Please be seated. Hello, Your Honor. Hello! This is the case of<i>
White Talbert v. Loving.</i> Thank you, Jerome.
Good day, everyone. AUDIENCE: Good day. Mr. White. You have summoned
Ms. Loving to court, to prove you did not father
her five month old
daughter, Loyal. Yes. JUDGE LAKE: You brought
a witness to court today who believes he is
the baby's father. Correct. Ms. Loving, you admit that
Mr. White wasn't your only
sexual relationship but say you can prove
he is Loyal's biological
father, is that correct? Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: So,
Mr. White, explain
to me your relationship with Ms. Loving. I mean, Your Honor,
we never did have
a relationship. For four years
I've known Teana. We were good friends,
but we were never in
a relationship, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: But you had
a sexual relationship. Yes, ma'am. Going on dates, MR. WHITE: Correct. Meeting his mom, calling
his mom, "Mom". MR. WHITE: Correct. Correct. You're calling my mom, "Mom". I mean, I took you
to a family reunion... MR. WHITE: Correct. But I'm not your girlfriend. MR. WHITE: Correct. That's it. We had
an understanding... MS. LOVING: What is that? It was... What did you
call it, though...
It wasn't no relationship. Okay, so Mr. White, you're
doing all that but she's
not your girlfriend? Correct. Correct. But clearly, you were
in a sexual relationship. MR. WHITE: Correct. Were you using protection? MS. LOVING: No! No, ma'am. JUDGE LAKE: So, you're
sleeping with a girl, with no protection,
but not your girlfriend. Correct. JUDGE LAKE: Okay. Wow. Correct. So, take me to this point, where you realize
she's pregnant.
How do you find out? If I can recall,
I was at work,
Your Honor, and she had, uh... She had told me
she was pregnant. And so, when I got
off work, I went over there. And at the end of the day,
you know what I'm saying. I'm asking if I'm the only
possibility, she's like,
"Yeah." I did say yes.
I said yes. MR. WHITE: Correct. Correct, Your Honor.
She said yes. So, she says you're the
only possible father? Yes. JUDGE LAKE: Do you believe
that when she says it? No, ma'am,
I didn't believe that. But I'm still trying
to give her the
benefit of doubt, 'cause we're good
friends, Your Honor. You know what I'm saying,
at the end of the day I'm gonna be there
'cause I know I had
unprotected sex. But you wasn't there.
You wasn't there, though! As a friend... As a friend
you still wasn't there. Correct, Teana. JUDGE LAKE: What reason would
you have not to believe her. 'Cause we already had a talk,
this was a one-time thing. We just started back talking,
when I doubled back.
You know what I'm saying. MR. WHITE:
We just started back... This wasn't a one-time thing.
Prior to that we were still... We were still
around each other. Okay... Were we
hanging every day? No, it wasn't every day... We took a break. We didn't
see each other for years. Okay, you right but
we were still in contact.
We were still chilling. That's correct. MS. LOVING: Okay. So, throughout the entire
pregnancy, Ms. Loving, you told Mr. White that he
was the only possible father? Not throughout the
whole pregnancy. You didn't. When did
you tell him otherwise. I told him on Facebook
in August, there was
a 50-50 chance. Your Honor, I never,
never knew, there
was a 50-50 chance. Yes, you did 'cause when you
came to the hospital where I showed you
the message. Whoa, whoa! He came to the hospital
when Loyal was born. Listen... I showed him the message,
there was a 50-50 chance. Correct, correct. Your Honor, why tell one man
there's a 50-50 chance
and not tell the other? I'mma tell both. Your Honor, listen... I wanna understand this.
Take me to the day,
she gave birth. MR. WHITE: The day
she gave birth, Your Honor... You went to the hospital. I went up there. Before
I went up there, I got
a DNA test, Your Honor. Left the DNA
test in the car. 'Cause I ain't wanna bring it
up because I didn't know
who's up there. You feel what I'm saying?
I ain't wanna be rude... That was rude, anyways,
for you even to do that. That was inconsiderate.
I just had birth. How can it be rude when you
don't know who your
baby daddy is? Okay, I told you... I gotta know... It was a 50-50 chance. I gotta know. It was a 50-50 chance. Well, I gotta know. But why... Why
when I had birth? (AUDIENCE CLAPPING) 'Cause I'd be taking
care of another man's baby. But I didn't pin it on
you, though. I never
pinned it on you. I don't want you to
take care of my baby. Let's get some order.
