The House of the Dragon Iceberg EXPLAINED

hello and welcome to bend the knee A Song of Ice and Fire podcast I am sir Matt the bud Knight and I am sir Jimmy of house nuts and this is the culmination of a lot of work in a lot of parts for an iceberg yeah absolutely you know Jimmy you sort of brought up these Iceberg theories to me I've seen a couple in the past but uh we decided we should do one for House of the Dragons season one it goes a little bit further into it as well as some of the events in Game of Thrones some changes possibly to the show as they're making a connected verse there but this was a lot of fun we did this in three separate parts so if you're listening on the podcast you can view or listen to each one as is or you can you listen to or view on YouTube the whole thing right here and this was an absolute ton of fun and the theories they start out you know pretty straightforward and then the deeper we go the crazier they get so let's kick it off right here with our first Theory are the maesters working against viserys Targaryen a long-running theory and A Song of Ice and Fire is that the maesters have a grand conspiracy to destroy or control Magic one key moment we see in Game of Thrones is when Samuel tarly goes to the Citadel and is essentially laughed out of the room for even bringing up the idea of white walkers still being in existence in the books the maesters have also speculated to hate the targaryens as they dislike magic and Dragons their hatred for dragons and Magic was described in A Feast for Crows where an archmaester of the Citadel marwin the Mage stated who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around gallient Dragon Slayers armed with swords he spat the world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles much less dragons so even if there is hate from the maesters towards the targaryens how are they moving against viserys and House of the Dragon well hand of the king Otto Hightower his house was integral in the building of the Citadel and still funds the institution it is the central home for the order of the maesters we've already seen the hand of the king make King viserys Banner his brother from court in episode 1 of House of the Dragon furthermore the King was also shown to have injured himself while sitting on the Iron Throne an injury that the maesters cannot heal or fix furthermore the medieval cesarean performed on The Queen was also the grand maester's suggestion an event that didn't end well Otto also seems to be tightening the grip on the king and making his daughter Court the king and ultimately marry him after his wife's death all of these events further indicate how Otto Hightower and the arch maesters have weakened viserys he lost his wife and brother within a couple of the days and he has an incurable disease and now they are getting closer to fully control him one of the things that I was most excited about House of the Dragon is that as a firm believer in the grand maester conspiracy is that I felt like we were getting breadcrumbs to lead us to the conclusion that this Theory just might be correct and in the books we that strongly believe the grand maester conspiracy is a huge huge plot it's one of the if you just go look up the biggest Game of Thrones song fights and fire theories this one is always towards the top it's been a it's been as long running as R plus L equals J and I felt like the show because we didn't spend that much time with maesters or at least maesters that were sort of conspiring that we didn't get to sort of see that it was just that one scene of Sam getting laughed at the room in the books it's far more prevalent and even in the history books there's a lot of back and forth sort of issues with the maesters much of Fire and Blood and you know world of Ice and Fire here is told to us through these two perspectives mushroom and you know are an arch maester they have back and forth's accounts and this is the the text that they're using to adapt House of the Dragon so you even see this like this favoritism towards certain things right and certain people in the books that's being used as the text to describe and ultimately create the show House of the Dragon I think they did a great job here and you know Otto's keeping viserys as we see towards the end of the season sort of at Bay with milk of the poppy and it feels like there's maesters always around him working on him the minute that viserys dies the you know the maesters in the room on the small Council like okay well we'll just you know we're moving forward with our plans yeah they were ready to go and you know another person that throws a lot of shade at the gray rats as she calls him is Lady Dustin in the Dance with Dragons it starts for me that was the first time it really opened up my eyes be like yeah you know the maesters aren't a pretty interesting position here and and we see obviously the Baratheon in House of the Dragon season one who ends up not being able to read gives it to its maester you know there's a lot of power there so I've always been very very weary of the maester since finishing reading the series and to see that this is kind of being perpetuated in the show was uh was wonderful for me I really enjoyed it so I I'm actually a believer of this conspiracy theory oh as am I I think there's a lot of evidence for the glass candles at the Citadel as we see in the in the main books some of the theories we will be going over today I mean I should say is we're in full spoiler territory we haven't spoiled anything yet but just so you know we will have to be obviously I think in in full spoiler territory you know the whole the whole thing about the dance of the Dragons is that it's basically also kind of called the dying of the Dragons is that this is really the height of the Targaryen Dynasty and this Civil War causes a lot of these dragons to die and there aren't you know many left for much longer after this so after this man I feel like the Masters begin to rise a little bit more in power too you know there's also the faith which plays a part so there are these sort of other organizations out there doing thing and I think so often we just view it especially because of the show it's like oh it's House Lannister or it's house Stark or yeah you know Tully or Targaryen or Baratheon whoever ever trying to Vie for power but that's not always the case the maesters and the faith are both strong institutions out there also vying for power yes very very important institution and as magic leaves the world and Dragons leave the world it's these institutions that will will uh kind of fill that power vacuum left over from that so um you know I just think they could have done a better job treating visares that's all I'm saying I saw some Winks you know between the maesters and uh in Auto and I don't trust them I don't trust them at all Matt no I don't I don't trust I don't trust them either but I definitely believe uh in the idea of the grand maester conspiracy both here in House of the Dragon if really all this did all this season one of House of the Dragon did uh which George has said multiple times is better than his books so you can kind of take that for whatever Canon you want but all it does is sort of add even more weight to that theory yeah and it's a lot of fun um and you know this is uh like you said this is tier one of the icebergs so some of these might seem kind of obvious but as we go down deeper one some of the stuff we have for you in the last part folks is absolutely insane look I can't believe some people believe some of this stuff I can't believe people wrote articles about it on the internet and then they got as many views and run Reddit and as much attraction as they did but we're going to dive into them we're going to dive into them and uh you know I'm just saying that to say there's a lot of things on this iceberg that I don't necessarily believe um this is one that I do believe though so absolutely yeah all right uh moving on to the the next one here on tier one Harwin strong is the father of our nearest children out of everything that comes out of these conspiracies from season one house of the Dragon I think this has to be one of the most obvious ones that's most likely to be true and House of the Dragon season one we get all but exact confirmation that Harwin strong and raniera have been romantically involved with Lenor marrying out of Duty it is not a reach to believe Vernier looked Elsewhere for certain types of satisfaction in episode 6 we see some very intimate and emotional moments before Harwin is sent off to harrenhal ultimately to his demise and it's all due to the facts that there are rumors swirling around the red keep about rhaenira and Harwin even outside of the obvious displays of affection that we see between Rainier and Harlan the biggest clue to this being true is the Striking resemblance that all of vernier's children happen to have with Harwin and the strong family in general dark hair light skin which is pretty much the polar opposite of Lenor who is her proper husband while this all seems you know obvious and confirmed it's not totally told to us to be 100 factual so it earns a place here in you know in the crowd of all the theories that we're doing here on this ice Iceberg but if I was a betting man I would put the house on this Theory being true yeah and you know this one is one that's like well we watched the show it seems pretty obvious but if you actually go back and you dive into the books it's never it's sort of very Loosely alluded to it's never they actually confirmed it far more in the show than they did in the books however I will say there is a little bit of questioning uh and we'll get to possibly another theory later as we move into another step down the iceberg uh that maybe all of renera's kids are not Harwin strongs could be some could be none could be uh you know maybe maybe two of them so take that uh for what you will but yes this one certainly seems obvious seems even more likely that there's if they're not hard one strongs they're very much not Valerian that they're not actually Valerian blood you go read the books it's it's it was just sort of like alluded well they were close and that's kind of it yeah and and a lot of stuff on this Iceberg deals with parentage especially the top tiers because there's so many questions I mean it's more confusing than Peter Baelish brothel birthing center of who the father is of some of these children and we're gonna have to uh to get to the bottom of it but you did allude to the fact that this might not be this Theory might clash with one that we have a little bit further down on the iceberg I think we'll probably get to that one in possibly part two and art and we might get to it today it's in part two yeah today yeah and we're gonna move right along to the final entry here on the tier one of the iceberg lemon gate Easter egg Theory confirmed possibly for many years fans have speculated about Daenerys targaryen's childhood and her Recollections from those days there seemed to have been consistencies and divisions that Danny has the main one being that growing up in Bravos and seeing a lemon tree is not something that tracks lemon trees are not native to braavos