IT'S NICE TO SEE EVERYONE HERE THIS EVENING. I'M LYNETTE CLEMSON AND I'M DIRECTOR OF WALLACE HOUSE HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN. WE RUN TWO PROGRAMS THOSE HERE IN ANN ARBOR ARE LIKELY FAMILIAR WITH THE KNIGHT WALLACE FELLOWSHIPS FOR JOURNALISTS HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY. WE BRING A GROUP OF ACCOMPLISHED JOURNALISTS HERE EVERY YEAR FOR AN ACADEMIC YEAR OF IMMERSIVE STUDY LEER AT THE UNIVERSITY TO SHARPEN THEIR JOURNALISM SKILLS AND MOVE THEM FORWARD IN THEIR CAREERS. IT IS THE OTHER PROGRAM THAT WE RUN THAT BRINGS US HERE TONIGHT. >>> THE LIVINGSTON AWARDS FOR YOUNG JOURNALISTS. IN THE JOURNALISM WORLD, THE LIVINGSTON AWARDS ARE ONE OF THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS PRIZES YOU CAN RECEIVE. SOME PEOPLE REFER TO IT IN SHORT HABD AS THE PULITZERS FOR THE YOUNG. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW THAT THE LIVINGSTON AWARDS ARE HOUSED HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN. WE GIVE THREE PRIZES EVERY YEAR FOR EXCELLENCE IN REPORTING. ONE FOR EXCELLENCE IN LOCAL REPORTING. ONE FOR NATIONAL REPORTING. AND ONE FOR INTERNATIONAL REPORTING. IT IS ONE OF OUR WINNERS FOR NATIONAL REPORTING THAT BRINGS US HERE TONIGHT. RONAN FARROW WON THE LIVINGSTON AWARD FOR NATIONAL REPORTING LAST YEAR FOR HIS REPORTING FOR THE NEW YORKER ON HARVEY WEINSTEIN. I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE EVERYONE TO BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION AS WE MOVE THROUGH THE EVENING. OUR GUESTS ARE GOING TO BE IN A DISCUSSION HERE AND THEN WE'RE GOING OPEN UP AT THE END FOR QUESTIONS. WE WILL HAVE MICS IN THE AUDIENCE AND PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO DIRECT YOU TO THE MICROPHONES TO SHARE YOUR QUESTIONS. ALSO WE HAVE PEOPLE FOLLOWING US ON LIVE STREAM THIS EVENING. WE WOULD LIKE TO INVITE YOU TO FOLLOW THE CONVERSATION AND SUBMIT YOUR QUESTIONS USING THE HASHTAG #WALLACEHOUSE. THERE WILL BE SOMEONE TRACK TWITTER AND WE'LL MAKE SURE YOUR QUESTIONS ARE PART OF THE QUESTION AND ANSWER CONVERSATION. IT'S GOOD TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM TONIGHT. WE DO PUBLIC EVENTS THROUGH WALLACE HOUSE PRESENTS BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF JOURNALISM TO SPARK CONVERSATION AND TO GET PEOPLE CIVICALLY INVOLVED IN THE ISSUES THAT ARE INFORMING THE WAY WE LIVE OUR LIVES. AND I THINK, CERTAINLY, THE REPORTING THAT CAME FROM THE TIME PERIOD AROUND OCTOBER 2017 IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE STRENGTH OF WHAT JOURNALISM CAN DO WHEN IT HITS AT A MOMENT WHEN PEOPLE ARE READY TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING. IN OCTOBER OF 2017, RONAN FARROW WROTE A STORY DETAILING THE FIRST ON THE RECORD ABUSES BY HARVEY WEINSTEIN. WE'LL LEARN MORE TONIGHT THAT THIS WAS AN OPEN SECRET IN HOLLYWOOD AND IN MUCH OF THE JOURNALISM WORLD. BUT RONAN DID SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY. HE MANAGED TO GET WOMEN TO GO ON THE RECORD. THE PERSON WHO IS INTERVIEWING HIM TONIGHT KEN AULETTA ALSO A REPORTER WITH THE NEW YORKER HAD TRIED TO GET THE SAME STORY MANY YEARS BEFORE IN 2002. YOU WILL HEAR HOW THEY WORKED TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THAT RONAN'S STORY WOULD SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY AND BE PUBLISHED. WHEN THAT WORK WAS PUBLISHED ALONG WITH THE REPORTING OF TWO REPORTERS FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES", JODY CANTOR AND MEGAN TOOY, WHO ALSO WROTE ABOUT HARVEY WEINSTEIN AT THIS TIME, IT SET OFF A NATIONAL AND THEN INTERNATIONAL MOVEMENT PICKING UP ON ME TOO WHICH HAD ALREADY STARTED IN SOCIAL MEDIA AND THEN MOVING THROUGH A SERIES OF STORIES WHERE WE SAW MANY HEADS OF INDUSTRY ACROSS ALL INDUSTRIES, IN MEDIA, IN HOLLYWOOD, IN ACADEMIA, FINALLY HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR BAD BEHAVIOR. AND THE REPORTING OF RONAN, MEGAN AND JODY ALSO IMBOLDENED MANY REPORTERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO PURSUE SIMILAR STORIES. STORIES THAT THEY HAD BEEN HEARING FOR YEARS AND NEEDED THE BACKING TO NAIL DOWN, NEEDED SOME SORT OF VALIDATION FROM OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAD HAD THIS EXPERIENCE THAT THEY WOULD BE SAFE IN TELLING THESE STORIES. THIS RESULTED IN A SERIES OF STORIES THAT WENT ACROSS CERTAINLY NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL MEDIA, BUT ALSO IN REGIONAL MEDIA, ALSO IN LOCAL MEDIA, AND EVEN HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN. AND TO SHOW THE REACH OF THIS REPORTING, I'D LIKE TO BRING OUT TWO UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN STUDENTS, SAMMY SUSSMAN, A SOPHOMORE AND NIESA KAHN A SENIOR. IN OCTOBER OF 2018 NIESA WROTE A STORY ABOUT WHAT IT IS LIKE HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN TO REPORT SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND ABUSE. IN DECEMBER OF 2018, SAMMIE SUSSMAN WROTE A STORY ABOUT A PROFESSOR HERE IN THE SCHOOL OF MUSIC THEATER AND DANCE WHO HAD BEEN MOVING THROUGH HIS CAREER WITH SOME 40 YEARS ACROSS MULTIPLE INSTITUTIONS OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND ABUSE. AND THESE TWO REPORTERS AT THE MICHIGAN DAILY WOULD NOT HAVE WRITTEN THEIR STORIES, WOULD NOT HAVE FELT THAT THEY COULD PURSUE THEIR STORIES WITHOUT THIS REPORTING FROM THE NEW YORKER. AND SO TO INTRODUCE KEN AND RONAN, I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE TO THE STAGE OUR OWN STUDENT REPORTERS WHO ALSO NEED YOUR SUPPORT, NIESA KAHN AND SAMMIE SUSSMAN. [ APPLAUSE ] . >> I'LL SPEAK FIRST ABOUT HOW RONAN'S REPORTING INFLUENCED MY REPORTING. SO, IN OCTOBER 2017 WHEN RONAN BROKE HIS ARTICLE ALONG WITH JODY CANTOR AND MEGAN-- >> STAND RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE MICROPHONE. >> SORRY. THERE WE GO. RONAN FARROW'S REPORTING IN OCTOBER 2017 ALONG WITH THAT OF JODY AND MEGAN REALLY CHANGED THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION AROUND SEXUAL MISCONDUCT AND SHOWED SURVIVORS THAT SPEAKING OUT COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE. THAT NO ONE HAD THE POWER TO SUPPRESS THESE ALLEGATIONS. IT SHOWED OTHER REPORTERS SUCH AS THE MICHIGAN DAILY THAT NEITHER FEAR OF LITIGATION OR RETRIBUTION NEED PREVENT REPORTING THOSE STEORIES. MY ARTICLE WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT RONAN'S REPORTING. ONE OF THE SURVIVORS OF STEPHEN'S ABUSE FROM 1979 CONTACTED THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN RIGHT AFTER HIS ARTICLE CAME OUT SAYING SOMETHING SIMILAR HAPPENED TO HER INVOLVING A PROFESSOR HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY. AND AFTER SHE THEN CONTACTED OTHER SURVIVORS OF SHIPS AND THEY CONTACTED ME AND AFTER ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS OF WORK I WAS ABLE TO DOCUMENT THIS ABUSE OVER 40 YEARS. SO IT REALLY NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF HE HADN'T STARTED THIS CONVERSATION. >> YEAH. AND WITH BROKEN RECORD, WE FOLLOW STUDENT WE REFER TO AS TAYLOR AND HER CLAIMS AND THE PERSONAL IMPACT IT HAD HAD HER CAREER. HER WILLINGNESS TO TALK TO ME OPENED A DOOR TO THE INTRICATE DETAILS ABOUT THE UNIVERSITY TITLE 9 PROCESS THAT SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT. TAYLOR'S BELIEF OF SPEAKING OUT WAS FUELED BY THE #MeToo MOVEMENT AND THE CHANGES IN HOW THE PUBLIC IS RESPONDING TO SURVIVORS. >> SO, FIRST OFF, JUST BECAUSE I'M SUPPOSED TO INTRODUCE RONAN NOW, HE IS QUITE AN INTIMIDATING PERSON TO INTRODUCE. START WITH HIS GRADUATION FROM COLLEGE AT 15, HIS WORK AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT FOR HOLBROOK. HIS BROOK INTERVIEWING EVERY SECRETARY OF STATE. HIS REPORTING ON HARVEY VINESTEIN. HIS PULITZER OR HIS DOCTORATE HE GOT IN THERE. HIS GROUND BREAK REPORTING ON HARVEY WEINSTEIN HAS BECOME THE GOLD STANDARD OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT REPORTING. HIS ARTICLE SET OFF A TIDAL WAVE OF CHANGE. AND HIS FURTHER REPORTING UNVEILED THE TOOLS AT THE DISPOSAL OF AMERICA'S MOST POWERFUL VIG FIGURE AS THEY SEEK TO SILENCE THEIR VICTIMS. IT HAS BECOME A CATALYST ON TO HIMSELF IN THE ME TOO ERA. >> I THE PLEASURE OF INTRODUCING KEN AULETTA. HE STARRED IN THE NEW YORKER IN 1977 AND COMMUNICATION HAS BEEN A SPEARHEAD SINCE 1992 A DEEP DIVE INTO HOW WE VIEW MEDIA. HIS WORK HAS BEEN PROFILING LEADERS FROM LARGE COMPANIES FOR YEARS. THE LAST OF WHICH HAS WON A NATIONAL MAGAZINE AWARD. HIS WORK DELVES INTO THE PRACTICE IN SPECIFIC INDUSTRIES WHERE CULTURES CAN SOMETIMES TURN TOXIC. IN 2002 HE PUBLISHED A PROFILE OF WEINSTEIN'S OWN HISTORY OF WOMEN. THEIRWORK HAS SCOMPLOESED DEEP FLAWS WITHIN THE MEDIA INDUSTRY. PASSED OFF WITH BYPRODUCTS OF THE OLD BOY'S FAMILY. AS YOUNG PEOPLE ENTER INTO THE FIELD WE ASPIRE TO THE VALUES OF THE HONEST, INTEGRITY AND COURAGE OF THESE REPORTERS. WE HOPE THAT FUTURE GENERATIONS CAN OVERCOME THE PRACTICES THAT ARE TOO PREVALENT IN AMERICAN WORKFORCE. >> ABOVE ALL, WE JUST WANT TO REMEMBER THAT AS MUCH AS WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT JOURNALISM, THAT SURVIVORS ARE REALLY THE CENTERPIECE OF THIS MOVEMENT. THEY'RE MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY SPECIFIC JOURNALIST AND IT'S THEIR BRAVERY THAT PUSHES US FORWARD. SO, THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> SO SAMMY AND NIECEA QUICKLY ESCAPED, BUT I WANT TO SAY, EVEN THOUGH THEY MENTIONED IT WAS A BIT INTIMIDATEING TO MEET ROBEAN AND KEN -- RONAN AND KEN, IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT SAMMY, BEFORE HE BROKE THIS MAJOR STORY, WROTE CLASSICAL MUSIC CRITIQUES FOR THE MICHIGAN DAILY AND HAD NEVER DONE A NEWS STORY BEFORE THIS TIP FELL INTO HIS LAP. AND THE STORY THAT NIECEA AND MAYA PURSUED WAS EQUALLY AMBITIOUS. AND I WANT TO SAY A THANK YOU TO THEM FOR HAVING THE COURAGE ACTUALLY TO STEP FORWARD AND SAY, I THINK I HAVE SOMETHING HERE; I DON'T KNOW THOU DO IT, BUT I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING HERE. AND FOR ALL OF THE EDITORS, ALL OF THE ADVISORS, ALL OF THE LAWYERS WHO CAME TOGETHER TO HELP THEM FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THEIR STORIES FROM A TIP TO THE PAGE, THIS IS HOW JOURNALISM IS DONE. WHETHER IT IS FOR THE MICHIGAN DAILY OR FOR THE NEW YORKER. YOU GET A TIP AND YOU RIGOROUSLY FOLLOW IT THROUGH. AND THERE ARE LEGION OF PEOPLE BEHIND THE SCENES HELPING YOU CHECK FACTS, MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE LEGALLY WITHIN THE BOUNDS FOR THE THINGS THAT YOU ARE WRITING, EDITING, SO THAT YOUR STORY IS TIGHT AND COMPELLING AND UNDERSTANDABLE. AND SO FOR ANYONE IN THE ROOM WHO HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN ANY OF THESE STORIES THAT THE MICHIGAN DAILY HAS DONE, I