"The "Apostle" David Taylor Deposition Highlights

we are now on the record this is the videotape deposition of david e taylor aka the apostle today's date is february 10 2015. the time is now 10 41 a.m by the night houselander technician this deposition is being taken at 2055 orchard lake road southern lake michigan 48320 in the case of deborah ann frazier versus ricky allen fraser case number 2010-7 in the oakland county family division could the attorneys please briefly identify themselves for the record david sure i'm dave potts i represent the uh witness dave taylor councils are my only clients callie nor nain appear on behalf of rick frazier who's to my left uh gregory utuma also represented rick frazier could the court reporter please smear them might have you raise your right answer do you solemnly swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so i'll help you yes thank you i have a preliminary matter if i just make this statement the court rendered an opinion an order regarding a motion dealing with a question of a privilege that was raised during the november 12th deposition the court entered an order on january 28th requiring that the matter be held in the courthouse pursuant to agreement of counsel and pursuant to notice the deposition is being held in plaintiff council's office certainly with my permission and with my concurrence but just so that the record is correct this is an agreed upon relocation of the venue and we've done this by consent that is correct although if we run into a problem i reserve the right to have it relocated to um the courthouse you understand you're in agreement with that yes okay and that we've agreed that we are going to rather liberally just get this deposition done and um i understand that we're going to adhere to the opinion which may be on a question-by-question basis when it comes to spiritual matters but in a cooperative way and if necessary we'll seek the guidance of the court yes it's my intention to try and live within the scope of the opinion i've read it we've had an opportunity to discuss it it's clear that the court's trying to give us some direction and guidance but it may be that on a case-to-case basis we'll have to see where we go but it's my intention to be more cooperative than less and to try to read it as expansively but as narrowly as i can that makes a quandary but i think we know each other well enough that we're not going to make a fight where we don't have to have one exactly okay um mr taylor you were here for a deposition see what the date of that was what was it november 12th and we ran out of time and uh rescheduled it for today uh ultimately through court order and i'd like to clear up a couple of the things that you said at the november 12th deposition okay who lives with you at 2008 victory lane no one no one lives with you there no other than my son well i mean he counts okay yeah who whoever the human being is yes my son and who's your son joshua taylor and what's his date of birth um the 12th 21st and uh it's 2 000. and i mean 1999 i'm sorry and who is his mother uh tabitha taylor now you have older children is that right uh no oh yeah oh yeah my daughter destiny taylor yeah and her mother is tabitha you have to answer yes or no yes okay so um do you have full custody of of joshua uh we have joined well i think they give her the what did what did the courts say on the um pastoral custody where i don't know the terminology for but i know that i have um she keeps them half of the week and then i keep them when you say them who are you referring to joshua destiny is destiny an adult uh yeah now she is she just turned 18 this i mean january okay so is uh tabitha taylor the primary custodian yeah the children is that the terminology well i'm supplying some i don't know what it is where you got divorced what language they use yeah i don't um but you believe you have 50 50 parenting time uh yes and you pay support yes how much do you pay 750 a month month okay um you indicated that when you're in st louis you sleep at two houses two different places one is the victory lane that you rent that's a rental you have to answer yes yes okay and one was um where jama my rents at and i'm not sure how to uh pronounce the name of the street tim page yeah timpage timpage um how much time do you spend at one versus the other um i'm not sure i know that we just you know the ministry just acquired that ministry residence now a little over a year and so we were preparing things over there so i spent more time this past little year of helping that but the majority of my time usually is at the apartment which is my main residence that's my residence so you're saying that the temperature house what do you call that within jam of mine a ministry residence residential center okay residential center yes and what what do you and you purchase this yes the ministry the ministry the history right the ministry and uh you use that as a residential center yes and so when you're saying you had to fix it up what were you doing to it well i mean moving in and that kind of thing moving what in you know just possessions of the ministry stuff like that then when you move in a new place you take things in but people sleep there uh not necessarily on a regular basis uh if i have um uh guests who may come out of town they may come and i may take them over there for um dinner or something like that and may they sleep there also yes they have been able to do that but usually i have a hotel for them and debbie frazier has slept there no debbie frazier has been there hasn't she yes staff has been there yeah it's a ministry center you've had barbecues and pool parties at that house yes for the ministry for staff yeah for staff do you consider debbie frazier staff yes she has been on the staff in our ministry what is her title um there is no title we don't give titles too she doesn't have a any kind of reference to what her well what's her job description um she's basically a volunteer staff like most of the other people and they just they help in any area where they can't where they're axed so there's no title so to be considered on staff how much time do you have to spend volunteering well that's