which has led many to theorize that Danny was in fact not in braavos during this time of her childhood fuel was definitely added to the fire when George RR Martin alluded to this being the case when answering a Fan's question many years ago the question from the fan went as so Danny remembers elementary outside the house with a red door in braavos but citrus trees shouldn't really grow in bravos's cold foggy climate is this difference significant does a point to Future Revelations about Danny's past Georgia RR Martin always being Sly answered like this very perceptive of you yes it does point to well that would be telling George leaves it very ambiguous but gives us enough breadcrumbs to send us all into Theory mode and the fandom did just that and while we don't have an answer to the questions that are posed by this Theory we do have an Easter egg from House of the Dragon season one that gives a nod to this theory of lemon gate Laris and Allison are talking in episode 5 of House of the Dragon near the site of the weirwood tree lyrics begins to talk about how a native plant from Bravo shouldn't be able to grow in King's Landing claiming it is an outsider among the natives Laris is clearly playing to Allison's feelings of loneliness and seclusion but the more important piece is that while they are having this conversation an image is seen in the background just over lyrics's shoulder that shows yes you guessed it a lemon tree front and center Ryan Condell is a huge fan of the source material and also theories from this fandom so one has to assume this was intentionally placed and worded to give us all something to go in and Rave about Ryan Condell is a huge nerd just like I us confirmed the idea that Danny is actually raised in Dorne not necessarily over in essos or obviously she goes to essos at some point and she would be there when she's very young I don't know I've I've always been sort of on the fence about this one and it's one of those that I think will ultimately get enough information in Winds of Winter should or if it ever comes out to see if Danny does make allegiances or alliances with Dorne which I think is going I think Doran is going to reach out even further to her check my aegon's crown where is aegon's Crown and where is blackfyre theories I've talked about a little bit as well to get more information on that you know unfortunately Game of Thrones the show The First Time the show ever really dipped was when they sort of introduced some of the Dorne arcs that they were going to go down and they just completely ran away from it so it's you you know who knows how that would have progressed had the door and angle been just as good as everything else nonetheless the nod it is certainly a nod to that theory in House of the Dragon without question yeah and the first time I watched the scene whenever Laris is talking about this Bravo sea plant sitting there growing in King's Landing out of its element I immediately thought of lemon gate but I didn't actually see the picture of the lemon tree behind Laris until the next day when I rewatched it you know I always just look for other things right other details when we're covering the show and seeing that Elementary I was like oh my God there's no way that this is a coincidence and I'll put on my tin foil hat and just say hey Ryan Condell knows some answers to some of the things that we asked questions about supposedly he knows the ending of Duncan egg now that is something he mentioned in an interview and I always just wonder with Winds of Winter always being so much closer every day hopefully to coming out is Ryan Condell trying to stir up a little something for the fans to get to talk about and maybe we'll see some answers in Winds of Winter I just if anything you know this is a great nod and a fantastic Easter egg and and instills a lot of confidence in me that there's the right nerd making this show I agreed okay well now let's dive into tier two of the iceberg a little darker a little more a little more crazy right so Eamonn is the father of Helena targaryen's children is Eamonn the father of Helena targaryen's children and House of the Dragon we see Eamon not only say he would perform his duty when talking about marrying his sister he is also shown to come out of her room he gives Jace a very Discerning look when he dances with her in episode 8 and he stands by her side in many scenes including the Beast beneath the boards it would also have huge implications and significance For an upcoming part in books and season 2 called blood and cheese where Damon hires an assassin to kill one of Helena's children as a response to Luke's death if these are now eamon's kids it has far more weight and significance since he will be the one viewed as killing luceris also making him a kin Slayer this one is very interesting and I am leaning towards believing the show is going to make Eamon the father of those children I I just think that enough was sprinkled in earlier even when their kids like really young I think that this might be the way that they're going to go and it would definitely add a lot more drama to blood and cheese no doubt yeah another thing uh you need to think we need to think about too is that the books when talking it talks a little bit about aegon being kind of promiscuous right and there is some favoritism from Eamonn possibly towards Helena but the show went far further with aegon making him almost feel like Robert Baratheon right out there just chasing brothels and serving maids and all of those all of those things as opposed to his wife well to me it added a lot more credibility to it simply because we see aegon's not interested at all in her and Eamonn clearly is then you add in the idea of now it's possibly his children it just adds so much more drama so much more weight and it goes in a very long line of this sort of undercurrent in-house Targaryen if you begin really diving into the tree there's actually potentially bastards that go on to be very significant players from start to finish and the Targaryen Dynasty it also in theory since they're not married would make rhaenyra kind of the real true winner of the dance of the Dragons because one of the things that happens is Rainier's son aegon III marries Helena's daughter and then that as the as the final pack to sort of rejoin House Targaryen well Eamon if Rainier's daughter whose name I'm blanking on is now a bastard then you know you can kind of say well she's not even a real true Targaryen because at the end you kind of view it as well they both win in a way because their kids get married and then the throne is restored but now it's almost like well no it's really only renira that wins and you know it's not blood it's the name right that's what we're told in the show um I think the only the you know the evidence against this would be the fact that a lot of people feel like it does not track with Helena's character in the show she doesn't seem like someone that would have an affair but I also don't believe that she's a character that seems like she wouldn't be interested in maybe actually feeling love which I think Eamon is probably one to provide that it's not a surprise if they would end up together to me because I feel like they're both slightly misunderstood uh Helena probably way more so than Eamon but Eamon clearly has a more emotional side and he's seen as most people post season one he will be seen as a psychopath I could see them bonding through that and maybe they have already bonded before this right hand and who else and who also doesn't know know the way aegon goes aegon might know and not care he didn't even want the crown in the show right he said right Eamon said I'll take it and he's like well hey that's not a bad idea and then uh crispy Cole ruined it doesn't he say something along the lines of like oh how do you know against like I wouldn't want to marry her and eamon's like well I would I would perform my duty did I I don't know if he said it or I'll have to go back and look but it's all I almost the vibe he gave was like well you can have her well okay I guess I will that was kind of the bottom I got as well kind of like well whatever it's not it's not my preferred play thing so uh I think this theory has some weight to it and I especially think in the show that this could end up being confirmed uh in future season so this one is good and you know we're still in the believable phase because once we get down to tier three and four I'm telling you guys it's just it's unbelievable it's outlandish yes okay all right well let's move on to another one that is going to clash with uh another theory we had earlier so Kristen Cole is the father of joserus valerian while the realm Whispers or in the case of House of the Dragon publicly states that Harwin strong is the father of Ramirez children one Theory suggests that her firstborn could be the son of Kristen Cole given how important hair color and style has been used throughout the series to determine who is the father of many children's in A Song of Ice and Fire this Theory looks at how jacaris's hair while black like harwin's isn't as curly as his brother Luke's while we also see that rhaenyra does sleep with Kristen and when found out is given Moon tea otherwise known as westrosy Plan B to drink it but we never see her actually drink it in the episode so is it possible that jacaris Valerian is actually the son of Kristen Cole when he asks her you know am I you know you're you're is he my father she says you are a Targaryen this one is fun uh for the same reason that the last one is is because man would that add a lot more drama to this entire Civil War it would make it a lot more messy uh this one I'm not as sold on as the last one which is why we put it after I think I think this one is a little bit more because we're going really off of timing hairstyle but in theory I think it's possible I know in the books it doesn't line up Time timeline wise but the timeline has been uh changed in the show it's not the exact same timeline as far as years go by and whatnot so I I would love for someone to be able to disprove this if they could figure out the show's exact timeline from episode to episode yeah I think it's true in the show yeah this you like this one this is your this is one of your favorite theories right well well because there's because there's so much going for it one the hairstyle the casting in this show has been very specific and very good right I mean like Olivia Cook and you look at Emily Carey and then you have Emma Darcy and milioca the hair the makeup everything just their facial features they're so similar to the young and old versions and then Luke has very curly hair just like Harwin strong I mean Harwin Strong's hair is like kit harington's I mean it's like they got a curling iron out there you know while they're while they're out there training it's ridiculous it's just so it's just so so and then you know Kristin Cole's got this very like nice straight hair style and if you look if you look at him next to jacaris uh Valerian they're they their hair looks like identical it's not just the hair color sometimes it's the hair style it's one of the reasons that people think that mirror Reed given that she's