The Terrifying Case of The Girlfriend Killer

this video is brought to you by exter come on in here have a seat in there and put your shoes thank you you're welcome in today's video we will watch the interrogation of a quiet elderly prisoner charged with murder is he an innocent senile senior being harassed by the police or is he a cunning manipulative killer you'll have to watch closely to find out on november 12 2014 liz verdette was seen for the very last time a mother and grandmother fredette was a warm friendly woman surrounded by people who cared for her almost instantly her previous boyfriend andrew watson was on the police's radar watson hadn't fully accepted the termination of their relationship and had been stalking for debt and leaving her cruel notes large amounts of blood were found in her driveway along with her keys and glasses and police later discovered a bloody shovel in watson's basement along with blood in his car well you do have socks on under that good [Music] am i going to be able to keep these shoes oh yeah they're gonna go with you they'll follow you like [Music] you're in here with me for a bit got some things to talk about so you put your shoes on get comfortable probably keep your feet warmer [Music] no can you believe they're not uh [Music] ah there's your food thank you very much indeed you're welcome there's um you said cream with your coffee yeah you can add it i didn't know if you wanted one or two [Music] a couple of housekeeping details you eat do your thing okay there's a couple things i want to explain to you so you understand um everything you and i do everything we say in this room back in this cell block area is all recorded okay you mean i taped the cartridge somewhere yep it's all being recorded video and audio okay so you can hear us in scenes so you're going to notice sandy with me today like i don't sit and i don't write things down it doesn't work that way okay because well the way policing is now you record everything and it's for your protection it's also for my protection okay nobody can ever say down the road andy said this when he didn't or scott said this when he didn't you know we live in a world now where it's like no we can just press play and you can listen to what i said okay so i just want to let you know that that's happening okay and just you know i'm sure you're not surprised by that if you um if you go anywhere these days drive to a bank drive to a coffee shop drive to a grocery store they're taking our picture that's the world we live in okay well that's no different than law enforcement that's how we do things now so i just want to make you aware of that i'm just going to turn this fan on this heater down a little bit are you warm enough i'm okay okay i'm gonna turn it off for now a little bit if you aren't warm enough you let me know and i'll turn it back on okay [Music] did you have breakfast this morning what time did you eat [Music] diabetic but i don't do it but that can be more like washing up this is all there deal okay but you gotta eat if you're diabetic you've got special dietary restrictions oh i had um some cereal and banana and an english muffin for my breakfast good okay well that's good and the pork cheese i like cheese you like tea i drink a lot of cheese yeah okay and obviously coffee too or you just every once in a while breakfast and lunches you drink coffee after myself oh okay well there you go well i hope you don't mind i got one for myself too so i could join you i didn't need any food but if you're gonna have a coffee i thought i'll take advantage i just got here myself so as we settle into this process i'll have a coffee with you okay um you understand you're at the peterborough police service okay is there any any confusion as to where you are right now okay do you know what day it is watson is brought into the room wearing coverings on his feet before the officer lets him put his own back on there is no mention of why this is the case but it may be because they needed to test the shoes for some reason saturday you know what the date is what do you know what the date is uh maybe around the 20th or 21st on which you're close when uh when you're retired you know days are all the same it's kind of like the whole time is just to one continue yeah saturday's no different for me than sunday on monday or tuesday and they're all the same but still like that when you work it's not like that yeah you know you're aware of every day in the weekends but when you're retired it's a whole different ballgame yeah well i'm not quite there yet so unfortunately i got to keep track of dates and times and all that stuff today you were close today's the 22nd 22nd 22nd of november okay i keep track of the date when i found them yep at home but they took a win so now i've lost all the people's birthdays and anniversaries and everything else everything was in that calendar yeah okay okay well as we and i go through this process andy there's no doubt you're gonna have some questions for me you feel free to ask me anything you want okay if i can answer it i will and if i can't i'll explain to you why okay okay can we start with this sure it's my understanding that the police are legally advised to give me a list of the stuff that they take from my home and from my car and i have asked several policemen for this list and none of them will give me a list so you want to know specifically what was taken from i want to know exactly what they took from my home and what they took from my car okay well you don't even think maybe i'm wrong you don't even have your car back yet do you no no okay so maybe you can explain to me how it takes over a week to sell to a little car well yeah you know what and i i when you're done eating and i'll let you finish i will definitely answer that question for you no issue i got no problem answering that for you and the house and the car were being served yeah and the search for it so they expired no they hadn't been anywhere no no and and i'm not going to do it because i really do but i can show you how how come they're not expired i don't mind explaining that to you because that's a logical question that people sometimes confuse it's so important to me i don't care how long they stay there no but i just want you to understand that the search warrants hadn't expired what happens with a search warrant so you understand is that and i have a copy of them here that i can show you because that would probably familiarize yourself with them but see what happens with the search warrant is there's a date and a time put on it okay but the date and the time is what we call the execution date and time which means that the reader the judge or justice has authorized the police yep you can go search that car or yes you can go search that house you have to execute that warrant on this date between these time frames so maybe it would be like the 14th of november between three o'clock in the afternoon and eight o'clock at night that's when you have to execute this form once the police have executed that warrant within that time frame there is no time limit at that point in time like they don't have to be out by eight o'clock at night it just means they have to have executed that warrant to show the judge or justice that yeah we've entered the premise and we've executed it at that time because sometimes and i'm not talking about this investigation i'm talking about others that i've worked on you could be at a scene or have an item for a long time but what you're reading on the face of the warrant that you would have is what we refer to as the execution time when dealing with elderly suspects and witnesses it is important to make sure that they are showing no signs of anything that will impede their understanding of the process such as dementia asking the date is a common starting point but watson's answer is fairly typical of many retirees they have a general idea about the day of the month but since they have no real reason to keep track of it anymore it might be a few days off we'll learn more about this after a quick word from our sponsor there used to be a time when losing your wallet was merely an inconvenience today it has the potential to become a serious issue extra smart wallets design innovative solutions to improve the way you carry your everyday items their rfid protection guards against identity theft and skimming each card is easily accessible without being bulky or difficult to slip into your pocket we've all had that heart stopping moment when we aren't sure where we've placed our wallet but with extra's tracker this is one wallet you won't have to worry about losing go to shop.extra.com stranger dash stories to get a 5 discount on top of their huge february sale so maybe that's what you were looking at and i can see when you know i it's not a it's not like argument or debatable it's a good question and that's what that's how it works it's not important to me really okay well you brought it up it's a good question the list is important it'll get you it's a fact that they're supposed to get me on this maybe they're not maybe i just have wrong i don't have a problem getting you a list of what was taken it's not a secret it's your house some of the things you've probably noticed or missing maybe others you didn't but i don't have a problem with it at the end of the day it's your material it's your information you have a right to know what it is i was going to give you a friendly word of advice what's that if you're ever going to go to a house to ask somebody to speak to you so you can ask them questions yeah don't do it after they've been searched because that person will be so pissed off they will they will not talk to you no matter what well you want to know something andy i couldn't agree with you more that's why we're here now the peterborough is out you should see the mess in my house did they not leave i agree with you andy i talk to people all the time and you know what yeah like if i if i go to anybody and say here's a search warrant i'm going to search a car and i do that and then the next day i show up saying hey would you like to come in and talk to me you're probably going to be annoyed with me you're not going to be a happy guy it depends the condition you left my car on my house well you don't have your car back but you do have your house and obviously you're saying your house wasn't left in great shape my house is a disgrace okay notice bad shape it's a disgrace yeah and that's not supposed to happen you there's a way to search there's a way to do it properly absolutely and i don't know why but they seem to want to open their windows and as a result the kitchen when the land was broken up in there and i wanted to try and get it closed but you can't close it because it's letting the cold air in i know i threw out my cash bill yep but they don't care about any of that stuff we'll get that resolved the police have a loan to themselves to do whatever the hell they want and they will not answer your questions it doesn't matter what you ask them well i told you today i'll answer your questions so there you of go these are messy things to eat aren't they they're good but they're messy i never believe in this well those are the things that you don't eat when you're driving somewhere because they go all over the place you can't keep track of it while you're driving right it's not good snacking food that way if you need more you could use those booty things if you want to wake up [Music] i can get you a list i got no issue with that i'll answer your questions about why searches take the length of time that they do absolutely what other questions you got for me that's all really i couldn't see why it took so long but i couldn't see why i can't get on this you'll get a list i don't even know why they arrested me i'm going to explain all that to you you'll know clearly because i'm not going anywhere you can let me stay at home where they said be comfortable wanting a list of things that have been removed is understandable although some might see it as a sign of guilt as if he's trying to determine if they have found something he knows will implicate him however for innocent people it is jarring to have strangers go through their things and it can be confusing to determine what has actually been taken and what might have been lost different countries have different rules for these procedures so it is a good idea to look up the laws for your location so you can have the best idea of what you may need to expect and i wouldn't be causing you any trouble response and anytime you want me you just come and get me i'd be right there soon right but that's what happened today they came and got you right see there's a process we have to [ __ ] so the way it works when you ask about arrest and things like that and i don't i don't want you to say anything i just want you to listen to me okay um you understand that you're under arrest okay what did the officers tell you that you're under arrest for when they went and arrested you today [Music] criminal harassment okay exactly and that's my understanding too right so you you know that you're under arrest for murder in the first degree in criminal harassment okay we're talking right now about the the disappearance and murder of lease for debt yeah okay i don't need you to say anything other than just it's been explained to you that she's the person who's missing you're aware of this through the course of this investigation okay and this is the way we look at it from the opp perspective okay andy um i'll get into a little bit more detail to say here but she she's you're under arrest for that they told you that today they also when they arrested you they would have told you your rights they would have read your rights to you okay good and it's my understanding as well that you also spoke to a lawyer today yeah i don't want to know what you and the lawyer talked about i just you did speak to a lawyer is that accurate okay are you satisfied with the advice you received from that lawyer you don't need to tell me what that person told you i'm just asking you i'm satisfied okay and you understood what they told you okay now you wanna you know these are serious allegations because the allegations are first murder in the first degree okay so other than treason to the queen it doesn't get much higher than that in the criminal code when we talk about offenses against another person okay that's an arrestable offense and we as officers have an obligation when it comes to certain types of offenses okay where we don't have discretion to just leave somebody at home come and deal with them when we need to we need to arrest process that individual and then put them before the courts and it's the courts that then decide on continued detention or whether or not they get released back into the community while these allegations are resolved does that make sense so far okay so that's why you were arrested that's why we can't just leave you at home okay i'm not suggesting for one moment that you're planning on going anywhere or that you want to cause problems to anybody but that's the way the law is written and that's the way the law works okay so what will happen from this process on is that you will eventually end up before the courts okay they will decide whether or not you continue to stay in jail or whether or not you get released back into the community while these allegations move forward to the courts make sense so far it'll start tomorrow okay the process will start tomorrow okay tomorrow's a sunday it's my understanding that you'll be remanded into custody tomorrow so what that means is you will appear before a justice of the peace probably on a video camera you'll be remanded into custody and then next week i don't know exactly what day but probably monday tuesday it'll be early you will actually appear in court okay and your lawyer will be there the crown prosecution will be there and they will you know your lawyer will instruct you in the courts as to what your wishes are and they will decide and the courts i'm referring today will decide whether or not you get out or you continue to stay in jail i'm going to tell you right now andy just so you just so you know these are murder allegations these are extremely serious um in my experience the likelihood that you'll be released is very slim i'm just being honest with you okay that's just the way it is so if i'm not released you'll be coming back here no you'll go to the jail i don't know but i'll find out for you because i'm not from here so if lindsay is the closest jail to here then i guess that's where you would go i can find that but i'm going to be here at least for two or three days no you will be here today you'll probably be here tonight you'll be gone by tomorrow i would think okay okay okay i'm just that's straight up in the answer as i can give you so if i'm going tomorrow i'll be going to the jail lindsay is that what i mean yes it can be difficult to get a clear answer about what you are being charged with or if you're even being arrested held on suspicion or being brought in for questioning if he had talked to a lawyer the lawyer isn't doing a very good job if he is letting watson speak alone i will confirm that for you in case there's a different jail around here that they would take to take you to but it's quite conceivable it's the jail and lindsay that would make sense yeah okay and regardless of where they take you it's it's an institution that they would take you and hold you until you go to court okay like i say i'm not from here it's different everywhere i go in the province but i can certainly before we're done here today find out which jail you would go to okay so those are the allegations that's what you're here for you understand that i think we've clearly established the fact that they're very very serious you would agree with me okay now i just want to cover off a couple things with you because i met you a little while ago back in the cells when we talked that's the first time i've ever met you um [Music] you understand that you're under arrest i know that you've spoken to a lawyer okay but i just want to make sure you clearly understand your rights okay so you understand that you're being charged with murder in the first degree okay and criminal harassment these are with respect to the allegations against uh lease for debt okay and i'm going to go into that a little bit more in a minute okay i want you to understand that you know that you have the right to speak to a lawyer okay i know you've already spoken to a lawyer so we have two options in this country we have what we call legal aid or duty council which is my understanding that that's who you spoke to okay and there's a 1-800 toll-free number that puts you in touch with them they're able to provide you with free legal advice rights 24 hours a day seven days a week okay and if that's you know a person you want to speak to to seek out legal advice like you did that's an option that's available to you okay in this country we also have something known as what we call council of choice what that means is people are free to choose any lawyer they want it doesn't have to be a free legal aid duty council lawyer okay and and you have that right as well we all have those rights so you have that right as well where you can also pick out your own lawyer we call that council of choice okay so whether you know your own lawyer have your own lawyer or you want to choose your own lawyer that's entirely up to you do you understand these rights okay did you want to speak to a lawyer i know you've already spoken to the legally duty council understand that that lawyer i spoke to said there would be a lawyer here tomorrow okay that i don't know that's got nothing to do with me i don't lawyers don't come to the police stations i'll tell you that right now that's as honest as i can maybe maybe what they were telling you is that the lawyer will be at the court yeah not at the police station well that's what i mean okay he said there would be a lawyer in attendance when i was being yes that's at the court i just want to be very clear with you on that that that's at the court setting there won't be a lawyer here at the police station okay i just want to be clear