WOULD APPLAUD YOU. AND WHILE WE ALSO HAVE IN THE ROOM SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUES FROM MICHIGAN RADIO, WHO THIS YEAR HAD A PODCAST CALLED "BELIEVED," THAT DETAILED THE STORIES OF VICTIMS OF LARRY NASSAR, WE ARE DOING EXCELLENT WORK HERE IN ANN ARBOR. AND THE JOURNALISM THAT IS NOW, I THINK, SPREAD ACROSS THE COUNTRY INSPIRED BY THE WORK OF KEN AND RONAN. IF WE COULD JUST TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK OUR OWN LOCAL JOURNALISTS BECAUSE THEY NEED AS MUCH SUPPORT AS OUR NATIONAL REPORTERS DO. [ APPLAUSE ] >> YOU'RE STILL TALK? >> COME ON OUT. NOW I'D LIKE TO WELCOME TO THE STAGE KEN AULETTA AND RONAN FARROW. [ LAUGHTER ] [ APPLAUSE ] >> RONAN FARROW: HI, KEN. >> KEN AULETTA: HOW ARE YOU SIR? >> RONAN FARROW: I'M HONORED TO BE HERE WITH YOU. HOW DID YOU COME TO THE HARVEY WEINSTEIN STORY >> I WAS ASSIGNED IT AT A NETWORK I WAS A REPORTER AT. WHAT I WAS ASSIGNED SPECIFICALLY WAS A NARROW THREAD OF IT. A SERIES OF TWEETS BY THE ACTRESS ROSE McGOWAN. I HAD BEEN WORKING ON A MANY SERIES FOR AN INVESTIGATIVE SHOW THAT I HAD -- THAT AIRED ON THE TODAY SHOW THEIR, THEIR BIG MORNING SHOW ON SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN HOLLYWOOD. AND WITHIN THE CONVERSATIONS ONE OF THE EXECUTIVES SAID WHAT ABOUT ROSE McGOWAN'S TWEETS. THOSE TWEETS TURNED OUT TO BE ABOUT HARVEY WEINSTEIN AND THIS LED TO A RABBIT HOLE THAT NONE OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT CONVERSATION COULD HAVE ANTICIPATED >> KEN AULETTA: SO WHAT HAPPENED NEXT >> RONAN FARROW: WELL, ROSE McGOWAN WENT ON THE RECORD AND SHE HAD A RAPE ALLEGATION WHICH IS NOW PUBLICLY KNOWN >> KEN AULETTA: BUT SHE THEN PULLED BACK RIGHT >> RONAN FARROW: MUCH LATER. SHE WENT ON THE RECORD IN JANUARY/FEBRUARY THEN AFTER A VERY LONG FRAUGHT PROCESS WHERE SHE FELT JERKED AROUND SHE TRIED TO PULL BACK HER INTERVIEW IN LATE AUGUST. WHAT HAPPENED HAS THIS EXTRAORDINARY SNOWBALL AFFECT ABOUT THAT FIRST INTERVIEW AND SEVERAL OTHERS DONE IN THE DAYS BEFORE IT WHERE I STARTED ACCUMULATING ACCOUNTS FROM EXECUTIVES WITHIN WEINSTEIN'S COMPANY AND MULTIPLE PEOPLE HAD GONE ON CAMERA SAYING WE WITNESSED A PATTERN OF HARASSMENT, ABUSE AND COVER-UPS. AFTER THAT INTERVIEW, MORE WOMEN CAME FORWARD. MORE WOMEN WENT ON THE RECORD. MORE WOMEN PROVIDED EVIDENCE OF BOTH SETTLEMENTS AN ADMISSIONS OF GUILT BY HARVEY WEINSTEIN >> KEN AULETTA: DID THEY GO ON THE RECORD AT THAT POINT BECAUSE THEY FELT COMFORT IN NUMBERS OR WAS IT YOUR CHARM? >> RONAN FARROW: THIS IS ALWAYS A COMPLICATED WE FACE AS REPORTERS RIGHT? I MEAN, HOW DOES IT HAPPEN THAT THIS MIRACULOUS THING TRANSPIRES WHERE PEOPLE RELIVE THE MOST DIFFICULT EXPERIENCE OF A LIFETIME AND PUT THEMSELVES IN THE LINE OF FIRE TO EXPOSE WRONGDOING. YOU KNOW, AND YOU MIGHT BE BETTER POSITIONED TO ASK THE SOURCES. BUT FROM MY STANDPOINT, IT WAS A REALIZATION THAT IF THEY DIDN'T SPEAK UP IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN. BY APRIL OF 2017, I HAD AN AUDIOTAPE MADE IN A NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT STING OPERATION IN WHICH HARVEY WEINSTEIN TRIED TO CAJOLE A WOMAN IN TO GOING INTO A HOTEL ROOM WITH HIM, CORROBORATED HER CLAIM THAT HE HAD ASSAULTED HER THE DAY BEFORE. SAID, YES, I'M SORRY, I'M USED TO THAT. >> KEN AULETTA: GRABBING HER BREASTS >> RONAN FARROW: RIGHT. SHE WAS WEARING A WIRE COOPERATING WITH THE POLICE TO GET HIM TO ADMIT TO THE ASSAULT SHE ALLEGED. AND I WAS ABLE TO GET THAT AUDIO. BY THAT POINT, KEN, WE HAD CONVERSATIONS NOT LONG AFTER THAT, IT BECAME VERY CLEAR TO ME THAT THAT STORY HAD TO BREAK. AND THAT IF IT DIDN'T, I WOULD HAVE A DEGREE OF GUILT FOR ALLOWING IT TO SIT THERE WHILE PERHAPS PRED DAGS WAS CONTINUING. >> KEN AULETTA: HERE WE ARE. YOU AND I DID A LONG INTERVIEW IN JULY OF 2017. AND YOU TOLD ME THEN THAT -- I HAD TRIED TO GET HARVEY -- TO NAIL HARVEY WEINSTEIN YEARS BEFORE AND AGAIN IN 2015. BUT, UNLIKE MY FRIEND HERE, I COULDN'T GET WOMEN TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND GO PUBLIC. AND YOU TOLD ME AT THAT TIME THAT YOU HAD THREE WOMEN ON CAMERA -- ONE WAS ROSE McGOWAN -- WHO BY NAME, FACE YOU SAW THEM. YOU HAD FIVE WOMEN ON CAMERA BUT SHIELDED THEIR NAMES AND THEIR FACE WAS SHIELDED. AND YOU HAD THE AMBER AUDIOTAPE. THE ITALIAN MODEL. I SAID MY GOD YOU GOT IT. YOU'VE BROKEN THE STORY THAT PEOPLE LIKE ME COULDN'T BREAK. AND THEN IN AUGUST OF 2017, NBC KILLED IT. WHAT HAPPENED? >> RONAN FARROW: WELL, I'VE WORKED VERY HARD SINCERELY TO KEEP THE FOCUS ON THE WOMEN AND THEIR ALLEGATIONS. AND I FELT LIKE IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR A LONG TIME TO MAKE SURE THE STORY WAS THOSE ALLEGATIONS AND NOT THE STORY BEHIND THE STORY. BUT I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PUBLIC CORRECTLY HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ROLE THE MEDIA PLAYS IN COVERING THIS UP SOMETIMES. AND THERE WILL ABSOLUTELY BE A TIME AND PLACE WHERE I THINK THAT STORY CAN BE TOLD PROPERLY. >> KEN AULETTA: NAMELY, YOUR BOOK? >> RONAN FARROW: RIGHT. IT IS AN INVESTIGATIVE PROJECT AS CHALLENGING AS THE STORY IT SELF, AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE FAIR TO EVERYONE INVOLVED >> KEN AULETTA: SO RONAN IS SAYING HE IS NOT GOING TO SHARE THAT. BUY THE BOOK >> RONAN FARROW: BUT WHAT KEN IS SAYING IS TRUE. IT VEERED THE EXACT DATE. BUT WHEN I TOLD YOU THAT WE HAD MULTIPLE WOMEN ON CAMERA WAS TRUE. THERE WAS NEVER A VERSION OF THE STORY THAT DIDN'T HAVE A NAMED WOMAN IN IT. AND WE HAD THESE EXPLOSIVE PIECES OF EVIDENCE. WE HAD SEEN HIS SIGNATURE ON A MILLION DOLLAR SETTLEMENT CONTRACT AND THAT WOMAN OFFERED TO BRING IN THAT CONTRACT TO THE NBC LAWYERS. YOU KNOW, WE HAD THIS EXPLOSIVE AUDIO, WHICH ONCE IT BROKE WAS OF COURSE ON EVERY CHANNEL ALL DAY FOR SEVERAL DAYS STRAIGHT. THERE WAS NO DOUBT IN MIND OF ANY JOURNAL IGS WHO LOOKED AT THAT THIS WAS A HUGE STORY. AND IT BECAME CLEAR TO ME THAT IT WAS WORTH ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED TO MY CAREER TO TRY TO GET THAT OUT. >> KEN AULETTA: YOU KNOW, BACK IN 2002, FOR THE NEW YORKER, I DID A PROFILE OF HARVEY. AND I HAD INFORMATION THAT HE HAD RAPED A WOMAN AND PAID HER $250,000. HE PAID ANOTHER WOMAN WHO DEFENDED THE WOMAN -- THIS WAS DURING SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE, MAKING THAT MOVE -- ANOTHER 250. GOT THEM BOTH TO SIGN A NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT. PEOPLE WHISPERED THIS STORY TO ME. I PURSUED THE TWO WOMEN. THEY WOULD NOT TALK. NONE OF THE OTHER WOMEN WHO WHISPERED WOULD TALK. AND SO I FAIL TO GET NAMES WHEN I CONFRONTED HARVEY WEINSTEIN AT THE TIME HARVEY SAID THESE WERE CONSENSUAL AFFAIRS. SO, WE HAD TO DECIDE AT THE NEW YORKER ARE WE THE "NATIONAL ENQU ENQUIRER", ARE WE GOING TO PUBLISH ANONYMOUS VERSUS HIM PUBLICLY SAYING IT DIDN'T HAPPEN? AND WE DIDN'T PUBLISH IT. FOR MANY YEARS, STORIES OR RUMORS ABOUT HARVEY WOULD SURFACE. HOLLYWOOD REPORTER AND STUFF. BUT NOTHING CAME TO BE. HOW -- WHAT IS IT THAT YOU THINK -- WHY DID YOU SUCCEED IN -- AND WHY DID JODIE AND MEG AND THE "NEW YORK TIMES" SUCCEED IN GETTING WOMEN TO FEEL COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO COME FORWARD? >> RONAN FARROW: SO THE STORY THAT RAN SEVERAL WEEKS AFTER YOU MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, IT DID NOT RUN AS A TELEVISION PIECE HAD, I BELIEVE, 13 WOMEN'S STORIES AND MORE THAN HALF OF THOSE ON THE RECORD. AND I THINK THE REASON FOR THAT IS ALTHOUGH I COULDN'T TELL THOSE SOURCES AS THEY WERE DOING THIS INCREDIBLY BRAVE THING THAT THEY WOULD BE HEARD, THAT THERE WOULD BE A VERSION OF THE UNIVERSE THAT WE WOULD ALL LIVE IN A YEAR LATER WHERE PEOPLE WOULD CARE ABOUT THEIR STORIES AND THE STORIES WOULD MATTER AND THERE WOULD BE ACCOUNTABILITY BECAUSE OF THEM. BUT I COULD SAY, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN RECENT HISTORY, HEY, THERE ARE SOME SLIVERS OF PRECEDENT HERE THAT ARE PROMISING. THERE ARE THE WOMEN WHO FOR YEARS STRUGGLED TO MAKE THEMSELVES HEARD ABOUT BILL COSBY. WHO WERE AT THAT POINT IN LATE 2016, EARLY 2017 STILL VERY MUCH SMEARED AND MALIGNED BUT THE STORIES WERE OUT THERE AND THEY WERE FOMENTING AND IN MY VIEW GAINING MOMENTUM. WHEN I WAS ANCHORING AN HOUR OF CABLE A DAY I WOULD FILL THE TIME WITH STORIES FROM COSBY ACCUSERS BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS AN UNDERREPRESENTED ISSUE. THERE WERE A SERIES OF STORIES WRITTEN BY THE "NEW YORK TIMES" ABOUT FOX NEWS. GRETCHEN CARLSON COMING FORWARD AS A POWERFUL WOMAN SAYING I WAS HARASSED IN THIS SETTING. THOSE WERE ALL PRECEDENTS I COULD POINT TO. IT DID SELL EVERYONE, AND SOMETIMES IT TOOK MONTHS OF INTENSIVE CONVERSATION, BECAUSE THIS WAS A DECISION THAT UPENDED PEOPLE'S LIVES, BUT IT IT WAS I THINK DIFFERENT FROM THE ENVIRONMENT YOU WERE WORKING IN ALMOST 20 YEARS EARLIER >> KEN AULETTA: YOU KNOW IT'S INTERESTING. I WOULD HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH DAVID WHILE YOU WERE REPORTING YOUR FIRST SET OF STORIES FOR THE NEW YORKER. AND I WOULD TALK TO DAVID, THE EDITOR, AND HE WOULD SAY, GOD, IT'S AMAZING TO WATCH RONAN FARROW ON THE PHONE WITH THESE WOMEN. HE IS JUST TALKING TO THEM WITH GREAT EMPATHY AND JUST MAKE THEM FEEL COMFORTABLE AND I JUST LOVE -- HE IS SAYING, I LOVE LISTENING TO THESE CONVERSATIONS, AND I CAN'T BELIEVE IT. PAM McCARTHY THE DEPUTY EDITOR SAID THE SAME THING TO ME. