This Is How I Build Trust In ANY Negotiation! | Chris Voss

all right but there's a uh there's a communication lesson in there there's a negotiation lesson there's uh there's a sales lesson in there buried in that what do you think it is I'm sorry what do you think the lesson is what is it see the thing that I love about hostage negotiation we've come to learn is when we invented this back in the 1970s we didn't know it was all Neuroscience based you know we're psychologists psychologists did a great job before we could actually learn inside look inside the brain and see how it works everything we did in hostage negotiations backed up by Neuroscience and communication the Neuroscience negotiation communication lesson here is you're up to 31 smarter in a positive frame of mind 31 that's no small jump the the mood that we have directly correlates to how efficiently your brain functions for hostage negotiators we would calm people down we'd use this thing called The Late Night FM DJ voice and people calm down we didn't know why it worked we just know it worked it actually turned their brain down 31 smarter in a positive frame of mind what's the lesson here for you now as a hostage negotiator you know do I show up at a bank going like hey I'm from Iowa I just flew in boy are my arms tired I'm not telling jokes you know I didn't I didn't go on Anderson Cooper telling a joke but I did use humor humor appropriate to the context when you're using humor you're up to 31 smarter think about that you're also causing your counterpart to be up to 31 smarter putting them in a mood one of our one of our terms for negotiation flexibility never be so sure of what you want that you wouldn't take something better cool all right so that sounds cool I'll do that how do I get something better to happen appropriate humor in the moment I don't tell that joke Jeffrey tubin does not give me the best commercial my company ever had the Black Swan group that's the baddest ass name I ever heard what is that he does that spontaneously I kick I cause him to have the Opera the idea in his head he doesn't know it came for me because I made him feel better he gives me something enormously valuable receiving nothing in return but it's contextual to the moment context is always important a friend of mine was telling me he's in a negotiation he works for Raytheon what is Raytheon Raytheon is the government's arms dealer right so weapons on behalf of the US government arms dealer around the world they're selling weapons to Korea South Korea they got a problem the relationship is breaking down they send my friend to South Korea to negotiate with these guys South Koreans are so mad at these guys they put them in a room in the middle of in the middle of this building a room that's got no windows you know I'm surprised I didn't waterborne when I came in but they got them in a room with no windows because they're trying to make it unpleasant for them and it's an unpleasant negotiation one in the middle of this negotiation the lights go out so if your room with no windows you're in Pitch Black the lights go completely out there sitting there he says after a couple minutes sitting in a in a pitch black he says whose hand is that on my leg and the lights come back on and they all laugh and then they make the deal now of course they felt better about each other but they simultaneously felt better about each other and got smarter in the moment this is crazy here's how crazy this is and here's how you can begin to override your system and hack your system because two out of three in this room are not normally in a positive frame of mind there's a number of things we know about the types of human beings that survived on a planet and regardless of gender ethnicity we break down pretty much into three types fight flight and make friends now to make friends type from the caveman days is normally in a pretty good mood the fight flight guys I'm a fight guy you know we're not running around a positive frame of mind on a regular basis so we're actually not tapping into our full mental capacity how can you hack that if you're in one of those types if you're like me they did a psychological experiment where they asked people to hold a pencil in their in their mouth without letting their lips touch it what are you doing you're smiling right can we fool ourselves if we know in a positive frame of mind what happens if you don't know you're in a positive frame of mind is there a hardware connection between the facial muscles the nerves in the brain they did the experiment their brain picked up anyway didn't know they were smiling you force a smile onto your face if I look at you and I smile I hit your mirror neurons it's an involuntary reaction I could pick anybody out in this room if I smile at you even if you frown back at me you're going to be fighting the smile in your face on your uh fighting the smile in your brain with your frown but that still means I'm still hitting your mirror neurons you can't stop it if you can hear I can hit your mirror neurons if you can see I can hit your mirror neurons it's an involuntary response here's another crazy piece of information along these lines that I found out recently they gave Botox to women who are depressed this now this is the our sample group happens to be women do not be misled by the fact that they're women because this work because they're human beings not because they're women you got to be careful the kind of daddy you get if you misinterpret data then you say things like playing basketball makes you tall you gotta understand how you interpret your data so sample size is women this works because they're human beings not because they're women they're depressed they give them Botox so they can't frown anymore the mood instantly elevates instantly because they override the system if you're a natural frowner you're hurting yourself bad news about that experiment is with botox they also have trouble smiling so they can't Elevate the rest of the way up there so Neuroscience rule make yourself smile you'll hack your system you'll communicate better you will get more you'll get surprises in your deals as unexpected stuff you get you get the Jeffrey tuben give you something enormously valuable you didn't give them anything in return so let me see if I can tell you a little bit more about myself I was the FBI's lead International kidnapping negotiator what did that mean what that meant was any American got kidnapped anywhere in the world it was my job to come up with a negotiation strategy that got you out set the stage for us to follow on and get the bad guys afterwards effectively the way that we ran the program was it's the same reason you give a bank teller fate money bank robber comes in you don't want the bank teller to get killed money's great evidence you actually want the bank robbery to leave with some money I think it's all the way back to his Hideout he divides up the money then you get the people that work with him it's a pretty good system so that's what I did and I worked kidnappings all over the world so if an American got grabbed someplace and let's make a distinction this is not Americans getting arrested by a government in North Korea that's an illegal detention that wasn't my thing what I did was kidnappers criminals terrorists that was my job so you might ask yourself all right so how busy is the lead International kidnapping negotiator well it's a big world and a lot of Americans doing really stupid things so you called on a regular basis but this instance in particular in Haiti Haiti's a little bit different