"This Is Where We Draw The Line!" | Iran Attacks Israel

well welcome to a special Piers Morgan uncensored debate about the ongoing situation with Iran and Israel and of course what's still going on in Gaza uh passions are running high on both sides so I brought people from both sides together today to have a free and Frank and fearless conversation about exactly what is going on right now so I've been joined by the comedian podcaster Dave Smith first time we've met in public uh in person great to see you Dave very nice to meet you the conservative commentator Deborah Lee great to see you the Palestinian American activist Nadin kiswani good to see you back Nadin and joining us uh remotely from uh Los Angeles is El Labon who's an Iranian British American activist and lawyer uh and it's the front page of the New York Post today uh after a very powerful video that you put on uh social media which has really captured people's attention uh in which you lambast people for only now waking up to what has been going on in Iran uh so welcome to all of you uh Dave let me start with you a lot of stuff has been going on in the last few days and at the center of it is the fact that Israel attacked a uh consulate that belongs to Iran in Syria killing uh some military leaders from uh Iran and Iran having signaled it would do this responded with tremendous Force but also uniquely directly at Israel from Iran which we haven't seen before uh some people think this was just theater that they warned people deliberately so that this would just be something that would be for maybe for the domestic audience at home others think it actually signals a real escalation here and we might be teetering if we're not Camp careful on a major war in the region what's your take on this well okay there's no question that there is a threat of a wider war in the region and that's been true long before these missiles went off that's really been true since October 7th um you have a lot of Dynamics with the houthis Hezbollah um and of course Iran this was clearly theater I mean there they gave 72 hours warning this was this was very similar to after Trump uh assassinated solomani and they sent that missile at the American base didn't kill anybody it did not seem like they were trying to Iran has even come out and said after this we're done we we responded they felt I think they needed to to save face to their own domestic population and one of the best things that Donald Trump ever did in his presidency was after that response from Iran he said fine you can have the last word we took out the person we wanted to take out we didn't lose any any of our people um Biden clearly has signaled that he doesn't want Israel to respond to this Israel would be insane to respond to Iran as they've claimed they're going to do why would they be insane because listen at this point Israel has lost much of the world uh over this war and they'd basically be waving the finger at the US uh to do this they're they'd be risking a wider War uh Joe Biden has signaled that they'd have to go at it alone that he's not going to back them up on any offensive attack against Iran what you know every pro-israeli person that I've ever met has always talked about uh the Peril of Israel that we're this tiny little country surrounded by all of these hostile Nations and there's so much anti-Semitism in the world if that's the case why would you intentionally try to make this a broader Regional War okay Deborah why I think that it's extremely important for a sovereign country to defend themselves 300 ballistic missiles if that was sent to any other country the United States where I'm a resident and I'm a citizen only a citizen of the United States if we receive 300 ballistic missiles overnight even if it took 10 hours 3 days to get here that country would cease to exist and it's only a question of sovereignty when it comes to Israel which in and of itself is an anti-israel ideology that oh why should Israel be able to defend themselves I do not want a bigger War I do not want it to get bigger I don't want more people dying I want this war to come to an end as fast as possible but I think that this can't be the norm that oh you can just send ballistic missiles at Israel hundreds and nothing happens you can just get away with it I think deterrence is the most powerful tool we have in the Middle East and that Terror groups only listen to force they don't listen to Peaceful the the ultimate deterrent here was that Iran fired off 300 missiles and absolutely nothing apart from one or two apparently landed anywhere near Israel one little girl was was badly injured which is appalling but in terms of what they were trying to do perhaps with these missiles and what actually happened it was a failure so wasn't it proof that actually unlike October the 7th Israel's defenses held up very well and wasn't it also extremely pertinent to this that you had Jordan racing to help them you had Saudi Arabia racing to help them you had the UK you had France and other countries I mean there was a big Coalition immediately helping Israel to repel these missiles isn't that in itself a a pretty clear deterrent that you can try but you're not going to get anywhere I mean I think it was great to see the countries come together in defense of Israel but this is more of a testament to the Iron Dome than anything else thank God for the Iron Dome it is amazing technology it protected millions of lives if this did not exist these Rockets could have fallen they don't know if it's falling on an Arab family a Jewish Family