born in the same year as Jon Snow and that she goes back to Helen Reed when Ned Stark takes Jon Snow back to Winterfell and it was Holland reads the whole reason we got out of the tower Joy alive it's one of the big reasons everyone thinks that she could be John's Twin because the hair is it's this long black curly hair as well so it's not just the hair color color but the fact that she doesn't we the it's left open the the T right for a couple of reasons one if she drinks it then she kind of admits that she did yeah if she doesn't drink it and we have no idea whether she did or not if she doesn't drink it then she could say well I don't have to drink it because I didn't do anything wrong that also means that she doesn't drink it and going down the route of saying I didn't do anything wrong then she could be pregnant and who would that be with well that would be with you know Kristen Cole and that and then you know the timeline could in theory work up and then when asked she says you're a Targaryen yeah because he asked if Harwin is his father now that leaves it open too because the idea is well you're a Targaryen you're my you're my son that's like all you need to know well you know you know Ned Stark says you have Stark blood you have my blood right just saying man there's some similarities hey and you know what this is one of those unless of it's proven it won't be disproven in the show because they wouldn't they wouldn't backtrack to talk about it if it's not if it's not true right so in theory I mean it's kind of head Canon at this point so even if they never disprove it in the future seasons of the show you could watch the show with this headcanon in mind and it kind of makes it different like it's a whole different experience if you think about it like that yeah I think it's fun and I think it's just the it's the way they leave some of these things open to interpretations like well this was left open so it opens the possibility for all these other things and then this was left open so it also opens up the possibility yeah yeah it's definitely one of the more fun ones here on the iceberg and I I wonder if we'll get any confirmation I wonder if that will come to play Down the Line yeah you never know never know I guess uh I guess that puts us here to our last entry here on tier two and the ending of the first part of our Iceberg series and this one is one of my favorites viserys Trent the dinner scene in episode 8. this theory is one that I love and is really up for your interpretation as the viewer this theory states that the dinner scene in episode 8 of House of the Dragon was a fevered illusion or dream From viserys's perspective at first I said pretty much absolutely no way this could be true but the more I thought about it the more I realized just how crazy it is that both sides at this dinner are getting along so well they're smiling they're joking They're laughing and Otto Hightower seems to be wildly out of character as he's making faces and funny noises towards Allison and it's sending her into a fit of Giggles it's a really wonderful scene but the suspicion begins whenever you believe that if these are real events they stopped happening as soon as King viserys was led out from the dinner to go to his bed Chambers for him falling ill obviously this is where Eamon delivers the strong line that results in the dinner becoming a complete disaster so one has to ask is that just simple timing or was this just very saris's mental state declining in his own wishes becoming his distorted experience in this reality or did the black and greens truly put aside their Feud for a loving warm dinner for viserys but really it's up for us and for you to decide yeah I think that he wasn't dreaming it I think it actually happened okay um because I think it makes it even more sort of significant to viserys being the glue that was holding everything together I do really love the idea though of it possibly not being as good as with Sarah's thought and it's this kind of dream he's having especially because then he thinks he's talking to her Nera later and he's not yes yeah so there's definitely a lot of validity to the idea that it was this fever dream or you know whatever fever dream or he's just delusional and gone but yeah ultimately I I have to go against this one just because I think the significance of the story is that as soon as he leaves it all breaks down yeah I think thematically for viserys the character I think it is more important for this not to be an illusion but I think from a directing perspective and a character perspective it would be a really cool decision if this was an illusion in the shots in that scene were very sporadic and they cut a bunch of Quick Cuts to different people acting you know very happy and putting aside this Petty Feud so I like both instances a lot I would tend to lean towards the side of thinking that it is most likely not an illusion because I think as showrunners they're probably more concerned with viserys's you know value to the family especially this being his last episode rather than showing him in a fevered state I think gay would probably have made it a little bit more obvious but who knows maybe it's more of that really subtle storytelling that Miguel and Ryan Condell have done in the past uh I like this a lot just because it plays with the idea of perspective though so it's this is a really good entry bran is watching through the Weir woods and Game of Thrones Bran Stark gains the ability to see and influence past events through the use of weirwood trees we see him look back to Jon Snow's birth at the tower of Joy he sees other events like his father and his aunt as younger children playing and he even walks into Hodor creating one of the saddest moments in the entire Series in the books the theory goes much further suggesting that bran has influenced many events including the Mad Kings burned them all line or perhaps his entire descent into madness just about anyone named Bran fans have speculated that that could actually be Bran Stark like Moran the Builder who helped build the wall in the entire series could even end in some sort of major time traveling reset or that brand is just simply involved in just about any major moment in the series with his ability to go back in time through the weirwood trees in House of the Dragon many important scenes take place in front of a weirwood tree leading many fans to speculate if Bran or perhaps another three-eyed Raven or Crow if you're reading the books is watching these events it's so I think we even said this all throughout season one why are they talking from the werewolf why is there were wooden King's Landing that does that's not book Canon it shouldn't be there but for the show Canon I think that they might be hinting at some further connection whether it be bloodraven whether it be bran I think that this this has some legs I think that the idea that maybe bran is watching this history unfold I'm not saying I'm all in but I'm just saying maybe there's two ways to kind of to kind of view it I guess in the books some of the events bran sees which we don't really get a lot like so early on he just has these sort of Raven dreams which are interflow or Crow dreams which are influenced by bloodraven the three-eyed Crow and then later bran gets to the cave and he sort of has some Visions but it's very fast and it's hard to tell exactly what's going on in the show he doesn't necessarily have to be in front of a weirwood tree to see things like he goes and he sees the Tower of joy and he goes and he sees some of these other things but it's just sort of I guess a common belief or or people are watching through the weirwood trees perhaps it's easier to look at something through a weirwood tree it's never really been sort of fully established but so often many people think they hear Whispers or sounds or they feel like the weirwood is watching them perhaps the weirwood tree itself is able is alive and conscious and is able to watch and it's just and it's presenting information to the three-eyed Raven or Crow depending on you know show our book yeah the weirwood network the internet of Westeros um and you know in Theon and advanced dragons is near the werewood in Winterfell and he swears that he hears voices and you have like the ghost of winter you have all these things um and they all kind of sent her at least somewhat around a werewood so I think that this is a really cool Theory I like this one quite a bit and I would be okay if this is something that you know a show only who knows maybe House of the dragon at the end curtain it zooms out and Brands just walk you know what I mean like who knows and we're not done yet with the werewolves yeah I mean so one so one of the scenes is renera and Allison talking when they're younger yes right many of them yeah many of their conversations take place in front of the weirwood and it's just interesting to sort of point out that we still don't really know in all honesty because we haven't gotten it far enough into it uh into the books what role the weirwoods are going to play in sort of the end game but I believe it's going to be something rather significant you know the Isle of faces this island is said to contain right a bunch of bunch of weirwood trees and that people go there they don't they don't come back and that's one of that's that's one of the big events in House of the Dragon uh and again you know one of the big battles ends at the God's eye some people think hey maybe Damon survives that battle and he's he goes to the Isle of faces yeah the other faces remains one of the biggest question marks in all of Game of Thrones in A Song of Ice and Fire and these theories that play with that are uh they're fun I think that they're really interesting and worth our time to consider because that is something I I do believe at least in the books if you know we get any future entries will have some sort of answers for it okay all right Jimmy all right moving down the iceberg this one here is completely ridiculous all right another entry for the tier three iceberg is messaria is Melisandre or quaith masaria has been somewhat of a mystery thus far in house the dragon in his right for speculation as she seems to be one of one of those who keeps and shares many Secrets this has caused some fans to speculate that there must be more to this mysterious woman than a just a terrible accent another character from Game of Thrones show that was also the center of a lot of theories and speculation was Melisandre the Red Witch with massaria so close to these major historical events some have claimed this could be very young Melisandre affecting the course of history in Westeros even having someone of a similar backstory to masaria this seems highly unlikely but what is even more unlikely is to take it even a step further that the ever Elusive and in the show completely forgotten about quaith could be misari as well this claim seems to have way less evidence towards it than the melisandra part but there are multiple people in Reddit and other forms and even on YouTube that I have seen claim that this could be a way for House of the Dragon to tidy up the quaint storyline we have yet to see any reason for