Let's get some order! You see that? JUDGE LAKE: <i> I need
you all to talk one at a time.</i> I wanna understand
your testimony. You're saying,
Mr. White, that you bought a DNA test and
had it in your car... MR. WHITE: Correct. You brought it up to the
hospital, the day
Loyal was born because you wanted
to know on that day... Correct. Whether this child was yours. MR. WHITE:
Hey, I... I don't... Ms. Brenda like, "Damn,
Will, you look different." If you know what I'm saying?
"What you mean, Ms. Brenda
I look different?" She's like, "You just
look different." I say,
"Why you saying that? "I need to take of the
glasses?" She's like,
"No it's not the glasses." I say, "Why're you saying that
'cause the baby don't
look like me?" She was like,
"It damn sure don't." So, they're examining you... MR. WHITE: Yeah, correct. But did you bring the
DNA test into the room? No, ma'am, I did not. I wanted
to do it but I didn't do it.
If you know what I'm saying. I just wanted to have
respect. I didn't know
who was in the room. Teana just passed me the baby.
So, I'm looking at the baby.
You know what I'm saying? Looking at the baby, trying
to see what's going on. And when you looked at the
baby, did you feel like
it was your child? No, ma'am. She beautiful,
though. But no, ma'am,
I didn't. Okay, so then did you
ever ask Ms. Loving "I wanna do this DNA test,
I have it in the car." MR. WHITE: I said "I got
a DNA test in the car, y'all
still want me to go get it?" Ms. Brenda was like "Yeah."
I don't hear Teana say
anything so I repeat it. "You still want me
to get the test?" MR. WHITE: She said... No, I said "No." I said, "Why not?" She said
"'Cause home tests don't
work or whatever." So... Oh, my God. No, I didn't. No, you did. Well, I didn't want to do a
DNA test 'cause I just had a
baby, bro. What you mean? MR. WHITE: What that mean? I just pushed out
a six pound baby... MR. WHITE: And who
your baby daddy? Let's calm down,
let's calm down. Let's calm down. She yelling,
I'mma work this out. JUDGE LAKE: So, you never
had a chance to perform the home DNA test you
brought to the hospital? No, ma'am. When you left the
hospital that day you did not know
for certain if you were
the child's father? MR. WHITE: No,
ma'am. I did not. I'm like "Why you didn't
tell me it's a 50-50 chance?" She was like,
"I did tell you that.
I did tell you that." I'm like, "Teana, why you
didn't tell me that?
You never told me that." MR. WHITE: She was like,
"I told you on Facebook." I'm like, "On Facebook?"
I look, no messages
on Facebook. We didn't have each
other's numbers, so
how can I call you? MR. WHITE: We don't
have each other's numbers,
Your Honor. She sent you a
Facebook message. Sent him a message saying,
there was a 50-50 chance
between him and another guy. Your Honor, I never
knew about the other fella. MS. BRENDA: That's not true. Why is it that you picked
that moment to tell him
it was a 50-50... 'Cause I had two different
conception dates, Your Honor. I wanna hear
from your witness.
Ma'am, please stand and step up to the podium. You are Ms. Loving's mother. BRENDA: Yes. Okay, ma'am... What is your understanding? Well, my understanding...
I always believed that Mr. White was
my granddaughter's father. BRENDA: Um, I know,
Mr. White and my daughter... I believe, they were
in a relationship 'cause they were
always together. He was at my house or
she was at his house. You know, me and his mother,
we talk all the time. He call me "Mom". She call
his mother, "Mom", you know. Correct. BRENDA: One thing about
Mr. White, you know, very respectful young man.
