The Living Flame of Love by St. John of the Cross - Stanza 1: CarmelCast Episode 51

[Music] thank you praise be Jesus Christ and welcome back to carmelcast carmelcast is a production of The Institute of Carmelite studies Publications you can find out more about us at our website www.icspublications.org where right now you can purchase the book that we're focusing on for this season of carmelcast we're going through the living flame of Love Study Edition translation of the great work of Saint John of the Cross which was translated by father Kirin Kavanaugh in the 1970s and then revised again in the 80s and 90s if you're interested in following along with the episodes that we're doing throughout this season you can find an episode guide sort of a reading guide in the description of this episode and we're also going to make available a PDF document with that reading schedule so you can print out for yourself I just wanted to take a moment because I forgot to do it last time um to just mention father Kieran uh father Kieran Kavanaugh who translated this work of Saint John the cross and also prepared the study guides that appear in this Edition that has just been released shortly before father Kieran died on February February 2nd of 2019 he had prepared he had been working on this Study Edition and um we have been working on finishing it and and bringing it uh for publication over the last couple of years and uh father Karen was a great scholar of Saint John the cross he spent most of his uh time as a priest studying Saint John of the Cross translating his writings and really spending time uh with the the scholarship that was going on uh particularly throughout the the 1980s and 90s dedicated these great studies dedicated to Saint John of the Cross and so these study guides that he's prepared in conjunction with this work that we've published in this Edition are really the fruits of all of that study and always with the intention of making making Saint John of the Cross better understood because he can be a figure that is often misunderstood or mischaracterized or misrepresented oftentimes or have um people have a a sort of um not correct sort of understanding or idea of of what Saint John the cross is all about or what he what his writings are about and so father Kieran really takes in these study guides that and wants to correct that misunderstanding he wants to he wants to open up Saint John the cross for all of us for the entire church to understand his teaching as something that is for all of us and not just for those who have a mystical bent or have a um a particular proclivity to a particular type of spirituality no when the doc when the church declares him a doctor of the church he's declaring him a doctor for all of us for the entire church and so father Kieran in his study guides he is he is aiming at making this text accessible for you and for me and so that's really just what I wanted to say as a way to promote this great Study Edition and as a way to kind of make Saint John the cross more approachable and not as not as uh intimidating I guess you could say so I'm gathered joined here by father Michael Joseph of Saint Therese for this episode and um for this episode we're just going to dive into the entire first stanza of the living flame of love in the last episode we just covered kind of the prologue in a little bit of context about this work that we're studying uh so now we're getting into the text we're going to spend some time in the text and going through the text um so Father Michael Joseph welcome thank you thank you no it's great to be here and and if I could just say I think it says a lot that father Kieran saw this so worthwhile in his last years of his life when he was sick and infirm and he's thought he was still studying this and working on this and salt is that important for the church so I think all the more it just adds to the kind of urgency of the message of the living flame of love for us so yeah well so in the first stanza um this is where where sort of the we we begin and and this is the this is where uh John has just has just introduced this work the purpose of him writing it and so now we get into the first stanza a stanza that he had written in in years previous um and he begins with this this uh this famous you know first line of this poem a living flame of Love That tenderly wounds my soul in its deepest Center and we're going to go through you know each of these lines and kind of how John St John the cross he presents the sort of images and what they mean for him as as well as what they mean to the soul just in general yeah so uh father Kieran in in his study guide to the stanza he he breaks he breaks the stanza up into um a few parts um really mainly mainly these three these three sort of um outlooks um these three these three positions I guess you could say of uh of time in in particular the time of uh the life of the Soul essentially as from when God begins to direct the soul when God begins to enter into the soul and and the Soul cooperates by entering into the spiritual life um and how for for Saint John as this being a sort of a testimonial poem uh that this these lines have both a present reality for him in that moment when he's writing them they have a past temporal reality in a sense some of these verses he's he's looking back to how he got here and finally he's speaking of what is to come this uh this this this um this consummation that John St John the cross is Desiring uh for himself in in at this time in his life he says now consummate he uses the imperative uh sort of sort of you know break through the veil now um is sort of the sense that if it Be Your Will right and so this idea of of both what he's looking forward to in beatitude and I think the the kind of unique part too is that even though you have this like looking back and looking to the Future and then what's happening right now it's also a real a Consciousness that you've already attained the goal in a way you know it's like it's all in the present in the sense that you're not