this other than why not in my opinion and I think it's very likely that neither of these are true the Melisandre theory part of this theory is a lot more interesting and I could see them wanting to link the two shows but I think it's most likely that massari is simply just the White Worm what do you think yeah I would have to say it's more likely that she if she is one of those two it's more likely that she is quaith than it is that she's Melisandre you think so I do I I if she is I'm not saying I don't think she's actually either of them um yeah but that one's a little ridiculous yeah yeah now that's not to say that uh Missouri couldn't go on to be somebody uh different or important or a character maybe we don't even know about exists exists yeah and I do think hopefully that season two will sort of expand on messaria as that sort of Melisandre type side mystical uh character right now she's really I they're out there going with her as this sort of like varus character or Littlefinger um character but who knows maybe she is dabbling a little bit more into the dark arts uh if you uh right if you will so I think the likelihood of her being Melisandre is quite unlikely because I think Melisandre probably when she was younger looks like the character she looks like in the books and the show I think that's probably that's that that like whatever whatever melisandre's presenting herself at that's probably what she looks like yeah uh one of the reasons why some people pointed the Melisandre for messaria though is because the last thing we see in the starting season one of the house so the dragon is that the building is lit on fire and you know we kind of assume she's dead nobody no case I don't know if I believe that um and knowing what we know from Fire and Blood but some people said hey the way she could survive the fire is that she looks into the flame she looks into the [ __ ] she's a red witch let's go you know I mean guys we know that this is preposterous but it's kind of fun it's the iceberg it gets deeper and deeper it gets worse it gets worse yeah so if I had if I had to pick of the two the idea of her being quave I think makes a little more sense of of the two not again not saying that she is quaith but to have fun to certainly have fun with it I think the idea of her being quaith is far more interesting because Kuwait is somebody who presents some very important information and prophetic information to Daenerys yeah and quaith is somebody who is going to have some sort of a role to play in the final two books uh George Martin has said that like you know we're not really done with her yet uh she will have her role to play in the show they're it's just easy to kind to easy to kind of move on do I think that massaria is the person who would be quite it just would be a really hard sell in the books simply because you would need to like explain who massari is it's a regular Song of Ice and Fire books because you haven't had that right if I do think that she is probably somebody you know like a sheer a sea star you know Blood Ravens Paramore and you can dive into that and make that sort of be uh agent on his behalf or whatever and that quite I do believe quayth's identity will sort of be somewhat revealed we don't have to like have her take off the mask and it's this big huge reveal or anybody right yeah it's uh it's gonna be somebody that's gonna sort of be like okay and we'll understand the reasoning for it I actually kind of liked melisandre's end in the show that she just was like okay we defeated the night King like I'm done now yeah out of all the things that you know we didn't like some characters endings and I could actually go into a big tangent about things that I did like even though there's a lot to dislike that was one of them that I was kind of okay with yeah so yeah I I thought this theory was kind of cool I do think that they would like to tie in Melisandre probably but just because the actress is willing and it does kind of make sense in the timeline that it can make it work but you're right like why would messaria end up being Melisandre and then have someone else play her like the idea would be for them to be the actress you know um yeah but this is one of those Theory the theories on the iceberg there are some on here especially we get beat down deeper they're a little bit more obscure only a couple people mentioning them this one had a lot more traction than I expected a lot of comments on different threads you know saying no I'm telling you it's melisandra and it's like I don't know guys I don't know maybe her bad accent is on purpose Maybe okay awesome okay well I'll move on to my next one and this one's a little uh hot this is a hot take oh man also a little controversial okay just a little Danny didn't burn King's Landing one of the most controversial scenes in the final season of Game of Thrones came in episode 5 of The Bells where Daenerys Targaryen burns down King's Landing many fans felt this went against her overall character Arc in the course of the show and even in the books but given in but given in House of dragon we see a scene in which Eamon Targaryen and lucera's valerians Dragons act against their own wishes it results in the start of the dance of the dragons and lucerus death fans have speculated immediately that perhaps this was what happened in season 8 of Game of Thrones and it wasn't Daenerys that initially wanted to burn King's Landing but her Dragon drogon no drogon after all drogon does burn the Iron Throne after she's killed by Jon no my face hurts from laughing that's ridiculous um they did a likelihood uh so likelihood of that one Jimmy absolutely not I mean we never do see daenerys's POV in the show when she's burning King's like we just see the dragon flying over and from everyone else's perspective so maybe there's a fight you know maybe we're they were you know maybe she's covering up for her child whenever she you know tells John like we'll make them understand with her little like pseudo-hitler psychotic stare um yeah this is absolutely ludicrous well here's let me let me let me attack this one so I don't I obviously do not believe that that drug well I don't know actually hold on let me think about this for a second so one of the things people were saying about the aemond and luceris scene was that even though they were saying like no like you know obey me listen to me that the dragons were actually still acting on their on the writer's sort of intent and so this is one of the things where it seems like because if you you do get this sort of shot of Daenerys before she Burns everything down is that perhaps you know maybe she's thinking about it but drogon is the one that like kicks off [Laughter] this might be my favorite this is my second favorite uh theory of the whole thing of the whole Iceberg this is my second favorite Theory yeah yeah but what do you what do you think about the idea though of the of the Dragons perhaps acting based purely on like having sort of the a true like sort of emotional connection yeah I think it's possible like you know we can't pretend to understand Dragon bonds because the books tell us that we can't so like that's fine but I I think it's very reasonable to imagine that they can pick up on emotions Whenever there is some sort of bond I think we see that a little bit actually with Elena like right before she commits suicide I think that that's a really emotional moment um one of the better scenes actually with the dragons for me in season one so I don't know I think it's definitely possible uh because there are there are moments like on the bridge in Dragonstone where like Damon's standing there and his Dragon then flies over and lands on the other side so the dragon already kind of knows like what to do because that is some sort of emotional bond so if Danny has this with her dragons then perhaps drogon's really the one who burns on King's Landing hey also why does he just burn the Iron Throne at the end so he just hate he just hated it I think Drogan was playing some 4D chess yeah he said see I hate I hate the throne thrown bad pointy chair the pointy chair badge we're gonna get some mean comments serious yeah we're gonna get some hate mail for that one I think not as much as Dan and Dave got for people hating the uh daenerys's Arc there at the end I mean if anything uh we can maybe this is how I can go does that if that if that happened does that does that help daenerys's case or does it just make season eight that much worse honestly I think it makes it better because I don't know if I could get much worse in that regard not gonna be We're not gonna go on a big season anything but I just want to say that there are some parts of season eight I enjoyed oh I still say I love the first three episodes yeah there's some stuff I really enjoy about that and maybe maybe we'll do a uh you know a flashback episode where we can kind of talk about what we like because me and you have never discussed on the podcast those things but honest the god I'm going to use this as headcanon now even though I don't see the night King didn't want to burn down the wall viserion did it I blame the dragons I blame the dragon people were good well see one one of the other things is um viserys talks about how he's like no we don't control the dragons and we don't really think you know it works foolish for thinking we actually control them that's right see Danny didn't control Drogo and drogon said I'm gonna burn all these mothers up and with this we have for now just qualm a lot of the distaste that people have grown to have for season eight season eight we fixed it so thanks HBO I think there we go Jack all right we'll move on this one is uh interesting it is I don't know if it's as ridiculous as the Danny didn't burn King's Landing but here we go Laris is a Warg and possibly a green Seer Laris is a very ignomatic character who not only Harbors the ability to get things done in the shadows but also to do extreme acts of brutality his wealth of intimate knowledge of those around the red keep enables him to be a very effective player in the Game of Thrones specifically for Allison while him being club-footed and therefore ignored Invisible by many of the noble people at court could be used as a justification for his ability to listen closely to private conversations there are further explanations more Fantastical explanations as well some people believe that simply overhearing some key conversations would not lead to all of the intimate knowledge that lares possesses about key people in the red keep some have even linked his ability to manipulate people to Legendary figure in Westeros bloodraven could Laris be a green Seer like blood Raven and to take it one step further could Laris also possess the power of war game this Theory stems from the fact that Larissa's wealth of knowledge but also imagery of what was extremely prevalent in House of the Dragon season 1 which was rats running all over the red keep in many many key scenes we see Rats infesting the dragon's skull infesting the blood-ridden floors after the brutal Beatdown that we see Kristen Cole deal out is Varys working into the rats in the castle and spying this way is he seeing conversations