You know, I love him. He used to get on my
daughter about
the way she talk to me. And I just looked at him
like he's a wonderful man. So, that's why I
believed Mr. White was my granddaughter's father. All right, Ms. Loving,
you got a conception date. MS. LOVING: Yes... During your first appointment? MS. LOVING: Yes. I went to a recovery
center, when I found
out I was first pregnant. 'Cause I... Basically, I
decided I didn't want
to have my baby. So, basically, this is the
center that helps you
cope with the situation. But instead, they gave
me a conception date and they talked me
into keeping my baby. <i> 'Cause they gave me an
ultrasound and I heard
her heart beat</i> <i> and I couldn't do it anymore.</i> And when you got that
conception date, it
leaned towards two... JUDGE LAKE: There were
two men in the picture. Exactly. When I got the first
conception date,
it pointed to Mr. White. I followed up on OB-GYN
and they gave me another
conception date. So, that puts me in the
middle with two guys. They then did the
calculation and gave you
a new conception date. Right. Yes, Your Honor. And that conception date
clearly pointed to a certain man? MS. LOVING: Yes. Which one? Mr. Talbert. Oh. (CHUCKLES) JUDGE LAKE: So, when you got
the second conception date you said it brought
Mr. Talbert into the picture
as the potential father and yet you're saying today Mr. White is your
child's father. (CHUCKLES) MS. LOVING: I'm
confused about both. So, you're in fact confused... MS. LOVING: Right. And you really don't know. Exactly. She beautiful, though.
But no, ma'am, I didn't. I'd like to hear from
your witness, sir.
Please stand, ma'am. Ms. White. PAM WHITE: Yes. You're Mr. White's mother? Yes, Your Honor. All right, you
have doubt, as well? I do. But, Your Honor, um... My family has six fingers. My grandmother have it.
He had it. My other son had it and
my other son's son had it. PAM: And um, to me
she don't look like my son.
I mean, she's beautiful. PAM: You know, I'm
saying she's beautiful. JUDGE LAKE: Yeah. She is. My son, right here, the only
reason why he took the DNA
there, Your Honor, is because from day one
we want to know. So, we can do what
we have to do. My son is very responsible.
He's been worried,
stressed about it. PAM: You know, he wanna know. PAM: If this is his, we
refuse to have ours
out there, you know, without us doing
anything for her. I mean, why refuse a test? If I know, you my baby daddy,
you better swab it, baby. I didn't refuse the test. PAM: If I have a problem... (AUDIENCE CLAPPING) I have a problem with that. If I have a... If I was her
and I just pushed a baby... What does pushing the
baby have to do with my DNA? I didn't refuse.
I didn't refuse. Yes, she did. (ALL ARGUING INDISTINCTLY) (GAVEL BANGING) Let's get some order. If she was worried
about it, Your Honor, call the nurse in,
ask the nurse if she could do
the swab for her. You know... Your point is, "If this
is my child's father..." PAM: Mmm-hmm. "And I know this. "And even if I don't,
even if it's between
two potential people. "If I can get this
doubt out of the way..." Right. "And make sure it's still
medically safe for my new born
baby to be swabbed, "ask the nurse, get it done,
send out for the results.
It's over." When she didn't want
to take the tests that day. That just further
fueled your doubt. JUDGE LAKE: So, Mr. White,
you say, you have a witness that says he is this
child's father. Jerome, please escort
Mr. White's witness
into the courtroom. MR. WHITE:
Congratulations, bro. Mr. Talbert. TALBERT: Yes, ma'am. Thank you for
joining us today. You're welcome. JUDGE LAKE: You realize,
we're talking about paternity as it relates to five
month old baby Loyal. Yes, ma'am. JUDGE LAKE: You have had
a sexual relationship with Ms. Loving, is that correct? TALBERT: Yes, that's correct. Do you believe you're
Loyal's biological father? I do. JUDGE LAKE: You do? Yeah. JUDGE LAKE: So,
why do you believe this? Well, me and Ms. Loving,
we actually were in
a relationship. Relationship was short,
about two weeks. But... (LAUGHS) But over time... It only takes a day. Over time, we
were friends. So, you were in a sexual
relationship. Yes. JUDGE LAKE: In the
window of conception? Yes. TALBERT: I have some evidence.
I've got some pictures. Yes, I'd like to see that.
