The Group - A Documentary

the name of the documentary is called the group so can you explain for somebody who doesn't know what is the group okay um the group is the group is uh it is a group I mean it Wow that's it Wow it's uh just I just want few people an idea you know like what what it is because it's just such a hard thing I agree I got a hard time right hey I still have a hard time I mean but it's really hard to describe to anybody that wasn't there it is a lot easier just to have been a part of it and not explain a family desperate for help for a teenager using drugs and they turn to an organization promising love and caring but instead they find a program based on hatred and intolerance and fear this man is the founder and you may not believe what he has to say so disturbing that we had a sensor it stay here with me don't think about it's warm at home that goes crazy mothers keep their own it seems to fit the criteria of a destructive cult they control behavior information thoughts feelings they try to create an identity that's dependent on the group isolate you from family and friends unless they are members of the group tonight the ABC 15 investigators uncover hours of disturbing videos so you can decide for yourself and survivors who made it out and are telling their stories for the first time remember that video cameras watching everything to stay do like there's bumper stickers you know Christians are perfect they're just forgiving I still feel like killing tomorrow [Music] you've gotta have a suit up throughout the kitchen she's little rare needs to do that she cannot [Music] there's really situation writing talking about it [Music] [Music] [Applause] welcome back to our show our next guest is a young man and he too is a young recovering substance abuser if we can please welcome Jake Mack and dollar yeah [Applause] hi Jay Fievel that's me my name is Jake Mackin dollar and when I was 16 years old I was a drug addict this video was recorded in 1993 when I was a patient in a drug abuse program for adolescents in Atlanta Georgia I first entered drug treatment and I was only 13 years old but I got started early I started you drinking with my friend mm-hmm just as like a weekend thing would go to my friend's house his parents had a liquor cabinet a lot of alcohol now I'm starting to take it but the first time actually before that I ever actually used drugs I had smoked marijuana nine years old nine years old it [Music] it was a long road to recovery for me I first entered the crossroads program in st. Louis Missouri when I was only 13 years old a few months later I was committed for 30 days to physicians Regional Hospital in Dallas Texas there I underwent daily group therapy sessions biomechanical feedback hypnosis and neuro electric therapy after my release I entered into crossroads nine week outpatient program for some time after I attended by weekly support group meetings participated in daily group activities and was even placed on crossroads steering committee a group of volunteers have helped to conduct meetings and welcome newcomers after a brief stand away from crossroads at 15 I was again committed for 30 days inside of a hospital this time at Orchard springs Hospital in Houston Texas shortly after I was removed from my family's home and sent to live with the leader of an affiliated program Atlanta insight in Atlanta Georgia and again to attend nine weeks of outpatient treatment this time I managed to hold it together for a while i strung together two and a half year sober became a leader to other addicts and even helped to launch a new branch of the program in fact I was scheduled to attend training to become a drug abuse counselor when at 18 I walked away from my last meeting and never stepped foot in one again I'm now 36 years old and although life has not been perfect I've managed to survive I get my best to put my past behind me and forget about the years I struggled with drug addiction I no longer kept in touch with the people I knew from those days and I never mentioned it to the new friends I would make I just wanted to live in normal life with all of its ups and downs then three things happened that made me unable to forget the past that I had left behind the first was Facebook suddenly I was able to reconnect with those that I had gone through drug treatment with 15 years prior and I came across a special Facebook profile someone named Jim Jones a fake profile named after the infamous Jonestown cult leader operated anonymously and designed resemble a typical member of crossroads insight and affiliated programs across the country their page to my surprise became a place for my fellow former addicts to air their grievances against these programs [Music] the second thing that happened is that around 2005 a number of news stories began to appear in newspapers and on television parents of children who are using drugs are often willing to try anything to help their kids but as ABC 15 investigator Abbey Boudreaux uncovers in this chilling report a few weeks of treatment at a program that we spent months investigating can turn into a lifetime of dependency not on drugs but on a program that many say indoctrinates hatred and fear here's a report controlling addiction we do warn you that some of the language may be disturbing last month we sent a producer into pathway drug abuse program in Tempe undercover you're gonna have to trust what I'm telling you living works um it's controlled chaos the ABC 15 investigators crossed the country uncovering horror stories about this man's organization stay here with me don't think about it and we demand answers from the man in charge Bamiyan yeah the third factor was prompted by the first two and it was the most difficult one for me to accept the bat kid the kid talking about smoking pot at nine years old talking about sneaking alcohol from his friend's parents liquor cabinet that kid me I was lying I wasn't a drug addict of 13 in fact at that age I'd never done drugs so I decided to seek out those people I've been through drug treatment with and try to understand just what the hell was going on here [Music] talking about what we're doing what were you worried in there where we're going yeah well we are going to Atlanta Georgia right now we're driving down there I'm st. Louis what to shoot what is hopefully going to be the final shoot for this documentary and talk to some some people that I knew from when I lived down there a lady that we're going to interview she had two two boys two sons that were both part of the group and I lived with their family for a long time while I was down there and she was a single mother raising two boys and then you know brought me in and then ended up bringing and other kids to live with her so she was very much like a you know a mother to me so we're going to talk to her and possibly her sons but I'm not sure and then we're going to talk to this girl that was when I went through outpatient with while I was down there and I was very close with her family too so they you know they're all these families down there that were part of the group and I was like the weird kid out that had come from you know been shipped down from st. Louis so sort of they all kind of looked after me [Music] everything got started here this is not a game down here sugar you say it's out this is free vote Constitution he's got started here this the beginning in the spring of 1971 a former heroin addict and convicted felon by the name of Bob Meehan was released from Lexington penitentiary and made his way to Houston Texas I met Bob at a young people say a meeting in the parish house my Palmer Church there and they were talking about when applying for a job whether or not one should reveal his past life as an alcoholic or not reveal it and Bob took the stand rather vigorously that you should play straight with the prospective employer and tell him all about yourself I would like to take you on here as part of our staff and the position of church sexton or janitor would you be interested oh yes he said Dida would so we made an arrangement for Bob was to be the janitor of Palmer Church in Houston Texas for the magnanimous um of something like a hundred dollars a week to something I said Bob we have children here that are having problems with drugs so keep your eye on them and if the hall doesn't get vacuumed right old time that's all right you turn your attention to the child who has knee Bob surrounded himself with about four young people between 17 and 18 years of age and they began to meet with Bob every day Bob and these four young people who first began the Palmer drug abuse program I began to come in such large numbers after about a month of this I began to wonder whether or not he was pushing the stuff you know but as it turned out he was doing anything but that the Palmer drug abuse program or padam that Bob Meehan founded proved to be wildly successful it expanded first within the Houston area then to Dallas and eventually throughout Texas Colorado and California with a paid staff of nearly 300 X addicts and an estimated membership of 22,000 it went from the basement of a church to one of the most influential drug treatment programs in the country Bob's approach to treating addiction he called enthusiastic sobriety and he hoped to instill in his members a sense of joy and passion for life without the need for drugs or alcohol soon Bob's methods attracted national attention in 1979 actress Carol Burnett sought Bob's help for her 15 year old daughter Carrie in October of the same year People magazine ran a cover story on Carrie struggle with addiction which praised Bob in his approach to recovery soon after Carol Carrie and Bob appeared on the Phil Donahue show and even Dan Rather did a piece for 60 minutes on Meehan and padam in 1980 Bob parted ways with padam and on his own began to establish programs throughout the u.s. and Canada based on his enthusiastic approach to sobriety [Music] so do you remember the first meeting you went I do my mom had dropped me off and I'll never forget it because I walked in and these these kids just going crazy I mean jumping all over each other what kind of building is like what kind of billion it was a house it was a an old home that was owned by a church I just recently moved here from Shreveport Louisiana you know so the culture shock from Louisiana that st. Louis was pretty tough on me you know when I was already going being a kid of divorce and readjusting and all that stuff so I was a kind of a loner if you will you know so this was a suggestion by a therapist to kind of remedy that I was looking for a place to go to be a part of things not necessarily a drug abuse place I knew a kid from elementary school who was involved and she invited me to a meeting we pulled up to a parking lot in church and it was in the evening and there was a swarm of kids who's all teenagers there was no adult president they were very smoking and all the