Tucker Carlson and Don Lemon: What Happened?

okay we're back everyone and we're talking about all these crazy firings that are happening in the media World Jeff shell the CEO of NBC Universal was fired yesterday and this morning we got the news out of the blue Tucker Carlson was fired from Fox ostensibly uh they issued a pretty terse press release so it's a real mystery what was happening behind the scenes is uh our upcoming lawsuits do they have more material and there is Brian hi Brian how are you doing I'm good welcome to Instagram live is this your first Instagram live I believe it is oh wow well welcome congratulations and it's great to have you and I was just telling our audience Brian that it has been a crazy uh I guess day and a half in in media because we have Jeff shell uh the NBC Universal CEO getting fired yesterday Tucker Carlson and now Don Lemon so where Did We Begin Brian uh you want to start with do you want to start with Tucker I think that's um seems to be the most shocking only because he was a cash cow for Fox uh he didn't seem to be uh the mo the guiltiest party in terms of disseminating lies about the election it was very clear that the way he felt privately was very different than many of the things that he said publicly so what happened with Tucker Carlson and it did seem to to come out of the blue Brian it really is kind of a surprise this is their most popular Prime Time anchor this guy generating three and four million people a day for each of his programs you know there's a lot of speculation going around did was there something there are other court cases that foxes about to Grapple with smartmatic there's one from a former former Fox News producer used to work for Tucker Carlson or their alligator Creations in these suits that fox is aware of that perhaps they know more than we do about his about what's going on or is it really just you know they just had a reliable for a massive payment for defamation uh settlement with uh Dominion voting are they looking to cut costs the Tucker's show as popular as it is has no mainstream advertising National advertisers do not advertise in this program they're afraid of being called out by activists and critics uh they're afraid of being aligned with some of his uh you know I guess uh less Savory comments and Views and so that show is not going to talk easiness to sell the advertisers for several years now well they've got a lot of buy pillow commercials on there Brian you know sometimes I watch Fox because I want to see how various media Outlets are framing important issues and you're right if the advertising seemed pretty pretty sparse but someone we know who knows Fox pretty well believes that and I didn't see the this I was not watching Tucker Carlson's show the night immediately after the Dominion settlement but they thought that he doubled down on this idea of a stolen election and Rupert Murdoch had just had it what are you hearing from inside Fox and in terms of how Rupert Murdoch was feeling about the settlement and perhaps about some of his anchors well there's a lot of speculation this is a massive payment it is someone was was giving me some figures it could fuel reality theories for for half a year or more fuel movie movie production it's a massive amount it is the biggest amount I believe he paid in defamation suit or settlement in history and so you know it's about almost almost a quarter of what boss has on cash in his corporate bank so it's not no small amount and I suspect the murderer you know make money they're not that's a first and foremost and their track record at picking out anchors for prime time has worked in the past they've lost Megan Kelly and Bill O'Reilly people thought never done that they bounced right back so I I think they're betting that they can find someone else who may be more in line with their uh current you know let not fire brand way of of dealing with things especially with a 24 election about coming into the into the into the world view uh I suspect the murdochs are kind of like you know let's look at our money and see where it's going to be coming from next uh but um you know somebody asked uh my friend preet bharara asked so what happens to the January 6 footage Tucker was given do you have any ideas great question and a lot of other meteors have have filed you know suits asking for answers to that I think uh the speaker of the house is supposed to be able to descend the night as the SEC fit but it's another thing that I think Carlson has been on the maybe the wrong side of in hindsight uh you know these are not good topics for Fox discuss them right now they are clearly under scrutiny someone's got a roadmap that had a sue Fox and make money off of them there's another lawsuit in the works of a year and a half away from here and you know I think the murders are kind of like you know someone just figured how to get cash from us let's figure out a way to not pay that cash out and you know what's interesting is somebody told me that smartmatic had absolutely 0.0 interest in settling so as you said who knows what more material might be found during Discovery and if they I I guess it could mean a drip drip drip for Fox News but how do you think this really affects the smartmatic lawsuit if at all well smart if they have a road map they know doctors are out there um the lawyer has come out recently saying we're not looking to settle we're looking to move forward thanks a million for getting started we're gonna finish it off and that could be that could be courtroom time that could be you know bouncing back and forth um in their own effort to get a hefty settlement by the way they've asked for twice as much as Dominion has asked for 2.7 billion dollars on that 1.6 not no Small Change in that would you know if bigger fossil make some more money over the next year and a half to offset that but still not money you want to be giving out