The Mindset of a Mom and Scholar on Raising Kids | Kate Spanos EP 29

having delivered to children I know I'm capable of great things it's actually very empowering and I found that that experience of Labor and Delivery there's a beautiful human on the other side of it nobody has ever regretted having more children but I have heard people have like regret having fewer and I just want to say I don't know like to young women that are you know struggling with that like childbirth doesn't mean the end of your life it's just there's so much promise and like empowerment that like comes through that so and I know it's exhausting I know that it's hard but good Lord the best things in life are very difficult because they give you amazing Rewards [Music] hello everyone welcome back to my podcast today I'm speaking to Kate Spanos Kate Spanos is a full-time mom of Two and a full-time student at Ralston College's ma program she spent the first 18 years of her life in the same house before moving to New York City for her undergrad degree since then she has spent her time making a home with her husband Nate reading books aloud to him and to their children and welcoming many people into their home for food and conversation I met Kate Samus Island Greece where she was studying her a degree with Ralston College we visited there for a week or two and uh we went to Istanbul together as well and one night I sat beside her at dinner and we had a really lovely conversation uh that focused quite a bit on the fact that she was a mother and getting her master's degree in Humanities we um talk about motherhood we talk about the program as well and we talked about some of our experiences really at the cave of Saint John in Patmos turkey that was that was very interesting and I I've had a really good time speaking with her it was very nice to see her and her husband Nate again thank you all for watching and I really hope you enjoyed this episode [Music] hi Keith hi Tammy how are you I'm good thank you so much for coming onto my podcast I'm really excited to speak with you it's a real honor thanks so uh just so my viewers have an idea of why we're speaking could you just tell them a little bit about how we met and um what you're up to yeah so I met you Tammy uh in Turkey I believe actually um when you and your husband came to speak at an event for Ralston College um where my husband and I both got accepted into their inaugural master's program so we are both doing that and you and I ended up talking uh sitting next to each other at dinner which was lovely and talking about being a mom which was not the norm of uh the conversations I was having in um in that context uh as there are no other students that are mothers at this at this time for this 24 um 24 student cohort so we kind of connected on that and it was very refreshing oh that's good to hear yeah well I think that the conversation we're going to have today is an important one because here you are uh married you have one little boy and you're expecting another baby yes and my little girl I have a boy and a girl oh yeah yeah a boy and the girl that's right that's right so you're very busy woman yes so why why in the world would you do a masters in humanities yeah yeah wow there's so many ways I could answer that um I think that first off uh I could tell you how it happened and then I can tell you kind of why that inspired me so much um so when my husband came across the link that your husband had posted he was like Kate we need to apply to this um and I was like Nate I'm a mom I'm about to have a bait well I'm not about to but I'm expecting like I don't have time for this and he's like listen it's we we need to do this and I'm like okay fine he's like we're not gonna get in we're just we'll apply and so I sat down and as soon as I started looking up um what Ralston was about it just reminded me of all the things that I really loved in college and has had kind of really enjoyed and really uh loved learning but had kind of Left Behind as um I got married and we had a kid right away and you know jumped into this whole new life of being a mom and a wife and moved from to Florida and then back to where I'm from in Pennsylvania and um just all these different you know I didn't really have time for a lot of the things I had really held dear in college in terms of learning or academic Pursuit and I read to each other some of um more or less academic books um uh here and there not a whole lot but it was just we're always discussing things or talking about things or he would listen to some of your husband's lectures and then like he would he would do the speed version and then like break it down and then we'd talk about it together and that was always really really cool and so as soon as I started reading about this um Humanities program I was like wow this is actually kind of a part of me that's Lane dormant for the last eight to ten years um and I really care about this stuff and then I think I may have had to justify it to myself or at least put it in my essay as I'm you know applying like why why would I do this as a mom and I think for me um the the okay so the theme for this year at Ralston is the Discovery or of the self and what does it mean to be human and uh how are we we're exploring those themes throughout history and art and all these you know the what do the Greeks have to say and um and I think that as a mom especially that's important because I'm raising little humans and if I don't understand what it is to be human like how can I how can I raise them well um and so anything that's going to point me in the right direction of being a a fully a fully human person a fully flourishing human is only going to benefit my kids which is kind of my calling right now this is what I am doing as being a mom but I don't see that in contrast with the master's program I actually see them kind of working together even though it's really intense right now and even though it means spending less time with them in certain areas than we have been used to uh it's still worth it because I'm becoming a better person and learning more and not just learning about but like hopefully putting into practice you know what does it mean to be who a human and then I can like help show that to them lead by example I hope and and uh yeah and I think that will only benefit uh my two that are born and then the one on the way so does that answer your question yes that answers my question thank you very much yeah so I found that fascinating that you decided to go back to school and that thinking and that you had the wisdom to realize that educating yourself in this manner would inform your mothering and make you and make you a better mother and I mean it's not that's not rocket science or anything but still I don't know how many people go to study something to say this is going to help me as a mother or this is going to help me inform these little humans to grow up to be more informed humans you know and um that's something that isn't I don't think thought of very often because kids people are thinking let's see should I go to university or should I get married and have a baby like they're separate things yeah like are they separate things no I don't think so I think well and I think that you're touching on something like in in America and probably in Canada too there's this idea of um just like there's this division of like I can do this or this and like