looking for something else to happen in a way like you're not seeking some other stage but that you've you've attained you know where the Lord wants you you've attained this this Union and now all that is missing is basically that that thin veil is broken now so then you can like fully enter into Glory but it's like you've already you're there now though in that sense and it and it and I think it just gives a a sense of what's possible again you know we talked about last a little bit last episode but that this is possible and it's possible to to not always think like well I I just have to go further this but that no God has brought the person to where he wants them to be and and he's pleased with them there and now they're just waiting for the the veil to be lifted and they can just enter fully in I think in a way that applies to all the stages too the fire that John is speaking of here is pure grace it's the holy spirit it's it's Grace himself right in a sense and and so when when he's speaking of even in the past of how he got to this point it's the same flame it's the same spirit that is within his soul in in those perfect those moments of purification as it is now in in this present moment for him as it will be in in in the Life to Come what's different is is himself yes and so I think I think that's helpful that to and we'll get into this this is this is a major theme in the stanza of how it's the same it's the same flame it's the same spirit it's the same fire throughout all of these different uh positions or outlooks of the Spirit uh with respect to us it's just a matter of how we are changing yes over time yes and it's something you can't necessarily Force to happen you know it's it's a process but you can have a a kind of being content in that this is where God has you and it's it's still the same God like you said it's still it's still him so you don't have to be anxious let's say of where you are you know where am I in the spiritual life per se that like no if you if it's a same guy that's working the same flame then then you can just be present basically to what God is doing yeah so John begins this this part of his commentary with the same image that he introduced in the prologue which is this image of the log uh on consumed with fire and producing Flames from it um and so this this is in um this stands of Father Kieran breaks the commentary of the stanza father Karen breaks up into three separate study guides and you could more or less well they they pertain to um essentially paragraphs one through eight the nine the second is nine through Seventeen and the final is is 26th through 18 through 36. um so in this this particular section uh father Kieran takes uh as it's by itself to go through um this to reintroduce this image and and to explain it a little bit more um what did what do you make of of this uh this image of we talked about a little bit last time brother John Mary myself but what do you what do you make of this image of the of the log and the flame yeah well that the log like like you know already it's it's United to the flame you know it's already been transformed in that sense so it's it's it's so one and United with the fire um that it's it's yeah it's been transformed it's something different in a sense um and yet he talks about these these little Flames or Not Sorry little butt Flames that jet up you know that that continue to to blaze forth right and that so it's so this fire this Union is Habitual it's already there and yet there's it's always emitting Flames which for John talks about them as kind of Acts of Love basically so that these acts of love that come from this Union are constantly being emitted and and there's a great great quote where he says you know one of these is more meritorious and valuable than all the Deeds a person may have performed in the whole of life without this transformation however great they may have been so here you speaking of an act of the Soul inflamed by the Holy Spirit essentially so it's it's if it's it's a soul acting with so much love uh being consumed in love being inflamed in this love that that the acts that pour forth from that that space that that habitude he would he would call it that habitus a state of a state of um having having acquired in a sense or being given in a sense usually through acquisition though through the practice of the virtues and and through the development of the spiritual life of the person though uh this habitude um the situation for the soul in that place one act of love in in inflamed with the spy with the fire of the spirit is greater than all the other ones yeah uh that come before it yeah in that sense well it also gives us Insight too into just like what what does please God what is God actually looking for you know it's it's not necessarily the the greatness of our works um but it's his own work you know he wants to see his own work in a sense so this transformation that only God could have done like you said but after you know a whole process of of of fighting and acquiring and but then God just takes over you know and so it's now God is the one at work he's the one acting and so the Flames that emit it's God loving through US basically and God's Flames emitting through us and then that pleases God to see his work you know and it's so meritorious because it's now just God basically God has taken over right yeah so the the meritoriousness of the ACT is the result of of the Union of the wills our will with Gods completely without any without any separation or without any inhibition or without any any sort of uh separation yes and it kind of shows us what what our goals should be often is is if we just put our energy you know into just wanting to be United to God and and whatever that takes whatever that means then we know that our lives will be the greatest thing possible you know and it's not so much about the individual things that I could do or the great things that I might be attracted to it's allow God to transform me and then even one of those acts will be greater than anything else