at this time when people are figuring out how to stream how to get ad money this is not a time to be losing money and and complete your cash Reserve but do you think that fox thinks that smartmatic may look more favorably on what they did because people are being held accountable it's my it's a theory I I don't know is that true I don't know I mean the damage is already done these are about things that happened in the past not what's going to happen in the future so I mean I got rid of Lou Dobbs immediately and that did nothing just on the tide so I have to think that you know whatever this is about you know Dan bongino a hard right weekend host for Fox who's a big hero of his conservative circles was uh out not out it could come to a contract last week so this you start to see things are happening over there where some of their harder right personalities may be you know exiting well it's interesting Brian stelter who uh voraciously covered Fox during his time at CNN quotes Newsmax CEO Chris Ruddy is saying for a while Fox News has been moving to become establishment media and Tucker Carlson's removal is a big milestone in that effort millions of viewers who like the old Fox News have made the switch to Newsmax and Tucker's departure will only fuel that I'm not quite sure that's exactly true I don't think Newsmax is killing it in terms of ratings but they're clearly trying to uh position themselves as the far right choice uh the far right option between Fox News and Newsmax and I and so do you think this is going to help Newsmax and do you think Tucker Carlson could end up there I think Tucker has enough money to last for a generation with him and his family alley he needs to work ever again he wants the platform he wants his Voice come on no he can go he can start his own podcast and and with digital site and get subscriptions and do whatever he likes going for he's like hey he had the Daily Caller for a while as his own as his own Outlet he can do that again very quickly he can fund anything he might like immediately and go and go on air and uh you know get picked up that way if he really he doesn't need to be heard and she wants to be part of that mix um a smaller venue I think it's hard in today's world to make a cable network a big success in today's today's uh you know media economy so I'm not sure about that but uh you know look Fox I'll before everyone say about Fox they continue to generate pretty big sizeable hits Greg those late night show doing pretty well the five draws more viewers than Tucker Carlson at five o'clock in the afternoon and some of the personalities there Jesse Waters and others are have their own show so Fox is continuing to come to put out other people other Generations new younger generational viewers of anchor and I should say to keep their viewers uh you know uh keep coming back I have to give you some of this sort of like developing information as we're talking Steve bataglio who we both know from the LA Times rights the decision to fire Tucker Carlson came straight from Fox chairman Rupert Murdoch according to people familiar with the situation who were not authorized to comment that is this Theory from our friend who used to work at Fox News that Rupert just got fed up with him yeah I believe that that I think a decision like this could only come from the murdochs not from Suzanne Scott not from Jay Wallace not from Mead Cooper the head of prime time this is this is a major personality uh the anchor of their Prime Time lineup in terms of attitude and you know uh the the news of the day disconnect from anyone another is this from the LA Times too Adriana that Carlson Carlson's exit is related to the Discrimination lawsuit filed by Abby grossberg you want to describe what that lawsuit entails real quickly for us Brian absolutely there's a former producer named Abby grossberg who has filed suit right around right just as the Dominion voting was coming to a trial she's alleging that uh she was coerced into making family for the Dominion but also that things are going on at Tucker's show where she used to work that were you know anti-semitic uh making fun of minorities not a safe place for some people to be that is a allegation this dog's box three years since Roger Ailes was ousted about how safe A place it is for female workers and people of colors I suspect that may have been a straw that more gosh that was a bridge too far to mix metaphors all right well let's I think we can move on there's some interesting stuff about Ray Epps who Carl uh Tucker Carlson uh said he was an FBI plant without any evidence a Texas man who participated in the storm me the capital but didn't enter the building he was interviewed on 60 Minutes and said he'd been subjected to death threats as a result of Tucker Carlson's statements about him the FBI also 60 told 60 Minutes that Epps had never worked for them so it seems like it's Death By A Thousand Cuts right I mean cuts are a thousand uh I don't know worse than Cuts but just he kept pursuing these bogus claims and uh who knows if Rupert Murda got sick of it so interesting and do you think he you know there was a lot of speculation Tucker Carlson would run for president do you think that would ever happen that's continued to be a theme going along you know he's I've interviewed him on this he's denied his interest in that kind of thing but you know like times have just changed all right let's move on to Don Lemon shall we so Don Lemon said he was stunned but CNN uh Communications also so Don Lemon do we have the CNN uh Communications thing so Don Lemon in a statement so he got fired Don he said he was stunned he was informed by his agent not CNN management correct meanwhile CNN Communications issued a statement saying Don lemon's statement about this morning's events is inaccurate he was offered an opportunity to meet with management but instead released a statement on Twitter sounds