ballgame um a lot of dual Nationals getting grabbed in Haiti bad guys don't know they're taking Americans or dual Nationals now this is happening on a regular basis because do you guys know this and this is one of the reasons why I'm an unabashed Patriot fan of the United States we're not perfect we got our shortcomings I think I think we're a phenomenal Place how many countries in the world if you're born there are you a citizen do you know I grew up in Iowa I know the accent doesn't sound like I grew up in Iowa but I grew up in Iowa I grew up there and I thought I was born here I'm entitled to citizenship it's the way the world it's it's the way things should be no it's not it's argued that there are only two developed Nations on the entire planet that have Birthright by citizen by citizenship by birth I believe the Latin term is just just Soleil which is right of the soil those of you who can speak light and forgive me for my butchering as a pronunciation two countries in the entire world to develop Nations U.S and Canada not one country in Europe you're born in England you get citizenship now you're born in Australia you get citizenship no they'd laugh at you they think that's hysterical United States right of birth as it turns out it's largely a creature uh a thought an idea of the Americas Most of the countries in North and South America for whatever reason how these cultures came to be here we believe in citizenship by Birthright what does this have to do with Haiti Haitian moms no the very best gift they could possibly give to their child on their child's literal first birthday is a gift of American citizenship and Privileges and opportunities that brings so I said moms one way or another illegal legal or illegal or finding a way to uh American soil so the child can be born an American citizen that's how that's why the bad guys don't want to grab in Americans they think they're grabbing Haiti Haitians at the time also recognition kidnapping is a business I I'm I'm the most practiced negotiator on an international Commodities so many other hostage negotiate kidnapping is a business is commodity business to us it's a horrible event to the kidnappers it's a job it's what they do it's Commodities business commodity happens to be human beings they don't care it's what they do they get a division of labor they got people that Acquire The commodity they got people that transport the commodity they got people that house the commodity they got people to release the commodity they got people that handle the transactions for the commodity they got a boss that sits back and watches everybody and criticizes what they do just like everybody else has a boss it criticizes what you do you guys you guys saw the movie Man on fire with Denzel Washington right who do you negotiate with in that movie The Voice the Voice's job was to negotiate it's a business Haitian kidnapping business at the time the bad guys got a great business model it's actually I was impressed with with what they'd come to as a business model carjack a car with more than one person in it let one person go keep the other person in the car you've immediately handled you know your notifications you don't have to worry about marketing if you will you pre-qualified your customer if they got a car they got money for a ransom dude in Haiti you got a car you got some dough you got money for a car and gas you can pay Ransom you're pre-qualified and what happens if you grab the one person in the family that nobody likes you got a car pretty sure Brian very short business model so I get a call one day 12 year old boy in Hades been grabbed two of your boys an American citizen his father is not his father knows that his son is an American citizen and because of that he's supposed to get help from the US government goes to the United States government says my son's a citizen he's been kidnapped and the state department says the FBI is going to be there to help you put my next slide or put my slides back up please I'm not sure what went through his mind when he heard that but I'm sure that probably about 15 minutes later he expected to hear and these guys would be there at his door Maybe they'd have FBI hats up but instead 15 minutes later he gets a call from some guy in Washington DC named Chris Voss and he literally says to me on a phone you're in Washington DC How You Gonna help me now how much time do I got for this guy hangs up the phone a couple seconds right how much time did I get you're me what do you say how long do you have to make a first impression do you know seven seconds same amount of time as me when you're making a first impression you think people aren't saying to themselves How You Gonna help me you think they're not saying that to themselves in that seven seconds what do you have to establish in that seven seconds what did I have to establish trust what else not confidence close competency not the same thing you got the same amount of time as me you got to establish the exact same things I had to establish you got somebody saying to you about you in their head the same thing that that father said to me on the phone how you gonna help me it's the same thing what do you say you're me what do you say now the reason why I knew what to say to this father is because I've done it wrong in the past time I showed up in the Philippines on a case that we're going to talk about in a few minutes I did it wrong they walked me into a room entire heads of the government are there because as Americans been grabbed I've been invited in by the Ambassador the Ambassador has personally signed off on me coming in the head of our office and manila's brought me in everybody other than the president of the Philippines is in the room the only reason the president is not there is his personal advisor is secretary of defense is there head of the police everybody is there and basically in summon substance what they say how are you going to help us I make the mistake of laying out my resume FBI agent s negotiator we're terrorism when attorney general's award for excellence investigation the FBI agents Association award for distinguishing exemplary service been on a terrorist task force in New York City for 14 years not only have I been trained by the FBI in Scotland Yard I write the book I wrote the book that we train from now foreign I will tell you they were suitably unimpressed they may as well have yawned right in my face I remember walking out of that meeting the head of our office goes those guys were disrespectful they challenged your credentials I'm from Iowa I go like how cool was that when did I ever get to argue with the Secretary of Defense of an entire country why is that why why is me you laying out me laying out my resume are you laying out your resume stupid number one it's all about me but number two your resume correlates loosely with whether or not you know what you're doing if your resume correlated accurately with what you did you guys would never make a bad hire would you would I say that father here's what I said all right so Haitian kidnappers are not killing kidnap victims these days I realize it's really stupid because they kill each other the drop of a hat but they're not killing kidnapped victims today is Thursday and Haitian kidnappers love the party on Saturday night so if you say the things that I want you to say when I want you to say we'll have your son out late Friday early Saturday morning he said tell me what you want me to do and we had a son out Saturday morning let's break down a little bit what I said or what I didn't say first of all