that he should not be seeing by using these rats that are all over the red keep or is he working with a more human-like network of spies akin to Varys from Game of Thrones either way Laris is one to keep our eye on as we move forward and House of the Dragon for sure I think this one has some validity to it I don't hate it um there's nothing in the strong family line that would tip us to believe that he should have green dreams but we don't really know what that much about the strong Line This is the end of it yeah he kind of he thins it out a little bit doesn't he uh I don't know man I I like this one I think it's harmless by the way like I think that this this will never be confirmed in the show I don't I don't think I might be wrong um which we have some more layers theories coming that are way more ridiculous than this but but this one's harmless in the fact that like if this is never confirmed or denied by the show we could believe it and it doesn't change much you know what I mean so this one's kind of cool definitely takes a step further with the warging like even a green sear it's like okay well maybe like he he's seeing things and he knows positions to be in for the future but working into the rats would be like a whole nother level and more akin to Brand than bloodraven you know because Brandon was a green sealer and a work whereas bloodraven was just a green Seer so this would make Laris one of the more powerful people ever in Westeros history if it were true it would explain a lot you know I mean there's there's a kind of ridiculous theory in and it's actually more ridiculous than than this one that Varys is a merman and it talks about the idea that Varys is able to sort of like swim across the narrow sea and that's how he can like he knows so why everything everything that's going on over in essos because he could just go back and forth it's pretty ridiculous but a fun one this one actually sort of makes a lot of sense I mean warging is something that's very not very common but it's in the in the series the main series like well it's kind of comment all the stark children can do it some of the wildlings can do it we don't know really anything about the how strong because lyrics is the end of it uh he's he's the he's the end of the the how strong line and you know they're just sort of there and in the books really you know again it's a sort of rough outline so we don't know so I think it actually would make a lot of sense if he were a work and I think it'd actually be pretty cool yeah I think it would be neat and the the rats were a a very good piece of symbolism of like things like you know being messy in the red key but also like eating within the Beast beneath the doors a lot of people thought the Beast beneath the forest before we saw what it was was the rats like a lot of people thought that that's what she uh what she meant Helena whenever she said that so you know the rats could just be symbolism but maybe it's more than that like maybe there's a reason why we're seeing them and I know me and you mentioned it after every single episode like what's up with the rats like there has to be something more and this is a very interesting this is an interesting justification not just for that symbolism but I've seen a lot of people love you the criticism that they felt like Laris hasn't really been given enough context meaning that like he just seems evil for Evil's sake like killing his entire family which is a massive deal in Westeros uh he kind of just does it and we don't really know other than maybe just some ambition but like what is that ambition maybe him being a green Seer would give him foresight to know that the events need to play out this way and that's why he's so willing to go ahead and do these things also I mean it could be the fact that he's club-footed and has probably been looked down upon and he's not the strongest of the of the bunch you know compared to Harwin and so I mean there's definitely some natural like Bridges we can build to get to these assumptions of why he did what he did but it is interesting and fun to look at the Fantastical elements of it as well and say well maybe he knows something we don't and he also seems like he kind of comes out of nowhere yeah uh like in the show just seems like whoa he just came in front of a werewood i this is one actually that I I could see and it would be kind of cool because the books because the books are told to us through mushroom and you know maester so then it's like okay so it would make sense that they would not know that he's a work but the show could totally do it then it'll also make him seem a lot more powerful and evil as a villain yeah and I think it would it wouldn't be bad to give a little bit more Nuance to him of like why he's doing what he's doing other than just the fact that he happens to be a disabled person and right it's like like that is pretty two-dimensional right like we should be able to do a little bit more of that um we should we should we should be able to get some more and we have time so we'll see what happens uh he's certainly got a role to play in the future of House of the dragon and who knows maybe he'll be worgen into a dragon I don't know yeah uh here we go so today is tier four we're in the darkest here okay these are the wildest theories going around on the internet for a house of the Dragon so I'm gonna start here and this one I almost thought should have been this is the one I sort of thought might be in my mind was the tier five but then I don't know Jimmy the more I started researching and reading and typing this out this might make some sense okay but we'll let you guys decide Allison becomes Melisandre the dance of the Dragons is one of the most devastating Wars in Westeros history and many of the key players either die in battle or through execution however Alison Hightower is one of the key figures who actually survives the war bur end is a little anticlimactic in the book she just wastes away in a tower locking herself in her room as she Mourns over all of her fallen family members this could be one area that the show changes her death in general could be far more dramatic maybe she dies in execution or by a dragon who knows but it's probably one area the show is actually going to differ then however if they really wanted to connect to the two shows one way could be by making Allison become Melisandre bands have been speculating about this online through Reddit forums and in Twitter and in some ways I think it makes some sense no one would have predicted the route that they are going with aegon's Prophecy Before seeing House of the dragon or Alison's personality in general in the books she's comes across as far more devious and evil here she seems a little more innocent and even naive but she may become obsessed with the Song of Ice and Fire and she could perhaps fake her death and continue trying to fill this prophecy by any means necessary you've lost your mind you've lost your mind and you know I thought I knew you I thought I knew you I thought we were on the same page I mean come on hold on a second does it make more sense because the tear above was perhaps massaria becomes Melisandre or quave I think we may need to flip him around because I think this one I think to be I think this one you know what I do like about this theory is that it is cashing in on Allison being so Pious in season one uh and then feeling like maybe her prayers were answered by the old gods and then she becomes faithful to uh relore and maybe in a future season and again I'm just kind of playing along here but like let's say maybe in a future season a red priest or Priestess shows up and starts to work on her and as she's seeing you know her family die all around her maybe she has a change of heart and she sees that the Lord of enlight is the true way and then she hears about Azor ahai and you know what maybe maybe folks maybe maybe Allison is lightbringer okay did or did stabbed raniera or she cut reniro with with the dagger that contains the prophecy okay oh my God it's ludicrous [Laughter] oh I mean the idea of her being obsessed with the prophecy is something that in my I know one never thought they were going to go that route in the show ever I mean we never assumed that and then it's she hears it and it's become this huge part of yeah of you know of Westeros history now yeah it is and and it's it's also somewhere you know this would obviously be a departure from the books but it is one that they could do and it still makes sense in the show Canon um you know I think people will have a problem with it but it is possible I think that is right maybe not likely but the show Canon this could work obviously for the books this is off the table um but you're right her ending in the books is while very melancholy is very anticlimactic and it is I don't see a way forward with the future seasons of her fading to the background like I just don't see that happening with Olivia Cook and it she's there's too much investment from the audience at this point right yeah I mean essentially you know if you begin to look at towards the end of the series and you're and you start thinking about well what would the final season what would the final episode of House of the Dragon be right I mean you think probably it's gonna be hour of the wolf it's going to include a coronation of aegon the third so what's Allison do she's just sitting in a tower all by herself and that's Gee willikers right like that's like that's that's it I mean it I just don't know you'd have to zoom ahead for her to die so unless it's just her sitting there all alone right which I mean I do think like in the books that is like actually a really like traumatic right like I think that that it's a terrible reality to be locked away in a tower it does kind of call back uh you know it's a little bit too rhaenyra talking about how she didn't want to be someone just locked away in a tower giving birth to children right like that you know that was a really important line in season one because that's actually exactly what happens to rear Nera in her last episode she is a locked away in a tower while you know uh Damon's basically running her um Her counsel and she's giving birth so like I think there's a lot of weight to that statement so it could play into the idea that Allison just ends up rotting away in a tower but uh I don't know if people would love that ending so I think of anything we could take from this theory if we want to be uh you know a little less crazy would definitely be the fact that I think there's going to be a change to her Arc um definitely but I do like I do like the idea of this Theory uh mainly because it could work with uh how old milisandre has talked about to be in the show right and it does cash in on again on the piety of Allison right so more likely scenario of the two theories that we have placed into this Iceberg again these are not we did not sit here and say these are what we believe these are like things that were trending on Reddit and Twitter that we pulled to sort of some of these are from include in here in collider like major media Outlets have put this stuff up spin the page so we do just like more likely that Melisandre