The Psychology of Cult Members and Fanatics

The jogan Experience nobody has any idea how the world works until they plug into a group and the group has its stories that it tells about how the world works every group has its model of what a hero is and this set of beliefs a hero has and and once we've plugged into that group we be you know we Orient ourselves towards becoming that that person and you know Cults are interesting because Cults are like all human groups are kind of Cults but looser so so every human group is a status game in the sense that it's a group of people who um believe the same things and there's sort of rules for being part of that group and the more the better you become at following those rules and and becoming its ideal of self uh the higher you rise up that status game the only between cult and a religion and a business and a political group is just it's much tighter so the rules are much stricter like there's a zillion rules like um you know I've written before about um uh what they call the the the the there was the what was the cult that they cut they castrated themselves yeah Heaven's Gate Heaven's Gate that's right yeah and they had rules even about like how much toothpaste you allowed to put on your your toothbrush they had a they had a rule about exactly how how scrambled eggs were to be cooked and the rule was dry but not burnt so there was a rule about how much B water you put in your bathtub and and was the leader C was he castrated as well no he wasn't surprisingly enough really yeah they were called tea and dough and there he is T yeah just just imagine you are so low in your life that you think that's the guy that has all the answers is that a tribal thing this is what I've always assumed that that's just some hold over from when we were a part of groups of 150 people that needed a leader and generally that leader would be some old warlord he's probably like 35 like you know back then but like had gone through a lot and was a strong leader was someone that you admired as a leader and maybe in in these tribal times that's baked into our DNA and when someone comes along and speaks confidently yeah I am never confident I'm never confident about if you're so confident about all these thoughts and about where what life is about and where we're going and what awaits us and if you follow these rules God that's so confident I'm not that confident so I could get sucked in yeah any human could get sucked in but is that what it's from is it from tribal times yeah yes and no so one of the really surprising things about tribes the tribes in which we evolved is is that the idea of the big man is a bit of a myth so so they were kind of leaderless like leaders would Bubble Up by consensus when say we wanted to solve a particular problem to do with hunting then the best hunters would be deferred to and what do you think um so the but at some point in time they became leaders I mean they've been leaders for so long when we settled down when was that like agriculture yeah that was about 11,000 years ago don't you think that's enough to bake it into our DNA I I don't know I think what is in our DNA is that idea of a um stories so so you know we're storytelling animals we thinking stories every tribe has its particular story about the world and so we we're very good at channeling those stories and and and as I said every story has its design of what is a hero and we we try and become that kind of hero so so that's that hold over from the from the from the tribal day but more fundamentally is again it's that that brain question of who do I have to what do I have to do tell me what I have to do in order to achieve connection and status and that's what a cult does it's and that's what a charismatic leader does it tells you this is what you've got to do these are the rules this is you have this is who you have to become and that's really seductive to us subconsciously because those those two things of connection status are so incredibly important to us yeah it's is it is it something you think should be taught like very early on it seems like this is information we should get to kids as young as we can so they can recognize these patterns that people foll to absolutely I've always thought that that there should be a lesson in school about what is a human what is the basic operating system manual for a human and these are the mistakes that humans make because as I said you know one of the sort of Big Ideas is that we we're not particularly interested in the truth we don't the truth is doesn't matter to human brains what matters is what do I what do I have to believe in order to for people to like me and respect me well that's why religions like even radical religions are so intoxicating like you have to be all in you're part of a very special group and you all love each other like brothers and sisters because you're part of this group yeah and you can come up with some radical ideas and get people to subscribe to that especially if you attach things like death for people who leave yeah you know yeah yeah that's you're operating in some Redline territory like that's a wild group and and the religions and the Cults always do that thing of offering amazing rewards but of course got point in the future bro Heaven it's the best spot ever and the version of Heaven diff between how bad the place where you live sucks yeah and it's like I think there's like there's like eight and a half billion people in the world and the amount of I think it's like 500 million atheists so that just shows you how many how wired we are to believe basically any old [ __ ] we're told to believe as long as it we feel like it's going to get a status and secure connection into a supportive Group Well I remember during the suicide bomber days when that was something that was in the news all the time they talked about 72 virgins and that these gentlemen thought that they were going to get 72 virgins in heaven like that is so cultural yeah like if you offered 72 virgins to a Christian they'd be like what the [ __ ] are you talking about I'm not [ __ ] any virgins you crazy psycho how old are they what are you saying I'm not a pedophile dude I just like women what the [ __ ] you know what I'm saying it's like yeah but I'm not sure how I mean I don't know if that 72 version think is true I think there could be like 21y old versions that have been saved for This Moment by the great one but I think that term is not real I think the term 72 virgin is like saying how you know how many times have you lost your phone a [ __ ] million it's like that kind of a you know it's not it's an exaggeration but I think the real I think the real promise there though I mean the 72 virgins is yeah but but I think the real promise for suicide bombers is again its status it's like if you sacrifice your life on behalf of the group's Mission you're a hero you're like a god yeah and so so so that's the promise and and again I think it's a really good example of how human beings value status over their lives yeah I mean that's how much we value status we we're the only animal that kills oursel which is just a weird thing in itself that an animal would voluntarily end its own life and very often the reason that people kill themselves is because it's a sudden drop in status or they feel completely isolated and alone so so so they're lacking in those essential kind of Psychological Resources to such an extent that they you know end their own lives and that's how much we value these things and suicide bombers are another manifestation of that like like if you're going to consider me a hero and if Muhammad is going to consider me a hero strap me up brother you know that that's how much that that's how crazy we become about these these social rewards God that is such an insane belief it's so