"The enlightened mind understands that nothing exists but its own joyous nature" - Byron K. (Full)

when you understand the universe is friendly it's there's something better that's the law Byron Katie judge-your-neighbor write it down ask for questions turn it around in 1986 at the bottom of a 10-year spiral into depression rage and self-loathing Byron Katie woke up one morning to a state of constant joy that has never left her she realized that when she believed her stressful thoughts she suffered but that when she questioned them she didn't suffer and that this is true for every human being her simple yet powerful process of inquiry is called the work the work consists of four questions and the turnarounds which are a way of experiencing the opposite of what you believe when you question us all you see around it to the choices beyond suffering Katie has been bringing the work to millions of people for more than 30 years her public events weekend workshops five-day intensives nine days school for the work and 28 day residential turnaround house have brought freedom to people all over the world Byron Katie's books include the best-selling loving what is I need your love is that true a thousand names for joy and a mind at home with itself for more information visit the were calm so looking forward to my conversation with Byron Katie stay tuned Oh Katie for those people who are not familiar with you and your process please define what the work is and how in 1986 it found you well identifying the cause of all of our suffering is a worthy cause and what we're thinking and believing is the cause of all suffering and discontent disagreement war basically the opposite of peace so the work as a way to identify the cause of all suffering it's way to identify what we're thinking and believing anytime we are in an argument with someone that doesn't say arguments aren't healthy that's not it but we don't like losing them either we're in an argument where we're angry or we're a home alone and something hits our head but it's a way of and and and it upsets us we're guilt-ridden etc and then addictions kick in fertile ground for addiction so the work is a way to take care of that it's a way to identify what we're thinking and believing and those times of stress identify them put them on paper that is the mind stopped and then we can question them using these four simple questions and what I call just just trying on like a new pair of shoes opposites just to see how it sits and and so that's the work if it weren't so simple it never would have found me I never would have moment noticed on that floor and you asked about how did the work to find me after more than a decade of just debilitating depression and suicidal and so what agoraphobic it was terrifying sometimes just to leave my bedroom or less my house so one day as I lay sleeping on the floor because I didn't believe I even deserve to bed to sleep in so one morning as I lay sleeping on the floor actually above my foot and and I opened my eyes and in place of all that suffering was an experience that to this day I can't describe all the pain was gone and I saw in that moment it was that moment I woke up you know startled and then the ego did not have a chance to fill in that gap there was just a kind of stillness and in that stillness everything became of yes the cause of my entire life and and all the suffering involved and I began to laugh it was like that was the first sound that came out of it just laughter and because it's like I got the joke and why didn't someone tell me and then from then on word of mouth people have been invited me to share the work with them all over the world so let's let's let's do let's look at the four questions the first one is is it true you know for example he doesn't care about late about me maybe someone said something to hurt my feelings and and I had the thought he doesn't care about me and the first question would be is it true he doesn't care about me and so we we just meditate in that we contemplate it rather than just believe it you know to let it allow it to enter the question mark and get still in it and just be in that situation and your mind side when it happens he doesn't care about me is it true then the second question is can I really know that it's true he doesn't care about me and to contemplate that and they're only four questions and that's two of them the first two and the answer is either yes or no it's not well to get the done you know that's a discussion this takes quietness mindfulness you know to sit and the cause of suffering and get it squared away so the answer is yes or no and if if you see it's true and you've really considered it then no is the right answer if it's yes then yes is the right answer because you're only dealing with you we're not trying to prove anything to the world this is this is personal work then the third question notice like and I'll put it here on the notice to notice with my eyes closed just sitting how I reacted what happened when I believe the thought so I get really quiet and I get in touch with the emotions that happen when I believe the thought he doesn't care about me and then and then maybe I felt tears come to my eyes or maybe it was it was anger maybe it was rage what did I say or do that was that was unkind to that human being just to sit in it and and notice the tendencies of the shoulders to get stiff the stomach to they had images of past future that happen in our heads and we're witnessing the cause of this suffering that person does not have the power to hurt me what I discover as I sit in that all of us is what I'm thinking and believing in that situation it was the cause of my suffering and then the last question who would I be what