The James Bulger murder: inside the chilling police investigation | 60 Minutes Australia

not only is it unforgettable and unforgivable the abduction and murder of james bulger remains unthinkable how could two ten-year-old boys snatch a two-year-old toddler away from his mother in a busy shopping center and then savagely torture him to death three decades on it's a crime that continues to traumatize police who worked on the case in tonight's special program british detectives take us inside their investigation we hear the chilling interviews they conducted with killers robert thompson and john venables and they recount the horrific moment they realized these children were capable of such evil and for the first time james's three younger brothers speak publicly about the enormous loss their family has endured [Music] i've always lived in liverpool and i think it's a great city basically like one big family back in the 90s was the same [Music] i've always wanted to be a mum and coming from a big family i've always loved being around kids james was loved by all but as he started taking more and more steps he didn't then walk into a room he'd run into the room he loved to make people laugh he was a little character [Music] it was a really cold small i did put a big thick house on him his house his gloves scarf a girlfriend comes walking in she says i'm going to be australian do you want to come i mean yeah i'll come with you that was the biggest mistake of my life [Music] the strand shopping center in bootle is probably the only shopping center in bootle actually it's been there since 1966 i think i was actually the beat officer for the strand for about a year so i got to know all the shops and all they set out of the strand really well [Music] we were long in the strands at all on the way out i decided to stop off at the butchers got james that was starting to run all around the shop and i thought this is not good and i had the oils of his hands um within seconds of me reaching for repairs to pay for the chops that i had bought he looked back down and that's when the discovery had gone i've run into the reception and and said you know your little boy's gone missing and he said okay we'll put it over the channel and um we'll get get the words out there the longer it gets i mean i think even a minute of losing your child seems like an hour your dad's just all over the place you just one side of them you just want to grab them [Music] i got a call saying that there's a child missing you have this thing this golden hour where you're searching and james had been missing for about 40 minutes so i already would eat into that before we even started so things started being geared geared up at the station and people were coming out soon she hear them words police are getting calls and you know it's serious denise at that time obviously she was very very upset so it's quite difficult at times to make out what she was saying and to enter to keep her on the details that we needed from it well i was trying to sort of find out what such a little boy james was and whether or not you know he would he was a sort of kid who would wander off on his own or not [Music] it was getting late on as well started getting dark i had some visions of him being out there somewhere in the dark freezing cold and i just needed to get him back [Music] i had dealt with missing children nothing on this scale [Music] i can remember actually the call it was it was an unusual call because they would inform me about an incident that would generally not be escalated to the cid the scaling investigation even prior to my arrival was significantly higher than you would expect but this wasn't a normal situation all of the available officers in bootle were involved in the search the shops are shortened the police asked me to go to the police station and as it finds it really hard because i thought once i leave here it's it's leaving that place it's leaving that point of where you are seeing your child and you're leaving that show without them but you walked in with them and it it's just it was such a hard thing for me to do [Music] i was really really worried about james because of the proximity of the canal that was my big fear actually at that time as if james had been wondering uh and the thought of you know access to that canal is is relatively easy mias was everywhere i felt like it was gonna explode i didn't think they knew what to say or maybe blaming me i don't know [Music] we had to interrogate the cctv system about 10 past one we were still there and i got i got a message from one of the detectives who said he'd seen something on cameras that he really wanted me to look at as soon as possible [Music] clearly you could see james hand in hand with with with two other boys being led away in the strand you had to look twice because it was surprising and i remember having to think what does that mean it was just it was just something i just didn't expect to see from that moment then the focus and the priorities changed [Music] we knew that that james hadn't walked out of the strand alone he had walked what had been certainly guided away from from his mother by two other boys it was an abduction james is abducted from way over the the far end of the strand which is sort of right across the other the other end on the ground floor and he's marched at some speed from one end of the strand to the other end of the strand hand in hand walking out through this door denise just to realize that james has gone missing she'd be searching the neighboring shops she'd be asking people have you seen my have you seen my little