which took more time me laying out my resume or me laying out what he was faced with it took less time for me to lay out what he was faced with didn't it I will tell you also in the course of getting his son out he never asked me how long I've been an FBI agent he never asked me how long I've been a negotiator he never asked me how many countries I'd negotiated in he never asked me how many cases in Haiti had negotiated and he never even asked me how many times I've been to Haiti you know how many times I've been to Haiti never I've never been to Haiti did I speak French did I speak Creole did he asked me those questions and you may have asked yourself already you know there's basically 168 countries in this world a lot of languages how many languages does Chris Paul speak if he negotiated all over the world and by now you realize the answer to that is barely one he didn't ask me those questions I told him what he was facing because when someone says how are you going to help me their first question is okay so you've been doing this for a long time do you see what I see do you know what I'm looking at I laid it out for him and I offered him the slightest bit of insight and they say to themselves wow if you see clearly what's in front of me there's a really good chance you know what you're doing do I have to explain this to you do I have to explain to you my challenges you lay it out one of two things happen they say to you that's right or they say no that's not it this is it what happens when they say that's not it this is it you're in dialogue you're in collaboration instantly you're trying to get to dialogue and collaboration instantly aren't you and many people don't realize it when somebody corrects you that means you're in collaboration you're in dialogue and you're on your way with that here's a couple of other things I did not do and one of them is probably the two the two worst habits you have did I try to get him to say yes you guys are hardwired to hear yes you guys are desperate for it you guys you guys got an addiction to yes you didn't know it was going to be that kind of a meeting did you hi hi Chris it's so bad here's how bad it is and getting you out of that you think getting people to say yes to yes momentum the yes proposition get them to say yes a lot of little things and you get and they say yes to the big thing you're addicted to that and getting out of that is going to be one of the most difficult things you could do not complicated but here's how difficult it's going to be everybody make a fist with either hand write them up left forefinger out now switch it hurt didn't it switch back some of you are going like I got your left Warfare I saw him right here cbc's this was that complicated what I asked you to do do you need to be do you need to be Elon Musk to know what I was trying to get you to do no but it was awkward it was difficult I know somebody in the back room right now going like [Music] here's the cool thing about that brain science the difficulty that you felt trying to get that done it's actually the creation of a new neural pathway ah it's a cool idea the Neuroscience rules are the path the synapses that fire together wire together now your yes habit is hardwired that road is built and you're used to screaming down that road in your thought processes getting out of it is going to take some repetitions how many 63. John Foley Blue Angel pilot I heard him give a speech probably about two years ago he talked about wiring grooves into their brain which is the same thing as the no Pathways the new habits that I'm talking about and they you know if they don't wire a Groove into their brain these guys crash into each other in the air and people start to die instantly and he said they did some research on it I said it took about 63 to 65 repetitions to put a new habit in the brain but at the very beginning it's as hard as that was and you quit you give up and you because you think it's going to be that hard the whole time like I'm not doing this anymore it hurts my head but you don't know how close you actually are to breaking through a new habit everybody knows what the the bell curve looks like it's very Steep and that Peaks and then you take off on the other end we're building you're building a new habit some of the new habits I'm going to share with you today at the beginning you just see how steep this thing is initially like you know this is too hard I'm not doing this anymore foreign but I got to get you out of the yes habit I got to get you out of that that is the worst thing you could possibly do I I don't even bother with the word yes and when we were when we were working on the book one of the guys that I was working with he said hey how'd you get the hostage negotiator how did you get kidnappers to say yes only question I can remember being thoroughly stumped by because I never really thought about it that hard at that time and I said no we never did it's a useless word she wouldn't even bother with it so some of you sitting there thinking right now like okay fine now what do you want me to do because that's all I do and you know what I close deals that way too you can't tell me that I don't close deals getting people to say yes now I'm not saying you can't do it I'm just saying your batting average isn't anywhere close to what it should be you're batting 125 when you should be batting 350 for you baseball players yeah stick to 125. you want to stay there because this is what it looks like and this is why it fails would you like to have a more efficient system would you like to have more customers would you like to have more free time buy my product now this is maybe there was a point in time when this was a good idea maybe but the swamp land timeshare salesman the coupon book the fifty thousand dollar coupon book salesman has already battered them so hard that they're battered by yes you guys know anecdotally what happens if you come across a battered child and you try to hug them they still Flinch and jump back from you but wait a minute I was trying to give him a hug I'm a good guy I meant well I wasn't trying to trap him I was trying to have integrity it doesn't matter they're bad everybody's battered by us you you got to stop this you gotta stop it okay fine you convince me now what you know who this is Jack Welch Jack one of the most famous CEOs former CEO GE author of a number of books Jack winning the real life NBA Jack Welch come to Los Angeles a couple years ago he and his wife Susie the latest book the real life NBA I'm gonna go to the book signing I'm going to ask Jack to come speak at the class I'm I'm teaching at that time at the USC Marshall School of Business in the MBA program negotiation I want Jack to come speak to my negotiation class how many people try to get Jack well to say yes to something that day everybody how many people in a book signing are trying going to try to get Jack Waltz to say yes to something they come up to them and say hey Jack you want to come to the house wife makes a great Milo how many people everybody you're me what do you say how much time have I got maybe not seven seconds even less than that because at a book signing what happens a guy like Jack Welch you come in when when you're about five six seven people from Jack somebody comes up to you and says what's your name they write your name down a piece of paper so Jack can write your name on the book they say but in reality so you don't talk to them he doesn't say half say to you what's your name I said Chris good luck keep going problem one there's 300 people online if I try to