The Unlikely Romance of a Black Nurse and a German P.O.W. in World War II

so here's a question which of the Allied countries in World War two in desperate need of nurses turned away thousands of qualified patriotic volunteers simply because of their race [Music] society at large didn't want to see black women in uniform so a very small number actually served and Eleanor Powell was one of them like many black nurses in World War two instead of tending to the wounds of their countrymen they were assigned to care for German prisoners of war being held in the United States the army theorized German soldiers who had been fighting on behalf of a racist regime would not become attracted to women of color apparently Frederick Albert missed the memo he said he saw her and she walked in and it's like he was under a spell Frederick and Eleanor became enemies in love I think it was youthful rebellion I think they also were madly in love and but they were they were taking major risk me here you are have an American nurse in the Army and he's in Hitler's army so we are enemies at war so she could have been court-martialed had their romance been discovered but now their story has been discovered by journalist Alexis Clark who spent years documenting this incredible story of courage in a time of war and marriage in a time of hate it's a collision of Jim Crow and Nazism even though we're at war these are two countries that have racialized laws so they both were committing crimes so you really think about wow they just they erased all of that and so I think yes it was there they're young they're rebellious but they also hated what their countries were putting forth and selling this racism because that's that's not what we're in their hearts either enemies in love in this edition of Maryville talks books one on one with Alexis Clark presented by Maryville University and left-bank books and media sponsors st. Louis public radio 90.7 kW mu and HEC [Music] well we are at the Goldfarb School of Nursing for our interview today which seems an appropriate place for our story and it's also an appropriate time because this year marks the 70th anniversary of President Harry Truman's moved to desegregate the Armed Forces and that's certainly something that plays into our story as well Alexis Clark welcome to st. Louis thanks for doing this thank you for having me well the book is terrific it was a really good interesting and fun fast read and a lot of stuff in there I didn't didn't know anything about there's a lot to unpack here but I just want to start right from the beginning with the subtitle enemies and love a German POWs black nurse and an unlikely romance I think you're underselling it unlikely how about unbelievable right right this is this is incredible a story of a an african-american nurse in the 1940s World War two and a German POWs and they became a couple amazing how did you first hear about this story well so I am very interested in World War two history but actually I was having just a casual conversation with my mom over dinner and I discovered I was a distant relative of Colonel Charles young and he was the highest-ranking african-american in the military until his death in 1922 so I just got the bug I should started reading about blacks in the military so I stumble across this book called GI nightingales and it was all about the Army Nurse Corps in World War two and there was a brief chapter on black women who served and I didn't know that I knew about the wax but I didn't know they were in the Army Nurse Corps and apparently this author sent out a questionnaire to black nurses Eleanor Powell the nurse in my book responded and included just a little tip but it was one sentence it said the war offers fond memories for Eleanor who met and later married a German prisoner of war in Arizona so it's like timeout what exactly exactly so I contacted the author I'm like what happened how do i how do I contact her she's like I never met her she just was an interesting factoid so I I just knew I had to unpack that history well you didn't have much to go on to begin with I didn't but Eleanor has unique spelling of her name and then she also included where she was from and I knew her age and I could get the roster of black nurses in the war so that as a journalist I had the papers and some documents and I just started digging there are so many different stories that kind of veer off of this but starting with with Eleanor she was an exceptional person and in an exceptional position I think for her time because she was living up north in you know relatively they were up late upwardly mobile after an American family which was very uncommon it's funny she was from Milton Massachusetts which was a very progressive suburb outside of Boston and Boston as we know has had some volatile racial history but in this Conclave she grew up with white friends went to white schools her parents did very well so she was largely shielded from discrimination growing up until she got into the United States Army no she decided to serve her country that's when she was confronted with Jim Crow that must have just shocked her it was very difficult it was hurtful and humiliating she had a tough time throughout the Army experience and Jim Crow in Arizona we don't normally think of Arizona when we think of that sort of thing I know and it was pervasive in the south the Southwest on the west coast [Music] so it's not just the deep south that had segregated facilities they were actually throughout the United States [Music] talk about Frederick a little bit so Frederick was born in Germany but mostly raised in Vienna and he was from a very wealthy family and his father served in the Great War