on that okay so are you do you understand what your rights are when i explain to you about the lawyers you're satisfied you had an opportunity to speak to the lawyer you wanted to is there anybody else you want to talk to okay the other thing i want to explain to you is and i know you've already had this explained to you but um you know you're under no obligation to speak to me here today you don't have to say anything if you don't want to okay so i don't want you to feel obliged i don't want you feel compelled to say anything to me here today unless you want to okay but just remember whatever we do talk about is being recorded and could be used as evidence in court okay the other thing is i know that you've spoken to other police officers in relation to this investigation before you've met me here today is that accurate okay as a result of that okay this is very important i don't want you to feel compelled i don't want you to feel obliged in any way okay that you have to repeat anything to me here today that you may have already told another police officer okay you're under no obligation you're not obliged you're not compelled in any way to repeat any of your previous conversations with any other officers to meet here today okay but again just remember that whatever we do talk about could be used in evidence okay who who ultimately decides whether something can be used in evidence in courtroom do you know i guess the judge absolutely and you know what i ask that question of everybody because i want people to have an understanding that it's not up to me it's not up to lawyers it's up to the judge and a judge ultimately decides if something is allowed to be used in court and that's why i always use the word allowed because just because people talk to me doesn't mean it's allowed to be a court the ultimate decision rests with the judge make sense to you okay but the judge might not think about that if the defense attorney doesn't pose an objection well here's the thing about defense attorneys they have to listen to you because they represent you they work for you they may not be bright enough to know when to object as a pensioner it is unlikely although not possible that watson has the funds to afford an attorney in these cases it is best to ask to be appointed one although the quality or service may vary well then if you're bright enough you tell them whenever the judge may be asleep who knows but you have to understand as this process unfolds andy defense lawyers work for you it's your job to make sure that they're doing what you want them to do they are there to provide you with good advice sound advice they are your legal barometer however you're allowed to make up your own mind you're a smart man so if you don't think they're doing something that you want them to do then you need to tell them that okay that's that's you know down the road where you down you know that's a process down the road but don't ever forget that they're there for you they work for you okay and they're there to guide you lawyers are very smart people so are judges you have to remember judges were once lawyers right but by and large you know they have to remember that they're representing you they have your best interest at heart but they have to listen to you as well because they're there to represent you period make sense okay any confusion about anything that i've explained to you here so far no any questions on any of that the only question i have is why it took over a week to search my house and over a week to search my car that does not make any sense at all to me okay um i will answer your question okay and why why i didn't get a list of things taken okay well the list of things um you know there's no obligation on the police to hand you something like that that comes out through what's known as court disclosure so when the police put together their crown brief and present it to the courts to say here's the allegations and this is why we think this person committed this offense that's called disclosure and disclosure comes to you and your lawyer and in that disclosure will then be a list of everything that was taken everything that was seized so there's no obligation on the police to hand you a list ahead of time i was told that there was okay if i can ask who told you that but whether this one i was speaking to okay well here's the thing eddie i personally don't have a problem getting you a list because there's no issue with it you're gonna you it's your house you should already know what's missing and if there's certain things that you're not sure i couldn't tell you what's missing everything's just a mess andy i'll get you a list that's how insignificant it is to me i'll get you a list there's no secrets here because you know what it's your property it's things that belong to you why would i not tell you so i don't have a problem with that why does it take so long to do your car well here's the thing we still have your car okay forensic examinations which is what's happening with your car take time and here's the reason why it takes time this is one investigation that's happening in the entire province on any given time unfortunately there are many serious investigations that are happening all over this province every day when people seize things that they want to have forensically examined traditionally all of our exhibits go to what we refer to as the center of forensic sciences you've heard of that place is that london no it's in toronto there's one in toronto and there's also one in sault ste marine okay but the biggest one is in tron okay that's traditionally where police law enforcement send their exhibits for forensic examinations okay [Music] they are busy period so what happens is and i know this doesn't sound fair and it but what happens is we are one case at this day at this time that sends down a car and says we want to have it forensically examined they have cars lined up they have exhibits lined up they have everything lined up and they have to prioritize them and get to them when they can so are you saying my car was taken to toronto uh i believe that's where your car went to yeah you're kidding no we didn't drive it don't worry nobody drove your car to toronto we tow it put it in a nice big enclosed truck and take it down protect it but that's where the the scientific work has to happen the scientists then go through the car the detective has given watson a pretty thorough explanation of his rights as well as how events will proceed and his options for legal counsel watson has indicated that he understands everything so far so it should be about time for the interview to begin in earnest and here's the thing once they start looking at your car it takes a long time sometimes because it's not just walk into room we're talking about you know special scientific procedures that have to take place that things that aren't visible to the naked eye special procedures that take place to to make exhibits become visible to be revealed then further processes to to to uh you know work up those exhibits to figure out what they are we're hey we're looking for everything from hair and fibers to dna everything right that takes time you figure the size of the inside of a car the size of the outside of a car we you know what we will look for exhibits we will look for things as small as that little piece of lettuce and sesame seed on the table and we will work up a dna profile from that okay and you think of the size of that and put that in context with the entire vehicle so it takes a long time to go through your vehicle so you don't know at the moment what stage in the process my car is in i know they've started to look at it i know they're not done have you any idea when they will be when the car will come back no i don't today no as i sit here today i don't know when that car will be done okay but when it's done when the police no longer need it and it's no longer of any evidentiary value like we no longer need to hold on to it to process it it will be returned and it will be returned in the same condition with which it was taken and if you have a problem with that and there's something different about that then you call me does that sound fair mm-hmm i still think you could let me go home where i would at least be comfortable i'm not going to go anywhere or do anything bad andy i i totally understand what you're saying i'm a very very simple person i read a very simple live i've never learned i have no tv no computer no telephone none of that stuff i just have groups i read constantly what do you mean everything must be true stories rather than fiction i don't read much pictures i like true stories in like sports movies and sports books and like things like that what's your passion what do you like when you talk about you say like true stories what do you like i've got autobiographies from margaret thatcher michael caine the movie star yep um okay forget his name he was a spy in britain unlike the lightning fast forensic process seen in movies and on tv the actual process is much slower because of the backlog it isn't unusual for some tests to take months before results are available and he was caught george johnson it was the spy and then yeah and he got caught and he got sentenced to 42 years i think it was yeah and one was scrubbed which was a big prison in london which was considered to be pregnant yeah and after a few years he escaped from him and he tells you in his book it tells you well i'll tell you why his childhood and growing up in the whole business you know yeah and how he escaped and how he got away from britain and managed to get to [Music] germany and berlin and from then the communists who they were spaying for took him to moscow and he lived in moscow since then so no no tv no internet no telephone that's obviously by choice i mean you're a smart man so why why did you make that choice that you don't want those things i think these things are dangerous okay not so long ago i heard that i read a case of a woman who actually lost her house and apparently these crews got a hold of the data from her credit card and now i don't know how they did this but they were able to transfer ownership of the house from the lady's name to their name and they sold it right and then eventually it came out that this has happened right and the bridge i think just found the guys thousands of dollars in legal expenses to change your house yeah and that's just one of thousands of frauds are committed every day with credit cards and computers absolutely i agree so if you don't want to be co-op and something like that just don't have a computer or credit card you know what it's not a bad way to look at it like how can anybody argue with that well people said to me houston i live with earth california and i said to them how do you think people look before the telephone was invented they led carefully productive lives it hasn't perfectly normal lives well i look at it this way as well i have three daughters right now yeah you're older than me but i grew up when i when i was growing up in my generation there were no cell phones there were no computers there was no internet um we had black and white television we didn't have remote controls right um my you know if somebody needed to get a hold of me they knew where i was and hopefully they either called the school or whatever but if i needed to get a hold of them 10 cents got you a pay phone and you made a phone call i fast forward now to this generation that we're in and there's kids now that how they they seem to think they can't survive without a computer without a cell phone how do they stay in touch with everybody socially i find kids now my own included are socially inept because they don't talk on the phone anymore they text and write one another through emails they don't write letters they don't talk on the phone and when i do force my girls to talk on the phone to their friends they sound socially awkward they they can't carry a conversation it's actually funny to listen to it so you're not wrong in your thinking it's just the way the world has gone because there's also a lot of good things that comes out of the technology too yeah why is this culture of change absolutely gradual cultural change which presumably will keep going but um i excuse me it's just a hell of a view but you're 76. when i see what they can do they can do almost anything they want with a computer yeah it's pretty incredible it's pretty incredible absolutely absolutely but i mean when you think about it you're 76 years old you've survived this long without those things really you're doing okay so what does it really matter what other people think i don't care exactly right so you know you're good to go it doesn't really matter um but that's you're right that's you know that's but that's your choice that's the way you chose to live so obviously you're a big reader the reason i joined these things is certainly not because i kind of work time everybody wanted to make it happen yeah i'm not suggesting that it's a situation [Music] i think that's one of the biggest disappointments in my life is the way tv went because when it wasn't came out at first i thought this is a great thing we're going to be able to get all sorts of educational programs and programs of more nature and oh all sorts of wonderful things were built again and what do we get the place is great let's make a deal match gave a whole bunch of absolute values watson's choice to avoid most technology will both help and hinder the investigation on one hand the search is simplified since any information will be written down or there might be books he used for research on the other hand a computer would have made checking his browser history to see what he had recently looked into as well as any recent suspicious purchases much easier a phone with texts could have also provided a great deal of personal information between watson and the victim yeah yeah yeah and those shows are still on i know dancing with this term all right i know it seems to me that location into the lowest common denominator people well you know this they wouldn't do it and the shows wouldn't be on if there wasn't a following no absolutely because there's a following the shows continue ratings rule tv exactly right so if if everybody stopped watching it and wasn't interested the show would end but you're right the game shows keep coming because there are people who sit and just take them in hour after hour yeah right i still think it's sad very yeah you know what i i'm not gonna i mean i certainly can't argue with that and i will tell you in my 25 years on this job and the experience i have of talking to people maybe on one hand i can count the number of people such as you that have kind of gone off the grid when it comes to certain pieces of technology and and have stood by it you know you read you do your things um the majority of people that i talk to are addicted to technology they're they're part of it they're they're they're right involved very very few are are like yourself you guys are a rare breed nowadays there's nothing wrong with that it's your choice right like you say your attitude is you don't care so good for you there's nothing wrong with that it's all good now i know you worked with the m r you worked as a clerk what does that mean what did you do well at different times i did differently you know they ship you in sometimes from thing to thing right one time i worked for some time with the licensing section you know uh appreciate hunting our licenses and other times i did other things like they have [Music] crown land which they rent out to people yes under various different schemes and uh these people are supposed to pay rent for this land of the rent yeah and that sort of thing you like you were in charge of renting it to people or what was your role no i was in charge of by the accounts scene that they paid for paid events there's also another thing that they have in ontario it's waterproof water power yeah if you want to set up a little electricity generating station on a river or something right you have to apply to the ontario government to get permission to do it and if you get permission then you have to pay for using the water oh okay i got you all right and that's what they call what they're doing and you you were like in charge of those accounts too yeah okay now where did you spend your career working on like what office please chris barnes you were in tron okay gotcha now you retired quite a few years ago mm-hmm whole career queen's park oh no no no when i came over here first from scotland i had an awful time tried to find a job because everywhere i went they said to me do you have canadian experience and i say no i don't have any canadian experience and they said well we can't hire you if you look at any experience so they were on for a long time and i get so paid off i decided did just any job at all i could get just to earn some money so uh i did a few jobs weren't very nice but they got me some canadian experience what did you do i worked in this place called thermofresh it was a company that made coffee and they put this coffee into machine vending machines all over toronto okay and they sold other stuff like stacks and stuff like that their machines vending machines that would spit out a cookie monster or something like this right different stuff yeah and this old machine's machines that was that nice job anyway another job i had was driving a truck for a laundry company during the time i worked there the name of the company changed several times but it was a big long established company yeah i don't know why they can't change names but they did maybe some kind of attached or tank storage or something i don't know no it's possible yeah the detective has kept things casual chatting with watson to foster a sense of trust in order to get him to speak freely it also gives the detective an opportunity to observe watson's speech and body language patterns which will come in handy when watching for signs of lying or avoiding subjects anyway in the ontario government they have two types of employees one are called classified employees and these are regular employees and they have unclassified employees and these are hired on a contract and theoretically the maximum length of the contract is nine months but sometimes they are managed to get around this anyway i decided if i wanted to get a decent job to take any job at all i could get with the ontario room and i was able to get a job as a male boy with tourism ministry of tourism but of course it was an unclassified job anyway i stuck at that for a while and once you're once you're in the ontario government your bike says to this newspaper that comes around every week posting all the jobs so uh using that paper i was able to apply for classified jobs which i did and i eventually got a classified job for the ministry of health okay yep and overlead boulevard do you know over labor do you know toronto i don't yeah i i'm in toronto quite often yeah yeah okay i i don't know that i've ever been on overlea boulevard what part of the city is that east west like it's all called toronto now but way back in the day scarborough and melbourne just a little bit east it's uh overlea boulevard is famous for a huge mall on one side and coca-cola on the other [Music] this whole area which is sort of elevated you know the dome valley parkways down there and yes it used to be a racetrack okay they had a big grease tank there i can't remember what it was called it's not scarborough downs i don't think so because don valley parkway you're on you're getting into the east side of the city oh yeah yeah yeah just just to the east not a lot to the east okay yeah anyway used to be a racetrack and i think it went on fire or something anyway developers got a hold of this big racetrack and they've just built hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of apartments okay and they have a big mall that's right it was a huge development yes but i thought you might know it from coca-cola being there yeah i can picture coca-cola because where was i the other day i was just down in the city and i was also near the campbell soup factory which is on the other end down in etobicoke kind of the other