stop and talk to Jack Welch for even 20 seconds we're now there for six hours right problem two Jack watch a legitimate celebrity they don't know who I am they they haven't put me through a metal detector they don't know I I don't have a gun as a matter of fact I have a gun but they don't know that I'm an FBI agent they haven't got any ID for me I could come up I'm gonna get within arm's length of Jax Welch I could do what I want Jane Fonda was at a book signing a number of years ago Vietnam vet got with an arm's length of her own spit right in her face action is quicker than reaction I'm going to be arm's length from Jack Welch he's got security people there that are worried about his safety they know they can't stop me from doing whatever I want to do I can walk up to Jack Welch I could take his face in my hands and kiss him right on the lips if I wanted to you got a disgusted look on his face but they don't know what I'm going to do so everybody's more than jumping I walk up to Jack Welch and this is what I say is it a ridiculous idea for you to come and speak at the negotiation course that I teach at USC and he looks up and to the left he gets this really intense skull on his face and he just freezes it doesn't move and I think it just killed Jack watch because he's old right I figured he got mad and he had a stroke and he's gonna die because he's so angry he's gonna fall right in front of me and then they're gonna tackle me they're gonna blame me drag me on cuffs and I'll say but I'm an FBI agent hey will you kill Jack Welch doesn't matter so initially when he doesn't die I'm relieved but he's he still doesn't move and I'm thinking now he's going to start going security [Music] Furious finally looks at me and he says this is my personal assistant's name this is special Twitter account we have set up to communicate with her I will call her tell her who you are and what you want I think we're going to be in Los Angeles in the fall if we all will come in and speak to your course because it triggered enough I triggered a calibrated no a calculated no I changed the yes question to a no and I'm I'm here to tell you a calibrated no is worth five yeses think about think about what he thought through in the steps that he thought through before he answered me because all the rest of that stuff I would have had if he said yes I'd have said who do I get in touch with how do I coordinate with them how do I communicate them with them will you call them and brief them we're talking about the fall where you're going to be in a fall think of how many questions he went ahead and answered for me it's insane we do this on a regular basis I don't bother with yes we did a training in New York just about a earlier this month it's still May right about two weeks ago um very intense intensive master class I happened to run across Robert Herjavec from Shark Tank in New York or in La just a couple weeks ago by the way a wonderful guy I mean a wonderful gracious Charming impressive guy I would work with him I would work for him he was telling me about how he develops his people phenomenal guy I offer him a free ticket he's gracious enough to say how many can we buy and so we're going back and forth on how many he could buy and I'm trying to get a commitment out of him and the event selling like it is the door is slamming shut and I realized that if I don't get a nearly instantaneous commitment from him because we're charging people a lot of money for these tickets we're charging people just short of two thousand dollars per head to be there and every you know we got people buying them I can't keep this window open for him I don't care if he is a billionaire we've got people won't want these tickets so five o'clock on a Friday I have to get a commitment from him now we're in La five o'clock on a Friday it's 8 P.M here in New York the other problem is business opens in New York three hours earlier than it does in Los Angeles if I haven't got him committed before the start of the next business day he's out I sent him an email that says are you against making a commitment for these tickets now are you against paying for them before the start of business tomorrow and I get an email back instantly says no we're going to take three in total we'll pay for them before the before business starts tomorrow less than 20 minutes later I'm getting emails from his assistants to pay now what would you have done normally you know how many would you like would you please commit now can you pay before the close of business tomorrow would be the normal thing but it's going to be too late but I you help people think by switching out of yes and into no I don't bother with yes we don't bother with yes I could I could go I could belabor it at length yes his commitment commitment creates anxiety no it's protection protection makes people feel safe and secure and helps them think anxiety interferes with people's thought processes every time you try to get somebody to say yes to something you're creating anxiety because they say to themselves what have I let myself in for what's the catch what's the hook where's this going what are you trying to do to me these are anxiety creating instances which interfere with their ability to make decisions it's not me telling you this this is neuroscience anxiety slows the brain don't take my word for it okay fine so what if no is not enough this is this is this is what this is really what sold the book to the publisher they never seen anything like this before it's in our utter disdain for yes because what's the most famous negotiating book in the world anyway right everybody knows getting to yes right yes it's supposed to be what you want to get people to say yes is not what you want people to say this is what you want them to say after the no now that's kind of disappointing right like that's not special that doesn't make me feel good well yes makes me feel good I love yes I got a bad addiction to yes I'm happy when I hear you that's right it's it's not what it is to you when it comes out of their mouth it's what it is to them that's right is what people say when they think that what they've just heard is the total and complete truth there's two simultaneous things that happen it triggers a subtle Epiphany in people's brains there's a chemical change with Epiphany they feel better they feel smarter they feel clarity Stephen come his advice from way back when seek first to understand then be understood and so we thought okay all we got to do is say to somebody I understand and then you then you get to talk right because they're ready to hear you no it's the changes show understanding first trigger a that's right then and only then are they ready to hear you what whatever your political whatever political side of the aisle you're on I'll give you an example to prove it to you last presidential election the two candidates are on TV engaged in a debate when whichever candidate you loved when you decided to vote for them they said something in debate you thoroughly believed in you didn't look at the TV and say you're right you looked at the TV and you went that's right that's what people say when they're all in they say that's right also I had somebody stop me and say I think it's when the person is telling you they feel empathy from you empathy is this powerful mystical tool empathy is not sympathy empathy is not sympathy I don't know how many times I could say that empathy is not sympathy and it triggers a moment when they feel bonded to you and that's where you've built trust-based influence you know who the greatest practitioners