and they were German nationalists they were believers in Hitler Frederick on the other hand was conscripted he was not a military guy he was not a follower of Hitler he was actually more of a Renaissance man painter he loved to cook he loved to be outside but he had to be in the army or the face the consequences so that's what that's what happened how did they meet it's a great story really so apparently Frederick his assignment was to work in the mess hall because he was a great cook and excellent Baker and this is what he shared with his children and his and other family members he said he saw her when she walked in and it's like he was under a spell and then some flirtation started to develop did they have any hesitation about developing this romance from the point of view from a couple of points of view really one I suppose it could be treasonous if somebody found out absolutely and also that eventually the war would end and he would be gone I think it was youthful rebellion I think they also were madly in love and but they were they were taking major risks I mean here you are have an American nurse in the Army and he's in Hitler's army so we are enemies at war so she could have been court-martialed had their romance been discovered and also it's a collision of Jim Crow and Nazism even though we're at war these are two countries that have racialized laws so they both were committing crimes so you really think about wow they just they erased all of that and so I think yes it was they're they're young they're rebellious but they also hated what their countries putting forth and selling this racism because that's that's not what we're in their hearts either and there probably weren't too many people who had the same experiences background attitudes in the army the fact that they would find each other it's pretty amazing I think so too because they really weren't so ever supposed to be with each other when you think about that time period well really it's called heaven it's called enemies in love but they weren't on that level enemies at all it seems like the enemies were their own country men anyway I agree I agree yeah that's an excellent point sure a German pow2 is not just a question of being prejudiced I mean you know the Aryan master race theory they were killing right well that's what was so shocking about this assignment to put black women in direct contact with German prisoners of war and what I learned and this was actually from Eleanor in this previous book the commanding officer approached her unit and said we're shipping you to a German POWs because they were concerned with all the fraternization that was taking place between the white nurses and the German POWs so they said okay we'll send in these black nurses and then there won't be any problems and so that became an overwhelming assignment for black nurses throughout World War two they were either taking care of German prisoners or at segregated basis where there were black soldiers at one point there's even a nursing shortage and the army won't wait ooh and that's and that just shows you how entrenched discrimination and racism was then so there was an ongoing no nursing shortage throughout World War two and then when you had so many returning American men wounded there was a threat of a nursing draft even in January of 1945 FDR in his State of the Union says that there might be a nursing draft we don't get any more volunteers meanwhile thousands of black nurses on record there were 9,000 who had applied and their applications were denied and they had comparable cajuste credentials but this is just where we were aware the American military and I society at large didn't want to see black women in uniform so a very small number actually served and that's that's another big tragedy there was always a need for hope and many nurses long before World War two tried to be admitted into the Army Nurse Corps so their their desire to be a part of the Armed Forces and to be patriotic and serve their country started long before World War two is just always an uphill battle but thanks to civil rights groups thanks to the Black Press I mean thanks to some public outrage they would always kind of like climb the tree with fingernails but they got there eventually but they were subjected to a horrible quota during World War two and that's why their numbers were so low we know that eleanor was treated poorly by the people in that area what about Frederick Howard the POWs treated well that was another part of the history that was shocking to me so in a lot of the cases they were treated very well actually compared to blacks in uniforms they were treated better I am covered in some of my archival research particularly in the n-double a-c-p there are many letters by black soldiers and black nurses and there's this one particular troubling anecdote it was in Texas and it was at a train depot and the black soldiers couldn't go into the dining room but the German POWs in there American guards went right into the dining room sat down ate had their cigarettes and the black soldiers in a US military uniform had their faces pressed at the glass because it was whites only so the war ends and they inevitably are going to be split up when they send Frederick back to Germany how did they decide to stay back together the big secret well again we're talking about some very young headstrong people so believe it or not they figured okay the best way the smartest way for Frederick to return the United States is if they conceived a child and they did that's exactly what they did and you really think about that because wow that meant she was going to be a single mother with impregnated by a German soldier who