is Allison or more likely that this one we have to run a YouTube poll more likely that Melisandre would be Allison or or masaria I think messaria's character probably needs more you know what I'm saying like she in her background is mysterious and how has she had this much influence um I don't think either likely but more likely it might like I don't know man like Allison doesn't look anything like Melisandre either though I guess we use masaria though so and I see I think I'm flipped now I think I think it's important it's just because we've yet to have anything that's specifically ties massaria it's like so at least with Allison at least with Allison you have there's two parts where it's to me it's like okay again I'm not saying this is this is the case but I see I have two clear indicators that sort of make more sense to me than messaria one is the the potential for it a real Obsession of The Song of Ice and Fire yes she learns the secret she believes it's going to be true and she'll do go by whatever means necessary two the end of her life in the books and most likely in the show there's really nothing for her to do so this gives her like a path forward so that's where I'm like okay again I don't think either are true but if I had to sort of pick one messarias is just that she's foreign I mean I mean it's just like okay well I guess you know I mean it's like why not it's a why not whereas some legitimate tie to potentially the Lord of Light and defeating the White Walkers and the evil and yes okay so here's my here's a question let's just pretend that Allison is Melisandre or because we should say not we shouldn't say is becomes milisandre as it's stated in the iceberg um how do you do that on screen you know what I mean right yeah I don't know that I don't know how you would you leave it open-ended and her exit from the show is like sailing across the narrow sea to like with a priestess who has come and then like we just assume like whoa is that melisson is that her you know like I don't know the problem is that the the actress who plays Melisandre has specific what's a van how I forget her first uh Catherine something like fan something or other yeah she uh she specifically said she wants to be in House of the Dragon I mean he actually probably wants that sweet paycheck uh Karis van Hooten van Hooten yeah uh yeah I mean she actually would make sense it really it actually makes more sense that she would meet Allison it's just that also she specifically has held like the dagger that Arya uses to kill the night King and Melisandre is the one who sort of gives Arya the final prep top to go kill the night King with the dagger that Alice has used I mean and it's specifically tied to the Song of Ice and Fire listen I'm not saying it's impossible man people would be so mad it would melt the internet if you think people are upset about Daenerys that sees name people would lose their minds in this you know what I'm all for it sounds great chaos let's go foreign it also makes more sense that old Melisandre that we see without her you know glamor would be Allison then yeah for sure ridiculous absolutely absolutely all of all the ones we have today are ridiculous I want to know the next one I have is pretty legit too but we'll go back and forth so uh Jimmy you may have to you may have to do because our next two sort of go hand in hand so you may have to do your your final one okay I will do what I think is the most ridiculous I think this is period period I guess even no matter what way we stack them it's going to be back to back huh yeah yeah maybe we should save that one well okay well maybe I'll just do okay maybe I'll maybe I'll just go next and then you could then yeah and then you can do it and then we'll yeah so I'll just I'll go next and then we can okay cool okay we'll do actually it actually it gets D it gets deeper yeah the way it goes it actually gets deeper okay Damon is blood Raven in Game of Thrones in Game of Thrones we see Bran Stark influenced through dreams of the three-eyed Raven a character who has the ability to see into past events through the power of weirwood trees we really get no explanation to his backstory or how he came to obtain this ability in the books the character is known as the three-eyed Crow and is Brendan Rivers a Targaryen bastard of King aegon IV also known as bloodraven bloodraven is a practicer of dark arts serves as hand of the king and has a vast spy Network before he's sent to the wall for committing a war crime he quickly becomes Lord commander of the Night's Watch but disappears mysteriously for decades until we see him in the main book series this is an area where the show could make a rather large change and perhaps make this character Damon Targaryen while accounts of the end of the dance the dragons makes it seem as if Damon dies in battle with aemond in a dragon vs Dragon combat above the god Damon's body is never found leading to speculation that he somehow survives the battle given the proximity to the God's eye itself and speculation to what is actually on the island the connection to Weir woods and possibly Children of the forest it's possible in the show Damon not bloodraven could be taken by the children of the forest to serve as the three-eyed Raven all right listen I I mocked you and I said that we lost you I might buy this one I think I I I could it would be a very I I could see it like the old it's three really well yes so first of all I guess we need to talk there's a little there's so many things we need to break down in this one good move or bad move in Game of Thrones of not explaining further who the three-eyed Raven was well bad in the sense that uh they should have done it right okay in the fact that like maybe this ties in later this is also something they could inspect in like dunk the Duncan egg show if they do that like that exactly where they could tie it in like I think that's a lot more logical than this Theory but leaving it ambiguous definitely leaves it open for the show Canon which that's all we're talking about folks is showcase exactly yeah exactly like all these but the show could now use that if they wanted to possibly they could and it would it would connect them yeah it's what's interesting is that you know in the show the three-eyed Raven well for starters it's one of those other things where you see the three-eyed Raven once right and he is a totally different actor and stuff like that then they cut back to him and he's got a shaved head I don't know how that works but you know whatever uh and they didn't really explain it further in the books it's the character is so much more important so much bigger and the fact that it's blood Raven is such a big deal and again we probably have a lot of new listeners today um and you know just in general if if you're somebody who I know we have a lot of a lot of our listeners in general are show Watchers only so you're like I don't know who this character is right I mean you know who the thread Raven is but you're unfamiliar with say bloodraven very important character I mean very very very important and they didn't touch on they didn't touch on that in the show which I guess is sort of fine because you maybe don't have the time or maybe you don't want to introduce introduce yet another Targaryen and of course even the fact that bloodraven gets to that cave and becomes this character in its own right in the books is still yet to be explained and very significant I do believe in Winds of Winter we will get some more details of that event because it's very important and has a lot of implications for brand going forward but here if you did want to make it Damon there's a lot of reasoning for it and also Damon's death in the books is also incredibly mysterious he when he and Eamon have the big battle over the God's eye Dragon vs Dragon combat we know that Damon either jumps from his dragon or something stabs aiming through the non-i uh and eamon's body is recovered years later Damon's body is never found so we don't know exactly what happens to him some people believe he swims over to shore but it's also by the God's eye a very mysterious island which could in all honesty have like every all the big secrets of A Song of Ice and Fire could take place on this island that's full of weirwood trees and perhaps showed into the forest and if Damon were to say end up over there who knows I also think the possibility one last thing I also think the possibility that even in the books if Damon does survive he could serve as a three-eyed Crow or Raven or you know thread crow in the books before blood Raven because we don't even know who was there before bloodraven was there another person like what's going on in that case [ __ ] okay okay I like I like where you're going with this yeah you're right we don't know what comes before Brennan Rivers uh was there a blood raven like or was it a three Acro before we're in rivers that's a good question to ask probably right um and hopefully we we get those kind of answers in the books I mean I I do think that this is a cool theory in the sense that I don't believe that Damon uh if the body's not found in in fantasy folks it means they're alive everything absolutely every time and a lot of people have speculated that Damon just runs with Nettles some people I've seen some theories say that they think messaria will end up being Nettles like a stand-in for Nettles I've seen some other like uh theories as well but I can't remember exactly who the person was um but regardless I mean I do think that we're going to get the answers of what happens to Damon's body at the end of House of the dragon and while we're still asking what that will be this theory is in play yeah I actually think it's more likely that Damon dies in the show but lives in the books you think yeah it's just his character it's just it's I see it's this is where I could go either way that's another thing like that's another theory we don't even know yet we'll have to come back for another Iceberg you know when as we we get maybe season two because once we have some more information it's just Damon's character so strong and powerful and he's making these decisions it's just it's one of these things it's just like it would be so sort of so fitting to really kill him um in this battle but if you do go this route then it has potentially huge implications to tie into Game of Thrones and potentially going further yeah definitely I mean because look you know it's one of these other questions when Damon chokes renera is he he's he's part of him is very upset that um you know that viserys told her this thing this secret this this sort of like air like that's really what it was more about like hold on he actually did choose you sort of as an heir over me he told you the secret he's my brother but I wonder if Damon will begin to like question her at some point like what is the significance of this and I could see Damon thinking of himself as this like true savior of Westeros yeah I could see that I also can see the idea of him wanting to get away from it all uh and the fact that like one of the things that's been most important to Damon throughout this whole process in the show is that he wants to return the