of empathy are on the planet do you guys know social very close social pass why do you think it's a preferred communication approach of sociopaths because they like you because it works because they like to work hard because sociopaths have a great work ethic yeah I want to hire a sociopath they work really hard it's efficient it sticks it lasts it's the most durable form of influence there is social lazy they want to wind you up once and then keep you wound up with a minimal amount of effort all right fine so they like it does it work on them I love this question does empathy work on sociopaths we think here's a sociopath you have a slide back please gap on the right guy at the bottom is American overseas doing stupid stuff he gets grabbed by this guy in his sunglasses in a Black Bandana make no mistake as a murdering raping straight out of the movies bad to the bones sociopath he's a killer he's got the blood on him his hands literally of no shortage of people that he is physically and personally cut their heads off these guys got a method of chopping heads off that they it was shown to me and explained to me they're actually kind of proud of they're so effective at it like a contest how Mo how efficiently can you chop a head off of a human being this guy's done it a bunch of times and a rapist and he finds a woman that he likes he rapes her enough she becomes president pregnant him and his buddies shove it down a hill so she miscarriages so they can keep her these are not nice guys these are the definitions of sociopath they've got this American I am coaching this guy because I was an international negotiation coach is what I really was all I need to do is find somebody that's coachable if you're coachable I don't care what you're faced with I can make you pretty effective because I know how the brain science works by the way is this stuff cross-cultural do you guys know every hostage negotiation team uses the same skills the hostage negotiation team in Tokyo Japan and in Cape Town South Africa both use the same skills wait a minute Japan the Africa you got to be kidding me right what's the commonality they're human so that's the limitation my approach to negotiation only works where humans are involved so our sociopath is Holiness American and there's a 10 million dollar demand but he's not saying it's a ransom he's saying it's for 10 million dollars for 500 years of Oppression for war damages from the Spanish to the Japanese to the American so the atrocities committed by the Americans in the early 1900s under Blackjack Persian and we're not even Filipinos anyway we're a separate independent nation we're morrows and we're currently being oppressed by a public government in Manila it's held up by an American Colonial invader so we're not asking for ransom we're asking for war damages for 500 years of Oppression which actually makes 10 million dollars seems kind of kind of kind of small and I realize right now most of you are tuning this out in your mind because you're saying like I was never in an argument with somebody where they were bringing up stuff from the past it didn't matter all my arguments are logical and rational right so we go back and forth with this guy literally for months and finally I say to my gay we're going to hit the reset button here and this is my my son's referred to this as the birth of the that's right moment because I used to take this for granted I didn't realize the extraordinary power of it I said the next time we get this sociopath on a phone we're going to get him to say that's right and you're going to repeat the entire situation from his perspective especially the bad stuff about us that might be the most critical part of it the bad stuff about you so my guy gets back on the phone with this terrorist and he says you know what you're not asking for ransom for the American but you're asking for war damages for 500 years of Oppression from the Spanish to the Japanese to the Americans the violations the atrocities under Blackjack Persian the Americans in the 1900s and you're not you're not Filipinas you're morals you're separate independent nation been fighting for your freedom for 500 years and you're being impressed currently by a puppet government and the Manila is held up by the by the American Colonial Invaders and it's unjust and it's wrong and he went on and on if you're not and he laid it on thick and I'm here to tell you if you're not laying on thick you're not laying it on thick enough the bad stuff not the good stuff the bad stuff and probably and it didn't seem like it'd take that long but it seemed forever that took my guy to lay this out and it was a moment of silence and a sociopath on the other end of the phone said that's right and it was dead silence for another couple moments and my guy says let's talk again in a couple of days okay hangs up the phone we went from 10 million dollars to zero in that moment the 10 million dollars went off the table never to be mentioned again for the rest of the kidnapping last a couple more months kidnapping took a couple twists and turns finally one day the Americans out in a swamp we have so diffused everything they're doing they're not even watching them anymore they're not angry they don't know that we've diffused them they don't know what sort of an upper hand we have on them they just don't know what's going on the American they're checking on them every three days he's sitting out there in the swamp says I'm leaving and he walks away local pharmacies says You must be Jeffrey Schilling the American he says I am you know how many black guys walk around South of the Philippines right Suzanne they look at their military the military flies down and helicopters picks them up they take them back to Manila they hold this Monumental press conference he's got the president of Philippines on one side Secretary of Defense on the other secretary of defense says we have rescued the American Jeffrey Schilling in a daring military operation give him a ride thank you it was a daring operation at the Newark Airport yesterday where I was rescued he's sitting there he doesn't say anything we fly him out back back to the United States and back in the Philippines about three weeks later on another kidnapping I connect back up with my guy he says you're not going to believe who called me I don't know who called you the terrorist guy named sabaya sobiaco really what do you say have you been promoted yet I don't know what it was he said to me on the phone I was going to kill the American they should promote you he hangs up what's he saying when he made that call terrorist sociopath called to pay his respects call to pay his respects to say I felt respected by you he's also saying I'd talk to you again if we meet again I'd talk to you everybody you deal with regardless of the outcome should feel that solid about the interaction when it's over no matter how the interaction went that they'd still deal with you everybody you deal with and you'd be amazed at the impact it'll have not just on your business but on your personal relationships not everybody in life that matters to you all right remember you don't get in life what's fair you get what you negotiate if you want to become a better negotiator click the link in the description below boy gets kidnapped father's not an American citizen he knows the son is he goes to U.S embassy says my son's an American citizen he's been kidnapped you're supposed to help me they say the FBI is going to be there to help you now I don't know what went through his mind when he was told that the FBI was going to