flexible according to each person how much time they can give because it's a volunteer staff i understand that but as opposed to somebody who occasionally volunteers as opposed to someone who gets the the title of being on staff um we don't have no distinctions like that the only thing is anytime the person can volunteer for the ministry then that's you know that's their contribution as a volunteer that's what volunteer means to to voluntarily use their free time to work so is every single person who volunteers in any manner considered on staff not necessarily they have to come and say well we would like to be a part of the intrical uh the bigger workings of the ministry that's what i'm talking about okay so what do you can you rephrase it or make it plainer so i can understand all right so she debbie frazier is considered on staff yeah okay and so to have become on staff she would have to come and ask to be an integral part of the ministry yes and it doesn't matter whether she could participate once every three months or daily right okay does she have any specific functions locally in taylor [Music] well anything that she's probably told to do um like the other volunteers that or that can be done through her yes you know that would be appropriate so tell me some things debbie does for the ministry uh the only thing that i'm aware of uh that she does is more so ushering or you know being hospitable to the people as they come into the doors but she goes to the taylor uh location almost daily yes so what you don't have let me just say you don't have daily things uh where she would be ushering at that no no no of course not so those are that would be more behind the scenes work all right what is it behind the scenes i really can't tell you i honestly don't know you have no idea no because i have other staff who they are running that part of the ministry and they give orders to whatever volunteers come in and tell them what they should do who's in charge of that michelle brannon both in michigan and in yes st louis yes so how much time does michelle spend in michigan um not that much most of it is in st louis um our michigan base is like a a jason base or you would call a um a remote location you know that we are doing business out of too but um her main time is spent in st louis so who is in taylor on a daily or weekly basis directing debbie frazier with what work should be done um like i say michelle brennan is the one over that she the one that gives the orders allowed to oversee that part of it as well even though she's not here right she can call by phone from st louis and to do that and what kind of work happens at the taylor location what what happens there you've got an office there yes offices so what what do you what kind of work do you do there well uh now were you saying doing ministry time or behind the scene time well what kind of work would debbie frazier be going there to do on a daily or weekly basis um like i say i think that would be better answered by the person that i have over it because i'm not involved in all the intricate details of those things you don't know what debbie frazier does there no i really don't other than i know i've seen her doing the services when she ushers and do things i'm not really talking about services because that's really what well that's the time that i see you know because i'm basically in most of the time and out all right can you give an estimate as the number of times you have seen or not ushering but personally seen or interacted with debbie frazier um it's very rare it's usually in passing very sporadically in a service or something like that aside from an actual service describe your contact with debbie frazier well i really don't have any contact with her like that at all other than if i pass and see her among all the staff and i say hello to all of them and it's that's basically it so you you never uh minister to her uh what do you mean minister meet with her no of course not no oh why do you say of course not no because you're saying do i ever meet with her right that no i don't well for example a minister someone may come to a minister or pastor or someone they perceive to be a minister or pastor with their troubles or concerns oh acts for console that's what you're saying is that what you're referring to right uh no i don't actually i have people set up to do that right and who are those people uh michelle brannon is really the key she sounds like she does everything not everything but she's really the executive in the ministry that helps keep the administrative order who else besides you know i said she does everything and you you kind of laughed and said no not everything so who who fills in what michelle doesn't do well don't understand how to share this with you other than that i have one point person who administrates the staff or the volunteer group of people and they give out the orders and she has a um a staff conference call every tuesday and she gives out the orders that way so you know it may look that it's difficult for her to do but really with technology it's it's simplified so your right hand person then is michelle yes all right and besides michelle who is the next person you rely on the most well she stepped mostly only one at this time so you don't have any contact with any other staff to delegate responsibilities or jobs well that's that was the point of making her the executive to take on all that for me so you don't you don't have contact with other staff it's not that i don't have contact i don't i don't think it's the kind of content you are referring to well differentiate them for me well the kind of contact i think you're referring to is if i'm sitting with them giving them orders like that and i i don't actually because i'm so busy honestly and tired a lot of times so this is why i hired michelle to come in and to be the executive and i trained her so she could what are you you said you're so busy what are you so busy with traveling itinerary what do you mean ministering traveling different places preaching the gospel can you tell me places you traveled last year yeah um north carolina [Music] virginia california [Music] ohio um florida west palm beach um so