a Jews family they just want to kill people and thank God that Israel was able to defend themselves what do you think Israel should do I mean right now I think they need to do something I'm not a military adviser but I think something along the lines that says you cannot mess with us we are a sovereign country you can't send 300 ballistic missiles and get away I think that would either be a threat of force or I think threatening is rightfully so right now that would be the first step saying hey you do this again or we're going to weaponize we're going to get ready to come for you you don't touch us we will destroy it we will blow your regime off the map and can I just I mean if we're talking about the principle of a sovereign country is Iran a sovereign country is Syria a sovereign country because Israel bombs Syria every couple months with impunity okay that in of itself is not true but Israel we mean that's a fact Israel BS Syria whenever they feel like of terrorism they supported they not they support Kamas they support no evidence evidence that they supported October 7 that has nothing to do with their sov listen wellist it is a separ attack and this is you brought up the issue of a sovereign country and then as soon as I ask the question we're pivoting to other things first of all our CIA has said that they believe the Iranians the Iranians were shocked on October 7th so there's no evidence has been provided they were Israel it's the Islamic regime and the Islamic Republic does not well the Islamic that's part of it but the Islamic Republic has made life a living hell for Iranians for many years Iranian Jews live there there was a GL okay I'm sorry I understand I understand what you're saying yeah nobody's argu support I'm not arguing that Iran is not a repressive government that's not my argument but you're making the case that there's the the argument is a sovereign country and so that's why Israel is in defense of this I'm just saying is Syria a sovereign country because as you noted Pierce that's where this started well let me bring in Nadine here we we've had some fiery debates before about what's happening in Gaza but on this do you have any defense for what is happening in terms of what Iran did I mean I agree with your framing I think that the ultimate message of deterence was sent by Iran it was ultimately um their Embassy their sovereignty that was attacked at first they actually had two people that were killed by these um missiles that Israel sent and they didn't kill anyone you know just as um the yemeni people who have been seizing these ships um are are sending a message that you know let in humanitarian Aid and we'll let these ships pass through it's not about um killing people it's why why should Israel just accept people firing rockets at them well why should anyone accept Israel firing Rockets come to that part of the debate in a minute but why should Israel ever accept people firing rockets at them whether it's the hoties whether it's Hezbollah whether it's Hamas whether it's Iran why should they just in principle they are I mean you you put it right there they are a tiny country surrounded by I mean I once interviewed Netanyahu in Jerusalem and he took me to a map behind his desk and it was quite a powerful thing he did performative but powerful he said watch and he put his hand on Saudi Arabia he put his hand on Iran his hand on Egypt he went round all the big countries bordering uh Israel and then he took his thumb and he went watch and he put his little thumb where Israel was surrounded by these huge handprint countries people in Israel feel pretty vulnerable because of that and they feel vulnerable because they're constantly being attacked now I will come to the other part of that which is how they responded to October the 7th I will do that with you but just on this alone if a country like uh Iran decides to fire 300 missiles AI what are you supposed to do as a country I mean isra the Israelis are clearly trying um to bring in the US to a regional a broader Regional War this is what their MO was from the beginning that wasn't the question I asked you I think that's that's what they were trying to do though no I'm asking you what what should Israel do in response to what happened to them what's the correct response for any country if you're hit with 300 missiles I think they need to understand that the world is growing tired angry and frustrated with the countless deaths that we're seeing happening in Gaza tens and tens of thousands of people so many children uh people are starving to death people are freezing to death they need to understand that the world is angry and they need to put an end that had nothing to do with why Iran launched 300 missiles at Israel it was nothing to do with happened in Gaza except that Israel would say they attacked the Consulate in Syria as a part an attack on people they believed were collaborating with herass over October the 7th so it does have it to do with it it does but that wasn't the main focus was a Revenge attack for what happened at the consulate you know I think it wasn't about actually what's going on in Gaza you know I don't think that there is really anything left to debate here aside from the fact that there is a genocide going on it's been going on for 6 months Israel is a rogue state just as Nazi Germany just as aart South Africa was just be honest you want us to take it you want us to all die to these missiles that's the honest answer that you're avoiding here if you can't say it is wrong for a country to send 300 ballistic