guys had long hair and leather jackets on and I thought it was a cool place to be everybody seemed to be having fun and everybody wanted to be my friend immediately and I remember being a little weirded out by the you know the welcome there was always you know very touchy very hot I mean open you know hugging everyone hug yeah I love you the tension was overwhelming I was getting to three calls a day from people that I had met two days before I mean that's that's flattering and I want to get attention I'm one of those people who all me you know there was people showing up in my house out of the blue hey we're going out and I was like that was great it was just this new spontaneous thing of people and there might be somebody with these people that I'd never met before you know or in your models a 15 year old boy so there might be like girls there and I didn't No you know this new thing that's great that really belongs to anything before was in the sports or you know no it wasn't a once part of the cool crowd or anything like that at school or anything so you know I guess that that camaraderie or whatever appealed to me I had a friend that his dad smoked pot we'd steal a few of the little roaches off his little tray vaguely aware that he was doing this crossroads thing whatever but when he saw me he like freaked out and you know came give me a big hug took me around deuce me to everybody everyone there was a misfit though we're all misfits all together my mother kicked me out of the house when I was 18 years old and I just sent me to live with my father I didn't get along pretty well with my father I actually went on a 3-day just bender my father actually made missing posters of me he started hanging them up everywhere and one day he went into a Waffle House there was a couple of counselors and steering committee types that were in just happened to be in there that day and they started talking to them and said oh you know well we're in this program inside it's a drug abuse program if you find him tell him about us but all of a sudden I'm in this precarious position where I don't I'm given an ultimatum I walk into this situation I see all these kids running around having a good time and that people tell me they're not drinking and I knew that I couldn't at the time I walked in and I literally saw about thirty kids running around acting crazy having fun it was just an infectious group of kids that were all in the same vulnerable spot at the same time he was leading groups at our high school and he slowly started reeling me in before I knew it I decided okay I'll go I'll go check out a meeting I'm having several women hug me and tell me they love me which is always a good thing then they're saying you know hey we're going to go out we're just out late we get in trouble everybody that's in charge of the group is okay with that I said works for me let's do this before you join the group where you weren't using drugs and alcohol no but not just not using drugs and alcohol you are actually like actively promoting a lifestyle without drugs and alcohol yeah and I think in my back of my head I wanted to be part of it I didn't know how and all of a sudden they kind of click with me like oh well oh yeah I have a problem too you know I can come up with a problem were you using drugs at the time I had used marijuana probably under five times I had a drink once kind of went with the flow I did what the other kids did they talked about serious drug problems I felt like to be in order to be a part of this I had to have some of those things to say those things didn't happen to me but I you know quickly made them up you know I went into treatment saying I was a heroin that you had 13 years old why would a 13 year old kid lie and say that they're a heroin addict for me it was it was something that I thought I needed to do in order to be a part the way that I ended up in the group in the first place was because of my father because this whole concept of drug addiction and alcoholism and recovery even has been in my life as long as I can remember because as early as I can remember I was told my father wasn't around I was told that your dad is an alcoholic right and I know he I was told he was like you know a recovering alcoholic he was in AAA or whatever so when I was like 13 a friend's a friend took me to an Alateen meeting Alateen is like a Organization for children whose parents are alcoholics or drug addicts you know like a support group and he took me to that because he knew and his mom knew the story that my father was an alcoholic so he took me to that and then from there he said oh I went to this other place that you should come to this place right and that ended up that other place ended up being the group and you know I hadn't been on drugs or anything at that and really at that point but basically the idea that you know because my dad was an alcoholic that's what got me into the group in the first place Bob Meehan's philosophy of enthusiastic sobriety is centered around the idea that in order for young people to avoid drugs and alcohol they need to have as little restrictions as possible in other areas of their lives parents are encouraged to allow their children to smoke cigarettes to drop out of school and to spend as much time as possible with other members of the group you're gonna have to trust what I'm telling you living works um it's controlled chaos he asked me if I what drugs had done and I had told him I had smoked pot before and he said you know if you stick around for 30 days that he'd buy me bag weed you know what I mean and I just was like all right I mean I mean I was on a mission to stay there for 30 days and get some free dope because I'm 13 years old I can't get two Oh penny way there's only three rules the three FS no fixing no fighting no [ __ ] so if you didn't get high if you weren't violent and you weren't having sex with anybody you were good to go my involvement with the counselors and the group itself allowed me to do the things that I was always thinking I should be able to do or want to do as a young kid you know I mean I had issues you know I was a spoiled kid and I wanted to do what I wanted to do and they made this possible or legitimate I mean they were able to speak to my parents and allow this my parents objected to anything they talked to them know now I can stay out till 2:00 3:00 4:00 in the morning and they if there's any problem with that then you know they talk to my parents about it and assure them that I need to be doing this and I could hang out all night I could not go to school if I didn't want to go to school I didn't particularly like school you know what I mean so now I don't have to go to school you know they think it's better that I don't go to school well so do I now there's only three rules so you do really didn't have to listen or expect anybody's wishes you could kind of do what you wanted you know is weird there was like so like sense of entitlement that we like made this incredible accomplishment of getting off drugs so we could be as big [ __ ] as we wanted to yeah you can break stuff people's house and that was okay if the parents that you couldn't smoke in the house if the counselor said you could you did I'd go home to sleep sometimes most the time it would be at other people's houses the steps are taken from Alcoholics Anonymous and crosswords decided to to kind of have their own version of it we found it necessary to stick with winners in order to grow and what would what do they mean you people you've used with you know connections you know anything like that that was any reminder of your lifestyle before crossroads is uh um not advised strongly so pretty much cut all ties uh what it means is you know to stick with people that are gonna help you grow yourself grow into a better person you know to you know overcome your addiction a winner would be defined as what someone in the group I mean period the end you know what would they say if Astros end it in a more colorful way well somebody that doesn't use and somebody that no but but the reality was it was somebody else that was it period hang out with a group and only the group you know because all my friends before the group I just completely blew off I lost them pretty much and it was just the group that's all I had the group is the tunnel vision you have just the group and nothing else hung out with people in the group you hung out with people you knew if there was family members that were even you know quote-unquote kind of sketchy or not good for you you were made to not be a part of their lives and everything was all encompassing you spent all of your time with somebody in the group there was not one day not one day at all that I wasn't with some member of the group in one form or another if you think about the simple concept of stick with winners in order to grow I mean it's like a normal sort of concept is you know hang out with people that positive influences positive influence will get you where where you want to go but in practice the way that that was used inside of the group was this is it right the people these are the only people that you are to associate with right and everybody else is bad you you know oh they're out to get you is he still around yeah and you still do let's shake not that much longer long after I got into the group my my dad killed himself because he had been in like a a for several years and it started drinking again and I guess it just couldn't hack it or something the idea that's presented you to you in the group is that if you leave here you're going to die well that became very real to me you know that that idea because my dad did die you know that became very real to me and you know basically one of the reasons that I started making this movie is because my dad killed himself when he was 36 and I'm gonna be 36 very soon and so that sort of you know that cloud kind of hovering over me you know that that timeline coming up was part of what prompted me to do this in the group you your higher power is the group it is the love of the group the steps were changed to create that idea of a higher power being the love of the group and that only by sticking with group members were we able to survive and that we would die if we didn't follow those rules it's been told to me through you know counseling and therapy that you know when I was in that group I was not in control of my life and you asked me stopped me it was just a couple days ago he said Josh he was control your life I was just kind of thrown off by the question and he said they were this whole idea of freedom you know be your own person and be free and you know you don't have to be in the chains of addiction and all these things anymore but the irony is the exact opposite of that there was no freedom there was no freedom to truly be yourself or speak your own personal opinion you could not think a thought without saying it to somebody else otherwise you