corner right and then uh red past sugar right downtown if you're familiar with that one north pole in the lake yeah right on the lake off the qe there and that's redna so no yeah so you worked for ohip for a while yeah well i i did i did different jobs different places so somewhere in the same way yeah he worked for coca-cola watson goes into detail about his immigration and work history while interesting from some standpoints it's far enough in his past that it probably won't have any bearing on this case yeah so when did you start with the m r i really don't know but well i was i was working with uh over yeah that's ontario health insurance plan now in those days to be a member of ohio and have health coverage you had to pay premiums so every month every so often they would send you a little card saying you had to pay three months premiums i think it was something like 36 dollars a month or something like that anyway in any event after not too long we decided to do away with the premiums and just make it free but the thing is the ontario government decided that they had mayors from cities all over ontario complaining to the government that all the government good paying jobs are on toronto why couldn't they get some of these good jobs their place you know yeah so the government decided to disperse the jobs right uh and the next thing i know is that they told me the ministry of health is going to taste it i didn't want to go to kingston so i immediately started looking for a job elsewhere and that's why i've got a job with mnr gotcha they sent forestry to susan marie they sent the opp to you mean when they moved from downtown the headquarters yeah they they moved to ireland yeah the headquarters i just mean all these ministries they got displaced yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah because the ministry of health went to kingston um opp went to aurelia yep it's they all kind of got displaced all over the place absolutely so if you were working in toronto were you living in toronto or were you living here no no i have lived in toronto since i came to canada so when did you move here to peterborough when they made me move oh okay when was that well first of all we come along one day and said we're relocating we're going to the chinatowns and we're all looking at each other saying what the hell is this you know what it turns out these are three little towns away up in the north ontario haileybury cobalt and newest guard in the wrong lake to miss coming away above north bay yep so they said we're going to be located so they kill us all in these big buses and took us up there for the weekend paid all the expenses the accommodation and put the whole bed and took us all around these towns to see if we would like it and uh and then took his bites turned on and for some reason rather than change their mind about that and they said we're not relocating to the dry times we're going to relocate to peterborough well i'm going to ask you what did you think of cobalt and haileybury and knew this group well i think in the summertime they would be nice maybe but i think they would be very severe in the wintertime have you been to cobalt lately no there's not much there anymore well i don't know because it was a mining town i think yeah i think the corporation yeah well it is it's it's once the only reason for the time being is go on then yeah i think it was probably a good move to go to peterborough because yeah those northern communities it may have been a mistake to engage watson in so much casual conversation like so many people his age he shows a tendency to get swept up in nostalgia and forget what is actually going on in the present although they're still there cobalt has not flourished new lizards doing okay sounds like elliott league yeah it used to be a mining or something up there and then they run out so the city partners have decided to try and make a retirement community to see if they can keep the town alive by importing elderly people to live there in their retirement years that's the only reason elliott lake exists right now yeah and i don't know if it's working here it has a it has a good population year round but they made it affordable and they made it for retirement living living so that people could retire still own their own home a lot of people that live there tend to be snow birds go south in the winter it's nice in the summer with the lakes and the wilderness but um yeah that's that's why elliot lake survives absolutely it's got a reasonable proximity to sudbury so for major shopping and things like that but yeah that's that's what they did with it for sure because there's really no other reason for it there's nothing else going on there that's for sure so peterborough has done well by the m r then well they've got lots of a big payroll imported into peterborough which must help the city economically get a great deal oh i would think so also around peterborough the expansion that's going on is unbelievable yeah every every part right around the city has got housing developments going yeah yeah peterborough is growing for sure how long the house you're in now has that always been the house yeah i moved in thousands when i came here in 1995. okay so i've been in the house 19 years right okay my understanding is you had i want to say like a long time partner who passed away from cancer is that true who told you that well i know things well i don't talk about that no and i don't expect that you need to talk about it i just that's my understanding is that you uh you were involved and that's sad those are unfortunate circumstances but i don't know i certainly don't need to dwell on it or talk about it but that's our past and we all have pasts that's what makes us who we are right it's unfortunate absolutely absolutely it's called life right yeah absolutely you have to take it right yes whether we like it or not right whether we like it or not how is your overall health we talked a little bit earlier about you need your diabetic medicine this evening but overall how's your health when it comes to diabetics i sometimes wonder if doctors don't just tell you your diabetic slowly you'll have to go back into three months and get a prescription i find it very difficult to sit and listen to the doctor telling me i'm seriously ill when there's no signs and symptoms so they've actually said you're seriously ill they consider a person who's got diabetes to be seriously ill right but that person's gonna do signs of symptoms at least i don't have any signs and symptoms there are some diabetes who have to stab themselves with insulin there's something like that dave clark's like that is he yeah he has to do that but you don't have to no i just take a pill in the morning okay other than the diabetes that they say you have well any other issues medically that you need prescriptions for no i i go prescription for the red and black capsules for acid reflux okay because the reason i got that was because i was eating loads and loads and loads of tums and holidays you know these little tablets you get for indigestion yes and i was eating them like crazy and i thought that can be good for you because if you were calcium yep you'll be getting your body all clogged up with chalk so that's why i got the prescription for the acid vitamins okay any but i don't consider that a serious problem no no no and i am it's more to me it's just like in the chest is there any other prescriptions that you're on or that you need no i take an aspirin a day for me to think my blood okay and i've been doing this since i had a stroke in 2000 okay i take the tribute one in the morning one at night for the diabetes okay and i take one of these other pills i kind of remember it's called one of these capsules for acid reflux okay that's all i think okay perfect good stuff right well and like i said we have your medications here you will get your medications okay um do you have any injuries that i should be aware of anything that needs our attention the detective is bringing up a past domestic partner something that watson undoubtedly thought was private knowledge this has to cause some level of worry seeing how much the police are able to dig up in such a short amount of time no no okay give any injuries i can't see that you know sometimes people come in and they have stitches and it's covered up by clothes and stuff i bruise very easily okay because of the blood thinners yeah and the diabetes yeah it breaks down like they got a little scratch it's very crazy and because of diabetes it takes forever for it to heal up yeah okay so i'm always having scratches braising scrapes bruises whatever all the time okay well none of it bothers me i'm used to it no and that's good i'm just making sure that because now you're here with us if you know i've sat with people before that tell me i have a bad knee i have a bad back i twisted my ankle these are things that i can't really see but i need to ask people to know well i i've got i've always had a bad guy okay but i don't do anything about it are you in any discomfort because you sit here with me right now [Applause] oh and those are the things i'm talking about right because i don't i don't think they can fix your back if there's something wrong with your back i don't think they can do anything ability mention it to the doctor okay yeah because i know he can't do anything about it just wasting his time and maintenance yeah well you strike me as a very kind of logical person would you describe yourself that way i think of myself as a very simple question logical and simple sometimes go hand in hand right simple not being a bad thing well i don't mean them as simple no no no i didn't take simple meaning no frills it's just me yeah no problems i know that's what i mean i'm not talking simple as in in uh cognitive functioning simple as in simple lifestyle no frills how's that yeah that's it would you describe yourself as pragmatic i'd say supposed to understand i think we all have just some extent i've dealt with some highly emotional people i'll tell you that i would not say they're pragmatic at all it's like if if uh you know if they had a hangnail the sky is falling and the earth is ending i don't describe those people as overly pragmatic or logical we've all met those type of people right highly emotional high maintenance you don't strike me as that right i think your lifestyle kind of no my legs are very simple very very simple and since you've retired what what are like gosh you've been retired what 20 years has it been that long okay 19 years unfortunately on this job that i do we see a lot of people that retire and then don't survive much into their retirement they you know just because of lifestyle choices you're 19 years into retirement which is awesome what do you what do you do what do you like to do for you that keeps you occupied i know you read i know you run a simple lifestyle but what are your hobbies what are your interests what do you do that babies over time for example when i retired at first i used to go walking all especially when i don't want to eat them right i used to walk all over the place and i used to cycle along the place okay but as i get older i'm not so able to thank you very much you're welcome as i get older the physical activity is sort of tapered off these medical questions are being asked to ensure that the suspect receives proper medical care to limit any accusations that might be made against the police later it also gives a history of any wound a suspect might have come in with so that way it is clear it did not occur during the incarceration for example when i came here at first i could walk away 20 or 30 miles a day without any trouble at all i used to go everywhere yeah all over the place just exploring because peterborough was new to me then yeah but as i said as i age and i get weaker and weaker and weaker i don't do so much physical stuff now in the summer time i love to be in my yard i'm in the yard as long as it's not raining i'm in my yard every day in the summer day in the winter time i try and do things catch up with things that got neglected during the summer because obviously in the yard yeah and then i get called some stuff like that right what what's your yard when you say you're out in the yard what are you doing oh all sorts of things i'd like to use this as absolutely yeah put a little water in there yeah um all sorts of things for example i used to cut my grass with a lawnmower and then i would find that i would spend more time going right around the yard trimming from the edge that the lawnmower can't reach do you understand what i mean and i thought this is crazy so i put a concrete i drug a little trench right around my house about six inches deep and about four inches wide and i put concrete in it so i've got a concrete lip right around my house okay so now when i cut the grass i put a lot more wheels on the concrete thing and i don't have any edges to turn around the house uh so that was successful i thought it saved me a lot of work so i put [Music] under my fence i put a chain link fence in my i got big pieces of wood and put them underneath so now i can run the lawn mower i've got maybe let's say it's a 10 inch piece of wood and i've got it under the fence there's five inches this side and five inches that side of it i can now run the one more along this piece of wood and that saves me having to trim the edges right there so gotcha okay but there's there's so many edges you still have to trim you know i haven't got i haven't got this all done it's not a complete science yet it's not it's it's a work in progress and i have to clean the gutter something to clean and leads to that gutters and they have a big floor bed you know what they call the boulevard this is an area eight feet wide between the sidewalk and the street well it was such a master grass it's usually grass but this grass was such a mess which is full of weeds and it didn't matter what it did or how much i spent on it or how much time i get i couldn't get nice grass here the fact that he used to go for walks is interesting since the body of fredette has yet to be found this shows that he may have known of a good location to dispose of her so i decided to just dig it up and make a flower bed so i went to the city and asked them if they thought this would be okay if they had any problems with that and they said no they didn't have a problem as long as i didn't plant trees because they didn't want the roots to go down and interfere with the pipes or under the ground so so now i have a huge flower bed the stretch is about maybe 40 feet by 8 feet and that keeps me busy even just weeding it keeps you what are you planting it what what are you doing yeah but what kind do you like perennials yeah well i wouldn't i would stop this inexpensive and easy maintenance yeah okay is there a fall prep that's involved in that with perennials like i i'm not familiar with perennials a lot like so what kind of perennials would you plant oh i guess snowball bushes yeah because pirate brushes i've got peony roses and i've got poppies and other things i don't even know the name of that okay but they come up a few years i've also got lots of irises and lilies i've got a big strip of fibrous season lilies right up the whole length of this thing yeah uh in nepal i cut them over over the ground and then cut just about everything off at the ground to get ready for winter yeah yeah and do you find does any of the uh city applications like salt and sand and calcium that they put on does it hurt it at all or do you have to do anything it doesn't help no i because i'm just thinking it's the boulevard right they're plowing right onto it oh yeah yeah yeah do you have to do anything special in the spring to bring it back together no i usually i usually put something down either i usually mix my own soil for example i'll buy a big thing a peat moss and a big thing alone and a big thing of top soil and i also recycle my tea leaves okay so i get some of this all these things in a big container and i mix them all up and make my own cups on it okay and then in the in the spring i'll put something when i think it's necessary particularly near the road where the snowplow so we should yeah because the soil for maybe a couple of feet at least from the curb it's just like grit you know the grit that they mix with the salt yeah so it's just it's just it's not like soil at all it's just like a great yeah so i always put something down there to try and help the soil it's because of all the stuff they're putting on the streets right so you write the sand the grit all that kind of stuff absolutely how much how much do you smoke still i don't smoke a lot no no so what would you say in a day you would smoke 10 10 cigarettes a day yeah okay and i drink every day but i do drink a lot what are you drinking i have an appearance before my supper usually about three or four o'clock yep and i have a glass of red wine with my something and that's the east end of my drinking so if you ask me if i drink i i would have to say i drink every day but i'm still as far as i'm concerned i'm not a drinker but there's a big difference between somebody who drinks every day in the sense of just in front of a television occupying themselves with a box of beer or a bottle of whiskey versus a wine with dinner it's very common for people to sit and have wine with dinner that's a very common thing i got about six or eight bottles of liquor yeah scotch rye brown gin yeah just sitting up in my house they've been there for at least 20 years and i never touched the them i have it is usually is where i've been coming across the border and i get a discount on it so i i buy in something yeah i don't buy it because i'm going to drink it i just buy it because i'm getting but you don't need it i've got dozens of boxes and t-bikes dozens of boxes they won't go bad i know so i know that's right and if you recycle it i mean like t so that's not really buying something that's not of anything no iso and i buy far more than i could ever used well do you ever go to costco in town here no i've been in it yeah but i don't have a membership so i couldn't buy anything that's kind of the idea at costco everything you buy is in bulk yeah you can't buy one tube of toothpaste it's like a pack of three or a pack of six or something right so same sort of idea but but i think it's really meant for families yeah um yeah i mean that's the value in it right you're buying in bulk as opposed to if you're buying for yourself right just because you're cooking you live alone buying food it's kind of difficult yeah for example i can't buy celery watson rambles on about his garden which would be of more interest if fredette had been poisoned rather than bludgeoned but if one is paying close attention his statement also gives a good clue about his general physical ability although he has tried to imply that his fitness level has decreased over the years anyone who does regular yard work can tell you that it takes a decent amount of strength and stamina because i would never eat the celery before it would go by it would go bad long before i could eat it yeah but you like celery i really like it yeah when lisa and i were together what we used to do is we'd buy i'd buy a salad and give her a hug and she'd buy a cucumber and give me half the pickle and that way we were these these things that we couldn't eat by ourselves we were able to eat by saying you know well you know that kind of makes more sense because you're right like i i think of me and my situation got to buy a lot of food because a lot of it gets eaten yeah one person a whole stalk of celery would go bad so you and liz would share it and you each get celery but it gets used up yeah that makes sense yeah it's actually kind of a smart way to do it yeah you know i'm talking about that i i don't know yeah you probably don't know peyton street payne street yeah where island yeah i know where you live i've been here it's a very very short stream but just one wall and i don't know how many houses are like maybe 16 or something houses okay one nice dream there's one two three four there's over eight elderly people who live alone just on your street and do you know them all no well no not well but i