the other place is um i i so many places i don't remember all of them but these are just some of the places i remember out of the country uh last year i i stopped my uh international travel to work on tv ministry but you stopped what did i miss hundreds yeah i postponed uh my international travel so that i could um well i was supposed to pick up at the end of last year but we were doing a tv um lunching so i needed to stay in the states for that the tv launching the answer yesterday yes and what does that mean uh tv ministry uh a national tv broadcast but the year before that you know um in all the years before that i did all the international travel and so i had the pulse for most of the international travel to this year back to this year again and when you did travel internationally where did you go korea jamaica i mean not jamaica i'm sorry the bahamas [Music] to budapest hungary um to um those were i think i spent the majority of my time in korea last year uh back and forth there so when you go there do you take other people from gmi yes who goes with you um michelle goes it depends on who i choose to go or who she would choose to go for so michelle went um joseph pastor joseph goes how do you spell his name j-o-s-e-p-h who is he what's his last name uh bush b-u m-hmm and then i allow other constituents beside this administrative group like if they want to go on a ministry trip and of course debbie went on one of those trips and a few other people went and which one did debbie go on uh korea and when there are these trips who pays their way normally our ministry take care of it but the that's for the administrative but people who want a volunteering goal they pay their own way so debbie paid her own way uh i think so yeah so when you're in these um stateside locations do you rent or lease out a church to preach out of no i'm invited by leaders in different cities and countries so who would be a leader in korea that would invite you um it's a number i was with the presbyterian um leaders there i don't remember their names and i was with kim kim apostle kim how do you spell that um k-i-m who who is that um she is a a leader over there that's pioneered in korea for a long time do you mean they live in the states a leader a pastor just a pastor she's a pastor over there so when you go there do they pay your way yes they actually they um well i pay my own way to get over there but they they support the ministry what does that mean they support the ministry they give finances or whatever else support that we need the place to stay hotels so they pay for that we actually pay for it ourselves but they reimburse or they'll give a donation that will cover that expense for us would that be chim c-h-i-m kim yeah jenny kim jenny jenny kim c-h-i-m kim oh okay jim kim yeah yeah is that who that is i think yeah is that how it is it's been right there yes okay great then that would probably be it okay so the koreans uh donate to your ministry you're saying if the answer is yes all right so when you're stateside for example in florida or west palm beach um are you saying you're just a guest preacher yes and is the goal to get donations no it's to preach the gospel actually and do you ask for donations there um yes we have before and do you receive cash from these areas uh yeah can you name one church you went to in west palm beach um i know um i don't remember the name of the church but the pastor i do pastor ardrick and i can't remember the name of his church so where do you physically spend most of your time um i'm sorry i don't understand what in what state are you most present physically um saint louis and and would second be uh taylor michigan um i wouldn't say that because i'm traveling so much i think most of my time is spent traveling around the nation and different parts of the world all right so you're saying at victory lane the only person that lives with you there is joshua is that correct you have to answer yes yes okay and has anybody else lived with you there in the last three years um no i've had people help me as the ministry got bigger and so i wouldn't say people just live with me but they support it by coming to help me okay i'm not sure what that means well i mean just i may have some staff come over and they may spend the night here there that kind of thing and help me out whatever i need for to get out of town or something like that you describe the victory lane places a very small apartment yeah two bedroom okay so you're saying you have staff that come and spend the night there well they will if they have to if i'm gotta i gotta get out of town the next day and we're taking care of business and things like that so it's it's uh um it's i wouldn't say that they just stay there is there anybody that spends more than two nights in a row there um no what is jmmi's relationship to the property at 11833 south bandridge road in st louis say that again i'm sorry the property at 11833 south bandridge road in st louis you're aware of that property um [Music] i'm not by the address if you give me a little bit more information which one well i'll show you a picture of the house okay i guess it's best called a house yes is that familiar to you oh yeah the ministry that's the ministry is that don't even look like the house there um that don't look like them yeah that's why i'm not acknowledgeable knowledgeable of that jmi yeah listed under them yeah but that we probably use that like um for startup place for um i i can't uh this was uh this is not where we are now i i can't say i don't know what place that is i don't know if that was just um uh that really don't look like the the house that we currently have as a ministry i don't i don't you don't know no i mean that that don't look like the location do you have no more than one ministry house um we have just one that's it other than the residential center that's on 10 page we have one other have you ever had more than one simultaneously with another not really no is um the house at 5209 trail oaks drive blackjack missouri is that yeah this is the one here yeah so are you saying that at some time you may have used the south brandridge home but you don't currently yeah right maybe that's what