would I be without the thought he doesn't care about me as he's speaking now I can listen you know I can close my eyes I can be there now it's in the past so I'm safe you know it was probably emotion who would I be what would I be without the thought he doesn't care about me in that situation listening I see a very troubled human being because I'm really on sitting and a real experienced compassionate I'd be more compassionate understanding listening and he's saying something right now that it as it turns out he was right so I may want to go back and admit it to him and apologize and make it right and start over so I can feel right within myself and then the guilt gone and there goes the alcoholism there goes the the eating disorder there goes the anger there goes the so this this these four questions there there's something to travel with and and I don't call it the work for nothing it is it's a it's it's a life's process and then the work has four questions and turnarounds so he doesn't care about me turned around I'm gonna find an opposite he does care about me and the ego could go no way just talking about that moment in time when I was okay gonna go back again he he does care about okay now I need to get still it's only enough to see him in my mind's eye and listen to his words he does care about me no I'm going to try that on like I'm in the shoe store and I see these great shoes but I'm not gonna buy him I say don't sit I did that's good I'm not gonna pay yeah okay so he does care about me I'm gonna try that on and I'm not moving negative thoughts to positive affirmations you know the ego will eventually just take care of those they're kinder but I've trying to dawn and then another turnaround he doesn't care about me I don't care about him I can see in that situation how uncaring I was I've already seen it through that witnessing how I react on I believe they thought okay so then I sit in that a lot of tears can come you know we're sitting and and in what people refer to as self realization yes to realize this self he does care about me so the original he doesn't care about me he doesn't care about me I don't care about me okay where is it that I wasn't that I wasn't caring that I wasn't thoughtful that my mind was closed and that will show me other areas of my life as well this where it just does being really real with yourself oh also keeps coming his wife seen her own gods you just sit here traveling through the cause of suffering in your life and once you understand that it's what you were thinking and believing in any given situation yes and you can go back and sit in it do these questions you know it's it's like we start rising like the phoenix looks like we come out of some kind of tomb and and i did come out of some kind of tomb and if i can do it if i can do this work anyone can do it but to take this experience of all this suffering you went through for so long to have this epiphany in such a it at the every rope so to speak you're in a halfway house alone to a point you checked yourself in if i'm correct and then just have this massive aha moment to get it all as you say in one instant practically and and to just never slip back it was a profound experience undeniable yeah I saw I saw there's nothing I could think or do to move me from that place yeah once life makes sense to you life makes sense yes we could say the cause of all suffering so it's moving from mine which takes a position to a mind that is free of a position right yeah well you know it's it's the position it's unnecessary because it always shows up when the mind understands itself it understands what I see as this beautiful world yes how did as you transform the positions within your own mind how did your outer reality describe to me how your external reality changed did your family and your friends or career all of a sudden my I understood my children and and I fell in and I experienced a kind of love that I can't describe and and my husband at the time and and the house I was living in and the streets and I was able to walk out of the house and I was able to to you know really the word you know I don't know how people define the word love but to love the human race and that is something that has again lasted decades now to understand to understand the world is to love the world it's what we're thinking and believing about the world that could use a little work you know Einstein said there's only one important question to answer and that is is the universe friendly well you know I'm still testing it and it's still proving itself out to be a friendly universe and you know a lot of people would argue that and come up with their proof and that's their world and I'm I'm very thorough yes when it comes to inquiry so I'm not a skeptic and so far yes a friendly universe funny story yes please I was in San Quentin it's a maximum men's prison and I have a program running there and and for several years now but one man stood up and he well he raised his hand and and and I called on him and he said they threw me in the hole and someone had left loving what is there and it changed my life you know it's so and you know this guy's a lifer and he's got his life back and it's and you know so I throw a few of those books down in the hole for for people who are you know down in the hole and of depression I can see how the work applies to I just had an argument with my boyfriend when I'm nervous about money and have a health concern huge life stuff okay sure and then when I think of when you think of movements that where I'm thinking of your statement when you said I'm a realist I'm going from that I was think of would the great movements like the abolitionists the suffragettes the civil rights happened if people just