were dishonest wedging is staying up 24 hours or more you are completely wedged until it was 24 hours I think the best example that was told to me was that when you stay up for so many days you're so tired that you feel like you know something is getting wedged into your brain staying up over-caffeinated running around doing endless amounts of who knows what that you're just your minds not even thinking conscious thoughts anymore because it get together stay up all night and basically sleep deprived themselves so that by the next morning or sometimes they drag it on to the next day you know there were Lukey basically so a lot of these banquets and Ron Rollins and stuff like that you know people would make a point stay up all night good to be around Robin is when you purposefully stay awake all night around about 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning when everybody is tired and vulnerable is when you then have some kind of meeting where people can share confessions or made-up confessions people would just get the mic and confess to like you know horrible things that have happened to them or that they did get molested you know lost somewhere else that have six months of beads worth of they're like two weeks ago they're getting high with their old friends you know stuff like that a lot of molestation a lot of rape unfortunately you were told at the round robin that whatever you share your deepest darkest secrets that you're going to share and you have to understand there's like hundreds of people because the whole city would come together or something the group is very active you know we were there in the early nineties people would share stories of abuse of both perpetrated and being the victim of now as an adult none of those abuse cases were reported which makes me angry you know you've seen a lot of people either get slap-happy or they break down you know they break down they get emotional and that's you know where people are probably mmm it's the word I'm looking for vulnerable rule especially when there's like sexual abuse stuff that was shared that the authority should have been contacted it's it's something that is required of therapists or anybody that cares what works with children I did notice that a sleep deprivation is on the list of softening techniques of teja interrogators at Guantanamo Bay well I'm not find it in every and that's [ __ ] I have my tribunals no it's not there's 90 percent of the hospitals in ads and programs from people none existed ninety percent of 95 percent the hospitals have programs that deal with teenagers like we deal with them okay suck the kids walk out of there either one drugs that they gave them or they said oh we can't help it we told them what to do they chose not to work on themselves that you're telling me they have to do the work of themselves I don't fix anybody I can think they have to do all right nobody motivates them to be able to do that you [Music] the story that Dan Rather did for 60 minutes turned out to be less than flattering it painted Bob Meehan as arrogant and greedy it revealed that he was receiving payments from local hospitals for each young person that he had committed some as young as 11 and 12 it also called into question the effectiveness of Bob's methods Meehan and his colleagues had consistently claimed a 75 to 80 percent success rate in helping young people to stay off drugs but when pressed for evidence Meehan balked and his estimates quickly fell when the 60 minutes piece aired a slew of negative publicity followed and in 1980 the Palmer drug abuse programs Board of Directors asked Bob Meehan to step down and have subsequently severed all ties with me hand and his methods less than a year after being asked to leave padam bob Meehan resurfaced in San Diego and started freeway a community-based adolescent drug abuse program based on the same principles and techniques he had employed a padam but this time bob also opened the sober living center or slick ranch a for-profit inpatient treatment center where patients as young as 12 would stay on site for 30 days having been referred by counselors of freeway but the controversy the force Bob to flee Texas soon followed a collection of former members began to spread the word through consumer rights groups the community and even the District Attorney's Office an investigation uncovered that Meehan had been illegally operating an unlicensed drug and alcohol abuse facility neither he nor his staff had received the proper training or certifications in the California State Department of Social Services ordered all freeway operations to be shut down when Meehan appealed the decision and attempted to retroactively Lee apply for a license state officials denied his request on the grounds that he was neither reputable nor of responsible character the district attorney however chose not to pursue a criminal investigation that had been sought by parents and former staff members and less than a year after being ordered to close the doors freeway and slick ranch reopened this time with Bob Meehan allegedly uninvolved the new director however had been hand-selected by Bob and had previously helped manage slick ranch under Meehan's ownership with this move Meehan discovered the tactic that would enable his programs to flourish you there's different categories of yes and liquor but you've got steering committee and and then they have this over glorified steering committee position called councilors a staff aide so I progressed to staff aide without even realizing how I'd get gotten there I'd gotten to this point of okay well I just I'm going to the next level that's what I want to do you know and you know I was 18 years old so you know probably like most 18 year olds are supposed to be thinking about you know what school they're gonna go to or you know whatever their next step is going to be after high school or whatever there was there was no question in my mind that my next step was going to be as a staff member of this program didn't matter where and I show up in Atlanta and I find out that part of my job you know as a staff member is to UM is to try to figure out who needs to go into this outpatient treatment program keep in mind I'm an eighteen year old I'm an 18 year old kid here you know um and I don't know that looking back on that still it's that's an overwhelming responsibility you know um it was one that that were reminded about often definitely and that's saying it nicely um we're pretty much pressured you know to find new people and get them into outpatient you know so did you had any at this point any training any counselor training no they set us around a table and I don't remember how we would open out but I remember there would be some days you weren't outpatient for five hours and there would be days where only be about you and the days that it would only be about me I would be hysterically crying cuz they would push for information from me that I did not want to talk about a lot of times you had someone who really wasn't that willing to talk about much and that gave of course me the opportunity and and whoever else was in there to kind of jab at that person and kind of try to pry him open you know so there was always some direction to go into that way basically a lot of loaded questions trying to you know drill into you know um you know you need to admit you know that your problems I had a very rough childhood with my father and some things that had happened that I did not feel comfortable talking about with anybody and they would dig they would say you know as your dad around and I'd say no my dad's not around why isn't your dad around and I would talk about why my dad wasn't around and they would continue to push and they would say you know if they knew that they'd struck a chord because I get emotional they would push onto that tell us more tell us more there were no boundaries and I'm impatient you know none and looking back on it it's I have a long list of regrets I'm being involved that program and that's hard to talk about and you'd be uncomfortable talking about this because I don't know these other people over here I don't know this guy at all and they would push and it was like the more you cried the more they felt they were making a breakthrough but you felt more vulnerable because here you are saying and talking about stuff that you are very uncomfortable about and now that I am older I know they didn't have knowledge to deal with some of the things that would be talked about in there if they had some kind of sexual abuse in their past or something like that you know I mean something really heavy you know um I mean that was just that was just ripped out onto the floor you know and then talked about you know you got to talk about this you got to deal with this you know an outpatient you talked about not just drug use but they would talk about molestation they talked about rape co-ed we had boys and girls in this area so detailed information that girls would have to talk about in our group we had girls that had been lost it and had been rights they had to go through details about that with males sitting in the room that they didn't know or barely knew or completely was uncomfortable and if you chose to not talk about that something was wrong with you for not getting into that and young girls were talking about things that had no business talking about in a room full of people especially the other males in there that sort of thing if you wanted me to get that deep with it right now I want you get deepest part is you're comfortable but you know it we would persist you know talk about this Tom you know pull this out there you know and and and like I said you know that's that's just looking back things I regret the most you know what was the criteria to to enroll somebody you know people well again there's two there's two answers to this one there's the answer that it's given when asked which would be of course somebody who's you know chemical abuse is severe enough to where they need that kind of that acute of an intervention to you know it's not be using then the real answer is anybody we could get in there that's the truth that is the truth anybody that was new get him an outpatient every person that we could get into treatment we got into treatment any person that parents could pay for treatment went into treatment whether that was there was people who had never done alcohol you know had never done drugs or alcohol the entire time they're there there's a girl who it was homosexual and her her parents brought her in and that's the reason that she was in treatment it wasn't drugs and alcohol there was a girl there with eating just eating disorder never use drugs and alcohol you know there was but there whole thing was like well if they do this then they probably will do drugs and alcohol and therefore they're probably going to become heroin junkies and you know be a detriment to our society the