How to Become a Person of Love

don't talk about a government agency taking care of these things don't talk about some institutional program that will look after the homeless and the hungry and so on no you do it you do it there are hungry people right near you we feed [Music] them welcome back to the word on fire show I'm Brandon V the host and the senior publishing director at word on fire almost all of us want to be a good person but how do we actually do that how do we become a person of love that's what we're discussing today with Bishop Robert Baron joining us from Rochester Minnesota Bishop good to see you hey Brandon how you doing today pretty good I I I hear there's some exciting developments and updates with the new pastoral Center that you're building there in Rochester tell us about that yeah as we record these words I'm not sure when the show will come out but as we record them I just got back from a meeting at the new pastoral center it's about oh six or seven minutes from We're recording these words it's in Rochester here and we're moving you know the headquarters of the dases from Winona to Rochester and through a wonderful uh donation from a a great Catholic here and other donors uh we got property and we're building a lovely pastoral Center uh and I I brought in an architect friend of mine Matt mcnicholas from Chicago who was trained at Notre Dame in the In classical Catholic architecture and he sort of enhanced the building to make it more Catholic in appearance in the center of it it's got two Wings in the center though is a great chapel and uh with a rose window and a vated ceiling and it's it's not finished yet but we got in today and I really saw the the height of it and uh even now it has a a great magesty and Beauty about it so I I'm just thrilled uh it'll be a huge upgrade for us in the dases to move from where we we had been in Monona to here and I think it'll be an evangelically important sign to the community because as you come along it's a it's a major Street as you come along you see this beautiful U the back of the chapel with the rose window from the other direction you see the facade of the building and so I think it'll it'll proclaim the gospel in its own way so very happy about it when do you expect it to be mov in ready well they say April 30th uh so what about four or five months from now uh um and it we broke ground in late April so they they build that building pretty fast uh so I'm just delighted by that well today I want to talk with you about how to become a person of love you know when you ask people on the street what's the purpose of life religious people non-religious people probably the most common answer you'll get is to be a good person and you and I have quibbled with that answer that's not necessarily the full purpose of life but it does raise the question how do you do that how do you become a good person what does it mean now in answer to that you've often quoted Dorothy Day who once said that everything a baptized Christian does every day should be related to the Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy in fact if I'm not mistaken when you were Rector of mundeline Seminary you had posters made with that quote and you hung them up all around the campus what is Dorothy getting at here and why are these Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy so important it's one of those quotes that was just Illuminating from the moment I read it you know certain things you read and it just kind of takes your breath away and you say yes that just sheds light in every direction I think the reason Brandon is it so concretizes what we mean when we say love so right everyone wants to be a good person everyone's devoted to love great but what does that mean it means to will the good of the other and you say okay I get that but that's still kind of abstract what does it mean to will the good of the other and her answer was it means the Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy these works of love right an Outreach in love to those who are suffering in some way now we're talking concretely about the Christian Life I like how Pope Francis likes that word uh concrete you know to make something real uh because we religious people especially we can sometimes lose ourselves in gassy abstractions okay so I'm a person of Love well that looks like something it looks like these very particular acts and so it's it's a great way of anchoring your spiritual life and your moral life I just realized maybe there's there's probably some people listening who aren't familiar with Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy so maybe we could back up one step and just give us a basic overview of what these are we're going to walk through each of them one at a time but what are these in general well we just probably name them right to uhh to feed the hungry to give drink to the Thirsty to clothe the naked to um um provide shelter for the homeless um to visit the sick to uh bury the dead I'm always missing one V visit the imprisoned visit the imprisoned so they're they're very concrete aren't they they're they're very uh particular uh no no don't talk about a government agency taking care of these things don't talk about some institutional program that will look after the homeless and the hungry and so on no you do it you do it there