don't think to myself we have got eight people getting in the car go to the grocery store buying groceries going home fixing our meal and they ate houses wouldn't it be wonderful with some way we could get these eight people to join forces and make one meal for the eight of them and buy a buy one groceries per day do something kind of like a commune but of course people people keep to themselves they wouldn't want to get interested in that but i often think that that would be an interesting thing well now the other part with yeah i agree with you it's just you probably like certain foods and other people may not like them yeah that would be a problem but it's it's like it's smart thinking absolutely um maybe you can start up a little business get everybody going right [Music] yeah are they are they older than you younger than you i honestly don't well the lady next door is definitely younger than me the lady next to her she's probably about my age there's a new lady across the street she's probably around my age there's an old guy al nison or something his name is and he's probably my age there's grace up at the corner she's probably my age so apart from the woman next door who i think i would guess is about 55 okay apart from her all these other people are very my age okay i would guess yeah you almost like need like a one central food service shopping and then kind of divide up the common things that you all use right like you at least used to do yeah you and two other neighbors could share ahead of lettuce or stalk a celery or something but how long were you at least together overall from the fall of 2011 until the 20th of april to 2014. so from the fall of 2011 until april the 20th you said 2014. for the first time watson has brought up fridat's name as he describes how they would trade vegetables he makes their relationship sound cozy and domestic which is at odds with some of his recovered letters to her so three-ish years the reason i'm so sure about the day we split up with it's my birthday the 20th of april yeah and that's the breakup date yeah that's not fun you know why we broke up no because i was reading jeans you broke up because you were wearing jeans yeah you got to explain that one to me well i was to go to her place we were going to go for some right and when i went i was wearing jeans and she said she didn't want me to wear jeans she wanted me to wear pants and this i couldn't understand this because she always wanted me to be dressed up like a tailor's dummy in order to dress shirt at the time just like you exactly like this you're calling me a taylor's dummy it's okay but anyway all goldbee boys that when we went out and family the family never wearing suits or ties or shoes and yes but when we all wore standard peterborough dress which is t-shirts and jeans right so i had these jeans on and they were purple in ice jeans they weren't scruffy ragged and they're almost new yeah perfect conditions and i had a brand new t-shirt on perfect condition perfectly clean and so i thought i was presentable and i thought it was just as well as her son and her son-in-law and our grandkids because they were all in teams of teachers so i i didn't think it was a problem but she got real mad about that that's why you broke up where did you go that day like i went home no no but like you said everybody else was wearing jeans and t-shirt you were wearing jeans and a t-shirt so where did everybody go like was it a party for you because it's your birthday it wasn't just my no it wasn't just my birthday oh okay i think it was her son's birthday i'm not sure but it wasn't just for me right no you see the thing is three or four weeks they seem to have some sort of compulsion to have a fight now we had no serious problems right she was comfortably off and comfortably off she owned her own home on paper i own my own home wallpaper she owned her car paper i own my car people no religious problems he wasn't religious i was nervous no political problems he wasn't a political person and not a political person no family problems because i have no family at all so she didn't have to worry about me paying alien money or child support or anything else like that right i had absolutely no family problems and her family seemed to like me and i certainly got unwell with all her family didn't have any problems at all with her family so with no family problems so as far as i was concerned there was not a serious problem between us at all because of this in this compulsion to fight she would have to dream up the most stupid trivial jump you could imagine to have a fight now in the early days when she started this i would argue with her but very soon realized that a waste of time argument because she just would not listen right so what i did was when i saw this fight coming and i could see it coming after i'd been with her so long i could see this coming that i knew it was good right so what i did i would just go home okay and i don't think she liked that because then she'd nobody anyway i used to just leave the house and go home so even the ladies he said she started fighting you don't no believer anyway this day i'm talking about 20th of april she was annoyed because i was very insane so i saw it coming and i just got up and i left and i was getting in my car and i had my bum on the seat and my right boot on the floor but my left boot was still outside the car and she kind comes storming out after me and she grabbed the cargo and started buying the car door to try and break my leg between the car frame and the door so anyway eventually i was able to keep the door from banging my leg and uh i told her just to go in and leave me on one and she went inside and i went home yeah what other things one time she had to chain a teapot and i used to 18. and one time i was watching the tea party and i got a little chicken and a tiny little chip like that had no bearing on the teapot or however water if it didn't work or how it poured around it had no bearing at all on the function of this teapot uh god you think i didn't think i had demolished that urges that nonsense that fighting that tim terrible temple yeah and always violence with the temple you know you say violence with [Music] milk and it was full but it had been opened and another time she threw that at me that'll give you an idea how when she got into this temper does she seem to lose it yeah do you know what i mean for example too it's me who would say to myself do i want to throw this card and look at her and i've got milk all over the bloody place that i'm going to have to clean up i don't think so she didn't think like that she would just let play she didn't give her [ __ ] for her what happened it was like she was out of it and then would she come back into it like would she i always did i took home oh okay but you know i was just it's the simplest things if i put a plate in the dishwasher now i have never in my life had a dishwasher i don't know dishwashers from my wall on the ground i know nothing about these horses right if i do a plane and this horse is wrong later oh my god the thing is murder or something says and it's because we didn't have a serious problem at all right that she had to pick on these really stupid things that she wanted to have a friend why do you think she wanted to have a fight with her there seemed to be some sort of compulsion okay everything could be going along just beautiful she's happy i'm happy we're madly in love but three or four weeks boom and then after that's finished and we're back in love before she's happy i'm happy really right for three or four weeks and whenever the fights would happen and you would leave who would make up that was a problem was it that's why she went to these other guys tell me about that why did she go to these other guys you need to ask her that but here's a woman who told me she loved me i was the greatest thing in sleep oh boy i was a keeper we were going to spend the rest of our life together and then we'd have a fight and i'd go home and both of us i think were probably too stubborn and too pig-headed and too proud to make amends which is what we should have done right anyway in no time at all after i'd gone home and we split down she was i don't know her boyfriend okay uh that relationship with the boyfriend didn't work they only lasted them two or three months maybe okay and we could buy it together again excuse me then after we get back before we go back together we sat down in another talk and i said obviously if we're going to get back together we've got to change our ways watson is trying his best to make fradette sound violent and unhinged painting himself to be a long-suffering victim he's careful so far to describe private moments that can't be disputed he seems clever enough to be leaving the potential to say later that it was an accident during self-defense and that he was scared to confess if we get back together and we don't change anything we're going to get the exact same result we're going to split up again right oh yes you're raised she said we had broke change for all year after that right she didn't change at all she couldn't i just i don't think it's in her nature to change i did everything i could to make her happy i covered her hair i cleaned her shoes i pressed the pants i sewed them down for i grew a moustache form but i feel like a mustache but i grew a moustache for her i did yard work for her i did housework is down my hands and knees scrubbing the kitchen floor the bathroom floor cleaning the toilet cleaning the tubs around i couldn't tell you the number of things i did to try and make her happy right anything she asked me to do i did only one thing one time i just refused to point blank and that was the only time i ever refused her anything from entertainment what was that well she wanted to go to quebec to visit relatives in quebec and i didn't want to go to quebec because i don't know my relatives and i don't speak french so i figured i'd be just like thought you know i'd be useless i'd just be taking along right i wouldn't be able to engage in conversation or anything else so anyway oh she went on and on and on and on i said okay i'll go take a baby so we're going to go to quebec she wants me to take my car and i said no i'm not taking my car this when they go to go back his shoes has got relatives in quebec i don't want to go take a bag and i'm slim enough when they use my car to go to quebec and that was another big carry on she didn't want to use her car police never liked to use her car if she could use somebody else's car because then somebody else was paying for the gas and she didn't have to pay for the gas gotcha so whenever we went anywhere we went in my car but that was one time when i just dug my heels in and i said no i'm not taking my car if i never went to cambodia i'm not taking electives so we took her car and how did that whole trip go very good okay good but lei i suspected i was completely irritated i couldn't engage in the combat you know she was taking me to see all these relatives all over the place you know and they were happy to see her and happy to be chat and it was for his own friends and i don't speak kids so from my point of view it's really just a waste of time yeah but i think maybe she wanted to show off her new boyfriend to a relative cyber well when was this trip how long ago oh geez i can't remember well just if you said new boyfriend i'm thinking like 2011 2012 nobody it doesn't matter anyway i mean you went and it wasn't you thought it wasn't it wasn't 2011. okay so is lee's was she a drinker no no so no no alcohol issues oh absolutely that's another thing we had no alcohol problems because i don't drink she didn't drink and neither of us do drugs so we know drug problems there was no one serious thing where we had to conflict so then i'm going to ask you in your opinion what was her problem i have no idea no problems no issues you're doing everything for um you guys are in a committed relationship you love each other is that right he paints a picture of a saintly hen-pecked partner but there has never been anyone to come forward to corroborate this side of fredette in this way watson may be laying it on a bit too thick an occasional outburst as he describes would be one thing but something that happens every few weeks without fail is a bit much to be believed but she picks these silly fights i loved her very very much you loved her did she love you i don't know did she ever tell you she did all the time yeah yeah but you can't you can't go by that i put a lot of women tell me they look me and they're sleeping with somebody else they say have you ever told somebody you love them when you didn't really and you just didn't want to hurt their feelings i don't think so okay no because i mean it can happen i agree with you right sure yeah okay i don't take relationships lightly you would never in a million years get me doing it just get me doing that one night right it's just not gonna happen well over the course of your lifetime and i don't need to go into the details of them how many relationships have you had i've had maybe half a dozen relationships but none of them were short-term relationships except one word a woman turned out to be alcoholic but i didn't know when i met her i didn't know she was alcohol right yeah but the relationships i've had in my lifetime they've all been long-term very serious committed relationships right so when you were with lise is it accurate fair for me to say that you weren't stepping out on her you were faithful to her i never even thought of mistake are you crazy i'm not laid out no and that's what i'm gathering right what about her i never well she did step a couple of times right so that's what i'm saying like what she is faithful is committed to you i can't tell you that all i can tell you is she told me she loved you what about this um unattached club that she's part of that's a nice place is it a very nice place okay well run very well so what's the idea behind it like just is it a like a social it's just a social club where people go to dance okay and it's called unattached but natural factor but 95 percent of the people who go there are attached but they're very very few times people go there so they're attached but do they go there with their partner or they're going there no matter lots of them are husbands and wife or they're in a serious relationship oh and they're just going for a social they're going to dance socialize oh and that's very nice how did you meet liz i met her there okay yeah so who was the um the catalyst if you will is to get you two together you saw her she saw you how did that all happen i don't remember i guess i asked her to come sit at my table of course she did and we went from there but did you notice about her i'm sure you're not asking every lady to sit at your table so why liz why why her oh she seemed like a nice lady yeah and she had a nice accent the insistence that they had no serious conflict is being repeated a little too much to appear natural especially since the detective hasn't asked him any questions connected with the murder yet and i thought she might be interested to talk to and things just kind of went on from there [Music] so how like did she actually say the words to you that she didn't want you to wear jeans and that's why she was so upset with you on the 20th of april oh yeah she said she told me previously to wear punch and i do not remember her telling me to wear pants i honestly do not remember her telling me that but she said she had told me previously that she want me to wear pants but to me just so trivial it's so unimportant i can't see how anybody could even get upset with something like that if there were scrubby genes or something all torn and raggedy and dirty and everything then i could understand i've been upset but these were purple and nice jeans not very old at all and they were just don't keep just being washed pressed so i i just couldn't see my scope said breaking up that way has to be tough for a silly issue like that does that make sense there were also the issues all silly issues did you try and get back together with her after that no no that was it because that's what april 2014 i should have i didn't and she should have i see today that's what i was saying i'm probably just too big-headed stubborn who were too proud do you miss her but oh god well we we kept in touch a lot after that oh okay so it's not like it was cold well very shortly after we broke up she started going with ben okay uh so then you know question is getting back together again did you know she had an appointment do you know who this ben guy is oh yeah at least these guys she went with them guys that they come okay that's got to be hard like were you still going to the club after then for the socials on your own oh yeah yeah was that hard seeing her there with other people well we had split up completely yeah at first when we stood up we still saw easter you know she would come to my place i ever go to her place and we were friends yeah and we would dance together and i certainly made it but it seemed to me i don't know why maybe maybe the boyfriend didn't want her to be friends with me i don't know okay anyway we finished over here she had complained to the police for me right because i was mad one time and i wrote a little note too and it was not a nice note it was a nasty note and i regret very much having said that but still there's nothing i can do about that there anyway when she got this noise she complained to the place that this came from and told me that i shouldn't be bothering her right and i said that was fine and then uh so after that we went talking to each other we were very friendly do you think i could have another cigarette well that's what you do mine i have my own cigarettes you know but it won't let me happen gotcha you're doing smoke i haven't smoked in a while gave it up i can sit here now and it doesn't even bother me like i don't have the desire for it how did you do that did you do any special sort of thing did you get hypnotized or something no i just decided you know what when i had kids i just decided that's not really what i want them to see and uh it was just more you know what i just don't need to do this anymore and i just went cold turkey that was it it wasn't you know not easy not fun but um i'm glad i did it and now i'm at a point where i can be around it i can sit with people and i don't have any desire like i'm good that's amazing yeah so because i quit smoking once long enough and i quit for for two years i think and i went home to scotland for vacation and it was new year's in new year's in scotland there's something else again something like new year's together right everybody's partying and drinking and going crazy and somebody said to him i won't just have a cigarette you know one cigarette so i took a cigarette and that was me right back yeah it happened but you know what really bothered me when i stopped smoking i never lost the desire for the whole two years i wanted to school oh really yeah you still had to create everything yeah and that made it really difficult see i lost the craving and and some people associate it with like if they have a coffee or a tea they sometimes it becomes habit forming right yeah and i just yeah i i don't really have any special recipe how i did it i just did it and yeah well when i get when i question earthquake cold turkey i just gave up and i think i could have been successful if i hadn't been for this constant learning watson has to be careful with these questions because he did not take the break up well he wrote for debt several letters however at this time he's not sure exactly what evidence the police has so he's trying to make sure that if he can't back out of a statement he can come up with a plausible explanation every day learning to have a cigarette it just wouldn't go away there's worse things you could be doing well i've been smoking since i was 10 years old and i'm in reasonable shape 66 years of smoking there you go roughly well take away the two years so we're down to 64. yeah yeah when you know this investigation is you know it's ongoing in that but when was the last time that you saw linds when's the last time you would have seen