♪I'M HALLIE JACKSON WITH A BREAKING NEW SPECIAL REPORT. DONALD TRUMP ON TRIAL AND A STUNNING CLOSE TO THE DAY. THE JUDGE CLEARING THE COURTROOM AFTER GETTING SASS FROM A NEW WITNESS. ROBERT COSTELLO. MUTTERING, CALLING IT RIDICULOUS AND ONE POINT SAYING GEEZ TO THE JUDGE. THE PRESS HAD TO LEAVE, SO DID ALMOST EVERYBODY ELSE BUT FOR MR. TRUMP'S LOYALIST IN THE FIRST COUPLE OF ROWS AFTER WHAT WAS ADDRESSING DOWN, THE JUDGE LET FOLKS BACK IN AND COSTELLO CARRIED ON WITH HIS TESTIMONY. REMEMBER WHY HE MATTERS HERE. HE SAYS HE CAN PROVE COHEN IS LYING. HE JUST WRAPPED UP, HE WILL BE BACK AFTER A CROSS-EXAMINATION, HIGHLY ANTICIPATED ONE. THE DEFENSE TEAM GOING AFTER COHEN HIMSELF TRYING TO CHIP AWAY FROM HIS CREDIBILITY. COHEN ACKNOWLEDGING HE STOLE SOMETHING LIKE $30,000 FROM THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION OR SAYING MAYBE HE WANTS TO RUN FOR CONGRESS OR EVEN POSSIBLY WRITE A THIRD BOOK ABOUT THE FORMER PRESIDENT. THIS CROSS EXAMINATION SEEMED TO DRAG WITH OUR TEAM IN THE COURTROOM REPORTING THAT THE JURORS SEEMED LESS THAN COMPELLED. RUBBING THEIR EYES, THE ONE THING THAT NEVER CAME UP, THE 2017 MEETING AT THE HEART OF THE CASE THAT IS WHERE THINGS STAND AT THE MOMENT. POSSIBLE AND SECOND WE COULD SEE DONALD TRUMP WALK OUT OF COURT. IT HAS NOT QUITE WRAPPED UP FOR THE DAY EVEN THOUGH JURORS ARE GONE. NOW CLOSING ARGUMENTS WILL NOT BE TOMORROW LIKE WE THOUGHT LAST WEEK, INSTEAD, THEY ARE GOING TO BE NEXT TUESDAY. A WEEK FROM TOMORROW. MEANING AT THIS MOMENT THE TWO DAYS OF THE TRIAL THIS WEEK ARE A BIG TBD. FOR THE NEXT 20 MINUTES WE ARE TAKING YOU INSIDE OF ALL OF THE ROOMS CAMERAS COULD NOT BE IN. WHAT IT MEANS WHY IT MATTERS AND WHAT IS COMING NEXT. WE HAVE OUR REPORTERS AND LEGAL EXPERTS TO BREAK IF ALL DOWN. NOW, IT A NEWS CLICHI■TO CALL THEM FIREWORKS BUT THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE, FIGURATIVELY OF COURSE, TELL US WHAT WENT DOWN WITH THE DIFFERENCE WITNESS ROBERT COSTELLO AND WHY IT MATTERS. >> Reporter: RIGHT, IT IS NOTABLE BECAUSE ROBERT COSTELLO IS THEIR ONE NOTABLE WITNESS THAT THE DEFENSE FOR DONALD TRUMP CHOSE TO CALL HERE TODAY. WITHIN A MATTER OF MINUTES HE WAS FORCEFULLY REBOOKED BY THE JUDGE IN FRONT OF THE JURY. IT LED TO THE JURY -- JURY AND THE PRESS TO GO OUT OF THE ROOM. BEFORE THAT TOOK PLACE DIRECT COMMENTS FROM JUDGE MERCHAN TO THE WITNESS WHO WAS A LEGAL ADVISORY. I LIKE TO DISCUSS PROPER DECORUM. YOU DON'T SAY JEEZ AND YOU DON'T ROLL YOUR EYES, CLEAR THE COURTROOM. AGAIN, EXPLICIT MESSAGES SENT FROM THE JUDGE TO ROBERT COSTELLO. AFTER A FEW MINUTES UPON RE- ENTERING THE COURTROOM THE TESTIMONY FROM ROBERT COSTELLO CAME TO AN END. TESTIFIED THAT MICHAEL COHEN TOLD HIM BACK IN 2018 THAT HE HAD DONE THIS ALL BY HIMSELF THE STORMY DANIELS PAYMENT AND DONALD TRUMP DID NOT. AND MICHAEL COHEN WAS NOT BEING HONEST AT THE TIME. THOSE CONVERSATIONS CAME JUST A MATTER OF WEEKS BEFORE HE ENDED UP WORKING IN. ADMITTING TO PLAYING GUILTY IN THE CRIMES HE SAID HE COMMITTED. >> THERE WAS A MOMENT TODAY AND WE WERE WAITING TO SEE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WITH MICHAEL COHEN'S TESTIMONY. THERE WAS BACK AND FORTH THAT HAPPENED. NOT IN FRONT THE JURORS, OVER THE C-SPAN VIDEO. SHOULD IT BE ALLOWED INTO EVIDENCE, SHOULD IT NOT BE. PROSECUTORS WERE LIKE FINE WE CAN BRING BACK A WITNESS TO GET IT IN