What is this, sir? This her baby picture. JUDGE LAKE: <i> And that's a
picture of you as
a baby on the left</i> <i> and that's Loyal on the right.</i> TALBERT: <i> Yes.</i> JUDGE LAKE: <i> And you
believe you look alike?</i> TALBERT: <i> Yes.</i> At what point did she tell
you, she was pregnant? About four to five
months down the line. Which lines up with your
testimony, Ms. Loving. Because you said the first
conception date clearly
pointed to Mr. White. But when you went to
the doctor later on, it established that there
was potentially Mr. Talbert as another possible father. Correct. JUDGE LAKE: Because the
conception date changed. Correct. So, when you got this news,
did she tell you, you were one
of two people that could be... TALBERT: Yes. She did? JUDGE LAKE:
Were you happy
about this news? Well, I was
kind of excited. But at the same time,
I wasn't... I didn't
know for sure if it was gonna be mine
or someone else's. So, how involved have
you been in Loyal's life? She's five months old. I came home a week
after the baby was born. Okay. TALBERT: <i> My family members
were showing pictures of her,
saying she looked like me.</i> Okay, now that she's five
months, have you seen her? Yes. Have you held her? Yes. Have you spent time with her? Yes. Have you helped support her? No. TALBERT: Well, it wasn't
like that, you know. She already had everything. I asked her if she was
straight, she said,
"I'm good." He asked if you needed
help with the baby? And you said, "No, I'm fine"? Yes, Your Honor. Now did you say that because,
you really were fine? Or did you say that because
you thought Mr. White
was the child's father? And you wanted him to help? I was really fine. I was okay. Loyal's good.
She don't need nothing. JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Loving,
when you looked at
this evidence that Mr. Talbert presented and
you saw those pictures, did that change your mind
or you still believe Mr. White is your
grandchild's father? BRENDA: <i> When I look at
them pictures, up there,
Your Honor,</i> <i> she does look like him.</i> But like I always said,
I believed that Mr. White was the father
because that's the one... MS. LOVING: That she wants
to be the father. No. It's not that I want
him to be the father... JUDGE LAKE:
Why do you say that? She knew how I felt
about him. She likes him. She wants us to be together.
She really likes him. And that's what we fall
out about because at the end of the day you
don't know the situation
between me and him. So, you can't just go
from what you see. I mean, to be a mother,
we have hopes and dreams
for our children. And if it was somebody that
I hoped and dreamed to marry my daughter,
it would've been him. You know, he never
disrespected me, like some of
the people she's been around. And I just loved him.
His mother did a
great job raising him. You understand, that has no
bearing on the biology or... I know that,
Mr. White... I think, it's clear... You hope that this is
Mr. White's child because of the way
you feel about him. And what you feel like
he would be in your grandchild's life,
a good father, a stand-up guy, maybe even
marry your daughter. But understand that
there are hopes... Mmm-hmm. There are dreams and then there's DNA. Yeah. (AUDIENCE CLAPPING) We have the results for you. JUDGE LAKE: These results were
prepared by DNA Diagnostics
and they read as follows. In the case of<i>
White Talbert v. Loving,</i> when it comes to five month
old Loyal Loving, it has been determined
by this court, Loyal's biological father is Mr. Talbert. (AUDIENCE CLAPPING) JUDGE LAKE:
Congratulations, sir. Are you glad to
know the truth? I am. JUDGE LAKE: Mr. White,
your assertion was true. JUDGE LAKE:
But I do have to say this,
I appreciated the fact that you were still present
on the day Loyal was born. You still took it upon
yourself to try and
solve an issue. Right. That really was separating you from
bonding with this child. You tried to do
what was right. Ms. Loving, are you glad
to know the truth? I'm glad to know
the truth too. I don't
really know, um... Mr. Talbert... Well, you'll get to
know him now. You know, one thing
that I did ask him when he came to visit Loyal, if she's your child
what're you gonna do? That's what I asked him. What was his answer? I'd like
to know the answer too. Since she is your child,
what are your plans? Stepping up and being
a father. Making sure
I'm there for her. You know, I have another
three-year-old,
she likes babies. You know, so I want to raise
them. I've got a big family. You know, I've got a lot
of nephews and nieces and when I showed
them pictures of her,
they're like, "Oh, I want to
meet her and..." My sister turn around and say,
"You gotta get the DNA first. "You gotta do this, you gotta
do that." So that's why
I made it, on my own to go see the baby and I do see us potentially
getting together and being a family. (AUDIENCE CLAPPING) JUDGE LAKE:
And on that positive note I will say court is adjourned.
Good luck to all of you.