like it's getting pretty ugly between Don and CNN because you're both bad breakups you know when it went to Anchors did not a chance to say goodbye in the final show or when the anchor puts out a statement ahead of the network these are not these defenses are not insane because your bad breakups on both sides uh these are these are not animal gold departures and so so let's talk about what led to Don hi everybody if you're just joining us so a lot of times Brian we want to remind people I'm talking to Brian Steinberg who covers media for variety Brian how long have you been at variety 10 years now 10 years and so you've been pretty deep in the weeds at all these organizations and so Brian and I have been talking about Tucker Carlson who was fired even though Tucker claimed they parted ways um it's pretty clear that he got in uh modern day parlance chick hand right Brian from Fox News and now we're talking about Don Lemon and the same uh the same fate he was met with the same fate uh this morning he had some there was some tension on the set very ostensibly and reportedly yelled and and lost his temper at Caitlyn Collins and there was all sorts of stuff happening behind the scenes and then when Nikki Haley announced she was running for president she made sort of a snide comment about Joe Biden's age in response Don uh in in a really clueless tone-death way talked about how women are not in their Prime uh or are in their Prime in their 20s and 30s and maybe not even in their 40s and you should Google it and it was just really putting his foot in his mouth in a major way Brian so he got tremendous pushback from that of I have Lisa lamb the Canadian broadcaster who was sort of unceremoniously fired and a lot of people thought it was age discrimination she said to me on our podcast I was gobsmacked at the innocent idiocy of that comment there was a sanctimonious quality to the Google It part that I just was stunned at and I'm exhausted by the head against the brick wall nature of a comment like that obviously he wouldn't have said it if he didn't feel there was some kind of acceptability in in society to make a comment like that and that's a sad statement um she went on to say some more about that um and I asked her about her comment Brian that he was fired and she said my reaction I guess he's passed his prime so there are a lot of people who are reacting that way he um so is that do you think what prompted his firing or was it continuing no no chemistry between him and as co-anchors you said something interesting to me about what was reported in the New York Post last week can you share that with our audience yes are you hearing me again yeah I'm hearing you yeah it's our understanding the White House Press Secretary Vault on a CNN employee interview because of Don Lemon uh I I've talked to people I've confirmed that as accurate that they could not book her last week because she was was wary of being appearing next to Don I think she's in the past even weighed in on this conference from the from the White House Podium um but this this comment that I made has not has continued to haunt him and it's my understanding of having problems booking people on the show and the ad sales at Warner the parent company has been complaining they can't sell this show the chemistry is one thing it has continued to be an issue it's hard to come back from something like that but the comment he made you know meant the top audience of these morning programs are women between 25 and 54 that is the the demo that advertisers want for every morning program so once you kind of make a statement talking about that you can lose your audience it's clear that CNN probably needs to go back to drawing board with this morning program if you look at what's happened since Chris came on as CEO it's been lost to me anytime on the wall Chris Wallace here Sunday morning Sunday evening documentary show there a new daytime uh format here they're trying a lot of different stuff and their efforts to kind of bring CNN back post you know 2020 when they had their all-time high ratings so yeah I think Don lemon's comment has not died down and it continues to haunt the show and when bookings and ads become a question there's a business in this imperative to change the show very quickly Ryan he's he's referenced larger issues at work what do you think he was hinting at there well I think you know Don and Caitlin have had trouble you know Caitlyn dot had the same agent Caitlyn leaves he jumped to another agency because she felt it wasn't even represented properly um I think yo a variety reported recently Don's had some issues with comments about women in over the course of his career I think it's all come just coalescing and building and it's becoming tough for students and to go to navigate that image he has with morning viewers hey you had something juicy though uh both according Brian stelter the aforementioned Brian stelter said there we go I got rid of that question said that uh Don Lemon and Tucker Carlson have retained the famously aggressive entertainment lawyer Brian Friedman that's interesting um uh tell us about Brian Friedman and by why both of these guys went to hire him Ryan Freeman is a bulldog attorney who has helped represent many different people in similar straights he represented Megan Kelly because NBC News when she was asked in a few years she and didn't she make all the money from her contract like six to nine million dollars that is correct I believe he also represented Chris Cuomo recently against CNN and Chris Paul was also from CNN you know uh entertainment companies aren't always as obvious with contracts there are ways that you know I think they have these um morals Clauses are kind of you know iffy and shaky and not always nailed down Brian Freeman's pretty good at finding the loopholes and holding them to account for money that he believes his clients are due and