idea that was put into your head or that you were led to believe was that you would literally die I mean it wasn't a figurative sense it was without being here you will die and that's a that's a terrifying idea to a young kid you know I have a story that I think can accurately explain or give an example of of what it took and what they did to those parents um there was a person in the group who was he again during out what I wanted to go through outpatient told immediate outpatient this person was fifteen they took this person made them stay awake they went to them you know which you know so they were weak for over 24 hours and forced them to believe that they were going to die if you leave this room if you leave here you'll die and when you're when you're not sleep-deprived in you're a teenager and you have authority figures telling me these things you're going to believe them so well the leaders of that group stood over this person they dialed the phone and told that person to call their parent who was not involved with the group it was a divorced household and then the other parent was not involved wouldn't be involved um and forced that person to tell the parent if you don't pay for outpatient I'm going to tell people you molested me and that was not even true it was 1,000% untrue it was a lie that was made up and forced and that was the kind of desperation and twisted thinking that they put into people's heads and they told parents you know your kid's gonna die this is the only game in town how do you how do you know this story [Music] it was me right now we're going to interview a lady who I lived with for quite a long time when I lived down here in Atlanta heard both of her sons were in the group and she was kind of like my my mother when I lived in Atlanta hi how are you good how are you do we need to move the car yeah make it ever to visit her yes all people fine okay me everyone all right um we'll just get it moved and come back in okay yeah it's a didn't we still trashy right all over the wall oh yeah they wrote prayers and sayings and inspirational things all over this wall this these walls were completely covered it's so different being back here like 20 years later and there's not a thousand teenage kids running away I don't know going crazy who knows I might have to do that experience again you got all new furniture and stuff I did yeah I am so you said on yeah so what are you thinking I know there was a reluctance in doing this during this interview can I ask why from my point of view it's just a time in our lives we'd rather not remember we've moved on from there and it was not the most pleasant part of our lives so didn't really want to dredge it all back up again it's that how about you what was the kind of reluctance well but kind of the same thing I mean it's something that happened many years ago and we we dealt with it at that time and it was not a real positive point of our lives so it was kind of something that we thought we've moved past and like I say you put it to the back your mind and try not to dredge itself up but yeah I decided to do that yes we noticed I was pretty lost back then I would you know lost my husband I was raising two kids trying to hold down a full-time job you know it was I was pretty lost from a parent's perspective at the time it was and the only option you felt like you had to save your child's life because your child was out of control your child was using drugs and you didn't know what to do really what my thoughts were at that time was I didn't think you actually had a problem that you weren't doing anything at that point that wasn't just normal teenage behavior you know because all teenagers are going to experiment with this they're going to experiment with that they're going to get in trouble they're going to they're going to be teenagers but I never never once looked at you and thought you had a serious drug addiction or alcohol addiction I mean I even remember asking about it really why are you here if that's what this is well because I have a problem and I think by then they'd kind of convinced you you had a problem you didn't know where to turn there was no place to turn and from a parent's perspective that's what it was to me a way to save their lives when it first started we thought it was a positive thing but the longer we went with the program the more we began to see it for what we really thought it was a ripoff you hadn't been in the program that long before they recommend you go to treatment and that started sending up warning flags with us but I remember them talking to me and saying here's how much money it's going to cost you and this is what he needs to do and you know I hate to boil it make it sound like I'm boiling this down to money by the time we were financially strapped and at that point you would do anything for your child you would you know you didn't care how crazy it was you didn't care how insane it was you didn't care if half the things that they did didn't make any sense you just wanted your child to live it took our son away from us there wasn't a relationship there anymore for most of those five years and money-wise it was a ripoff we spent a lot of money that I don't think we needed to spend and that also caused a lot of bad feelings you were made to feel like you were no good if you didn't follow along with what they wanted you to do as parents and you were constantly threatened with the fact that if you didn't your child was going to be pulled out of your home and placed someplace else my life was a mouse my kid's life lives were a mouse and I think it put me back on on track and it gave for me it the boys were taken care of you know I didn't have to worry about them and I could focus on me you know not that it you know that sounds kind of selfish but I think at the time I needed to be a little bit selfish they were looking for memberships almost like a cult anybody that had any type of problem they brought a man and said oh you you have this problem now you join our group and so for years and years I was sending oh my god we were sending at least $800 a month to these different hospitals it became very much of a financial burden that we paid for for years and years and years there's a long time to pay those bills off but I know for me when I left it was kind of you know what do I do next even even as an adult like well what do I do next you know what where do I go from here and you wanted to go to Atlanta I do remember that you were all for going to Atlanta and that's when I said that's fine you can make your decision to go but if that's what you're going to do you're going to have to take your father's inheritance and pay for because I'm not paying for it I've already paid out enough I'm not paying for it anymore my situation is very similar to yours in that my father passed away and right the money that was spent for my treatment was that sort of life insurance money and it's all gone yep you know it's all gone does that bother you feel like you got your money's worth for that I was very careful I didn't spend the kids money look their money got invested the money that was spent was my money I would do it again just because I didn't know what else to do um so what was it like for you guys his parents Annette when I went to Atlanta by the time I went to Lane I was 16 and basically Atlanta wasn't a temporary thing wasn't like Dallas or Houston right I would get to live all right I lived there for about two and a half years so what was that like for you as parents to send your 16 year old kid to the other side of the country to live at that point in our life it was a relief because we didn't have to deal with you anymore what do you remember about me from that time period um you know I remember being very grateful that you were in my house because you brought Arlo out of his shell he became you you and Arlo became such good friends and I was really so grateful for that five grand minimum to start treatment so it's all about the money I think it was really that's I mean a lot of people say that you think that's really what the motivation was to just get people in here to get money yeah no doubt in my mind because there wasn't anybody that we were like oh they need more help or they actually need you know professional help like they need you know have bipolar you know or severe depression like so many of them did I mean there's there's so many other problems and they could have actually used you know professional help that specialized in that area never referred them even if they are getting help for something specific somebody who's in therapy for depression we would pull them out of that therapy and so they could just focus on you know their drug and alcohol issues where did that money go you know there is there's two families that made the most money is Bob and joy and Clinton Wendy I'm Clint Stonebraker director of pathways Ogdensburg Raymond Arizona and I'm a part of Bob's family also both as a son-in-law and his brother as he had discovered in San Diego by allowing one of his followers to own and operate his recovery centers Bob Meehan could avoid coming under public scrutiny for his past while receiving a healthy income based off of consulting and appearance fees in this way Bob set up programs across North America each one ostensibly owned by a local director but in reality reporting directly to Bob some of these directors such as Frank sakta former director of the crossroads program in Missouri and now the executive director of the cornerstone program in Colorado have remained faithful to Bob in his methods others have broken rank and even spoken out publicly condemning Bob and accusing him of using heavy-handed manipulation tact I've lived that too leave the program meant to die you've learned early on that your own thinking is messed up and sick and destructive Dave Larson also went to me hand to get clean so taken by Meehan at one point he was the owner of the Tempe program I spent you know twelve years under his direct yeah control bob maintained a tightly controlled group of directors across the country to run his programs and report back to him one such director was Clint Stonebraker an in Clint Bob saw rising star Clint was handsome in charming but more importantly he knew how to run a business the programs that Clint operated financially outperformed all the others so much so the Clint's methods were duplicated across the country and Clint was brought on board to take over the programs that were failing in the mid-1990s Bob arranged for Clint to marry his daughter the two men bought houses next door to each other and Clint became an official member of the family in the heir apparent I'm a part of Bob's family also but as his son-in-law ain't his brother and I'd like I guess you could say my idol you know um I kind of wanted to follow this guy's path you know I wanted to be like this guy a lot no no he was just my hero Clem was a very