insane and when the the most evil thing is when you hear about them talking kids into doing it yeah you know a young child you know you're getting a I mean what is the youngest suicide bomber they've ever used I don't know just the idea that you can buy into it so much that you're willing to let your children go do that yeah but it's wild it's it's evil if you think it's this kind of calculating um uh kind of mathematical algorithm of Advantage but but but they sincerely believe it they really believe it's true right I mean you know I've been as a when I before was an auth I was a journalist I've been meeting kind of crazy people including Nazis um as part of my journalistic career and that's one of the things that always strikes me is that they they really believe it this crazy stuff so so it's not evil in the sense that um they're doing anything calculating by talking their children into being suicide bombers they think they're doing something heroic they think they're doing something amazing as did the Nazis as as did the Communists as yeah as do the KKK there people they can fall into belief structures and they they don't necessarily have to make sense but if they find enough supportive people around them that also believe that then it becomes part of their tribe identity yeah and it can get it could be really stupid we're [ __ ] way more vulnerable than we like to believe that's one of the things that I was saying like when I watched those cult documentaries part of me is like thank God I didn't run into those people thank God they would have got me and and when they look at the psychology of people that are vulnerable to falling into Cults it's very often people that have struggled to fit into the status games of ordinary life so they got the family hasn't worked the job hasn't worked H haven't worked so they've got no identity they've got no tribe so they're really vulnerable to these Cults which what Cults offer is absolute certainty yeah if you cook your scrambled eggs this way if you uh only put two Ines of water in your bath you're going to you know the um the UFOs will come down and they're going to take you to the level above that's what they were offering T the level above wear the Nikes though remember you have to wear the purple Nikes but yeah that's right and there's this crazy Memoir of one of one one of the guys who was in this group he cut he he didn't he didn't cut his own balls off he left before the ball cutting but he was but he was jealous like like he wanted to have his balls cut and there was there was only one person that could have it done at the beginning and I had they flipped a coin and he was really annoyed that he lost the coin flip oh my God but what was interesting about his Memoir was he said that people talk about brainwashing and Cults and people talk people talk about um how we were forced to follow these rules but we wanted to follow the rules like not following the rules would be like being a NASA astronaut and just not caring about how the Space Shell works you know so so so so so they're not they don't consider themselves brainwashed they consider themselves well they're just in a status game like like any other status game it's just a very very strict one right well that's why you know one of the fascinating things about some Cults is that they use very bizarre language and that they all agree to it they have like specific terms that they say like doesn't Scientologist they'll call people they have like an abbreviation for someone who's like a hostile person what is it that they do because I remember someone was so so explaining to me someone who left the church was explaining to me how like if someone would be hostile you have like a very specific way you describe them and that they all do it in the group and it's like suppressive persons that suppressive persons yes you're a suppressive person potential trouble sources dude I ordered Dione in like 1994 I had just moved to LA and I thought it was a self-help book I was like all right yeah [ __ ] look at your brain's going to explode you're going to get your [ __ ] together look at all these people that are succeeding on diic you know I was 26 or whatever I was so I ordered this book and they never stopped sending me things I mean they [ __ ] never stopped sending me things was there ever a point when you thought hang on a minute this is quite interestes no all right no no once I realized it was Scientology I was like oh Dianetics is Scientology yeah I was like okay but then part of me was like damn a lot of these Scientologist are doing really well in Hollywood like maybe that's a good cult to join maybe if they just let me be me cuz it seems like that was part of it there was a big Allure of how many successful people were following that religion I mean some of the most successful actors Tom Cruz is one of the most successful actors of all time and he's literally the poster boy for that yeah that's right I I it's somebody was saying to me the other day that they thought that actors were particularly susceptible to Scientology because they've got this weird they don't really have an identity actors they they were always sort of slipping into everybody from people I thought that was interesting especially if you're you probably lose who the [ __ ] you are who am I am I Rocky I the Michigan possible guy yeah well well when they're walking around everybody treats them that way like I'm sure they treat Stallone like he's Rocky and yeah you know you got to give respect to Tom Cruz though because Tom Cruz is like 60 years old and he still does his own stunts including jumping on motorcycle off a cliff yeah that's how much he believes in this stuff yeah but but that's but that's why these these groups are kind of functional as well it's like I kind of have a weird kind of sympathy like what I grew up in a very strict Catholic household with very strict Catholic parents and I was very I hated it I was very rebellious as a teenager and I guess in my 20s and 30s I was very very atheist and you know hated religion um but but then I kind of did a lot of This research and and when you once you accept that what humans need to be healthy psychologically and physically his connection and status you see that that that's actually what religion provides people that that's what religion provides my parents is that they're connected into community and they feel important they feel they're good Catholics because my dad conducts the choir and you know this that and the other and so that that that's invaluable that's what humans need to survive and in our you know in the in in the current world in the huge uh populations in which we live it's very hard to feel securely connected I mean as you said a moment AG the tribes in which we evolve were very small like 30 to 50 people so it's quite easy to feel securely connected it was quite easy in that environment to feel important like valued by other people I mean probably the that it was not rare in the tribe to feel in invaluable like you're needed because everybody was needed there wasn't many people around to find the tubers and catch the rabbits or whatever um but in this day and age in these huge groups in which we belong to it's it's much harder to feel relative status because you're competing with millions of people especially online so and I think that's a of a huge amount of sort of mid misery in the modern world it's stress sort of I call it identity anxiety you identity stress we we are we feel really unsatisfied with the amount of connection and status that we have because we we we exit in these [ __ ] massive International tribes now

Channel: PowerfulJRE

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Id: WGc4CsTVxis

Length: 14min 51sec (891 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 14 2024