if there's some truth to that like yes every choice you make is gonna have consequences but I think it's a myth to say that like you're only a mother or you're only a grad student you're only as like only an intellectual it's like you can listen all day to intellectuals talk about great ideas but at the end of the day there's still a human that had a mother and like grew up somewhere and that shaped them and formed them um and and I think that's just you know really important we try to like divide it and there's really not not a division there and I think actually that's something that I can bring to the program as like my perspective like a holistic approach to the human self not just this is what I think or this is what I do or these are my appetites it's like the whole person and and that is really what we're trying to study um how old are your kids how old are your kids now yeah Solomon is six and he so he's a boy and then Evangeline is two almost three she'll be three in a couple weeks actually and my baby is due in January oh yeah January what day is your baby due the 13th 13th oh that's very cool I have I have January people uh my daughter my daughter's a January person and my brother's wife is a January person yeah and uh they're Fascinating People and very engaged in life both of them you know my my sister-in-law is uh president of the Rotary Club on the west coast in America you know in Canada in America wow and so she and my my brother are very active in the Rotary Club and then well Michaela she's you know busy doing all kinds of creative things and so I'm very curious to know who this little person is going to be me too yeah me too it's a girl oh it's a girl it's a girl yeah oh that's so cool did you want to know that or did they accidentally tell you no we wanted to know actually um because we were moving and we couldn't bring all the baby clothes it was actually very helpful to know like which gender but I was 100 sure it was a boy and I was so surprised oh um yeah yeah well you might be surprised again who knows yeah it's true I guess that's true yeah we don't really know until the whole thing is done until the deed is done yeah that's for sure so what are you learning now in in uh at Ralston what do you are you still what are you doing now you must be done with Greek are you no actually so Greek is a continuing class which is really good because um everything that I know about language is if you don't use it you lose it yeah which I can already like we're not in as an intense of a Greek environment and I can already tell like okay this is like gonna take extra work because we're not surrounded by it all the time um so we we do have a great class and then we're also right now we have a literature and literature and philosophy class I think and then there's like an art and culture lecture series um are those all different professors who are teaching that yes oh so the Greek Professor is the same as uh he's Dr conlon from when he was with us in Greece and then Dr Bryson is doing the literature and philosophy and then we have guest lectures come in as well so we do like a slow reading and then have guest lecturers and then they also have um the art and culture lectures once a week and this is really only week two so we've had one one of those those uh already and um that class is under Dr Nicole blackwood's instruction oh cool yeah it's so fascinating it's just been a delight so right now we're reading the Symposium we're reading it in English we also have the Greek like right next to us so we're you know able to like pick out some words and be like oh okay like let's yeah do you get better understanding do you get do you think you get better understanding seeing the Greek I think the point I don't there may be some students that are like proficient enough to actually like read it and gather um some pretty good meaning for me it's more of like I can pick out words and it's also just to remind me this is the original language what I'm reading is a translation and we've just talked about that as like a very important perspective um to know that something is always Lost in Translation or always interpreted in Translation and so it's just that visual reminder of like okay if you're having a hard time understanding what's like this may be a translation issue essentially whether through the Through the Ages or also through the language yeah right because often if you're reading something that's translated you look to see who the translator is so that you yeah right so you can be more assured to have a a more complete translation of the work and it's fascinating because even knowing like where a translator is coming from and like their their perspective right can help you like figure out like I think about the Bible like translating the Bible all the time like if you know a little bit about the perspective that the translators are coming from you're like okay that's going to be read into this version yeah the time the time that they translated it and yeah and who they were yeah and what they were doing and how what their values were yeah right right it's inescapable it's inescapable and and the thing is we really do or at least I do for sure rely on the Bible the word of the Bible I rely on that and try to get my you know my I try to find my way yeah with that so it's important yeah I think that in some ways that was one of the most exciting things about this program for me is because in the last couple of years I've just seen how different branches of Christianity can realize again rely so much and it's almost like splitting hairs and it's like well we're not even using the Greek text like are we splitting hairs over something that really matters or is this not you know I think we've what we've brought our culture to the Bible just as much as like who and why and what it was written and so one of the things that was exciting about learning Greek was like wow I can hopefully someday be proficient enough to go and read the New Testament in its original language and just soak in that and you know kind of clear away some of those cultural misunderstandings that I think we just you know swim in because it is important to me too yeah have you heard of um Matthew paggio has written a book called the language of creation have you heard of that I think so yeah I bet it's been mentioned it's a really it's 150 pages so it's not long it's a really short book it's written kind of like a computer programmer's Guide to the Bible and he is a computer programmer so he is mathematically minded yeah and he talks about how to understand the symbolism in the in the Old Testament and I read it uh a few months ago and interviewed him and Jordan hasn't read it and interviewed him as well and uh we're hoping that he will uh become more part of the conversations that people are having or around the biblical stories because he's uh really got an amazing mind to understand how to understand the symbolism in The Bible you know George dad was reading the book of John he said I read the book of John but I really didn't understand it and I thought I said you know you got to read Matthew pastrow's book because it's all about how to understand the symbolism in The Bible and so I recommend that it's uh thank you it was I didn't find it hard to read although the the way of understanding symbolism is so different from how we would usually read a book yeah that it like he