Authentic Listening, Marriage, and Motherhood | Sage Robbins EP 33

what are some of the key like principles that you believe are important for a thriving marriage I'm responsible for my experience he's not here to make me feel better he's not here to make my problems go away he's here to share life with a lot of our beliefs were laid down before we even were conscious of what we were believing and if we can listen and be open to what other some other person is saying we might be able to update a refute something that we have had belief in our whole lives I think when you have love and you have God in the center of your existence that's a safe harbor it's a it's a safe harbor nobody wants to hear and know what they can or can't do and so I really found what's most sincere is to provide choices how has motherhood impacted your spiritual life I think the recognition before she was born I had the illusion that being a mother that you're the center of their life I recognize I'm a puzzle piece of her life hi Sage hi once again good to see you good to see you as well okay let's talk about God okay beautiful okay in in all sorts of ways but let's talk about uh your relationship with God yes um and you can tell like how how is your faith influenced your daily life and your decision making how does that work all my word uh well it influences every decision at this stage of my life and how does that go about how would how does that happen well you know I didn't always recognize this uh but from my own experience we all have two voices and if it isn't a voice there's you know the voice of of Mind Of The egoic Voice which is I can't do this I'm not enough you're going to fail uh you know whatever internal or external judgment usually from that from that lens uh and then the voice of willingness the voice of receptivity uh for myself uh I feel I don't I don't hear uh you know it's not auditory but I I feel a an Impulse an Impulse uh that I've identified at this stage as like a sensation um an instinct I suppose you could call it and that is what I listened to most and that is why I'm sitting in front of you today okay through that impulse through that instinct that it feels I feel like a I put a yes to it like yes or I'll feel what I call to be my brakes oh okay and uh that is the truest voice uh the truest path uh I never recognized up until this stage of my life that I really believed it uh God we all have access to that reality we all have we all meet in this Human Experience and and I I really believe that the true equality is our experience of Grace or access to wisdom and with our free will uh it's up to each of us to be able to tune into that or to penetrate the I suppose the Illusions and divisions of narrative of mind at time at times uh and rise above that noise and to recognize that for myself anyways that life is happening for me uh even if it's possibly a painful circumstance even if it were a challenging circumstance uh and so that is very much uh I pray we were speaking earlier about you know the of different rituals and the support of rituals and traditions and and then uh you know just prayer is I just it's a noticing for myself at this stage it's a noticing and it can be as simple as wow noticing a flower feeling the breeze on my face uh you know our little one holding you know Mom's hand the the sweetness of that uh the beauty in another human being uh the beauty of your faith of Your Love of life so it's your love of God um I don't know what that means to you personally but I feel that uh in you through you um so I trust that that's why this conversation has been LED and I think it's really beautiful you know we all come together in this human experience with different references different conditioning different life experience different education different religions or not you know whatever Gothic or atheist I think if we're at least for myself I was gonna say If we're honest if I'm honest in moments in time I've probably been all perspectives uh and uh at this stage it's um very much just something that is a part of my every waking life I feel that way too well I I want that to be the case yes I desire that to be the case yeah yes and how does it I'm curious how you feel your faith that this stage of your life how how does how do you connect or or um if that's appropriate if I ask you oh sure so when I was young I went to uh a Presbyterian Church with my sisters and my mother and I studied yoga started studying yoga when I was 13. and uh I didn't go to church anymore but went back to the church when I was 25 or so but I was in a different town and I was on my own and I didn't put myself really out there to be a part of the congregation so I still felt separate and I stopped going you know so I wasn't allowing myself to really share my own experience with other people in order to help it grow I was still kind of skeptical and uh just going to services but then wondering whether what was happening there was something that I could benefit from I think was all I was really concerned about I didn't know I didn't know it was a I didn't understand it's funny you know because I'd done yoga I'd practiced every day for years yet it took me a while to realize that that practice I could do in church too I could do with the Bible I could just practice prayer and that the practice of that had would have consequences when I'm in discomfort for whatever reason discomfort yeah yeah you know so I've gone to Al-Anon I I during during the lockdown when my husband was away and he was away for nearly two years because he was sick for so long uh and I really found a lot of comfort going to meetings with with people and sharing them them sharing what what what made them uncomfortable and how they would find a better way through the program and what the prayers that are offered within that program because they give you things to say like this too shall pass or let go and let God and sometimes just one of those little things I found could be really helpful to me so at night maybe I'd wake up with these racing thoughts about something or other well and and then I would just say that I will be done over and over and over and over until I fell asleep again and then I got so that I wouldn't allow those thoughts to come I would replace them with prayer amen yeah and so and it worked it worked and then I stopped having like the thoughts just don't come as often anymore I don't have to be consciously praying all the time to keep them at Bay it's it's as if I've retrained my brain to be in one more of acceptance instead of always questioning yes yeah and being at odds you know so it's it's not it's not like that anymore and I think you know if you have a whole life of this you wonder yeah what it's like to be somebody who's brain is always going but it can be that way and absolutely you know not and when I'm saying my brain is going uh let's see you know someone contacted me and I feel a little awkward and I have to decide what I'm going to say back and then I've got all these ideas of what I could say and stuff but now I can just say well I don't know what to do about that I'll just leave that I'll just leave that and when I should answer will become obvious and and that's what will happen but I do hear I do hear a voice I do hear your voice yeah but it it's only in the last couple of years that I've heard a voice and at first I didn't know what it was but I and I know do know there's two voices yes yeah I know there's the voice that tells me I'm not good