and to illustrate what a twisted web we we uh tell us who um who Don Lemon is hired to do as PR our understanding he's hired Allison gallis who is uh the former CMO of CNN former NPR person for CNN and also uh as many people know uh involved with Jeff Zucker the former CEO of CNN and former EP The Today Show and the reason for his firing from CNN is because they had an undisclosed relationship for years although they would say not for years and now I guess she doesn't have a job and he's working to try to buy some media properties I think right yeah he's backed by a large VC VC uh company interesting and fascinating that Don Lemon would make that choice and you wonder well how is she going to work with Brian Friedman since Brian Friedman was representing Chris Cuomo that's interesting too I hadn't thought about you're correctly correct but you know people make a lot it's just like Game of Thrones Alliance has changed very quickly right okay and I have to finally End by asking you and then I'll jump to some questions everybody so Jeff shell he's the CEO of uh NBC Universal he worked for the company for how long um oh more than a decade I think it was more than that 17 years so he became the CEO of NBC Universal in 2020. he was ousted because a woman with whom he apparently had an 11-year long relationship a woman who is a reporter for CNBC who has a good name but I can't Hadley can't gamble or something based in Abu Dhabi file like filed a complaint against Jeff shell I hope I'm getting this right and it was investigated and he was fired um okay when will these guys ever learn Brian Steinberg when will they be able to keep it in their pants how stupid are these guys it is a different world than what mainly mean things that I grew up in and I think uh you know people think that it doesn't apply to them they're very powerful cannot get around it but uh you know these are these are are issues that I think has yet to hit home for some people obviously I mean no other explanation I just could not I cannot understand why someone in a position like that Hadley gamble is her the woman's name who filed the complaint how someone in a position like that who apparently narrated and hosted the company's Human Resources videos about sexual harassment like what it's problematic there's there's it's it's it's just in today's world you see you've seen Leslie moonves Kevin sujahara many people thought you know Fallen by these allergies but you would think post Ryan you would think post me too I guess this was this predates me to but you would think post me to that people like TJ Holmes that ABC and a whole assorted cast of characters would understand that this is not okay this is not I mean they're playing with fire and maybe that's part of the appeal you know the the riskiness of this or the feeling that that in a powerful position that the rules don't apply to them I just can't figure it out yeah it's it's it's it's a little while because this has been this the rules have changed and why people are playing playing the old game is is a little strange I agree with you so but but we have to report this out right for variety for your the people who pay your uh bills but um do you see anyone else leaving Fox News well and this is the question we're all asking because you know when this when this thing with Trump happened in 2020 they immediately got rid of people who were associated with the um the the call for Arizona very quickly to Chris firewall Bill salmon the Washington bureau chief and now you see down Dan bongino leaving last took across from this week so you know I think you'll worry about aromo Gene Imperial are all named in these lawsuits uh it's a question one is if there's some scrutiny I mean they were bigger offenders than Tucker Carlson and perpetuating the the rigged election Theory or or rigged election live weren't they yeah I mean yeah our names in the lawsuits as as uh defendants uh they are under understood it for months so yeah it's a question and I I you do have to wonder if you know maybe they're they're hanging around because they won't keep them under the fox umbrella while the court cases are still being in Discovery and being invested educated maybe it's it's advantageous from a legal perspective I don't know but uh you know these are there are issues here I think there is sound it looks like at least from the outside that that we're seeing some things happening very quickly someone said Laura coats last week now Don Lemon I'm not up on Laura coats what happened to Laura Coast I thought that she yeah Laura coach apparently has been told that that she's not going to be doing 11 o'clock much longer at CNN again these are all shows are being spaghetti at the wall there's a 10 o'clock hour 11 o'clock hour and there's some concerned about ratings for lower coach but apparently she was told that she's not guaranteed at 11 o'clock slot anymore there's a question as seen about people of color being represented across the network schedule which is of that ballot concern someone said yes they're taking away representation I mean part of the problem is uh Chris slick who I I've known for some time is doing a lot of experimentation and uh that can be very tricky can it not because you don't want to necessarily put someone who doesn't click with the audience on television on the other hand if they're clicking with some people then you kind of there's a backlash against the decision if you make a change right and whatever your question's doing this all in real time it's It's Tricky it's like flying the plane while fixing the plane at the same time uh it's difficult he is he is doing things in real time live on air these cameras are taking place as you watch CNN not behind the scenes so you know there are chances of people people make connections and win fans yet it's not good enough for the overall business and uh you know management goes in different