said it'll take you a while reading through the book to start to understand what it means the flow of the book and understand how it's relating to the Bible because it's a different way of looking at it and so yeah that's very exciting thank you for that I actually we're reading through John right now and um oh in Greek and um so there's so much I'm missing but oh yeah I would love to like I wonder how much yeah I would love to read that so thank you for that recommendation all oh you're welcome yeah yeah look it up you can I just have it on my Kindle so you can get it you can get it quickly yeah and there's there's a few there's diagrams in it as well to help you understand and nice ah so this so in literature is is the study of John through the literature part of your program it's actually through the Greek part no it's through the Greek part oh I see huh will you go back to Greece or will you go to any other on any other trips out of North America not for the uh program as it is right now okay okay so that was well that was an amazing trip though I mean I went yes with I wasn't only with you in Turkey I was also with you on Samos Island yes Greece yes and that was a staggeringly beautiful place oh it was amazing and the water was wonderful and I imagine that going swimming right now would be very comfortable for you yes I'm very tired I'm very tired but I think that just kind of comes with the territory I remember the last month being ridiculously tiring I was sleepy all the time yeah thankfully that last month so our term finishes on December 9th so I'll kind of have that last month to um just prep for Christmas be with family and not worry about the extra studies so oh perfectly good yeah perfect perfect so is your six-year-old Solomon is he he's going to school he is yeah he just started um last Tuesday he had a shadow day right when we got here and then um he had his first official day last Tuesday and he came home and he's like I can't wait to go back tomorrow oh that's nice that was such a good feeling for me because I had homeschooled him last year and I I don't think I had time to be nervous about it this year like sending him somewhere but just there's just so many things that are changing I definitely it's such a relief to to know that he's in good hands and to know that he loves it so much yeah so you found a good school that was a traditional it's a classical Christian School they start teaching Latin in second grade so he's not there yet but it's so cool that's great and how does it go from one to six or does it go from grade one to twelve in K to 12. actually okay four to twelve okay yeah oh that's great yeah oh yeah and so then all your kids will go there probably if it's a good if we yeah I mean we don't have plans to we don't have plans basically past this program we're not originally from here so we we have a place to live until the end of the program and then we're kind of like most of our stuff actually is in Pennsylvania still oh right right so you're in you're in um Savannah we are in Savannah yeah oh of course oh yeah yeah oh sure and so are all the students in Savannah we are yeah okay yeah and do you so they were renovating buildings when we were in Greece yeah are the buildings renovated or how are things going yeah I think we are in a we're in a little different situation because we have a family so we have a house through the college but everyone else is living in an inn and that's the part they did they've got all the building inspections and all that stuff like they're all it's all good um but they're still working on the kitchen um and making that usable um for their staff so the students won't be able to use the kitchen anyway but the staff will provide meals um for the students and they are doing that just not like on site I think it's a more like bringing stuff in so that's definitely up near and then um tomorrow actually they're doing a tour of the noble hearty house pre-renovation and then they're hoping to work on that throughout December or November and December and hopefully for January we would be able to have some classes in there but that's like one of the most historic and like beloved houses apparently in Savannah so it's very exciting to to know that Ralston has that as one of their properties but yeah they're definitely still working the only ones I knew of when when had been an old historic house that was used as a an antique shop okay and then there was one right across from where Stephen and Nicole live okay a mansion there I know that they have that building but this sounds like a different building as well yeah um there's one on Gaston Street and then the noble Hardy house I think is it's not on I think that's a little I'm not actually sure but so they've got a boat they have four yeah three or four buildings so it's coming it is yeah yeah it's funny because we used we used to see Stephen and Nicole's always been busy because she was a professor at the college at the art college but we would see Stephen now and then and he was always trying you know in the process of getting this University or this college going and now it's going and I think well we won't see Stephen anymore because he's busy yeah for sure yeah so you guys are busy and you're and you're both in the program and how are you finding that that you're both studying I imagine it's kind of helpful that you have each other yeah it is it's it's a challenge with a blessing and a challenge because on the one hand we can read together like Nate can read to me while I'm doing things around the house or I can read to him while he's doing stuff and so that's really cool because we have a built-in and also reading it aloud I think is um actually like helps you learn differently so that's been a benefit um but then there's also the this part about like we study differently and so if we're kind of like waiting for each other okay we need to like settle in and figure out like this is a time that we're studying independently this is the time that we're doing it together um but it's really only been this is our I guess we just finished our second week we're going to into week three of eight for a term sorry they're short terms but um I think we'll find a rhythm I mean first week was really just settling in like we needed to get all the paperwork for being Georgia residents and like because I'm delivering a baby we're like we need to be Georgia residents right so we did all that all that work the first week and then like second week was getting Solomon settled into school and now third week I'm like okay this is like the real week where we're like being students and a family and here we go so I'm hoping it'll iron itself out but it's beautiful to hear though that you are um working as a family you're doing you're you're working and you're a family and you can do all those things and even set up a new home yeah while you're expecting a baby and you have two little kids and you know supporting each other like you're doing and um there's got to be a lot of a negotiation yeah for sure for sure I think there is and we have a pretty good foundation for communication which has been wonderful but I do think I I just I don't know um necessarily who your listeners are but I just want to say like I think the reason I'm able to do this program is because I have given birth to children and I think I probably would have been too intimidated um but having delivered