her the saturday before she disappeared so the sun okay so she see they've taken my calendar if i had my calendar let's see if i can assist you with something here i don't have your calendar that's not what i'm looking for but any calendar that's what i'm just looking for okay we could even work right from today well i have a calendar here so let me find it you said this is the 22nd perhaps guessing that they might have seen or been told by family about the note watson decides to bring it up himself he describes it as being done in the heat of anger and something he regrets but one has to wonder if he regrets writing it or regrets the fact that it is evidence of his true feelings is all day so seven from 22 is the 15th [Music] the last time i saw these that was certainly the 15th if you've got a calendar there you can check that [Music] because she said that please only a second time right have you spoken to uh in microsoft there we go so that's a calendar for november 2014. okay so that's the issue sure the last day they saw they were here on the 27th the last day they saw these was last saturday okay are you sure sure i'm sure but as i said we did not speak to each other or dangerous or even look at each other because have you spoken to you maxwell i haven't no oh well he's a policeman he came to see me a couple of times okay and the second thing he came he made it absolutely clear and i had nothing which he was doing uh so i took his words to heart and i never just never even looked at them never looked at what ben or oh sir because he's the one that came and spoke to you and said after the letters is that what you're talking about is that what you're referring to yeah it might may help you to speak to him well he's a very nice child yeah he's with the peterborough service here yeah okay have you spoken to [Music] i just got here today oh i ran the first person you spoken to you're the guy oh okay i'm going to ask you why how are you so sure that's the last time you saw it and i'm just wondering in your mind why you think it was that day because i saw every saturday we both went to the density center she went missing on the 12th so is it possible it's a different saturday that you saw her i saw this saturday before she disappeared okay that's fair then so what i'm just telling you is that on the 12th is the day that she went missing so that we know for sure okay so if you said you saw her this saturday before she went missing is it possible then that you're talking about the eighth it must be okay it must be i just want to i just want to make sure you know because you said the 15th which i understand but we know she went missing on the 12th so if it's the saturday if it's one saturday before which is what you recall that would take us to november the 8th does that make sense yeah okay so perhaps this is the day we're talking about yeah okay gotcha and is that at the dance yeah i lost a week somewhere okay well do you remember veterans day do you remember remembrance day you know i remember they come and took me away on this day yes the 13th they took me away and they kept me a week right and they let me use this day can i just they let me register when you say they let you out you're referring to what you said they came and took you away what are you talking about like what are you referring to they came on thursday too and they spoke to me for hours yes and then they took my way about the sixth latter roughly okay and put me in a hotel okay i see what you're talking about now they kept me in the hotel from there to here and then yesterday right and here we are today the 22nd they arrested me today giving such a definite answer is risky because just one unexpected witness could put a hole in this story once that happens it's hard to maintain credibility and more likely watson will be tripped up under further questioning yes so i spent the night from thursday to friday and the night from freddie to say that here home yes so this is your members day you remember they came and they asked you to leave on the 13th this day yeah that's because on the 12th she's missing i don't know what she's supposed to do no no that's what i'm telling you i don't know i don't even know how you know that well i'll tell you how i know i'll explain it to you okay but i i'm just if we work backwards like you said then if you recall seeing her last on the saturday before she went missing that would be the eighth the simple thing is both she and i went to the dance every saturday gotcha we weren't talking about dancing with having any sort of communication whatsoever but we were there yeah and i'm okay with that i don't have anything okay so if you saw her this saturday before if she's missing here obviously she wouldn't have to dance that night no did you i don't think i went to the dance that night no i didn't go on the 15th yeah on the 15th you didn't go no well i the police had taken me away right you were in a hotel yeah yeah okay yeah okay all right so the the eight that the dance after the eighth which is the saturday did you see her the first okay did you see her any time after the saturday of the day okay so that's the last time yeah okay got it okay what do you know that lawyer told me and speak to you yeah you don't have to i told you that at the beginning as well yeah yeah you are the one person that knows lee's better than anybody right now i don't know i don't know about that well i'm just talking about in that you know you did have a relationship with her oh yes would you generally speak in a very good relationship i i totally i believe what do you think happened to her why would why would something i have no idea why would somebody do this to her i don't know i didn't know she was involved with other men right i even suggested to one of the policemen that could have been a woman bacon who knows who knows what happened yeah who are these other men she's involved with i don't i don't know ella manchester i just know for a fact dave clark and ben carmen dave clark she was going with very soon after we broke up the first time then come and she was going with very soon after we broke up the second time so up until here where we know she went missing was she seeing anybody that you know of she is seen that still she's been seeing ben since very shortly about to be broken which was 20th of april yes and that's yeah forgive me for my language but you know what that's kind of shitty what what'd she get it only in the sense that you know what you jump from one relationship right to the next what does that say about you and your relationship that's just my opinion i just put that out there i probably shouldn't even have said that but that i just the way i kind of look at it okay you know i'm going to tell you if i live to be 192 i will never understand women and it may be that that's why i'm a bachelor because i take things very seriously yeah things like relationships and promises and views i couldn't get married i couldn't have the vote to be faithful to this woman for the rest of my life so you could or couldn't get married i could not get married because i couldn't take that phone but why if you take things very serious would you not be faithful for the rest of your life to that i'm sure this helped me try but i'm a human being and when i was younger i was as only as a nice guy so although i would maybe take a birthday guarantee that i would be able to keep it and if i couldn't keep about i would not make that i take those very very seriously did you two ever talk about getting married was there ever any talk about that no no i find i'm just speaking generally yeah there is no way to get around admitting to having seen her on saturdays since that was very public and could be confirmed by several witnesses women elderly women like my age group they've got their own home it's people they've got their own car they've got their family they've got their kids their grandkids they don't need a relationship they don't need a man in their life right especially in some cases where the women have had a bad relationship before right and i've got out of it the last thing they want to do is jump from the frying pan into the fire by having another relationship with a guy yeah so it seems to me that the average woman in my age group is simply not interested in having a serious relationship because they've got no need for it in some cases if it's a widow you're talking about it if they ever think they're dead scared of getting into some kind of relationship that might jeopardize their dependence pension that they get yeah they don't want to jeopardize that because as far as they're concerned they're putting their hands on two in the first it seems to me that attitude is sort of but if it's not broken don't fix it they're quite happy they've got their family their kids their grandkids and their friends in their social circles they really don't need anything else well and what's your attitude about that because you're also of that age group you have your own house that's paid for you don't have any headaches no but i don't like them in as much as i have no company would you have liked to have gotten to a point with her that the two of you lived together i wouldn't live together no because if you live together under the laws in ontario you're automatically married pretty awake despite that side of it you're right okay and what you're thinking but how do you how would you see the long-term relationship going then just each living in your own home but being committed to each other well that's the way it was going and it was going okay yeah okay well that makes sense then yeah what with this comment the detective is attempting to make watson feel like he is sympathetic and that the detective may feel watson was justified he's specifically using watson's very strong belief in faithfulness to accomplish this technique this could possibly lead a suspect to say more than they intended i can only tell you about this from my point of view because i got no idea what elise was thinking of what was going through her mind or anything else you're right and i can only ask you from your point of view because i haven't had an opportunity to talk to her well you should talk to other people who get their views oh we are absolutely this investigation has taken on a whole new direction now that we're here okay um i guess you have to start from scratch yeah yeah there's a lot of stuff we're but and there's some things i want to share with you here today that we're doing so you understand what's going on because we have uh we do things very different okay and we have access to a lot of things that we're now going to utilize because this is make no mistake this is in our opinion a death investigation a homicide okay we believe she's dead okay uh people don't just drop off the face of the earth and cease to exist there's been no activity on her bank accounts uh nobody's heard from her nobody's seen her like there's a lot of other things we'll talk about but that's just not normal and you know that right and so we have other things that i'll discuss with you that logically when we look at it she's dead and i know that so you know and we believe that somebody's responsible me yeah yeah yeah but if chad's been rewarded well those are the charges before the courts yeah and i'm going to explain to you why so you understand why okay but um you're right i haven't had a chance to talk to her but we are now talking to a lot of people and getting a big picture of what's going on here and i got a lot of other things that we're working on now too well this is exactly what the peterborough please told me what did they tell you well i was speaking to this guy dan lemay okay and i was saying to him well did you speak to ben oh no i'm not speaking to ben somebody else was tweeted back and i said about did you speak to dave clark oh no i'm not speaking today but somebody else is due to death and said well did you do this oh no i know you know it seems to be everything's all mixed up and i'm saying to myself can you not have the one guy go and speak to everybody and then they maybe understand what the hell's going on they still have half a dozen different detectives speaking to half a dozen different people i have a team of investigators here now they are speaking to ben they are speaking to dave they are speaking to her daughter they are speaking to her son they are speaking to her grandkids they are speaking to people at her work they are speaking to neighbors they are canvassing the neighborhoods um i have officers down at the center of forensic sciences working with the scientists saying hey these are the exhibits we submitted get working on them get it done there's other techniques that we're working on here right now that i have officers assigned to exclusively just make those calls and get those things done okay this has now become what we call a joint forces investigation where we are the lead okay with the peterborough please yeah that's why we're in their building okay because it all started in their city but we have now taken over the lead and we have brought in our own investigators um and things are like as you and i are sitting here right now there's all kinds of things that are happening there's all kinds of things that are being done period and some of them i'm going to explain to you and show you so you understand what's going on okay um because this this just took way too long way too long it's taken too long this has taken way too long way too long i mean really she goes missing on the 12th and and there's all kinds of stuff that's happened there in the meantime so you know nobody even came to you and got a formal statement from you in the meantime i mean you were with her for years like that shouldn't happen okay but but as a result we we got involved we we uh we got some results back right away the police leaders why do you think that they would do that i had no idea presumably somebody must have told me stuff okay well this day right here bothers me yes they could have discovered they're not going to discover that you cannot get tunnel vision ever okay well at the peterborough police definitely had tunnel vision here believe me we uh one of the biggest things i've been doing this job for 25 years you cannot get tunnel vision because the moment you get tunnel vision the blinders are on it's like that racehorse going down the track with the blinders that's exactly what this is like here's the way i approach my investigations okay there's an interesting juxtaposition between how seriously he takes commitments and the reasons he gives for not wanting to be married fredette may have wanted to get married and got tired of him never wanting to take that step or he may have been holding her to a strange set of standards that she didn't agree with the evidence will take us where we need to be that make sense to you well it depends what you call that i'm going to share some of it with you okay but evidence will always take you where you need to be now sometimes evidence can come up that we think is evidence it could be a red herring but then you got to walk down that path you got to investigate it you got to exhaust it and then make a decision and say nope that's not important back away as this investigation is going on right now we're going down several different paths clearing and making sure we've covered off everything properly you have to be make no mistake these are serious serious allegations period somebody's life has been taken we don't take that lightly we in fact i can't think of anything more serious to be working on yeah okay in her memory for her for her her kids for her grandkids for her family for the community for everybody that's missing her right now and the thing is we still don't have her body well i'll tell you there's no dismission of more than that i believe you i believe you right and that's tough i mean you were with her for years yeah you you knew her intimately yeah i'll never get that chance to talk to her to have a conversation with her to hear her accent i'll never ever have that opportunity you did yeah right and i believe you when you say that you miss her dearly i do i sit here and look at you i'm going to say you're still in love with her yeah but the problem with me is being completely alone i think that tends to make me different from other people in what way in as much as other people have their family their friends their relations and uh the social activities they do they have lots of things going on in their life yeah my life is very very quiet there's nothing going on in my life in fact i was just sent a friend that stopped my friend stopped by yesterday to speak to me and i was just sent her my big problem is i spent 95 of my time in this house alone so no matter what crime would be committed in peterborough i could not give the police an alibi i see what you're saying yeah the only time i know in my house is if i go for groceries which usually takes just half an hour talks or if i go to the doctors which is only once every three months or something the vast majority of my time is spent in the house alone it's not too bad in the summer because i'm always working in my yard in the summer i'm in my yard every day in the summertime okay but in you know okay i'm going to ask you something because i think this is something we can work on here there's some techniques that i have things that we're looking at that even though somebody says i'm in my house 95 of the time alone i don't have an alibi yeah there's some techniques that i can utilize that will assist me in whether that's the truth or not well it's funny you say that because when mr lamey was talking to me for hours he raised one or two questions and it just so happens that i'm a real recycling nut i recycle everything that can be recycled are you cool no you're good i'm okay okay i saw you crossing your arms i was going to put the heater on so you're recycling that i even recycled my grocery receipts okay and it just so happened that this mr renee was talking to me about it was or what i was doing and i was trying to do it then i was telling him but i don't think he believed me and then it just dawned on me and i went into where i keep this recycled paper yeah and i dug up receipts and there's receipts proved to him that i was where i said i was okay so so guys it's a chance in a million dollar person to keep the groceries store so what is it you were like what were you talking about what was the receipt for just put bananas or bread and stuff like that just something crucial he had asked me where i was and what day was he talking about and then i can't remember but anyway it's just going to be the receipts i recycle gotcha and i read and i got a couple of receipts and these proved to him that i watched what i said and was when i saw them oh okay i see what you're saying but the chances are that have that happened in a million people who keeps her grocery sheets i don't nobody keeps her groceries well if i was okay so i mean i know she went missing on this day the 12th which is a wednesday where were you that day that i think that's the day he was talking about him okay um and and i can i can certainly go and get that receipt did you give it to him or did he make a copy of it no i don't know but if if the 12th is the day you're talking about are you saying you went grocery shopping on the 12th i went to a bunch of different places okay what about uh if if i have stuck together i usually draw a little list and try and make a route of it so i'll go here first and that day i had going to farmboy which is a grocery store yep but i didn't buy anything in farmboy so i didn't have a receipt okay because the thing i was looking for there they didn't have anyway from there i went to peterborough this week to get a copy of the newspaper okay and i went to a couple of other places where i did buy something and i did have receipts okay so while i couldn't prove that i'd been to one or two of these places i could prove that i had definitely been to one or two other places and are you referring to the 12th i can remember the wednesday i can't remember what it was we spoke for so long no but that's what i wanted to kill he came in and went right it was trying to