boy and be thinking he's there nearby as everybody would yet the shocking thing for me is that but it took just over one and a half minutes one minute 31 seconds i think it was to from james being taken to actually leave in the strand [Music] as you remember the press conference i didn't care about the cameras i was just more concerned about getting my voice out there to get james back i wanted to let people know that he was mine not theirs and if you've got them and he's in back i want him back [Music] we do have a number of video uh photographs from the precinct itself showing the boy quite clearly apparently following the two youths that we're very anxious to trace it may well be that the child did follow them so it is very important that we do trace these two boys if you've got me babies thank you very much your first thought is well it's two kids taking them away that that's good rather than such a being an adult [Music] two children taking him off perhaps they've taken him home perhaps they've sort of taken him off to play or something like that you know how bad can it be custody were clearly juveniles i felt in my own mind and it was me being positive that it's likely to be less sinister than if it was an adult you know it might be a prank that's gone wrong i felt relieved i thought i'm i'm going to get them back here there's no way they're going to be able to hear something they're too young to raise them when i saw the images it gave us something to go to but it was confusing so then i said keep going and see what else we get see how many other images we get and see whether we can track and which way would they be going what what camera close-ups of the security photos don't reveal the youth's identities but police say they're both white teenagers one wearing a leather jacket throughout saturday there was enough a lot of information coming in too much information for our team to process parents were keeping tight hold of their children today outside the shopping centre from where two-year-old james bulger was apparently abducted [Music] well we've got you know james james being led away by two boys who we got around them we need to get those images out because we need to identify the people who were the witnesses because they're seeing them full-on but at the same time our focus was on really searching [Music] i got a feeling it wasn't looking good as the days were going on um i thought of two two lads as in one of the too scared to pass them back not because it's gone out there you know it's all all over the news all over the papers nevertheless and i'll pass them back [Music] it's now well over 30 hours since james went missing from this shopping center the already serious concerns for his safety have been further heightened as he faces his second night away from his parents despite the fact that that we would see him taken away i really believed that we would find james on saturday i really did and then uh and then on a sunday they just said we need to go up to walton lane because they found a body [Music] police officers combed waste ground near a reservoir this morning a member of the public said she saw a boy like james with some youths here yesterday local residents were asked to check their gardens but so far there's no sign of the missing toddler [Music] we were informed of a missing child at 20 past four a 20 past four james was not far short of the reservoir so at 20 past four everybody is looking around in shops for a boy that's missing and these boys with purpose with determination with speed uh at a mile away [Music] i decided that i would take denise out in a police car and just give her some fresh air basically just to sort of keep her occupied for a while said come on we'll go for a little drive around just to see if we can see him and as we're driving rounds mansi gets it a call and i got a call saying um come back to the police station immediately and switch your radio off so obviously i'm sitting next to her so i'm aaron what's going on i know about how come you're being called back to the station she wants to do it now i've been used to she when i was owned she went honestly i don't know about new zealand so because i know i said they found him and i knew i knew then that he'd been found and i knew it wasn't going to be good lying protected under a police tent the body of a boy found this afternoon by officers hunting for two-year-old james bulger the body was discovered on a railway line over two miles from where he disappeared they just said there's a buddy on the railway i was praying it wasn't james i still wasn't convinced until i actually saw my own eyes i've experienced most things in life lots of tragedy this was different totally different and you just couldn't put your finger on it as to why and why cause so many injuries it's almost like someone places a veil over your face a black veil and you can't see beyond the field you you know voices but you you can't hear the words she let out this terrific scream and then just sort of um just sort of collapse on in on himself but it was just terrible to hear [Music] i just felt numbness [Music] i was a mum without a baby [Music] but even then i think i was still in denial i think i thought you know they've got it wrong it can't this can't be true your ultimate objective was always to return james safe and well to the family and yeah the realization that that wasn't going to happen was yeah it was it was it was devastating [Music] a lot of the bobbies have got kids of their own and i think that was it this could be any child you know it could have happened to anybody i did go for