enough absolutely or no I shouldn't do this or that but then I have this other voice that says and it's a little still it's a still quiet voice that says you know if you say what you need then you can do what you have to do but and if I listen so for instance last week we were going to go give a talk and I had a 45-minute drive to the theater so I was going to prepare on the way to the theater but Dr Peterson was tired and had had a sleep and he'd slept too long and he'd missed a call so on the way to the talk he wanted to have a call and thinking of me he asked me if I want to go in the other vehicle which was with two of our friends and that changed my plan right it changed my plan and I thought hmm I was going to prepare and now I can't prepare but he wants to be alone so I said yes that he could be by himself and then I heard this little voice and it said sit in the front seat they can sit in the back seat they can talk but you you have to prepare you know but I usually sit in the back seat so I sat in the back seat I didn't listen I didn't listen and and then they started talking because they were excited to be going and they were talking and I thought well I'll just put this aside I'll speak about something that I already know about and I don't really have to prepare so I thought I'd dealt with that okay and then we got to the theater but there had been so much traffic we were late so then I only had time to put my lipstick on and I was out there and getting ready to go on stage and I hadn't even got the theme of what I was going to talk about yet because I don't use any notes but I usually know that you're the gist of it you know yes yes and so then George says to me are you ready I said no well then I made him nervous right so then he said well I could give you some advice and I was like I don't want any advice I only have five minutes and I want to get ready and so then I've heard his feelings right and so it was this one thing and of course the evening went fine but I thought you know if I just sat in the front seat if I just listened to that little small voice yeah you told me what to do yes come on Tammy and honestly so incredibly relatable it's I I you know that's where we all meet we all have this path and find our way home in different ways and uh as I mentioned earlier I grew up as well going to AAA my father's in AAA he's been in over 50 years and so I've gone to more AAA meetings than church and it's such an extraordinary program it is uh you know there's the the basis points of of a real path of spirituality self-responsibility and you know turning your life over to a higher power uh and like you said there's beautiful Notions or threads of and prayers the Serenity Prayer remember saying that prayer God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change my grandmother taught me that prayer when I was a child I didn't know where she got it from and then I went to an Al-Anon meeting and I was and I said it for years with no meaning right it hasn't been probably until then maybe the last five ten years of my life that I actually recognize or experience more ref more accurately uh what that prayer means and the surrender of between you know that perspective and um I I think it's it's there's so many tools or paths or communities uh and then internal practices uh that help for us to um for myself anyways live the most sincere life uh at this stage of my life and sincere doesn't mean right or wrong sincere just means what feels most true uh inside myself at this stage and like you said you you know you the little voice spoke to you and you didn't listen to it and then you had that self-correction I have that all the time sometimes I'll feel something and I don't know that I meant to act I don't you know and I'll ignore it same thing yeah and then you would and then that experience leads you to a reference point and and sometimes it's like wow that was Less Pleasant I'll tune in so it's incredibly relatable I I relate more than I can convey Tammy yeah yeah yeah and and that that's a real joy for me to recognize when I've been given a challenge for the day and I've always and I'm always I've always given a challenge you know I think that I don't know why that it's because we are insufficient in our understanding we we have to also always be given a challenge to have a little be a little bit closer to God right a little more enlightened a little a little less uh high and mighty right so a little less I and mighty so just give give you a little bit of of a challenge and then you think oh yeah we still have lots to learn oh right oh yeah oh at the end of every day oh yeah yeah I have lots to learn I I've never felt more like a student I've especially being here into the stage I've I've never felt more like you know I know so little and and and yet humbled by um humble by that reality and as well you know there's areas in life where I feel gosh blue sky and then I'll be living my life and something hits my stuff and yes completely and utterly humbled and uh you know and on my knees I mean literally sometimes just it's I I'm very humbled by that continued um Evolution that continued that composts us that renews us that restores us that strips us from you know strips us what's maybe not our fullest uh truth or from my own experience I can look at myself I can look at a picture of myself five years ago or a year ago and I'll see her and I have such compassion for her because I know what I was or I remember what I was believing in thinking or I might look at what I was dressing and think gosh what was I thinking or what I had chosen at that time I think that's the gift of this Human Experience is we do miss I'm not where I am today because I've done everything perfectly I've I've missed and continued to miss as a human being on this path but um I think the gift is when we do is to learn and and learn from that and tune and choose differently just like our little one right now she's you know potty training and today she you know she missed and and it's like it's just it's it's another opportunity you know she didn't like the sensation of it she didn't like the feeling of it you know wanted to you know change your little shorts as quick as possible then and yet we all that's me in a different context in a different experience in a different uh area life is always offering when we missed um to realign and to reconnect and I think that really powerful and beautiful I like the uh the the example of potty training because when a child is Young and at two years old and needs to be subject to their body yes right and so it's their first it's their first uh uh challenge it's their first challenge that's going to bring them either to accept that they do cannot control everything right they cannot control everything or they're just going to be always having trouble if they're going to be always peeing their pants because they're not they're just not going to go to the bathroom when they need to I don't have to you know and I you can see that I know my daughter was very easy to train my son was a little harder to train because he wanted he wanted control if he was out playing baseball or something he didn't want to stop yeah you know he didn't want to stop and uh he did that so often that eventually I uh it wasn't me I'm not sure who did this but we we uh started singing the the a song for the P dance because he would dance you know he would be dancing because we knew he needed to go but he didn't want to go and I mean you have to go