missiles to innocent civilians I could say that they can you say it was wrong for Israel to put Gazza Under Siege and blockade for the better part of the last two decades for them to murder 40,000 people for to Mur 15,000 children okay your numbers are coming from Kamas for 1948 by why is it not onas to the Palestinian people let me let me bring in El who's trying to get in here elica you are the only actual Iranian amongst us you were born there so what is your response to what you've heard so far well I'm just I'm really frustrated with the complete Distortion of the narrative like you're disc you're talking about these strikes in Syria first of all not being on an Iranian Embassy so let's just get our fact straight it was on a military base that was next to the Embassy why is the military base there why is the Islamic Republic um making Syria vulnerable to these attacks you want to talk about bombs on Syria guess who's doing that guess who's doing that it's the Islamic Republic by using other countries as a base so it makes Syrian people vulnerable to that so let's not just act like there's strikes on there for no reason second of all you talk about civilians people were actually killed in that strike which targeted senior irgc leaders who were meeting with Hezbollah meeting with Hezbollah to do what exactly cuz let's just talk about what's been happening for the past six months much less the past uh four decades which is that we have seen October 7th okay which was an act of War let's be clear um let's dispel this narrative that there's no evidence that the Islamic Republic supported that it's been reported over and again it was reported in the Wall Street Journal um Republic no let me finish I'm not done what do you think that the Islamic Republic is training sponsoring funding its proxies for what do you think they are funding its proxies for in in in in Israel in um uh sorry in Gaza in in uh Yemen in in Lebanon and all of that all of that to strike Israel um on October 7th every single day since October 7th firing Rockets into Israel and then when there was a strike on irgc leaders planning a meeting with Hezbollah to further attack Israel you want to turn around and say oh people were killed guess who was killed the people that were killed are the people when um the Islamic Republic struck Israeli embassies in different countries actual civilians okay not military senior personnel and guess who else would have been killed if it wasn't for the Iron Dome 300 Rockets you're talking about hundreds and thousands of deaths so you're relying on the fact that there was an Iron Dome to protect the fact like oh well nothing really happened a lot happened and a lot would have happened if Israel didn't have to invest so much into protecting its civilians and you can't rely on that as a defense and not only that let's go back to talk about when you talk about that that the strike on solomani and you say oh well nothing really happened they just did a small retaliatory whatever that's not the case they actually let's talk about flight 752 when they shot down a plane from tan going to Ukraine killing many many many innocent people on that plane because you know what the Islamic Republic does it takes it out on its own people that's what they do and that's what they're doing right now they're CRA cracking down on Iranian women in the streets to show that they're the big bad wolf because they know that they don't want any smoke with Israel but they want to remind you who they are and guess who they're taking it out on on the Iranian people and this is where we draw the line we draw the line at this vocal support for the Islamic Republic Being Framed as they as the victim in this story that they have been orchestrating for decades orchestrating terrorism Regional stability for decades you want to talk about the houis that are fighting for Freedom how dare you how dare you not acknowledge what the houthis are doing in Yemen do you do you listen to yemenis and their voices and what they have to say they are being terrorized they are being starved they are being killed a a a young Arabic woman is on death row right now in Yemen for criticizing the hoodis are you speaking about their rights when you talk about Yemen people fighting for freedom in the Red Sea how are you going to call Freedom takers Freedom Fighters that's a good let me just jump in I want to bring in the others because you've raised some very interesting points there Dave you were bristling at some of it though what well look I just think we have to have one standard here and this is kind of the point I was getting to with national sovereignty like let's if we're going to talk about things let's have one standard if our concern is over what's been happening to the people in Yemen as you said what the houthis are doing to them do you know what's been happen happening to the people of Yemen over the last8 years has been the number one humanitarian crisis in the world in the war that Saudi Arabia launched on them with full backing from the United States of America both uh uh Obama and Trump through every day of his administration we were refueling their fight their their fighter jets okay we were very implicated in that war so okay if you care about horrible things happening to the people of Yemen then you better be criticizing Saudi Arabia and the United States of America this war just ended over in in the last year the eight years previous to that were that's a whataboutism let me tell I'm not finished you said you weren't finished no you said you