The Six-Axis Model of Influence w/ Chase Hughes

welcome to the forge by Trust podcast I'm your host Robin Drake executive coach former US Marine spy recruiter best-selling author and you're a trust and communication expert today's episode the six axis model of influence is brought to you by my guest best-selling author and behavior expert Chase Hughes and his complimentary training app success is human not Financial our single mission is to deliver the most powerful training in the world to allow you to influence persuade interpret and live on a level most will never know when results count the training matters this network is unlike anything else live weekly coaching a network that matters instant training access Real Life Connections weapons grade skills life-changing mentors become a behavior locksmith join the tribe now to start your journey unlock the most powerful training system for human behavior on Earth check it out on his website chaseus.com coming up next on the forge by Trust podcast the first whole part of every training I do is I open it up by saying you're in the business of manufacturing gut feelings in other people and the the first rule that I teach in Behavior profile number one thing that everybody learns is to see suffering first the more you know the more you realize that you don't know very much welcome to the show I'm Robin Drake and on the forged by Trust podcast we decode the interpersonal communication skills of the world's most acclaimed forgers of trust we unlock the skills and techniques from spies spy recruiters Master interrogators globally recognized behavioral experts c-suite Executives entrepreneurs acclaimed authors and thought leaders each episode provides specific actions that you can immediately apply to any aspect of your personal or professional life today's episode the six axis model of influence is with the behavior panels Chase use called the number one Behavior expert in the world by Dr Phil Chase Hughes is the leading military and intelligence Behavior expert with 20 years of creating the most advanced behavior skills courses and tactics available worldwide Chase shoes is a leading Behavior expert in the United States and the number one best-selling author of two books on tactical behavior skills he is the author of the worldwide number one best-selling book on Advanced persuasion influence and behavior profiling Chase teaches Elite groups government agencies and police and behavior science skills including Behavior profiling nonverbal analysis deception detection interrogation and advanced behavioral investigation his piece 4A cores is a critical life-saving course designed for law enforcement and his human tradecraft course is specifically designed for intelligence operations Personnel who depend heavily on serious human behavior skills during today's episode we talk about gut feelings ethics and persuasion the Fate model for understanding human behavior and the six axis model of influence Chase Hughes welcome to the show finally thanks man appreciate it yeah we've traveled in each other's circles for quite some time so Chase you've done amazing things in your life and we're definitely going to get to the end state of this which is the six axis model of influence which you are known for great human behavior understanding interaction but what I'm curious about is the spark you are passionate about service because you spent a career in the Navy and I want to go down that road as well and you're also passionate about human behavior what was a spark that created that passion I had social anxiety growing up and I couldn't talk to people I felt like I didn't didn't get along well with people and at the time I was 17 I was failing every single class in high school I couldn't pass a grade and I thought you know they're I'm not going to get into any college I have to join the military so I walked into this Navy Recruiting Office joined the Navy and started out my first job in the military was scraping paint off off like the side of the ship and like repainting rusted areas and stuff now hold on I'm doing the worst thing ever I'm interrupting because you've already dropped so many things I want to explore first but literally the first thing you said sparked curiosity you had social anxiety growing up what did that look like because I think we've all experienced it yeah so I think for me I just thought how was everyone else so perfect how is everyone else able to just connect with other people and how why am I the one who's like I'm the only one who has insecurities I'm the only one who is like hiding little things that I'm ashamed of you know and you just kind of get in this bubble which is exacerbated today and where we compare our normal life to some highlight reel of someone else's life on social media but I got to that point and it was strange just thinking that that was my life and in the military I was at I was stationed in Pearl Harbor talking to this young lady in Waikiki Beach one evening and like she turned me down hard she's like almost said f you it was that bad and I I had assumed everything was great up and just to this wall point and I went home and I typed in how to tell when girls like you into Google and it printed off this mountain of like like you know those articles that are like 10 secret body language tricks you know right and that that kind of thing and printed this out and I just became obsessed with it because the more I learned to spot and see fears and insecurities and weaknesses in other people I didn't feel better than anybody I just feel like oh I'm not the only one that screwed up there's other people that are screwed up too most everybody is suffering everyone you see is suffering in some way and it kind of injected me with confidence and empathy at the same time towards just humanized everybody and where did you grow up I grew up in Houston Texas all right and what was grown up like because I'm trying to understand where this insecurity at the young age came from and what was the first time you saw it manifest in you I think it was just growing