that's just the way life is you know you have to give up control and it's that first giving Network control we end up trying to get that control back we would know as we grow up again and go further and get more challenges but that it really is the first indication of you you know this is you have to be humble yes yes and it isn't always everything that from my own experience that what I want yeah right and I think that that's really powerful and and when it is something that you know I'm enforcing what I want it's usually really clunky yeah and I'll feel resistance and it just doesn't feel as true uh in my inner in my inner being and so that's like the alarm clock that's like hey I'm off you know choose differently is the internal resistance that I feel what do they say in a a they say all my best plans got me here oh so I'm done with that right I'm done I'm done with having my plants yes my plans have never got me where I needed to go they've never got me to a place that was as uh fulfilling as the places that I now go with God's guidance yeah and and uh it's definitely worth trying it out but it took it took uh a lot of practice Yeah to get to this place practice and for myself pain yeah a lot of pain and still does at times uh and that just feels like a you know if I'm believing a belief or a thought or a limitation of something and and I'm that narrative is running it's it's can be brutal it can be really pains and to inquire uh to question to perceive and to you know broaden the lens or broaden the uh perceptual scope of a circumstance and a question often I'll ask myself what am I missing what are you missing and I love like where that takes fear what Consciousness shows because it's it's usually so much more benevolent than the story of mind it's so much Kinder and and also invokes uh compassion because a lot of times if I'm listening to if we're listening to The Narrative of mind uh we can miss what the others how they're impacted I talk about listening sometimes when I'm on stage I talk about listening and what it means to listen and I talk about that there's the speaker and listener so it's a communication listening and if you have a really good listener then as a speaker you can go deeply into what you're trying to say because you have someone who's really paying attention but if the listener is trying to is thinking about oh I don't agree with that or let's see I I bet I can think up something that you know is we'll bring this to a place where I you're not listening because you're thinking about other things that's actually not listening and the the thing that I thought was interesting of all the stuff I've read was a lot of our beliefs were laid down before we even were conscious of what we were believing and if we can listen and be open to what other some other person is saying we might be able to update a refute something that we have had belief in our whole lives but realized that well that actually isn't helpful yes yes but you gotta listen in order to find that out you got to be open to the fact that you have something to learn yeah and that if you're really lucky you'll hear something right true and sometimes it is uh it's from ourselves and sometimes it's from another in the most unexpected package and version of uh that's just this beautiful connected experience and uh where we're not all so different no matter where we come from we all meet in this human journey in Earth School we all have this inner world to understand this inner world to transcend uh and uh beliefs or or attachments that are limiting and can be incredibly painful when we believe them what do you mean by attachments can you explain attachments uh well an attachment if I if I believe the thought that I can't I can't I can't meet with Tammy Peterson I'm attached to that thought I mean what will I say you know she's an intellectual I'm not but I'll do it you know mine can so I I can't do that right right how can I do that that's it's I'm attached to that belief if I feel that our daughter should be I don't know I'm making it up right now but yeah she has to play uh hockey and because I'm Canadian and so she has to play I'm attached to that and I might miss uh actually what she's most pulled to or connected to and or if I believe that my husband is he's working too hard and he shouldn't go on this you know this trip and it's too much for you I'm attached to that belief but yeah that attachment of that it locks from my own experience anyways it locks me to not perceive or connect to a greater truth in a missing reality I'm missing reality so I look for that inside that you know those sticky attachments that blind us to the truth of a greater truth anyway so reality and what's happening here here now yeah and I find that those attachments too if I can disentangle myself from those then I have a clearer path to listening to my higher power right yeah I have a much clearer path but as long as I'm attaching to other things it uh it muffles it muffles the the sound and it confuses what I'm seeing you know if I if something happens that makes me uncomfortable maybe a conversation that I'm having with someone and we come to a place where it brings up emotion in me or something yeah you know and then I want to say something but I won't now I'll just pause right I'll pause I'll pause until my emotions are all calm again and then uh in fact sometimes I'll pause long enough that I've forgotten what it was I had planned to say but that bastard but then the thing will be said I'll say it and realize I've said it without planning to say no that's the right time yes and then it doesn't cause any waves at all true and I think so that's very interesting and of course I'm you know I still feel like I'm pretty new at this so of doing of living this way and so it's a practice it's a practice and I'm learning to see what the outcome is I don't know what the outcome is going to be and all I'm doing is trying to make sure that my interactions aren't harmful yeah and uh and that's uh well that takes quite a bit of of the time that I have is making sure that all the interactions that I'm having are going I was talking to someone and the other day I hadn't seen her in a long time a friend who came and she was telling me stories of When We Were Young you know and I was listening and then I was thinking oh she she's telling me stories about when I when we were young so that I could remember and I was aware enough to say oh so then I started telling her stories of of When We Were Young of things I remembered and I remembered when I used to go over to her house and her older brother would play the accordion on Friday nights just in the kitchen he'd play in the accordion and I'd come in the house and it was all festive and they lived across from the Catholic uh high school and there would always be dances or weddings or stuff going on right across the street but we'd have our own thing going on in the house and my friend didn't didn't remember that and and I gave her that and I was so grateful to give her that back yeah you know and we think we have to do so much for each other but really what we have to do is just be aware be aware and do the next right thing I love that do the next trade thing that's gorgeous do you know that one I I haven't heard of that and yet uh it's it's beautiful and I I believe we do that naturally and intrinsically when we are in our nature yeah I I don't have that mastered to be so conscious every moment that what I'm gonna say or how I say it is in