weren't finished before I'm not finished now what aboutism is a word that people yell when you call them out on their hypocracy I'm saying let's have one standard abut not I can explain to you why it's a whataboutism what what are we teenagers what does this word even mean I'm putting this into historical so that you understand okay or what aboutism deflect from the issue that was presented the issue that I presented to you okay it's a logical fallacy what I presented to you was the fact that the Yemen people do not support the houthis and you you brought up well what about the fact that they don't support this and this I didn't bring thatt the way I didn't know hold on let's just be clear here no let me explain so you understand I'm not saying that let me finish my sentence okay go ahead what I told you is that the yemeni people have been vocal if you would listen to their voices you don't listen to their voices because they the radical and extremist voices are the ones that are propped up okay by the algorithm by the media and the people on the ground that are telling you they don't support the the houthis that's support resistance I'm not uh certainly I I don't know exactly I'm open to the idea that there are a lot of people in Yemen who do not support the houthis I'm not defending the way the houthis treat their people I'm not defending the way the Iranian government treats their people what I'm saying is that if we're going to not be Hypocrites here and we're criticizing them because we're concerned about how the people of Yemen are treated where is this uh criticism for the much bigger disaster that's been caused in that country over the last eight years and if you want to talk in terms of how the people feel it is as close to unanimous as you're going to get across the Muslim world that they are opposed to what Israel is doing to God and the idea that they wouldn't want the houis standing up to the isra hang on some G hang on to say what Iran has done here it's actually achieved what many think was almost impossible is it's made people gravitate back to Israel right it has brought people together with Israel because they thought well actually look at this they 300 rockets launched from Iran uh clearly presenting a massive threat to the people of Israel right at the moment when you're right Global support for Israel was beginning to fade away pretty quickly so I I would argue that what what Iran has done here is a very self-defeating thing if the desire was to try and continue to isolate Israel for what it's been doing in Gaza this is the worst thing that Iran could have done listen there there might be something to that and I'm not saying that this necessarily was a great strategic decision um but I don't think you're right about that I mean look the when you say the United people or pushed back toward Israel I think what you're thinking about is the fact that all of these countries that you just pointed out all helped Israel defend themselves but the truth is that it's not actually that shocking that Jordan and Saudi Arabia and look the Sunni Gulf States or Jordan's not a Gulf State but these Sunni States here they're American sock puppets we we buy them off for billions and billions of dollars and prop them up they do but what the wider World sees Dave they just see Israel coming under attack from Iran and they see two major Arab countries Jordan and Saudi Arabia racing to support their defense at a time when much of the Arab world is in Rage about what has been happening in G in terms of how Israel has executed its attack on uh on Hamas in in response to October the 7th so you know I I would agree with you there's no doubt that that support for Israel had been dissipating fast but when I saw the reaction to what happened here I was I was struck by two two major Arab countries going well we know this is unpopular what's happening in Gaza but this is something we're going to support Israel but I think you might be conflating the actions of governments with popularity amongst the people I mean I'm I'm open to evidence on this but I do not see any real realignment Happening Here look Israel has by the way they've been conducting this war and the brutality of it they have been alienating more of the world than I've ever seen them alienate in my lifetime to the point where 50% of democratic voters believe this is a genocide this is a major problem for Joe Biden's re-election campaign and this is just however you feel about there's no doubt that they have turned much of the world away from them and I'm just not seeing any evidence that roet shot down change Democrat so pro Israel before October 7th well yeah but that's that's also a part of an argument let me ask you much more so the scenes that we've been seeing in America in the last 48 hours these concerted protests on major Bridges around America right through New York and Washington and so on what we've been seeing people in Michigan chanting death to America you know pramas slogans being chanted and so on what do you make of this I think it's absolutely hurting one I think it's just obviously disgusting to harm regular everyday civilians the people that are on the bridge just trying to get to work to the airport their kids to doctor's appointments they have nothing to do with the war that's going on in the Middle East they have no way to affect it you're not going to change their mind by making them miss a flight or anything like that and I think it's really hurting their cause that they're inconveniencing people we've seen this for months the