up in like this country club kind of environment and I was the only kid who didn't you know like join this golf team right you know I didn't necessarily like wearing the country club attire and stuff growing up and I just didn't feel like I was supposed to be there like maybe maybe I was somebody else's kid is meant to be here you know doing this and I think that probably started it and I got moved off to a military academy when I was 11. and went to military school up until I left for the Navy and did well there and I credit and all of My Success to that military school a thousand percent more than the US military as you know like you might you do well in the military if you have leadership and discipline but you don't necessarily learn it there you know you people who really succeed come in with that stuff but that was a Missouri Military Academy and and why that one so your parents sent you there you wanted to go there what was the impetus to go there it was both I knew something had to happen when I was 11. and my parents said you know this is pre-internet did this exhaustive search to find like this the you knew something had to happen what what do you mean something had to happen well my education was severely failing I was like could not pass classes I'm fluent in Spanish and I was failing Spanish oh so uh I just knew that I needed some kind of structure and even at that young age there's something in the back of my head that said like something's lacking here in terms of like structure and the environment that I'm in and the military always seemed badass to me so I was like well I'm going to military school they're going to teach me how to fight which obviously didn't happen but you know I thought all this stuff cool stuff was gonna happen and why was that did you have someone or something in your life that got you into the military at that young age not really my dad's father was a flight instructor he died when I was two so I don't have any memories of him I just you know probably watching like under siege I I've never said this out loud first movie like first like rated R movie I've ever seen definitely the first movie with like boobs in it or something like that right I think that's what did it like I was like wow the Navy is really badass right I remember that movie planted a seed yeah this guy Navy SEAL guy it's Steven Seagal yep great movie and so you took the you took charge of this of of saying I need to do something more this was your idea I think it was both my parents just approached me with it one day and I said yeah that sounds cool number one but two I think that's that's the only way that I'm gonna get any structure wow and so what was that experience at the military academy like what were some of the great takeaways you think you got there I was explaining this to my son and held your son he is 14. okay good go ahead and he was asking me how the school was and I said it's like a mixture between boot camp Harvard and a fancy hotel they take really good care of you it's like a Michelin star Chef everything is fresh and organic and natural and like your laundry's done for you but you you better work your ass off you've really got to work and you've got to manage your time exceedingly well starting at like age 11 with the youngest kids there you manage yourself and you manage your own time you just got to be where you're supposed to be and that really really did help a lot so what kind of differences did you see in your grades how fast did that turnaround happen not a whole lot they kind of floated up to passing but it was just the life skills that I I was learning without knowing it so like I never went to a class where they're like here's how to be a good leader and the big PowerPoint comes on the screen but just that being forced into this social interaction with other boys and just learning in that environment where you've got a like your survival kind of and especially in military school is rooted in how well you can connect with those other people can you relate to somebody who like all these rich kids from Mexico City travel to this school like for some reason right and it was the first time I'd you know been around anybody that wasn't like me and I think that was a big part of it just the Social Development aspect and so that brings us up to so what was the spark then for joining the military going in the Navy I just thought it was cool first off but I knew that college wasn't for me I've since been to college but I knew that it wasn't for me I knew that was definitely not the right time in my life and I I definitely wanted to travel I wanted to you know go see new stuff and go to different places and I went to all the recruiters and the Navy recruiters like yeah you're going to travel the most right here in the Navy and I was like all right sounds good what did you want to do did you even know to be a detective like a like an investigator or something like that and you know I got a line from the recruiters like oh you do this one job and then you can pick whatever job you want and I know you're a marine and I'm sure you've heard those stories and I came into the Navy as a mineman so a person who's like working on underwater mines and and stuff like that and when I got the orders like the day we graduated boot camp you know they give you these orders in your hand and mine's mine did not say mindman they said another job this which was called undesignated which thing in the Marine Corps and the Navy I think both and mine's undesonated and the drill sergeant or RDC in the Navy it's like does anybody have a problem with your orders and I put my hand up and goes put your hand down here I was like okay so you're undesignated what was your first Duty station what what job they give you to do my first job was on a destroyer a guided missile destroyer USS Russell and it was in Pearl Harbor scraping the ship it's rusting out all the time and it didn't take long for me to say this is not you know I don't I don't want to be here so I changed jobs as fast as I could so is this around the same