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRIKES ME IS THAT YOU DON'T GIVE YOURSELF ENOUGH CREDIT. AND THE TIMES REPORTERS DON'T. BECAUSE THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THAT, YES, THE CULTURE CHANGED, YES, COSBY, AND ALES AND O'REILLY HAPPENED, BUT WHAT'S MISSING FROM THAT ANALYSIS IS THE PAINSTAKING WORK THAT YOU DID TO MAKE THESE WOMEN FEEL COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO BE BRAVE AND NOT TO BE FEARFUL THAT THIS MONSTER WAS GOING TO KILL THEM. >> RONAN FARROW: THANK YOU, KEN. IT MEANS A LOT. HONESTLY, HEARING THAT MOVES ME ALMOST TO TEARS BECAUSE IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT TIME IN MY LIFE TOO AS A REPORTER. I WAS LOSING MY JOB OVER THIS. I DIDN'T KNOW IF I WOULD EVER WORK AGAIN IN JOURNALISM. I HAD A VERY POWERFUL GUY SAYING HE WAS GOING TO THROW A HUGE LEGAL TEAM AT ME, THAT HE KNEW I DIDN'T HAVE A NEWS ORGANIZATION BEHIND ME ANYMORE AND HE WAS COMING AT ME WITH EVERYTHING THAT HE HAD. AND THE ENCOURAGEMENT OF A REPORTER I RESPECTED WHEN I FIRST ENCOUNTERED KEN AND TALKED TO HIM AND HE SAID, KEEP GOING YOU KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE -- FIRST OF ALL, YOU SAID YOU HAVE IT. THE MOMENT I TOLD YOU ABOUT THE RECORDING >> KEN AULETTA: I WAS SO THRILLED I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT >> RONAN FARROW: HE WAS EXCITED. [ LAUGHTER ] WHICH IS A FUNNY THING ABOUT SUCH A DARK TOPIC. BUT HE CARED SO PROFOUNDLY FOR YEARS, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN I REALLY KNEW THAT THIS STORY WAS IN TROUBLE, THE FIRST CALL I MADE WAS TO KEN. AND THE FACT THAT HE WAS GENEROUS ENOUGH TO CALL DAVID REM NICK THE EDITOR OF THE NEW YORKER AND THAT DAVID DID HAVE THAT OUTLOOK. THAT HE KNEW IT WAS IMPORTANT AND STILL CARED ALL THOSE YEARS LATER. THE COUNTER POINT MEANT SO MUCH TO ME. BECAUSE I HAD SPENT A LONG PERIOD OF TIME IN CONVERSATIONS WITH THESE WOMEN WHO I KNEW WERE DOING SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT FOR SOCIETY AT GREAT PERSONAL RISK. AND ALL I WANTED DESPERATELY WAS TO TELL THEM NOT ONLY DO I HAVE YOUR BACK AND I'M GOING TO PROTECT YOU AND DO THIS RIGHT, BUT ALSO THERE'S A NEWS ORGANIZATION THAT'S GOING TO BE A TANK AND GO INTO THIS THING AND BECAUSE I HAVE THE EVIDENCE, THIS IS GOING TO GO FORWARD. AND I DIDN'T HAVE THAT. I SAT IN ROOMS WITH EXECUTIVES OVER AND OVER AGAIN WHO SAID, YOU KNOW, THESE WOMEN ARE CRAZY, THEY'RE NOT CREDIBLE, IT'S NOT A STORY, IT WILL NEVER BE A STORY, PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO CARE ABOUT THIS. WHO HAS HEARD OF HARVEY WEINSTEIN, IS OUR AVERAGE VIEWER IN THE MIDWEST GOING TO CARE. AND ON AND ON >> KEN AULETTA: THIS IS NBC. A PREVIEW OF THE BOOK >> RONAN FARROW: BUT IT'S NOT A STORY ABOUT NBC PER SE. IT IS A STORY ABOUT WHAT ALLOWS SECRETS LIKE THIS TO TESTER DECADE AFTER DECADE. AND THERE WERE A NUMBER OF NEWS ORGANIZATIONS THAT FOLDED ON IMPORTANT STORIES OF THIS TYPE BECAUSE POWERFUL, WEALTHLY MEN HELD THE REINS AND WERE ABLE TO MANIPULATE AND CONTROL THE MEDIA. SO, ONE THING THAT I THINK YOU HOPED CHANGE IN BEING SO GENEROUS AND HELPING TO MAKE SURE THE STORY SAW THE LIGHT OF DAY, IS I THINK MEDIA OUTLETS ARE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF TROUBLE PASSING ONCE THEY HAVE REAL EVIDENCE OF ONGOING CRIMINAL ACTIVITY GOING FORWARD. I THINK THAT THE INCENTIVE STRUCTURE IS GOING TO CHANGE WHEN THAT FULL STORY IS TOLD >> KEN AULETTA: ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS WARY OF, WHEN I FIRST TALKED TO RONAN IN SPRING OF 2017, AND YOU WERE DOING THIS INVESTIGATION OF HARVEY WEINSTEIN. BUT I KNEW OF YOUR HISTORY WITH WOODY ALLEN. AND SO IN MY MIND I'M SAYING, IS RONAN FARROW A ZEALOT OR IS HE A JOURNALIST? AND YOU CONVINCED ME YOU WERE A JOURNALIST WHEN YOU CAME TO IT. WHEN I CALLED REM NICK ABOUT YOU IN AUGUST OF 2017, THE WORD I USED, I SAID -- AND I THINK HE PROBABLY HAD THAT SAME QUESTION IN HIS MIND, THOUGH HE DIDN'T EXPRESS IT. I SAID, RONAN FARROW IS JUDICIOUS. WHICH IS WHAT YOU WANT A GOOD JOURNALIST TO BE. CAREFUL, NOT PRESUMING, JUST AGGRESSIVELY SEARCHING FOR THE TRUTH. HAVE YOU ENCOUNTERED THAT SUSPICIOUS? IS HE A ZEALOT >> RONAN FARROW: IT WAS THE MAIN ARGUMENT HARRY WEINSTEIN USED AND SHOWED UP IN HIS LEGAL THREAT LETTERS AND SO FORTH, YOU KNOW, THIS CASE THAT MY SISTER HAD BEEN RAPED AND, THEREFORE, I CARED ABOUT THE ISSUE TOO MUCH, I WAS ON A CRUSADE. LOOK, A CONFLICT OF INTEREST WOULD HAVE BEEN IF I HAD A BUSINESS DEAL THAT WENT BAD WITH HARVEY WEINSTEIN. I ONLY HAD POSITIVE ASSOCIATIONS WITH HARVEY WEINSTEIN. I WAS VAGUELY AWARE OF HIS LARGER THAN LIFE STATURE IN THE INDUSTRY AND THINGS THAT SHOWED UP IN PROFILES LIKE YOURS THAT HE HAD A VOLCANIC TEMPER WAND AS A COLORFUL, SCRAPPY CHARACTER, I THINK THE WORD WE USED IN THE FIRST STORIES WAS ROUGH HUME, AND VERY TALENTED IN TERMS OF HAVING AN EYE FOR TALENT AND PRODUCING THE FILMS THAT HE DID. I ONLY EVER HAD POLITE COCKTAIL PARTY CONVERSATION WITH HIM I THINK ONCE OR TWICE. I HAD MET HIM AND HAD SHAKEN HIS HAND. THE HONEST TO GOD TRUTH I HAD WAS TO NOT PISS OFF HARVEY WEINSTEIN. THE SEPARATE PHENOMENON -- >> KEN AULETTA: YOU FAILED AT THAT. [ LAU [ LAUGHTER ] >> RONAN FARROW: I DEFINITELY FAILED AT THAT. THE SEPARATE PHENOMENON OF SOMEONE IN YOUR FAMILY IS AFFECTED BY SEXUAL VIOLENCE IS NOT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST. IT IS SO ATEN WAITED FROM THE SPECIFICS OF THE FACT PATTERN. DOES IT MAKE ME CARE ABOUT THE ISSUE AND UNDERSTAND ITS IMPORTANCE? ABSOLUTELY. I HAD, YOU KNOW, DISTINCTIVE PERSONAL INSIGHT ON THE FACT THAT THIS MATTERED AND THAT THESE STORIES WEREN'T HEARD ENOUGH. FOR SURE THAT CONTRIBUTED TO MY PASSION IN STICKING WITH THE STORY. AND THAT WOULD BE TRUE I IMAGINE OF ANY ONE OF YOU WHO CARES ABOUT SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN A SURVIVOR OF THAT KIND OF VIOLENCE. BUT THERE WAS NEVER ANY QUESTION -- AND THIS WAS ONE OF THE FIRST CONVERSATIONS WE HAD AT THE NEW YORKER. I SHOWED THEM EVERYTHING THAT I HAD. I SAID HARVEY WEINSTEIN MADE THIS ARGUMENT AND THEY LAUGHED IT OUT OF THE ROOM. REPORTERS CAN HAVE FAMILY SITUATIONS WHERE THEY CARE ABOUT THE ISSUE AND IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THEIR FEELINGS ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF THE STORY OR PERSONAL ANIMOSITY. AS FAR AS HARVEY WEINSTEIN WENT, I WENT IN BLANK SLATE. BOTH OF MY PARENTS HAD BEEN IN FILMS DISTRIBUTED BY HIM, HAD WORKED WITH HIM, BUT WE KNEW THAT FROM THE OUTSET OF THE REPORTING. BACK IN JANUARY OF 2017 WE HAD, YOU KNOW, ALL SAT AROUND IN MY NEWSROOM AND GOOGLED AND MADE SURE THERE WAS NO CONNECTION GREATER THAN THAT >> KEN AULETTA: LET'S BROADEN IT BEYOND HARVEY. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT SOMEONE LIKE LES MOONVES, THE OUSTED PRESIDENT AND CEO OF CBS >> RONAN FARROW: I ALSO FAILED AT NOT PISSING HIM OFF. I HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DON'T LIKE ME. >> KEN AULETTA: HOW DO YOU THINK THAT PEOPLE LIKE LESS MOONVES OR MR. NASSAR HERE HARVEY WEINSTEIN, OR BILL COSBY, HOW DO YOU THINK THEY THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS SHIT? >> RONAN FARROW: THE ANSWER IS POWER. IT'S POWER STRUCTURES AND POWER IMBALANCES. AND THAT CAN BE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE LES MOONVES, THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN ALL OF MEDIA, OR IT CAN BE YOU ARE A DOCTOR, A TRUSTED FIGURE AND YOU CONVINCED PARENTS THAT ARE A TRUSTED AUTHORITY FIGURE. I HOPE ONE OF THE LESSONS OF ALL OF THESE BRAVE SOURCES COMING FORWARD IS THAT THAT'S GOT TO STOP. AND WE'VE ALL GOT TO BE VIGILANT ABOUT THE ABUSE OF POWER AND THAT OUR INSTITUTIONS AND STRUCTURES IN OUR SOCIETY NEED TO HOLD THE POWERFUL MORE ACCOUNTABLE. BECAUSE YOU ONLY GET FIGURES LIKE THE ONES THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED THROUGH YEARS AND YEARS OF NOBODY STANDING UP TO THEM. >> KEN AULETTA: SO AT NIGHT WHEN LES MOONVES GOES HOME AND PUTS HIS HEAD ON THE PILLOW, OR HARVEY WEINSTEIN OR NAME YOUR CHOICE, WHAT DO THEY SAY TO THEMSELVES ABOUT WHAT THEY'VE JUST DONE? LES MOONVES HAS JUST TAKEN THIS 24-YEAR-OLD ASPIRING ACTRESS AND PUSHED HER HEAD DOWN ON HIS PENIS OR HARVEY HAS RAPED SOMEONE. HOW DO THEY EXPLAIN TO THEMSELVES WHAT THEY JUST DID? OR DON'T THEY? >> RONAN FARROW: THIS IS WHY YOU WRITING THIS BIOGRAPHY OF HARVEY WEINSTEIN IS INCREDIBLY VALUABLE AND SEPARATE FROM THE SCOPE OF ANYTHING I'VE DONE. MY JOB WAS SO NARROW IN THOSE INVESTIGATIONS. IT WAS VERY MUCH ABOUT THE FACTS, THE FACTS, THE FACTS. ESTABLISHING THE FACTS, TRY ANG LATEING THE FACTS, GETTING THE DOCUMENTS AND THE AUDIO AND MULTIPLE SOURCING EVERYTHING. SIGH KOL JIEZING AND UNDERSTANDING HOW SOMEONE BECOMES A SERIAL SEXUAL OFFENDER IS A VERY COMPLICATED AND SEPARATE PROJECT. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE THE ANSWER TO THAT. I DO THINK THAT THE INSIGHT THAT I'VE GLEANED FROM REPORTING NOT JUST ON INDIVIDUALS BUT ON INSTITUTIONS IS THAT THE STRUCTURES ALLOW THE ABUSE. AND THE REPEATED ALLOWANCES THAT ARE MADE EXACERBATE THE PROBLEM. AND THERE IS A SENSE OF IMPUNITY AT A CERTAIN POINT. I HONESTLY THINK, THE SENSE I GET BASED ON THE RENDERINGS OF THE BEHAVIOR THAT I HEARD, FOR INSTANCE IN THE MOONVES STORY, TALKING TO, YOU KNOW, THE 12TH WOMAN TO GIVE ME A STORY, WAS I DON'T THINK THERE WAS A LOT OF THOUGHT ABOUT IT AFTERWARDS. YOU KNOW, BY THE TIME IT HAD BEEN GOING ON FOR SO MANY YEARS. AND THAT'S A PARTICULARLY GOOD EXAMPLE THAT REINFORCES THE POINT I'M MAKING ABOUT INSTITUTIONS. BECAUSE THE REASON I FELT THAT STORY WAS SO IMPORTANT, AND I STARTED WORKING ON IT THE -- I CONDUCTED THE FIRST INTERVIEW THE DAY AFTER THE FIRST WEINSTEIN STORY BROKE THEN WORKED ON IT FOR EIGHT MONTHS. AND THE REASON I THOUGHT IT WAS SO IMPORTANT WAS THAT WHERE HARVIN WEINSTEIN HAD RUN A SMALL, KIND OF ALMOST FAMILY OWNED SHOP WITH HIS BROTHER, HIS POWER WAS SIGNIFICANT BUT VERY MUCH WANING BY THE TIME THE ALLEGATIONS CAME FORWARD. IN LES MOONVES YOU HAD AN INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS RIDING HIGH >> KEN AULETTA: ARGUABLY THE MOST SUCCESSFUL MODERN TELEVISION EXECUTIVE >> RONAN FARROW: THAT'S RIGHT. AND WAS AT THE TIME OF THE REPORTING CONSIDERED INVINCIBLE BY WALL STREET. HE WAS SYNONYMOUS WITH THAT COMPANY'S SUCCESS. AND BECAUSE OF THAT THERE WAS A BOARD THAT HE HAD INJURED AT THAT COMPANY. IT ALLOWED HIM TO CONTROL THE COMPOSITION OF THAT BOARD. HE WAS MAKING $60 MILLION PLUS A YEAR. AND THE BOARD WAS SO IN THE TANK AND SO NOMINATED BY PEOPLE WHO PRIZED PROFIT OVER ACCOUNTABILITY THEY LITERALLY COVERED UP A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION THAT WAS HAPPENING AT ONE POINT, MULTIPLE ALLEGATIONS THEY KNEW ABOUT. THE TIMES BROKE A STORY AFTER MY SERIES OF CBS STORIES WHERE THEY HAD ACCOUNTS OF INSIDE THE BOARD ROOM DISCUSSIONS WHERE THEY HAD ONE GENTLEMAN ON THE BOARD SAYING I DON'T CARE IF IT'S 16, 17, 18 WOMEN, HE'S GOT TO STAY. AND THAT IS WHAT CREATES THE PSYCHOLOGY AND THE IMPUNITY >> KEN AULETTA: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S FASCINATING ABOUT MANY OF THESE CASES, BOTH THE COSBY CASE AND FOR INSTANCE THE HARVEY WEINSTEIN CASE, IS THAT MANY OF THESE WOMEN WHO WERE VICTIMS NEVERTHELESS CONTINUED TO EMAIL THE PERSON WHO BRUTALIZED THEM AND SAY, I MISS YOU, I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU AGAIN. DO YOU HAVE A PSYCHOLOGICAL EXPLANATION FOR THAT? >> RONAN FARROW: I THINK ANY SURVIVOR OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE WOULD BE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THAT. LOOK, RAPES HAPPEN IN MARRIAGES. THAT'S WELL UNDERSTOOD PSYCHOLOGICALLY, CULTURALLY, LEGALLY. RAPES HAPPEN WITH, YOU KNOW, YOUR FAMILY MEMBER, YOUR PASTOR, YOUR DOCTOR, YOUR BOSS. IT'S PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH AGAIN. AND TO ME IT WAS ALWAYS SLIGHTLY MYSTIFYING THAT, FOR INSTANCE, HARVEY WEINSTEIN SPENT SO MUCH INJURY AND PAID SO MUCH MONEY TO PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS JUST TRYING TO ESTABLISH THAT WOMEN WERE FRIENDLY WITH HIM AFTER THE