Christmas tree lighting the Thanksgiving Day Parade anything that would bring joy to Americans it seems like they want to protest to disrupt it and that's not going to make Americans more favorable and personally I live in Manhattan and I've heard many of I've seen many of the protests and I've heard them chanting we want another inata even claiming things like that that's not getting anybody to support you that is not helping you separate yourselves from people you accuse of committing a genocide which is a Li and of itself I think that it's really harming their cause and Americans at least the people in New York are very fed up with this stop making our lives inconvenient you have a freedom to protest you don't have a freedom to block traffic and ruin people's lives that are just trying to get on day okay n you've been on a lot of these protests hang on one second come to you but Nadine you've been on these protests including yesterday when I hear people chanting death to America in the heart of America that sends a shutter down my spine I'm not even American and we're seeing similar things happening in the United Kingdom um I believe passionately in peaceful protest no doubt about that at all but when I see what's been going on with sections and there sections it's not the whole uh protest crowds it's unnerving to see this kind of hatred for America from people living here um well I'd just like to start off by saying that the protests have still been peaceful you know phrases and actions that have been taken at the protest haven't actually been violent they haven't harmed anyone and I don't think we should focus what do you think about people chanting death to America as they did in one video clip last I think that that's just a phrase maybe said by an individual well no the whole crowd began joining in I didn't see that so this guy this guy said it and then the whole crowd began chanting it what would you condemn that I'm here to talk about the entire you're here to my questions actually would you condemn what they were chanting death to America I think we should condemn Palestinians actually being killed okay I think that that's not the question I'm asking you so I will ask you about Gaza um but on the question I asked you would you condemn people in America chanting death to America what do you say I don't condemn how people choose to express their rage verbally I don't condemn that because at the end of the day the reason they're saying that is because the US is sending the tax dollars and the weapons that are actually you support do you support them chanting death to America I don't I don't chant that myself so I don't know why you're trying me in this type of I'm asking you to condemn it you don't want to I'm asking I'm asking do you therefore should I assume you support them chant those aren't the chance that I would I would personally you must either hang on I just want to pin you on this you must surely either condemn it or support it no you don't need to Neal to America terrifying how How would how would anyone do do you think if they went to AA Enchanted death to Palestine with Hamas terrorists nearby I don't I don't understand these hypotheticals there's actual because they're very lucky they're very lucky to be doing a context that you're removing I'm going to explain the context they are doing this in a country where they're very fortunate where freedom of speech is not just tolerated but encouraged if you tried to do death to Palestine as a chance with a crowd in the middle of Gaza with Hamas people nearby I suspect you would be killed pretty quickly do you are you saying that people who chant death to America should be killed in the US or should they be able to express their freedom of speech I'm saying First Amendment right I don't think saying death to America is a free it is freedom but come to you one second I'll be very quick with this but I'm just gonna say I hate to jump over to the other side of this issue now but I've just seen this so many times on your show when you have someone who I agree with by the way I'm totally against this this war by Israel I think they should just stop it I think the treat byas okay anyway fact matter yeah the fact is Israel is doing this to Gaza right now and that's what I'm I'm literally trying to agree with you about something get your fact straight just staying that October 7th happened I'm saying right now I right now okay right now Israel is is fighting this War I think their treatment of the Palestinians since before the state of Israel has been totally inexcusable but I see this on your show all the time where you'll be asking someone who I agree with like you broadly on this topic do you condemn this everybody's always running away from it and I think it just makes their argument so much weaker absolutely stop chanting death to America stop blocking streets stop referring to Hamas as Freedom Fighters you are doing such a disservice to the people you're trying to advate toally agree sometimes like these these people always say always with respect to you but you always say things like you're trying to trap me no I'm not I'm just literally asking you to condemn something that any normal rational Humane person it is by the way instinctively just it is freedom of speech I mean in America you have the right to say whatever you want but it's a stupid thing to say it's a wrong thing to say you can condemn October 7th you can condemn Hamas you can condemn these excesses and still say I think what Israel is doing to the Palestinian people is wrong and