time that we had this experience with being shot down very completely where you printed out the how you can tell if a female likes you or not that was it that was the time frame there and what did you learn from that experience I think just like well all I wanted to do was like I don't I wanted to avoid rejection so I wanted to read all these body language things like I want to know if she's okay with me asking her that question I want to know if she's into me essentially before I just ask somebody that question so that's that was the impetus of it and it became more and more addicting so I consumed a hundred books in the first two or three years I spent all my money on books and behavior studying stuff and around that time my best friend his name is Craig weberly died was killed in a terrorist attack on the USS Cole oh my gosh and this happened you know around you know the September 11th attacks and the USS Cole was a part of that a lot of people didn't hear about it especially today we don't hear much about it but I'm reading these Intel briefings which I know you're extremely familiar with but especially in the Intel Community there's a tendency toward this radical level of honesty of like why did this fail or at least back then there was and it was attributed to these failures and intelligence operatives that are in the theater to recruit local assets to get local people to provide the information so they said like this could have been anticipated at least if we had more local assets if we were able to do this so essentially it was like a behavioral skills thing and I'm sitting here with all these body language things in my head at this point thinking oh I'm basically a body language expert I'm 20 years old and I thought well I'm going to solve this problem I'm going to figure out how to get Intelligence Officers to be able to recruit people using all of these skills so I kind of just devoted my life the rest of that part of my life to learning all these skills to where an intelligence officer could essentially recruit anybody that they wanted to and I wanted to be able to do it regardless of language and barriers there might be I wanted to teach intelligence people how do I get a person to do what I need them to do curious thing to me besides so many things you're saying so this wasn't your your primary rating in the Navy yet it was your passion how did you bring them together to be that resource for these intelligence gatherers overseas eventually I started working in detention centers overseas and there's one started in Hawaii and we there's Guantanamo Bay and all of this but I my title on paper was Correctional counselor all these things take great relationships along the way to be given opportunities to kind of follow our passions who was it along the way that saw this skill set that allowed you to kind of maneuver yourself into this passion I had a commanding officer his name was Chase Patrick he's still in the Navy and it was a rare instance of like you know we know people who are really humble and who have like maybe a five percent ego this guy had zero and no ego whatsoever and so when it came for him to take a risk on like putting me somewhere recommending me for a program all of this there was there was Zero hesitation he didn't mind and it was the first first guy I kind of developed a relationship with and just a mentor mentee relationship with and that really set everything off but most importantly like his ability or his willingness to do that made me think like maybe I am worth doing all this stuff for and maybe I can get all of this stuff done so I think I I determined how valuable my information or my skills were based on how people reacted to it especially back in the in that day what do you think he saw on you that you weren't aware of in yourself I don't know I think he saw like a skill level and a determination that I you know a lot of us are ignorant of that and I'm still I've rated the number one Behavior expert body language expert in the world right now and I still am hesitant to call myself an expert like to this day and I think that's not necessarily humility that I'm trying to force out there what I'm saying is like the more you know the more you realize that you don't know very much oh yeah no doubt especially being exceptionally well read like you every time you read a new book you're like wow I know all that yeah very true I said that many times going through your book [Laughter] yeah they're dated already now too because we've all moved on and we're can continue to consume vast amounts of information to make us better so he sees us in you he gives you this opportunity so what were some of those experiences in that role that you had as a counselor I think I'm still on NDA for most of that stuff all right I can say so I'm again not we don't need nitty-gritty details I'm always curious about the lessons you learned a humbling moment along the way maybe okay so I think one of the biggest things the biggest lesson that I ever got was a interrogator that was you know working for the US Navy in the Middle East was kind of coaching me through this process on like using an interpreter I'll say that and he was like coaching me and saying like you have to teach them a certain way of doing things you have to teach them you don't just teach them language you have to teach them how to walk into the room you have to teach them to stand up straight The Interpreter has to be confident because that's the extension of your voice so if The Interpreter is complacent or docile or submissive or just strange acting you have to teach them that first and that was the biggest Revelation for me which I I would have never processed that information I would have thought like we need to get his Linguistics up to Snuff and we need to get his language usage perfectly so it matches my words but that was a big turning point for me and that and that this this person said it's not that important to coach them on language you just literally tell them say everything that I say you say everything that they say even if