to children I know I'm capable of great things and so right so it's just one of those it's actually very empowering and I found that that experience of delivery labor and delivery to be like yes of course there's the pain and all that but it's so empowering and there's a beautiful human on the other side of it and it's just like wow I'm capable of great things like I can do this and I just want to say I don't know like to young women that are you know struggling with that like childbirth doesn't mean the end of your life it's just there's so much promise and like empowerment that like comes through that so anyway I agree I agree with that totally and you know um there's a new book out called super abundance by Marian tupi who's uh he runs uh human progress.org and he said that for every child born they bring seven times the amount of uh opportunity and uh economic worth and so it you know in the giving and I think in the giving birth we call it giving birth you know which is very cool it's it's a uh you know in in the Bible they talk about service you know that that that's what we are destined to to live a good life you have to live a life of service giving birth is service that for the greater good you know and that's true I'm sure that's true you know I have children and now I have grandchildren and Jordan you know we travel all over the world and what do we want to do we want to be with our grandchildren yeah you know when I'm away I just miss them my heart pulls for my grandchildren it's it's inside of me it's innate it's an innate need to be there and to be informing and and uh also uh nurturing and uh and just enjoying the the joy that comes from a child my little granddaughter is six months old and she smiles all the time and she'll make these cooing noises and then when you look at her she just gets your eyes and then she smiles and smiles and smiles all she wants to do is be in contact with you you know it's it's just so beautiful to see and to deny a child of that you just don't want to no you no you just want to give them what they need and they are very sure of what they need they need attention that's what they want right that's what they want who was I talking to I was talking to someone who was working and he was working and his son little son like a two-year-old son was pulling on his pants all the time and and trying to get his dad's attention and trying to get his dad's attention finally his dad realized he was working at a um at a finance job you know finally he realized you know what this little two-year-old is asking for my attention and so I'm going to stop doing this job and I'm going to find I know what he was I know what he was he was a a soldier who had come back from the war and had some PTSD like they all do because they see horrible things and do horrible things that they can't you know come to terms with and it's no wonder but he came back and he was at this Finance job and he had this car this not Zippy car to get him back and forth to work and he had his son pulling on his leg and he thought I'm going to stop doing this Finance work I'm going to give back the car I'm gonna buy a car for kids and I'm going to get a job with a local job testing the water this was in Amsterdam testing the water around making sure that the ecosystem was good and so now his kid likes the new car because he sees it's a car for him to be a part of and he has all this time with his child now because he can take he can take him to work with him and so and he said that allsptsd is gone wow yeah that's beautiful isn't that so beautiful yeah yeah you know children they bring us and they and they keep us young they remind us of being young right my grandmother when she was at least 90 she died when she was 98 so I think she was around 90. she said she couldn't remember being young anymore the only time she could remember is when she was around children oh and so they do they keep they they remind us of when we're young and and to see through a child's eyes means to see something for the first time yes I love that Wonder yeah yeah yeah and we get and you get to do that every day because you have these little kids yeah thank you for the reminder I think we've been so busy it's just like oh yeah that is it's just so good to be oh yes like yeah oh my god oh you're so tired right now and but the beauty of what they're of who they are like I know that but to be reminded again of like oh yes like the Delight involved in you know just looking just looking at my kids you know and just yeah and I try to do that just like watch them do whatever it is they do yesterday too and he was so busy he was so building busy building Towers out of blocks and uh you know and wondering what to do with his six-month-old sister you know like this can I play with her do I can knock her over like what did you do it there right right yeah it's like no no you don't knock her over yeah that's not loud yeah but so cute and so necessary so necessary for in order to go to school and to learn and to have those children to benefit from that has got to be motivating hmm for sure because I wonder if you would have done it with if you didn't have these little kids I think I would have been totally a different person it's hard to it's hard to know what would have happened I think having children just changes your perspective on who you are as a person um and I think I probably would have been I'm not making this as a blanket statement for everyone but I know for myself like I think I would have been more selfish like I think I I think I just would have been oriented around like what's my life what's my decision what's my next move or Nate you know what's us what are we doing together that kind of thing and there's not necessarily anything wrong with that but I think having children does change that and it's like all of a sudden it's like it's not just my decision it's also what is that going to do for the next generation and where are they going and it's kind of connects us actually it's really connected us to our parents I think in a way that um in a way that we wouldn't have had had we not had children like we understand we have a lot more grace for our parents because we understand now what we put them through and uh yeah yeah I bet that's true yeah because I go over to my son and his house and I think wow they're busy you know I just look at them paying attention to their little kids and I think and I know that they're just I think Jill said I I got a full night's sleep last night first one in six months yeah and uh she was just so tired that when the baby woke up at four in the morning she thought oh in a minute and then the baby went back to sleep and so they slept through the night that's wonderful yeah it was like there's nothing like that there's such a good feeling that's right that's right but but wow um a feeling of gratitude for even a full night's sleep right so it gets it's through responsibility that we that like you said we find Grace we find gratitude we find thankfulness because our cup is full our cup is completely full and um you know and through and it's not all it's not all wonderful it's a lot of responsibility more responsibility than you could ever imagine really to have little kids right and it's constant when don't you have that responsibility because yeah they're either sleeping or awakened it's the same thing you still have responsibility it's just