they ought to stop it ient yes I'm I'm happy to condemn plenty of things on both sides of this let me bring in El you've been trying to let me jump in there first of all first of all when we talk about freedom of speech in this country per the Constitution we know that there's not absolute freedom of speech okay there are nine discret pockets of exceptions to freedom of speech one of them being incitement of violence okay so let's not act like it's just willy-nilly that you could can go out there and say death to America second of all and is very specific instance this is cover this this is full intellectualism you're using your legal background to try to trample People's First Amendment do not interrupt me you've been speaking and I have something to say about this when you say death to America okay it is with blight insensitivity about the fact that we are living in a nation of immigrants do you understand that we are living in a nation of immigrants where people come here to escape you all happy for me to myself I'm happy to disant myself from slans like death to America but I think it's important to understand that the context of condemning Palestinian resistance condemning the people in Gazza paves the way way for this genocide to be carried out and that's exactly what we you need to let me my sentence okay cuz you're not letting me sentence I don't want to but that was a significant concession there by Nadine that she if if we wanted her to distance herself she will and she has so okay I accept that when you talk about when you talk about death to America you are talking about death to a democratic nation that designed protect no you cannot keep interrupting me you cannot keep interrupting me that's extremely disrespectful you're talking about death to a nation that is designed to protect a nation of immigrants with the rights and the Privileges afforded to them from the Constitution who have escaped countries that were killed for exercises exercising those rights to free speech okay this is not a perfect system don't get me wrong this is not a perfect system but it's it's a system that we are working on it is a system that I've worked in the criminal justice system for this exact reason okay to improve this system that I've been working on for the past 12 years but at no point am I going to turn around and say death to a nation that is the only place that we have for this type of progress for this type of um protection of minority communities this type of protection for immigrants okay and it it's not a perfect democracy and when it fails we take to the streets when it failed for Rodney King what did we do we took to the streets and the doj got involved and we made it happen What would happen if you took to the streets in Iran to protest the lynchings that they're doing the many evil St style lynchings that they're doing every day you would be killed so you do not have the nerve to say death to America this is not a suzero game you absolutely can support the people of Palestine you absolutely can stand up for their rights their right to statehood their right to Freedom their right to sovereignty as I do but you do not have the right to cross those lines and corrode our Democratic Society that protects us yeah I agree with you um okay let's just finally end with just moving just to Gaza um because obviously it's been slightly put to one side while we've been having this uh this ongoing thing with Iran Israel's position has been very clear on this from the start they want to eliminate Hamas Hamas is dedicated to getting rid of Israel um we know that because after October the 7th a spokesman went on television and brazenly said if we can do it again and again and again we will that represents a clear public existential threat to Israel and to everyone living there how does Israel get rid of Hamas who want to eliminate them in any different way to the way they're doing it allbe it with the catastrophic death toll with the appalling humanitarian crisis and everything when you have a terrorist organization embedded amongst a civilian population with all the tunneling that's now being found and so on is there any other way they could do this so if you accept that they have a justification in getting rid of a terror group that wants to destroy them is there a different way to do this uh well the short answer is no I don't think there is um I think look you have to understand what creates the environment where you have this type of death cult like Hamas these these terrorists and look this is not again this is stuff that the CIA talks about it was General mistal right okay you just complained about interrupting right so anyway it was General mistal no my my my my page Froze all right oh oh sorry I apologize was friendly fire It was friendly fire look General mccristal this was not like an anti-war Dove right this was the guy who was running the war in Afghanistan a serious General he was the one who coined the term Insurgent math right what's 10 minus 2 20 because it when you kill two of the insurgents they all had Brothers they had fathers they had friends and they all join up and so what Israel is doing here is guaranteeing that there will be more Hamas or Hamas like groups look here's the truth okay Israel um and this has been widely reported uh in The Times of Israel in heret in the new yor York Times all over the place uh in the Jerusalem Post Benjamin Netanyahu embarked on a strategy of propping up Hamas it was a very cynical strategy I don't think that's I don't think that's even disputable I mean