there's a mistake don't correct anything don't substitute words and that's the language training then the other part is what takes the the big bulk of everything making sure that their non-verbal communication is on point and not just like let me teach you some body language but I need this person to be confident I have to make someone into a confident person and I can't just say well sit up straight project your voice those are symptoms of confidence not actual confidence and I think no matter how much behavior training somebody's had there's part of our subconscious picks up on that and says oh those are just little display signals that's not real but we don't know it we can't articulate that but there's something in our head that gets that gets clicked just like when we when we decide to trust someone just what your podcast is all about it's not like we're going through some Excel spreadsheet there's hundreds of small little things that are underneath so that even if I've read every persuasion book in the world been to all the training and I have an intention to do you harm or I'm really really doubting myself the trust won't really fully connect someone's going to get a gut feeling right and that's the first the first whole part of every training I do is I open it up by saying you're in the business of manufacturing gut feelings in other people I love that you brought up gut feelings because those are the trickiest things in the world tell me about gut feelings so I think if if this is all of human history here we've been using language for like that much because we've we've spent a long time not using language so our ancestors pass a lot of stuff down to us which is why you'll see a cat who has never seen or been educated about a snake in its entire life you see those YouTube videos where someone sticks a cucumber next to the cat scares the crap out of them you know makes them jump up in the air that's ancestor memory that's going there a small human kid you hold like a six week old baby let's say you hold a baby over like a coffee table or a kitchen counter you'll see their legs kind of start doing that and the parents were like oh these these he knows how to walk no that's just the spinal cord reacting to a flat surface so the ancestors passed down all kinds of stuff but not language so we don't have a structure in our brain for language we have one for visual we have one for olfactory we've got one for all kinds of other stuff we have a sensory cortex but there's no language cortex there's no language piece of the brain it's just a couple of small areas that we use so when we're born we know how to read body language we know how to send appropriate body language and I don't just mean body language I I'm a little turned off by that term but just this non-verbal stuff produces so many gut feelings in other people in fact Malcolm Gladwell talks a lot about this in this book link when he's saying they used to spend these nine hours raiding doctors to see who would get a malpractice lawsuit in the end then they clipped it all down took the words out and you could only hear the tone of voices going up and down and then they put wax paper over the screen and then only showed people the clip for 15 seconds and they estimated it with the exact same accuracy as this nine hour just microscope analysis that's crazy so should people trust their gut feelings I would say most of the time they're pretty accurate so when someone's getting a gut feeling what are they actually getting what's that feeling where's it coming from what's causing it well there's a there's a couple of ways that we will get that coming in but it happens inside of this if we look at the brain in three levels we have The Reptilian which is kind of a spinal cord brain stem area cerebellum then we have the mammalian brain which is kind of like if you just want to copy paste the brain that's you know sitting in your dog's head and on top of that we have the human brain which is the neocortex which literally means new cover in Latin it's the new covering on top of the mammalian brain this is where we have language in the human part of the brain in the Broca's area Wernicke's area but down here in the mammalian part of our brain that thing doesn't speak English it's completely 100 incapable of language so when it processes a thought it doesn't explain it to us it's behind what Malcolm Gladwell called in the book The locked door so we can't like we can't look in there to diagnose and see what's really going on in these thought processes but when it needs to send us a message it literally gives us a feeling in the gut and it gives us some kind of emotion about what to feel about what's going on in front of us because it communicates using emotion and just 90 percent of our serotonin and about 30 percent of all the rest of our neurotransmitters are in our stomach like literally made up in the gut so that's a lot of where those feelings come from nice I like it all right so we've had this great experience of interacting with nefarious folks and using your skills that are developing you're getting good reps in so after this assignment what's next in my career yeah I've kind of had something that happened to me which made me no longer able to go into extreme gun fighting like combat situations okay and I've moved into this other part of the Navy I was a Black Beret is what they call them a riverine which used to be a Marine Corps unit but it was called meseron and there was then it's remembering and I was the captain of a sneaky kind of a Espionage boat for about two years that's pretty cool it was a lot of fun yeah so the human interaction side were able to employ any of that in that job and what did you learn from that not against any adversarial uh people unless you count some of the the kids that were working for me at the time but yeah I definitely did there and I had Pro I think 150 people working for me when we were in the Middle East and we're running intelligence operations we're running security stuff that's going on and there's there's a whole lot of