EVIDENCE. WHY IS THIS IMAGE THAT WE ARE ABOUT TO SHOW SO CRITICAL? >> Reporter: THIS HAD TO DO WITH CONVERSATIONS MICHAEL COHEN AND DONALD TRUMP HAD IN OCTOBER 2016 AROUND THE TIME THAT THE PAYMENT WAS BEING MADE TO STORMY DANIELS. THIS PARTICULAR VIDEO THAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT WAS THE NIGHT OF OCTOBER 24th, 2016. AND MICHAEL COHEN HAD TESTIFIED LAST WEEK THAT HE HAD A PHONE CALL ABOUT FIVE MINUTES AFTER THIS VIDEO WAS TAKEN BETWEEN HIM AND, YOU WILL SEE THE GUY IN THE RED TIE THERE, THE BALD MAN. THAT IS KEITH SCHILLER, HIS BODYGUARD AT THE TIME. HE IN THE PHONE CALL WAS PUT ON THE LINE WITH DONALD TRUMP. HE SAYS DONALD TRUMP TOLD HIM TO EXECUTE THE PAYMENT. WE HAVE TEXT MESSAGES AROUND THE SAME HOUR WHERE YOU SEEMED TO WANT TO TALK TO HIM RELATED TO A 14-YEAR-OLD PRANK CALLING YOU AND MICHAEL COHEN SAID WE TALKED ABOUT BOTH OF THOSE THINGS IN THAT PHONE CALL. THIS IS WHERE THE PROSECUTION BROUGHT THIS VIDEO EVIDENCE FORWARD TODAY SAYING, LOOK, THIS IS FIVE MINUTES BEFORE THE PHONE CALL TOOK PLACE YOU SEE HIM STANDING THERE ON THE STAGE WITH DONALD TRUMP. THE TIMING OF IT WOULD MAKE SENSE THAT TRUMP WOULD HAVE BEEN WITH HIM WHEN MICHAEL COHEN PLACED THAT PHONE CALL. >> VAUGHN, LIVE IN DOWNTOWN -- MANHATTAN. THIS IS WHERE WE SEE THE PRESIDENT WALK OUT. WHAT WILL HE IS A IF ANYTHING ABOUT THE CLEARING OF THE COURT BY THE JUDGE LATE TODAY AND IF WHETHER OR NOT HE WILL TAKE THE STAND. ONE OF THE REPRESENTATIVES SUGGESTED HE WANTED TO AND OTHERS SAID IF THAT HAPPENS, BAD NEWS POTENTIALLY FOR THE DEFENSE. >> Reporter: RIGHT, ONE OF HIS ATTORNEYS WHO IS NOT WORKING ON THIS SPECIFIC CASE, SHE JUST THIS AFTERNOON EXPLICITLY SAID THAT HE SHOULD LISTEN TO THE ADVICE OF HIS ATTORNEYS. THE VERY NEXT SENTENCE SAID HE WANTS TO TESTIFY. THIS GETS AT THE HEART OF IF TRUMP CAN BE CONVINCED HE SHOULD NOT TAKE THE STAND. IF HE DOES, HE SUBJECTS HIMSELF TO HOURS AND DAYS OF QUESTIONING FROM THE PROSECUTION WHO WOULD LOVE IF HE TOOK THE STAND. THEY COULD ASK HIM QUESTIONS. YET, DONALD TRUMP IS SOMEBODY WHO IN THE PAST IN THE CARROLL TRIAL CHOSE NOT TO TAKE THE STAND AND LATER WISHED HE HAD AFTER HE WAS FOUND TO HAVE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED HER. FELT HE DID NOT HAVE A CHANCE TO GO AND DEFEND HIMSELF. SO, THE QUESTION HERE IS FOR HIM IN THESE PUBLIC SETTINGS WHEN HE LEAVES THE COURTROOM AND SPEAKS TO CAMERAS IS THAT ENOUGH OF A PLATFORM FOR HIM TO MAKE HIS CASE OR DOES HE FEEL LIKE COME TOMORROW WHEN HE WOULD NEED TO BE TESTIFYING, THAT HE FEELS HE NEEDS TO DO IT UNDER OATH IN FRONT OF THE 12 JURORS THAT WILL DECIDE HIS FATE? >> THANK YOU. AS WE KEEP AN EYE ON THIS LIVE PICTURE NOW OUT OF THIS CAMERA INSIDE OF THE HALLWAY IN COURT. IT IS A FAMILIAR PICTURE TO ALL OF YOU AS WE HAVE BEEN WATCHING AS COURT HAS BEEN WRAPPING UP THE DAY RIGHT HERE ON NBC NEWS NOW DURING THE SPECIAL REPORTS. I WANT TO BRING IN A COUPLE ATTORNEYS THAT KNOW TRUMP WELL. THEY DEFENDED HIM IN A TRIAL. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. AS WE KEEP AN EYE ON WHAT HAPPENED IN THE HALLWAY. SHOULD THE FORMER PRESIDENT TEAM'S BE NERVOUS THE WAY THE JUDGE SLAMMED ROBERT COSTELLO HERE? >> IT HAS BEEN A LONG TRIAL, TENSIONS RISE. IT IS NOT UNUSUAL. BUT I THINK IT IS JUST . >> IT IS NOT UNUSUAL TO CLEAR THE COURT BECAUSE THE WITNESS IS GETTING SASSY? >> IT IS NOT UNUSUAL. I AM SURPRISED THERE WAS NOT MORE OF IT IN THIS CASE. IT IS REALLY A RED HERRING, NOTHING TO FOCUS ON. THE THING TO FOCUS ON IS A DISBARRED LAWYER SAYING THAT HE STOLE $60,000 FROM HIS CLIENT. THAT IS THE LEAD OF THE DAY. >> SO THIS IS THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT MICHAEL COHEN MADE THAT WE REFERENCED. I THINK IT CAME OUT AFTER TAX TO BE $30,000. ONE OF SEVERAL WAYS THE DEFENSE TEAM TRIED TO CHIP AWAY AT MICHAEL COHEN'S CREDIBILITY. >> IS HE HAPPY WITH THE WAY HIS DEFENSE TEAM IS HANDLING THIS NOW THAT IT IS THEIR TURN TO MAKE THE ARGUMENT FOR WHY MR. TRUMP SHOULD NOT BE PROSECUTED? >> I KNOW YOU ARE NOT IN HIS HEAD. BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW. >> I DID NOT TALK TO HIM OVER THE WEEKEND WHEN I SAW HIM THURSDAY COMING OUT OF COURT HE THANKED HIS LAWYERS. HE SAID HE IS PAYING HIS LAWYERS AND YOU CAN TELL HE WAS HAPPY. >> I DON'T WANT TO INTERRUPT YOU BUT I WANT TO PAUSE YOU FOR A MOMENT BECAUSE WE ARE SEEING TRUMP WALK UP TO THE MICROPHONE IN COURT. WE WANT TO LISTEN JUST FOR A SECOND TO HEAR WHAT HE HAS TO SAY. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU SAW WHAT YOU SAW. I NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT IN MY LIFE. EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT. THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE. AN ACTING JUDGE, A POINLTSED JUDGE BY THE DEMOCRATS, BY THE CLUB. THIS WILL BE OUR FOURTH WEEK, THIS WILL BE OUR FIFTH WEEK. NOT CAMPAIGNING. YOU SAW WHAT HAPPENED. WHAT JUST TOOK PLACE IN THAT COURT. AND HOPEFULLY THE MOTION TO DISMISS THIS TRIAL WILL GO THROUGH. THIS TRIAL IS A DISASTER FOR OUR COUNTRY. DISASTER FOR NEW YORK CITY, NEW YORK CITY. WHERE EXACTLY IS THE CRIME? >> SO, THERE IS FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP SPEAKING OUTSIDE OF COURT AS HE HAS DONE FREQUENTLY. I THINK ALMOST DAILY SINCE THIS TRIAL BEGAN HERE REFERENCING WHAT HAPPENED IN COURT. THE JUDGE CLEARING THE ROOM. CALLING IT SOMETHING HE NEVER SEEN BEFORE. BUT YOU MAKE THE POINT SOMETIMES IT HAPPENS, TEMPERS FLAIR AND YOU NEED TO TAKE A BEAT TO RESET. >> WE SPENT EIGHT WEEKS IN THAT COURTROOM IN FRONT OF JUDG MERCHAN. PEOPLE GET TIRED. IT SOUNDED LIKE WE ARE LISTENING JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE WITNESS IT IS ABOUT THE CASE >> THE JURORS ARE WATCHING THE INTERSECTION BETWEEN THE JUDGE AND THE WITNESS. HE DRESSED HIM DOWN BECAUSE OF WHAT HE WAS DOING TO HIM. >> YES. SHOWING HIM DISRESPECT. AND WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS, THE JURY RESPECTS THE JUDGE. THE JURY LIKES THE JUDGE. ALL JURIES LIKE THE JUDGE. AND OUR EXPERIENCES THE JURIES REALLY LIKE MERCHAN. HE IS PROFESSIONAL. HE IS WHAT YOU EXPECT TO SEE. >> HE IS SPEILBERG'S VERSION OF "THE JUDGE." >> YOU ARE SAYING HE IS OUT OF CENTRAL CASTING. NOT RULINGS AND POLITICAL BELIEFS I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT BUT IN GENERAL THEY RESPECT JUDGES, LIKE A FATHER FIGURE. THEY LIKE HIM. TAKING THE JUDGE ON IN HIS OWN COURTROOM NOT A GOOD THING. >> LET ME ASK YOU BOTH BECAUSE YOU ARGUED CASES ON BEHALF OF TRUMP F. HE WANTED TO TESTIFY, IF HE REALLY WANTED TO TESTIFY DO YOU THINK TODD BLANCHE CAN GET HIM OUT. >> BLANCHE HAS TO KEEP HIM OFF OF THE STAND, DUCT TAPE HIM IN A CHAIR. BLANCHE HAS DONE A GREAT JOB. TALK ABOUT A GUY HE PACES HIMSELF, I THOUGHT HE