happened and that's why it looks like that but that is not current this is what i know that the ministry uh rents out in our own name so can you give a time frame for when the south bran ridge road house was used i can't i'm i'm not sure of that all right but is your testimony that it has no relationship to gmail or you at this point no is it your testimony yes no no it doesn't it has no relationship to you now this one on trail oaks that's the one you referred to as the ministry house where you didn't know the address before right is this in a residential area yes it is and do you own this house no we're leasing it you lease and and what happens at this house what's its purpose well i think i shared last time it's a place where i allow those who may be volunteering and they come to the city to want to work for the ministry and so they may not have a place to stay so i'll allow them to stay there if they want um or if they need that um you know maybe one or two people but it's also a place where we have done like in st louis is one of our start-up places until we build the um the facilities that we're saving money for what do you mean startup well like you know a small business starting garages that kind of thing yeah do you hold meetings here no and and this is in a residential uh looks almost like a sub uh subdivision kind of house we have to answer yes yes all right and the subdivision allows you to run a ministry out of that house well uh actually we've talked with them and uh it's not wrong that we are um because we're not doing no kind of big operation and it's just like a startup business like many american companies starting garages here when debbie frazier goes to saint louis does she stay at this residence um not that no not that i know of i'm not positive about that i don't i don't think there's room there for that what do you mean there's not room room to stay there like that i thought you said you allowed people to stay there yeah i said you know if there's room or but i don't think there's room for nothing like that okay so we're sure she may get a hotel when she's in town i don't know but you it would be good if you can ask michelle because she deals with that so what is that place used for what's the residential use for if people don't stay there well i just shared what issues for that it's um you know one of our startup locations uh to help the ministry save money as an overhead until we build what we're going to build there's the global headquarters right so what happens at that residential house people don't stay there you said debbie frazier doesn't stay there i thought it was for volunteers to stay so what do people go to that house to do well uh there are computers there that you know they just do minimum work tasks to organize the ministry or answer phones or stuff like that it's a work center um i wouldn't call it a work center it's more of a start-up place like like a small business you know like a small business that americans do they started saying that but what is it that happens in there is it it's work is that what you're saying it's volunteer work yeah you can do you could say that right so it's like an office almost yeah like a startup it's the same thing of a small american company okay i'm not interested in smalling i'm just telling you yes we have to not talk at the same time okay i'm trying to figure out what the purpose of this location is and your is your testimony that this is an office where people go to work for gmmi yeah i mean the only way i'm trying to explain to you what it is do you understand what a small business is if you don't listen to what i'm saying then you're not this is not a dialogue i ask you questions and you respond i'm answering best you can to answer the question if you don't understand the question yeah but just if you don't understand it that's one thing but you have to answer the question that's asked of you yes just do the best and i'm answering the only way i know to explain to you what we're doing is like a small business out of the garage so now that's an analogy you can tell them do you answer the phones do you greet the creators do you send out mail whatever yeah i just said yeah yeah i do we do minimum office work or answer phones so it's an office i guess if that's what you want to call it i don't know what i want to call it well that's not what we call it so i i can't i can't what do you call it i call it a startup place go to the startup place is that what you say yeah no i don't say that uh i just call it a place where you know we don't have a name for it we just know what we're doing with the place all right when you're talking about somebody being there how do you refer to this location what do you mean go to the office go to uh what do you say what do you refer to this place as um well we surely don't call it an office we just we call it a house you know go to the place go to the place yeah but is there any activity that goes on at that house that is not in essence office work for the ministry no not that i know of no okay so it's an office where people are phone calling doing mail is that what you're saying yeah some of that takes place yes okay and what else takes place that's it that's all i know for that have you been there yes that's why i know what goes on when debbie frazier goes to st louis to do work for the ministry is that where she goes uh she has been there yes where else would she go to do work for the ministry other than this location that's the only place i know she goes for my understanding are there any people that sleep at this house regularly um yes there are people who do sleep there who is that um honestly i don't know those you know know who does there's no idea who sleeps there no so but you can ask michelle she should know those answers do you know how many sleep there no are this is a three bedroom house um actually i really don't know how many bedrooms it is and you don't know who sleeps there on a regular basis no are they uh staff members they would be volunteering yes someone who needs a place to stay does jmi pay in of your auto expenses uh yes and how much auto expenses uh i wouldn't i wouldn't know exactly how much you don't know