said they're realist and they have to just accept what is and not do anything I know you're not saying that but that keeps coming up so can you help me well understand I don't know what a realist is either okay you know I for me what that means is I'm sitting here in this chair with you yes so if that's a realist I'm a real yes but if there is if there is a wrong in the world or you know wrong is really someone that just doesn't agree with us that's a different idea but let's say someone was walking by on the street and they fell down I'm going to be the first to move I'm not going to look at what color are they filthy dirty like the homeless people that are becoming more and more and more a part of our society you know there's something off there but I am you know freed is three to two to change what you can with out living fearfully which is the very thing that still says you know like there's a well let's say he you can smell them a mile away and a felon oh I'll get my hands dirty oh you know I'm on way too you know when we're believing that then how how can we write the wrong okay that's yes so the people who do not are not guilty they're fearful so you don't that leave someone of right minds if they would name maybe later compassionate caring kind or maybe stupid or whatever yeah but but I have to live with me yes and I'm not okay leaving another human exam and a position of suffering if I have an opportunity to help and fear you know I I moved to a fluidly without a plan because there's no fear to stop me I mean if that's me falling and you know I was I was so you know not a right mind that if someone tried to help me it you know in some way it would hurt me because I was my self-esteem was so low I wouldn't want them to be infected or even seen me I didn't want to hurt people two hundred pounds and that's why I do this work you know I don't want anyone to suffer and the clearer we get the kind of we become as human beings and the the that's fearful yeah we are and and the more able we are to shift the things that we that we really want to shift like you know it doesn't matter what the science says I don't believe it well that's not my fault if I'm that human being if I look at what I'm thinking and believe him how could I be leave it so it's mental health first and then we're free to to live a little more intelligently and rather than to continue to choke ourselves to death on what we're actually that circle coming around as we live let me ask you this if a subconscious mind dictates how we are in our external reality how does the work affect the subconscious mind in order to change negative patterns well if I if you know I don't you know if I see a negative pattern in myself I want to code that you know I want to look back even if it says let's say I pick up something and I and I put it in my mouth you know something out of the refrigerator that I just know that's not good for me I just know that so let's say I do that and and I act on it that's okay with me right but what was I if I feel any guilt whatsoever what was I thinking and believing just prior to going to the refrigerator seeking that item out and ingesting it so so what was I thinking and believing so I that takes me back always to a situation where I feel a little rub there of guilt or maybe major guilt it doesn't matter if it's a gray sandor a boulder the cause of that guilt was the cause of the poor choice I made and in other words the unhealthy choice cause and effect effect yeah so so this work is about going back to those situations where we feel a little guilty it doesn't matter if that person deserved it or not you know it was I unconscious I hurtful was I uncaring so I go back and I capture on paper the thoughts I was thinking and believing and and then I I sit and meditate and those four questions and turn around then again to do this but then I'm grateful for what I did the refridgerator episode escapade you know it's like that also was the push don't they the clearer our minds the kinder the more intelligence our our patterns and choices why is it important to demystify the term enlightenment you say quote people think that enlightenment must be some kind of mystical transcendent experience but it's not it's as close to you as your own most troubling thought so enlighten meant is if I'm heavy depressed and you know I mean don't you want to be a little lighter so we just question what we're believing in those times when we were depressed or are depressed and we become lighter in in lighten meant in just another way for me to say can't you do the work and you say it's so powerful where you say let me read another quote no one has ever attained enlightenment enlightenment is not a thing this is your quote it's a figment of the imagination it happens in a past that doesn't exist are you enlightened to your own stressful thinking right now that's the only enlightenment that matters I love that I do too mic drop boom yeah it's just like I'm in lying you know how enlightened is that you know I and then there's you that's not very enlightened and you know in enlightenment to me it's just just freedom yes it's a way of being free but but then and I'm so enlightened you know if that doesn't end in a question mark then Wow you know for me it all ends in a question because it's like you to be enlightened to the cause of suffering gives us all a way you know our own way out yes and we are a greatest teacher because the answers to these questions are coming from within us which I see the entire world is enlightened it's just what we're thinking and believing override that enlightenment it takes up all the space and it's all fake news when we're depressed or angry and then what comes through me as a benefit to