charismatic concert very charismatic guy and he's very persuasive and I mean I was one of the things I'm sort of tractive about him you know is a and he's funny you know especially funny you know so all these things mean he just had a very much of leadership character definitely he was I mean a natural leader he was like a coach that you didn't want to let down it was like Pavlov's dog or it was like Stockholm Syndrome that was my relationship with Clint he knew how to psychologically break it down he'd he'd make funny you know he'd play off that weakness that insecurity that you're want your desire to be accepted and he would and he would just beat you down beat you down beat you down and then that one time he'd bring you up and then you'd feel like okay this guy likes me and then he just beat you down beat you down beat you down so I created this kind of Stockholm Syndrome thing with Clint where I you know I loathed him because he was so mean to me and he would make so much fun of me but at the same time I revered him because he was the guy he was the guy who ran the place and in that moment I just wanted people to like me and I'm sure in his mind if he if he told you right now which he won't but if he did he would say oh you know I was just poking fun I was making fun and into the truth is how about you almost give him that I almost say he was probably to a certain extent who we were just on a higher level you know he but he had just bought in to the point to where it wasn't affecting him anymore because now he was seeing dividends from it well what's wrong with this I'm making money you know I'm running things of course in his perspective this is great what's wrong here you know he was able to go home in his nice car and stay with his wife in his nice house and do his nice thing well while we were over here you know taking care of the kids he was bringing into the group but Clint was one other thing he was my mentor my sponsor and for lack of a better way of saying it a father figure when I was removed from my family's home and sent to live in Atlanta I moved into Clint's rented two-bedroom townhouse and slept on the couch he was my sponsor from the day that I arrived until the day that I left he took me and others like me under his wing and some even jokingly referred to me as Clint's boy [Music] we would have these meetings okay twice a month usually um called purpose okay well huh let me get her into that um purpose meetings those were fun the higher you went the harsher it got the degrees got got further and the same kind of way but no boundaries um I mean there were straight-up abusive man you know um yelling you know you know ridiculing there was always somebody on the hot seat and purpose there was never an exception to that and purpose became and this is one of the pressures of be on staff purpose became I hope to god I'm not an Aussie you know that's what it was and and you know if there was ever you know anything that that you're reprimanded about you know and in the and the in a period leading to a purpose meeting then you know you walked in there with the fear of God that you're it was your turn do you remember it being your turn many times so I felt in sometimes that I was kind of his golden boy oh yeah you know I was under his wing you know and I felt like I was exempt from all of that stuff uh-huh until that day came from and it came and I had I had done my inventory with Clint read this whole my whole life stories on every detail and we get into purpose and I usually you know I usually just that's not me you know I'm Clint boy it's it's good but it became me and it became I think we spent about thirty minutes of him you know saying you know what is wrong with you you know what is the problem what is wrong with you and he got the blame where I was pulling out things say is this what you're looking for you know is that the thing um until it got to the fact that my my grandmother had died and when my grandmother died she died from from tripping over my luggage okay and he kind of had heard that in my inventory I realized later like he was waiting for me to find that little thing he had heard that thing he wanted to bring that right and it to be honest it up into that point that had never really affected me that much you know my grandmother dies everybody everybody's grandmother dollars you know it's not like I killed my mom there she was like 80 years old you know but to the point where I was literally on the floor in tears you know with all of my my peers around him and I almost felt at that time like you know he's just just doing this to kind of abusing me and put me in my place and then looking back now I think that's probably what was going on but and the reason why that probably didn't happen you too often is because there were people that were more aware of that than others and I think you always were more aware of what the fact that that's the truth of the matter that that was the truth of the matter that there was abuse that people were being cut out of my place you were always resistant to that it was always um it was always my dad my dad was the Scott repeating issue you know Scott of course has to be angry at his father like I said it was always as this pseudo psychological no pathological you know um it's just crap it really was it was just crap you know um yeah same as you you know it's like you know something like that is pointed out it's like well sure yeah it bothers me that my dad beat the [ __ ] out of me but um that's all there is to it right now you know what I mean maybe there are some times we're like I feel like sobbing about it or feeling deeply about it but now isn't the time and but you want me to feel that way right now that's how you want this purpose to be right now you want this to be some you know heavy freaking breakdown of Scott louder and and and this abusive past of his so you know if that's how it was wanted then you know it was attempted people lose study this stuff will tell you that drug addiction and alcoholism incessant can be genetic and so if you're like a child of an alcoholic or drug addict you might be genetically predisposed to also have that same problem and that was we've definitely reinforced but it didn't take a lot to reinforce it to me because I knew that too you know so it scared the hell out of me you know if I don't stay here that I'm gonna end up basically like my dad did that's you know the things that my counselors would always talk to me about that's the that's the reason I did everything that I did because I was you know you know I was angry at my father I was definitely used as a tactic to kind of control me and again he didn't they didn't take much to convince me because because it terrified me that I would end up that way yes some ways I was able to justify it to myself that I needed to be there despite the fact that I hadn't really been on a lot of drugs or drank was like well my dad had this so I obviously have got it too so I've got to be vigilant about myself in my life to make sure that I don't end up like that you know on my dad died I was given some of his stuff and some of the stuff that I was given was like he's a big book you know and like we would have the big book in the group too you know like we would read stuff from it and I mean like I got his copy of that there was like this leather-bound version and I got some of his like you know an a a they give you like sobriety chips you know and I would I got some of his sobriety chips so it just was like it just seems so natural for me like I'm this I'm supposed to be a part of this whole recovery thing and you know and in some ways I thought to like oh you know my dad just did it wrong cuz he went to AAA and he should have you know if he could have just only been a part of the group you know I talked to him when I first said I was gonna make this movie and you said I would like to interview you for he was my friend on Facebook you know like we had talked a few times yeah and he said I'll think about it real and then after I released the little trailer he's I can he'll now he deleted me from Facebook and yeah I tried to contact him over and over again he won't talk to me and mine okay if that doesn't tell you everything he'll spin it as oh this is a bunch of Lies and mis misconstrued ID litter right hit her kid you know this and that you know but the truth is this this is real this happened you know and yes he's not some guy that would held a knife to our throats you know and but that's what was so brilliant about it is that he didn't have to some people describe it as a slave for the program like you paid so little money you're working so much you're told to do so much you go through this whole brainwashing experience and you're used for two line Bob and Joy's pockets and Clinton Wendy Clint picked out our apartment he also knew how much we were getting paid and so you're always with somebody who's you know helping you make those decisions or clinto has already made those decisions for you if here's where you're living here's what your rent is you're splitting it with one other staff member and you know deal with it the kid comes in the door there you know what's what's the process what do you as a counselor do I mean the biggest thing that you do is get the kid to kind of like the program you gather information well kind of telling him or her about the reasons why the program is cool and why it's good because eventually we're going to want to get them in treatment and get their parents there and if the kid is saying I want help you know pay for help for me parents are a lot more likely to to sign that check set somebody up in a situation where you know they're exaggerating they're talking kind of in a small group and wanting to look cool in front of whoever and so that you set them up in a situation where they're eight start talking about like their used and you know they smoke pot here they did that or they whatever and and then it just gets blown out and blowing up into you know well either you need treatment because of and there's something else that you will usually come out whether schools not going well grades family relationships well I'm talking about the program I'm gathering information and it's such a twisted thing that you're finding out information that you're you know this person's kind of saying and then you you kind of have to do this exaggerated make it into yeah something is going to fit this diagnosis but three oh four point six or something and that's the thing is that the diagnosis means nothing the diagnosis is I don't think ever even discussed we would just automatically write that down for every client it was a blanket diagnosis so that anybody could you know be in our treatment program so do you do you think that you personally have misdiagnosed people in that way I have and I went to the State Board in Arizona I wrote a letter and I know several other counselors that said