the identification of james's body when james's uncle went to identify him it came out and he was just speechless and broken it was terrible to see the circumstances surrounding the way the body was left at that time we couldn't really have an opinion on what happened well it was clear though you know it was uh it was devastating devastating injuries it was definitely not an accident all evidence that pointed out to be a murder our job was to identify children in the area between 10 and 18 who had been involved in sort of assaults and violent behavior somewhere some parent must know the time the children were out the time they come back and the clothes they were wearing it's got to be somebody must know [Music] my name is laurie dalton i was a detective constable for 26 years in merseyside police so i was i was called over and there's a conference at stanley road police station we were all told that james had been found and now it was definitely a murder inquiry the blurred images of two youths seen taking james away are now all over the city the public say detectives hold the key to finding them you know you have a situation where we see two boys taking james away we don't know what's happened to james but clearly it's going to be a bad situation we were working our way through any leads the different photographs to different images working on the cctv but there was so much going on the the images were such that you couldn't make out any detail when i gave the description i think i said something between 12 and 15. [Music] it was an area where there's a lot of children have been in trouble with the police and of course they were rounded up and they were interviewed i think over the course of the investigation over 60 individuals with 60 boys were either brought into question or question so i repeat the appeal that we've we've made anyone friends family or whatever you know we must interview these two boys because if we don't we can't guarantee anyone's safety until they've been arrested [Music] [Music] you know i wasn't concentrating on what was going on on the outside wales i just locked myself in a room and when i finally got to watch the news i could see the you know our angry people when you know i felt i felt and a sense the love for james in the city one of the points in in where james body was found that that evidence meant that james had traveled probably on from foot strand to walton lane it was a business called amik they had a camera that was covered in their car park and when the when the owner returned to work he had a look at it he saw the images of of james with two boys walking past [Music] when the images came back to us there's a small wall and we thought that that gives us a benchmark maybe for the height you know it's not 100 because of the poor images but we had to open our mind to the fact that instead of looking at a 12 to a 15 year old you know we might be dealing with smaller children here but the idea that it could be done by juveniles or even children was you know it was off the scale [Music] [Music] we've got a breakthrough i got a call from a police officer in walton lane who told me somebody had been into walton lane was a bit beside herself really she'd been at a family friends on on friday the 12th and their son he'd come home in a right mess dirty bits of paint on his jacket and he'd been sagging with another lad from the same school he's only 10. he looks a bit like it could have been him on the foot on the photo but you know it's probably not that's all she said i just want to let you know and his neighbors john venables she said he went to saint mary's school in bedford road so i got the the number of the uh the headmistress you know i said too low it was john venables at school on friday and she said no he was sagging with robert thompson i said can you tell me about the thompson family who she knew really well the fact that he was a he was a persistent truanter the thompson family lived in a walton village there relatively close to to where james was found i select certain detectors if they come out in the morning if they're available of course they were quite eager i said well we are going for two ten-year-old boys so don't have your hopes up too much i've arrested quite a few kids but there's no way i could relate to a child actually committing a murder [Music] [Music] they went to the home address as we we had it from the school said listen this is why we're here i want you to come to lawler and ask some questions if you've got the cope that you were wearing when you went you know when you were sagging on friday a few things were said odd things not necessarily admitting being in the strand but i think venables said at one stage you know are you going to speak to robert [Music] myself and the officers delegate office go round to thompson's house i knocked on the door the mother came to the door i told him why i was there and i wanted to speak to robert and then i see thompson and his eyes are everywhere and never did i ever see from the moment i met him to all the time i was dealing with him did i ever see him in fear i sit him down and i start speaking to him why i was there in simple kids language and that i needed to take him from his house for him to answer some questions in the police station that's when he started to cry i got a call off phil i remember saying jim these these are these little children said i can't consider that this little added to this i couldn't believe a ten-year-old could cause so much suffering so they were arrested at seven the first interviews didn't take place until 5pm but from the first