just following the simple direction is just crazy it just it's it's like pure intelligence just running uninterrupted joy why are we not free until our forgiveness is complete it's you know so we're free a lot because we're not always aware of what we're not always feeling guilty yeah so we are free of guilt but once a situation arises where I have harmed another human being or even myself yes which it's really both if I harmed you and that's in my opinion not to the world if I have said or done something that I deem unkind maybe you it wasn't I oh I oh it's off to work I go so I just you know something that was really to please you it wasn't authentic I apologize for that now let's you know would you ask the question again and and let's see if I can do better I mean that's just an example of I wouldn't hesitate to stop it doesn't matter who's witnessing that say an interview or Anytime Anywhere just keeping it right keeping it right with one's own self I mean after all who am I going to please right so that's where so because forgiveness is so is so such a big idea concept in your work too and we're not really free until our forgiveness is complete but it's forgiving ourselves ultimately like in you know in the long run I mean isn't that what it's about when I forgive you I'm free that is what it's all about yes yep because you or me yeah there's no separateness yeah it's like I I I judge you on paper I question what I believe and then chances are you know I owe you so it's a favorite question that I ask of certain interviewees like yourself who embody these traits Katie you have a marvelous sense of wonder curiosity and all clearly all has been found to expand our perception of time enhance our well-being make us more generous boost our immune system can you talk to me about your admirable sense of wonder curiosity and all why these are needed when healing our bodies from our suffering as well as needed in today's world so you know without a future you know we hear people talk about living in the now mm-hmm which would be if I'm out of the past and out of the future well we all are we're mentally living in the past or mentally living in the future but those are real that's pure imagination so we're always here now and and so if I'm not if I see the me of the past or the me of the future in my mind's eye That's not me that's an illusion like Who am I that there can't be three of me or there eighteen over here and 30 over here you know you know no wonder I feel lonely I'm everywhere but here and and I am stuck in this dream in this dream and it can be everything from a nightmare to uh to uh to mild her you know I'm watching that it's scary you want a little guilt and shame get a past you want so you know just just know who am i and it's here now so without this illusion and this illusion I don't know the future and let's just say well no one does we can think it believe it and maybe we're right but we can't know so that's the privilege of living in the present you don't know and you remain like I'm 70 I'm 77 in a couple of months and and I it's okay I have the curiosity of a child when I was like three four or five years old no and in that everything is beautiful because I have nothing to believe on to it it's like I can believe on to it but don't know I'm look I'm seeing it I'm letting it show me rather than me telling me what it is I'm letting it show me this this beautiful world this beautiful world if if if someone says I'm gonna cut your head off with this sword you know so far so good my head's not gone yet and I don't know and let's say that person does you know he starts swinging it like that this is pretty radical but well we'll just say I'm me so I'm good until I'm not and and but if he says it I think oh my god is good because I see a future of my head already cut off I'm seeing the blood I'm seeing so is he frightening me or is it what I'm thinking and believing that is frightening me so if I don't if I am awake to the difference between reality and imagination then I don't miss the last few minutes or seconds of what could be my life that's crazy and also don't you want to do you want to miss the end I mean you know this person of all people but you know we're just like oh my gosh I mean the curiosity that runs I mean who wants to miss it and and death like life is just as imagined equally so we another way of saying that is is you know we are who we believe ourselves to be so if I didn't believe you know who a marvelous time and life together I'll take it in my world there's no mistake in this is something that is kinder than I am there is something that knows more than I do and I refer to that as this world you know until we love what is we live as frightened people yes but in my world in my earth it's it's a I don't have to do anything it's all being done it's just do I love it yet and if I don't you know do I have four questions for me not to hypnotize me or to fool me or two to talk myself into it but the real deal because those questions the answers that meet them if if they're not authentic this work doesn't work because we're not doing when you understand the universe is friendly it's there's something better that's the law and and and I'm still living that out I don't advise other people to because you know these things come when you get sane not crazy what's what looks crazy is kind and good and sane and it's you know and there's timing for everything we're not guessing should I shouldn't die it's it's just living honestly out of the moment and what's best for those people that is what's best for all of us because there are happier human beings and I don't need a house to be happy happiness it's a state of mind so I care just you know you are who I believe