help my wife and that's fair i understand so i i wanted to get my supper but i couldn't get my supper because they were right there in my face yeah so i didn't get any suffer that night but if i ask you now what do you remember the 12th i don't want to do that i'm not supposed to be speaking to you and you don't have to yes i know so so i don't think but here's the thing if you are grocery shopping on those days and you have some receipts which i'll check on but the other thing is you should be speaking to these other guys we are i have people here now doing it okay but you're speaking to dan lemay yes absolutely i had him called in today okay and don't forget in maxwell uh there's ian maxwell there's dan lemay there's uh these two boyfriends dave you spoke of and ben are being spoken to i've got her family in here right now if true this receipt would be an amazing coincidence most people who are usually alone don't have an alibi but they don't have the presence of mind to think of something like this watson may think it proves his innocence but it may up proving premeditation okay but they're nice kids they seem very nice yeah but the other thing i wanted to think about is on this day even though you didn't get a receipt you remember how i talked about the fact that there's cameras everywhere yeah even though you walked in a store and didn't buy something i'm gonna go pull the video because they keep the video for a while right i'll pull the video it shows you walking in even though you didn't buy something it validates what you're saying that reminds me the peterbilt police told me they had me on video at walmart and i said to them that is absolutely impossible because i have not been near one more yeah i don't know anything about that and they said well we've got a video or you're on the video and i said well i told you that can i see the video oh no we have no no who told you the serious thing about the police they want you to answer all their questions but they never ever answer your questions ask me a question i've answered your question so far today i'll answer the rest of them i'm talking about my experience for the police so far it's been anything but good it's been a very i'm gonna tell you right now i don't know anything about walmart first of all when they took me away on thursday they said oh just be for tonight you'll get back home tomorrow yeah tomorrow came i am all packed up in my hotel room ready to go they come to oh no you're not going home to her it'll be tomorrow so i get unpacked this goes on for a solid week lying to me every single day that stops looking be right in the eye and lie in the street as you like that stops today so the only thing that's going on in this room right now isn't your experience with the police has not been good especially this session you should see the mess of my house i want to share a couple of things with you to show you that i'm here to give you some info okay okay this isn't all about you know me wanting people from you you want you asked me a couple of things earlier and i want to address them for you okay you asked me how first of all how do we know she's even missing and when she went missing that's what you asked me right is that is that what you asked me earlier does that make sense no i just said yeah i didn't know at the time no no but i mean i'm telling you now from a police perspective as we move forward we know she's missing i've told you why in that there's been no activity on her bank account nobody has heard from her she hasn't phoned anybody she hasn't reached out to contact anybody her car has not moved it was like in her driveway she was there um family hasn't heard from her she hasn't made withdrawals on her bank she hasn't shown up for work um that's like somebody just dropped off the face of the earth and we all know people don't do that we are creatures of habit we have our routines right okay when you say to me how do we know some of these things and how can i draw the conclusion that i believe you know something bad has happened to her i want you to look at that picture okay now first of all let's start with this one where is that that's the driveway exactly okay and whose car is that that's her car right that's a new one pretty new yeah it looks fairly new right but here's the thing so what is it 43 000 for that car yeah it's got all the bells and whistles is that the one you drove to quebec oh no no no no no she had an old camera but it was in really good shape that's a nice car but she had a nice one with the camera and it was a rail okay so she got this one that is a nice car i agree with yeah yeah so one of the things i want you to notice there and i'm just telling you things that that i know from my observations now as we're investigating this right see that right there yeah that's blood okay um we'll start there okay but this is her house this is her entrance right it looks familiar to you right because you've been there before oh yeah absolutely um this watson speaks very concisely and coherently most of the time but whenever the detective tries to pin him down for a definite answer watson becomes vague and scattered and tries to direct the conversation down a different line he does this fairly well since most people are predisposed to assuming anyone over a certain age has lost some of their mental facilities is the back of her car yeah because see this little piece here yeah that would be along here or down this side see that yeah what's that that's blood okay um yeah so am i right yeah but from my standpoint between that at the front of the car and this at the back of the car that's that's what i would refer to as a significant amount of blood food please yeah foul play indicating absolutely right because that's not a cut finger no no that's not a stub tone that's significant okay there's a lot of things i can read into when i look at that okay so when i see those things then you look at that picture so you obviously know that that picture is along here now right which one see this picture here right where is that in relation to this this picture here is there exactly okay see her keys seen here and there's a sign of a struggle you can see how everything's kind of tossed up and there's the edging of the blood right there right yeah now that's not normal we know she didn't go in the house we know her things are lying there okay there's another picture which is along the edge here yeah that's her glasses lying on the ground it indicates a sign of a struggle tells us that there was a struggle there yeah okay and we've got the blood did you see our glasses over here right there that's our glasses that's her glasses right there okay so that indicates to me a sign of a struggle yeah um plus we've got the bleeding at the front of the car we've got the bleeding at the back of the car yeah and it's it's right at the entrance where she would be getting into her door how do i know that um this day is the day she went missing the 12th of november which is a wednesday she was working and she was working at walmart so we've already verified that she worked her shift that day and we verified what time she ended her shift and went home so we know that she was alive all day people spoke to her people saw her people interacted with her and people watched her leave work okay so we know she left and we presume because her car's in the driveway she eventually went home yeah makes sense yeah okay so that's how we know this day because on the next day the 13th she didn't show up for work number one which is unusual for her right she didn't go to work on the 13th so that caused people some concerns um family members didn't hear from her nobody could locate her and this is what people found when they went to her house so when you put she goes to work she leaves work she heads home people see this police arrive and see this we have evidence of blood she doesn't go to work the next day and from this day forward she's never been seen or heard from again so we can conclusively say that sometime during the evening hours of the 12th or into the early morning hours of the 13th yeah yeah something happened to her and that's what she went missing so that's how we know for that part of it makes sense you understand like investigatively wise how we're looking at it right so some of the things we're looking at is this i know that there was a struggle here i know that okay the blood tells me that the glasses the keys and the earring tell me there's a struggle there this is one of the things that we're now doing and it started today do you remember when 9 11 happened in the united states the twin towers got to terrorism okay ever since that day the united states department of homeland security nasa um the american military invested billions of dollars into satellite imaging and the reason they did that was to try and prevent the attack of you know terrorist activities in the future because one of the questions they had was how could we not see this coming how could we not see a rogue plane coming you know all these different things as in anything a lot of things that we do in the world are reactive to tragedies so they enhanced billions of dollars into satellite imaging and so what these satellites do now they're orbiting 24 7 and they're snapping pictures all the time we have realized that the detective is showing the crime scene which includes a good deal of blood watson who claims to have loved her seems oddly unmoved by the site law enforcement police only certain agencies have access to it we can access those satellite imageries by contacting the department of homeland security in the united states and we have to have what we call a criteria offense so it has to be serious treason homicides or attempt homicides they won't look at it for anything else okay we also have to be very specific and give them either an address and if we have an address obviously we can give them latitude and longitudinal coordinates you're smart man you understand what latitude and longitude is okay you know mnr was usually nine years ago absolutely right so that's why you would know about it to measure trees and forests and the makeup of the forest and the age of the trees and anything else even today with gps and plotting and gps coordinates gps coordinates still go right to latitude and longitudinal coordinates because in even in aviation right they still have to be able to fly over and find that spot on the earth because latitude and longitude stays consistent the world over that spot will always be there right started today the request has gone into the department of homeland security okay we provided them an address and we provided them with the latitude and the longitudinal coordinates for her house we know a struggle happened here on this driveway something happened okay when we put the request in what happens now is they punch those coordinates into the database access the satellite that was over the earth at that point in time and download the images okay they download the images images are forwarded to us we know when she left work so now we have kind of a starting point to say i don't need to see everything on the 12th i just need to see from say seven o'clock in the evening on so get me from seven o'clock in the evening all the way into the 13th the next day right i know in that time frame i will capture this struggle on the driveway okay request has gone in it's going to take time for me to get those pictures back because it's a massive database and the request has gone into the department of homeland security they will download the images they will send them to us and when that happens i will then have an opportunity to have an investigator sit and go through the images these images that come in are phenomenal because they're military grade okay they're it's it's based on nasa premises and so like i've had success in other cases where i've been able to focus down in on the make and model of a car the quality is that good okay that's one thing that's happening right now okay the other thing that's happening right now since we're here is i've been to her house i know where it's located okay and one of the things i know is that when i go to her house you say good pictures by the way they're not bad they're very good the quality of pictures that are going to come in off that satellite will make those look like child's play it's incredible what you're gonna get it's incredible what we can see do you think i could ask you for another second yeah absolutely i'll get you another cigarette there's a street view of where she lives okay where where's her house on there i wish they hadn't been in my garage i can assist you if you can't see her house would be is going to be where this green thing is what road does she live on venice board benchford exactly there's venice port right there this is a river road to river road in venezuela that's a very bad corner by the way i know i was there doesn't look like you'd be cornered thank you so here's the thing i went to her house i stood in her driveway i looked around what do you think i saw most people don't think of this type of surveillance when they are planning a crime watson doesn't appear worried but he may just be very good at bluffing big cemetery over here oh yeah highland park massive big gates yeah we used to be beautiful we used to go walk in there yeah it's beautiful yeah it's a beautiful spot right over here a couple of doors down from our house is a daycare being run out of the house right right over here is a big school just down the street yeah yeah yeah just down from the school before you get back to the intersection is a variety store convenience store what do all of those things have in today's day and age cameras yeah they all have cameras it's the world we live in right everybody has cameras now for security reasons insurance protect their own property trying to prevent vandalism schools new legislation was passed because of a couple of tragic incidents that happened where they installed cameras at all the schools that focus out on the streets and the crosswalks so that when kids are walking in case there's an accident in case there's an abduction we want to be able to see vehicles we want to be able to see people walking variety stores have cameras shooting out onto the street in the parking lots in case people grab things out of the store shoplifting and run away people arriving at the store for robberies break and enter stuffs this um cemetery uh the whole the whole laneway is is is cameron to capture vehicles coming in and out anybody that wants to do damage they have a beautiful big building in there um it's all camera right like it's just the world we live in this daycare oh my word cameras because they're they're caring for children yeah so you know for insurance reasons they have cameras there to in case you know abduction some parent shows up that's not supposed to show up a child wanders off at least you got something to start with right i have officers at every one of these locations as you and i speak accessing and downloading all the data for the 12th of november into the 13th of november because she lives right on that corner so now we're accessing all those cameras we're accessing everything okay now when i look at those cameras when i look at the satellite imagery that's coming in okay and and i that's why i want to ask you this question so on the evening of the 12th of november so we're getting into the night time after seven o'clock at night maybe even into the early morning hours of the 13th but we're talking about that wednesday night into the next day when she went missing is there any reason you can think of why when i download these images from all this video footage and have a look at it or when my satellite images come and arrive okay so any reason you can think of why i'm going to see you or your vehicle in that area and i just want to ask you that now because maybe there's some logical reason that you were there or in that area that i'm not aware of that we should talk about and clear up now so that i don't have to come back and do it later any reason you can think of why i'm going to see you in your vehicle [Music] no no okay and it's it's that's why i thought i'd ask now right because this is just a matter of probably hours away yeah right well according to you if you could admit what's that according to you you've got an end well uh it's just a question to take yeah it is a question of time right so but that's why i want to ask you if there's any reason nothing to say um is there any reason you can think of why we would even see you there i don't know what to answer any questions i told okay all right i just want you to understand that's one of the things we're working on okay so i wanted to give you some info i want to share with you yeah that's good okay because it looks as if you're definitely going to have this drug talk pretty soon the other thing that we're working on is you asked about your car okay you have a subaru what year is your car 2010 2010. yeah no it's a nice car it's in good shape the fuel consumption is terrible is it just awful okay which i suppose makes sense if a motor has got to drive four wheels it's going to use more gas than a motor this just has to drive two groups yeah are you aware and i'm sure you are because you're very very well read your smart bot planes that go down planes that go missing right i mean remember that air india jet that went down yeah and i don't think they've ever still recovered all or recovered the wreckage remember that one just passed this past summer i think it was cameras are a great resource but unfortunately they are not infallible sometimes the angle is wrong or the picture quality is poor other times the weather or an interruption of the power source renders them virtually useless there was one one down over lockerbie in the 1980s today haven't got that figured out here that's the rcmp that's what we've done but whenever a plane crashes and goes down what is the one thing that they that they want to recover first and foremost exactly why do they want the black box because it records the activity of the plane when it went down exactly were you aware that cars also have their version of a black box installed in the computer modules no i didn't know that okay they do so what happens is in serious cases like this when we seize a car forensically okay and we have to go through it forensically so you know we're looking for for blood and fibers and hair but when we suspect or believe that a vehicle has been utilized one of the things that we do is we do a forensic examination on the black box the computer module that's installed in the car that retrieves and holds data as to where that car's been it's like a built-in gps oh yeah okay it provides us with speed uh braking acceleration stops starts but it also provides us with coordinates okay and it's it's uh it's built right into the car dealers can access it us through our investigative tools now we can access the data as well okay um so that's one of the other things that's happening with your car right now yeah okay but that was not one this is one what's that that was not mentioned and i said one i know that i know that sure they might be considered to be fruit of the prison tree it's possible but i still have to look at it because it's a murder right it's possible absolutely anyway but is there any reason you can think of it when we download that data new answers for you okay but that's why i just i have to ask questions right yeah watson shows that he has more on the ball than one might think judging by some of his earlier ramblings he flat out refuses to answer some of the most potentially damaging questions it's almost like he is using this as a fishing expedition to satisfy his own curiosity is there any reason you can think of why that data is going to show your currently chris okay well then i just want you to understand what we're working on yeah and what we're doing okay so you're aware of what's going on um yeah because i think it's important for you to know i think it's important for you to understand what we're working on as investigators i think you have every right to know that you're the one sitting here under arrest make sense