ALLEGATIONS. >> KEN AULETTA: THAT'S A MAJOR DEFENSE HIS LAWYERS ARE GOING TO USE IN THE NEW YORK TRIAL >> RONAN FARROW: IT IS. NOW, I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD TAKE SURVIVORS AT THEIR WORD. THAT'S NEVER BEEN MY ATTITUDE IN THIS >> KEN AULETTA: DO YOU DISAGREE WITH ME TOO WHO SAYS YOU SHOULD? >> RONAN FARROW: LOOK, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR A DISEM BO BODIED #MeToo MOVEMENT. I HAVE TREMENDOUS RESPECT FOR TA RANA BURKE WHO I THINK IS HEROIC AND A BRILLIANT ACTIVIST. I HAVEN'T HEARD HER PERSONALLY SAY BELIEVE ALL SURVIVORS. MAYBE THAT'S HER ATTITUDE AND MAYBE THAT'S A HELPFUL ATTITUDE TO HAVE AS AN ACTIVIST IN SOMEONE'S ROLE WHO IS ABOUT PLAYING A THEY'RE PUT CAL ROLE. BUT FOR ME AS A REPORTER THE MANDATE IS LISTEN TO ALL SURVIVORS. HEAR THEM OUT. BECAUSE WE WERE NOT LISTENING AS A SOCIETY. THE MOST POWERFUL THING THAT I CAN DO AS A REPORTER IS TO ACTUALLY BE AS SKEPTICAL AS POSSIBLE AND REALLY STRESS TEST ANY CLAIM THAT COMES FORWARD. SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE CLAIMS, THERE'S EMAILS AFTER THE FACT, I WOULD ACTUALLY SAY MY VIEW OF IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE GRANULAR. IS THERE AN EMAIL THAT SPECIFICALLY CON TROW VERTS THE FACTS THAT ARE CLAIMED ON A SPECIFIC DAY? YOU KNOW, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY [ INAUDIBLE ] THE FACT PATTERN THAT'S BEING CLAIMED? IF SO, MAYBE THAT'S USEFUL IN A CASE. MAYBE THAT'S ADMISSIBLE AND MAYBE SOMETHING I COULD CONSIDER AS A REPORTER. BUT THE PICTURE OF THE ACTRESS SMILING WITH HARVEY WEINSTEIN ON A RED CARPET >> KEN AULETTA: YEARS BEFORE >> RONAN FARROW: AFTER THE CLAIM, WHATEVER >> KEN AULETTA: IT'S USUALLY BEFORE >> RONAN FARROW: THE FRIENDLY EMAIL FROM THE PRODUCER TO HER BOSS AFTER THE ALLEGED RAPE, NONE OF THAT IS PERSUASIVE TO ME. BECAUSE THAT IS A FACET OF SO MANY RAPE CLAIMS THAT ARE CREDIBLE AND HAVE BEEN BORNE OUT. >> KEN AULETTA: IT'S ALSO A FORM OF DENIAL. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. >> RONAN FARROW: FOR SURE. LOOK, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS SIGNIFICANT ABOUT WHAT THE NEW YORKER PUT OUT IS THAT IT ADVANCED THE STORY INTO THE REALM OF VERY SERIOUS VIOLENT RAPE ALLEGATIONS WHICH HADN'T BEEN OUT THERE BEFORE. THAT SAID, EVEN WITH THOSE VERY STARK, VIOLENT FACT PATTERNS, YOU ARE DEALING WITH PEOPLE WHO WANT DESPERATELY IN SOME CASES TO DENY TO THEMSELVES THAT IT HAPPENED OR THAT IT WAS THAT BAD, FOR WHOM IT IS A PROCESS SOMETIMES OF YEARS TO COME TO GRIPS WITH IT. >> KEN AULETTA: LET'S TALK ABOUT ME TOO. AND HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SUCCESS YOU'VE HAD IN EXPOSING MOONVES, WEINSTEIN, WE CAN TALK ABOUT ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN, THE NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL, ALSO PART OF YOUR SUCCESS AS A REPORTER. DO YOU FEEL THAT "ME TOO" AND THE CHANGES THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE -- AND I THINK ABOUT THE STORY THAT WAS BROKEN BY A STUDENT NEWSPAPER REPORTER HERE ABOUT A PROFESSOR WHO ABUSED WOMEN OVER MANY, MANY YEARS. DO YOU FEEL THAT SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY HAS CHANGED? OR ARE THESE STRAY STORIES? >> RONAN FARROW: I DO THINK SOMETHING HAS CHANGED. I THINK WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO. I DON'T THINK WE'VE ACHIEVED ACCOUN ACCOUNTABILITY. I DON'T THINK WE'VE IN THE MEDIA FULLY COME TO GRIPS WITH THE EXTENT TO WHICH WE WERE FAILING TO HOLD THE POWERFUL ACCOUNTABLE AND CONTRIBUTING TO A COVER-UP CULTURE. I DON'T THINK WE'VE EXTENDED THE TENTATIVE STEPS TOWARDS ACCOUNTABILITY TO ALL OF THE SEGMENTS OF SOCIETY THAT DESPERATELY NEED IT. YOU KNOW, IT IS STILL VERY MUCH A SET OF STORIES THAT'S BEEN DOMINATED BY AFFLUENT PEOPLE, WHITE PEOPLE, PEOPLE WITH A PUBLIC PROFILE. ALL OF THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. I'M NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT SEXUAL ABUSE. I'M TALKING ABOUT ABUSES OF POWER IN GENERAL THAT ARE BEING COVERED UP EVERY DAY, EVERYWHERE. ALL I CAN SAY THOUGH IS I DON'T SEE US GOING BACK EITHER. I THINK THE EXAMPLE THAT YOU SET FOR ME, LOOKING AT THE STRENGTH OF YOUR REPORTING BUT ALSO THE STRENGTH OF YOUR CONVICTIONS WHEN I CAME TO YOU IN THAT TENTATIVE PLACE, MADE ME CONVINCED THERE WAS NO GOING BACK. I HOPE THAT PEOPLE READING THE STORIES THAT I BROKE, THE STORIES IN THE "TIMES" THE STORIES OF SO MANY REPORTERS BANGING THEIR HEADS AGAINST THE CALL TRYING TO EXPOSE INJUSTICES, HAVE A SIMILAR AFFECT AND THAT WE'RE NOW GALVANIZED ENOUGH AS A PROFESSION NOT TO GO BACK. THAT'S MY HOPE. I DON'T KNOW. >> KEN AULETTA: WE'RE GOING FIND OUT WHAT THE AUDIENCE NIZ A SECOND. I'M GOING TURN TO YOU FOR QUESTIONS. SO, THINK ABOUT THEM. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SOME CRITICS HAVE RAISED IS THAT THEY LOOK AT CASES LIKE STEPHEN HENDERSON HERE, FORMER DETROIT NEWS, OR TOM BROKAW, PEOPLE WHO WERE ACCUSED AND PUBLICLY HUMILIATED FOR FLIRTING OR, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY NOT RAPING ANYONE, CERTAINLY NOT PHYSICALLY ABUSING ANYONE, AND THEY FEEL THAT WE TOO OFTEN ARE LUMPING TOGETHER THE HARVEY WEINSTEIN AND LES MOON VESS AND CHARLIE ROSES WITH THE TOM BROKAWS AND STEVE HENDERSONS. DO YOU THINK THAT'S TRUE? >> RONAN FARROW: I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE "WE" IS IN THAT SENTENCE. I'M CAREFUL TO DRAW THOSE D DISTINCTIONS. THE STORIES I'VE DONE HAVE BEEN DOMINATED BY SERIOUS FORMS OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. THERE IS CERTAINLY A SEPARATE AND IMPORTANT CONVERSATION HAPPENING ABOUT SUBTLEER MORES AND GENDER DYNAMICS AND HOW YOU PREVENT, YOU KNOW, LESS OBVIOUS FORMS OF HARASSMENT. AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. I DON'T THINK THE TWO SHOULD BE CONFLATEED. AND I CERTAINLY THINK THAT WE SHOULD VIEW VERY DIFFERENTLY, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE WHO IS A SERIAL RAPIST AND SOMEONE WHO IS, YOU KNOW, UN-TORRID IN THE WORKPLACE. >> KEN AULETTA: AUDIENCE, LET'S GET SOME QUESTIONS. AND JUST -- HAVE YOU GOT A MICROPHONE? IT'S HARD FOR US TO SEE HERE. JUST RAISE YOUR HAND. THESE MICROPHONES ARE RIGHT IN THE AUDIENCE. SO, STEP UP. IS THERE ONE ON THIS SIDE TOO? >> AUDIENCE YENS. MY NAME IS PETER CARROLL. WE'RE IN A WATERSHED MOMENT HERE WHERE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CHANGE. IT'S BEEN REALLY PRODUCTIVE. I WORRY THERE'S NOTHING THAT NARROWLY PREVENTS THE REPLICATION OF THESE POWER STRUCTURES THAT LED TO SOME OF THESE HORRIFIC OCCURRENCES. AND I WONDER IF THERE IS ANY REASON TO BE OPTIMISTIC OR WHERE YOU THINK WE GO FROM HERE? THANK YOU >> RONAN FARROW: WHAT DO YOU THINK, KEN? [ LAUGHTER ] >> KEN AULETTA: I'M FAIRLY OPTIMISTIC. THOUGH I'D BE MORE OPTIMISTIC IF I SAW MORE EXPOSURE OF WALL STREET AND SOME OF THE BUSINESS WORLD. AND YOU KNOW IT EXISTS. BUT IT'S HARD TO IT'S HARD TO LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED TO O'REILLY AND ALES AND WEINSTEIN AND MOON VES AND SCHNEIDER AND THE PROFESSOR HERE AND SAY THAT, GOD, SOMETHING IS HAPPENING. AND JUST TALK TO MEN. WHEN MEN TALK AND THEY SAY, I DON'T WANT TO MEET ALONE WITH A WOMAN, BECAUSE I AM AFRAID. OR I DON'T WANT TO FLY ON A PLANE ALONE WITH A WOMAN. THAT'S CRAZY. ON THE OTHER HAND, THAT CONSCIOUSNESS RAISING IS GOING TO SPREAD ACROSS SOCIETY AND THEY'RE GOING TO THINK TWICE, I'M HOPING, BEFORE THEY ABUSE ANOTHER WOMAN. >> RONAN FARROW: YOU HAVE TO CREATE INCENTIVES IN THE CORPORATE WORLD FOR CHANGE. AND THOSE INCENTIVES HAVE TO REMAIN. THERE'S A NUMBER OF WAYS TO DO THAT. CLEARLY PUBLIC DISCLOSURE OF THINGS THAT CONSUMERS CARE ABOUT IS ONE OF THEM. THE CBS STORY IS HEARTENING IN A WAY BECAUSE THEY DID REPLACE A MAJORITY OF THEIR BOARD. THEY DID INSTITUTE A NUMBER OF REFORMS. MULTIPLE, HIGH LEVEL FIGURES WHO WERE INVOLVE FWLD THE COVER-UP CULTURE I MENTIONED ARE NOW GONE FROM THAT COMPANY. IN ONE CASE A WOMAN IN A LEADERSHIP POSITION WHERE PREVIOUSLY THERE WAS A GUY WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THIS KIND OF ACTIVITY. SO I THINK IT'S BABY STEPS IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION IN SOME CASES. NOW I'VE NOW REPORTED ON MULTIPLE MEDIA ORGANIZATIONS AND THERE'S AT LEAST ONE OTHER CASE WHERE I'VE SEEN COMPLETELY THE OPPOSITE THING HAPPEN. NOT ONE PERSON HAS LOST A JOB. THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO ACCOUNTABILITY AND THERE'S VERY MUCH A COVER-UP PATTERN. SO I THINK IT CAN CUT EITHER WAY. BUT I WILL SAY I'VE BEEN HEARTENED TO WITNESS A NUMBER OF COMPANIES NOT QUITE PREEMPTIVELY BUT BEFORE THE SCANDAL REACHED THE REAL VOL CRUMB OF, LIKE, 8,000 WORDS IN THE NEW YORKER, TAKE THE RIGHT STEPS. I DON'T WANT TO HOLD IT UP AS A PERFECT EXAMPLE, BUT I THINK SOME OF THE THINGS UBER HAS DONE HAVE BEEN INTERESTING. THEY BROUGHT IN A TRULY INDEPENDENT SET OF REVIEWERS. AND THAT'S ONE REALLY, IF YOU WANT TO GET GRANULAR ABOUT THAT, THAT'S ONE THING COMPANIES MUST DO. THE MOMENT YOU SEE ONE OF THESE COMPANIES INSIST ON AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATION, HIGHLIGHT THAT IN THE ARTICLE YOU ARE READING. >> Ken Auletta: YOU READ TODAY OF THE WARNER BROTHERS CHAIRMAN AND CEO BEING FORCED TO STEP DOWN BECAUSE OF SEXUAL ABUSE. WHAT IS THE HEAD OF THE DIVISION SAYING? I THINK WE NEED A WOMAN TO RUN IT. THAT'S ANOTHER CHANGE AND A VERY HELPFUL ONE. [ APPLAUSE ] >> Ronan Farrow: AND THAT ONE WAS VERY MUCH AN OPEN SECRET. SO I WAS HEARTENED TO SEE KIM MASTERS BROKE THAT STORY IN THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER AND IT WAS GOOD REPORTING. I THINK WE'RE MORE COMPANIES THAN BEFORE TAKE THE REFORM SERIOUSLY, DO THE INDEPENDENT OUTSIDE REVIEW, CHANGE THEIR POLICIES ON NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS SO THEY'RE NOT SHUTTING UP VICTIMS OF ASSAULT IN THE COMPANY. AND ALL WE CAN HOPE FOR IS THAT ALL OF YOU GUYS KEEP HOLDING THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE. I THINK WHAT HAPPENS IN THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION IN THE PUBLIC IS REALLY IMPORTANT. UNDERSTANDING THOSE DISTINCTIONS. MAKING SURE WE ALL PUBLICLY SHAME THE PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO HAVE THE INDEPENDENT REVIEW. THAT WILL MATTER >> WE HAVE A QUESTION HERE. THEN WE'LL GO BACK OVER TO THIS SIDE. >> AUDIENCE MEMBER: THANK YOU. HI, GENTLEMEN. MY NAME IS CAMERON. AM A U OF M GRADUATE. I'D LIKE TO QUICKLY SAY I'VE SPENT THE LAST TEN YEARS TRYING TO MAKE MY WAY AS A PERFORMER AND COMEDIAN IN THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY AND I LIVED IN L.A. BRIEFLY IN 2012. THERE WAS NO ONE, NO AGENT OR ANYTHING. MY FRIEND WAS WORKING AS A STYLIST. WITHIN THE FIRST WEEK HE WARNED ME, DON'T EVER GO TO