all you know these charts were forged I know they shredded mine they shredded lots of people's charts prior you know well before the time that it was legal for them to shred it there's lots of people who's you know that you could not find a chart for and the amount of guilt that I had when I really when I really took in what I was a part of and my role is it took it was beyond what I can even describe it was I realized the abuse that I had endured and I also realized the abuse that I also dished out and it was at the same time trying to deal with both of those was really really tough it was abuse you know in those situations I've been an abuser I've been abused never in my wildest dreams did I think I was doing harm as adult looking back and knowing how much harm it's yeah unbelievable damage was done to kids to families people people died and people lost their loved ones you know some to death and some just damage that cannot be repaired to families I think at the time I was you know I was doing what I thought I was supposed to be doing you know but I can see in a lot of ways and I current member in a lot of ways people being direct hurt and and and violated I mean violated like I said there were no boundaries in there do you feel like your time in in the group as a member of that do you feel like it has an impact on you today yeah lower um it makes them makes having personal relationships really you know trusting close relationships difficult it affects your daily life six my you know um there's trust who do you trust and how much you don't know guess what we're gonna do you and I are gonna walk over to the old satellite what yeah no way yeah why not that's where we met that's where we spent all our time together you been over there yeah I haven't been there since the last time I left there I haven't even don't ask Gretchen you're very young how did it all start with you well the first time I ever really liked smudge or did any bangles it was when I was 7 years old I just had you lead the way would you remember how to get there okay you do know my sense of direction rain no I don't I don't know how to get home from here okay um maybe probably not but maybe probably not who's faithful yup this world I know it's up here on the left great yeah yeah so you want to tell me a story tell me how you first got involved in the group you were there my very first day was that yeah you were yeah I kind of remember that yeah you were um and so with Scott because Scott lather was one of my first counselors along with Clint I walked in and Clint was standing there and he's like hey come into my office and there are a bunch of kids hanging out in the satellite there was music blaring I can't like complete punks and I was like what the hell and I go into Clint's office and he explains to me you know the group is you know basically a Organization for teens with drug problems and you're gonna come every day from what was it eight to noon or whatever eight to one or something like that you're gonna have outpatient and about uh outpatient outpatient um I laugh cuz it was just ridiculous I can look back as an adult and see just how dysfunctional it was I don't know it was a play it was a group of us I think there are three girls for boys and we basically just talked we had a leader that came in and we talked about things that we did things we thought things that we felt well that was the first time like the very first it wasn't a constant news not from like 7:00 I did it and I'd like that a couple kind of like that you know cuz I'm coming but I can seventh grade around when he died is when it was just big enough do you think that picking up yeah I do very much stuff cuz I mean I guess I just never really dealt cuz I can look back in it is so cold fish yeah as an adult and just see all of the problems and so funny I remember even like the slope of this parking lot so that's a good thing that like you used to park over here with your big ol Chevelle [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] nice we got let's go in lingo in no we can't go here I wasn't a really we're good look in it looks like it looks like a normal place I remember sitting in that office yeah that was Clint's off [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] and then the backroom is where we had our candy was completely normal yeah we're not weird to you it's totally weird cuz it's not the one thing is like everything that looks clean and yeah well taken care of you know rather than disgusting and dirty like a backwoods crack house yeah so look what did you think about when I showed you the video of you from being interviewed in outpatient it made me sad why because I was a child I mean I think when I came here it was you you almost had it drilled in you you are you are this you are this you are you know you have problems or you're an alcoholic you're a drug addict and you did this and that you have sex and you you know let me do great you as much as possible so that you believe in what I'm trying to tell you it wasn't that bad let me beat it into you that this is what you are you know what I mean I watched Chris Bayliss asked me these questions kind of almost probing me to go in a certain direction that he wanted me to go in because of the I want to say entertainment value but the it looks bigger and you know kids gone wild let's see how crazy we can get them to confess you know or I'm gonna confess but what direction and in that age it's easy to go to be hurted I look back now and I'm like what the [ __ ] was my mother thinking I would never ever conceive of allowing my child to do something like that that is going to determine the rest of her life you when you came here they cut you off from everything so this was all you knew so if you weren't here I mean even if your family didn't agree with here then you won't allow to talk to your family anymore I mean they literally isolated you to the point that this was your lifeline so you stay I come from a very sorted past and my father had passed away and it was oh let's talk about you know the death of your father well I mean that's personal what do you think was the purpose of bringing up like you know getting you to talk about you know your father dying or you know any other like severe emotional trauma was the purpose of trying to get you to talk about that stuff I don't know I guess because of what we were supposed to feel through it I remember hearing that a lot I remember hearing it from a me a lot let's we need to feel through this and to the day I still don't understand what the hell that mean I think that I mean just my opinion I think they wanted you to get all of that emotion you know out right now right rather than just letting it sort of naturally process itself which is that those kind of things do you know correct but it also puts you in a very vulnerable position I agree and you know if you're in a vulnerable position then it's much easier to get you to sort of do their bidding I agree I think they keep you in a vulnerable position we'll never forget she looked at me one time and said you'll never relieve here because if you do you're always gonna come back and I remember thinking [ __ ] you hell no I won't and I walked out that door and I remember thinking that's the last [ __ ] time you're going to see me and to this day it is the last time that [ __ ] see me which is why I think I've never come back here because I was so no I'm done no this is it I don't meet this I'm done and I've never come back until this moment I think when I walked out of these doors I picked myself up I don't know how it's to explain that they still in a way controlled and beat you down and when I walked out of here you picked yourself up and you're like alright alright life let's see what we're gonna do is different you know I'm not used to talking to people that aren't who I'm allowed to talk to I'm not used to having conversations or in social settings or you know let's dress it but I can look back now in like how did I miss this time do you not think that do you not like look back now and be like how did I miss that well I mean I I think back me wonder like how did I convince myself that I was a drug addict when I knew in my head that I was alert and that I had never even really done anything that you were like a complete and utter psychopath I was in a hospital like committed in hospitals and I wasn't a drug addict but if I convinced but I convinced myself to that's what you totally were and that you were [ __ ] up and that you had problems and that the things that you thought in your head were not rational ah yeah no I think I appreciate you doing this so it's a big help for me problem probably fun to make us make you a satellite seriously Jake I remember walking out I remember the day I remember how I felt I remember [ __ ] I can't even tell you what the [ __ ] I was wearing when I walk cuz it was such I remember thinking it was such a significant point that I had to make note of it you know what I mean like you know those points in your life were like we need to remember this yeah yeah and I remember thinking I need to remember this because I'm never [ __ ] coming back here again shared something with your dad then you were like yeah man that that weird like fucked-up-ness of the fact that my only connection to my dad was that I had this disease that he also had I was the only connection I had to him I mean I had I went to inpatient treatment carrying his a a big book you know and there was almost like a sense of he is like I'm gonna win this fight that you lost I don't know Am I oh [ __ ] I don't like this it's me now I feel like I'll win that fight when when my daughter grows up I don't I don't know man I mean I think ultimately that's why I made this movie stay into that question right there there's been times in my life where I certainly felt like I did but I don't even know if it's a thing like I don't even know if it's real like if it's a I mean I look I'm sure that there is such a thing as alcoholism and I'm sure there's such a thing as drug addiction and people have that but for my situation I just I don't know I mean there's been times in my life where I've abused alcohol you know there have been times of my life where I've done things that I regretted because of it and in a lot of those times afterwards when I'm reflecting back on it I would say well obviously I did that because I had this disease as I've gotten older I just would go like oh I did that because I'm a dumbass you know and I know a lot of other people have done dumb things in those situations you know it doesn't play a huge role in my life anymore because I just found other things that were more important to me I don't know I don't know if I have it man it's more important to me now that I do that thing you know for my child that my father wasn't around to do you know Ben just just being a parent you know just being a dad that's more important to me