moments that they were they were brought in venables mother had said what venomous it said he was going to say he wasn't in the strand he said that the two of you were in the strand and that you saw the little boy you never there was a bit of evidence that we got from this shop here the manager reported to the police that on the morning of the 12th two boys who they were 100 convinced with the same boys who abducted james they were hanging about by the door and they had their fingers all over this pane of glass so what the detective did when the fingerprint and take all of the marks from all of the glass at the front and as a result of of those lifts those fingerprint lifts we were able then to match them immediately to john venables fingerprints despite what he said he was in the strand when you interview a child not only do you need all the evidence we have to prove that they know what's the truth and that they know it's wrong what they've done so right and wrong truth or lies this interview is being safely called it i'm detective sergeant roberts now what's your full name robert thompson i then started interviewing and sort of getting involved with the story what they were doing that day i'm dominic lloyd i was robert thompson's solicitor at the time of the case a solicitor arriving at a police station can normally expect to do a lot of waiting in this case there was none of that we started work straight away because that's the only work that was being done there it was a small interview room so just picture it table wall and the tape machine what do they call you roberto bobby i think bobby's a a more friendly name do you agree yeah he wasn't frightened he wasn't fazed by anything some people might say because he didn't understand what was going on he knew what was going on i just want to know a little bit about you now okay what's your hobby then skipping school skipping school i really could not bring myself to believe that he had any involvement in this just from his youth just from how small how young how childlike he was bobby i came out to your house this morning didn't i here um what did i say to you a lesson correct or for james james what what about james that you said my suspicions made to them well very well remembered robert thompson's interviews he admitted quicker he was in the strand i think at one stage really early on he says he saw james with his mother did you ever see him in the strand he's okay again yeah was that on the day that we're talking about was that on this friday yes the escalators never going through the doors that just lose off [Music] who was he with no little james with his mom [Music] and then his interviews quite quickly get to the stage where he has uh john taking his hand and taking him out he was just running around was he james yeah you tell me exactly slowly right the boy was street wise that was one thing about robert thompson he was quite confident in himself i don't think he recognized the fact that what he'd done was that bad how did he come up to john i [Music] [Music] he was switched on definitely switched on and he was trying to calm me trying very hard [Music] we knew even before we started interviewing them that they'd been in the strand because the the fingerprints put him there and he said but you took him by the hand and let him out of the strand shots you never oh [Music] you know there's no moment of euphoria here we've got them there was one desire and that was to get to the truth when you arrest a young child something horrendous as it was you've got to try and build a friendship otherwise they'd oppose you and would not speak to you at all you see little james is following you up on stage right but on another picture john it appears if john had hold of his hand yeah why why are you questioning me and john as well there was nothing coming from edibles but he was a different character altogether the first and second interview venables just told us about how he was playing true and getting up to mischief never been near the strand i think i thought it was true god's choosing i'm telling you that you never he was too scared you're probably too scared john saying to us that he wasn't down at the strand i know you're at the strand but why should he lie to us by saying that he wasn't in the strand he's scared of saying that he was down in the strand because something happened didn't they like the manga yeah not by me [Music] i know the truth i believe that's right correct but i know that a lot of things have gone on yeah you need to kill them it wasn't never even killed them thompson was calculating he cried whenever there was an awkward situation and he was immediately given a mars bar and a can of coke and he latched on to this because when i say he cried there was not a drop of water there wasn't a tear [Music] he thought he was going home because he kept on asking well am i going home twenty fifty-five tonight we don't know yet we don't wait and i want you to tell me [Music] foreign that is a warmth mind very rare in kids minds it's a chilling thing to say with hindsight at the time it simply seemed to be part of a pattern of desperate lying of desperately just trying to talk about anything else other than this was able to talk [Music] that's quite a bit cold very eerie the fact that he actually said it in the way james would have said it [Music] once he started to admit that he was the one with venables to leave the strand that's when your heart is pumping and you feel like punching the air now you want to go further at the end of interview three we tell him that robert thompson has already told us but he's