perfect harmony in every moment and yet at this stage of my life if I just a couple weeks ago my husband and I he had said something to me and he gave me advice it was actually really practical and effective and uh he was actually very dialed in in the state I was in and in the lens that I was seeing it you know I didn't want to hear it and I completely and utterly told him so and I walked out of the kitchen and as by the time I got up upstairs I took a breath and I thought okay I actually smiled at myself because I saw how ridiculous I behaved so uh my practice is if I am out of coherence or I'm just connected or I'm charged um I I walk back down and I I said tone I'm like I'm so sorry I wasn't my best self in that moment and he he laughed I laughed and uh I think it's just that's just beautiful that's that's this beautiful Human Experience it's the allowance of the human and I think sometimes whether it be politicians or religious leaders or people on social media we expect this false perception of who or how they or we are supposed to be and we're human we're all figuring this out and I it's it's kind It's Kind when we can you know accept and allow the humanness and recognize that because it's happening with inside of ourselves so what your art of uh you know tuning yourself before you speak that's it's very unique in such a beautiful practice and so profound because it only uh invokes that Harmony and connectedness and sincerity um and this practice isn't about being for those of you who are listening certainly from my own perception it's not about being perfect it's just catching ourselves you know when I fall asleep I know what falling asleep feels like it it's painful it feels resistance it feels out of alignment internally and so if I feel that I I Look to tidy that up first inside myself and then with whoever I'm in front of yeah yeah absolutely we were on and we had some friends on tour different friends different people travel with us which is so helpful because we've been away for so long and it's nice to have people come and they're grateful and they're grateful and they bring a newness back into the situation and that's always good so um we were going to get on a plane and my two friends were coming with me and they were all excited but one of them had just arrived and she'd gone through many time zones to come and join us and she had forgot her phone in the cab and her sweater at the hotel you know I said well today is day three that's the data forget everything because you're jet-lagged and uh and then I realized that my passport was in my backpack and it was already on the plane and and I and we were going to be at a regular airport and so I needed my passport and this made my other friend who was there who's also in my little Al-Anon group she said it made her nervous it made her nervous to see these things that were not quite right you know and so she said to me you know your passport would fit in that little purse of yours that you're carrying and I said something kind of harsh to her like you know uh that's not where it goes It goes in my backpack you know yeah and then that night I was reading a just reading a reading and it was talking about harm and I thought you know I've never been really abused there hasn't been a lot of harm in my life I wouldn't say but I wasn't thinking about harm in all of the different ways that you might be harmed you know and I realized oh I harmed this woman I was harsh in my uh in my response to her so I thought oh well I'll just leave that there as I do I'll just leave that there and it'll it'll happen it I'll be able to say what I need to say to say I'm sorry uh and so then we were walking that evening and we were walking and then all of a sudden she was just a little bit ahead of me and everybody was kind of engaged and I just put my arm around her and I said sorry about this afternoon I was harsh with you and I didn't need to be and she said well I didn't need to say what I said it wasn't any of my business and we laughed away we just laughed away oh so nice you know it is so fresh so yeah it's really that's such a lovely um it's just so beautiful to catch ourselves and I think if we're human we've innocently unconsciously we've harmed and we've been harmed both just and and that's not a locked perspective it's it's just when we fall asleep if we're unconscious yes that's right you know that it's just it's innocent it's kind of a disagreeable person so I'm I'm very blunt oh thank you I can be blunt I can be blunt and sometimes oh yeah yeah and so so sometimes that comes off as pretty harsh and so yeah so I'm trying to train myself to be kinder more blind and uh and it's taking some work but it's worthwhile it's definitely worthwhile I think my relationships are much better Jordan he he comments that that things uh although he says you know it was wonderfully wonderful to be married with me the whole time that things are really good now and I think isn't that nice to meet things better yeah where's your you're a beautiful husband Dr Peterson and and uh Tony I mean there's such they're beautiful minds they're beautiful um beautiful spirits and in both of their lives are so committed to uh being an example and as well sharing their experience and their reference point to help instill uh or reflect anyways the uh gift of this human experience and to have a vision and a and a purpose and uh they actually have so many uh junctures of uh alignment it's really quite remarkable they come at it differently it expresses it it animates differently but they're both beautifully such uh emotional men you know Tony stature so does Dr Peterson and and yet uh and and both such Brilliant Minds and both such Tender Hearts I've seen I mean Tony can cry sometimes he'll be crying and I'm I'm I I'm not crying myself and I'm still fascinated at what moves him uh differently than myself and I certainly know uh Dr Peterson as well uh is is is moved to tears and I just think that that's really so extraordinary and so beautiful we come in these packages and yet we all have access to masculine and feminine with inside of ourselves and uh both of our husbands really are come in such unique packages and uh and you know I've we've lived on the road you've lived on the road in such a unique way and and doing lectures or seminars uh it's it's beautiful it's it's beautiful to for myself it's never gotten old even for those who are listening here right now or those that come to a lecture or seminar their hunger you know they're they're hunger to want to understand themselves to want to be more share more give more explore uh to let go of what's no longer needed I you know when people ask what that experience has been like it's it's that's something I never it has never gotten old for me and I've just fallen in love with these beautiful souls these beautiful humans that um you know want more out of their lives uh because we're here we're living it's a miracle to be alive it's a miracle that we're even we have this technology just all of it I mean it's a miracle that our bodies are being breathed we need nothing for that it's a miracle that life exists in US never mind around us and uh I I just truly truly it's been yeah and and you know and that's a practice too and that's a practice as well gratitude yes it is and it becomes and when I'm not if I'm suffering it's usually because I'm lacking gratitude for something or someone in my life or there's a false expectation that life should be different or somebody should