moving parts and this is just right as I was retiring so this is kind of like right at the 2018 towards the end of my career and that was the most fun job I've ever had in the Navy it was just that just being on that boat and being the captain this this cool little boat like an 85 foot yeah boat I'm really curious Chase you've done a lot of really hard study and work academically to understand all this and you're now applying it in real life and getting those reps in as I was talking about was there a discovery you had along the way of what the academics are saying and what you're seeing in practical application was it congruent or did you see incongruence at all I saw there's there's a lot of congruence I think and I think that congruence can trick people into thinking that we can replicate complex human situations inside of a lab and it's like the the DSM as an example the little this is the manual that psychologists use to diagnose a person and they've also kind of convinced they almost had people convinced that all of humanity can fit into this little Excel spreadsheet right and everyone oh I think that's narcissistic disorder and then somebody'll say oh no I think that's histrionic and why can't we just be a human because like we don't fall in this book was made after humans humans weren't made you know after the book so we can fall into multiple categories so it's really hard and a lot of these studies that we see when we study persuasion we study influence even studying interrogations in in Labs you're telling someone I want you to go in this room I want you to pretend like you murdered someone yesterday and you hey college kid over there take this 15 slide PowerPoint on lie detection and go in there and see if you can detect his lies right then they come out and say oh well lie detection doesn't work against a trained person who's been through a PowerPoint on it and I just want you like it sounds like okay well maybe we're simulating that that's the equivalent of telling someone to go into a university and say I want you to pretend like you have diabetes so we can test diabetes we can test diabetes medicine on you just pretend so the stakes aren't there and the real situation isn't there that would make the things happen so I I definitely think that we can't put everything into a lab and I think we put a little too much credibility onto the certification stuff and is it peer-reviewed is it in a journal article and just like because I think what we do is is equal parts Art and Science yeah and I just want you to imagine just for a second somebody watching Hell's Kitchen and looking at Gordon Ramsay and be like no uh none of that's actually true none of those recipes that he's using for that salmon have been proven in a peer-reviewed journal before those recipes must be fake since it's early it's a good analogy so we're getting ready to retire from the Navy what were your thoughts what was next I had no idea and I filled out a resume so just for your listeners I know you know this but when we're transitioning out of the military we're mandated to go to these classes and so they're called taps or GPS and we I'm going in there and they're teaching us how to fill out these words by the way what was your rank when you get out because you had an impressive career I don't want to gloss by that you got a a chief right I was a chief yeah right and so this is for those listening that's an extremely successful career 20 years did you do 20 yes and so congrats on that and thanks for your service anyway I didn't want to digress too much but keep going now thank you uh so we're filling out this resume in this class and I had written the Ellipsis manual already at the time it was on Amazon already and Okay so how how boy let's just talk briefly about the amount of energy it took for you to do that while you're working full time I so what was a spark that made you want to write that at the time when you actually are employed as a chief how'd you do that uh I had a mentor when I was younger 25 or so in Hawaii and out I don't know if he would want me to put his last name out there but his first name was Milton and I told him like well how do these people get so successful and he essentially told me the story of like some people have fun now and some people want more fun later you either have fun now or desire more fun later and and you work for that so I would go to college I would write papers all my friends would go out and party or drink and stuff and I would stay back and I would read and I would do you know college papers and all this kind of stuff Non-Stop and towards the end of the career writing that Ellipsis manual just the bibliography took like four or five months to organize and it would it was every day so I'd come home from work or come off of a mission I'm literally published it while I was in the Middle East when I come off of this Mission and it's like I don't know five six o'clock at night and then I go home maybe crack open a beer sit there until 12 1 in the morning working on this and then get up six seven o'clock again and do the day again but it was just non-stop isn't it the most amazing thing that here you are as you describe when you're younger you have social anxiety so become the world's number one Behavior expert and academically you're struggling and you become an author number one best-selling author it's unbelievable and it still feels weird because like I'm just in Quantum Leap like I've kind of jumped into someone else's life but when I first published the am the Ellipsis manual I looked on Amazon I was like holy crap I have a book that's on Amazon and it had a number one bestseller badge the second day that it was out instantly my first reaction is oh my my mom must have bought I 100 believed my mom went online and wrote like a ten thousand dollar check to buy I don't know that's good what do you think was so powerful for people that it caught on so well I just think it was I wrote the book that I've been looking for my whole life I wanted a book that says Mike here's how to do it and I don't