are hungry people right near you we feed them you know so it it anchors the moral life in a way that that is is um both unnerving and liberating so you listed out the seven Corporal Works of Mercy there's also seven Spiritual Works of Mercy I thought maybe we could devote a discussion to that in a couple weeks or so I want to focus on the Corporal Works of Mercy today uh would you would you say it's correct that we as people aiming to be people of love should use these as a litmus test that these are the marks we should measure our love against yes because if you say all right to love means to will the good of the other and do something about it all right now show me show me precisely how you're doing that and it's got to show up in your life as these works of of Mercy to those who are in need um so yes I think it's a very good way to ground the uh the Christian Life all right so let's go through them one at a time I thought if nothing else this might be a good opportunity for all of us to use uh as an examination of conscience as as we're discussing these think through am I am I following these myself yeah uh maybe maybe we can group the first few together so the first three are feed the hungry give drink to the thirsty clothe the naked how do you read these three very basic needs of people that have to be met um again we can fly into the realm of abstraction oh I'm helping people well well how there are people who are in need in this most basic way now you say oh I guess you know overseas so I'll send some money to the missions well fine I have nothing against that please do it and that is a way of doing The Works of Mercy but we can forget Brandon very easily I don't care who's listening to me right now trust me within 10 minutes of where you're sitting there are hungry and thirsty people there are I lived for six years as you well know in Santa Barbara California one of the most you know exclusive parts of the world Oprah lives there montoo uh Prince Harry lives there you know Kevin Cosner movie stars live there I lived I don't know 15 minutes from where they live I didn't live in a in a fancy smancy neighborhood but a Santa Barbara but but 10 minutes from my house in Santa Barbara maybe less than that there were people who were hungry and thirsty and on a chronic basis so don't think that the hungry and thirsty and and those who need decent clothing are just in some distant you know Asian or African country they are no matter where you're hearing me they are within 10 minutes of you so what are you doing to help them now homeless shelters and soup kitchens and great believe me there's one not far from you I don't care where you where you are there's one not far from you go help out give money to it yes indeed be a a presence at a place like that um yes vote in accord with some of these principles sure do all those things but I I like the direct involvement that you personally kind of getting your hands dirty so to speak you get involved in these activities but you know think of something Brandon as simple as a a mom preparing a meal for her kids well that's a Corporal work of Mercy she's feeding the hungry you know um think of someone who's was getting a a lemonade for someone who's who's thirsty after a run or something sure that's giving drink to the Thirsty so it's not like just the dramatic cases of you know those who are in dire need but even even though simple gestures of of assuaging someone's hunger or thirst clothe the naked um there are people who are in need of like warm clothing a lot of people listen to me right now within 10 minutes of you there are are centers that provide clothes for people that need them um babies who are you know in in poor families that that need Basic clothing um one thing I mentioned I think at maybe at the good news conference um I said the closet is a very interesting place for some spiritual work what I meant was you go into your closet and trust me you're going to find all kinds of things in there that that you don't wear that you haven't worn in ages there's a shirt why is that still here I haven't worn a thing in three years well that's a very good sign that it's time to give that away um someone once said to me there's a there should be like a expiration date on clothes like on food you know like if this this shirt expired in you know 2019 um good go into your closet and find shoes and shirts and pants and coats that you can and should give away and give that's clothing the naked right so I like the the particular concrete quality of these things you know you shared that that Dorothy Day quote just kind of rocked your world and left an indelible Mark I there was a similar quote that I encountered when I was in college um at the time I was a Protestant and there was an Evangelical writer named Shane Clayborn kind of an Evangelical version of Dorothy Day wrote a book called The irresistible Revolution about serving the poor and he said this he said I I come to see that the great tragedy in the church is not that rich Christians do not care about the poor but that rich Christians do not know the poor and his his point was that it it there's an indirect way to help the poor through Charities and organizations and donations all those are good things we should encourage them there's something radically different when you go into the street and