AN AUDITION IN A HOTEL ROOM. AND DON'T EVER BE ALONE IN A ROOM WITH HARVEY WEINSTEIN. I'M NOT JOKING. SO, THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR THE WORK YOU'VE DONE. AND THAT WAS -- WE BOTH HAD VERY FEW CONTACTS OR ANYTHING AND HE STILL KNEW TO TELL ME NOT TO BE ALONE WITH HARVEY WEINSTEIN. EVERYBODY KNEW. SO, THANK YOU. MY QUESTION IS THIS. HAVE YOU NOTICED A CHANGE IN THE CONVERSATION REGARDING REPORTING ON STORIES DEALING WITH SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND SEXUAL ASSAULT AMONG YOUR COLLEAGUES, AMONG OTHER JOURNALISTS? HAS THE TONE BEHIND THE SCENES CHANGED AT ALL? HOW THE WAY PEOPLE ARE APPROACHING THE STORIES CHANGED? >> Ronan Farrow: I'M INTERESTED TO HEAR KEN'S THOUGHTS ON THIS. BECAUSE HE CAN ALSO TALK ABOUT AN EARLIER PERIOD. NOT TO MAKE YOU FEEL OLD. >> Ken Auletta: I AM. IT'S ALL RIGHT >> Ronan Farrow: WHEN YOU WERE TRYING TO CRACK THIS IN 2001, 2002 I'M SURE IT WAS A VERY DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT, AND I'M SURE THAT CONTRIBUTED IN PART TO THE OUTCOME OF THOSE ATTEMPTS. BUT FROM MY STANDPOINT IN THIS MORE RECENT SWATH OF HISTORY, THE ANSWER IS ACTUALLY NO, NOT SO MUCH. I DON'T THINK ANY OF THE REPORTERS I ENCOUNTERED WERE THE PROBLEM. I DON'T THINK I SAW A LOT OF SKEPTICISM ABOUT THE NEWS VALUE OF THESE STORIES. YOU KNOW, EVERY REPORTER WHO SAW THE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE I HAD IMMEDIATELY HAD THE SAME REACTION THAT I HAD, THAT KEN HAD, THAT THE NEW YORKER HAD, THAT THIS WAS A VERY, IMPORTANT STORY THAT WE ALL NEEDED TO FIGHT FOR. YOU KNOW, IT WAS OTHER CATEGORIES OF PEOPLE AROUND THOSE STORIES THAT WERE TRYING TO QUASH IT NOT THE JOURNALISTS. I WILL SAY THAT THERE'S NOW A SET OF TOOLS THAT HAVE BEEN SOMEWHAT REFINED BY THAT GREAT WORK THAT'S COME OUT OF THE "TIMES" AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS. I'D LIKE TO THINK IN PART WHAT THE "NEW YORKER" HAS DONE AS WELL WHERE MAYBE REPORTERS WHO UNDERSTAND IN THE WAY I JUST DESCRIBED THE IMPORTANCE, BUT ARE GRAPPLING WITH HOW TO GO ABOUT IT, HAVE A LITTLE MORE OF A PLAYBOOK TO GO BY. I MEAN, I GET ASKED ALL THE TIME BY STUDENT JOURNALISTS AND BY REPORTERS IN GENERAL SORT OF HOW DO YOU CRACK THIS SORT OF THING WHERE THERE'S A VAST CONSPIRACY AND COVER-UP AND ALL THESE FORCES WORKING TO STOP IT? I HOPE THAT THERE'S SOME LESSONS LEARNED THAT MAKE IT A MORE KIND OF WELL GREASED PROCESS. >> Ken Auletta: I WOULD COME AT IT A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. BECAUSE I'M GOING BACK FURTHER ON THIS. WHEN I GO BACK TO 2002 AND I'M REPORTING ON THE BRUTALITY OF HARVEY'S PERSONALITY. HOW HE VERBALLY ABUSED PEOPLE. HOW HE LITERALLY TOOK A REPORTER, PUT HIM IN A HEAD LOCK AND STARTED PUNCHING HIM. HOW WITH JULIE HE SCREAMED AND THREATENED HER LIFE PARTNER. STACY SHSNIDEER WHO WAS WORKING FOR STEVEN SPIELBERG HE THREATENED HER AND SHE IS A TINY PERSON. I'M SAYING, AS I'M REPORTING THIS, AND I WAS ABLE TO GET THESE PEOPLE TO GO ON THE RECORD WITH WHAT HE HAD DONE, BUT I'M SAYING, WHY AREN'T PEOPLE REPORTING ABOUT HARVEY'S BRUTALITY THEN? AND IT WAS KNOWN. IT WAS VERY COMMON. HE WAS CONSTANTLY APOLOGIZING. WITH ME HE WOULD SAY, I KNOW, I'VE CHANGED. THE FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS I SPENT REPORTING THIS STORY HE PROBABLY THROUGH OR FOUR DIFFERENT -- THREE OR FOUR TIMES SAID I'VE CHANGED. I'VE LEARNED MY LESSON. AND HE HADN'T. I KNEW, BUT I COULDN'T PROVE, IF YOU ARE GOING TO BULLY PEOPLE THAT WAY AND YELL AT THEM AND STUFF, YOU ARE GOING TO BULLY THEM IN OTHER WAYS AS WELL. SEXUALLY. AND IT WAS NOT ON THE RADAR OF THE PRESS AND IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. SO, I'VE -- THINGS HAVE CHANGED. BUT BACK THEN HE GOT AWAY WITH STUFF. AND HE HAD ENABLERS WHO WORKED FOR HIM WHO HELPED HIM. >> IT'S WORTH WROTEING ONE OF THE THING -- NOTING ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS CHANGED THIS QUESTION ABOUT JOURNALISTS, YOU HAVE BEEN LUCKY AT THE NEW YORKER, BUT ONE OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS STORY HAS BEEN JOURNALISTS HAVING TO REPORT THIS IN THEIR OWN NEWSROOM. AND NPR, THE HEAD OF NEWS, FORCED TO STEP DOWN FOR SEXUAL HARASSMENT. NBC CERTAINLY -- >> Ken Auletta: MATT LAUER. >> PART OF THE REASON THEY MAY HAVE BEEN COVERING THIS UP WAS THEY HAD THEIR OWN PROBLEMS WITH MATT LAUER THEY WERE NOT ADDRESSING. SO, NEWS ROOMS HAVE HAD TO COME TO TERMS WITH HOW TO REPORT THIS OUT AND DEAL WITH IT WITHIN THEIR OWN RANKS AND WITHIN THEIR OWN POWER STRUCTURES. AND THAT SEEMS TO, I THINK, BE SOMETHING THAT'S CHANGED >> Ken Auletta: BUT WE THINK OF IT TODAY AS A FELONY, OR EQUIVALENT OF A FELONY. IN 2003, 4, 5, I DON'T THINK WE DID. I DON'T THINK ENOUGH JOURNALISTS THOUGHT OF IT AS A FELONY. >> Ronan Farrow: THAT'S A FANTASTIC POINT. AGAIN THE CBS EXAMPLE IS INSTRUCTIVE THERE WITHOUT COMMENTING ON OTHER NEWS ORGANIZATIONS THAT YOU MENTIONED. AT CBS YOU HAD A CLEAR EXAMPLE OF A PATTERN OF COVER-UPS THAT IN TURN MADE THE COMPANY'S ABILITY TO REPORT ON THE ISSUE COMPROMISED. THE TWO THINGS ARE DEEPLY CONNECTED, AND YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ONE OF THE THINGS CHASZ CHANGED IS THAT THE NEWS BUSINESS HAS HAD ITS OWN RECKONING. ALTHOUGH I WOULD SAY NOT ENOUGH YET AND NOT EVERYWHERE. I WOULD ADD ONE MORE FINE DISTINCTION. BECAUSE THIS IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION THAT YOU ASKED. WHEN I SAY EVERY JOURNALIST I ENCOUNTERED HAD COME AROUND AND REALLY UNDERSTOOD THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS KIND OF EVIDENCE WHEN YOU HAVE IT, IT IS IMPORTANT TO BE A LITTLE GRANULAR ABOUT THE TERM "JOURNALIST" RIGHT? BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS I REPORTED ON FOR INSTANCE WAS HARVEY WEINSTEIN WAS USING THE TABLOID WORLD TO SMEAR ACCUSERS. HE WAS USING THE "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" TO SECRETLY AND AT TIMESELLY RECORD ACCOUNTS FROM PEOPLE THAT HE THOUGHT WOULD BE DAMAGING TO HIS ACCUSERS. THAT IN TURN LED TO A SERIES OF STORIES I BROKE ABOUT DONALD TRUMP USING THE ENQUIRERER IN A SIMILAR WAY. SO, THE TABLOID SEGMENT, WHICH EMPLOYS A LOT OF GREAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE SAME INVESTIGATIVE INSTINCTS WE DO, BUT ALSO HAS BEEN SUBVERTED AND TURNED INTO A TOOL FOR POWERFUL PEOPLE TRYING TO SUPPRESS THINGS. AND TOO OFTEN, I THINK, THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA TOO >> I'M TOM HIGGINS, A LOCAL RESIDENT. I CAME OUT TO HEAR THIS GREAT CONVERSATION TONIGHT. SO, THANK YOU. KEN, YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE REPORTER BEING PUT IN A HEADLOCK. AND I WANT TO ASK BOTH OF YOU ABOUT THAT. I MEAN, WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU WHEN YOU INVESTIGATE OR WHEN YOU REPORT ON THESE BIG GUYS? DO YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR SAFETY? DO THEY CONFRONT YOU IN PERSON? OR WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT? >> Ken Auletta: WELL, WITH HARVEY, WHEN I CONFRONTED HARVEY ABOUT THE RAPE AND THE TWO WOMEN HE PAID THE 250 EACH, THIS WAS IN 02 IN OUR FINAL INTERVIEW. AND I HAD SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH HIM FRIAR THAT. FLY ON THE WALL INTERVIEWING HIM AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO WORKED WITH HIM. I SAID TO HIM, HARVEY, DID YOU RAPE -- AND I NAMED THE WOMAN'S NAME. AND, DID YOU ALSO ABUSE, AND I NAMED THE WOMAN'S NAME. AND HE STOOD UP, JUST THE TWO OF US IN A CONFERENCE ROOM, HIS FORMER WIFE EVE HAD A PLACE WHERE SHE WORKED ON BROADWAY IN THE UPPER 60s. IT WAS JUST THE TWO OF US. IT WAS PROBABLY FIVE OR SIX AT NIGHT. AND HE STOOD UP OVER ME AND CLENCHING HIS FISTS, I'M SEATED AT THIS SMALL CONFERENCE TABLE. HE IS STANDING OVER ME WITH HIS FISTS LIKE THIS AND HIS LIP IS QUIVERING. AND HE IS SCREAMING AT ME. AND AT THAT POINT I SAID I'M NOT GOING TO SIT DOWN AND LET THIS GUY TAKE A PUNCH AT ME. I'M GOING STAND UP AND ACTUALLY I WAS KIND OF HOPING ME WOULD TAKE A PUNCH AT ME. BECAUSE I JUST WANTED TO BEAT THE SON OF A BITCH. AND WE'RE THE SAME HEIGHT. HE IS ABOUT 100 POUNDS HEAVIER BUT I'M FASTER THAN HE IS. AS SOON AS I STOOD UP, HE STARTED TO CRY. AND HE SAID, THESE WERE CONSENSUAL AFFAIRS. THAT'S WHAT HE SAID. I AM A LOUSY HUSBAND, BUT I DID NOT RAPE IS -- AND HE NAMED THE WOMAN. AND I DID NOT ABUSE -- AND NAMED THE OTHER WOMAN. AND IT WAS AN AMAZING INSTANCE. AND ACTUALLY WHAT DO YOU TAKE AWAY FROM THAT? ONE OF THE THINGS YOU TAKE AWAY FROM IT, THE GUY WAS A COWARD. HE WAS A BULLY. AND HE FOLDED. I NEVER FELT IN DANGER. THIS GUY, WE WANT TO HEAR HIS ANSWER, BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY WAS CHASED AND WROTE ABOUT IT. >> Ronan Farrow: WELL, I WROTE ABOUT CERTAINLY THE FACT THAT HARVEY WEINSTEIN HIRED A PRIVATE ISRAELI INTELLIGENCE FIRM FOU FOUNDEDBIES -- BOARD MEMBERS FROM THE MA SOD AND FORMER MEMBERS OF THE MASAUD AND KIND OF MARKETING LIKE A COMBAT-READY SKILL SET, YOU KNOW, FROM ELITE INTELLIGENCE CIRCLES. AND I DID WRITE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE WORK THAT THEY DID TRACKING ACCUSERS. I DID WRITE ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY WERE COMPILING DOSSIERS ON REPORTERS. AND THAT BEYOND JUST THE WORK OF THIS ONE FIRM, BLACK CUBE, THERE WAS A LONGER PATTERN WITH HARVEY WEINSTEIN OF EMPLOYING PI'S TO DO WORK THAT AT THE VERY LEAST BORDERED ON INTIMIDATION, CERTAINLY TO TRY TO SMEAR REPORTERS WHO WERE TRYING TO CRACK THIS STUFF. HE WAS SUCCESSFUL IN USING THAT AS A BULWARK AGAINST THE STORY BREAKING FOR QUITE SOMETIME. I TALKED ABOUT DAVID CARR, THE GREAT MEDIA REPORTER WHO HAD CIRCLED THIS STORY I THINK IN A WAY THAT WAS NOT DISSIMILAR TO YOU. HE WAS PASSIONATE ABOUT IT. HE DIED WANTING VERY MUCH TO BREAK IT. HE HAD HEARD SOME OF THESE ACCOUNTS OF HARASSMENT AND ASSAULT AND WAS NEVER ABLE TO CRACK IT. BUT HE CERTAINLY CAUSED ENOUGH TROUBLE THAT HIS NAME WAS IN ALL OF THOSE FILES THAT I GOT AND, YOU KNOW, HE HAD BEEN TRACKED. HE WAS CONVINCED HE WAS BEING FOLLOWED. AND CERTAINLY HARVEY TOLD HIS PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS THAT HE HAD BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN INTIMIDATING HIM. I HAVE NOT WRITTEN ABOUT THE FULL EXTENT OF THE WORK THAT WAS DONE ON REPORTERS IN THE MORE RECENT KIND OF PRESENT-DAYTIME FRAME >> Ken Auletta: BUT WE CAN LOOK FORWARD TO THAT? >> Ronan Farrow: THAT IS A STORY THAT WILL BE WORTH TELLING AT SOME POINT I'D SAY. BECAUSE IT IS, NOT TO BE GLIB ABOUT IT, THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE TONIGHT. IF YOU ARE WEALTHY ENOUGH AND POWERFUL ENOUGH AND MAYBE ARE CONVINCED YOU ARE LIVING IN A SPY MOVIE OR SOMETHING, YOU CAN ACTUALLY PURCHASE THESE KINDS OF EXOTIC SERVICES TO INTIMIDATE PEOPLE AND SEND