been the strand and then he admits being in the strand yeah we was but we never saw any kids there can you go down to any kids so you weren't in brooklyn was you in brutal strength [Music] [Music] and then he admits you know being with james and and then taking taking james so we walked up to him and we were walking around with them and i took his hands i lose idea was it to walk towards him that's when i felt sort of boom you get a bit of a thud thinking oh my god we have got the right kids john venables was frightened of upsetting his mother susan just you know said to him look you know we'd always love you we'll always support you you really need to tell the truth and so that was the breakthrough then that led to the next interview a short while ago as is detailed on your custody record out there you had a conversation with your mom and you then requested that myself come into the room is that right yeah and what was it you told us [Music] james [Music] you know he actually said those words you know i killed him [Music] [Music] in a private room his mother sat with john and basically said you need to tell the truth we'll support you don't be worrying and basically he said i killed james i killed him [Music] what was it you told us james it was really difficult to consider that anybody could carry out those type of injuries to another individual the idea that it could be someone as young as 10 was difficult to comprehend when we went outside now what for don't know we said let him throw him in the water he was persuading him he said kneel down let's look at the water and all that but he wouldn't because when we wouldn't get him down nobody kicked him up and threw him on the floor and that's where he got his bump on his head this then became the difficult part because now we've got two ten-year-olds who have killed a two-year-old and we have to then make sure that we provide all the evidence that we can to show what happened what were you gonna why are we taking you to london village don't know me tomorrow too you walk along where it's a stranger [Music] sought to remove himself from any of the most violent actions putting them all down to robert thompson i didn't throw any drugs because robert said pick up your hop in front of you through it on the floor we were getting information coming through that uh he was now blaming thompson we certainly admitted throwing stones and things like that but he's blaming you for a lot of things well i want to know the truth right now the whole truth there's other things going on his name they both started blaming each other i'm going to end up getting all the blanks on me we're asking you and we want you to tell us the truth at all not give the blame to you or anything else but it's only the truth that we're can we just go through slowly right what john did with what's right you said your head to the break first these are the boys that took james we had the individuals responsible what was robert saying while he was doing all this we seem to stay down he's stupid why do you want him to stay down i don't know don't do that probably where did the stones in the bar hit him in the head and you said the bar knocked him out yeah wanted to really try what happened no he was just lying there to finish now because he can't speak anymore by time the interviews are over john has made an admission robert hasn't and said it was all john and john has tried to push and blame in robert's direction and that was the point at which we left the police interviews and that remained the case throughout the time that i was acting for him through to trial that story didn't change we add enough evidence once we have enough evidence we charge [Music] boy standing the other side of the charge desk he can't even reach the top of the desk and when he got charged i thought how could you as a 10 year old boy cause so much misery to a person's life two ten-year-old boys from the walton area have been charged with the abduction and murder of james bulger well i was kind of relieved because i knew that he couldn't take another child because i strongly believe that they were in course when they were they would have gone on to do because they would have got away with it [Music] from early this morning local people still furious at the death of james bulger began to gather outside south sept and magistrates court you want to give them to the people and let them sort them out [Music] let them go they chanted i don't know what i imagined i was going to see when those two boys came into court you know what kind of monsters i conjured up in my mind but you couldn't have expected to see anything more ordinary and more unpre-possessing than these two tiny little boys looking very lost and bewildered who were led into the courtroom [Music] when i got off the funeral card i just seen two sides of the roads lines with people but i just put my back down because i just wanted the day to be over something in james patrick has touched the whole world we wish so much that we could bring james back i always kept thinking i shouldn't be doing this you should not do this i should not be putting my child down there it was a real sense of loss because you felt he was like you don't really that's the way i felt [Music] in two separate police vans the youngest defendants to face murder charges this century arrived at preston crown court this morning conviction was out of our control really but we sought a conviction because that would be the justice that the bulger family deserved i just wanted them to spend many years behind bars police and lawyers have spent the nine months since