I could do yeah I just want to read from the living flame of love what Saint John the cross says just to tie it back to this image that he uses of of the log and the flame uh and you'll hear this language of of habit and act that he's trying to explain here he says the same difference lying between a habit and an act lies between the transformation in love and the flame of love it is like the difference between the wood on fire and the flame leaping up from it for the flame is the effect of the fire present there we can compare the soul in its ordinary condition in the state of transformation of love to the log of wood that is ever immersed in fire and the acts of the soul to the flame that blazes up from the fire of love and so it's this image of the the log is consumed the log has been is a flame and from that is shooting up the Flames further Flames which are which are where speaking of the act and so the log itself isn't the log has become entered into this habit of of of of consummation essentially in a chemical sense but also in the in the metaphorical sense the beatific sense yes yes there's nowhere else it can go it just Flames up now yeah good well I I loved you know it'd be great to spend uh as you know as much time as we could on on on stanzas one through eight but I want to I want to move us along into the second section that that father Kieran has for us which are uh the commentary of paragraphs 9 through 17. and father Kieran calls this section the anthropology of the double Center and this is a really beautiful a beautiful image that that that that the Saint John the cross gives to us can you can you explain what's going on here with this idea of of the of what is the what is the center sure and what what is it not I guess well I I just preface it by saying you know I've I've spent uh long long hours you know trying to figure this out throughout throughout my last maybe 10 years or so what does that mean the center and John explains it um in a way but for some reason sometimes it seems to it doesn't always seem to be totally clear what he means by the center um but but the way that John explains it you know he he Compares it to a rock basically he's saying like that or the center is where like let's say a rock where it's inclined towards going basically so like Iraq you know with gravity although John didn't probably know about gravity I don't know I don't want to say that but I'm not sure but the Rock and they're a satillian sort of sense exactly so it was like like the Greeks did exactly and so and so the rock you know in its weight you know and in its movement you could call it wants to just keep going down down down until it would get John says to the Center of the Earth right then it would be at its Center because it's reached kind of where all of its aspirations all of its meaning is moving it towards um and so so then the Soul you know the center is not a part of the soul I guess and that's that's the thing that would trip me up I think you know and and when we talk about the center we always think of it as a location a physical location um but that John says no because the soul has no parts you know it's a spiritual reality so you can't talk about like a location in the soul where something would be um but you speak analogically in that way and but it it's Center though would be like where all of the energy all of the aspirations really what the soul is made for like where it's meant to go if it was not inhibited you know by other things like the rock if it wasn't inhibited by the the some of the soil it would keep going down right right and so the sulf it's not inhibited where it would go um and and and then he gets to that famous line where he just he just lays it out the soul Center is God yeah okay you know the soul Center is God so follow Kieran explains this this reality of uh well he brings in a lot of this a lot of this Greek philosophy um and it's really actually really helpful and it's really insightful because this is something that John would have understood for himself [Music] um father Kieran writes in explaining this this image that following Aristotle Saint John writes that the deepest center of an object is the farthest point attainable by that object's being and power and force of operation and movement uh and so we know that the Aristotle in particular but the Greeks in general had this idea of finality uh they believe that that all of being had this sort of Final End uh and and they call it a final cause it's sort of the the cause that they're the cause of their being is what they're aimed at and so uh just as The Rock has an inclination any will really any object uh this is what the Greek centers should gravity to be any object has an inclination downward this is what keeps us from floating off into space according to them and so the this rock that he Saint John of the Cross is using this image has this inclination to to attain uh it's it's it's uh most deepest or or the deepest uh position possible for it which would be the center of the earth and so this is this is the idea of center of being in the center it's it's the farthest point um of its in inclination to be at the center that's that's attainable for it and you know maybe it we can understand now understanding geology that maybe it's not attainable for this Little Rock to be at the center of the earth um but but this is sort of the idea that we have in the soul is created by God and it has as its final end God himself he creates us for himself and so we uh we our soul our spiritual our spiritual nature our Supernatural nature is at has an inclination towards God in some sense um particularly the baptized Soul has this inclination and and by in in being you know filled and fed by grace and in the development of the spiritual life it has this inclination to attain its end which is God itself God himself yes I think it felicirin put it well to in concisely and how he just said you could see like the center is the goal kind of like the center is the goal and and how love then really is what