i still don't know why they don't just let me go home and stay at home where i would be comfortable because i'm certainly not going to be going anywhere or doing anything right you recognize that yeah that's my current that's your problem okay and that's your carport yeah yeah okay um what is what was that a picture of bruce lee and then yeah and it's actually this one over here i just want to show you it's this one okay so this is a close-up of this exhaust pipe so the way that vehicle is facing right now that would be the driver's side yeah would you agree yeah yeah okay and you agree that's your car that's your card port yep okay so this is this blowing up do you see that yeah what is that i don't know it's black this is back here on your tailgate it's close up okay on the tailgate yeah okay that's blood this it's kind of dark but it's what we call the pillars so this is the driver door passenger door on the passenger side yeah there's blood there yeah okay so what i've done is that's blood that's blood and that's blood on your car whose blood do you think that is when i told the police right at the beginning right on the day they took me away and thursday i told them if they wanted blood they would give some food yeah and they could compare it to this food is there any like is it logical would that be your blood have you cut yourself yeah i could i cut myself here okay how'd you do that i did it with a chisel a chisel yeah okay what and i explained all this to dan levine okay i even showed them what i was working on when that happened they showed them whatever happened in the president he actually helped him did he okay now after you cut your hand did you touch your car i messed up okay no and that's why i'm asking right um because i mean that yeah that would bleed pretty good and you're um you're you're right-handed or left-handed right so it would make sense that you would open doors with your right hand things like that i can only assume that this blood go on the car i'm assuming that that would make sense right it's the only thing i can think of is there any reason you could think of why that would be i don't know her blood jesus but i have no idea it's her blood oh it's heartbreak well it looks to me like you get really wrapped up you're a very logical man you're a very smart man i know a very smart mind you are pretty sure you tested my intelligence at the best it would be average well what i mean by that is this you are a very logical person and so i don't want to sit here sorry and play any type of games with you i want you to understand why you're here because i think you deserve to be treated with respect and courtesy just the same way you've treated me here today which i appreciate i'm telling you right now that that's her blood on your car okay but i'm also prepared to back it up because you're such a smart man that's the report from the center of forensic sciences that you may have a look at and read which is not my opinion it is their opinion that they have done the scientific tests and they have verified the fact that it's her blood on your car and you can read through that take your time or i can read it to you would you like me to read it to you i don't know want me to get them for you no i don't need to be done i'll take your word for it that's her blood on your car okay okay so i just want you to be aware of that okay um you haven't seen her since the saturday before she went missing that's right so she hasn't been in your car because she hasn't been anywhere near your car and yet her blood is on your car how does that happen i don't know he didn't know that's the thing no idea we're at a point right now where this isn't uh what happened to her this isn't a whodunit okay we know she's gone i know you're responsible but there's still some you know the big question is the the why that's the only answer we have left is the why did this happen it's not did you do it we know you did okay this is only one set of scientific testing that's happened there's more scientific testing going on as we speak plus all the pictures plus all the images you can see where this is going this is all coming to one great big massive head okay you are a smart man you know okay tell me something yes did you execute a central one on ben carmen's house or car myself i haven't i just got here today i said i just got here today so no i haven't well did the peterborough please again watson has a convenient explanation blood that was found at the scene wasn't just for debts his was there too if he was following his lawyer's advice he would have refused to discuss this just as he did with previous questions but he's wanting to establish these answers as facts hoping that it will draw suspicion away from him or at least cast reasonable doubt execution phone on ben carmen says our car no not yet did the executive service work on dave clare's house or car what does that have to do with anything at this point because those investigations are ongoing and those people are certainly being looked at however the evidence takes me where i need to be and i have her blood all over your car i have a lady that's missing that hasn't been seen since the 12th i have a sign of a struggle in her driveway where there's blood on her driveway and obvious signs of a struggle there's blood at your house while the people don't move my eyes because i'm always bleeding right um but but that would be my blood they shoot his head on his dominez's plate anybody else but it's on your car well i don't know about that that's science it's right there it's on your car okay and you know what even even down to it's on your exhaust low okay here's the thing we're we're at this point where you know exactly what happened to her now the way i have to look at it is and i do look at it like this do i think for one moment that you planned all this absolutely not do i think for one moment that you woke up one day and said that i'm going to harm her and take her life no i don't think that at all okay but the fact is it did happen i love her i know you do so help us bring her back because there's family if you're convinced she's dead you're not going to bring her back no but you know what you know as well as i do there's grandkids and a daughter and a son that would like her remains and the brother they would like her remains but i want her i want her back people deserve that maybe no no but you can you absolutely can because you can make up your own mind you know the lawyer told me not even to speak to you but i didn't the kind of guy i am i don't mind speaking to you you've been a gentleman you've been respectful you've been quite just telling me that you can prove beyond the shadow of a dude that i could at least for that this is what you're telling me right i'm telling you that these this evidence supports the allegations well there's as far as i can see you've got this whole thing wrapped up but you already knew that coming in here you already knew that you're the person who's responsible i didn't need to tell you that no i'm talking about that no no yeah i mean this you can't argue with the science that the blood is there it's you want to know what the numbers are the numbers are 1 in 26 trillion that it's anybody else's but hers okay a quadrillion i should say i am not qualified sir i am not qualified to do blood analysis or anything like that and nor am i and that's why the scientists will come in because it's not my opinion it's the scientists that will come in and say this is what they do for a living then there's all the images that are coming all the cameras that are being downloaded you go to men well what are you going to say then you're going to look at the community you're going to look at the family you're going to look at everybody and then what are you going to say i'm going to say so and everybody's going to look at an image everybody's going to hear about the dna everybody's going to read the results and you're still going to stand there and say i didn't do it slowly the detective is becoming more forceful making watson understand that he is very confident that the evidence is leading him to the right suspect i don't know what i'm going to say till i speak to a lawyer the thing is you're a grown man you can speak for yourself number one okay i know you love her period that is not a doubt in my mind i know you love her well if you're crazy she's dead then it's the past tense you know she's dead you know she's gone you you and i don't need to play a word game back and forth i know plain i'm just telling you i don't want to speak to you that's all because the lawyer told me not to speak to you and and i'm telling you i don't have an issue with that however i'm simply reminding you that you can speak for yourself you've made that quite clear here today that you're very capable of talking you're very eloquent very intelligent man and you can also speak for yourself you can also realize that the situation that you find yourself in where you're at now is you're at the point of no return you've been arrested for murder i've shared with you some of the evidence there's a lot more that's still going on yeah okay none of this is wrong i don't know why you would even bother talking to me because i would like her body back that's why you know that that's logical okay that's logical because you know what and it's not for me because i don't have a personal attachment to her but you know what there's her daughter mm-hmm there's all her family and and you know what does somebody else need to eventually find those remains does the child need to stumble across them whatever the situation may be i would like her body back that's where we're at as far as the murder goes and the who did it i'm good okay the why is the question that everybody has and from a family perspective and a community perspective they would like to see some dignity come to you know regardless of whether she she had personality flaws and she wasn't always the nicest person in the world to you and she maybe didn't always treat you a hundred percent fairly make no mistake no we had no problems no but i mean you talked about the fact that she had a temper and what that would come violence lots of people have attempted absolutely i agree and i look at this case i don't believe for one moment that you planned all this i actually just in case i don't want you to have the wrong idea i'm not trying to tell you that she was some kind of ogre she was not oh i i sure was a wonderful person and ninety-nine percent of the time we go on just perfectly i agree she's not an ogre in any way shape or form so she blew her top occasionally so then she deserves better than where she is right now oh you know that and i know that okay she deserves better than where she is right now and let's bring her home do you think you would be able to get me a mattress and a pillow or something for that cell yeah i mentioned that to you earlier that yes when i spoke to you earlier at the cells i indicated to you that when you go back in there yeah i'll get you looked after it's awful uncomfortable the way it is yeah well you don't think there's any chance of me going home and staying at home oh well let's bring her home anyway it's nice talking to you but i just told you i don't want to answer any more questions that's fine you can listen i'm allowed to talk i'm sure right sure but the thing is you need to understand the big picture of where everybody's coming from now well you've explained it very well right so all things are up top well except for the fact that do you think that the lady that you loved like really her family everybody that's a nice person that you spoke of they would like to see her back in whatever form she's in they would like to see her back you know that okay and i think that's fair request on their part you know that and i know that okay i i don't think i'm sitting here with a bad guy i don't think i'm sitting here with any type of a monster i actually think you take my my record yeah you don't have one you don't have one you loved this lady i think as you sit here you still love her even though it's in the past tense you're not a violent fellow you're not a violent person you're actually a very peaceful person um that i know okay this was not planned this was not premeditated this was not all mapped out to the nth degree okay but the fact is it happened why is it first degree partner if it wasn't planned why is it first-degree murder if it wasn't the charge if it wasn't planned why would it be first-degree murder because right now since we don't have her remains back yet there's evidence that could be on the remains that would constitute a first degree murder charge the other thing is in the court systems they can always lower the levels of homicide it's hard to go back up make sense okay yeah so that's why it's first-degree murder okay but none of this is surprising i know that you know that okay um like i said i'm being very candid with you there's no surprises here this isn't uh who did it the questions are why i don't i don't believe like i said i don't believe you're a monster i don't believe you're some type of evil okay i think it happened i think it happened fast it may even have been an accident and then but when accidents happen people can panic and people have accidents happen people who can panic and react in such a fashion where they make decisions right um that's quite possibly what we have here maybe she was the aggressor maybe you were defending yourself but the fact is she ended up in the state she's in okay now i've been candid with you with what we have what we've been working on thus far there's more coming um i think you deserve that you're the one facing the allegations you wanted to know why you were here so i told you why you're here i think that's fair you need to hear that i have no problem telling you that okay but the one thing i do know is that none of that comes as a surprise to you you're well aware of why you're here okay it's human nature i get it it's human nature to to understand and realize i'm facing murder charges um why would i want to talk about it i get it but the fact is the evidence is speaking for you the evidence is there yeah right i had no problem speaking to the police on that day when it came thursday yeah they were there from lunch to be one o'clock so 6 30 or something and i answered all their questions there's a there's a witness who sees you driving away that night you're not at home only oh well i say yeah you it made okay plus the blood on the car plus your gps plus all these cameras all over the place right i don't know why you're raping wasting your time talking to me oh it's never a waste of time to talk to you oh wow it's never a waste of time okay see because you have an opportunity right now to tell me your side of what happened it's tragic it happened it cannot be reversed and we know that we all make mistakes in life we've all done things that we regret you're in a position where like i said you now have an opportunity to say scott this is this is what happened if you have remorse if you feel bad if you feel guilty yeah you have an opportunity yeah but the lawyer told me not to speak to you and that is fair but you can also speak to yourself yeah but why would i have a lawyer to advise me and then ignore what he advises that would be kind of stupid no i can't comment on that at all because people can make up their own mind you indicated earlier what if the lawyer wasn't smart enough to do what you wanted him to do those were your words earlier what if he didn't know to object what if he didn't know what he was doing yeah so you're a very smart man to know that you can also speak for yourself maybe you came home and found her in the driveway because somebody else knocked her out and you panicked and you thought i need to get rid of the remains whatever spin you want to put on it let's go get her maybe it was a whole new video did your car go missing did you lend it to anybody i thought i know but something could have stolen it did anybody steal your car i don't know i'm sitting in the house all the time i don't know what's going on i do know my car's been ransacked in the past has it okay when was the last time it was your answer quite a while ago and uh they took i have i keep a spare pack of cigarettes and a quick box they took the cigarettes the detective is giving him an out he could make a confession claiming that it was an accident in the hopes of getting the charges reduced even if he did in fact plan to kill her what the detective doesn't stress is the fact that since he's already being charged with first degree murder they can still try him for that especially if watson's confession coupled with the evidence from the recovered body can give them something to strengthen their case now the little disciplines that i keep for uh if you have to pay on the toll roads you have coins landing or if i'm parking somewhere and i need coins for a parking meter and there was about 20 25 of coins in there and they took that [Music] but fortunately they didn't do any damage that's good yeah do you do you think it's possible somebody took your car i have no idea i'm just asking i told you i said in the house reading all the time but we have a witness that says okay okay good for you you've got it all wrapped up why'd you keep going on because i would like to bring back or please do whatever you like just don't involve me the lawyer told me not to even talk to you i should have been talking to you all this time you you know that you're involved so how can i step back and not involve you you're you're a logical man you know that okay that's the one thing that you're conflicted with right now is the fact that you are so logical and and you are so i'm not conflicted at all then i've underestimated you the only thing that's bothering me is these conditions that i'm wondering do you understand you're under arrest for murder i understand that understand do you understand these conditions you're in a jail cell you're in a jail cell these are terrible conditions for good sleep for somebody who supposedly is innocent has not been convicted of any crime that's right to have to put up with these conditions is just abominable right but these don't care they're not living in these conditions well how how is it that they don't care obviously if they cared the conditions would be better than they are what would you like in the cell what would be better for you forget it just forget it okay i just think that the conditions are very very bad here that's all different if i was convicted then the conditions i don't deserve good conditions but i'm not convicted of any crime i don't feel that somebody who's been convicted deserves deplorable or bad conditions we still have a right to provide people with living conditions even in custody well for a week adventure on that all day i didn't build the building no no i have nothing i don't know i know that okay but the fact that i think he's ever responsible for so many they get everybody gets scattered all around and nobody's responsible nobody can tell you this nobody can answer your questions or anything else well then let's talk about you know responsibility who's responsible talking to you can you not understand that they don't want to talk to you anymore period end of discussion what could be simpler i believe you're afraid right now am i afraid yeah the future jail that's normal i would be too that's normal for anybody i think like my goodness if i was sitting where you were that is exactly how i would feel period that's human nature like i get it i'm not i'm not obtuse to that like that's normal that makes sense you know lives change futures change everything changes i i get that so i can say honestly that if i was in the same situation you're darn right i would be afraid you're darn right i would be concerned i know that that that's you know i may try and put on a show or i may try and act like i'm okay i know deep down i'd be scared to death absolutely okay i get it the the premise of all this right now is your future changes from this point forward and you know that oh yeah and i know that too i'm not pretending this is something that is not okay but i don't believe that you're cold i