never gone no wonder you're tired yeah yeah for sure as your as your pregnancy been uh good yeah so I I didn't I was a little bit sick I was pretty sick for a couple weeks in the in the first trimester um but thankfully that cleared out before we went to Greece and now as I'm getting larger like I don't have to be as mobile as we were in Greece so kind of like that part of the term really or the program was really ideally placed for me in terms of like Comfort but even so like I I don't have really a lot of time to like worry about anything um but I think having that mindset of like my body knows what it's doing I'm not going to worry I'm deciding not to be anxious about this like it's gonna be fine it's just it's good the the body is amazing the doctors are checking in on me I'm fine the baby's fine it'll be good yeah yeah yeah so I'm tired but no other complaints oh that's really good I'm glad to hear that yeah and I know some women it's just so hard it's just so hard and I feel well you know those are easy those first two months being sick those first two months are a sign so I've heard they're a sign of Health for the fetus so that morning sickness that people report is uh is a good sign so yeah you know feel that first some people feel sick throughout the entire pregnancy I don't think that that's normal but who knows you know we eat so many different things now and we yeah we are um subject to so many different forces of energy forces physical forces noise oh just all kinds of things like who knows what gets in the way of of a of a very easy child birth but those first I know that those first I think the first trimester you you can be sick and think well that's normal that's kind of normal yeah so that's that's good for anybody who's wondering about that yeah yeah for sure because uh that's not that's nothing to worry about yeah and I also felt as long as you weren't super hungry it wasn't so bad so I used to have to carry some something to snack on and then I wasn't so in the uh and I didn't feel so nauseous yes yeah yeah I definitely did that in Greece as well just because I would be hungry or like need energy I'm like I'm not getting enough at meals I don't have enough time and then you can't eat you know you're just like when you're on traveling it's just all different so I had I had my snack bags with me all the time wherever we went but that one day that we went to um the Basilica of St John and it was hot yes it was really hot and I was wandering around just trying to stay in the shade and I saw you wandering around trying to stay in the shade too but I wanted to I wanted to talk a little bit about going to going to Patmos and going to the cave of Saint John because you you went there too but on a different day from when I went yeah what did you what did you think of that oh my goodness that was actually one of the most moving moments um for my time in Greece and it's hard to articulate um but I'll do my best and then I would if we have time I'd love to hear what it was like for you also oh I'll tell you oh good okay so I didn't someone had asked me like oh are you excited to go to Patmos this is where St John was I was like I mean okay sure like I just didn't I didn't really think about it I was like okay it's part of the program but I didn't have any like specific like excitement for it and so I think I was very surprised we we got to the monastery and um you know there's no cameras allowed and you know you're kind of being ushered into this space um that is you know like from external like being told externally like this is important this is Holy like this is sacred be respectful um but I and I think that's important but I think in some ways like just being there um I did have this sense of Holiness and sacredness just being like sitting in in this cave and it was it was overwhelming and it was one of those things I ended up I ended up it was very moving um and the moment in which I began to really cry and like weep like silently but so weep was actually um one of our uh friends and teachers uh is Greek Orthodox and so she was going up to um touch the place where John's head and hands had been I guess his hand like where he would have gone I mean there was a line of people you know her offering reverence and and honor and she just kind of there was someone else in line who was kind of taking a longer time and so she just kind of like touched it and like kissed her hand and or maybe the other way I'm not sure it was just this very like quiet like it wasn't a big whole production and then she like moved on to you know another place and I just began to weep and I think I had this sense of I have uh I felt so profoundly the lack of how do I say this gracefully tradition I need I felt so hungry for a tradition that gave me something to know how to deal with this on to to deal with the sacredness and I and I feel like that's um you know something that the Greek Orthodox Church does well and other other church and the Catholic Church perhaps like I'm not as familiar but you know I just haven't grown up Evangelical and I'm not trying to knock evangelicals at all that's not what I'm saying that's not it I just I felt so I felt so like my time like the Evangelical tradition is not that long I guess is what I'm saying and it was like here's a tradition that has connected like goes back and back and back and back and has given these people these adherents I suppose however you would say a language and a like a form of reverence to deal with this is the holy and to when you encounter the holy like here's how we respond and I think I felt like I'm in this place I know it's holy I know it's sacred but I have no I don't even know how to like genuflex properly like I don't I don't know um how to respond with other anything other than weeping you know in this in this presence of Holiness and I hope that made sense like it was just this beautiful moment of and I hope again I was like tactful towards um you know the tradition in which I was raised I'm not trying to disrespect that at all it was just a moment of realization of I think there's more I think there's more to be said um and more to connect I guess like our bodies to what's happening in that spiritual realm of like I can sense that this is Holy but how do I express it so it was a beautiful moment I don't know yeah and that what it really stuck with me is like one of the impacting moments of my time in Greece I felt the same way I thought you know I mean I was there and now I've been to Jerusalem as well because we went to Jerusalem afterwards and then we went to Athens wow yeah that's where my my mind finally was completely blown by this yeah yeah I was like oh my goodness it's going to take me five years to absorb all of this process and all yet but yeah the day we went to patma so I also didn't I also uh my my faith I have faith but it's Raw it's pretty raw it isn't a practice it is a practice now but the practice is pretty new right so I do I pray every day um and but I haven't even really chosen I haven't really chosen my Congregation of who I'm going to share that with so I went there as uh I went there as someone who was looking for humility and so I prayed on the way there and you know you we took a ferry we took a ferry from the island to Turkey and uh we got to the monastery and climbed up there and it was a cobblestone climb out into uh it was a very sunny day a very warm day and