and why but the most important thing is the because he wanted to split the the Palestinians into two groups and why Palestinian Authority in Hamas because he felt that it would be better for Israel's security no no listen well that's really what he was he said in his own words so that we never have to give them a state he propped up I don't think I listen I don't think Netanyahu has ever one of the two-state solution I don't think actually for the last 10 years he's even shown any desire to have peace but I just want to say this is where the Israeli justification completely falls apart because they're saying well look we got this terrorist group Hamas they're hiding in these tunnels and sure it is awful that we got to kill all these babies in order to get them but we just have to do it but when you know that you actually propped up this group so that those babies would never get their freedom to begin with then I'm sorry you lose that excuse okay Deborah think it's quite a powerful argument I do I think Netanyahu at the end of all this he's got to go right because what's clear from Israelis is that they support what he's doing with the war but they don't support him for what happened October the 7th they think he should be held accountable they want him out yeah I think just addressing your argument that the framework of everything matters Israel is not just going in killing babies Kamas hides among civilians makes it even harder and Israel is an obligation about dang to get their hostages back they're excuse me watch yourself Israel needs to get their hostages back they have 180 plus a little bit less now who are still sitting there and it's crazy that we have Americans there and Joe Biden's doing nothing but as far as BB Netanyahu goes it's I think there's two different sides here there are people who are pro-israel who want to see him step down and there are people who are pro Palestine who want to see him step down the pro-israel side for me if it was my children that were being held hostage for over six months nobody could stop me from going in there and getting them back you know I don't have children so I think it's a little easier to say that now giving the circumstances but I just cannot imagine what these families do you think Israel should finish the job absolutely I think Israel should do anything even if that means attacking Rafa where there are one and a half million people many of whom are refugees listen I I get your point and I do have children so I can you know put myself in that situation if I had children who were being held hostage or children who were killed on on October 7th I'm sure I would just want to kill everybody all I'm asking people to do is just also put themselves in the other shoe th those people in Gaza they also have children and their children have been dying for many many years also think you I also think I thinkes which is completely right but I think they made a good point about the ideology that you can kill as many Hamas terrorists as you like but you won't kill the ideology in fact what you might be doing there been a big fear of mine in the last few months is of what Israel may be doing in its desire to get rid of Hamas with all the collateral damage of all the innocent civilians particularly children because of the makeup of Gaza being 50% children that actually what they're going to do is fuel the ideology which drove Hamas in the first place exactly and who's killing and starving the hostages hang on it's Israel that's killing its own hostages it's Israel that's kill starving its own hostages and even the world Central kitchen workers that you know the world was rightly outraged about but where is that outrage when it comes to 40,000 Palestinians uh and I think ultimately as long as there is oppression there will be resistance to it and I said this on your show before uh in order to truly kill Palestinian resistance they're going to have to kill every single person inza what they're how does this end you know and I also wanted to mention something um just generally about what was spoken before you know the where's Daddy AI program where they literally follow um people from Hamas until they get home and then bomb them with their families inside of their home so the idea that you know Hamas is using human Shields is absolutely ridiculous and I need to refute that and it by there's no doubt that Hamas has built tunnels around hospitals around dayare centers you know children's centers schools and so on there's no doubt they've done that uh they don't even make a pretense of it so I just don't think that's an arguable Point anymore and when it comes to killing people who are around their families hamash showed absolutely zero care at all in who they indiscriminately brutally murdered brutally murdered were brutally murdered by the Israeli Army itself the missiles that caused the oober L the truth is there were people who were killed in crossfire but that's still on Hamas I mean you still can't like take the blame off of them the truth is that Hamas does not mind Palestinians dying what Hamas was trying to provoke this is what terrorism always is Right Osama Bin Laden hit us on 911 he said this in his own words it's not because he thought that would take down the United States of America he wanted to lure us into a war in Afghanistan like he did to the Soviets to bankrupt us and what does Hamas want in this case they want Israel to do what they know Israel was going to do actually I this is where I think look I don't have uh all the hard evidence for this but it