be behaving or doing something different for me then I'm crazy and then I'm disconnected from that gratitude so for those of you that are listening this you know we speak about a practice but it's it's it's really here now we have the opportunity to uh reconnect every moment to a greater truth I remember when I went to India the first time in I had to filter the lens of Enlightenment and it was like reaching an Enlightenment it felt like something out here that I was going to attain or gain or it would be this solidified place that I don't know you would experience and then all your problems would go away and it was so naive and so innocent and yet ignorant at that stage uh and from this perspective where the lens of where I am today I just recognize it's this moment life gives us an opportunity to wake up to a Kinder and mature reality in this moment to life offers us an opportunity to notice what possibly we missed the moment before and to appreciate um and as you so beautifully have offered to extend kindness to extend love to pause and catch yourself I love what you shared Tammy uh before you speak I don't do that every time I do that at times but I don't do that every time every time but it's a practice it is a practice and you're sharing that you can be Curt I can be Curt I can be completely direct you know I I you'd met uh Mary earlier who's a beloved friend and when I first met her at the beginning she cried a lot and I thought she was just emotional it didn't occur to me that I might be contributing to that oh dear true it's the truth and that caused a shift inside of me I'm still I mean gosh it's an eternal shift uh when I say nutritional shift it's something I'm aware of whether it be my mom you know sometimes I'll hang up the phone from my mom and uh maybe I'm doing something and I'll feel rushed and I'll call her back and I'll I'll just say Mom I love you so much if I was just short when I hung up I'm sorry I was just you know I've got to get out of call but I just want you to know I I at this it's such a gift to be able to catch myself at this to catch upsells at this stage yes and then to offer something more authentic or to offer something more sincere uh as I shared the experience with Tony the other day and you know he he was laughing and I was laughing and ah he was we tease so it's beautiful I'm sure you experienced this as well we tease each other about we you know after you've been I don't know how many years I think you've been together since you were in elementary school yeah but we've been married about I don't know 34 years or something wow that's remarkable yeah so after all those years you kind of you understand yourself more you understand your other and you get over yourself hopefully you know all the stuff at the beginning of I I just think of how we relate to each other I feel like we're pretty much stripped of everything but love and gratitude you know and and if something comes up that my stuff gets hit or if he does we tidy it up we tidied up in real time because it hurts to be disconnected yeah when we first married I think it used to take us three days sometimes to oh to tie something up you know yes yes and then it wouldn't happen as as often but when it happened it would be just as intense the arguments that we would have would be just and it was like wow how do we how can that happen that it can be that intense but it would reconcile over the years it would just be a faster and faster reconciliation because I I guess we learn to listen to one another and to negotiate and so then you can find a better place sooner I I've been thinking about negotiation recently about uh so being in a in a disagreement and then negotiating with someone finding common ground you know when you found common ground because the spirit of play emerges and if you haven't negotiated completely then you're still feeling uh there's still a disconnect you know so then so then it's still kind of awkward and it's not but when but it's a dance once you've negotiated completely you're in a new place and it's a dance and that's so exciting yeah so Jordan and I when we have a date we dance really yeah we dance he went to uh Nashville last year we were in a little country bar and there was a woman there who was working there and she was a dance teacher she asked Jordan if he wanted to dance lesson I guess it looked like he needed a dance lesson but he said yes he said yes and so he had a little dance lesson and it only took her a few minutes because she knew what she was doing to tell him how to lead and it and it made sense to him you know and what's beautiful is that now when we dance my dad could dance and he used to dance with me you know at weddings and things so I love to dance with my father because he knew how to dance but now that Jordan knows how to dance I can use the moves that my dad taught me and and I saw it then I can I can have the spirit of my father dancing with me again well that's extraordinary isn't that you know and so the things that you learn after being together for a long time because I always wanted to dance so we just it was it was I mean we danced but we just didn't know how you know and Jordan didn't know how and yeah that's okay right right I need you to take a dance lesson well I'll get Jordan to get teach you this what he knows and then you don't need any okay sounds beautiful next time we we see each other okay that's a good idea I want to ask you a question about marriage yes what are some of the key like principles or values that you believe are important for a thriving marriage well you mentioned uh one of them I you know you you gave the metaphor of dance and uh for Tony and I at this stage I really feel that there's that art and um there's just an understanding and appreciation if I was to say number one uh it's dropping expectations and uh increasing appreciation when we first got together you know you have this idyllic view of what marriage or what husband or wife whatever you know that your partner is what they're supposed to give to you and that's clunky and that's painful I'll speak for myself that was awkward I wanted him to understand me I wanted him to be present for me I want I you know I want I it was about it's about me and so uh as life has its way with us and has humbled me and and us both I feel like a lot of that has been Stripped Away and and just simply an appreciation in an understanding of our differences and and you use the word negotiation I I'd love afterwards to hear what that means to you uh but I I would look from uh from my own reference point of just responsible I'm I'm responsible for my experience he's not here to make me feel better uh he's not here to make my problems go away he's here to share life with and so I think it's it's right perception uh and then appreciation of of the gift of this beautiful human that God gave you to love and that they are going to have their human ex you know uh conditioned responses at times or challenges and I think one of the beautiful junctures of coming together is you get to love magnifies love you know and and it's something uh the uh belief or the um the awareness I suppose more accurately that I'm here to give love I'm here to share the love that is my nature rather than hey love me pay attention to me and I found different kind of ways if I do want I'll say hanj you know what I could really I could really use 10 minutes or I could really I'd love to I just ask when before it would come out if I was frustrated or come out