BURIED THE LEAD WHEN HE BROUGHT OUT THE CALL WAS ABOUT A 14-YEAR OLD CHILD THAT THIS LUNATIC. >> THIS IS THE 90 SECOND CALL. >> I THOUGHT THAT WAS A KNOCK OUT PUNCH >> TODAY, STEALING $60,000 OR $30,000 IN THE WORLD OF ATTORNEY DISCIPLINE. STEALING FROM A CLIENT IS LIKE FIRST-DEGREE MURDER. IT IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO AND NOW HE WANTS TO RUN FOR CONGRESS. HE MIGHT QUALIFY FOR IT. >> AND THERE IS A QUESTION IF THE LENGTH OF THE CROSS- EXAMINATION KEPT THEM ENGAGED. THEY SAID IT IS A LONG DAY FOR THE JURY. THEY WERE SHIFTING IN THEIR SEATS RUBBING THEIR FACES HEAD IN THEIR HANDS >> A LONG COUPLE OF DAYS. >> THAT IS RIGHT. TWO AND PLUS DAYS OF CROSS EXAMINATION. BUT, THERE WAS ANOTHER LEAK YOU CAN HAVE GONE WITH THE GUY. YOU REALLY GOT TO BE IN BLANCHE'S POSITION I GOT TO HIT THESE POINTS AND IT TAKES TIME >> THERE IS A NARRATIVE THAT COHEN IS TRYING TO SELL AND HALF OF THE JURORS ARE BUYING INTO IT. ON THE CROSS OF THE WITNESS, THIS WITNESS COSTELLO. WOULD YOU HAVE EMPATHY FOR A POOR MAN WHOSE APARTMENT WAS RAIDED. THIS NONSENSE, WHAT HE DID TO MY FAMILY. YOU KNOW WHO SAYS THAT? SOMEONE'S FAMILY THAT IS REAR ENDED BY A DRUNK DRIVER OR SOMEONE'S HOME BROKEN INTO. HE DID THESE ACTIONS HIMSELF AND HE CAN NOT BLAME ACADEMY. >> ANYONE. NOW, IT WILL BE UP TO THE JURY NOT US. DO YOU THINK THIS DELAY UNTIL TUESDAY WORKS IN TRUMP'S FAVOR? >> HE IS AS THERE WILL BE A BREAK. THERE HAS TO BE. MEMORIAL DAY. >> THERE IS MORE DEFENSE COMING. I THINK THEY WILL PUT ON AN EXPERT WITNESS. I THINK THERE IS A CHANCE, A LOT OF PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH ME. I THINK THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE THAT HE IS TESTIFYING. >> A GOOD CHANCE? >> A GOOD CHANCE. >> HE IS GNAWING AT THE BIT TO TESTIFY. HE HAS THE EXPERIENCE OF REGRETTING ONCE THAT HE DID NOT TESTIFY. AND, IN RETRIALS WHEN YOU DON'T DO THAT, YOU DO TESTIFY THE NEXT TIME. >> I WOULD NOT WRITE HIM OFF. >> ALL RIGHT. >> I KNOW YOU BOTH HAVE A BUSY AFTERNOON. THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. WE ARE GOING TO SAVE THIS TAPE AND CLIP IT BACK NEXT WEEK [ LAUGHTER ] >> I WANT TO GET TO OUR LEGAL ANALYSTS, SO YOU JUST HEARD THE CONVERSATION FROM TWO ATTORNEYS WHO KNOW MR. TRUMP WELL, DANNY, I WANT TO PICK UP ON THAT THREAD WITH YOU. DO YOU THINK THE DEFENSE WAS EFFECTIVE FOR MICHAEL COHEN AND BRINGING IT. >> HAY. BILL AND THE V, THE V IS ON? MY GOODNESS [ LAUGHTER ] >> LISTEN. THEY MADE A LOT OF GOOD POINTS. YOU KNOW. HERE IN THIS CASE. HELLO GENTLEMAN. >> HELLO, DANNY. >> THE DEFENSE REALLY, I DON'T THINK THERE IS TOO MUCH TO WORRY ABOUT IN THE SENSE THAT . >> WHAT DO YOU MEAN? >> I THINK THERE IS A BIGGER DEAL IF THEY WERE JUST GOING TO CALL COSTELLO AND WE DON'T KNOW IF HE IS THE LAST WITNESS. REST AND GO WITH THE WHOLE REASONABLE DOUBT. DID NOT PROVE THEIR CASE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE. I WONDER IF CALLING COSTELLO IS THAT REALLY THEIR ONLY POINT. A MINOR POINT. THE BURDEN OF PROOF DOES NOT SHIFT TO THE DEFENSE BUT IF THEY HAVE IT SHIFTING TO THEM. UNDERTAKING TO PROVE SOMETHING. WHERE THEY HAVE TO PROVE NOTHING WHEN THEY HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF OF NOTHING. I WONDER IF MAYBE, I AM NOT CRITICIZING THAT CHOICE. YOU HAVE TO MAKE CHOICES AT TRIAL. TOUGH CHOICES, EASY FOR ME TO SIT HERE IN THIS