physically give food or drink to somebody or physically give clothes to somebody why why is that a different type of interaction because it it reaches to the fullness of your being it's not just the vality that would be the the most abstract nor is it just a you know sending a check it's something that involves the totality of of you it as I say getss your hands dirty or Pope Francis it gives you the smell of the sheep you know uh so I think that's that's a it's an incarnational understanding of these of these works you know the closet thing again interesting I think I got that idea from it's been attributed to both John christom and to St Ambrose the line that if you've got two shirts in your closet One belongs to you the other belongs to the man who has no shirt um talk about a quote that takes your breath away right if you let that one sink in I don't know I mean look at all the shirts I got in my in my closet many of which I don't wear anymore uh and you kind of wear the same thing every day yeah that's right I wear a lot of the same look every day basic black um so they're such a good challenging and um and in incarnate way of um expressing love so those are the first three of the Corporal Works of Mercy feeding the hungry giving drink to the Thirsty clothing the naked the fourth one is visiting the imprison is this one we should take literally that all Christians should be going to prisons and visiting prisoners yes uh i' I've many times quoted Johnny Cash one of my musical Heroes but who played in prisons all the time famously you know the falson prison and all that and he was asked why he did that and his answer was well because I'm a Christian which is a perfect ly satisfactory answer to that question I think so yes indeed it does mean that but you know he broaden it to there are a lot of Prisons aren't there uh elderly people that are kind of imprisoned in their own home sick people that can be imprisoned uh in on their own bed people imprisoned by addictions people imprisoned by by their fears imprisoned by old hatreds they can't get rid of you know there's a lot of forms of of incarceration and so do we visit in a liberating way those who are in prison maybe think about that when you again I I like your idea Brandon of of a way of examining your conscience I I find that very helpful when you go to confession so that you don't just kind of repeat the same formulas over and over again but you really examine your conscience one way to do it is with the um uh deadly sins or the Ten Commandments but this is not a bad way either how have I done or not done the Corporal and spiritual works so as you're approaching your day all right who are imprisoned people that I'm likely to meet today uh or that I should go to meet today and visit it's a good question I think there's a lot of us at word on fire whom you've counseled and helped over the years and I know one bit of advice you often give to somebody who's who's really struggling in a dark period whether because of depression or doubt or sin or they're just going through something tough and a bit of advice you regular give is go out and do an act of love and you use these as your reference why is that the right path to take I've been saying that for years because I you I preached that to myself too look if if if the Lord is right about this that that you'll know that you're my disciples by your love God is love the goal of life is Union with God and therefore we have our answer that's the answer and I think it's proven experiential over and over again that when you're preoccupied when you're afraid you're anxious you're depressed there's a kind of as Augustine said right in cvat and say you've caved in around yourself go out go out and not just you know to find entertainment go out in an attitude of love and you'll break free of this kind of black hole quality that's I think our metaphor for incurvatus in say would be a black hole that just draws everything into itself uh to break free from that is to to engage even in the simplest Act of love doesn't be you know Mother Teresa but I mean just how about write a note to someone that you haven't talked to for a while that you suspect probably could use a word of encouragement offer a compliment to someone who needs it right um help a kid who's struggling W with his or her studies in school um bake cookies and give them out I mean do do do anything that will break you free of the black hole tendency of of sin that's what I mean um and so when people write to me they do sometimes saying just that like I'm just lost I'm in a black depression you know and and I I don't know the person well enough to be giving like really good psychological or counseling kind of advice but I I I always say that it it all right is step one perform the simplest Act of Love today and then tomorrow do another one and the next day maybe do two acts of love you know and it can't do any harm the person probably needs I know needs more you know personal attention and and maybe psychological counseling and medication even who knows and nothing wrong with any of that but as step one perform the simplest Act of love and I think you'll find a way out of that hell well the fifth Corporal work of Mercy is shelter the homeless and it's easy to think of Dorothy Day once again uh she and Peter Moren founded these houses of