how much you get no who takes care of that who's the board you can ask michelle she's another person what about your housing does jmi pay any of that yes you get a housing allowance yes and how much is that i'm not sure and do you report these allowances as compensation on your tax return um honestly i don't know how all that work i have other people who does do that so you can refer to michelle on that michelle does your taxes no i have other people do it but she's over a lot of that the financial aspect too so who does your taxes um i some firm i don't know i have a financial um board that michelle runs and they have all that so you can ask her so does she handle your personal finances in addition to jamming my finances yes all of it your personal and jamma mize yes on the november 11 2014 jmmi balance sheet that you produce for your last deposition it lists over a million dollars as an asset labeled collectibles you have to answer yes yes and what are those well those are collectibles that are a donator um who donated over a million dollars in collectibles to the ministry so it it comprises of all these different things that that values to that much what kind of things um old toys you know um stuff like that collectibles you know to old things that people would spend certain amounts of money for was he an antique collector or something uh not an antique i don't remember antiques baseball cards you know that's things like that barbie dolls where are those things located uh they're in st louis where uh in um i thought they were in a storage place they're in a storage place and what's the plan for those oh to liquidate that for the ministry and who's the person that donated that we have an order that he is required to disclose anybody that's over five thousand dollars can i see that yeah but it'll take off go get it yeah what is the objection well first of all it may be it may be privileged it may be somebody else's identification of who they are so the extent that it's public i have no problem it has to be public because it's a missouri size and reported that's one thing if it's not then that's another question i just need to see it it has to be reported with the charity they have to i don't know what it has been so i just when did you receive these um well it's on the 2014. it could be on a p l could be a it could be somehow disclosed being held by another enemy i just need to know what the scope of this is because the kids on their balance sheets on their 990 which are public yeah it's on public documents that the ministry has to file well if they've been filed that's one thing yeah it's on their balance sheet 2014. well they don't have to file their balance yeah they have to file their their financial information with the irs and well there is they it depends it's about certain information which includes donors well i can tell you the november 12 2014 order um covers only individuals who donate less than five thousand dollars well if they're required to file he's required to produce the entity no that's not my objection my objection is if they are required if the ministry is required to file any kind of form state failure otherwise then they have no objection they are all right now i need to see the scope of the order so that it defines what has to be produced because it's just it's automatically decides it wants to order something to be produced doesn't mean that it's appropriate but then the court order is according yeah but it's a court order it is if he has to disclose or jmi has to disclose who their donors are so that's what i'm asking who's the donor well first of all this is the witness he's not jmi okay he for all intents and purposes he's not president and ceo what are you all through that okay we'll allow this because this is the order requires it not to be disseminated no it only i can only not disseminate this information the lesson by defendant until it says this until further over the court period let me read it the whole thing that's not what it says well it says this information referring to the amount of the definition it says that the protective order shall be applicable to govern any and all information uh things that obtained received or regarding individuals who donate less than five you still have to supply it but it will not be disseminated only less than five that's my point so if he's over five it's public information if it's public information it is well i need to know that i need to see that it's reported on the tax returns who their donors are if they're over five yeah i know what a 990 is and i don't represent the entity that's my concern i don't mr polling represents the entity and to the extent that he has an objection on the number is he representing the entity i thought it was just michelle no he's well the order says that the only thing it protects are people that are under 5 000 because they don't have to be named people that are over 5 000 get named the extent that they have been disclosed in a form filed federally then i have no objection that's what that's what happens if you do over five to the extent that they have done that i have no objection if they've been previously required to be reported to the federal government state agency or any reporting agency this protective order only refers to 5 000 and less donors otherwise it's not protected well then the the objection would only be to the extent that these have been previously disclosed and they're there then i have no objection to him well answering the question if he knows the information he i don't know if he has filed 2014 returns but he's going to have to and disclose know that yet i know you've only available with less than five because they don't have to be named or given what i don't want to do i don't want to go back and fight the war that apparently was or was not fought over the disclosure of what i think are irrelevant is irrelevant information but i'm not going to fight that i do want to make sure though is if you ask a question that there's already been a disclosure a public disclosure of a form can be it could be a 990 could be any kind of mandated requirement that he or the entity not he but the entity has to follow because of