now than whether or not I have inherited some you know genetic predisposition to alcoholism a lot of people myself included have a very difficult time transitioning from that world into the normal world hmm how was your transition mmm was horrible it was horrible there was no transition for me at first because I had no idea what to do I was literally crippled once you left you were gone you were shunned and and shunned is an appropriate word because no one was allowed to talk to you the only time you could talk about someone that had left as if you were talking in a negative way because if you weren't allowed to be friends with anybody who would left you knew that you are now on your own you had no resources and many times you had no family left I just didn't know what the next step was for me or how did you even figure out what the next step was you know I felt like a very small child to understand that everything that you know is wrong and you have nobody to rely on you have nobody to trust that that's it and by the way you have no probably no education no money no life skills no marketable skills well yeah you're set up to do exactly what you've been told you're going to go out and you're going to do drugs and you're gonna die or you're going to go to jail I went to heavy heavy heavy drug abuse and like I said felony drug charge all of then a month a month and a half then it was kind of like what I referred to as the group outside of the group you know it was all former group members and we all hung out but now drugs are being used and now we are drinking and you are doing all this things and it got bad real quick you know and uh what do you mean well I mean drug use went from I mean it was it was crack it was it was hard drugs you know it was stealing it was all the things that we said we we did you know and we were like in this competition with each other to prove ourselves to one another I mean we can you know we are this bad as if you will that we always said we were drinking heavily again I got into heavy cocaine use daily cocaine use smoking it's more in it you know that sort of thing and and the things that go along with that you know um stealing to get money you know um bank fraud you know depositing in fee envelopes in the ATM that kind of stuff you know um I was a criminal I was a drug abusing criminal when you're in the group it's it's like an all-access pass to everything all the time but that's not how real life works in real life there's boundaries because they're supposed to be boundaries I think that a lot of that came out of I don't know just didn't really not knowing when I like I said that I I didn't really know how to do anything else you know there was no group to go to there was no you know I don't know I don't know the little life that didn't consist of no one were to be at what time really bad and saw some really bad things happen to the people I care about the two people that I was closest to in the program are dead today you know both from overdoses I think that I walked around for a long time after leaving their like sort of feeling like I had the secret disease in my head that was like a time bomb ready to explode at any minute either you're a part of the group or you're raging drug addict right then that's it it's that black and white yeah you can't go out of here you're incapable right of going out of here and having a successful and and I believed that at least for my actions I think at the time I went through that it from an action perspective eventually I got to a place though where I did start realizing you know what I'm not all these things that I've been told yeah I'm involved in recovery today and I I have to do it an incredible amount of work to unwire that thinking it's been told to me that I was told at a very young age that it's okay to be immature it's okay to do whatever you want and I can remember saying that all the time I do what or I want to do and then the reaction and then care about people's reactions after the group but I still behave that way I took that into my 30s you know and it's been seriously and not until I got in serious trouble with you know the state of Missouri in the law and had to be sat down and told how out there my thinking is and how the way that I approach things simple conversation is just unlike anything that they've seen was sent to a 120-day behavior modification drug and alcohol treatment in the Department of Corrections with a really good woman who has her master's degree in counseling and she's a social worker and cognitive thinking behavioral therapist and all that and she's the one that really sat me down and basically told me that if I don't do something about the way about my thinking in about the way that I live the way that I interact with other human beings that I'm gonna most likely die in my addiction you know and I couldn't believe that because I thought it was you know once I sobered up a little bit I wasn't getting this group I mean when these slick-ass counselors and walk right through it like I had other rehabs that I checked myself into and I got out and I just felt differently I you know I was healthy and I wanted to eat I wanted to take a shower you know because I remember being in the group being very scared of people always touching other men always touching me you know that's kind of why I'm here today is this is my opportunity to respond to the things that happened to me you know to say didn't know that I wasn't alright you know so I can move on you know and I can do what's best for me and do is best for my family and be sober if it took me a while to just be comfortable with like not only can I make the decision but I'm capable of making a good one you know I can think this through and come up with what the the best decision is and there will actually be a good you know outcome right and that took me a long time because you're basically I mean they all almost remember do you remember they would say like your decisions are what got you here so let us make the decisions for your grand thing right and that that mentality in general and when I say this to this says this is not a shot on God or religion or spirituality or however whatever you adhere to but we were told you know you can't even make a decision without without God or this and that you know and the truth is we had there's there's millions of people that walk around this world all day that are atheist they don't believe in God or agnostic they don't believe in God they make decisions every day they live their life every single day and they make good decisions and they love their kids and they love their wife and they treat people well intuitively and so I don't remember when that when I woke up when I had that epiphany but one day I did and I swear to you that was one of the greatest moments of my life when I finally realized I can actually make a good decision on my own without having to talk to somebody else and I had so many kids when I was on staff that would say you're brainwashing us and I remember a lot of the comebacks were then your brain needs to be washed it's uh I hate using the word cult you know because there's so many stigmas attached to that word you know I mean was it the Branch Davidian no you know what I mean but was it something that was unhealthy that mind control was used in order to keep you a part of it absolutely they're gypsies as far as I'm concerned you know I've watched these people moved from California to Texas to Missouri to Atlanta it seems like every time they get in trouble they move you know you get in trouble soon as they get on the radar of the district attorney or the law of law enforcement they're gone and they have run all the way across this country using recovery the tools of recovery or their own idea of what tools of recovery are supposed to be in order to make money it's a scam it's it's it's it's a hard pitch you know a very hard pitch you know when you come in there it's if they bowl you over like almost like a used car salesman how they slam you with all this information and it's Jesus look at what they're saying we're going to help your son we're going to make your son's life that are the love of your life we're going to make yourself your child's life better scour a bunch of coward man people were abused at a very young age I really wish they would step up and all these people are accountable for what they did it's just not too late and it's not too long ago a lot of people say it's a cult do you think it's a cult absolutely what well I mean just not even in a in a figurative sense by definition it meets every criteria like to the tea I'll never argue the principles and those steps and all those things that that that group tried to teach but they didn't make that up right those aren't those are separate things from what was going on in that group all of those those things are good things for your life and so I'll be honest with you despite whether I think I'm an alcoholic or not I still sit find myself using some of those things that I learned but now in my you know in my life now and just transposing it onto just being a human being I'm not labeling myself I'm not this I'm not that to me that that to me that was half the problem is that people convinced themselves that they can't do anything on their own the point I want to make is this I think the people on the side of this that don't agree with you doing this are going to try to make this seem like it's a bash session that this is a documentary made to hate on something of your past to try to absolve yourself from oven I disagree with that at least for me for me the group was a double-edged sword it was but this is like anything in life you know your greatest defect is your greatest asset kind of situation this is what it was for me yes it there was some situations that that I'm not real excited about that happen to me then and I didn't like being taken advantage of I don't think anybody does but at the same time some of the greatest friends I'll ever meet in my life I've still have 20 years later and I probably will have 20 years from now but I take that away from the group I don't give the group that credit I don't give insight that credit I give all of us as individuals sitting around you know being a part of that that credit and so I think that's that would be my parting you know statement to your documentary is that life is life and and hopefully this can maybe shed some light for parents to at least do a little more research when their kids have problems look into the people that are helping your kids because you want to make sure one you want to make sure they really need help and if they do you want to make sure they're getting the help they really need possible hey Clinton saw Jake Mackin dollar um hey I wanted to reach out to you as you know I'm making this documentary I'm kind of about my the other years that I spent as part of the group [Music] [Music] you [Music]