brings us for for John love is what brings us to our Center because God is love um and it says he says when it has reached God with all the capacity of its being and the strength of its operation inclination it will have attained its finest final and deepest Center in God it will know Love and Enjoy God with all its might and so he says you know the more the soul gives itself to love then the more it goes into the center you can be in your Center or you you can be in you can become more in your Center but not fully uh you know I mean that's the whole journey right you're going more and more towards your Center who is God more and more towards the goal but each she says each degree of love that you grow in you're getting deeper and and and I think it gives us maybe a good sense too of like again the the whole goal of the spiritual life you know is to go towards our center it's it's you know it there's no other aspiration really like it just shows how radically we've been made for God you know there's no other aspiration in life really that's worthwhile that in any way would take us away from that Center and the only thing that would be worthwhile is what brings us to our Center and we all want to be centered you know we all want to be at peace um and John lays out like well this is the path you know this is the path to that and and it's it's trajectory is not is not delineated by by uh our willing it either and and so it is a desire of course but it's it's there's also something about it that is that is freely given by God and Grace yeah um and it is something that that it begins uh in the baptized soul in in the gift of of God dwelling within you right and so um the the movements towards the center are going to be delineated or they're going to uh it's going to be possible insofar as we are um we are uh maintaining that state of grace and insofar as we are cleaning the way you know sort of like I picture like the Seven Dwarves like mining through the mine uh to get to the to get to the the most precious the most precious jewels uh in the cave and it's not something that that uh that that they can necessarily attain on their own but it's something that is given by God and we cooperate with and our I guess our cooperation is is that mining right mining away the all of the ore that is is worthless that is does not pertain to our ultimate goal uh this is this is our participation in this movement towards the center yes and so there's not like a method of of spirituality that that is that is oriented towards attaining this Center essentially because it's it's a given that's the right I mean that's the beauty of it too is it's something that's kind of it's It's how we're made it's it's how we're constituted and so we don't we don't have to like Wonder like you know in terms of discernment you know are we called to this yes like we're called to like go to our Center because it's already been given to us yes yes it's already been given to us in our baptism but it's a matter of of us uh moving away from it yes we have we're like NASA we're shooting that back up into space yes rather than rather than digging to the dog you know but it's all yeah it's all within that's the thing yeah someone might might might um you know and John sort of sort of anticipates this uh what what does John say to a soul or to somebody who who considers themselves um either not worthy or or perhaps this a thinking or an attitude of this being too good to be true of it being attainable in this life because it has a big that's gonna be a big theme in this book we're talking about something that John himself has received in in his lifetime yeah and and is it just for the mystical doctor or is it for all of us so what what does John say to that that sort of sentiment yeah because he he recognizes that people are gonna argue against him and say this yeah or don't even care maybe that they don't they're not interested in this or they think it's not possible and or maybe they just don't see it around them at all so I think how is this you know but John has this special Grace to see it you know he has a special Grace to describe it as best he can um and there is a great quote of like kind of his reply um would you want me to read that I want to read it because it's my one of my favorites so this happens in in uh in paragraph 15 uh beginning in paragraph 15 of of the first the commentary and the first stanza um he says yet I reply to all these persons and here he's speaking of the persons who who doubt that this is something for them or that that this is something attainable or that is receivable in this life says I reply to all these persons that the Father of Lights who is not close-fisted but defuses himself abundantly as the sun does its Rays without being a respecter of persons wherever there is room always showing himself gladly along the highways and byways does not hesitate or consider it of little import to find his Delights with the children of this Earth at a common table in the world so it has a lot to unpack when we were talking about this quote earlier what did you mention well I just you know it's just so full of biblical citations so a full biblical thought it quote you know in the actual text there's two that It quotes but almost every three or three yes but almost every other every line is is from the gospel you know or from Saint Paul or the letter of Saint James um or from Proverbs you know about being defining Delight with the children of the earth um and it just yeah so it just shows how ambued John is with the scripture but then how I guess how Evangelical this this teaching is like how rude it is in in what God actually desires yeah you know it's not just John because he's got these great experiences he just assumes that everyone else will or something or yeah he's just trying to be very generous or something with with his teaching no it's like this is who God is he's saying and and so we can't doubt that yeah and so this is the second instance that we've come to in the season of of John's response to somebody