we went into the cave and there was a um a service going on so the monks were there um there was and at first I didn't see them all there were three there there was one that was in in behind and uh you know doing the uh whatever whatever priests do when they go back behind when they're uh reading the Bible and uh probably um getting ready to have some sort of Eucharist or but I didn't see any Eucharist there anyway and it was dark right so it was dark in there with very low light and icons and so they had the I the icons of mother Mary and the and the baby Jesus there and uh and then of Jesus as well and um and then I recognized there was a a monk standing in the corner I hadn't even seen him right away he was standing completely still without any movement while this service was going on and we were the only ones there at the time and we were sitting on the little benches because there's just these little wooden mentors there and we just sat well well the service went on and then when it finished um I noticed that people were going over to the side of the cave where down near the floor there's a little divot in the stone where John's head would have laid and then a little ways up there's a little divot in the stone where if he kneeled he could help himself up again by putting his hand there and I saw people going up and kissing the icons and um and I thought and so I went up I think someone said go go over there you know go over there so I went over there and I knelt down and put my hand where he would have put his hand and I knelt down and when I stood back up I could feel my sins more directly I could feel them more profoundly than I'd felt them before and I was looking for humility I was looking to simplify my relationship with God to try to get myself out of the way to get my ego out of the way and uh and I think I you know I felt a little bit what that might be like but like you said it's such a holy place that it's uh to even have a touch of it is enough actually because I can't imagine to feel as holy as you might feel there to be able to walk out again because it's uh too much uh so I found it um that was that was an incredible experience to go there and uh and I can imagine him he must have been there because that's where Revelations was conceived so he must have been there a lot over time it's quite a place and and it's been revered ever since you know whole Monastery has been built all around it and yeah yeah and and we just don't have that kind of thing in North America you know we don't we we just don't have that long history so we can't so we have to be able to go to Europe to see it and that's why Europe is so wonderful to go to see is because then we have a relationship with this deep uh holy and long long religion long long historical I mean I went I went to Jerusalem and I walked Stations of the Cross so I walked there that I went to the church of the uh holy sepulture and I saw where Mary stood and fainted when Christ was crucified and I saw the block of marble where they laid him to oil his body and wow it was just very very powerful experiences uh that I felt ready to uh be there I really felt ready to be there my comprehension was you know as profound as it can be for someone simple as myself but yet I'm truly grateful for the opportunity to go to these places and even have a glimpse of oh the work that's gone into like the Parthenon in Athens it's this building way I mean they could have built a temple down on the ground but no they built it way up on this hill where it would have been back breaking work but of course they were doing something that was supposed to be almost inconceivable they wanted something inconceivable and so that's why that building is there yeah so um yeah what a trip absolutely yeah thanks for sharing your uh experience also of Patmos you're welcome yeah it was a very cool day I can't believe that was just a day because it it lives on in my memory for sure yeah did you visit the Hagia Sophia yes yes now is that where Jordan gave a talk that was a library in the library of Celsius the ruins and Ephesus well explain to me this other place I can't remember Sofia is this giant uh it started out as a church and it was built by Justinian I believe many many long time ago don't ask me the year and then it became uh the the Ottoman Empire took over so it had been a church for a couple hundred couple centuries and it became a mosque for a couple centuries and it became a museum for like a century and a half maybe less and then it uh then it became a mosque again two years ago right so yes we were there recently converted back into a mosque I went in there I prayed the Rosary in there that's probably not allowed I know but no but nobody stopped me I wasn't thinking about whether it was allowed or not yeah yeah I don't know that probably wasn't quite the right thing to do but I felt moved to pray yeah so I prayed yeah that's the one thing about not knowing a lot of rules that you can break quite a few of them and not know if you've done that either yeah exactly yeah that's wonderful Yeah well yeah Istanbul and being the time we spent in Istanbul was remarkable that's uh and I had no idea you know that it's at the mouth of the of the Black Sea and that that would have been the passageway for everything that would have come out of Southeast Asia if it was going to come to the Mediterranean it would have come through there no wonder that was New Rome no wonders yeah well I didn't know any of that stuff yeah so I learned a lot just by being there I didn't even crack a book yeah yeah well I can't imagine what you're learning it's funny because I actually had had um I'm doing a I had been doing a history course with my six-year-old and it's called the story of the world it's just wonderful um and we had read about Justinian and you know mosaics and stuff so we made like mosaics out of buttons and stuff and it was really fun and he did not get to come to Turkey um during that visit and hopefully someday we can take him back when he's a little bit older um but I benefited from Reading you know this textbook for this just such a great it's called the story of the world and it's told in such a wonderful way um and I was like oh I know what this is about because I I've uh I just read this to my six-year-old you know is it a book that a six-year-old can understand that uh he's pretty Advanced for I would for his age I would say in terms of like reading like I read it to him but in terms of auditory comprehension like he's pretty pretty Advanced um for his age but my like what I had planned to do had we continued homeschooling with um I would have there's a four book series like gone through one one through four so that would have been like five six seven eight and then start it over again and then and and it he would have gotten something from each year but then you know continued to get more as we went on you know like it Bears repeating and I probably would have done that through you know 12 years or whatever just because the book is so good yes he could get it but he'd get more later on who wrote that book it's Susan wisebauer yeah Susan Weisberg the story of the world the story of the world yeah it's a full volume history curriculum for kids and actually they are using it at um the school that he's at so I'm very excited oh good oh good yeah so cross-referencing at home yeah oh that's very cool and your daughter you