targaryens to like their proper place as you know being Superior and he really does care about the Targaryen name in the family and at least what it represents and as he's seeing the dance happen and he's watching everything come crashing down and everyone he knows dying like does he just give up on that at some point and want to go away um maybe it's going to take a lot of character development to get him to that point from what we've seen in season one but we do have a lot of time so uh yeah I don't know uh this is a fun one this is a really fun Theory it is it is outlandish but like I said it's still in play see I see it's it's almost Damon in a way is almost like Stannis where Stannis decides I'm gonna go take on the others right that's the whole reason he goes north of the wall right all right we'll go take him on we'll either we'll go defeat this this Army Melisandre is telling me to be because then it will show Westeros that I am the true king I can see that I can see Damon doing the same thing I see yeah yeah and start going down and start doubting that path yeah it absolutely could happen and maybe it's King's blood Damon has King's blood which maybe that's what the children of the forest need and that could tie him in and maybe that's really the whole deal and it's it's it's maybe not so much green Sears as well you're bucking up against the next Theory my friend I know well let's dive into that one right now now we're gonna dive a different path we're gonna dive a different path but with the same player and that is Damon Damon Targaryen becomes the night King Damon Targaryen is a very distinct looking individual there's no doubt about that and fans have went wild for the portrayal of Damon by Matt Smith in the show and looked under every nook and cranny for a way to connect him with the wider Game of Thrones universe they have really helped on themselves however because there is now speculation in theories claiming Damon is the White Walker King we see in a Game of Thrones television show now I know what you're thinking this is insane and borderline dumb but let's just think about it for just one second the White Walker King has long flowing white golden locks just like Damon and they both sport a pretty nice studded vest however the more compelling piece of this ludicrous theory is that the reason the night King was able to zombify and then ride an ice dragon was due to the fact that the night King and Damon both have magical blood if Damon is the night King he not only has whatever white walkers have in their blood but he also has the Targaryen blood that has been so magical throughout the series White Walker and Targaryen meets in one of the most absurd theories we've had yet you know we covered a similar one right and that viserys was the night King this one is even more ludicrous I mean it's not it's it's even it's even more ridiculous this theory is really bad because it's based on like hair like as if like when they were casting the the White Walker King they said well make sure he has long blonde hair so we can connect it to the house of the dragon that we don't know it's in Pilot you know what I mean like there's just no way I do the thing I like the creative part of this theory that I enjoy even though I think it's hogwash is the fact that how did the night King ride a dragon and how was he able to command the Dragon well of course he's a Targaryen he had Targaryen blood right well I know we just talked about that when we when we did when we did the when we did the viseras well look it just makes it like first of all in the show we see the guy and we talked we talked about the possibility of an unreliable narrator right and we see the guy it's like we see it and then you know it's just ah how could it possibly be how could it possibly be Damon like bloodraven to me make way more sense oh right without a doubt way like way more sense but the night King like the so the children of the forest decide they want to turn him into another he doesn't even die anywhere close like well you know there's where Woods maybe there's children the force of the Gods on you know like God's eye I don't know maybe Maybe probably not I guess I guess it makes that in the idea that the night King is Damon and like wanting Revenge makes far more sense than viserys oh definitely because it just fits Damon's personality a little bit more well another cool thing is like I guess one of the symbols that you could take from this is like if Damon is the night King it is him fulfilling the other side of the prophecy that his brother never told him like there's some cool symbolism in that right like he is the opposing Force um he is so offended that he takes the other side right I think that that's that's kind of a neat way that you could tie it together uh that was not in the theory that I found online however uh you know if I could help them out I'd probably throw that as a bullet point underneath uh this outrageous Theory but yeah I don't know this one's pretty ridiculous I guess in a way he does kind of I'm pulling up pictures now he does sort of look I guess he does look a little little like Damon Damon looks a lot more like the White Walker I think the one that Sam sees yes yes the one and the one that John fights yeah this is the one that uh the theory is actually referring to yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I I just don't know I just I I mean the answer is it's not true that's the answer you know it's like here we always try to make theories work I always try to see it but this one I'm just like could he be a white walker yes like one of the like head Walkers that we saw yeah I could potential I could in theory see that of course that would mean Damon survives his battle with Eamonn goes to the God's eye and the children of the forest do something take him North some and turn him into a white walker just the night King himself hard because the show showed them do something with him it also just makes zero sense but I think that's what these that's what these these deep deep theories are about if if you know what it wasn't for the last theory on this Iceberg I would say it's the most unlikely yes but the but the next one although well I don't know this might be a little more to it let's dive in all right to round off this Iceberg at the very tip of the bottom of this rabbit hole is our final Theory buckle up Laris did Summer Hall the tragedy at summerhall was a fire at summer Hall a pleasure castle of House Targaryen in the dornish marches in 259 AC the conflagration caused the deaths of among others King aegon V Targaryen his eldest son Prince Duncan Targaryen the sir Duncan the tall the Lord commander of the kingsguard the cause of the fire is yet unknown but was connected with King aegon's desire to restore dragons to the Seven Kingdoms the last years of his Reign were consumed by a search for ancient lore about the dragon breeding of valyria and it is said that aegon commissioned Journeys to places as far away as a shy with the hopes of finding texts and knowledge that had not been preserved in Westeros in 259 AC aegon summoned many of those closest to him to summerhall to celebrate the impending birth of his first great-grandchild to Aries and raelia the children of aegon's Heir Prince jaharis many died and fire destroyed the castle leaving it a ruin according to bariston selmy sorcery was even involved now this is where it gets crazy tons of theories have sprouted from summerhall's tragedy but none more Sensational than the theory that Lara strong is responsible for the tragedy at summerhall the idea that Laris is a work in using rats around the red keep has spiraled into people believing that he might also be connected to the werewood network by the end of the House of the Dragon television show his signature murder plot for his own family using fire and then attempting a hit on messaria by burning down her buildings are consistent with the fire tragedy at summerhall could it be at the end of House of the Dragon Laris disdain for the targaryens lead him to entering the werewoods network and being able to travel to the Future in time the opportune time to stop the targaryens from returning to their pre-dance of the Dragon power levels with big youthful capable dragons um you know I was trying to find it uh over here because when we first announced this one and we said it was the most ridiculous thing we'd ever heard I was like I agree 100 but the actor just spoke at that Game of Thrones convention and I'm trying to find the quote but he spoke a little bit about like Laris actually having magic like one of the questions asked and he kind of hinted to the possibility of it he didn't flat out say it of course anyone in a big rant about beat fetish but um so I'm not saying that Laris has any sort of magical abilities but the actor has sort of alluded to the idea that he might now does it have anything to do that he could participate in some event that takes place years later I mean he would literally have to travel like decades centuries yeah in time to get to this point in history and I just don't think so I just I don't see it and also like so we've seen the ability for bran and by the way again we didn't make this up there are people online who believe this is a oh there are yeah there's the lot this one's popular um but you know we've we've seen bran be able to like see back in history and kind of manipulate events like by Whispering into the wind this is straight up embodying you know what I mean now maybe Laris isn't maybe Laris ends up being blood Raven I don't I just don't see how it works I mean we're talking about time traveling with your body going in for like just because Summer Hall is obviously tied to the targaryens and it ends in fire someone was like well Laris used fire twice and he's around the targaryens maybe he takes Allison's pledge like all the way to the future you know it's just so outlandish yeah maybe maybe maybe um feet are his uh you know he he sees his feet and that sort of awakens his magical abilities and he's able to just walk his way into the future maybe well if he can Warg into rats could he Warg into something that could live long enough to cause him to be able to influence the events at summerhall like a warewood tree which by the way still doesn't make any sense because where Woods don't grow indoors right could he now see he could have something to do with see this is where so summer Hall I don't think so I just don't see any way he's involved in summerhawk Herron Hall and it's sort of curse and building and helping to absolutely because Herron Hall is completely accursed location yeah I mean it is cursed and anything can happen absolutely and he's one of the key contributors to something that happens there he may reawaken evil spirits could those Spirits then travel to summer Hall again guys we're stretching it here okay this is the deepest darkest parts of the iceberg I'm straight I'm stretched about as far as it gets I I just don't there's no way there's literally no way and the fact that like someone like posted this online and then multiple people were like you know what I'm in let me think about this for a second what happens to his foot how does we