THEM ON THE RUN AND MAKE THEM SCARED. AND THAT IS A TACTIC THAT I THINK WE SHOULD REALLY SCRUTINIZE AND MAYBE LOOK AT CURTAILING. I MEAN, I'LL GIVE YOU A PERFECT EXAMPLE HOW UNSCRUTINIZED IT IS SIGNED SAYING KILL THESE STORIES. SECRET AGENTS FROM ISRAEL >> WE HAVE A QUESTION HERE THEN WE'RE GOING TAKE A QUESTION FROM TWITTER >> MY NAME IS HANNAH. I AM A JUNIOR HERE AT U OF M. I'M TAKING A CLASS WITH WILL POTTER WHO IS A KNIGHT WALLACE FELLOW ALSO. SO, THE CLASS IS ACTUALLY CALLED "HOW TO LIVE IN A WORLD ON FIRE". AND AS YOU MIGHT GUESS, IT'S HOW TO LIVE IN THIS WORLD WITH A LOT OF MITS INFORMATION AND PEOPLE CONSTANTLY IN CONFLICT, AND A LOT OF INSTITUTIONS KEEPING PEOPLE IN POWER. AND READING A LOT ABOUT HOW ORDINARY PEOPLE CAN BREAK STORIES LIKE THIS. HOW WRITERS AND COMMUNICATORS IN GENERAL CAN GO AGAINST THESE PEOPLE IN POWER AND BREAK THESE CYCLES THAT ARE HAPPENING OVER AND OVER AGAIN SO, YOU DID MENTION THAT YOU HAD HIT THIS LOW POINT WHERE IT SEEMED LIKE YOU HAD EVERYTHING TO LOSE. AND WE HAVE BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE BEEN IN THE SAME SITUATION. SO, I'M WONDERING EXACTLY WHAT THAT FELT LIKE AND WHAT KIND OF MOTIVATION YOU HAD TO GO FORWARD WITH THAT? BECAUSE AS WE ALL KNOW, BEING IN THAT POSITION IS VERY DIFFICULT AND IT'S VERY EASY TO GIVE UP. IF EVERYTHING IS WORKING AGAINST YOU AND YOU HAVE EVERYTHING TO LOSE AND NOTHING TO GAIN, WHAT EXACTLY KEEPS YOU GOING? AND WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE TO PEOPLE IN THAT SIMILAR SITUATION IN THE FUTURE? >> Ronan Farrow: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT WHAT THE SOURCES IN THOSE STORIES WERE LIVING THROUGH WAS EXPONENTIALLY MORE DIFFICULT THAN ANYTHING I DEALT WITH AS A REPORTER. YOU KNOW, I WASN'T RELIVING INTENSE, PERSONAL TRAUMA. I DIDN'T HAVE TO GRAPPLE WITH THE EXTRA DIMENSION OF NOT ONLY MIGHT MY CAREER FALL APART BUT ALSO I'M GOING TO BE STARING DOWN THIS VERY SPECIFIC KIND OF STIGMA THAT SEXUALLY VIOLENCE CARRIES. THEY WERE DOING SOMETHING INCREDIBLY BRAVE THAT IS ON A LEVEL THAT HONESTLY AS SOMEONE WHO ISN'T A SURVIVOR PROBABLY CAN NEVER FULLY UNDERSTAND. THAT'S NOT UNRELATED TO THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION. I LOOKED AT THOSE EXAMPLES, AND I REALIZED THAT I HAD, YOU KNOW, LOOKED THESE WOMEN IN THE EYE AND SAID, I AM GOING TO DO WRITE BY THIS STORY. YOU KNOW, I PROMISE YOU, I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE I FERRET OUT THE TRUTH ON THIS. AND I REALIZED I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SLEEP AT NIGHT IF I HAD DROPPED IT. AND I WISH I COULD TELL YOU THAT THAT FELT LIKE A SIMPLE IRONCLAD MANDATE THAT KIND OF SETTLED OVER ME. THE TRUTH IS I WAS SCARED, AND I WAS COMPLETELY UNCERTAIN AS TO WHETHER I WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING. AND THERE WAS NO WAY TO KNOW FOR SURE THAT THINGS WOULD UNSPOOL THE WAY THEY DID. AND THAT SOCIETY WOULD BE AS RECEPTIVE TO THOSE STEERS AS ULTIMATELY WE ALL WERE. AGAIN, I WAS COMING OFF OF A PERIOD IN THIS I HAD BEEN TOLD BY, YOU KNOW, MY BOSSES, MY AGENTS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS CAUSING TOO MANY SPEED BUMPS, YOU'VE GOT TO STOP, WHO CARES, IS IT REALLY THAT BIG OF DEAL AND IS IT WORTH IT? HONESTLY, EVEN SOME PEOPLE I TRUSTED, YOU KNOW, LOVED ONES SAID, YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE UP YOUR ABILITY TO TELL ALL THESE OTHER STORIES JUST FOR THIS ONE STORY WHICH MAYBE WON'T EVEN MAKE A DENT? AND THE ONLY LESSON I CAN MAYBE IMPART FROM THAT IS, I AM SURE YOU EITHER HAVE OR WILL ENCOUNTER THE SAME MOMENT WHERE YOU ALL HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING. AND THE BEST THING I HAD TO HANG ON TO WAS, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE VOICE THAT WAS TELLING ME, LIKE, HEY, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR WHAT THE RIGHT THING HERE IS. AND YOU ARE GOING TO LET DOWN YOURSELF AND ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE PUT SO MUCH ON THE LINE IF YOU DON'T DO IT SO, I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE YOU TO LISTEN TO THAT VOICE. [ APPLAUSE ] >> Ken Auletta: YOU HEARD TWO THINGS HERE. I THINK YOU HEARD AN EXPLANATION OF WHY WOMEN FELT COMFORTABLE TALKING. AND THE WORD IS "EMPATHY." THIS GUY EXUDES IT. AND HE GAVE THEM CONFIDENCE THAT HE WAS ON THEIR SIDE. THE SECOND THING THOUGH, I THINK, IN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS THAT YOU'RE A JOURNALIST. AND YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO PROVE THINGS. YOU CAN'T ASSERT THINGS. AND YOU MIGHT BELIEVE THAT SOMEONE IS A MONSTER OR DOING MONSTROUS THINGS, BUT AS A JOURNALIST YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO PROVE IT. WHEN I SAID BEFORE, I WONDERED, RONAN, WHETHER YOU WERE A ZEALOT OR NOT, AND I CAME TO FEEL WERE YOU JUDICIOUS. AND THAT'S WHAT A GOOD JOURNALIST IS SUPPOSED TO BE. AND SO ANYONE -- IF YOU WANT TO GO OUT AND NAIL THAT BASTARD WHO IS DOING THESE TERRIBLE THINGS, PROVE IT. YOU GOT TO PROVE IT. >> Ronan Farrow: IT WAS A PARTICULARLY STARK DILEMMA IN MY CASE BECAUSE I HAD SOMETHING WE SO RARELY HAVE AS REPORTERS, WHICH WAS THIS TREMENDOUS BODY OF EVIDENCE AND PARTICULARLY THE SUBJECT OF THE STORY ADMITTING ON TAPE TO IT. AND SO THAT -- IT MADE IT INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO RATIONALIZE TO MYSELF STOPPING, JUST BECAUSE IT WOULD BE CONVENIENT FOR MY CAREER >> ONE OF OUR KNIGHT WALLACE FELLOWS OF MPR HAS BEEN FOLLOWING TWITTER DURING THE CONVERSATION. DO WE HAVE A QUESTION? >> WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF QUESTIONS. WE HAVE MANY, MANY QUESTIONS. THIS ONE IS FOR YOU, RONAN FARROW. WE'RE SO GLAD YOU ARE HERE. THANKS FOR BEING HERE. DO YOU SEE A CONNECTION BETWEEN YOUR WORK FOR THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND THE SEXUAL ABUSE CAMPAIGN? >> Ronan Farrow: I LOVE THAT QUESTION. DURING ALL OF THESE STORIES THAT WE'VE JUST BEEN DESCRIBING I WAS STRUGGLING TO FINISH A BOOK THAT ALSO HAD BEEN CANCELED BY MY ORIGINAL PUBLISHER FOR IT IN THAT SAME SUMMER WHERE EVERYTHING WENT DOWN. THEY REFUSED TO LOOK AT A SINGLE PAGE OF IT AND I HAD WORKED ON IT FOR FIVE YEARS AND EMBEDDED WITH WARLORDS AND TERRIFIED MY MOM. SO I DECIDED I WASN'T GOING TO GIVE UP ON THAT EITHER. AND PROBABLY THE MATIC LINK THERE IS WHILE THE STAKES ARE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, THAT WAS A BOOK "WAR ON PEACE" WHICH WAS FULL OF WHISTLE-BLOWERS AFRAID FOR THEIR JOBS BUT IN A LOT OF CASES WENT ON THE RECORD ANYWAY. CURRENT FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICERS, TO SAY HEY SOMETHING BAD IS HAPPENING HERE, THERE ARE THESE MASS PURNLS OF ALL OF OUR EXPERTS AND NEGOTIATORS, ALL OF OUR DIPLOMATS, OUR EMBASSIES ARE EMPTY. CRAZY STUFF IS GOING DOWN BECAUSE WE LITERALLY DON'T HAVE ANYONE ATTENDING TO OUR MOST IMPORTANT ALLIANCES AROUND THE WORLD. AND I WOULD HOPE THAT IF YOU READ THAT BOOK, THAT'S THE LINK YOU COME AWAY WITH. IT'S BRAVE PEOPLE MAKING THE STORY POSSIBLE. >> Ken Auletta: REALLY GOOD BOOK BY THE WAY. >> Ronan Farrow: THANK YOU, KEN >> MY NAME IS EMILY. I HAVE BEEN TEACHING HERE FOR 19 YEARS IN WOMEN STUDIES. RIG LUS STUDY SURVEY OF STUDENTS IN 2015 CONDUCTED BY THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF UNIVERSITIES AND ENDORSED BY THE U OF M ADMINISTRATION FOUND THAT OVER 3,000 UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN STUDENTS ARE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED EVERY YEAR. AND EVERY 70% OF UNDERGRADUATE WOMEN STUDENTS HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY HARASSED EVER SINCE ENTERING HERE. THE U OF M OFFICE FOR INSTITUTIONAL EQUITY WHICH HANDLES TITLE # CASES HAS BEEN CRITICIZED FOR IGNORING COMPLAINTS AND CONDUCTING BIAS INVESTIGATIONS THAT PROTECT THE UNIVERSITY. THE REPORT FOR LAST YEAR STATED DESPITE COMPLAINTS GOING WAY UP AFTER ME TOO, TITLE 9 INVESTIGATIONS RESULTED IN ZERO CONFIRMED FINDINGS OF STUDENT SEXUAL ASSAULT FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR! THE ENTIRE YEAR. ZERO. SO, MY QUESTIONS ARE: WOULD YOU LIKE TO RECEIVE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS SUBJECT? [ LAUGHTER ] [ APPLAUSE ] OR WOULD YOU CONSIDER INVESTIGATING THIS MATTER FURTHER OR SENDING WORD OUT TO YOUR COLLEAGUES TO REPORT ON WHY SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT AND HARASSMENT RARELY RECEIVE JUSTICE THROUGH THE UNIVERSITY'S COMPLAINT PROCESS? >> Ronan Farrow: THANK YOU FOR THAT. [ APPLAUSE ] SO I'VE DONE A LOT OF REPORTING ON SEXUAL ASSAULT ON CAMPUS. IT'S INCREDIBLY COMPLICATED AND IMPORTANT SUBSET OF THE ISSUES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. IT'S DEFINITELY PART OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE SET OF ROOTS THAT UNDER PINNED MY PITCHING THAT SEXUAL ASSAULT IN HOLLYWOOD STORY WAS HAVING DONE ALL THIS REPORTING ON CAMPUS ISSUES. LOOK, IT IS A SETTING WHERE PEOPLE ARE IN THEIR FORMATIVE YEARS. YOU'VE GOT KIDS NAVIGATING THESE SAME CHALLENGES THAT I'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT ARE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO SURMOUNT FOR ANYONE OF ANY AGE. PEOPLE ARE AT THEIR MOST VULNERABLE. IT INT SECONDS WITH THE ALCOHOL CULTURE. PEOPLE ARE DRINKING FOR THE FIRST TIME. OBVIOUSLY, AS A SOCIETY WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO TO GET A HEALTHY DRINKING CULTURE IN PLACE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THOSE FORMATIVE YEARS. IT INTERSECTS WITH A WHOLE SEPARATE SET OF ISSUES AND ATTENDANT REPORTING ON FRAT CULTURE IN MANY SCHOOLS. THERE ARE A LOT OF SPACES THAT NEED SERIOUS REFORMS TO CREATE A SAFE SPACE FOR PEOPLE WHO SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO BE SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE AGAIN BUT TOO OFTEN ARE. IN TERMS OF THE SPECIFIC INTRACASEYS OF THE TITLE 9 OFFICES ON THIS CAMPUS AND OTHERS, THOSE SYSTEMS ARE BROKEN. I HAVE NOT REPORTED ON THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN SPECIFICALLY, BUT ACROSS THE COMPANY THEY ARE BROKEN. AND THE STRIKING THING IS THAT BOTH ACCUSERS AND ACCUSED OFTEN WALK AWAY FROM TITLE 9 PROCESSES ON CAMPUS FEELING THAT THE PROCESS WAS UNJUST. THAT THERE WASN'T A FAIR HEARING OF THE FACTS. THERE'S A TRICKLE DOWN FROM GOVERNMENT POLICY TO THE NATURE OF THOSE TRIBUNALS THAT GET SET UP ON CAMPUSES. THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, I THINK IN A WELL-INTENTIONED EFFORT TO CREATE MORE ACCOUNT ABOUT THE, TIED TITLE 9 FUNDING TO THE CREATION OF PARALLEL JUSTICE PROCESSES ON CAMPUS. A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THIS, WAYS FASCINATED TO FIND THIS OUT WHEN REPORTING ON IT. WHAT THEY MANDATED WAS THAT IT BE KIND OF A MINI-COURT SYSTEM