seems to me what might be very likely that's going on here is that Iran's tentacles are behind a lot of this that they helped Hamas do what they did in terms of arming them and giving them money and so on and that they wanted something that would draw Israel into what they would see as a massive over response and the same with the rocket firing into Israel is they're trying to go Israel and potentially United States into okay what they would see as an over response which might play into their hand well maybe you're right I haven't seen evidence to to say that that I'll come to you for the final word yeah well let D finish this point listen I haven't seen evidence to suggest that it wouldn't shatter my worldview if I did but if that's the case what's the answer then right it's like what what do we do to fight Osama Bin Laden you don't get bogged down in a 20-year regime change War fight them with Special Operations just like Israel always did before Netanyahu they never treated the terrorism problem as a military problem it was always assassination campaigns special ops you don't you don't uh just recklessly kill innocent people in this way because then you turn Global opinion against yourself I think you make a good point let's come to you because you are front page of a New York Post today your rhetoric about this has really resonated with people let me give the final word to you and I I think this is the thing that I struggle with is just there's always such a distortion of the narrative that it's really frustrating and hard to correct look all of us here should be on the same page this is not a zero sum game we should all be in alignment in these things we don't need to be in opposition you know we we all agree that Netanyahu isn't going to be in favor of a two-state solution we all agree that we need um um um statehood and sovereignty for both of these nations we all agree that we want peace between Israel Palestine and Iran some of these things are really inappropriately phased when you say things like you know when you kill Palestinians you're just creating a new generation of terrorists this is extremely racist would you ever say that about American kids that were orphaned would you say oh these will probably grow up to be terrorists that is the bigotry of low expectations let's talk about what it really is let's talk about what is always omitted from the conversation which is the that have a group of empowered fundamentalists and terrorists who take child soldiers and they say look what happened to you you know your suffering your oppression that was caused by this and the only way to resolve that is for you to become a martyr it's just like any child trafficking ring that is at the core of what creates this fundamentalist extremist ideology you know and so yes of course you can say that um anyone who's oppressed is going to resist but this is not resistant going into a different country and slaughtering 1,00 innocent civilians by no stretch is resistance and so if you want to talk about you know what's going to happen to this next generation of extremely traumatized kids in Gaza I think we can all acknowledge that just all of the tragedies that we've witnessed the the answer is that let's guide them out of these um extremist fundamentalist trafficking when they TR to they're mow down when they try to protest they're mow down when they go on hunger strike nobody cares every single Avenue diplomatic or otherwise political social that Palestinians have taken in order to achieve our freedom have either been ignored people have become imprisoned for it so what option is left for Palestinian people other than resist do you know what I I think I said this to you before I remember to wrap it up here's what I say really quickly we run out of time we've run out of time but here's what I would say I I just think that I remember it's a different situation but some ways there were lots of parallels the Northern Ireland Wars which went on for many decades and everyone thought were completely unsolvable intractable because you had two completely different uh sets of ideologies and they did eventually get to peace and they they got there by having leaders who actually came with a desire for peace and at the moment I don't see that with anyone in the Hamas leadership I don't see it with anyone in the Netanyahu government and what you need you need to have completely freshly ship on both sides that actually has a genuine desire to forge peace and I hope and pray that the one thing that comes out of this is that that you get the right leaders with the right mentality because Norman Ireland now is a pretty peaceful place to be and it was a place where when I grew up they were bombing British Mainland left right and center and I never thought that would be possible in my lifetime but it was so thank you listen good to see you Nadine good to see you Deborah good to see you Dave good to see you elica I really appreciate the debate uh and and hope we can do it again thank you very much thank you so much

Channel: Piers Morgan Uncensored

Views: 1,360,290

Keywords: piers morgan, piers morgan uncensored, interview, debate, piers morgan debate, piers morgan interview, israel, iran, hamas, gaza, erica le bon, nerdeen kiswani, nerdeen kiswani piers morgan, dave smith, debra lea, israel debate, palestine debate, piers morgan israel debate, piers morgan iran debate, piers morgan hamas, piers morgan palestine, elica le bon

Id: VwFmc6ouWQc

Length: 40min 32sec (2432 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 16 2024