who may may doubt that this is something that they can receive in this lifetime in both times what does he do he has records to the gospel yeah yeah it's it's like what moral I mean I don't need to prove it to you I can just point you in the direction of of what our Lord has said with respect to this and so uh we have to take seriously the Evangelical life as as is as is proposed to us in the gospel and in Jesus's own words yes and it's it's a real call to confidence too because as we know for different reasons we can't always see what God is doing and we can't we don't always feel like you know there's Flames of Love leaping from within us you know or or you know or whatever that whatever wherever we are in the spiritual life I think reading this instead of saying well that's not really for me or like I'm so not there I can't really relate to that be like God I trust that you can do this in me not only that I trust that you Delight yes and doing this in me yes yes I think that's that's this idea you know God the father is not closed-fisted you know he he gives open-handedly and and it's not uh he's he's he's not uh keeping track or keeping count of uh of how many times we walk away or or walk towards him yes it's it's God's joy yeah to do this this is it's him being who he is Yeah Yeah by doing that and it's the purpose of our own creation as well yeah I want to transition because um this is this is I think a a section of of this book that it could be very helpful for people and it is when um St John lacrosse is looking back and this happens in in paragraphs 18 18 through 26 uh he's looking back at at his experience of uh trials tribulations purifications uh the process of letting go of one's attachments uh the processes of of being detached passively by God's Own willing it all of these things and he he recognizes in looking back that it's it's the same fire the the fire that purifies is the fire that inflames that he's speaking of in this book um and I think this there's there's sections in here that can be that can be really helpful so I just want to I just want to read when he arrives at this and this isn't this is an this is in paragraph 19 of the commentary he says the very fire of love that afterward is united with the soul glorifying it is what previously assailed it by purging it just as the fire that penetrates a log of wood is the same that first makes an assault on the wood wounding it with the flame drying it out and stripping it of all its unsightly qualities until it is so disposed that it can be penetrated and transformed into the fire and so the again this image and and and he he he pulls the analogy to come earlier in the process of the of the log even becoming inflamed and and pointing out that it it's not something different that there's no there's no uh uh fire starter in the log you know you use use to get the Christmas fire rolling or something like that it's it's the same fire it's the same log um and and this is this is an important reality for us who may be experiencing this pure these periods of purification of these seasons of dryness these seasons of aridity because it's the the same thing that you are anticipating and hoping for and and praying for and Desiring is is the same thing that's that you're experiencing right now in a sense just in a different just in a different way yeah yeah and it as he points out it's because of you know the condition of the log right defines how the the action of of God's flame will affect it you know so yeah so based on he said same law log same flame but based on where the log is it's going to feel it very differently and and we've we've probably experienced that in some ways in our life you know I think I think of as a little kid when when uh like when I would not get up you know for school and my mom would eventually have to come in and rip off the covers you know open the windows wide and the light just pours in and you're you know you're just not in a place to get that light and rejoice in it you know it feels oppressive it feels like it's hurting you more than anything else um or or I think even even sometimes we've experienced where based on where we are let's say someone that we assumed a bad motive of or that we were kind of judging maybe a little bit or criticizing all of a sudden they do something very loving for us right because of my where I was in that moment my critical nature I experienced that love as painful almost because it makes me ashamed in a way you know because I I was under undervaluing that person let's say and they did something great and so so my own condition in those moments means that the love that's being communicated to me or the light let's say will affect me very differently you know and so so it's yeah it's the same flame but he says before all the Soul's infirmities by this flame are brought to life they are set before its eyes you know the misery of it but then he says to be felt and healed right you know yeah and so there's this idea of of you know it's going to it's going to cause some uh separation isn't isn't always the easiest thing even when we're separating from sin or from a life of imperfection and and you know habits that aren't healthy for us because because you know the light the light shines and and and what we see isn't always pretty yes and and our reaction to that site is is oftentimes through shame yes but you know the truth shouldn't cause it shouldn't cause us uh to be ashamed no you know we should this is this is the message of the Gospel exactly it should it should draw us to seek God's mercy exactly that's the thing it it brings it to the surface and that's even like good right psychology in a way you like bring it to the service but then then to be healed you know then to be given to God and then he can take care of it I don't mean to say that shame isn't isn't healthy it's it's just it's it's it shouldn't stop there because it's not an end you know yeah it's it's a it's a motive to get you to to The Next Step exactly right yeah yeah the other sort of thing that