be there to help him I can imagine it was probably something equivalent of 15 minutes later he's going to hear on the front door and these guys will be there they might even have FBI hats on so you know they're FBI agents but instead about 15 minutes later he gets a call from some guy in Washington DC named Chris Voss and he literally says to me on the phone you're in Washington D.C How You Gonna help me how much time do I have before this father hangs up the phone you're me what do you say seriously what would you say gonna get your son back logic lay some reality out to him tell me what happened interesting who thinks tell me what happened is an open-ended question it's command and it's a statement tell me what happened when you run into people in your businesses what's the first thing they say to themselves especially if they're under stress is it any different than what this father said to me do you have any less time and what you need to establish you know how much time you have does anybody know how much time do you have before they either literally or figuratively hang up on you before you're losing the game how much time do you have seven you get seven seconds tick tick tick tell me what happened how much time does that take person under stress can they go okay I'm really glad you asked you know now that you think about it let me go back through this think about it one step at a time how did I get it it all started when I was seven years old I can't answer that question I mean who can under stress seven seconds and what do you have to establish what you have to establish is the same thing I had to establish what what is it trust absolutely trust and confidence exactly right you get two things trust and confidence not confidence competence and you get seven seconds what do you say trust me I'm confident [Applause] if that worked would you need videos to Market your practice probably not trust me I'm from the FBI and I'm here to help you how do I know how to do this because I did it wrong in the past the first time I was in the Philippines on a case and I'm going to touch on it before we get done here this morning it walked me into a room that the the heads of the government are all there from the Philippines I'm there at the express personal invitation of the American ambassador the head of the API Manila has gone to the Ambassador and given him my name and said we need this guy and we have to officially invite him to come and help him we need to walk him into this room where everybody except the president of the Philippines is going to be the secretary of defense is going to be there the head of the police is going to be there police in the Philippines is a national police force so the head of the police is the equivalent of a cabinet level position and at the time the president's two closest personal advisors were the Secretary of Defense and the head of the police the only reason the president of the Philippines wasn't in the rooms because then his personal confidential advisor was and in summon substance they said to me how are you going to help us and I took this is the opportunity to lay out my resume FBI agent so many years joined terrorist task force New York City one of the Attorney General's award one of the FBI agents Association award for distinguishing exemplary service not only teach from the book at Quantico now I've I wrote the book we teach from not only trained by the FBI but trained by Scotland Yard as well laid out my extensive credentials and I could tell you they were suitably unimpressed they may as well have yawned in my face why is that you guys know why if your credentials showed that you knew what you were doing you would never hire the wrong person in your firm and you would never fail would you your credentials correlate Loosely with whether or not you know what you're doing loosely what I say to this father simple here's what I said right Haitian kidnappers are not killing each kidnap victims these days I realize that's really stupid because they kill each other at the drop of a hat but they're not killing kidnap victims today is Thursday and Haitian kidnappers love to party on Saturday night if you do say the things I want you to say when I want you to say them we're going to have your son out late Friday or early Saturday morning he said tell me what you want me to do and we had a son out Saturday morning so let's break down a little bit of what I did do and also more importantly what I didn't do by the way through the course of the kidnapping the father never asked me how many kidnappings I'd worked he never asked me how long I'd been an FBI agent he never asked me how long I've been a hostage negotiator he never asked me if I spoke French or Creole the languages he never asked me how many times I'd been to Haiti you guys may have asked yourself this guy's a lead International kidnapping negotiator he's negotiated all over the world how many languages does this guy speak by now the answer to that is abundantly cleared barely one how many times I've been to Haiti you guys know how many times I've been to Haiti I've never been dead never asked me that none of those typical confidence indicators ever came up as soon as I told him what he was looking at here's what you're looking at and then they offered him the slightest bit of insight into how to navigate that and he said tell me what you want me to do I will also ask you to compare how long it took me to say that with how long it took me to lay out my resume which was shorter most communication hacks most ways to shortcut this the actual process and make it last less time seem really indirect and save time seems like a going in another Direction and it ends up shortcutting the process significantly what business you're in I think you guys are in the trust business well business was a hostage negotiator in I was in the trust business but take the word trust out and drop in the word predictability and then things begin to change because as soon as you begin to make things more predictable and understandable now you begin to help them in huge ways your clients buyers and sellers match almost exactly the psychological profile reactions of the family members of a kidnapped hostage somebody's family member gets kidnapped their child gets kidnapped and their hopes and dreams for the future of Ben Haas taken hostage have been hijacked when your home is for sale or you're trying to buy a home these are hopes and dreams for the future very same profile you can Google the most stressful events in people's lives and buying or selling a home especially selling a home is very high on that hit parade and the other interesting thing about this is the very same as a kidnapping is when a kidnapping starts the family doesn't know when it's going to be over even though I know I can guess within if I know the profile of the case and I know the country that it's in I can guess within either a week or a month as to how long it's going to take I know but they don't know they haven't been through this before one of the definitions of traumatic stress is that it's unrelenting they don't know when it'll be over your clients your buyers and sellers they don't know when this is going to go away they don't know when it's going to be over and that is overwhelming for people that's why they call it traumatic stress in the kidnapping business we find out that the families of kidnapped victims suffer traumatic stress at the same rates as the victims because they didn't know when it was going to be over so that being said what are some little things that you