AIR CONDITIONED STUDIO AND SAY THAT WAS A BAD CALL. BUT, MAYBE NOT CALL COSTELLO, MAYBE DO. SO FAR NOT GOING WELL BECAUSE OF THE WAY HE IS TESTIFYING, BUT YOU TAKE CHANCES DURING TRIAL. SOMETIMES THEY WORK, SOMETIMES MAYBE DON'T GO AS SMOOTHLY AS YOU HOPE. >> BEFORE COHEN LEFT. WE UNDERSTAND HE IS BACK HOME IN HIS APARTMENT IN NEW YORK. DID NOT SPEAK OR ENGAGE WITH REPORTERS OUT OF COURT OR TO HIS HOME, CATHERINE, I WONDER YOU HEARD TRUMP'S ATTORNEYS IN DIFFERENT CASES TALK ABOUT THE WAY PROSECUTION TRIED TO PERHAPS ELICIT SYMPATHY FOR MICHAEL COHEN IN THE REDIRECT THERE. HE ACKNOWLEDGED HIS LIFE, HE FEELS, COHEN SAID MADE IMMEASURABLE MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE OF WHAT HE HAS GONE THROUGH WITH TRUMP IS THAT T AN EFFECTIVE STRATEGY? >> IT WILL BE EFFECTIVE BUT I DON'T THINK THE JURORS WILL BE SYMPATHETIC TO COHEN BUT THE QUESTION IS WILL THEY BELIEVE HIM? SO, FOR THAT PART OF HIS TESTIMONY THAT HAS NOT BEEN CORROBORATED HE HAS TO BE BELIEVED. I DON'T FEEL ANYBODY WILL BE FEELING SORRY FOR HIM, A LIAR, A THEFT, THE ARGUMENT IS, THAT IS WHO DONALD TRUMP WANTED. THAT IS WHO WORKED IN THE DONALD TRUMP WORLD. SO, I THOUGHT THE REDIRECT WAS EFFECTIVE IN THAT IT REHABILITATED COHEN FROM LAST THURSDAY WHEN THE DEFENSE THOUGHT THEY CAUGHT HIM IN A LIE. AND I THINK THAT THE PROSECUTORS HAVE ESTABLISHED FOR THE JURY, WELL, HE WAS NOT LYING, HE TALKED ABOUT, HE TALKED TO TRUMP ABOUT STORMY DANIELS A NUMBER OF TIMES HE SPOKE TO HIM A NUMBER OF TIMES. HE WAS JUST MISTAKEN. >> FORGIVE MEFOR ASKING, REMARKABLY OBVIOUS QUESTION HERE, WHY WOULDN'T THE DEFENSE ASK ABOUT THAT CRITICAL MEETING IN THE OVAL OFFICE IN SOMETHING THAT THE PROSECUTION POINTED TO AS A LYNCH PIN TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER THE HUSH MONEY PAYMENT AND IF HE KNEW WHAT THE MONEY WAS GOING FOR >> GENERALLY SPEAKING ON CROSS YOU WILL NOT ASK A QUESTION THAT EITHER YOU ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE HEADWAY ON OR THAT THE WITNESS CAN THROW BACK IN YOUR FACE AND MAYBE DO MORE DAMAGE. IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF THEY FORGET ABOUT THESE FACTS OR FORGET ABOUT THAT MEETING, THE DEFENSE IS SO IN THESE FACTS THEY FORGOTTEN MORE ABOUT THIS CASE THAN WE WILL EVER KNOW. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU ARE ON TRIAL. THEY KNOW ABOUT IT, THEY MADE A DECISION NOT TO GO INTO IT. MY GUESS IT WAS A STRATEGIC ONE. THINKING, LOOK, IF THIS IS THE KIND OF THING WE ASK HIM ABOUT THEY WILL DOUBLE DOWN. BY THE WAY THAT ASKED A LOT OF QUESTIONS HE DID DOUBLE DOWN ON EVEN WITH SPOTTY MEMORY. MY GUESS THEY AVOIDED THIS BECAUSE THEY DID NOT THINK THEY WOULD MAKE HEADWAY OR THE PROSECUTION DID NOT ESTABLISH THAT CONVERSATION. ALTHOUGH THAT DOES NOT SEEM RIGHT TO ME. SO, AT THE HEART OF THE MATTER. THE SPICY MOMENTS THAT WE SAW AT THE END OF COURT TODAY, PERHAPS DO NOT GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER IN SUCH A DEGREE. HE ADDRESSED THEM IN THE HALLWAY A COUPLE OF MINUTES AGO AND SAID SOMETHING, THE PRESS GOT THROWN OUT. I IMAGINE THEY ARE NOT REALLY HAPPY. THAT IS TRUE, RIGHT? TYPICALLY LOSING ACCESS TO A COURTROOM IN A MOMENT OF HISTORICAL IMPORTANCE IS CRITICAL. BUT INTERESTING FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S CALL THEM EN SUPPORTERS WERE NOT. WHAT DOES THAT IS A TO YOU ABOUT THIS MOMENT IF