if I was angry and he didn't hear me and then I would think what a knucklehead like what to do why aren't you hearing me why don't you understand me and that just gets so freaking clunky and uh so the art of making a request you know honey this would be meaningful to me uh this would be meaningful to me I have found to be incredibly uh powerful I am responsible I am responsible for my experience and if I am not being my best self I know it has nothing to do with him it's it's me that's my freedom uh and then being able to bring that to the table uh and then just the beauty that I never recognized I think like this whole you know notion or the the idea of romance love is so different than what is portrayed in in a lot of films or Disney uh it's more beautiful it's more accurate uh because we're really mirroring you know each other and what I've recognized over all these we've been together 20 coming maybe married for 22 years and together 24 years and at this stage like I see myself I've claimed a lot of different attributes of Tony he's claimed a lot of different attributes of myself and I think that's why we come together you know we come together for greater level of wholeness and what's inside of ourselves we're mirroring each other and uh I've also come to recognize that everything I've believed any judgment I put on him or frustration I had on him uh it was me that was me and then just prayerfulness you know at this as well this stage you know every meal we sit down together we hold hands we praise a family and that's usually just a prayer of gratitude you know thank you for this day for this moment thank you for this life for our family whatever is organic whatever is natural and I feel like that lens no matter what's happening in the external world no matter what challenges we're having that coming together uh it it creates the the awareness throughout the uh meal or the evening of sharing I just so appreciate that we didn't do that in the beginning we both had our faith and prayed separately but I I I think it's so powerful as a family our little our little one she prays we hold hands like this and you know sometimes I'll make sweetheart you know what do you want to say thank you for it Halo our dog or you know her little friend uh Jim up the street or whatever that is and I I you know through all of that we've navigated because you can have challenges individually and then challenges externally I think when you have love and you have God in the center of your existence uh that's a safe harbor it's a it's a safe harbor of sharing and uh through everything that we have this whole path and everything that we've experienced good bad and indifferent no matter how beautiful no matter how messy no matter how brutal no matter from Agony to ecstasy and everything in between uh it just keeps getting Tighter and simpler simpler I I I that's probably not the accurate word but oh I think that's a good one because I do think it's simpler because we're not uh we're not trying to manipulate it so it simplifies it and I was trying and I didn't even see that I was trying to manipulate no me neither woman I I'll look at like I said I'll look at photos of myself or photos of us and it's awkward almost sometimes to myself I have compassion for her because you know I and I didn't even if you would have asked me then or said that I wasn't manipulating I would have been defensive you know because I was you know love the action to the hook to get something rather than just give something and at this stage I only want that man's happiness like I only want my daughter's happiness anybody I love I just and uh if I'm a part of it beautiful if I'm not that's okay too I get to witness and appreciate and and um I think that's also a difference of maturity at this stage of uh you know witness just being able to uh not have to be involved in everything just appreciate I'm curious what about yourself and Jordan uh how does what do you notice at this stage different than say 34 years ago or over that trajectory of life I'm definitely not trying to make things go my way like I was I was very good at that you know I had I had very strong self-wealth yes me too my goodness we used to call me Knox yeah my dad always told me when I was you know a child he would say that I talk too much and I didn't know what he meant by that but I was I was trying to get my way yeah you know I think I was trying to get my way but it's funny you know when your father says something you listen right because when you're a child if your father says something you listen and then uh and then you try to figure out what that means so I think you know now I'm in my 60s and I'm still thinking about what my father taught me which is that's a long time ago but my marriage and we can when Jordan and I were first married when we were first going to be married he said you know if we're going to do this we have to tell the truth and no one had ever said that to me before I went away for about a year because I was living in a different city and thought about it thought about if I was living my life in truth or not you know everything I did I looked at to see what is this that I'm doing is that a good thing and you know I didn't even quite even know yet what it was that I should question but it took me it took me you know years and years to come to the to come to understanding that not only did I have to not lie but I had to actually be paying attention to my motivations and to make sure that they were also honorable you know and it took me a long time to bring myself back to myself I was taking care of my external world making sure that my interactions in the external world I was trying to listen to other people and I think the practice of listening to other people started me to listen to myself but it took quite a while for me to start to hear what it was that was going on whether it was some voices that were not always beneficial that some some of my voices were too you know to make me be quiet or to not do something for myself that I wanted to do maybe I should be doing things for other people yes not for myself but to become aware of that oh man I was so grateful to become aware of that to see that that's what I do that I will I will be happy to give up everything about myself so that somebody else that I love will be okay and and that's not that's not helpful it's not helpful because I have what what do they say you know the little church song that you sing to your little kids This Little Light of Mine I'm gonna let it shine and then I wasn't letting I wasn't always letting my light light shine and I'm still I still don't I'm sure but uh I've learned through the marriage that if I let what I need out and share that with myself and with the world that makes my marriage better so then he knows me better doesn't he or yeah tell me you're uh I'm just so appreciating this conversation and so appreciate your courage and your self-reflection and willingness to see yourself and to tune yourself it's so refreshing and and and beautiful and I just have uh the utmost um admiration or respect for you well thank you but I mean in order to just have this conversation it's the conversation is that the it's the speaking and the listening sir let's talk about motherhood the info I have three grandchildren now so I'm getting to experience that so that's pretty yeah and there are six and three and one that I have three three kids it's funny you know because when you're a mom you have one child at a time when you're