then has to leave because all the POWs were deported I mean that was just part of the law so she was going to have to return home unwed and pregnant but they believed in their love and she was willing to risk that and that's exactly what happened and he was able to return a year later and they married in June 1947 20 years between before the Loving v Virginia decision where did they marry in New York the courthouse in New York about the only place probably because they're still there were quite a number of states where was still against the law for blacks and whites to marry but in New York that wasn't the case which is why they chose it they moved to Boston but they struggled getting housing no one wanted to give them a lease he struggled finding employment I'm just taking odd jobs and so they knew something was gonna they'd have to make a decision they couldn't live like this and they decided to move to Germany since he was groomed to take over his father's lucrative business that didn't work out so great either No can you imagine I could go wrong right I mean that they were seen in particularly Eleanor's I think you make the point in the book almost like an animal in the zoo curiosity people were pointing at her gawking at her even some were yelling racial slurs there's this one moment where she was just walking on a very common Street and this man drops his groceries he's just like his vegetables roll down the street like he's seeing a ghost he can't believe it because it was so unheard of to have african-americans in some of these German towns and that's where they they moved to a smaller university town so that didn't go well and she also had a she wasn't welcomed by his parents yes she had the the mother-in-law from hell exactly exactly yeah that was a very difficult year and a half that they were in Germany so they came back to the United States that's what they did so they would move that's the way they they made it so things got bad they would just pick up and moved so they started off in the suburbs of Philadelphia that didn't work out too much they had to move again they couldn't enroll their son in the school of their choice because he was black but then Frederick takes off and goes to baking school which is ends up being a blessing because they keep moving but after he finishes he gets a job with pepperidge farm in Connecticut and that's when they start seeing some more stable a more stable lifestyle they had a family but in addition to the one son their their other job now they're two now they have two sons I'm wondering in the midst of all this I don't want to sound like Spencer Tracy at the end of guess who's coming to dinner but did they give any thought to you know what this was going to be like for their children they had a hard enough time as it was surprisingly no they and that's that's some criticism that Chris and Stephen those are their sons and even their other relatives they just thought that they were so naive and so they didn't even talk about being a mixed-race couple it wasn't a thing it's almost like they were trying to raise themselves and their whole family in this colorblind bubble so they didn't address civil rights they just moved when things didn't work out and they found out that they weren't welcomed in an environment they left they didn't really they didn't really stick around and fight and later on in life that that did that was a problem for their kids who had some identity issues in their teen years and when you talk about a bubble they actually if there was a bubble out there somewhere they found it they did they did they found actually the perfect place just an hour north of New York City in Norwalk Connecticut it's called village Creek and even in their covenants they advertised itself as a prejudiced free zone and so they welcomed mixed-race couples artists gays Jewish families groups that had been discriminated against and they found this paradise and they settled there and lived there until they passed away how did you research this because most of obviously the two main characters were no longer with us was it just talking to family were there records in place I spoke to the experts and then I spoke to relatives I spoke to neighbors and then I would do that over the course of a few years now the sons did did you speak to both or only just one I met both of course but there was really one that I had to rely on because the older son Steven didn't want to be a part of the research it's too painful for him surprisingly I mean even he's in his 70s now but he remembers everything and and and the painful memories and he just didn't want to go there I tried so hard to convince him but it didn't work so I just had to rely on Chris who was great what's the reaction been to the book I imagined people are as surprised as you were about just this whole story yes I mean it's been great they're surprised they're fascinated they're intrigued I mean this is uncovering a lot of history that they didn't know about as well so that was the goal of this book and they're also completely in love with Eleanor and Frederick because their story is so unusual what was the reaction of the family Chris liked it I was so that was like the first thing that's this the son the younger son I was so nervous because it can't be easy to have some outsider write about your family particularly your parents marriage because I do get pretty personal in the book but he said he was in all of the research and that he liked it and I was just so relieved by that even having the family members to speak to where there are a lot of questions in your mind that were still unanswered about this that you couldn't find an answer for but you tried