YOU ANYTHING. >> TYPICALLY YOU DON'T CLEAR OUT PEOPLE WHO ARE THERE FOR THE DEFENSE. SO DEFENDANT'S FAMILY, DEFENSE FRIENDS, I AM NOT SURE WHY HE WAS NOT. HE WAS TALKING FOR A LAWYER ACTING OUTRAGEOUS ON THE STAND BEING DISRESPECTFUL TO THE JUDGE. TYPICALLY YOU WOULD NOT GET RID OF WHO THE DEFENDANT BROUGHT INTO THE COURTROOM. >> CATHERINE, DANNY, ANOTHER INTERESTING DAY IN COURT AS WE BARREL TOWARDS POTENTIALLY A FINISH AS EARLY AS NEXT WEEK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US. I WANT TO BRING IN OUR TEAM WHO COVERED TRUMP EXTENSIVELY TO GET INTO SOME OF WHAT IS AT PLAY HEREIN CLUING THE POLITICS. NBC NEWS CHEER POLITICAL ANALYST CHUCK TODD. SINCE WE ARE HERE IN YOUR BUILDING THE HOUSE THAT CHUCK BUILT, TALK TO ME ABOUT HOW YOU SEE ROBERT COSTELLO AS A WITNESS. SOMEONE THAT HAS COME FORWARD, PERHAPS, CLEARLY NOT A FAN OF COHEN AND PLAYERS IN THIS CASE TALK ME THROUGH IT? >> IT IS INTERESTING. IT FEELS LIKE, LOOK I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO PUTTING TRUMP ON THE COUCH BUT IT FEELS LIKE THE LAWYER SAID OKAY, THEY WANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY THAT CAN BE TOUGH ON BEHALF, PERHAPS OR, YOU ALMOST HAVE THAT FEELING THAT THIS WAS DONE IN SOME WAYS TO APPEASE THE CLIENT A LITTLE BIT TO FIGHT BACK. >> BECAUSE TRUMP LIKES THE OPTICS OF AN ATTORNEY. >> HE WANTS A FIGHT OR THIS FRONT. LOOK I THINK WE ALL KNOW IF HE COULD TESTIFIED WITHOUT BEING CROSS EXAMINED HE WOULD BE TESTIFYING. HE HAS BEEN IN ENOUGH DEPOSITIONS TO KNOW. >> BUT CROSS-EXAMINATION COMES WITH THE TERRITORY. >> RIGHT. OF COURSE IT DOES AND IT PROBABLY DOES NOT HELP HIS CASE BUT I BET IT WOULD BE GOOD POLITICS FOR HIM TO TESTIFY. THAT IS ONE THING THAT I AM WONDERING IS HOW MUCH TRUMP IS CALCULATING WHAT IS GOOD POLITICS VERSUS GOOD LEGAL STRATEGY. IT MAY NOT BE THE SAME THING. >> DO YOU AGREE? I MEAN WE HEARD FROM SOME OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S FORMER ATTORNEYS IN A SEPARATE CASE THAT THERE IS MAYBE A GOOD CHANCE THAT HE COULD TESTIFY? GOOD CHANCE? >> I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS. LISTEN HE -- I WOULDN'T, I WOULD NOT BE SHOCK IF HE TESTIFIED BECAUSE THERE IS SAN ARROGANCE TO HIM THAT BELIEVES HE CAN HANDLE ANYTHING AND HE DOES NOT HAVE PEOPLE THAT TELL HIM NO VERY OFTEN ON THAT FRONT. BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS ALSO MOMENTS WHERE COOLER HEADS, HE SEEMS TO GET THE MOMENT LIKE, IF HE THINKS IT PUTS HIM IN MORE PERSONAL JEOPARDY I THINK HE WILL NOT DO IT. THE WAY TO TALK HIM OUT OF IT, DO YOU WANT TO END UP IN JAIL? THAT IS THE WAY TO KEEP HIM OUT OF IT. IF YOU DON'T TESTIFY NOW YOU PROBABLY HAVE A BETTER SHOT AT GETTING THE CONVICTION THROWN OUT. THAT IS THE LEGAL ADVICE HE IS BEING GIVEN BUT THE POLITICAL INSTINCT IN HIM. >> THE PULL. >> IT IS TO TESTIFY AND FIGHT. >> I SEE YOU NODDING, MOLLY. >> Reporter: I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS HERE HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE CONVICTED. THAT IS IT. AND PERIOD, END OF STORY. HE CAN BLUSTER ALL HE WANTS ABOUT HOW THE WHOLE THING IS A POLITICAL WITCH-HUNT AND HE DOES NOT CARE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER BECAUSE HE NEVER VIEW TODAY LEGITIMATE, THEY ARE OUT TO GET HIM. WE HEARD IT MANY, MANY TIMES BUT HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE CONVICTED. THE LEGAL CONSENSUS IT WOULD PUT HIM IN MORE JEOPARDY IT IS PRETTY SALUTE. IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR THE LEGAL CASE FOR HIM TO TESTIFY WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING THE POLITICAL ARGUMENT HE IS DOING IT OUTSIDE OF COURT, DOING IT WHEN HE WALKS IN AND OUT AND YOU KNOW HE GETS ON THE NEWS SOMETIMES AND IT IS OUT THERE ON SOCIAL MEADE JAY AND NOW THE THING THAT SURPRISED ME THE MOST IS THE BACK UP HE IS GETTING FROM SO MANY REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS AND OTHER ALLIES WHO ARE GOING UP THERE AND HELPING HIM MAKE THE CASE SO HE HAS BEEN ABLE TO REALLY SET THE POLITICAL NARRATIVE IN THE MEDIA BY MAKING THE CASE HIMSELF AND HAVING AN ENTIRE POLITICAL PARTY BACK HIM UP IN THE POLITICAL CASE THAT HE IS MAKING. HE DOES NOT HAVE TO TESTIFY TO DO THAT. BUT YOU KNOW IT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE THAT HE HAS POLITICAL INTERESTS AND LEGAL INTERESTS HERE AND I THINK HE HAS BEEN CLEVER ABOUT RECOGNIZING THAT FROM THE BEGINNING AND TAKING GREAT CARE TO STEER THE POLITICAL NARRATIVE AT THE SAME TIME AS SOMETHING DIFFERENT MIGHT BE HAPPENING IN THE COURTROOM. >> THERE HAVE BEEN MANY COMPELLING MOMENTS, SOME MOMENTS THAT ARE DRY. WE CAN JUST SAY THAT AND CALL IT WHAT IT IS. FOR THE JURY, FOR THOSE 12 NEW YORKERS WHO ARE GOING TO DECIDE THE FATE OF THIS PAST AND PERHAPS FUTURE PRESIDENT THEY HAD TO BE IN THERE. IT CAN GET WEEDSY, YOU HAVE LIVED THERE. WHAT ARE YOUR BIG TAKEAWAYS AT THE MOMENT. WHAT DO YOU THINK THE JURY, IT IS SPECULATION BUT YOU GET WHAT I AM SAYING. >> ARE THEY THINKING OF THE 34 COUNTS OF FALSIFIED DOCUMENTS SO MUCH OF THE TRIAL AND TESTIMONY INTERSTORMY DANIELS AND COSTELLO, IT IS IN OTHER THINGS THAN THE 34 COUNTS AT ISSUE. YOU WONDER IF THEY GET IN THE ROOM AND THINK ABOUT WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE CHARGES WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DECIDE ABOUT. SOME CASES THE ONLY DOCUMENTS IN EVIDENCE OR WHAT HAPPENED AND WHY IT HAPPENED. WHY IS IMPORTANT COMES FROM MICHAEL COHEN. I THINK ALL OF THE EFFORT THAT THE DEFENSE PUT INTO TRYING TO IMPEACH COHEN OR LOOK LIKE A LIAR WHICH CERTAINLY WENT TO JAIL FOR LYING THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT IS GOING TO MATTER HERE. THE OUTCOMF THE CASE. NOT STORMY DANIELS OR ANYBODY ELSE. DO PEOPLE BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE SAID TRUMP TOLD ME TO DO THIS AND TO LIE ABOUT IT. HERE IS JUDGE >> IT IS STRIKE -- HERE IS WHY. >> IS IT STRIKING WE ARE SEEING A ROLE CALL OF PEOPLE SHOWING UP FOR TRUMP? >> NO FRVMENT ACCESS HOLLYWOOD TO NOW I DON'T THINK WE ARE SURPRISED WHEN REPUBLICANS CAN HELP THEMSELVES BY STANDING BEHIND TRUMP. THINK ABOUT CHRIS CHRISTIE. IF YOU ARE THE FIRST GUY TO DO WHAT NOBODY ELSE WILL DO AND STAND BEHIND HIM WHEN EVERYBODY ELSE. >> LOOK WHAT IT GOT CHRIS CHRISTIE, DAVID. >> YES. RICK SCOTT WILL BE THE FIRST ONE, HE BROKE THE ICE. HE STARTED THIS AND YOU KNOW, SOME OF IT IS FOR -- LOOK AS YOU KNOW. >> WAIT TO YOUR POINT HE DID RUN THE TRANSITION YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT HE HAS BEEN REWARDED >> HE IS ON THE BACKSIDE. YES. IT WENT UP FOR AWHILE. >> YES. LOOK WHEN THERE IS A PART OF THIS WHERE HE IS I THINK HE SEES, HE SEES THE FOLKS SEEING AN OPPORTUNITY TO ESSENTIALLY JUST GLOSS