james bulge's death gathering evidence for the case richard henrique is queen's council leading prosecuting counsel i felt more emotionally involved than i have done in any other case and seeing two 11 year olds in that dock was a shock in itself in relation to robert i think he was frightened of it he understood that there would be enormous attention on the trial there would be crowds outside court and they would be likely to make attempts at the vehicle he was in the fact that the boys were intimidated well at the end of the day they did what they did and if if they were then scared by going into court well tough [Music] the witnesses actually appeared got very very upset because i think they felt such guilt and not being able to stop it and the fact that they they hadn't actually intervened to the point where they'd take james off these two boys james was apparently seen by dozens of people on his journey eleven of them came to court today many said they thought he was with older brothers i don't blame them witnesses whatsoever yeah he could have been saved by one maybe more no one expected to ten years to take a child and do what they've done i am convinced that they had one intention and that was intention to kill him [Music] they're just plain evil the forensic evidence was chilling 42 separate injuries to james a minimum of 30 separate blows either with bricks stones a metal object or feet to the body of james so it was a prolonged shockingly violent attack which frankly could have had no other purpose other than to kill thompson's trainers had been removed without untying the laces the police had seized his trainers they were able to take an imprint of the laces as they were tied was a double bow there were some very marked uh d-rings they were called through which the laces had been laced the evidence as to why these marks were made by robert's footwear and ultimately the evidence concluded were the scientists had taken a a life-sized doll and the footwear and placed the footwear in contact with the doll's head where it would make the impression that was visible it was a moment of clarity for me yeah yeah i had had by that time quite a long relationship with him and during which time he had denied all involvement and to be presented with with a picture like that didn't break my relationship um it just meant that i had to i had to be aware that there was something else in it now yeah [Music] the evidence tells us what thompson and menopause did they acted with a purpose they acted with precision and they inflicted deadly injuries in a manner that's just beyond words no one could believe that two ten-year-olds could do something like that it'd be so evil on another child the two of them were as evil as each other so i strongly believe if they would have got away with james's masa they would have gone on to commit another crime they would have gone on to take another child and do the same to that child [Music] [Music] i wanted to wear the sentence that they were given that experience in itself you know sitting so close to that tough my son's life took my world away from me destroyed my life [Music] it's so close to me i couldn't believe that he was standing there laughing you just want to see the ones you took your whales away from you go down [Music] it was an absolutely packed court [Music] there was always a worry at the back of their minds that you know maybe the joy couldn't get beyond their age um maybe the jury would try and find some way to avoid an actual conviction for murder [Music] the form of the jury was asked if they had reached verdicts on the abduction of james baldr on the murder of james bulger have you reached verdicts yes they had [Music] had there been an acquittal that the competence of our criminal justice process would have been seriously questioned at that point the judge he took the verdict [Music] guilty [Music] robert thompson was gasping for her he was in a state of absolute shock john venables was crying it was a moment of the most terrible drama the to come in was a relief because it gave the bulgey family the the justice that you know i think they deserved and i think it was the right verdict when robert thompson and john venables were driven off into custody he'd sentenced them to detention at her majesty's pleasure and told them they'd be locked away for a very long time to come i remember the judge at the end of it he said you will both save very very many years in prison and i was i was pleased that i'll come i found out a few weeks later that very very many years meant eight years that's not what i thought was gonna happen i do remember thinking how am i going to tell denise this that wasn't just a kick in the teeth it was a stab in the back if they'd done some time in jail if they'd heard the clang of the prison gates then i think there would have been some feeling that well you know what they were punished but all they did was spend time in a secure children's home they were in a children's home they never spent one day in a young offenders institution never mind an adult prison you can't get away with music that's someone's child that they've taken and they can't get away with it me and anything that you know they're not even going to reach and it's all prison they should have gone from nazareth [Music] [Music] my name is amanda knowles and i was the children's resource centre manager at barton moss i would see robert on the unit but every month i would see him in that formal setting of a secure unit review he would sit curled up in his chair sucking his thumb it's like he'd regressed you know because he knew that what