view some life is different to others and so if we extended our compassion to the lives of say chickens and cows and pigs then we can no please no the only thing I'm saying when we I say that humans have a it's a different sort of thing I just mean that we have a bigger responsibility in this that because we have our free will and because we have this the spiritual nature in us to choose between good and to choose between evil and to think about about this you know these these concepts that these things obviously can't think about you know like what's the meaning of life what's the point of it all you know is there a god isn't there a god it's good and evil something that changes depending on culture or is it something that's that's that's you know that's universal and real forever from the end from the beginning to the end you know that and the fact that these animals can't think about these things it just means we have a bigger responsibility and to look after them that's true and I that's just where this I mean that's where I disagree we're under on the on the idea of you know what what it means to look after animals and to look after each other and I don't know I mean if I'm looking after so if I said you have to look after I I'm more noble than you I need quiet okay and I hope that you will look after me describe what your responsibilities of looking after me would look like yeah you're okay I wouldn't kill you obviously thank you I know that's what you were trying to do here with me and in regards to animals but I don't know I think if you would just to stop eating animals completely I'm not so sure that you'll be able to feed mankind responsible men as well just as well to animals and I'm really sorry I really need to go soon yeah and I don't know I think I get I get where you're coming from so just last point just so you know the system that we have in place now is so unsustainable and the food distribution is so poor that we can't feed every mouth that we have with the current food system that we have and the reason we factory farm is because the only way to meet the demand and so if we revert back to the systems of farming you're talking about people won't be able to eat meat anyway because it wouldn't be economical or environmentally sustainable I mean you might be right but I haven't seen the stats on that by I mean considering how much food we waste you know how much food we waste so I mean consider how much food we waste I think I think that there there there there we could decrease supply and still feed everyone in the world I think in my opinion but I don't know if we were to completely eliminate despy of animals I'm not so sure you know I don't think we have enough land like you know to grow rice into grow potatoes animal agriculture uses 45 percent of stove ice-free lines okay anyway so just just to summarize very quickly I believe that what you say follows a line of of very logical thinking but I feel that you get to a point where that will you become morally inconsistent where you say it's not it's wrong to kill it if it's unnecessary however it's acceptable it's only a couple of times a week but if it's romantic cooks is unnecessary that is just an objective reality if somebody if you do a little bit or a lot it's still wrong like murder is wrong if you do if you kill one person or a hundred people and sure killing one person is better than killing 100 but it doesn't make that action morally justifiable I'm just not saying that that's why we're that's where I disagree with the fact that killing in itself is morally unjustifiable for me it's how you how you kill them and how you take care of them before you kill them they're morally unjustifiable in today's day and age and I think there is a way to kill them that is morally justifiable and that's all I'm trying to say made pleas and blessings of allah be upon you thank you you've given me a lot of food for thought and you know hopeful that in the political hopefully it's not from me you know but and not quite but i think i really do appreciate where where he's coming from in LA I mean at least I mean at least you're not one of these guys who just don't think about these things I'm right back at you thank you for the automatic conversation have a great day you

Channel: Earthling Ed

Views: 81,799

Keywords: earthlinged, earthling ed, vegan, veganism, why, be, go, earthlings full movie, activism, debate, ethics, morality, discussion, change my mind, steven cwoder, animal rights, animal rights activism, street interview, street activism

Id: FlorUfyPso0

Length: 29min 56sec (1796 seconds)

Published: Wed Oct 31 2018