you to be so if you're frightened you're what's left of me and so I'm here to to pass on a gift it doesn't mean you'll use it or that you're even interested it's just that I'm here and that's certainly not personal it's a state of mind you know I see people in the world and it's you know what they're thinking and believing I can see they're perfectly okay and that is that comes from my own experience other than what I'm thinking and believing I'm okay but that doesn't slow me down from how can I help because I understand the illusion yes okay and I know this is what you're doing with the work and the school that you have and all the touring and the speaking and the books and the lectures and educating that you're doing but we we just just we need this so much in our world today and that's why I thought if only children could be this could be a required course in school have a little book tiger tiger is it true and children love that well you also had said that when you work with children and this is before you had you opened the school for the work I believe that they just came to the work the work and inquiry so natural oh they're just oh they'll say things like oh well why didn't someone tell me it was so simple that's why tiger tiger works so well because it's on questioning what they're believing is living like in the closet or under their bed that's that's all we're really doing we're questioning the apparent boogeyman in our life and finding freedom from within which is catches us up to the without finding freedom from within so that we can thrive in our life our lives and kids are just much more in touch with that as you're saying right there they haven't believed they have they haven't had in the illusion of time they they haven't believed like they're not just concrete yet in some ways yes but you know we don't get older where we just are impacting identity yes turn either then to like rock great stone yeah Katie what I love about how you facilitate the work for people is that you're able to and I've seen many of your interviews besides being lucky enough to have you facilitate as you say the work with me what I love about how you facilitate the work for people is that you're able to without pity demonstrate great compassion since you see everyone is free this can be taken as harsh to those who are used to pitying themselves and others as you've said and I just think it's something that that we need and is a wonderful way to help people get to see themselves and to get to the the nut of it what do you think about this question what is the truth the truth we are living in a time right now where this camp claims their positions are what's true and then that camp claims that their positions are true false fake news I mean do you have anything to do just just you know get right in yourself what are your values and the more inquiry we do the kind of person where we are that we're being introduced to each time but to be right with ourselves and show up at the ballot box and vote our conscience why do we have to vote it's okay to vote that's a part of it but to be to be aware as we can possibly be as we research you know the values that the person we are put in office but you know we all hold different values so you know basically what I love about democracy is we get to see who we are as a people yes and when someone interferes in election then you know what do we do about that just don't see a way out other than just be right with ourselves as informed as we can be and to show up and vote our conscience and yeah what else what else can we do to be right with ourselves it reminds me of what you've said before if I'm upset at the reality of all of the wars that are going on start then with you know write it do the work and see where am I at war with myself yeah just so big if I personally am voting against someone it's really it's it's fabulous to look at those traits in that person and see how closely they match my own and to take care of that and because that is the only way we can change the world right you know to live those values out in our own that's powerful if as you've stated the work is the how people can end their own suffering why do we so easily slip back to our suffering time and again well the Eagles in control and that's its job so just expect it and then do the work yeah or not yeah no one this is not something people have to do it's just one of the one of the beautiful options out there and it was shown to me clearly and of course I am I invite everyone to experience it and of course we do where we don't yes absolutely no it's very clear you're not saying that that someone has to do this but I mean it's it's certainly a wonderful the work works when our minds open to it and that's the key and open mind yes so as you have said the external is the internal projected how true when I now this is me when I've cleared myself up from the inside I certainly have a glow to my skin speaking woman to woman and through my eyes that is the inner shine projected externally the best facial ever Katy just wanted to say that I thought we could you know there are a few perks to this word good skin yeah Katie thank you so much you know that good skin thing yeah I've never quite looked at it that way but what I what I can say is I when I when I look in the mirror I love what I see and it's ageless to me without comparison always ageless always okay with myself and that's what I invite the world to that possibility as a reality thank you thank thank you so much for your time appreciate it my privilege

Channel: Claudia Mason

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Id: kdOwtvMH2K4

Length: 41min 58sec (2518 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 05 2019