have the book around me right now oh it's right over here it's too far to reach but there's a book by Bob cialdini and Bob cialdini and I just shared a stage together in La five six months ago and the book is what really got me satiated initially like there's some actionable stuff in the book but each chapter there's it talks about here's the research here's the tendency of humans and here's a little more research to talk about that and at the end of each chapter I was just waiting for I turn the pages like now here's exactly how to use this right it never happened that's what I wanted like I want to know how to use it there's a lot of theory and ideas and stuff like that I want tactics and techniques those you know ttps that we talk about in the Navy and Marines tactics techniques and procedures I wanted something like that that was like really hardcore gritty it's got all the details in there and you can use it for just about anything so that's kind of that was the impetus for writing that now I wanted to write the book that I've been looking for my whole life and you did all right so we're transitioning out of the Navy you're going through the transition counseling you already wrote a book because you had this amazing forethought those years prior instead of having pleasure today I'm going to go for happiness later yeah so what was next I filled out a resume and I was going to get a job I've never actually told anyone this outside of my family but I was going to go get a job at the shipyard here in in Norfolk and I was going to just be the guy that fits people's face to the right size paint respirators that was it all right that's gonna be my job and I called up my mentor and I said hey I'm getting out and I want a career but you know I'm filling out this resume just in case he says tear the resume up he said do not write a resume don't plan on getting a job don't do it because if you write a resume you're going to use it you will you will be tempted to use it so he said don't write it write a fake one for the Taps class if you have to but you need to shred it so I said okay and I'm just kind of burned the boats I'm like I'm getting out I have a a teeny tiny well a small sized retirement check that's coming and I won't be homeless but I'm going to try as good as I can to to build a business here what so was he the one that came up with the idea of doing your own business and doing your own thing yes and he said this is you need to turn this into a business is what a gift what a great gift he gave you a gift of kicking you in the ass in a way that no one had yet and having confidence in you when you might not have even had it in yourself yeah what did he see obviously he saw the future how did he do that I have no idea he he saw me speak once I only spoke once during my career to the to a group of civilians and it was a a bunch of car dealerships all in one room and they wanted to know like how do I read a customer you know all of the body language tricks and while I was talking about this I started talking about persuasion and influence and somebody comes up to me after the seminar and says thanks and all this and I'm actually not a car salesman I saw that you were coming here today and I came down I'm a therapist all of these techniques that you develop for interrogations can help therapists and that was the biggest switch in my head I never I never thought about using this stuff outside of the military right and that was kind of the big turning point when I discovered these techniques are almost Universal like you could use it to become a cult leader or you could use it to help somebody with anxiety and depression no doubt Robert Greene's book 48 Laws of Power there's a chapter on how to use this stuff for being occult leader yep absolutely it's crazy and that's kind of what it was it was it's a tool so like this thing can I can write a check to charity with this or I can kill a person with this you know so like the ethics are not in the tool I think the ethics are in the person that's using the tool I'm about to ask you all about the six axis model of influence but since you brought up ethics let's just talk about that briefly how do you use and understand human behavior ethically I think that the way that I teach persuasion and influence especially my Mastery group so this is like a weekly coaching group that we have and I give you so much Behavior profiling and the the first rule that I teach in baby profiling number one thing that everybody learns is to see suffering first so when you see some a-hole cut you off on the highway that's a suffering human being that's probably fearful of being dominated or fearful of looking weak and because something happened to them in their childhood or something happened to them earlier in life that gave them this Behavior so suffering should always be the first thing that you see and I teach profiling in such a way that you're going to see so far behind the curtain that you can't help but feel empathy unless you're a psychopath so the way that I teach it is just leave people better than you found them guaranteed it's completely congruent with everything that this represents but man I love that statement She's suffering first that is a beautiful way of putting it and being of service to others which you've done your entire life all right so six axis model of influence what is it and how can people use it so I I worked my whole life to try to figure out like like kind of like scientists do when there is all of this discussion about like how did the universe start or what's like this universal law of the universe you know I think I forget what they call it I think it's the unified theory is what they call it so I wanted to come up with I'd already come up with the behavioral table of elements like this kind of Unified you know Behavior profiling thing for what it's worth but I wanted to come up with something for influence and I discovered I don't know 10 years ago that there's some techniques you can use that influence the ancestor part of the human being and there's some you