can be painful in in uh from this is is the the inherent contradictions within us yeah um and and Saint John the cross uh brings this up in uh paragraph 22. he speaks about the Contra the con the contrary is within us um our desire our good desires and our our inherently broken desires he says for a wonderful thing contraries rise up at this time against contraries those of the Soul against those of God that assail it and as the philosophers say one contrary when close to the other makes it more manifest I imagine like two magnets here like two two uh positive magnets and you try to push them together yeah uh that analogy breaks down because they're both positive but but you know what I mean there's that that you you put them together and it makes the force between them yeah and further apart this idea of when you when you get God into the into the midst of your of your sinful inclinations uh it's it's going to it's going to stir stir up uh in you um some probably repulsion and and probably some uh reaction in a sense so they wore within the soul he continues striving to expel one another in order to Reign that is the virtues and the properties of God extremely perfect war against the habits and properties of the Soul extremely imperfect and the Soul suffers these two contraries within itself and so you can you can you can even uh we all can relate to this right I mean this is something that we've all experienced and um it's the the one is ultimately stronger than the other we know who's won this battle yes yes and so uh insofar as as we are striving on this road we are striving for a life of Union with God uh we ought not fear of who's of who's going to win because if we stay on the side of of good and light in in the fire within us the the call of our baptism and we're living that baptism then then we're going to be fine you know we have to trust that God is going to Prevail yes in the midst of this and and it's it's a good sign to just hope in the midst of the battle that that there is that this is something good that's happening you know and that it's something necessary too it's it's like you can't escape this stage you can't jump around it you know I remember just a little anecdote once telling my future director when I was a novice you know just like I don't know what's happening you know if this is good for me or you know blah blah blah like because of the Interior battle gets strong and then I wish it especially and and he said you know what it's gonna happen sooner or later and that really helped me it gave me consolation because like you're right I'm gonna have to deal this sooner or later I can't I can't escape it I could go back to the world put it off keep doing things put it off but eventually if I really want to reach my goal I got to let it happen you know and so we realize this is a good thing this is the flame of love that's causing these things even though it feels so painful maybe I want to read one one other quote uh in here that is that is so uh incredible when this flame Shines on the soul and this is he's speaking here this is this is right after the the previous paragraph that I read earlier when this flame shines in the soul since its light is excessively brilliant it shines within the darkness of the Soul which are also excessive the darknesses of the Soul which are also excessive persons then feel their natural and vicious darknesses that are contrary to the supernatural light and they fail to experience the supernatural light because they do not have it within themselves as they do their darknesses and the darknesses Do Not comprehend the light this is a reference to the prologue John's prologue John the evangelists prologue to his gospel the light the darkness does not comprehend the light in in the presence of the word being made manifest on Earth and in within us in our baptism yes yeah and that's it's it's I think a helpful tie-in too to show like that this presence of the light honestly is the same it's the same light that's going to purify us that the darkness can't comprehend in in the afterlife you know that that's what that's a good sense of what Purgatory is that John says you know that that you've already you're you're in a state of grace you know you've already won in a sense but so the darkness hasn't won out but the light still needs to have make its effect you know the flame still needs to have its effect and and his thing is it's so again so it helps us see what Purgatory is too that it gives us a sense of purgatory is not this place of just like punishment you know it's not this place of just like you know this or how people always see is like this eternal waiting room or something you know that it's it's the flame of Love still but that has to do its work in us and and as our whole spiritual tradition teaches um and and our theological tradition I believe too is that it's better to do it now you know we don't know exactly the Dynamics but but it's better to let that process happen now as opposed to waiting for it and so just to speak to people who may be experiencing some sort of you know spiritual confusion in their life um you know John I think here is very clear that you know there's still work to be done uh but God is with you you know you might not be able to comprehend it because of of the various darknesses that are present within your reality within your life within your habits within your sin but but God is working yeah and and and and the experience of of Darkness the experience of of the lack of God's presence is is is one that is that is in a sense the result of our our eyes have not yet adjusted yeah to This Light yeah but it's a it's a it's the flame will do its work yeah the flame will do its work and it's a good loving flame that will eventually glorify us right yeah and uh we just we have to our our faith will be strengthened through it all yeah in these trials well just so to finish up we have to get through the end of the stanza at least yeah um John finishes with with uh the the consummation of all of this he he speaks of um