Channel: The Group - A Documentary

Views: 1,343,957

Rating: 4.758121 out of 5

Keywords: the group, documentary, drug abuse, cult, cult documentary, bob meehan, clint stonebraker, crossroads, atlanta insight, pathways, cornerstone, brainwashing, full documentary, teenagers, insight

Id: BXBLYEeF5vs

Length: 95min 51sec (5751 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 15 2015

Reddit Comments

[u/Drewskidude325]

Is this what that cult from that episode of Boy Meets World was based on.

[u/charming-charmander]

Holy shit. I did not know this documentary existed. I was in one of these groups. One of the guys caught on hidden camera was my counselor! I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but the first little bit is very accurate. In fact, if I do speak of it anymore I refer to the as "the cult I was in". Crazy! It was extremely cultish

[u/NewCarton]

Yo I was in this place, I am still sober and clean today but this place was wild, I found much more solid recovery in AA

[u/Readalie]

I think I listened to a podcast about these guys. Creepy stuff.

[u/kolaloka]

Oh wow, these folks took some of my friends in the 90s

[u/Ilovemytoyota]

I hit a rough patch when I was 19/20 (putting it mildly) and I was sent for a year to a program just like this. Insane, surreal, and certainly a cult. They hide behind Jesus’ name to avoid taxes and transparency. It’s a clever cloak to hide the ethical violations of a “non-profit” (501c3)

[u/DonBoone]

Is this "The Group" from Boy Meets World? Anyone? Anyone?

[u/jhwn8c480]

Wait...is this “group” called crossroads?

I wasn’t friends with them, but a ton of kids who were into drugs in late middle school/early highschool ended up going to a thing called crossroads.

(I haven’t watched the whole thing...obviously)

[u/Retireegeorge]

Scientology uses recovery from addiction as a way to snatch people’s punani too. It must be a prime way to grab recruits from a cult.