can use that influence the human part and when we influence the ancestor we're typically leveraging four things and those are Focus Authority tribe and emotion those are the things our and that kept our ancestors alive like if you're if you're in a village and you walk past a bush every day and suddenly one night you walk past that bush and a stick snaps that your level of focus was extremely important in knowing what to prioritize your focus on so those things we call it the Fate model f-a-t-e Focus Authority trauma emotion that's how to influence an ancestor inside of a human being now to influence the human part of the brain we have six things and those things are I want you just to kind of view as I say these see if you can imagine them as Like An Empty Bottle maybe like a water bottle and some of these have different levels than others and every person you meet is going to have different levels in these bottles so the first one is focus then we have openness and this is how vulnerable somebody's willing to be then we have connection this is the degree of like a interpersonal connection a person feels then we have expectancy expectancy means a person has a generalized belief that something positive is going to happen at the end of this or in the future then we have compliance and compliance just means is different than suggestibility so compliance means will they respond to a command or like hey pass me that thing over there or hey do this then we have suggestibility so suggestibility is will they accept and act on a suggested action so those are the six things so you only need three and you can choose any three on that entire model if you have all six you could rule the world but it's hard to get all six so I want you to think of like the most extreme compliance that's ever happened in psychological research I would probably say is the Milgram experiment and if you're not familiar with it I'll give you a 10 second rundown for for your viewers it's essentially this happened at Yale a volunteer comes into a room they're told hey you need to shock this person every time they get an answer wrong on the test and you every time I get an answer wrong you shock them with higher voltage and higher voltage and higher voltage all the way leading up to this thing that says XXX danger extreme shock and 67 percent of people went all the way to the end they shocked the other person in the room despite screaming and pounding on the wall saying I don't want to do this anymore and finally close to the end the person's quiet silent making no noise so they thought that they were shocking a dead body at this point 67 of people this this has been replicated many times but if you think about this six axis in terms of the Milgram experiment they had suggestibility they had compliance and they had Focus that person had no positive expectation they were not connected whatsoever to anybody that was involved with the experiment and they weren't being open at all they're not being vulnerable or revealing whatsoever so we have almost knocked out three of these things on the model but just because you have these other three which is suggestibility compliance and focus if you fill those water bottles up to the top you can essentially get a person to do anything and you just need three and as a when I get hired to companies to go like train a sales team or something the first thing I'm looking at is how are they working on this x-axis model what are they focused on if I read their sales script or listen to one of their sales calls it sounds like they're really focused on connection and then I can figure out they're failing because they're they're not filling up the expectancy bottle or they're not filling up the focus bottle they're not gaining enough Focus from the other person so those six things are no matter what you learn with behavior profiling or influence if you're in my training anyway when I teach maybe you're profiling you're learning how to identify where a person is on those six things how open are they how focused are they are they being compliant do they have expectancy do we see their eyes light up all that kind of stuff and influence is ways to modify the levels of those six things so out of those six things say you have all the bottles that are empty is there one that might be a little bit easier to start filling and how would you start filling it it's like I paid you to ask that question checks in the mail so focus is absolutely the most easy thing to start filling up so if we go back to just the thing I was talking about a minute ago when the ancestors walking by the bush and the stick snaps anything that is instantaneously novel that we are not expecting automatically fills that Focus about halfway to three quarters and that is typically what you want as your gateway on the six axis your your entry point is usually and should be focused most of the time if you're not going to develop trust with Focus you're not going to develop any of the other things without that person being focused so novelty this injection of something new and unexpected is the fastest absolute most fast way to do this and as a quick example if we have time yeah yeah I was in Stockholm Sweden a year a year and a half ago and the hotel had a booklet like a paperback booklet on the coffee table and it said how to act like a local so like step one was wear black so I turn the page step two don't talk to anyone don't talk to strangers and I said what the hell is this I had no idea about you know the you know Swedish culture so my goal of course I'm gonna Buck the system I'm gonna I'm gonna figure out a trick and people in Stockholm almost I think everyone in Stockholm speaks English pretty much uh so I was like I need to figure out a trick to make these people be really open and receptive to a stranger's conversation so I I thought well I have to use novelty first so I had a picture of a puppy on my phone and I would walk up to a group of people and I would almost kind of push the phone unlocked so it's an unlocked phone and I'm kind of pushing it into a