its charitable status i think it's probably a not-for-profit corporation it files under some sort of terrible designation and they have to listen and they have to file forms if those are filed then i have no objection to the question at all well they're going to be if they haven't so i don't they haven't been then they you know they can't talk about something that that will be that hasn't been done hasn't been published but there's no produce to us a balance sheet they've decided they've produced that yeah i'm not there isn't a basis for your objection it's not privileged it's not subject to a protective order i understand you don't like it but i don't see that it's not and it's relevancy objection then i could let you take it then he's right go ahead and object and let me take the answer will you let me know the continuing relevancy objection form of the question objection or do i have to make it no yes you can i assume they're ongoing soon they're on going yes okay then you can answer the question who's the person that donated let me just form another question response he's not the entity even though he's the officer of the entity so the questions are opposed to him in that capacity he's not the entity is not a party to these proceedings it's not even a witness to these proceedings okay it's a separate entity it's a not-for-profit corporation it has legal status it's a lifeline right what entity he's an individual here pursuant to subpoena who also is the ceo but he's in that capacity we didn't differentiate what his capacity because it didn't well nobody cared i care you may but it hasn't happened so far well i'm carrying and making an objection that he's got the real party to be he's the witness he is a witness the entity can be brought here if it could be or a deposition could be taken or documents produced pursuance to something commonly referred like legislatory in missouri if you want to bring that entity before some sort of body to get orders and get information from them if mr polling were here maybe he would or would not have an objection but he's not the entity even though he may be an officer of it it has separate corporate identity okay all i want to know is if he knows who this person is that gave a million dollars in collectibles you know that's okay if it has been disclosed yeah who's give the name lc um what is it lc her name is lc a woman's name e-l yeah s-l-i-s-e l i s e-l-l-e-l-i-s-e elise i think elsie i think you pronounce that l that's that's all right so spell it one more time for me e-l-i-s-e all right your last name um i'm not sure about that because she i think she was recently married so what was the name of the time of the gift um see i i was gonna i thought it was clark but i don't want to do what i did here last time because i want them to accuse me of do the best you can i don't know i really i just rather say i don't know no you don't get a rather what did you i don't know you said i don't know give your best estimate of the name if you recall um go ahead because i think i'm getting it confused with somebody else that's okay that's the thing elsie clark to the best of your recollection i don't think you know i just think you said another i think that's wrong is that something michelle would know yeah she would probably know that and do you think these collectibles are in some storage center in st louis yes and ultimately it would be to liquidate them yes yes okay have any inventory is there any inventory of the collectibles yes it should be inventory and who would have that michelle would know that have any of your ministries uh including jmi been audited by the by the irs no investigated by the fbi no you or your ministries that applies to so neither you nor your ministries no okay and have you ever been arrested no ever been charged criminally with any crime no ever been indicted by a grand jury no have you ever been sued personally or in any other capacity um think about that because that's a large question right i don't i don't understand i just don't want to get involved i need to kind of understand what a lawsuit if you're a well-defended have you been a plaintiff a party were you divorced yeah so yeah okay you were involved in enforcement okay that's one last one okay did you file or did your wife my wife all right any other lawsuits that you were involved in not that i know of never been sued by anybody else but your wife no never sued anybody else no i don't think i don't think i've ever done that like that no his jam am i ever been sued i think they have is is that proper to say that you can answer that i think they have and when was that um it was just recent um i think that's what you would call that i don't know if that's what you call it i don't know um but i know there's a uh a a a man named jim patrick that that used to be a part of the building and he was falsifying things about the ministry on him any money and a lot of it was from my knowledge was thrown out so i don't know if you call that a suit that was just did the last like yeah i think we had to go to court so that's probably what it is all right so was jim patrick the plaintiff uh yeah and he was suing jmmi i i guess that's what you call it is that what you know i really don't know honestly did you go to court no i didn't go to court did you hire a lawyer uh yes uh ministry jmi did that and did this occur in st louis uh no here in michigan in michigan do you know what was it uh downtown in wayne county with the taylor court i really don't have that yet for me i don't know and what were the basic allegations that were i made just that you know he um he was owed so much money for so much equipment he said that was his or that he don't have and it wasn't true i'm sorry he was owed money for equipment not old money for equipment but he was trying to say equipment was his that wasn't his which they found out to be not true what he was saying so is that resolved and over with uh i'm not sure you probably have to ask michelle not positive so he was saying in essence he wanted return of of office equipment from jama no i don't know all the details of it so i can't speak on it i was not involved in that what kind of equipment would it be