OVER IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY DON'T STAND BY HIM. >> HE REMEMBERS. >> YES. IF YOU DON'T YOU GET MOWED OVER. BUT, IT IS REMARKABLE TO ME THAT YOU HAD TO ASK THAT QUESTION ARE YOU SURPRISED TO SEE THIS AND NO, NOT SINCE ACCESS HOLLYWOOD. I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT NOT SINCE ACCESS HOLLYWOOD. ARE WE LIVING IN THE NONNORMAL TIMES OR NOT? THIS SHOULD BE WEIRD. IT IS ODD THAT AMERICAN POLITICIANS ARE THUMB'S THEIR NOSE AT THE RULES OF LAW BEFORE WE HEARD FROM A JURY, BEFORE WE KNOW THE VERDICT. SO IT IS, IT IS -- THIS PART TO ME IS REALLY DISCONCERNING AND WE ARE ALL JUST LIKE EMOJI SHRUG BECAUSE THIS IS OUR NORMAL >> IT IS A INSIDE BASEBALL GROUP. SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON THAT SHOWED UP LAST WEEK. A LOT OF AMERICANS WOULD KNOW WHO HE IS. PROBABLY NOT. >> I THOUGHT BERNARD WAS THERE. ONE OF THE MOST DISGRACED INDIVIDUALS IN THE HISTORY OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. WHAT HAPPENED WHEN HE WAS NOMINATED TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY. YOU TALK TO BUSH IT IS A THIET MAYOR. THEY STILL BLAME RUDY GIULIANI FOR THAT. THEY GOT TALKED INTO ONE OF THE MOST EMBARRASSING MOMENTS. THERE HE IS OUT THERE WITH THIS, SERVING AS A CHARACTER WITNESS FOR DONALD TRUMP. AMERICA IN 2024 >> IT IS A SPLIT SCREEN, TOO, BID WHROAN HAS BEEN OUT TO A DEGREE ON THE ROAD. WE SAW HIM OUT THIS WEEKEND. TRYING TO MAKE INROADS WITH BLACK VOTERS, TRUMP COMPLAINING HE CAN NOT CAMPAIGN. COURT IS NOT HAPPENING EVERY DAY AND WE SAW HIM IN DALLAS. THERE IS STILL AN TUNE UTFOR HIM TO GET HIS MESSAGE OUT AND HE HAS A CHANCE TO DO THAT EVERY SINGLE DAY AT 5:00 P.M. OR 4:30 OR WHATEVER. >> AND I THINK HE IS ACTUALLIY EFFECT -- ACTUALLY EFFECTIVELY ABOUT IT. PERSONAL GRIEVANCE OR THAN BELL WHATEVER HE HAS ON HIS MIND. I WONDER IF THERE IS NOT ANGST ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, THEY DON'T WANT TO PUT FURTHER STRAIN ON THE DOUBTS PEOPLE HAVE ON IT. BUT WHAT IT MEANS IS, I THINK YOU SEE IN THE POLLS THE NEEDLE SORT OF MOVING TOWARDS TRUMP VIEW OF THE CASE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE VIEWING IT AS A POLITICAL PROSECUTION AND THERE IS NOT ANY SORT OF COUNTERNARRATIVE ON THE POLITICAL SIDE TO MAKE THE OPPOSITE OF THE CASE >> VERY QUICKLY. >> I JUST FOUND THIS IS SOMETHING WE ALL HAD TO DEAL WITHACE JOURNALIST, COME AND ATTACK OUR DISPOSITION, THE LEGAL SYSTEM, IT WOULD BE ABSURD IF THE PROSECUTORS HELD THEIR OWN DUELING PRESS CONFERENCES, RIGHT? BUT SOMETIMES PROSECUTORS DO THAT. IT ALMOST THEN, YOU ARE PLAYING HIS GAME YOU AND ARE HELPING TO DO IT. I WATCH WHAT FANI WILLIS IS DOING AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS HELPING THE CAUSE THAT SHE IS ALMOST OUT THERE CAMPAIGNING FOR THE LEGITIMACY TO THE CASE TO THE POINT OF WHY? YOU KNOW, IT IS UNCOMFORTABLE WHEN IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE TO CAMPAIGN FOR SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF BEING POLITICALLY MOTIVATED TRIAL. THIS IS WHERE TRUMP'S JUST SHAMELESSNESS SOMETIMES AND THE SYSTEM IS AN ADVANTAGE. >> IT IS TOO BAD WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO TALK ABOUT. WE WILL DO IT ALL AGAIN TOMORROW OF THE SPECIAL COVERAGE. A LOT OF OTHER BIG HEADLINES, WE WILL CATCH YOU UP WITH ALL OF IT WHEN WE PICK UP OUR REGULA