person's hand and I would say sorry do you know how to crop a photo on an iPhone guaranteed that has never happened to them in their entire life I've handed them an unlocked phone I've apologized my sorry was the first opening word that I said so I developed this little system how to talk to people in Stockholm and it works and it works so well because the door is opened through novelty which generates Focus they're looking at a picture of a puppy which is openness and connection starting there and a painting of an unlocked phone which is more connection there and I'm I'm asking them like can you help me do this so they're going to be helping a stranger which they have expectancy starting to get leveled up there we can see it in action everywhere you look yeah I love it I'm recognizing so many things it's good stuff I love third-party references they're so disarming so true seeking thoughts and opinions using assistance themes they're beautiful for forging those early reports and building into Trust No Doubt Chase man time is flying by but I wanted to ask you one question because you've brought it up alluded to it a few times throughout this and we've mentioned it before you know offline imposter syndrome yeah tell me about your imposter syndrome you said you feel I I don't necessarily feel the syndrome but the voice is is still there in my head sitting here as we're speaking on the podcast I can hear that voice like you shouldn't be here this guy's worked for the FBI he's a badass you shouldn't be talking to him that's still going on in my head even while I'm sitting here right now on this podcast and the voices don't go away they do not leave and this is whether you're Dr Phil or your Oprah the voices are still there how you hear the voices is what changes over time and what should change over time and you just I'm hearing fiction but I used to put credibility in in those little thoughts in those little voices but I'm hearing fiction now so it took a while to just change my relationship and know that those little voices that are saying those things are just a kid it's a tiny little kid trying to help you and if you just start hearing it in a little childish voice maybe give that kid a name it's helping you to dissociate from it a little bit but I want I want everybody to know that you're hearing fiction and the mistake we make is trying to get rid of the voices I want you to just as an experiment try to delete Mary had a little land you know the end of that already you can't delete that try to delete that from your mind you can't do it so instead of hearing that one way we're hearing it differently so like if we remember the War of the Worlds podcast or audiobook yep yep if I had heard the beginning of it and I know it's an audio book I know it's fiction and I go to pick you up for lunch and you jump in the car and you think that the world's getting attacked by aliens we're hearing the exact same thing that's coming out of these same speakers going into our heads simultaneously I'm enjoying myself I'm having a good time I'm relaxed I'm looking at the road and you're freaking out your only focus is on this Potential Threat because you're not sure if you're hearing fiction or not I am sure and I don't mean to make everything about you but I just in this example whoever I picked up would be worried because they're not sure if it's fiction or fact I love that you've used so many great phrases and analogies throughout this I've got to go back I'm going to write them all down again Chase what's something you wanted to make sure you shared that I was a horrible host and I forgot to ask you about I don't have anything I I was good we got everything in you wanted to yeah everything's great all right good Chase where can people go to find out more about you and put you in their lives you can just type my name into the App Store yeah and talk about your app briefly I'm on there now so I'll talk about that app briefly so we'll send people there yeah the chase use app is I I read all these books that were like oh you need the Facebook group for marketing and you need to host the you know all this stuff for running a business and I was like well I'm I don't really trust these companies at all and I don't think social media is very healthy for more than five or ten minutes a day because it's and this is from a mind control expert your brain versus a one trillion dollar computer is not going to win it will lose 100 of the time and I want it off so I built a social media Network I created it there where people can take courses they can interact with each other they can talk I'm mandated like there's no data sharing there's no data stealing I don't sell anything everything's private and it's just a great network of people who are all real and genuine there's no ads or anything like that and that's what I wanted to build and it's just a cool badass group of people it is and I'm on it so thank you Chase for doing that putting in that great work and sharing your knowledge and passion for life and how to interact with human beings with the world greatly appreciate it Chase I can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing you with all of us well thanks Robin thanks for having me on thanks for your service brother oh you too thank you for tuning in to another episode of Forge by trust if you took away at least one new idea make a note of it and pass it on to someone else who may need it if you're interested in more information about how I can help you Forge your own trust building communication interpersonal strategies as your coach or as a trust advisor for your organization please visit my website at www.peopleformula.com I'm looking forward to sharing my next Forge by trust episode with you next week when we chat with Mark Bowden and why Trust

Channel: Robin Dreeke

Views: 10,990

Keywords: Descript, influence, forged byt trust, trust, chase hughes, behavior panel, leadership, persuasion, interview, podcast, rapport

Id: 3UfP9EBE5r4

Length: 52min 55sec (3175 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 06 2023