um i don't know i don't have any i really don't have any um understanding of the total thing because what he's trying to do is really sue the church before we got the building uh who that he was a part of but because we bought the building he's i guess he thought we had his equipment so what building are you referring to that you bought in taylor michigan what ministry bought that what building um on the 20320 superior road so you own that building and you lease it to the church yes and how much do you get in lease money 3k a month yeah and you also run offices out of there yes what about the lawsuit filed in 2006 by ge capital information technology solutions where you and resurrection media ministries were named as defendants i can't remember everything that that was about but i do remember something like that and because um i filed bankruptcy i think and um personally yeah and um when did you personally file bankruptcy i think that was in is that i i don't know the exact year but i know we were having proceedings around that well approximately i understand you don't know exactly maybe 505 or six i don't know okay all right so you filed personal bankruptcy and it was the result of or in some way related to the ge capital information lawsuit i think that's been so long ago i don't remember all the details to that what was the essence of the lawsuit that's the thing i don't remember that no idea anything about it no i remember the ge name i just don't remember what it was about but it was significant enough that you filed bankruptcy well that wasn't the reason why i filed bankruptcy i just remember the bankruptcy thing happened around that time why did you file bankruptcy then um because of um the the ratio to that what kind of debt did you have at the time um um what dad did i have i can't remember all of it but uh it's not something i remember in detail i can't kevin can i ask a question to ask you where did he file backwards well i'm going to i mean if just if it was here well i'm going to get to that were you residing in st louis when you filed it mm-hmm yes and so did you file it in st louis the st louis federal district court yes and where was this lawsuit by ge capital where was that filed i think it's in st louis yeah so would it be fair to say that there probably was a judgment against you that you wanted to discharge in bankruptcy don't speculate if you don't know i don't know i don't know well when you start to answer questions about ge you mentioned you filed bankruptcy so i assume there was some relationship i don't think so i just that came to me and i wondered what that was about so i just rather say i don't know i really don't know it's been so long ago do you if you were guessing even would you say that you had a judgment against you for that um i i think that was uh i guess for i don't know if that was what that was about but and you have no recall of what that was it was about no and at that time it was resurrection media ministries yes and when did that name um [Music] come into play um that came in 2000 i mean i'm sorry 1995. i think it was legally filed in and um um 98 or maybe before 98 i'm not sure but at round two 1994 to 98 round that time and when did it end i think 2007 or 6. and why we just wanted to start a new name were there debts against this ministry yeah there was some debts what was your role in this resurrection media ministries i was the ceo was michelle involved in that one no who else was on the board resurrection i don't remember it's been so long honestly so did you in essence just abandon that name and uh ministry um i don't know what you mean by abandon no longer called yourself that no longer participated under that label right and you believe and you believe that there were there were debts associated with that yeah that was some was that part of your reasoning in changing the name uh no i don't think that was the reason no who else was part of the decision to change the name from resurrection to gmmi um no one but me just you so why did you do that i wanted to start under a new name um why i just felt we needed to start under a new name so there wasn't anybody else on the board but you no i'm sure there was a board but i don't remember okay and was there anything in between um resurrection and joshua media ministries no so he went from one directly to the other that's a yes yes yes what about the lawsuit filed by all winners investments with you and compucom i.t solutions were named as defendants tell us about that one i don't i don't remember anything about that other than that being a company that my ex was involved in when you say your ex who you're referring to uh tabitha taylor but you were named as a defendant probably yeah because that's that was a company she was in or companies she was working with with her business and what's the time frame for that time frame when this lawsuit was filed um i'm not sure i think it's around 0-5 i think when real estate dropped because that's what that was concerning a real estate business or venture what does all winners refer to i don't know you don't know what the company is no that that wasn't her company i don't think that was a company i said she was working with them okay and what was the name of her business i don't know was it compucon i'm not sure would michelle know about this one um no was this in st louis yes was there a judgment against you and or your wife yeah i think there was a judgment so that may have also factored into your reasoning to file bankruptcy was it this judgment um i don't think that was the only thing i'm not saying the only reason right but one of them may be you have to answer yes or no yes you had criminal charges filed against you in clay circuit court in 2007. what was that about i don't know i don't remember no criminal uh charges against me you don't remember any criminal charges in clay count circuit court no i don't ever remember going to any court about no criminal activity what about the criminal charges filed against you in pettis 18th circuit court in 2007 and 2013. um i don't i don't i don't know what you're talking about the criminal in 2007. 