he'd done was very serious and he wouldn't be going back to his mum anytime soon my name is david james smith i did a great deal of research tracking back into the boys backgrounds in robert's case i think has been described as an urban feral child just generally out of control [Music] i don't hold the view that children are born evil some staff had real difficulties with that in the beginning coming to terms with you know what robert had done but with the help and support of psychologists they were able to provide the care that enabled robert to be successfully rehabilitated and returned to you know to society [Music] i did spend a little bit of time at red bank and came into contact with with john i saw in john a boy that was more troubled than robert i suppose that the word you'd use is it looked more disturbed i sat at the dining table with john we were joking about fighting and i said something to the effect that he couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding he replied oh yeah bring your baby here and i'll batter it [Music] john venables parents had had difficulties with depression the police had been called once because susan venables had left her children unattended she had issues with alcohol and that she came from a family in which there was you know known to be domestic violence there's loads of kids out there who come from bad upbringings and you know bad family backgrounds and stuff like that i don't care whether they're bad or brought up that didn't give them the right to go out and take the life of a child my child [Music] i was just crying uncontrollably i was just i couldn't believe it i thought you haven't been punished for measuring my son i felt like i'd let james down as i didn't think i've falled hard enough [Music] he was collecting child abuse pornography online and going online pretending to be a woman with a child who they were offering up for other people to abuse definitely did say told you so when he really offends us i knew all along it was going to happen i didn't know when it was going to happen but it didn't happen it's happened [Music] i'm opening the r scene through them now and i'm hoping that they are realizing it is a danger and is a dangerous society [Music] he just has all this done up for his birthday it's just our little way of giving him something really isn't it it just makes us feel better as a family as well because he knows he's not forgotten he'll never be forgotten by us i didn't think for one minute i'd be standing with a new family looking over the sun that i lost when i first met stewart he didn't he didn't know i was james's mum but once we once the wall comes on you know i couldn't mess a better man he's just pulled me through so much because i married stewie thomas was three months old and obviously we had michael and it was such a lovely day and you know that day i couldn't stop smiling because i could see my family growing again i'm leon fergus and i'm james's brother i'm tom fergus james's brother michael fergus james's brother being james would probably it's not a weird thing we've always grew up knowing he was there who he was what he was like his character in the household we do we talk about james a lot we don't pretend that he's there but we talk about him as if he is there he's always been a character that we wanted to know more about wishing wishing he was here rather than just being someone that was in the background all this time it still is weird seeing about james on the news to this day obviously it always will be we shouldn't be looking at him on the news about a kid being met with we'd rather him be sat next to us going off life if we would like walking around shopping that she'd always make sure he shoots the back so she can watch us walk forward in front of her she wants to know where we are all the times she's the ones that got us anyway but actually that will always be in the back of my head every day and actually it's scary to think that it closes it a close-up happens again so if i go to time we meet she's going to be worried she'll text me every five minutes i can't even enjoy myself because she's always texting me as a kid you're a bit like oh but i want to do this someone do that but obviously growing up now you'd understand why why she was like that what are you doing you'll get there i've seen him growing into a young man now who's going to become a dad himself so yeah it's a new chapter in our book [Music] through what's happened with me mum and james as becoming a dad seeing it from me mums see my mum's eyes really it is it's going to make me more protective and hold the baby closer than you'd think anyone could [Music] james was let down by us really because you know his innocence was there for everyone to see he was a two-year-old so to see his innocence taken away from him like that is really really sad when i think about it he's always there with us we're always there for them [Music] every single day even after all these years i miss him i miss gravel no i missed him you know getting on his own adventure whatever he become do or whatever every single day without james he's missed you

Channel: 60 Minutes Australia

Views: 1,168,251

Rating: 4.769979 out of 5

Keywords: 60 Minutes, 60 Minutes Australia, Liz Hayes, Tara Brown, Liam Bartlett, Tom Steinfort, Sarah Abo, karl stefanovic, 60Mins, #60Mins, jon venables, robert thompson, james bulger, murder, children, liverpool, killed, kidnapped, chilling, crime, kids, kid killers, young, innocent, torture, rocks, train, mother, parents

Id: 0Liupgs_fXU

Length: 67min 47sec (4067 seconds)

Published: Sun Jul 25 2021