hospitality where they would regularly uh welcome people off the street to to sleep as long as they needed to uh what does that mean for the rest of us who maybe aren't in a position to you know literally welcome homeless people into our homes or or is that what the church is driving at here well you at at the limit I think but look everyone knows in our country it's it's it's um worsened enormously in the course of my lifetime the homelessness problem my years in La I was there for you know six years and it was appreciably worse when I arrived in LA and even in Santa Barbara when I arrived there and then six years later it was appreciably worse go up the coast in California San Francisco and other places homelessness here in Rochester Minnesota which is brutal as the winter is now arrived you know so yeah to be aware of that problem and do something now now that might be you know in your in your contributions in your in your political commitments um but yeah you know that you do something to provide shelter now maybe it's working in a homeless shelter maybe it's contributing to a homeless shelter so different ways you can do it but but that problem has only gotten worse hasn't it uh in our time all right let's move to the sixth Corporal work of Mercy which is visiting the is sick how should we understand that is that I mean something everyone can do from oldest to youngest it seems to me we all know someone who's sick um in the hospital in a hospice care in nursing care someone who just has a bad case of the flu and they're in bed uh everyone I bet listen to me right now knows somebody who's sick and could stand a visit when I was doing Parish work Brandon many years ago I I was very devoted to this and not that I found it easy I didn't um the prospect of getting in the car and driving to a hospital and spending a couple of hours you know visiting parishioners but gosh I always without exception came back from those visits uh full of joy you know I always I always thought of the S they went out they went out full of tears carrying seed for the sewing they come back they come back full of songs carrying their sheaves that's what it was like for me when I was go to the hospital to visit parishioners is I kind of went out with with tears like with some resistance but I always came back uh laughing always came back with with a song right um do it do it visit people who are sick um we all know somebody so it's again concrete hard to do yeah sometimes annoying uh difficult yeah but do it visit the sick I like how this Corporal worker Mercy is not heal the sick make them feel but visit why what about visiting is important it's an act of Love isn't it it's it's being with someone it's it's willing the good of the other as I've I've come just to be with you and uh I remember this is some years ago when I was really sick I won't go into all the details but I just come out of a a surgery and I I was say I didn't want visitors at that point you I like please go away but then after a few days you know no I I craved having visitors you know um because we all know it's it's a tough time and it's it's hard to it's hard to you know be yourself when you're sick and so visiting means a lot all right let's turn to the last Corporal work of Mercy which is burying the dead and I know you have a particular memory of your father in regards to to this Corporal work of Mercy how how he practiced it and and uh and counted it it's where I learned the term this is when I was a little kid and my father you know was good Irishman he went to a lot of wakes and he was a Salesman he knew a lot of people and um that combination meant he went to a lot of wakes and he'd come home from the wake and I'm a little kid and we're kind of wondering what were you what were you doing you know what's the what's the point of that he wouldd always say Corporal work of mercy so he must have learned that when he was a kid in Catholic you know grade school so going back into the 1920s and what do you mean a corporate work of mercy and he said well that's one of them is burying the dead is that you're attentive to the needs of you know those um the families of those who've died Etc and so that that's where the phrase first got in my mind and biblically goes back to Tobit doesn't it you know in the Book of Tobit who who buries the Dead who were left lying on the ground and not attended to and so it was a work of Mercy for them and for their families and so again when I was a parish priest I spent a lot of time bearing the Dead uh I spent a lot of time in funeral parlors going to wakes and then presiding at funerals and then driving behind heres to cemeteries and doing graveside Services I spent a lot of time bearing the dead I would tell my my guys at at mundeline when I was Rector you know as a priest you're going to do the Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy and one of them is that uh you'll be 26 or seven years old it's a beautiful summer day and you're following the third hearse of the week you know but that's the game that's what we do we do the corpal and Spiritual Works of Mercy so that's um again a concrete expression of the church's life as we wrap up here I wanted to ask one more question about these Corporal Works in relation to families bouncing off something you said just a little bit earlier is I talked to a lot of