know do you think he tripped over the where wood branch no no no no no at the end he's beheaded by Craig and Stark but he asked for one thing and that's his foot is cut off that way he's like although his head's cut off too so I don't know whatever but he just wants his foot to be destroyed does it say what happens to it I don't think it does did they feed it to one of the werewood faces could the bones of his foot have made it to summerhall hahaha is there a curse that travels with his with his foot the curse of the web toast we've added a deeper portion of the ice regulator but is responsible for a summer haul I'm gonna throw out I'm gonna throw out the I'm calling to the banners here if you're listening and you have any idea how this could work send us a raven send us a raven plug the email address Matt because I forget it right now be taking BTK cast a Gmail hold on a second okay here we go all right it's from Fire and Blood all right and and of course the wiki says um hilarious the strongest corpse was given to the silent sister and years later his bones were taken to harrenhal as his final resting place okay Craig and Stark ordered that the removed foot be buried in a field but the limb disappeared before that could occur as layers of the last of his line his death brought an end to how strong where's the foot Matt what if the foot was buried in the field where summerhall is built oh [Music] because I think summer Hall is pretty new right I'm gonna go check it out you know it's it's the pleasure Paradise right like that's that's the whole idea right summer Hall I mean look up when it's built founded 188 AC so it's founded so before now during house uh yeah yeah it's like 71 years before right before it gets burned down so it exists but who knows where'd the foot go could have been taken to Summer Hall does does anyone know where lyrics's foot ended up that seems significant also what's the deal with the silent sisters and they just what they just carry they just carry bones around Westeros because they have Ned Stark's bones we don't know where they're at yeah in in A Song of Ice and Fire they still lived in Stark's bones they're supposed to be taking them back to Winterfell the silence sisters also referred as the stranger's wives deaths handmaidens and the handmaidens of the stranger are an order of women belonging to the faith of the seven they are sworn to the service of the stranger and have taken vows of Chastity in Silence the silent sisters attend to the dead they are not to be confused with septas hmm yeah doesn't give us much does it it does not but um it's all interesting well that is the end of our Iceberg Jimmy three-parter four tiers three parts we did it are there even deeper darker parts to this iceberg that will occur in the off season as we go into house of dragon yes how's the Dragon season two there's been interviews um there actually was an interview uh with lyrics the actor who plays Laris and he talked about his sort of foot fetish with Allison and why he's doing it and it sort of goes back to what we were talking about with control and things like that but I think we'll get more info I'm about it and they are uh as of our recording I think they're casting they're supposed to be done casting about I think by the end of the new year so and production's supposed to start early 2023 which I I think I'm gonna release this on New Year's uh day so yeah interesting a lot of good stuff came out of this first season I mean a lot of crazy stuff so let's let's just look back at the iceberg here which two of course you could pick one from tier one or something like that but which which theory was your was your favorite or the one you found the most intriguing it doesn't necessarily have to be the one that you believe most but the one that you sort of just wow really cause you to think Wonder um so I really like the Sarah streaming the dinner scene in episode eight because I think that that would be a really creative way of using perspective like I think that's just a really fascinating uh device to use as a Storyteller I think that that would be awesome if it were true um other than that I I mean I like Danny not bringing a King's Landing just because it's hilariously offensive um I'm gonna like it's so it made it makes a lot of people upset and I think that it it's slightly funny uh I think honestly Damon being blood Raven is definitely one that I I don't necessarily think is going to come true but I like it yeah um mine is similar I think the one I really like aymond is the father of the children just because it really at would add a lot of significance to basically House of the Dragons red wedding scene yeah which in all honesty the way I think that I think they could make it even more to me it's even more heartbreaking than the Red Wedding and seriously and of course we're in complete spoiler territory here which we've said at the beginning of the show especially because of now that we've seen Helena Targaryen and she's sort of so sweet and so nice it makes it just wouldn't it's gonna it's gonna make that scene even more sort of heartbreaking because now it'll feel like it was eamonn's fault and it could be really the thing because Eamonn I think still has the sort of love of Damon or something or he sort of admires him and this could be the thing that pushes them over the edge which should make their final battle great and be another thing that will begin to rip Damon and raniera apart yeah because renera this doesn't seem like something she's going to want to do and Damon seems like he's just gonna do it without her consent yeah it's gonna be it's gonna be brutal and I do think that because the characters are more fleshed out in the show than they are in Fire and Blood that it's gonna have even more impact like reading in fire blood you're like that's crazy and it is tense enough in the book to where like I think I I mean I had an emotional reaction to it is a very visceral reaction because it is just a tragic thing to go through for anybody but now that the characters have a lot more behind them it's going to be really emotional for a national audience I think so if you throw this on top of it it makes you even more dramatic and I and we've talked about how they're going to do it and I I still say the way I would do it is I would sort of do like a the camera facing Helena's uh like Helena's eyes yeah right and you say and it just makes it even more gut wrenching I think I think it will be more impactful than the Red Wedding because the Red Wedding was really just all of our favorite characters died and you're just like what it's like a huge shift but it was like you know I mean it makes a lot of sense this is just like downright evil yeah I mean there's just there's just no way around it yeah it's it's pretty ruthless I think the the Red Wedding is very iconic because uh you really hadn't seen anything happen in the fantasy genre to that level and you would even point to television if we go into television like away from the book in television not many shows if any at that point had killed off like you know a third almost like 40 of their cast I mean it was it was crazy I mean for for the main characters um so I do think like the Red Wedding stays extremely notable for its place in history especially in uh in the fantasy genre in books but uh this you don't see coming because it's just it's just uh diabolical there's not there's you know Rob makes a lot of really bad mistakes and when you look at the way it all turns out you you can see how it got there but with blood and cheese it's just one mishap after the next in-house of the Dragon of miscommunications and people saying the wrong thing at the wrong time or being too proud and then this is like an escalation rather than like in the Red Wedding where it's actually almost a de-escalation because it ends the war right this actually makes the war worse in House of the Dragon so it's interesting because there were really pivotal moments in A Song of Ice and Fire lore but they actually are kind of Polar Opposites and what they uh what happens after yeah yeah it's gonna be it's gonna be huge so the other one I sort of had that I find really interesting was bran is watching through the Weir Woods yeah and it's just because whether the real thing is if bran actually does something to influence an event like even you go back to the scene of the Tower of Joy where Ned Stark sort of turns as if he heard something like even something that small means brand still influenced it yeah it does you know so the dag here's my theory is that the dagger ending up in the main show will be a result of an action that bran influences right that's my guess and I don't know if it's going to necessarily be the brand act or popping on going hey you know over there I think it might be yes you see this like wheelchair like pop over the back God damn they didn't have ramps back now back then what the hell Saturday he's just stuck on the steps just yeah um yeah so I think it'll probably be something a little bit less than that it'll be a whisper like you said or some sort of sign message in the fire right before Allison becomes Melisandre uh but I I do think that there has to be some connection the where Woods aren't even supposed to be in King's Landing like that that doesn't make sense for the book Canon so the fact that they were placed there it could just be a prop but it is odd that it's so many pivotal conversations happen right in front of the werewoods they're within the shot it feels like the werewood is going to have some sort of connection with you know bloodraven looking back or a Bran or somebody I don't know if they'll have an on-screen appearance per se but I do think that the where Woods matter I hope they matter actually yes I do I do as well so awesome all right guys well with that thank you guys for hanging out and doing all this big iceberg theories Madness with this yeah so I'm gonna put all these together into a bit so to be part three as well as another podcast where you can listen to just the whole thing uh if you want to go back through and dive into that and then obviously now we're beginning the new year we're going to be diving back into a Storm of Swords and we've got some other fun things coming as well have some guests we're going to be bringing back on a lot of fun and I have a ton of ravens you guys better send us a huge amount of ravens really appreciate it it is so much fun to keep diving into all of those so with that as always thank you for watching thank you for listening and remember that winter is coming

Channel: Bend the Knee

Views: 4,492

Keywords: House of the Dragon Iceberg EXPLAINED, House of the Dragon Iceberg, House of the Dragon Iceberg theories, House of the dragon theories, ASOIAF Iceberg, Iceberg AltShiftX, Iceberg theories game of thrones, House of the Dragon Explained, House of the, The House of the Dragon Iceberg, The House of the Dragon Iceberg Explained, Ultimate House of the Dragon Iceberg, House of the dragon crazy theories, Does Daemon become the Night King?, Is Cristin Cole the Father, Viserys Night King

Id: exrvdGOELzY

Length: 95min 5sec (5705 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 12 2023