can do to make it easier when with these guidelines that I'm going to share with you and I heard some of them talked about yesterday word for word by some of your top Professionals in a room we didn't have one single family go off track go in the wrong direction not follow our guidance when we followed some of these simple things one of the things that I told that father when I spoke to him on the phone since he doesn't know how long the kidnapping is going to last for sure even though I've already given him a time frame and I know as soon as I hang up the phone with him that the fear is going to come rushing back in if he doesn't know the next time I'm going to call him it's overwhelming but I tell him I'm going to call you back in an hour every time that I spoke to him on the phone I said you'll have me back on the phone in an hour the father if he doesn't know how many days it's going to be he's going to be scared to death but if he knows he's only going to last for an hour he can hang in there for an hour I heard super mom yesterday talking about calling her clients three times a week no matter what that's phenomenal advice because if you've got a client that doesn't know when it's going to go through they're sitting there waiting for the phone to ring not knowing when it's going to ring the unknown is a huge stressor here's how bad of a stressor the unknown is before I became a hostage negotiator I was a member of FBI SWAT and I tried out for the bureau's version of the Navy Seals and the FBI has something called the hostage rescue team and when I tried out for them their maximum psychological stressor for us to try to get us to break was simply the unknown they take us for a run and we'd want to know how far we were going to go so we know how fast to run if I know I'm going to run for an hour if I'm going to run for five miles I know how fast to run and they take us for a run and they just say start running we're done when we're done now every single time they took us for a run it was for about 45 minutes but they take you out on a run and if you know you're going to go 45 minutes I can run seven minute miles if you run a lot you know exactly how fast you run you can pace yourself if you don't know it's supposed to stretch out especially if they're trying to run you into the ground they're unknown if that's the maximum stressor for Special Forces around the planet imagine what the unknown as a stressor for your clients is and imagine how far you can go instantly if they know they're going to hear from you three times a week no matter what you have just now stepped up your game in terms of being in the trust business because you're adding predictability to it they trust you more they give you more latitude the other thing I love that I heard the super mom said yesterday too which we did and I had to learn this the hard way when we're in the midst of a kidnapping that we know is going to last months weeks and many of them did some of them last years I would coach all of my negotiators if you got nothing to tell the family call them up and tell them you got nothing bring them on the phone they know they're going to hear from you every couple days call them on the phone and say look I just want you to know there's nothing new families would love that I learned that the hard way because there was a Department of State Citizen Services guy who's doing far better with the families than we were on the international kidnappings and I finally said you know they love you what are you doing because I call them every couple days and if I got nothing new I tell them I got nothing new they love it because it adds predictability and stability and they can now they can cope with the uncertainty super mom yesterday said you know what if I got if I got no showings if I got nobody's coming to see the house I call them and I and I say look nobody's been in to see the house and your gut instinct is going to be oh it's going to make me look stupid it's going to make me look like I'm not doing anything that is not what it does it makes you look like you're watching out for them it helps and in a way that they don't even understand you're now helping to mitigate that stress for them now the other thing this is also which was I really wanted you to get the distinction in this this is not calling them on the phone and saying how you doing how you doing it's not calling on the phone saying how are you and I can remember one time one of my negotiators in the Cincinnati division we had a sister in the Cincinnati area and I heard about this this young lady this woman the entire time because everybody was scared of her when I finally met her in person I was blown away because she was this buoyant positive upbeat kind of like young pixie woman and I was like this is a girl that everybody's scared of because she she did she didn't take nonsense she was a no-nonsense kind of person so my negotiator says you know I'm call I'm tired of calling her on the phone and asking her how she's doing and having her bite my head off and I and I said to him are you kidding me how do you not know how she's doing her sister's being held hostage by terrorists how are you doing it's a silly question I told you to call her and tell her you got nothing new it'll take you three seconds but he felt that made him look stupid he's supposed to be FBI he's supposed to have all the answers you know we got computers we got satellites I can't call them and tell them there's nothing new believe me the distance that that will go to help people relax while their child their home their hopes and dreams for the future is on the line in your hands touch base with them regularly and just give them simple updates and you'll be amazed at how far it will go and don't don't start by saying how you doing summaries just periodically covering the main points his story his feelings in your words when do you use the summary at the beginning of the conversation and at the end I recommend you starting off your conversation with a summary of what brought you to the table what brought you to the phone why are we having this conversation what's your understanding and circumstances that led up to this discussion depending on the circumstances depending on the relationship it could be a a very long summary it could be a short summary so at the beginning before your accusations I'll just drop that summary in at the conclusion whether or not you've made or come to a resolution or not you want to sum up the conversation as best as you would call it both of those time or anytime um you're using a summary it should be it should be concluded with what have I missed give them an opportunity to correct you give them an opportunity to fill in something that you may have missed because if they bring it up you know that of uber importance to them and it's another demonstration of your willingness to defer what have I missed before you draw your Line in the Sand before you get assertive with the people that you're dealing with hit them with a summary when you need to have a point clarify hit them with the summary [Music] before you make a counteroffer summarize the conversation to that point [Music] if and going back to clarification especially valuable if you're talking for an extended period it is wholly appropriate for you to stop the conversation and say hey we've been at this for about 45 minutes now are you against me summarizing what we've talked about to this point wholly appropriate for you to put the brakes on the conversation at that point how do you get to that level that you're able to