in the second second of uh aspect of this uh of this first stanza um now consummate uh and he's using the imperative here now consummate if it be your will tear through the veil of this sweet encounter and so here John is looking is looking towards uh from his present perspective as someone who's attained some some aspect of Union in this life um his desire uh to break through that final Veil is is is is ever present right ever before him yes but there's a kind of um there's a kind of gentleness in the sense of or of like a it's it's a real kind of delicacy of saying si quieres in Spanish if you want you know um you know if it Be Your Will as it says in English so it's it's do it but like but it's it's I only want what you want at this point in my life like I want so bad of course to be to consummate this to be in glory to be with you um but all I want is what is what you want and that's this that's again that's the the result that's the fruit of Union that's what union means in a sense you you just all you can do is just will what God Wills even the greatest thing that you that you know he wants for you but you only want it as he wants it when he wants it in that sense right he speaks so he uses the immature of the of these three veils I wonder if you have in your notes anything about this because I'm looking for it as I'm flipping through these Pages here well I think um one one aspect of the veils is that you know he says the first is is creatures you know this veil in a sense has already um has already been broken because of the purifying work of the flame basically our attachment to creatures you know our attachment to things that aren't god um and and so the flame has purified that the second is the natural operations of the Soul he talks about so like our own you know tendency to just kind of think on our own will on our own just sort of spin our Wheels you know just using our natural Powers again in a way that's not necessarily centered in God and he says but that's also now been purified now we think as God wants us to think we will as God wants us to will it's all centered in God now um so he says the last thing is is the Earthly life of the Soul that's like like just the just whatever's holding your body and soul together is kind of the final Veil that he's asking he's asking God to to finally you know break that so now you can you can go in yeah and when I think of a veil I think of like some Lacy sort of thing that's very easy it's like oh I can see the light through this is very very translucent in a sense but I think you know he's speaking of in this first failure speaking of something that I think is is what is uh what is um yeah there's something there that is that is and it's something something within us that is that is causing us not being able not being able to see the light uh and so maybe in in using and having this this imagery of the of this temporal Veil this veil of creatures is that it's probably something a little bit heavier yeah um that is causing us not to be able to see you know through three three curtains maybe yes uh down the line of of God's glory of of the light of the flame as it comes into us and yet and yet maybe the veil image is that does work in that sense too because we do see enough light though to kind of like keep us going you know to see what the goal is so it's not totally blocking it right that's true and and then that kind of ties into the last the last uh verse tear through the veil of the sweet encounter tail through the veil of the sweet encounter where it's that last Veil now that he's specifically talking about um and and he talks about you know the death of Love here the death of love so he's he gives this beautiful kind of distinction between kind of just dying a natural death and or whatever might tear that final veil of the body and soul separation many things can do that we know of course but he's saying but there is another path to these to to these ones that God has brought to himself in this way that they would they would die of Love um that love would be what finally tears and and there's a great um quote where he says it is vital for individuals to make acts of love in this life so that in being perfected in a short time they may not be detained long either here on Earth or in the next life before seeing God and so it kind of gives a sense of like the death of Love is what we desire where love becomes so impetuous you know that that love that God has poured in us the Flames are leaping up so much that it's like our bodies can't handle it anymore like our body and soul just it's too weak you know and so and he says maybe other things have brought you to it that weakness you know maybe sickness maybe other things old age but that that's not what takes you out of this life it's actually this impetuosity of Love um and we're celebrating this year you know it shows how the Saints connect there was a saint you know that we know if it's our 150th anniversary this year um who was very who was very inspired by that particular verse particularly in the last last months of her life yeah that's another plug uh coming soon uh shortly after we in fact it's the next book that we're re-releasing is a new edition of of trez's last conversation so keep an eye out for that in the coming probably next couple weeks really less than a month I would imagine yes but I can't see the future so sure that Veil is thick um well good I think we've covered a lot of material here so next week we're going to begin right in stanza two and we're gonna we're gonna go through the first half of the second stanza which is has lots of lots of things for us to consider so we welcome you to join us again next week as we continue our study of the living flame of love and the Study Edition prepared for us by father Kieran Kavanaugh thank you for joining us now and have a blessed week blessed Easter and God bless you amen amen

Channel: ICS Publications

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Length: 44min 9sec (2649 seconds)

Published: Mon Jul 03 2023