said is two and a half yeah almost three um what's she doing what's she up to these days well the days that we don't have class she's with me and Nate which is nice because she'll get some mom mom time without her big brother and then uh then on the days that we do have morning class we have a babysitter come who's able to spend time with her and that's that's been really a blessing she loves they get along really well that's good that's good yeah it's it's a workout it's definitely um an adjustment but it's it's very good is she a talker or is she quiet she's pretty friendly I don't know if she's like like over the top my son is a talker for sure but she's she's friendly and she'll she'll chat yeah and then she'll have her Quiet Moments and play by herself too so I'd say it's just a mix she's balanced balanced person sounds like yeah oh that's nice oh I'm so glad for you thank you yeah I'm really grateful yeah so January 13th so I'll be thinking about you praying for you thank you January 13th that's that's coming up not too soon but it's coming up we're actually really hoping the baby comes I know they come when they come but we're really hoping the baby comes like two weeks early because then I'd have the two because our term starts on January 9th so it'd be ideal just to have that baby on like December 31st or something like that and just if I could pick a date um but were your other babies early or would they no they all came exactly when they were supposed to so okay so that's probably the most likely but we'll see yeah yeah well you never know yeah no you never know because it the the whole that's the thing right once you're pregnant it's not about you anymore yeah it's about the baby and you yeah right it's not that it's not about you but it's not about you first anymore yeah that's what I found oh it's not about me first anymore whatever relief that is that's what I thought when I had kids what a relief this is you know it's funny because I feel like I've struggled so much with like social I don't know if anxiety is the right word but I feel like I was a very insecure like such a late bloomer and I don't know if that came across in my like bearing but I feel like I've had to work very hard to be like a confident person like that is not natural at all but when I had my son so many of those insecurities so many of those are securities just went away I was 24. um and I would you know still felt very insecure about so many things and part of it was having Nate and him just being so affirming and such a good husband and like you know loving me well but so much of it too is like none of this matters anymore because like the life of this child is like I'm responsible for this child all these other things that I'm like worried about and concerned about like socially just don't even matter and I think that it was one of the it was a really nice relief like you said just to be like oh right okay perspective here yeah exactly yeah that's what I think and it's also being a grandparent too I have my place I have my place for sure in in the child's life and in my children's life but it's different now it's a one of support hmm right and that's pretty I can do that I can do that even if I have even if I'm very busy doing other things I can always be supportive oh you know what I did when I was in Istanbul I bought some carpets uh for my son's house he bought a new house and I bought some carpets for my son's house and that was so much fun and we just got them and they're so beautiful you know he'll and he'll have them for the next 400 years exactly that's really wonderful isn't it yeah yeah yeah and what a nice thing to be able to remember that trip by yeah that's great you know Stephen and Nicole invited us to come along and I'm so uh I'm so grateful that we managed that that we got to come and to meet all of you guys so is everybody still in the program all all 24. all 24. good that's success that's success I would say that's very good yeah yeah I think so and it's not because people haven't felt like quitting I mean it is intense um yeah but it must be but I think there's a camaraderie and a unity and an encouragement like a spirit of encouragement amongst the students as well as the professors too I'm not trying to exclude them they're also very encouraging um and I think too just the belief of like this is worth it this is worth it we're sticking around yeah and there's all kinds of people I mean you guys you're you're a married couple uh there's well you tell me about some of the people and what they're doing outside of the program yeah that was another thing that was so refreshing was just that this you know we I was afraid I was prepared to go in like feeling um you know like the only one that's you know not an academic but actually um everyone is so intelligent but coming from such different backgrounds so we have at least two visual artists one who's A A Portrait Painter another who has an MFA in his in art and um you know has worked at how I'm going to get the university wrong an important University in New York City um and is also a painter and his wife is also a painter she's not in the program but um they they live here in Savannah and so there's the the visual artists we have uh someone who just graduated with a degree and like biology and like some of the Sciences there's some there's and then we've got um you know just just all over a dancer and an actor an actress and uh coming from that that side of the the world and then um teachers there's several teachers uh yeah people have worked and just been in in the world like working then who's who's the youngest who's the youngest in the class or not who's the youngest what is the youngest age of the person that's 21 or 22 I think 22 is and who's this and what's the oldest 40 40 right yeah right so there's lots of lots of uh variation yeah of life you know of of wisdom there it's true it's been so refreshing just because I think you need that I think you need that um perspective I think you know University is somewhat of a bubble an anomaly of like real life and maybe well yeah because it is you know yeah you're in this little bubble of like these are all the people that are my age and we all we all think the same things and do the same things like well actually no like the rest of the world like you're rubbing faces and shoulders and whatever you're with other people encountering other people that are all different ages and all different backgrounds and it's been so neat to just not only have that diversity of background but then to be coming together and unified around you know the books you're reading and the experiences we're having and the common love and common trust I think so right you know when you go to university I remember when I went to University you don't see any plumbers anymore you know you don't see any electricians you don't see any garbage man anymore you don't see any of the working people you see other students and professors and this is a very select group from society and so to think that you know what's going on when you're there right yeah it's a pretty narrow it's a pretty narrow view of society until you get out and really take on the roles that life offers you know as soon as you become a mom I mean what did you find do you remember when you first had your first son when it was like to to have a baby and because I remember I can remember meeting people on the