a grandmother you can have many children at a time isn't that something that's true that's something I've never even really thought of that before but it's true so how has how has motherhood impacted your spiritual life oh um gosh this little lady has rearranged me in the most beautiful ways decimated me um like I said just really put me back uh not back just recognized that um I know so little and that there's so every moment has just been such an opportunity to perceive and I just feel the learning and uh the awareness of uh the own innate intelligence that they're walking in with um and holding the space for that I think the recognition before she was born I had the illusion that being a mother that you're the center of their life and I recognize I'm a puzzle piece of her life and that's freeing and beautiful uh also the gift of of you know recognizing she's a sovereign being and holding the space and reflecting her autonomy and giving her choice and uh you know not exercising my will believing that I know better because she schools me in that every day oh man that must be something I'm curious about that tell me more of that tell me but more of that well you know if I say no you know you're not do you're not having this clunky you know less effective nobody wants to hear and know what they can or can't do and so I've really found what's most sincere is to provide choices you know honey uh would you like to have this up by two choices and say if she doesn't want to go potty uh what would you like Mom to carry or would you like to walk Walking he should always choose her independence walking like okay and so rather than you have to we're trying to muscle that which just creates resistance and friction um you know just talk speaking to her as an adult she's two two years old or just over two years old and I don't speak baby talk to her I speak to her just like I would speak to you I give her context um not that I'm not say full and connected and warm of course uh but you know we're my my grandfather I remember one time he said to me he said you know sweetheart he said I'll walk by a mirror and I'll be like who the heck is that guy uh because you know he almost forgot the stage of life or the you know the physical vehicle of whether it's aged or what it looked like and so the the Consciousness that's looking through our eyes that's perceiving this moment um that's inside of an infant as well and to recognize that she's learning the how-to to go to the bathroom or you know dexterity or you know movement of how to navigate this world but that doesn't diminish the sheer uh intelligence uh innate wisdom her capacity to perceive she is ridiculous emotional intelligence and that just blows my mind and heart and then just you know recognizing that she's come to bring her light you know she's come to bring her love and uh just noticing noticing that she's attracted to noticing what she's pulled to uh and what else surprises me is the position I enjoy the most is actually witness I just simply enjoy to observe her and to observe her making a way in this world I think it's absolutely extraordinary and uh innocently I think I thought I would have been or wanted to be that much more involved and don't get me wrong I am uh and yet I'm surprised by how much I actually just enjoyed it just take her in hmm so she's being integrated into your faith yes or does she have her own faith well I don't know I don't know I don't know how soon that can happen that's a great question well you know rather than teaching her my way I look to just be an example of gratitude and of love and action and to be prayerful um and to reflect what is already her nature and that teaching or anything I'm just you know whatever I have embodied and whatever I can offer uh that's already she's reflecting it back to me I'm learning from her as much as I believe I'm here to even offer or teach anything and so no I really don't have a set you know she was she's just started piano the other day and the teacher said what is uh you know what is your outcome for her you know what is your expectation and I said gosh I said I really don't have an expectation I maybe I hope that she can fall in love with music uh and yet that's up to her you know that's up to her uh and so uh it's been every day is just every moment every interaction um this morning you know she was at breakfast and she was you know she had a big big wave of the lotion and um you know just being with her just being with her and allowing that wave to rise and fall and have its way no different than if you were having you were hurting or having an experience or having your own it's it's kind just to have just to have somebody be present you know to have somebody be there and I tried not try to solve it but just to be there yes yes I and and I'm learning that every day I'm learning that every day uh as well word you know I'm I'm loving and I'm I'm firm I can't say I'm I don't even know the right word of firm but just I I I Look to follow through with my word I say what I mean uh I'm you know I Look to You Know catch myself not to be negotiating with her of you know if if she's as if I and I let her know the way ahead so that she can you know she she can be clear with that but um I think that helps her to self-regulate and to know that I'm not able to negotiate with life you know what I mean um I can't just demand from life and expect life to give me something it doesn't work that way and I'll tell her I'm like honey you can't demand for Mommy you can request if I'm able to meet your request and if it serves I'll do so if not I'll provide her another choice and so uh it's been uh gosh it is an area I'm ever so passionate about and learning in real time and uh she's brought in such a a beautiful light and love to my own life never mind to all those that have the privilege to meet her and I'm just really humbled and grateful and it was a 20 I was pregnant lost a little girl at four and a half months when I was 26 years old I suppose and then miscarried every other time I was pregnant so it was uh 20 it was over a 20-year journey to have oh my goodness yes and uh you know I did multiple multiple cycles of IVF I I think it was actually like 11 or 12 cycles of IVF uh and so there's many obstacles or challenges to overcome and yet I had a hunger and a yearning to be a mother uh and ironically when I surrendered that and thought it was never going to happen is the life came all into place isn't that something oh thank you for sharing that that's that's quite a journey yeah it has been and yet and I think about it all the time I every miscarriage which at the time felt painful different stages and you know uh some early on summer much later and uh you know at that time wanting that so bad and yet I look back now and I think I'm so grateful I didn't have that child I'm so grateful I didn't have that little girl because I I have more to give at this stage of my life you know in all those experiences stripped so much and so I just feel like I'm able to be a better human being never mind a better mother to her from this perspective and um yes God lets us God gives us what we need in the moment right it's so true it's so true how did I'm curious how did you and Jordan introduce Faith to your kids well you know Jordan was always teaching he was always teaching not so he's teaching more from the Bible now yeah it's uh it's his faith has become less academic and more direct yes more direct yes and so I would say that with the children it