summarize their thoughts and feelings so well that they immediately lock in with you bye simply listening you heard me say it before the cheapest and most effective concession that you can make to another person is to listen it is the most powerful it is the most underutilized tool in your toolbox forget the Black Swan method for a second listening by itself increases your ability to influence other people Jack Welch author of Jack and winning alongside us with his wife Susie they're coming through Los Angeles a couple of years ago they're they're hustling their book the real life MBA I go to the book signing Jack Waltz is at I want to come speak the negotiation course I'm teaching at the time at USC how many people try to get Jack Welch to say yes to something at that book signing pretty much every one of them right they're going to come up there Jack how are you yeah my kid makes my wife makes a great meal if you want to come to the house tonight God knows what they're going to ask you Jack I got this invention would you pose with it how many people are going to ask him to try to say yes that day that week how many people try to get Jack Welch to say yes or something you're me you come up to Jack Welch what do you say and how much time do you have you maybe got seven seconds and even if you get to the second response after him there's 300 people standing behind you in line they walk you up there before you get to them they say what's your name Chris right on a piece of paper so Jack doesn't get it wrong really that's so you don't so you don't talk to him and then you keep moving on top of that have they patted me down do they know whether or not I've got a gun if I've been through a metal detector as a matter of fact I do have a gun but he's not in trouble for me they don't have my identification they don't know I'm not going to hurt them I'm going to get within arm's length of Jack Welch action is quicker than reaction they can't stop me from doing anything I want to do this is this is the Dilemma of bodyguards you get within arm's length as a Target you can only stop them after they've done you can grab them after they've killed your target but you can't stop them I'm going to give with an arm's length of Jack Welch I could do whatever I want I could walk up to him I kiss him right on the lips if I want to right he was falling asleep I want to make sure you wake up he's going to wake up screaming in the middle of the night time I walk up to Jack Welch and this is what I say to him is it a ridiculous idea for you to come and speak at the negotiation course that I teach at USC he looks up and to the left because this really intense Scholars and he just freezes and I think to myself I just killed Jack watch [Applause] he had a stroke he's so Furious and he's gonna die and the security is going to tackle me and drag me on cuffs I would say but I'm an FBI agent we don't care you kill Jack Welch so initially when he doesn't die I'm relieved but he still doesn't move finally unfreezes he looks at me and he says this is my personal assistant's name this is special Twitter account we have set up to communicate with her I will call her and tell her who you are and what you want I think we're going to be in Los Angeles in the fall if we are we'll come in and speak at your class calibrated no is worth at least five yeses what is tactical empathy so tactical empathy is applying emotional intelligence in a very calibrated way that's why we say tactical empathy if you think about the word tactical it essentially means that you're aiming at something uh beyond the immediate action okay so beyond the label that you're using beyond the mirror that you're using you're aiming for um tactical empathy in the long run which is going to help you achieve that trust-based influence so when you're talking about what it is about tactical empathy that that makes it important it's essentially recognizing the perspective of the person across the table from you and actually vocalizing that perspective so it's not enough just to recognize what the other side is seeing it is important for you to actually vocalize it because you're not demonstrating the actual empathy until after you've vocalized it so if you think about a lot of people say um your gut instinct or some people talk about you know that little voice in the back of your head or when you're walking down the street and you feel the little hairs on the back of your neck kind of go up a little bit if you pay attention to those things those are where you're going to reach your intuition okay um you have to learn how to trust your gut in otherwise in other words to use this stuff you use these skills you have to have a little bit of trust in yourself to kind of allow yourself to recognize what's going on with the other side you can't be afraid of it now the reason trusting your influence your intuition is why can I not talk today let me take another sip of coffee real quick let's see what we got going on here hmm my words are just trying not to come out right the reason it is so important to learn how to trust your intuition is because your conscious mind processes 40 bits of information per second your unconscious mind processes 20 million bits of information per second so there's a big disparity in that number 40 bits of information not really that much when you're talking about how many things your unconscious mind is picking up each second you get a lot of information if you learn how to trust that okay all right so a lot of people say well what's the difference isn't empathy the same as sympathy no they're not the same okay sympathy is when you're feeling what the other side is feeling that's not what we're doing with empathy empathy is basically seeing the world through their eyes and then understanding it so well that you could summarize it for them so I want you to remember as we go through here it's not about being nice it doesn't mean you agree with that other person and it doesn't mean that you necessarily even like them because if you think about the world that Troy and Barbara and I come from we didn't like the people that we were dealing with okay they're usually bad people so there was no there was no love there with those people so it's not that you have to feel any kind of positive way toward the person that you're dealing with you just have to be able to demonstrate an understanding of what's going on in their mind and then be able to kind of vocalize it and summarize it for them subscribe to the Black Swan groups negotiation newsletter which is free doesn't cost you anything I had a colleague of the FBI that used to like to say if it's free I'll take three here's how you subscribe to the edge if you're in the United States send the text to the number is 33 triple seven that's three three seven seven the text message that you send is Black Swan method Black Swan method 233 triple seven comes to your email inbox on Tuesday mornings when you're ready to rock and roll and get after the week

Channel: NegotiationMastery

Views: 30,358

Keywords: tactical empathy, chris voss, never split the difference, relationship advice tiktok, relationship advice, conversation skills, negotiation skills, marriage, self help, tim ross podcast, dating advice, communication skills relationships, how to communicate in a relationship, psychology, black swan group, getting to yes, negotiation strategies and tactics, emotional intelligence book, real estate, value proposition and customer segments, personal development

Id: 58c2synRlFE

Length: 71min 0sec (4260 seconds)

Published: Thu May 25 2023