well sure and Eleanor and Frederick were of a generation that really didn't share a lot of their painful moments with their children I think we're a lot more open now so there were questions that I thought would have been obvious I mean Chris didn't talk about Hitler with his father I'm thinking to myself how did you guys not talk about it but they left painful memories and put them in the past and that's how they they I guess survived really so I had tons of questions but it's just not there you know and I wanted to write a completely non fiction book so I didn't want to take liberties of how I thought they would have responded you started this book a number of years ago it took a long time to to research obviously that said do you think that the fact that it's coming out now in the times we seem to find ourself in makes it even more important for people to read this I think so I mean there is something painfully current about this book well we already know there's a rise of neo-nazis I mean that's going on you wouldn't really think that I mean Nazis would be kind of like a current subject but it is right here in the United States so that's unfortunate I think mixed-race couples I we have evolved but you still have reactions and a population of people who don't approve of that and I love that this story shows that more than 70 years ago there are people in this world who are like no I'm not going to decide who I'm going to spend the rest of my life with just based on skin color but that's still racism is still an issue so there are themes in this book that we're still grappling with today what do you hope people take away from it well first of all I hope that they appreciate the history I heard they are inspired by the story of these courageous black nurses and then I also hope that they are inspired by Eleanor and Frederick's courage I think that there are several themes in this book they're brave their courageous their honorable and even though they move a lot there are some moments where she in this in this one point where she does talk about discrimination so I think they're there she's forthcoming in some of her confrontation so that's important I think people have to speak up really because if you don't speak up it's like your silence is is to me a sign of approval you are among other things a journalism teacher yes you've been at this a long time writing for some very fine magazines so you know your craft very well but I'm wondering having gone through this experience if you learn some things that you now pass along to your students as a result of having worked on this book sure sure I mean and I stumbled along and made mistakes but I think that the biggest thing is to talk to as many people as possible and always go back to your sources I mean I can't tell you how many times I would speak to someone and I just knew to check in and a couple of weeks or a couple of months because they would have remembered something just like oh I forgot to tell you blah blah blah and that's it just really really stay on top of your sources that's important I noticed on your Twitter feed you call yourself an opinionated southern belle I believe as a journalist of course you're not supposed to insert your opinion into a story was that difficult for you in doing this book or did you allow yourself some room to do that I tried to really allow this Eleanor in Frederick and just gather the information as much as I could I think I was a objective with it but at the same time I have no problem saying that I'm against racism so there are certain times where you know I think being opinionated is good I think would be a beautiful compelling story on screen that is my goal and I hope that happens soon have you already got a cast in your mind that's a fun question I have some favorites I do but I'm open so I was thinking first for Eleanor I like Kerry Washington I also like the actress condole or shot if you watch billion she's great she's also fantastic Broadway actress and I was thinking for Fredrik Michael Fassbender but I mean the only that the tricky part is it's funny Eleanor was 23 and Frederick was 19 when they met they were so young you know and it's like I think about what they endured I automatically put them as older especially when you're when you think about gosh he was in the battlefield at 19 you know but I think those actors even though they're older they work [Music] you think if they would have met somehow later in life older they would have gone ahead and gotten together or was this sort of a I know a moment of youth I think youth was on their side for sure and not that you're young that you're not thoughtful but I do think there is something just there is more wisdom and more fear as you get older you know what this world can be like so I think it helped them that they hadn't experienced that much of life yet well the book is enemies in love and it's terrific and Alexis Clark thanks very much for being with us thank you so much for having me a profound feeling overcame Frederick when he spotted a beautiful tall black woman incapable of concentrating on his kitchen duties Frederic bypassed the powa ters and walk right up to Eleanor he looked her in the eyes smiled and said with the German accent you should know my name I'm the man who is going to marry you [Music] [Music] you [Music]

Channel: HEC Books

Views: 2,543,246

Rating: 4.9249673 out of 5

Keywords: Alexis Clark, Enemies in Love, Schankman, Maryville Talks Books, Goldfarb School of Nursing

Id: Jyyg2OPMTvg

Length: 25min 58sec (1558 seconds)

Published: Fri Aug 17 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/tmsdave]

I'd be more impressed if she was a black Jewish nurse.