don't believe you you're this cold laissez-faire individual not at all okay i i don't i think you know we refer to these i've seen them time and time again did you love this lady watson is becoming more and more agitated and he clearly wants this session to be over he doesn't seem worried by any of the evidence in fact he shows more interest in the comfort level of his cell yes that's why you were watching her that's why you were following her that's why you knew her activities and her actions i know that the breakup the fact that you two know were no longer together broke your heart and i know that um it's it's it's very very difficult when we're dealing with matters of the heart and emotions it brings things out in it sometimes that we didn't even know we had in us that we've never felt before none of us are immune from that none of us okay i know you were following her i know you were watching her i've seen the letters that you wrote her and obviously you're paying attention to her because some of the things that you wrote in the letters you obviously had to be watching what she was doing and who she was with it hurts you gave her everything of yourself in that relationship to her you put yourself out there you loved this lady as you said yourself earlier there isn't really anything you wouldn't do for her except for the quebec trip that you know is the one time you pushed back even a little bit saying you weren't comfortable doing something okay that's called unconditional love that's called knowing that i love this lady and there's nothing i wouldn't do for her when she pushes back and doesn't want to be with you anymore that hurts that really hurts especially when you you didn't have an affair on her you didn't hit her you didn't beat her you didn't do anything wrong to her that makes it even worse she didn't walk away from me i walked away from her both occasions but it was because of the way she carried on over like you said silly trivial things it didn't make any sense it's like she was pushing you away i'm just correcting you you said that she dumped me she didn't dump me i didn't turn then i stand corrected you dumped her but the fact is it doesn't take away the fact that you still loved her and you were still watching her and i know that okay and that's it's hard sometimes to let go and it's hard to think that she's just moved on and with the appearance that maybe what you two had wasn't real wasn't significant the way she was perhaps carrying on with other people which hurts absolutely it hurts everybody in life has been through something like that at some point in time that's for sure but that's why i don't believe that you're this cold person this this callous individual that's i don't believe that i don't believe that's you at all because you know what everybody describes you actually differently than that well i don't know he told me i was called i don't think i'm a cold person no no i didn't say that anybody said you were cold it's it's where we're at here today in the sense that you know what i i don't for one moment pretend that this is easy for you i don't for one moment think that you know this is easy and that this is stress free this is one of the probably the most stressful days in your life this is not fun i get it you are under arrest the allegations are murder and i've sat here and presented to you evidence to show you that's not fun i know that okay and if i was sitting where you are i understand that it's like everything is mounting everything is building and it's your jeopardy okay i think you've already gone off i don't know why you're even talking to me but that's why you're under arrest because there's more than enough so when you asked earlier i don't even know scott why i'm under arrest i don't know why i'm here i answered your question for you because you deserved that you deserved it i know why i'm here right there's no question about that i know exactly why i'm here i've been served with murder but i've shown you the why we can't just go out and arbitrarily arrest people without grounds we have to have grounds yeah and grounds mean we have evidence because for us to lay charges and bring it forward to a court we can't just do it because well we think he did it and let's see what happens yeah there needs to be substance to that here's some of the substance that's why i shared it with you okay so like i said you coming in here today you sitting with me here today is is not the who did it okay i'm explaining to you why we have that part all figured out here's the evidence i follow the evidence i'm sitting with the person that i need to be sitting with i'm satisfied with that okay the big question that people have and it's two things is the why okay because everybody always wants to know why these things happen everybody always paints them out to be something big and sinister and planned out and evil and it's my experience that more often than not it's not that at all it's something that starts off very innocent and then things go south in a hurry okay and and then people react to it i get that do you by any chance of a business card you could get paid yeah well we're all done i will absolutely give you a business card thank you okay i would appreciate that because i speak to so many policemen over the last week you know it doesn't yeah absolutely no no problem yeah all the names just i'll make sure it's with your property but other than the why did it happen okay the family is sitting in this building right now and it's the where is she oh they're in this building they're in this building oh wow okay and it's the where is she that's the only question they have they don't they don't care about the why they don't care about the circumstances they're not judging they're not okay they just want their mom back they want their grandma back yeah they're a nice family they are yeah and so i think they deserve and then you go in very well with them and that's what they said too yeah i i honestly believe they are a very nice family yeah okay but they want mom back they want grandma back okay so let's go get her the detective keeps trying to appeal to watson's emotions but watson just isn't having it he has fallen back on mostly repeating the same thing or changing the subject of the conditions in which they are keeping him you and i i'm not going anywhere back to myself where hopefully i'll get a pillow and a mattress and maybe maybe even a blanket because that is an awful uncomfortable place would i really replay this page and let me go home you know that's not going to happen i already explained it and i can i can guarantee you that i will not leave my house i will not step over that's out of my control okay like i said that's up to the courts we uh we put the person before the courts and it's up to the courts to decide where the person goes so will you be at this video thing tomorrow no i thought you were in charge of this case but i don't need to be in the video court portion because that's just a hearing to remand you into custody that's all it is so tomorrow morning they'll just say whether i'm going to stay here or not tomorrow morning will be probably a video to remand you into custody and then you'll get a formal bail hearing probably on monday or tuesday because it's a weekend or sunday so i'll be here at least until tuesday no i explained this to you earlier you'll be here today you'll be here tonight my guess is after tomorrow in the video remand you'll be transferred to a jail and then from the jail they'll take you to the court ah okay and the jail will be in lindsay well as we discussed earlier i'll find out exactly which jail but that would make sense yeah okay are we done here oh could you at least give me my cigarettes i feel very guilty smoking your cigarettes especially since you don't smoke you don't need to feel guilty about that could you know give me my cigarettes your cigarettes are lodged in property i have cigarettes i've given you cigarettes so i i you don't need to feel guilty about any of that you don't need anything but you don't have to okay you don't have to feel guilty about smoking a cigarette okay do you have questions for me no no i think you've got everything so what are your thoughts on all that i said what are your thoughts on all that i'm sitting here showing you how i think you've been doing very well yeah very well i'm accusing you of taking her life you're okay with that do i have any choice absolutely you have a choice you can say whatever you want to be if you don't agree with it if you don't like it you absolutely have a choice no i don't have a choice you could just be not motivated keep chatting and work and that's it but it's not without evidence i'm not talking about evidence i've saying that i the position i'm in i have no choice well they're just upon you just a bit yeah that you're playing with what do you mean by that i told you i don't want to talk to you how many times do i have to tell you that i keep telling you over and over again i don't want to talk to you and answer your questions or anything else but you know you can answer anything you want you can say anything you want you're a grown man i'm not going to say anything i'm not going to talk to you i would like to go back to myself and you will absolutely when when we're done need to smoke your cigarettes and i already told you you don't need to worry about smoking my cigarettes i do it's a big issue for me but it doesn't have to be i know i'm richer i didn't say you were if i thought you were i wouldn't give you a cigarette you think you're the only person i've ever dealt with that smokes yeah kitty you must have dealt with lots of people in school absolutely [Music] i'm not worried about people smoking cigarettes i get it okay any guilt you feel about cigarettes is your own it's not from me once more watson has skillfully maneuvered the conversation away from the uncomfortable questions the detective is visibly frustrated and may suspect that watson is doing this deliberately but can't fully rule out that there might be a touch of senility right i think basically i'm a giver rather than a taker so i don't like taking it makes me feel guilty i can't help but that's how we are made you find yourself in a situation though where you're gonna have to take because it's just the procedures and the policies that once we've locked up your property we're not going to go into it this is something that i can provide you with i don't have an issue with it so we don't need to worry about it it's all good okay okay a couple cigarettes is not gonna you know break me financially it's all good did you know an officer i don't bp officer called pierce pierce he was the officer in charge of the helmet box from murder down in qatar or something like that do you remember that case i remember the case i don't know if i know the officer spectacular case was it what what did you like about or notice about that case you obviously followed it and paid attention to it i just read a book on it did you yeah and what did you think you said it was spectacular what what is it that you picked up on [Music] many people and there were always who would squeal on anybody to get over with themselves you know absolutely so they were all spilling their guts and that's how the case was sold that's an age-old um issue that if you're going to tell a whole bunch of other people well then you've lost control of the information now haven't you because you just this guy's you're going to control him you just never know who's going to go talk right absolutely i mean that's uh that doesn't even have to go towards crime that's a society issue if you don't want somebody to know a piece of information then don't tell them yeah because you always run the risk that they could speak it yeah that's what that's exactly what happened right exactly right so that's common that happens absolutely if i had access to my house i'd give you the book to read it maybe you don't read books do you i do yeah i i can i appreciate the offer but i can go get the book that's yeah i don't uh see i would feel guilty taking your book live with me i guess there you go but i slayed it after a couple of the dance to go to the dance and they're originally from hong kong and i had a book on the hungarian uprising back in the 50s 60s or something and i asked them if they late even did and i gave them the book to me it's just spreading information on things that i think might interest somebody yeah oh yeah absolutely it's an interesting read it's uh it's nice to be able to share that with people right i think that's a i think that's a good idea to do those kind of things i was very disappointed to learn that they don't have a library in the jail and lindsay i thought all jails would have a library how do you know that the guy in this thing told me the guy in the cell opposite he told me well did he tell you that well yeah i think he's a criminal no but he said there's no if he knows there's no library in there then obviously he must have been in there yeah he's been in there is that how she looked recently like i haven't seen her before so is that like a current picture i would guess that's currently i would guess yeah yeah i've got lots of pictures of these no i've never met her before yeah and there's no reason why i would have she lived a good life and it's not like she would have anything to do with law enforcement so we would uh it would make sense that we wouldn't cross paths right so i can only go by you know a couple pictures that i've seen that type of thing right where do you have your pictures up i offered sleep to the place if they wanted them but it didn't mean yeah they had access to some other pictures you miss her that's a silly question believe it or not i've sat with people that say no i don't watson seems to be getting himself back under control understanding that the detective is trying to make him uncomfortable enough that he'll say something just to be able to go to bed so i find i never take anything for granted anymore i just ask the questions do you miss her so none of this was meant to happen and i know that because that's not you okay if i was asked to describe myself and one what i would say quiet would describe me yeah you know what you can be quiet and you can still have emotion and you can still have a heart and you can still love and you can still care and you can still have compassion because you're the type of guy that shows it through your actions not always through your words so if you're willing to do the grass if you're willing to do the flower beds if you're willing to wash a car or if you're willing to get her car maintenance then i you know if you're willing to work around the house for her if you're willing to color her hair if you're willing to draw her a bath if you're willing to make her a meal right if you're willing to go out of your way to sit and have coffee with her and even though you didn't want to you you went to quebec with this lady even though you didn't want to you gave unto yourself okay you did all this in a nutshell i did anything and everything that i could to try and make her happy it's as simple as that so now let's finish this by making her family happy let's give them the one thing that they need these places are now made for comfort it's the only thing they ask for that's all they want that's the only thing they want is her back is this a cell phone no i told you at the beginning that's a voice recorder remember at the beginning i told you what it was it is and that's a backup so i want to make sure we don't miss anything because if you notice i don't write things down no that's okay right so that's a backup recording so that we always make sure something breaks or malfunctions we have a backup that's why i put it on the table i don't hide it okay let's not dodge this okay i said let's not dodge this this the family wants her back i'm not dodging anything let's bring her back for tomorrow to get this video thing done but we can bring her back today so that i know what's happening to me but we can bring her back today so we know what's happening to her let's bring her back today i don't know how many times i have to tell you i don't want to speak to you you know what is that about that he can't understand well i understand it i don't want to speak to you you speak to me you just don't want to speak about this well i don't want to speak to you at all god these places are uncomfortable did you drink your coffee i don't need this then why do you have it you're you're doing the same thing the detective is allowing longer pauses after his questions hoping that watson will want to fill the silence so far it hasn't been very effective no it's just because i've been up for two days so you don't like it why do you have it well when i was in the hotel for a week they hadn't allowed me to take stuff with me because they told me i would be home the next day so i just took my toothbrush and my toothpaste so for that whole week i couldn't shave so when i got home to my house i shaved if i had so much growth that i held my time trying to see because there is i just keep getting clocked up and clocked up so i quit i just i did did this and and i left that and i was going to get by to it again but i never got the chance i was arrested before i got back to it most of the time i spent in my house for that couple of days when i was home i was trying to get you to stop by that they'd scattered all over the place but i knew it nearly finished it's just terrible they'll take me forever if i ever get out it'll take me forever to choose to stop you understand this is a murder investigation right of course do you think i'm dense no but as you're sitting here laughing like it's well they seem to me it seems to be a silly thing to say that's why i laughed at it not only have you told me that dozen times it's murder i put your papers right in that look everybody tells me i'm chairs with murders it doesn't bother you so it's beyond my control completely i disagree what is it why was it going to bother me there's nothing i can do about it if there's something that's completely beyond your control you might as well just forget it but it's completely within your control it snows in my control that's been made very very obvious to me too that it's no within my control the very fact that you're sitting here was as a result of your own actions so it's always within your control there's nobody else responsible for this well there you go so it's completely within your control what's happening now is not within my control what's happening now is completely out with my control can't even get my bloody cigarettes for goodness sake and yet you've been provided with cigarettes so you've not been depressed you've got to sit there you shouldn't care how it looks you've so i do care yeah that's okay that's good that's nice you don't i don't want to talk to you you don't care i do not want to talk to you do you care about them i do not want to talk to you watson continues to evade questions about fredette talking about anything and everything else in a bid to wait the detective out at some point he will succeed because the interview cannot go on forever finally watson has made it clear that he will no longer speak and the detective leaves the room on april 20th 2017 andrew watson was found guilty of the first degree murder of lies for dead when asked by the judge on behalf of the family to reveal the location of her body watson's reply was no thanks he was sentenced to life in prison and it will be 25 years before he is eligible for parole as for lies for debt her remains have yet to be found you

Channel: Stranger Stories

Views: 1,074,736

Keywords: true crime, crime psychology, stranger stories, full interrogation, police interrogations, jcs, jcs inspired, confession tapes, crime, psychology, police, footage, jcs like, true crime documentary, forensic psychology, crime documentary, documentary, investigation, criminal psychology, interrogation, short documentary, Andrew Watson, ex girlfriend killer, Lise Fredette case, jim cant swim, case analysis, long interrogation, interrogation psychology, criminal analysis, jcs case

Id: tOmVHjDtJgA

Length: 215min 11sec (12911 seconds)

Published: Mon Jan 31 2022