street and having we were in Quebec we were in Montreal and there's Lumberjacks there's sometimes you meet Lumberjacks French lumberjacks while we were living in a working-class neighborhood Jordan was a graduate student and so we didn't have any money we were just living in an apartment in kind of a working-class part of town and uh I don't think anybody even noticed that I was pregnant I got I had a baby in January so I was wearing pretty bulky clothes right but still anyway it wasn't like I was in a place I didn't know anybody really a couple of neighbors but when I had a baby all of a sudden these Lumberjacks even even The Lumberjacks were saying hello and going you know that's adorable turning around in the cafe at seven in the morning and going really something to all of a sudden realize that oh oh now I'm in a club with all other parents that I never even knew existed before yeah you know what I mean yeah yeah we did yeah go ahead no go ahead I was just gonna say I think um we definitely because we so we got married in July and we had our first son in um the next June so it was 11 months this is very quick very quick turnaround um and we had I think we Nate and I talked about this so much of just we didn't really find Our Place um socially with like because we were a young couple and so then we're like trying to find other young couples but it was really hard to find other young couples that our age that were pregnant and so we ended up hanging out with people that were our parents age and like they became our closest friends um and in that and that was like our first year of marriage uh and that was just such an interest so we definitely had to like wrestle with that Dynamic of like where where do we fit in like where this is and then like having a kid it was like oh yeah this changes everything like this is you are in this like I don't know I guess you could call it a club for parents like you said I think that's true but I think it also uh what we found was a lot of our peers in age didn't know what to do with us because they were like well you have a kid like what is it what are you different you know and it was it was hard it was hard to like connect um you know to a lot of the people that hadn't had hadn't had kids that were doing the two career kind of thing um whether they were married or not you know yeah well we we had kids I was 31. I wasn't I wasn't young and yet still I was well I was hanging around with Jordan's friends who were all getting phds none of these people had any kids and so they were all about the same age as me and none of them had kids I was the only one who had kids yeah and I but I had older sisters and they had their kids by the time they were 30. so I really felt like you know come on now we've put it off as long as we can put it off now this is this is the time and so got it going but uh um 24 just think six more years I could add another baby if I would have if I would have started earlier I would have loved that that'd been great I love my kids I love being a mother I love being pregnant actually I I had a very I would say you know I felt pretty healthy I was pretty healthy and and so I felt good through the time I was pregnant and I just and I know it's exhausting I know that yeah it's it's like I'm not you know trying to make it and do something it's not sure no it's it's hard it's hard but good Lord you know um the best things in life are very difficult yeah because they give you amazing rewards because they're so hard right it's so much responsibility with that I don't know there's some sort of uh some sort of response that's large because it's so hard it's so much you give of yourself so much that the what comes back is you know tenfold it's just yeah I loved I loved my kids I love that I'm home for just a little while now and I get to see those little kids I'm gonna go to Halloween over there Elliot's gonna be a fire chief what are your kids going to be for Halloween I don't know Solomon was just I mean Evie doesn't really know um she'll just dress up in a princess dress I'm sure I think we're gonna sit on our porch there's another actually the other student who has kids and Savannah I think we're gonna make cookies and then um sit on the porch and hand them out rather than go up and down the street because she's got two little ones a three-year-old in us and then you get to see the other kids so we'll dress up but then we'll be we'll also get to hand out cookies I'd much rather give my kids like homemade cookies than like tons of candy but anyway um yeah I don't know Solomon was telling me he's like well I could be this or I could be that or I know I could dress up like a cookie you know he's just got all these that's Silly's idea he's just excited about it yeah when I grew up when I was growing up I lived in Northern Alberta where it was the first day of winter was really Halloween so you had to dress up in something that you could wear your winter clothes underneath always sizes too big of your costume or whatever yeah cookie would have been good because you could put your you know snow suit underneath yeah yeah um I wanted to say I think it's I think you're right um the only advice that I've oh I shouldn't say the only advice one of the advice or things that has stuck out to me is every person that's talk to me about having kids they've never said nobody has ever regretted having more children but I have heard people have like regret having fewer like yeah and I think that's a good point everything you just said I think is just a like yes so like I think that's that's what I've heard from other people as well just like I've never regretted having that extra child or whatever the more um because they are such a gift and yeah and there's time there's time to be uh to go out into the world and do things there's time there's time for all of that yeah but uh there's only a certain amount of time you can have children so you know it's worth it it's worth it it's worth it yeah well thank you very much for speaking with me and uh get plenty of rest thank you I'll do my best get plenty of rest yeah and uh good luck with all of that three kids wow that's so wonderful I'm sure your son will be lots of help I think 66. he'll be lots of help thank you so much give my best to Nate too at first I was thinking who's this guy oh I'm supposed to be uh interviewing Kate and who's this guy I didn't even recognize him yeah he shamed all his facial hair off right when we got to Savannah he's like I think it's time to be done and it is different it took me quite it's like taken me a time to adjust yeah thank you so much it's been wonderful talking and reconnecting and it's yeah it's very nice to see you to hear you and hear what you have to say all the best thanks [Music]

Channel: Tammy Peterson

Views: 8,081

Keywords: Tammy Peterson Podcast, Tammy Peterson, Tammy, Peterson, jordan peterson, the peterson podcast, empowered women, podcasts for empowerement, bible, mother, mom, education, sacrifice, courage, agreeable, story, life, meaning, parenting, parent, role, father, psychology, religion, psychologist, mythology, philosophyinsights, family, tammy peterson, tammy, peterson, kate, spanos, book of john, TMP podcast, reasons to have kids, should i have kids, advice for new moms, how to raise kids for busy women

Id: QOgrCG14r5Q

Length: 68min 34sec (4114 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 23 2023