directions than the viewer might like someone asked me being inside this world for so long how do you think the other they're asking me how do you think the other on-screen Talent is dealing with this what do you think the atmosphere in you know going on inside Fox News and for that matter CNN is at this point look I think it depends I mean I think on the new side Tucker was a thorn perhaps I think a lot of the new side people don't love the theories they got banned about during prime time and it kind of gets them crazy and Tucker also use on documents asked for some of these buyer on the news side because they were they were not totally the line you know trump-wise after the election so you know probably some as in any Newsroom TV Newsroom probably mixed feelings some people probably upset some people probably like you know let me call my agency if I can get in there the investigation into Mr Shell arose from a complaint by my client of sexual harassment and sex discrimination given these circumstances it's very disappointing that my client's name has been released and her privacy violated said Susan McKee a managing partner at the law for her Law Firm that's based in in the UK yeah so maybe I shouldn't have said her name but it's been made public so um I mean any any other final thoughts somebody asked me what I thought about all of this and if we're gonna go back from TV personalities to journalists and I'm afraid that the media landscape has been sort of um so bifurcated and for so long I don't know if they go back to old-fashioned journalism what do you think Brian some of the experiments are old-fashioned Journal I think this Jen sakis on MSNBC longer interviews yeah but but she's a she's clearly a Democrat it's not like she's gonna buy she's not a journalist I mean I think she would consider herself a journalist but she's not unbiased she's representing and when she interviews Democrats it's not like she's super challenged no I agree but at the same time I mean I in today's world that's like you know deep dive stuff uh I'll say I think this is CNN Sunday night program this uh whole world of Anderson Cooper an hour-long deep dive topic on one thing a little more immersive people are trying stuff I think there's a sense at some of the networks that things have gone too far it's all about complaining and and ax grinding and not about fat finding and analyzing and I think there's a concern about it I know now how much people can do about that in an era where where news doesn't get a rating we need to survive the economy is a matter of discussion but so there are a lot of issues happening and the world is changing very quickly and the landscape has been so fragmented and this is this you know has been going on for several years news has become so commoditized people can get it anywhere linear television viewing has been declining for years I know that from my own experience when I anchored the CBS Evening News some of that are Market forces and the fact that people can get news and information in other places so it's it's a very different and a very difficult and challenging media landscape because you know when I did the Today Show people turned on the TV listened to NPR or their local radio station or read their newspaper grabbed it on their front steps and there weren't so many options and when it comes to young people nobody I know certainly not my daughters nobody I know watches TV news under the age of 40. yeah it's a problem anytime you see uh the morning anger of a network Gail King get a job at CNN at the same time you know things are changing very quickly and the audiences are so split that both networks agree to make that deal happen yeah you know very strong not not the norm we're used to surprised at that by the way just in closing and what do you think of this show with with Gail and and Charles Barkley and what do you think um I guess it's just one one night a week yeah when is that going to be enough to really give CNN the kind of um you know kick in the pants and kind of it will will it help the the network rise they'll get a boost it's a pop cult I think they're created in the Larry King type show again not a you know a fire and brimstone anchor show this might do it I mean Gail King could be a Larry King I mean that's that's I think she has the the wherewithal to become like you know the kind of serious but not too hard-line uh interviewer and can do that kind of stuff I think it's a great could be a really interesting hire for CNN the mix of a sports figure plus a newscaster this is happening on ABC's Good Morning America Michael Strahan Nate Burleson over at CBS mornings this is a form people are trying to bring Sports into the news mix I'm sure purists are horrify but it is you know in a world where people want some entertainment seeming to add some kick to the mix so I would be interested to see if I have on surprise CBS signed off on it um but you know and we're all aware that maybe they think that they can generate some viewership forget Gail that will come back to CBS as well there are all kinds of other other strategies at hand like a symbiotic thing like Anderson Cooper doing 16 minutes and doing some Advanced so it's not unprecedented yeah that's right you're right CNN was generous initially so now CVS is generous with their talent right you know there's always been talking about CBS and CNN I think they have a good working relationship behind the scenes too yeah well interesting thank you so much Brian this was a a fun conversation thanks for your time I'll let you get back to your reporting if you find out anything juicy text absolutely absolutely thanks for having me on Kate thanks a lot Brian okay bye everybody

Channel: Katie Couric

Views: 189,980

Keywords: Katie Couric, Katie, Celebrity, Entertainment

Id: h81XDjYpHbA

Length: 30min 7sec (1807 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 24 2023