THAT A SCHOOL HAS TO SET UP THAT HAS A LOWER BURDEN OF PROOF THAN THE ACTUAL CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. AND IT MAKES SENSE IN THEORY, RIGHT. YOU WANT TO DECREASE THE BARRIER FOR PEOPLE VERY OFTEN WOMEN COMING FORWARD WITH THESE CLAIMS. BUT IN PRACTICE WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IS SCHOOLS THAT HAVE NO EXPERTISE IN THE SUBJECT SET UP THESE KANGAROO COURTS. SOMETIMES THEY'RE STAFFED BY WEALTHY ALUMNI. SOME SCHOOLS DO A BETTER JOB AND THEY TRY TO BRING IN EXPERTS. BUT THERE'S NO REAL GUIDELINES. IT IS A FREE FOR ALL. AND IN A LOT OF CASES WITH SURVIVORS THAT I'VE TALKED TO WHO HAVE DEALT WITH THIS IN A COLLEGE CONTEXT, THEY FEEL LIKE THEY WERE ACTUALLY ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED FROM GOING TO THE POLICE BECAUSE THE SCHOOL WANTED THEM TO DO IT IN THIS PARALLEL PROCESS SO, I'VE JUST OUTLINED TO YOU A WHOLE SLOUGH OF MESSY PROBLEMS AND ABSOLUTELY NO SOLUTIONS. YOU ARE WELCOME. [ LAUGHTER ] >> Ken Auletta: DID YOU SAY 3,000? >> YOU CAN LOOK IT UP. IT'S ALL ONLINE >> Ken Auletta: NOT A SMALL NUMBER >> Ronan Farrow: BASED ON THE NUMBERS YOU ARE SAYING, I WOULD ASSUME THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS SERIOUS WORK HERE AS IT DOES ON SO MANY CAMPUSES. AND, LOOK, I WILL SAY IN A LOT OF CASES THAT I'VE LOOKED AT, AT HARVARD AND OTHER SCHOOLS, STUDENT JOURNALISM PLAYED AN ACTIVE ROLE IN TRIGGERING REFORM. WE'VE JUST TALKED TO SOME WONDERFUL JOURNALISTS HERE ON THIS CAMPUS AND I WOULD HOPE THIS IS SOMETHING THEY'RE LOOKING AT. AND, YES, ALSO, IF YOU HAVE SPECIFIC INFORMATION ABOUT SOMETHING YOU THINK IS A STORY, I WOULD SAY THIS WRIT LARGE FOR ANY OF YOU ON ANY SUBJECT THAT FITS IN THE THEMES OF ABUSE OF POWER OR CORRUPTION, SEND IT TO A REPORTER. THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD ONES. I WOULD LIKE TO THINK I'M ONE OF THEM. I MAY NOT BE ABLE TO TACKLE THIS SUBJECT OR ANY PARTICULAR SUBJECT BUT I'LL AT LEAST DO MY DAMNEDEST TO TAKE A LOOK AND MAYBE ROUTE IT TO ART ROER WHO IS WORKING ON THIS STUFF. ONE OF THE LESSONS -- THEN I'LL SHUNT -- OF KEN AULETTA AND HIS GENEROSITY IS I WAS A JOURNALIST IN NEED -- IT'S NOT EVEN ABOUT THE FACTUAL STATISTICS. I NEEDED TO HEAR FROM SOMEONE I RESPECTED TO KEEP GOING. YOU KNOW, THIS IS WORTH THE FIGHT. AND HE HAS PLAYED SUCH A PIVOTAL, INFLUENTIAL ROLE AS I WAS STRUGGLING WITH THIS THING. THEN I FOUND ALONG THE WAY A COMMUNITY OF OTHER REPORTERS WHO HAD SIMILARLY TRIED AND WERE GENEROUS AND HELPED PEOPLE LIKE BEN WALLACE WHO TRIED AT THE NEW YORK MAGAZINE WHEN THE STORY WAS KILLED THERE. I REALLY CAME AWAY FROM THOSE EXPERIENCES SO COMMITTED TO TRYING TO PAY THAT FORWARD. I DON'T KNOW THAT I'LL EVER BE ABLE TO DO WHAT KEN AULETTA DID IN TERMS OF BASICALLY RESCUING A STORY THAT NEEDED RESCUING. BUT, BOY, I'LL TRY EVERY CHANCE I GET SO, IF ANY OF YOU SEND ME A LEAD AND I CAN'T TACKLE IT, I WILL MOVE MOUNTAINS TO TRY TO GET IT TO SOMEONE GOOD >> Ken Auletta: JUST THINK ABOUT THE PERSON ON THE OTHER END OF THE PHONE. ONE OF THESE HORRIBLE MEN. SIR, RONAN FARROW IS ON THE PHONE FOR YOU. [ LAUGHTER ] [ APPLAUSE ] >> Ronan Farrow: I THINK YOU HAVE PROBABLY EARNED THAT REACTION TOO. PEOPLE DON'T LIKE OUR CALLS. BUT THANK YOU SINCERELY, KEN, FOR EVERYTHING THAT DO YOU. >> JUST TO POINT BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE CONVERSATION, RONAN USED THE PHRASE "THE SYSTEMS ARE BROKEN." IF YOU DIDN'T CATCH KNIT THE BEGINNING, NIECEA KAHN'S STORY ON THIS ISSUE WAS CALLED "BROKEN RECORD." SO IT IS BEING LOOKED AT HERE. AND CERTAINLY SEND YOUR TIPS TO RONAN BUT SEND THEM HERE TOO. AND WE HAVE A QUESTION HERE >> HI MY NAME IS EVELYN WALLACE. I AM A JUNIOR INTERESTED IN LAW SCHOOL. I JUST WANT TO SAY I THINK IT WAS A SOUTH PARK JOKE WHERE THEY SAID YOU ARE GETTING A CALL FROM RONAN FARROW. SO, YOU HAVE MADE IT. [ LAUGHTER ] BUT I JUST WANTED TO ASK -- >> Ronan Farrow: FOR SOMEBODY WHO GREW UP ON "SOUTH PARK" THAT GOT ME A LITTLE RECLEM PT. >> IT GOT MY EXCITED TOO. MY BROTHERS KNEW WHO YOU WERE. IT WAS A BIG DEAL. BUT I JUST WANTED TO ASK RONAN SPECIFICALLY GIVEN YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND GOING TO LAW SCHOOL, ESPECIALLY AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE THANK YOU, YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY COMING AT THIS IN A JOURNALISTIC STANDPOINT AND THAT'S BEEN WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE THE BIGGEST IMPACT. BUT I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK THE FUTURE OF THE #MeToo MOVEMENT AND SEXUAL VIOLENCE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT IS GOING TO LOOK AT AT THE GOVERNMENT AND LEGAL LEVEL WHEREAS YOU WERE SAYING, KEN, IT WASN'T CALLED A FELONY UNTIL ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO. SO, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE THESE LEGAL STRUCTURES IN PLACE AND IN THEORY, IF SOMEONE SPEAKS UP THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE PROTECTED BY WHATEVER OFFICIAL SOURCE THEY GO THROUGH. BUT, OBVIOUSLY, THESE ARE THINGS HAPPENING IN SENATE OFFICES, IN PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS OFFICES. SO, I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF YOU SEE IT GOING FORWARD PRIMARILY OR EVEN ONLY AS A NEWS ARTICLE THAT CHANGE IS MADE? OR WHETHER YOU THINK THERE'S GOING BE LEGAL RECOURSE AND GOVERNMENTAL CHANGE TO STOP IT AS A NATION? >> Ronan Farrow: THERE HAS TO BE POLICY REFORM AND LEGISLATIVE REFORM. AND ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE BEEN MOST EXCITED BY AND INSPIRED BY IS WE'VE SEEN SOME TENTATIVE STEPS TOWARDS THAT AT STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY AND AT A FEDERAL LEVEL THERE'S BEEN LEGISLATION INTRODUCED AS WELL. CERTAINLY DIFFERENT STATES ARE OVERHAULING THE WAYS IN WHICH NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS ARE HANDLED. THERE HAVE BEEN EFFORTS TO CURTAIL THE USE OF THE KINDS OF AGREEMENTS HARVEY WEINSTEIN USED IN CASES INVOLVING SEXUAL ASSAULT AND HARASSMENT. CORPORATE POLICY IS ALSO REALLY IMPORTANT HERE. I MENTIONED THE COMPANIES THAT HAVE SORT OF ENDED THEIR RELIANCE ON NDA'S IN THAT CONTEXT. ALL OF THAT IS IMPORTANT. IF IT DOESN'T GET BAKED INTO OUR SYSTEMS IN OUR CULTURE, THEN THE REFORM MIGHT WELL SLIP AWAY SO, I THINK ALL OF US AS VOTERS AND MEMBERS OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HAVE TO KEEP THE FIRE UNDER PEOPLE TOO. YOU KNOW, THIS IS INCUMBENT ON OUR LEGISLATORS. AND THEY REALLY CAN MAKE SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES THAT WILL MATTER >> LET'S TAKE ANOTHER QUESTION HERE ON THIS SIDE. >> HI. I'M LAUREN. I AM A FRESHMAN HERE AT MICHIGAN. SORRY I HAD TO WRITE MY QUESTION DOWN TO MAKE SURE IT DIDN'T SOUND WEIRD. SO, HOW DO YOU THINK YOUR ROLE OR POSITION AS A MAN AFFECTED YOUR ABILITY TO BREAK THIS STORY? AND DO YOU THINK IF YOU WERE A WOMAN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN AS SERIOUSLY OR BEEN AS SUCCESSFUL? >> Ronan Farrow: SO, STRUCTURAL SEXISM IS A THING, IF YOU DIDN'T NOTICE. [ LAU [ LAUGHTER ] I'VE REALLY HAD TO ACTUALLY PUSH HARD, YOU KNOW, FOR INSTANCE WHEN I TALK ABOUT THESE STORIES PUBLICLY AS I BREAK THEM, TO RE-DIRECT ATTENTION TOWARDS THE WOMEN WHOSE ZOISZ AT THE HEART -- VOICES WERE AT THE HEART OF THIS THING. I THINK THAT GETS AT THE POINT YOU ARE ASKING ABOUT. NOT JUST INDIVIDUALS BUT THE KIND OF HIGH LEVEL FORCES THAT GUIDE THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION DO GRAVITATE TOWARDS PRIVILEGED PEOPLE, WHITE PEOPLE, MALE PEOPLE. AND I THINK THE MORE WE CAN ALL DO TO PUSH TO HAVE VOICES HEARD THAT AREN'T HEARD ENOUGH, WE'VE GOT TO. AND I TRY IN EVERY CONVERSATION I HAVE, YOU KNOW, FOR INSTANCE TO REALLY TALK EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THE WORK OF WOMEN REPORTERS WHO ARE PIVOTAL TO THIS COMING PUBLIC, TO TALK ABOUT THOSE SOURCES. >>> IN TERMS OF THE ACTUAL REPORTING PROCESS, IT WAS A BARRIER. IT WAS AN OBSTACLE. YOU'RE ASKING WOMEN IN A LOT OF CASES TO TALK VERY GRAPHICALLY ABOUT THESE INCREDIBLY PERSONAL EXPE EXPERIENCES. AND THAT JUST TAKES A LOT OF TIME AND BUILDING TRUST AND ASSURING THEM OF EXACTLY WHAT YOU HOPE TO ACCOMPLISH AND YOUR COMMITMENT TO FERRETING OUT THE TRUTH. IT TAKES, I THINK AS A GUY ESPECIALLY, REALLY LETTING SOURCES CONTROL THEIR DESTINY. SO, THIS IS AN INTERESTING POINT. YOU KNOW, NOT ALL OF THE REPORTERS WHO WORKED ON THIS STORY AND OTHER STORIES ON THIS BEAT NECESSARILY ADHERE TO AN IRONCLAD RULE WHERE IF SOMEONE DOESN'T WANT TO BE NAMED, YOU DON'T NAME THEM. AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S EVIL OR WRONG. IT IS A CASE-BY-CASE DECISION. AND I'VE SEEN REPORTERS THAT I REALLY LIKE AND RESPECT. FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, NAME AB ACCUSER OF SOMEONE WHO IS BEGGING NOT TO BE NAMED BECAUSE THEY HAVE THAT NAME IN DOCUMENTS. AND THERE WERE TIMES IN THESE STORIES WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WHERE WE GET CALLS FROM UPSET SOURCES SAYING THIS OTHER REPORTER IS GOING TO NAME ME AND I'M CRYING TELLING THEM NOT TO. I THINK TO THE EXTENT THAT GENDER INTERSECTED WITH MY REPORTING PROCESS, IT REDUCED THE SPACE I MIGHT HAVE HAD TO DO THAT. YOU KNOW, WHETHER THAT'S RIGHT OR WRONG, AND IT'S VERY HARD TO JUDGE. >> THE OUTSIDE. YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE REPORTERS WERE WEIGHING IN TERMS OF PROS AND CONS OF THOSE DECISIONS. BUT FOR ME PERSONALLY, WHEN I WAS FACED WITH THE SAME DECISION, SOMETIMES ABOUT THOSE SAME SOURCES, I ALWAYS WENT WITH NOT NAMING THEM. EVEN WHEN IT MEANT LOSING A SCOOP AND SOMETIME IS DID LOSE THE SCOOP AS A RESULT. BECAUSE I JUST, YOU KNOW, I WAS TREADING IN TERRITORY THAT WAS NOT TOTALLY MY OWN. AND PART OF THAT WAS THE GENDER DYNAMICS THERE. I REALLY FELT LIKE I HAD TO WORK TO HONOR WHAT THESE WOMEN WERE DOING AND TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I COULDN'T FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A WOMAN IN THAT SITUATION AND TO LET THEM CALL THE SHOTS >> LET'S TAKE ANOTHER QUESTION FROM TWITTER. [ APPLAUSE ] >> THIS ONE IS DIRECTED TO YOU BOTH. HOW CAN JOURNALISTS COVER ABUSES OF POWER IN AN ERA WHEN THE RESOURCES FOR NEWS GATHERING ARE DECREASING? >> Ronan Farrow: WHERE IS THE D DISEMBODIED TWITTER VOICE COMING FROM? I JUST WANTED TO SAY HI. THANK YOU. [ LAUGHTER ] >> Ken Auletta: I WANT TO HEAR THE QUESTION AGAIN. I WAS SPENDING SO MUCH TIME LOOKING FOR YOU. >> NOW YOU CAN SEE ME. THE VOICE OF TWITTER. THE MOUTH PIECE. HOW CAN JOURNALISTS COVER ABUSES OF POWER IN AN ERA WHERE THE RESOURCES FOR NEWS GATHERING ARE DECREASING? >> Ken Auletta: IT'S HARDER. YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENED TO LOCAL NEWS COVERAGE ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I MEAN, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NEWSROOM THAT ARE DEPLETED. NEWSPAPERS THAT HAVE GONE OUT OF BUSINESS. YOU LOOK AT THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE FOR INSTANCE DOESN'T HAVE REPORTERS IN THE STATE CAPITOL. AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ACROSS THE COUNTRY THIS IS TRUE. SO, THE CHECK THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE WHERE PEOPLE ARE CALLING US AND SAYING WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN DOING THIS STORY ON THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN OR COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY OR WHATEVER, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT BODY OF REPORTERS TO PURSUE THAT. OR THEY'RE SO BUSY BECAUSE THE NEWSROOMS ARE SO DEPLETED THEY DON'T HAVE TIME. AND IN BETWEEN THE CRACKS OF WHAT RONAN IS SAYING, AND I DON'T MEAN CRACKS IN TERMS OF WISE CRACKS, FUNDAMENTAL TO WHAT HE DID AND HIS SUCCESS IS HE HAD THE LUXURY OF TIME. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT AT THE WALLACE HOUSE TODAY WITH THE FELLOWS. HE HAD -- THIS IS NOT A STORY, DEAR EDITOR, I'D LIKE TO BREAK FOR YOU TOMORROW THAT YOU JUST PUT ME ON TODAY. YOU WILL HAVE TO LET ME DEVOTE WEEKS, MONTHS MAYBE TO GET -- TO REPORT ON LES MOONVES OR HARVEY WEINSTEIN OR WHOEVER. AND IT'S VERY HARD TO DO IN A DEPLETED NEWS INDUSTRY SO, I WORRY ABOUT THAT. AND PARTICULARLY LOCAL COVERAGE WHICH HAS SLIMMED DOWN >> WE'VE GOT TWO QUESTIONS HERE THAT WE'LL TAKE QUICKLY. >> I HAD A COMMENT ACTUALLY. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE SAID. I HAVE TO SAY THAT I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH THE PRESENTATIONS TONIGHT. RONAN FARROW BEGAN HIS PUBLIC CAREER AS AN ACCOMPLISHED OF RICHARD HOLBROOK AND HILLARY CLINTON, TWO FIGURES RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE BLOOD THAN THIS ENTIRE LECTURE HALL COULD HOLD IN WASHINGTON'S NAKED PURSUIT OF ITS GEOPOLITICAL INTEREST IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND CENTRAL ASIAN KNOWN AS THE WAR ON TORN. FARROW WENT ON TO HELP LAUNCH THE ME TOO SEXUAL WITCH HUNT WHICH HAS UNDERMINED THE PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE AND DUE PROCESS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONDITIONS OF WOMEN, WORKING CLASS WOMEN IN PARTICULAR. THE DESTRUCTION OF LIVES AND CAREERS AS A McCARTHY-IZED CAMPAIGN WHICH HAS CREATED AN ATMOSPHERE IN INTIMIDATION AND TERROR. [ INAUDIBLE ] >> Ken Auletta: I FEEL NEGLECTED. WHAT IS MY CRIME? >> Ronan Farrow: WHERE'S KEN? >> Ken Auletta: DON'T I HAVE A CRIME? [ LAUGHTER ] >> Ronan Farrow: I'LL TAKE THAT POINT BY POINT. BUT HE IS WALKING OUT KEN >> Ken Auletta: NO, DON'T. THANK YOU. NEXT QUESTION >> Ronan Farrow: I'M HAPPY TO RESPOND TO ALL OF THAT. >> Ken Auletta: YOU DON'T HAVE TO. >> Ronan Farrow: YOU SHOULD SEE MY TWITTER MENTIONS. THAT'S TAME. [ LAUGHTER ] >> [ INAUDIBLE ] DO WE HAVE SOMEONE JUMPING IN LINE. >> I WOULD SAY MY QUESTION HAS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT TONE. [ LAUGHTER ] MY NAME IS BEN MILLER I AM A FRESHMAN HERE AT U OF M. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD COMMENT ON THE POLITICALIZATION OF THE #MeToo MOVEMENT ESPECIALLY AFTER THE BRETT KAVANAUGH HEARINGS LAST YEAR, AND HOW WE AS A COUNTRY CAN OVERCOME SOME OF THE DIVISIVENESS THAT HAS BEEN ESPECIALLY RELEVANT AND PERTINENT IN OUR POLITICAL -- >> Ken Auletta: COULD YOU DEFINE WHAT YOU MEAN BY POLITICALIZATION OF THE #MeToo MOVEMENT. >> I THINK ESPECIALLY DURING THE BRETT KAVANAUGH HEARINGS WE SAW WITH CHRISTINE BLASEY FORD ESPECIALLY AROUND THE COUNTRY, THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A VERY DIVISIVE ISSUE. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE VERY STRONG OPINIONS ON IT. PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE KAVANAUGH EFFECT IN THE 2018 MID-TERMS. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD COMMENT ON THAT. >> Ken Auletta: YOU MEAN POLITICALIZATION IS NOT BY THE #MeToo MOVEMENT IT'S BY THE CRITICS OF THE #MeToo MOVEMENT. >> Ronan Farrow: YES. IT IS A POINT THAT I THINK ABOUT A LOT SO, I'M IN THIS REMARKABLE POSITION WHERE SORT OF INTERSPERSED WITH THE ALL CAPS DEATH THREATS ARE BOTH TWEETS FROM PEOPLE SAYING, YOU'RE A TRUMP LACKEY, YOU KNOW, ALL YOU DO IS TAKE DOWN DEMOCRATS AFTER THE ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN -- SCHNEIDERMAN WAS A PROMINENT DEMOCRAT WHO WAS INVESTIGATING TRUMP. HARVEY WEINSTEIN AND LES MOONVES WERE PROMINENT DEMOCRATIC DONORS. HARVEY WEINSTEIN WAS A VERY CLOSE ALLY OF HILLARY CLINTON'S. SO I GET THIS SUSPICION THAT I'M SOMEHOW AN AGENT OF THE RIGHT WING ROUTINELY. AND THEN I ALSO GET, YOU KNOW, THE MOMENT I TURN TO A SUBJECT THAT ISN'T FLATTERING ABOUT A CONSERVATIVE, THE BARRAGE OF, YOU KNOW, CHOICE TWEETS FROM THAT CROWD. SAYING, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE A LIBERAL HACK AND INSOL. WHAT ARE THE TERMS? YOU GET LIKE THE LITTLE FROG MEME. I GET ALL THE RACIST WITH THE X BY THEIR NAMES. SOME OF IT IS VERY CLEARLY PART OF THE KIND OF MACHINERY OF TWITTER HARASSMENT THAT HAPPENS TODAY. IT'S NOT REAL PEOPLE. IT'S LIKE TWITTER EGGS WITH NO FOLLOWERS. AND LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE AMAGA THING IN THEIR PROFILE. BUT SOME OF IT DOES REFLECT A GENUINE CONDITION THAT WE ALL LIVE IN NOW. WHICH IS EVERYTHING GETS THRUST INTO THIS CALDRON OF PARTISAN MISTRUST. AND WHAT'S SADDENING ABOUT THAT IS IT'S FUNDAMENTALLY ANTITHETICAL TO WHAT WE DO AS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTERS. SO, I'LL DO A -- IF THE EVIDENCE IS THERE, I'LL DO A BODY OF REPORTING ABOUT ANY ANYONE OF ANY PERSUASION. I DON'T CARE. TO THE EXTENT I'M IN IT I'M IN IT BECAUSE I'M AMBITIOUS ABOUT GETTING THE BIG STORY. AND THERE IS SUCH A SHRINKING SPACE FOR THAT KIND OF APPROACH AND FOR ANY KIND OF UNDERSTANDING THAT SOMEONE MIGHT GENUINELY HAVE THAT APPROACH. YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS THE ASUMENTD PGS THAT YOU MIGHT BE ON OUR SIDE OR ON THE OTHER SIDE AND THIS SORT OF CRUSHING DISAPPOINTMENT WHEN IT PROVES OUT THAT YOU ARE NOT ON ANY OF THE SIDES. AND THE MORE SPECIFIC WAY THAT THAT PLAYS OUT IS YOU MENTIONED THE KAVANAUGH REPORTING. I MEAN, WE AT THE NEW YORKER, JANE MARE AND I, BROKE THE FIRST DETAILS OF THE BLASEY FORD ALLEGATION, AND IT WAS THE "WASHINGTON POST" SUBSEQUENTLY DID GREAT REPORTING WHERE SHE WENT ON THE RECORD. AND IT WAS AN IMPORTANT STORY. YOU KNOW, IT WAS A CLAIM THAT CONGRESS WAS HOLDING ON TO. AND THAT HADN'T BEEN LOOKED AT DEPPFULY BUT WAS GAINING MOMENTUM AS A SOURCE OF RANCOR WITHIN THE RELEVANT COMMITTEES. SO, REGARDLESS OF IT'S TRUTH A HUGELY IMPORTANT STORY AT THAT MOMENT IN HISTORY. THEN ONCE WE BEGAN DIGGING INTO IT, THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT BODY OF EVIDENCE THAT NEEDED TO BE PRESENTED TO THE PUBLIC. SO, THAT THEY COULD DECIDE WHAT THEY THOUGHT ABOUT THIS. WE SUBSEQUENTLY DID REPORTING AR AROUND DEBRA RA MIR'S'S ALLEGATION WHICH HAD A REMARKABLE AMOUNT OF CORROBORATION BEHIND IT, INCLUDING SOMEONE WHO HAD SEEN HER CRYING RIGHT AFTER ALL THOSE YEARS AGO AND HADN'T TALKED TO HER SINCE. THIS IS A STORY THAT HAD LIVED FOR YEARS AND YEARS IN THE YALE COMMUNITY. THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE OTHERS TOO. AND THE THING THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE THAT KIND OF ENVIRONMENT OF PARTISAN SNIPING AND IT TURNS INTO THE KIND OF CIRCUS THAT IT TURNED IN TO THERE, AND THE TWITTER BOT FARMS GET SPUN UP, YOU WIND UP WITH SOURCES SHUTTING DOWN. AND THAT WAS A BIGGER STORY THAT THE PUBLIC DIDN'T SEE IN FULL BECAUSE OF THE ATMOSPHERE OF PARTISANSHIP THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. I WOULD ARGUE THAT THAT IS AS UNFAIR TO THE ACCUSERS THAT YOU HEARD FROM AND THAT YOU DIDN'T, AS IT IS TO BRETT KAVANAUGH WHO DESERVED A FULL AIRING OF THE FACTS, AND NOW HAS THIS SORT OF AMORE FIS PALL OVER HIS TENURE ON THE COURT THAT'S COMPLETELY UNRESOLVED AND THAT HAS MANIFESTED NOT IN FACT-BASED INQUIRY GOING FORWARD, BUT IN JUST THIS KIND OF TWITTER TROLL WAR. >> Ken Auletta: CAN I VOLUNTEER A FACT BASED FACT. YOU'VE GOT A PLANE TO CATCH. >> Ronan Farrow: WELL I HATE THE PARTISANSHIP AND I HOPE THAT FACT BASED REPORTING IS AN ANTIDOTE TO IT. [ APPLAUSE ] >> I HOPE YOU ALL ENJOYED THE CONVERSATION. AGAIN, I THANK ALL OF YOU FOR COMING OUT. IT'S NICE TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE HERE ENGAGED IN A REAL CONVERSATION. AND EVEN WHEN WE HAD AN ATTEMPT TO PULL IT AWAY FROM CONVERSATION, I APPRECIATE THE CIVILITY OF THE AUDIENCE AND OF OUR GUESTS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE PRIZE HERE IS HEARING ALL SIDES. AND ENGAGING PEOPLE IN REAL CONVERSATION. BECAUSE WE SPEND SO MUCH OF OUR TIME NOW WITH OUR HEADS IN DEVICES AND YELLING AT OUR TV'S AND AT OUR PHONES AND YELLING AT PEOPLE IN ALL CAPS ON TWITTER, THIS IS A GOOD SPACE TO BE IN. AND WHEN WE SPEND SO MUCH TIME HEARING OPINIONS, I WANT TO JUST UNDERSCORE THAT WE HAVE TWO REPORTERS ON STAGE. AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, THE IN THE WEEDS PART, IS REPORTING. NOT PROSECUTORIAL, OPINION-DRIVEN ATTACKS, BUT REPORTING AND LOOKING FOR FACTS AND BEING OPEN TO WHERE THE FACTS TAKE YOU. AND THAT IS JOURNALISM. YOU WILL SEE WHEN YOU GO OUT THERE'S A WALLACE HOUSE TABLE. WE HAVE SOME PINS. I'M WEARING ONE. SEVERAL PEOPLE ARE WEARING THEM. AND THEY'RE VERY SIMPLE STATEMENTS OF WHAT WE BELIEVE JOURNALISM'S PLACE IN SOCIETY. ONE, THE ONE I'M WEARING, IS SOMETHING UTTERED BY OUR OWN UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT WHO AT ONE OF OUR EVENTS STOOD UP AND SAID A VERY SIMPLE SENTENCE. "JOURNALISTS, CHAMPIONS OF THE PEOPLE." WE LIKE THAT SENTENCE MUCH BETTER THAN THE OTHER SENTENCE THAT IS UTTERED ABOUT JOURNALISTS NOW THAT WE ARE ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE. SO, JOURNALISTS CHAMPIONS OF THE PEOPLE. AND THE OTHER PEN SAYS "UPHOLD DEMOCRACY: SUPPORT JOURNALISTS." AND WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THIS IS A PILLAR OF OUR DEMOCRACY. SOMETHING ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT POLICY CHANGE, LEGISLATIVE CHANGE. WITHOUT JOURNALISTS DOING THEIR WORK, WE CAN'T GET TO SOME OF THE CHANGE THAT WE NEED AT THE SMALL LEVELS, AT THE STATE LEVELS, AT THE NATIONAL LEVELS. AND SO KEN AND RONAN THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK, THANK YOU FOR TAKING TIME TO OUT OF OUR WORK TO COME HERE AND THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING IN THE CONVERSATION. [ APPLAUSE ] >> Ronan Farrow: AND THANK YOU TO THE FELLOWSHIP. THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ]