was they knew that truth was important you know so that that was definitely where we began who was that that truth was that there wasn't a better there was no better way than that either even if it was going to be painful or any other way would be worse so it was just better to just tell the truth so that that was a very basic lesson that we taught the kids from very very young age but I would say you know I wanted my kids to go to church but I never took them I didn't always do the things just like I didn't sit in the front seat of the car I didn't always do the things that I wanted to do and I recognized that now that it and it had and I used to think that maybe it was someone else's fault but it wasn't it was all my decisions those were all my decisions I never baptized my kids either I wanted to and I never insisted yeah and it took it took a long time for me to recognize that I uh let that happen yeah and I think oh well I guess that that wasn't I wasn't that person so I couldn't insist I'm definitely that person now yes but then again that's part of being a grandmother too yes to be that person that you can be that person and I'd say the people in my uh childhood it was my grandmother's that's where the religion was it wasn't in my uh nuclear family not uh there was no practice there was no religious practice and so in a way I think that that's similar to the way it was with my children in fact when I really started to become when I started talking about my faith Michaela had me on her podcast and everything she asked me she was I think surprised because my faith was quite new but my answers were spiritual most of my answers and my coping was all spiritual and so then I would call her and talk to her and I would talk to her about what I'd been experiencing whether you know I'd made a mistake but I'd made amends and you know this guy and she'd say I'm not there yet Mom I'm not there yet and then one day she called me and she said Mom something happened last night and she said I was praying I was praying because I just felt like uh things were lost and I needed help and this morning the help is there oh and she said and she and she recognized it you know and that was beautiful and now Michaela has quite her her faith and her daughter's Faith are quite strong and so even though it's come later in their life uh it's come it comes when it's supposed to I guess it comes when it's fun yes yeah and Tammy you're you're courageous responsibility and self-reflection is so powerful and and yet I can't think of anything one of the beautiful gifts that of my own parents that I just see in you is because my father was an AAA you know he would share his story and he was like look I've done a lot of stupid things and I've you know I've done this and I was drunk and my my grade one uh teacher had asked about my father's name and I guess he had uh he had stolen her father's car got drunk and and took it in and drove it into our small town and literally smashed through the front door of a window of or uh doors of a hotel in our local town and you know he really put his humanness on the table and and uh that allowed myself to see that we're not meant to be perfect we're here and it's okay and we do miss and we do make mistakes and that there's an allowance and a a forgiveness and that forgiveness doesn't come external that forgiveness comes from inside uh and acceptance and and uh you know my parents were so beautiful and so allowing in uh my own Journey to Find what's been true for me in my face and my walk and I'm so appreciative that I didn't have something uh not forced but I have to uh it was a get to and and it continues to be and so you know I really feel with our daughter um I'm not here to tell her what to believe I think it's more important that I can be an example and share what's worked what hasn't worked and as well my misses just like you're sharing yours you know where it's like I I haven't always been here I haven't always thought this way and holy smokes I don't have this mastered right you know and and I think that that creates the space for each of us like what because otherwise we have these interpretations of you know a lot of times people will be like oh it's easy for you you know Tony Robbins or Sage robins and it's like what does that even mean and human you're human you know it doesn't mean that we don't suffer or feel or have challenges just like and that that's where you know that's where we all Nate that's where we all unite that's where um and I I just think that's ever so profound and beautiful there's so much in the external world right now whether it be through politics or in social media or the News That's dividing us but that's where we meet you know we we all need we all have pain we all have sorrow we all have moments of Happiness we all we all walk all these in in uh past that you know we all have things to let go of to forgive to appreciate to um and I think that that is just one of the most beautiful realizations that we are not alone and that we are all one and that we are all connected and what I feel you feel what you feel I feel just in a different context with the people whoever is listening if you're thinking like oh my gosh I can't and I'm suffering so greatly right now I've been there you've been there we've all been there just different time different place different context and so I just have such compassion for us all and what it takes to be to live and and that we were born at this time I'm grateful uh that you know we have the awareness that we do in the areas and then I look forward to every moment at what it offers and because it's certainly an opportunity to wake up here now yes so and I think that's a good place to stop here now very nice you're very welcome and uh to uh share and uh to be with you and it was nice to talk to you we haven't really spoken no any amount of time so this was really really good it is really really good you're absolutely lovely and how are you God bless you for just being a voice and finding your voice I relate to that very much by the way I'm I'm certainly I've been more comfortable to be a support you know I'm sure you probably can recognize that and and yet I feel a call at this stage to um to share to share well I'm glad because human I think you know I ask I often ask women if they'll speak to me if I ask a man to speak to me they always say yes you know they always say yes women sometimes uh they're more hesitant and I I really think that if we're really going to make a difference in the world we have to share you know when I was very sick I I made I I prayed and I said if I live I promise that I will I will publicly I'll speak publicly and so and then I I lived so that was that decision that's a beautiful decision and I'm I'm blessed because of that decision and and I trust that all the everybody who joins and tunes into you um are blessed as well and they will be because of your um courage to be true uh to yourself and to and to live life as sincerely it's it's refreshing and uh thank you well thank you very much and thanks for being my guest thanks for having me take care Tammy [Music]

Channel: Tammy Peterson

Views: 12,132

Keywords: tammy peterson podcast, tammy peterson interview, tammy peterson, jordan peterson motivation, jordan peterson, sage robbins, tony robbins, marriage story, parenting styles, active listening, psychology facts, spirituality

Id: pql8G4eoXcQ

Length: 74min 24sec (4464 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 15 2023