mothers and fathers with lots of kids and they they already feel overwhelmed thinking of adding all these extra Corporal Works of Mercy to what they're doing but I know for me there was once a priest who impressed upon me the need to practice these within the family how parents are naturally already doing at least six six of these things every day Fe the hungry think all the times Brandon you Kathleen fed your children and and give give them a drink when they most days yeah a few days you just leave the starve no so right and and clothe the naked well look how many babies have you brought home you know naked from the hospital then from that moment on you've been clothing them so yes that's absolutely right and even you know visit the imprison not that your kids are imprison but they'll get imprisoned by all kinds of you know their their fears or their anxieties or whatever visit the sick are you kidding parents are always at the bedside of sick kids right um so yeah that's absolutely right it doesn't have to be you know the dramatic Dorothy Day Mother Teresa expression but it can be very every day [Music] [Music] absolutely well it's time now for our question from one of our listeners today we have one about Sin the the passing on of sin here's the question hi Bishop Baron my name is Gigi and I'm wondering since I did not inherit the sins of my parents why did I inherit the sins of Adam and Eve thank you for taking my question goodbye yeah thanks it's a good question um but see I I would quarrel with your major premise because I I think willy-nilly you have inherited your parents sin I don't mean that your parents sin is a applied to your own will like you're responsible for their bad choices but sin is like a contagion you know it's like a it's like a dysfunction in a family so think of a kid born into a dysfunctional family where alcohol abuse or drug abuse or physical abuse or whatever is on offer whether that kid likes it or not he inherits in that sense the sins of his parents you know the most dramatic example would be um a crack baby right there's a baby that's that's born to a mother who's addicted to crack the baby is born addicted to crack even though the baby's not morally responsible in any way but de facto the baby has inherited the sin of his mother well I think sin is kind of like that it's it's a poisonous atmosphere that we're in and you I think about my dear parents you know uh sure the quirks or or limitations of of theirs that that I inherited or I was affected by and I think that's the best way to understand original sin that we do indeed inherit now this whole long history of human dysfunction beginning with our first parents but coming up through the whole of human history sure we inherit that you know it affects us again not to be a signed to my personal will but that's what the church teaches original sin is not a signed to my personal will but it's like a poisonous atmosphere um see again that's why we need not just a teacher we need a savior we need someone that can come into the dysfunction but is not of the dysfunction see if Jesus is this is just one more human being well they're as affected as I am they might be smart and interesting and they might offer some political Liberation or whatever but they won't save us the Savior has to come from outside the dysfunction and enter into it we say he's fully human and fully Divine because only such a figure can really save us he's only human well then he's stuck in it with us he's only Divine well then he's hovering above the mess but he's Divine and human now he can function as a savior and that's why we need him to save us from sin and all of its manifestations thanks for that question and thanks to all of you for joining us for this discussion on the corporal Works of Mercy again probably in a couple weeks here we'll have a followup discussion and we'll walk through the Spiritual Works of Mercy so look forward to that one listen as we wrap up here lent is right around the corner when this episode drops it's only going to be about a month away lent actually is going to be on February 14th this year it's on Valentine's Day so good luck to a lot of couples uh trying to figure that night out but at word on fire we are once again releasing our lint Reflections booklet so you can get your 2024 lint Reflections booklet to today and we want to send it to you for free you can get a free copy you just cover the shipping and handling um you can also order bulk copies 20 50 100 or even for your whole Parish I know tons of parishes do that each booklet features The Gospel reading for every day during Lent from Mass along with a short Reflection from Bishop Baron so you can Journey Through the scriptures throughout lent um hundreds of thousands of people have been enjoying these books over many years so learn more get your free single copy and then order a bunch more to pass out to friends or family or parishioners you can find out more at the website wordonfire.org l224 the website's wordonfire.org l224 I'll include a link to that in the show notes well thanks so much for watching and listening we'll see you next time on the word on fire [Music] show

Channel: Bishop Robert Barron

Views: 146,651

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Id: ylP5AKCd_Qg

Length: 29min 4sec (1744 seconds)

Published: Mon Jan 08 2024