2007 and 13 or any for that matter i don't know i have never been to court for no criminal charges did you ever hire me did you ever hire an attorney to represent you in any criminal defense manner um yes i have um and that was the only thing i could think of in 13 is me you know when i disciplined my child and that was the only thing so i i don't know anything other than that tell me about that one was that in st louis yes and which child was that um that was last year i think or the year before last if i'm not 13 which child uh destiny your 18 year old daughter yes and was this done through children's protective services i think so yeah and what were the allegations well that um that i had disciplined her because she skipped class 20 times and and they felt me um my discipline measure of using a belt was abusive all right so you do you use the belt in disciplining destiny i don't know if i can speak on that uh can i speak on this oh because my my lawyers told me don't uh then not knowing the status of those proceedings is it resolved is it all done i'm going to object well let me just ask if it's what the status is um i don't know all right i'm not asking you to say what you did i'm just asking if the allegations were that you disciplined your daughter with a belt and caused just allegations you may ask but i'm going to i'm going to pose a constitutional protection on that what's the constitution i'm not asking him to say what he did or didn't do anything it might lead to or otherwise be my considered be incriminating i think he's got a right to certainly i think he can tell me what the allegations are that is not privileged fifth amendment or otherwise he is because he doesn't if he doesn't know he's speculating well he's not saying that i don't know the privilege it's absolute somebody wants to take it you know i don't know i don't know who the lawyer is he doesn't seem to know the condition of the matter so to avoid any kind of drift and i think maybe you you might be concerned about as well well is this is this uh let me ask you did this rise to the level of court intervention by the local court in um st louis that that does uh don't speculate if you don't well please don't testify for him well i don't know did you go to court on it um what court would you any court do you ever go to any court about these allegations that you disciplined destiny physically the belt so what the f would family court be known as if you know yeah family court so you did go to family court yes yes and what was the outcome of that is it done is it pending i don't know you have no idea no i don't know everything is that why destiny doesn't live with you now uh yes when was the last time you were in the family court about this um i can't remember the exact date it was sure last year sometimes beginning you know what season just approximate um i can't remember i really don't know i know it's last year you have no idea if it was in january versus december uh oh i know it was not way back in january but i really don't know what month it was okay i don't is there any uh continuing court date um i think there is but i don't know when who would know that um michelle would know that do you have a lawyer in these proceedings yes what's the lawyer's name um mark doesn't get another name full name full name um his last name is skipping me i always know his last name but uh if you need me to i can get that for you afterwards was he court appointed or did you retain him a retainer mark um did you retain him through jmmi or through your own personal checking account objection relevancy as to how he retained the first of all you can do this you can do relevancy but i'm still asking i don't know first of all this whole line of questions are relevant that's fine well it certainly does matter when he has pronounced in his last deposition that debbie frazier is a fine uh mother so the fact that he's in that has nothing to do with his sense of his his certain experience sure it's an opinion your challenge is opinion but you don't have to i think this whole line of questioning is that could be really way out of line frankly okay and we preserve it and we'll see who reviews it um but i don't want to do that i'm not trying to be obstructed i know i'm trying to protect his rights and i think we ought to be very careful careful about not knowing what's going on in another jurisdiction when he doesn't know and he's got a lawyer no well he doesn't know i think he knows he's already said he was he was alleged that he uh disciplined her for skipping class with the belt yeah that's pretty straightforward and then that'll be enough well i'm not done in april of 2014 you wrote a check for three thousand dollars uh and another one for 382 dollars to the mark's law firm mark which is a saint louis law firm specializing in divorce cases okay so is it his last name is marx okay yeah that probably was jonathan marks yes that's his name now good exactly and you retained him and jama my wrote the check uh i don't know i really don't know i can show it to you because it's part of the discovery so why would jama be paying for your personal legal fees i don't know you don't know i mean i have you can ask michelle they the financial board knows all the rs laws and they know what could be done and not be done so they know the what did you say the rs laws irs laws is that what you said yeah i don't yeah so michelle knows the irs laws well we have a firm who knows all of that but it'd be better to ask her because i don't who what firm are you talking about i don't know yet a law firm or an accounting firm accounting firm and you think the the accounting firm well in theory they could reconcile the distribution and give it to them exactly yeah so i don't know how they're doing it so i i can't answer on that i'm going to show you two checks okay uh made out to mark's law firm and ask you if that is your signature on both of them yes of course okay so you wrote the checks from an account that is joshua media ministries expense account right there yes so you wrote the checks to mark's law firm signed the check from a jmi expense account yeah i think i signed the checks but um like i say michelle would know better what these went for you don't know what they went for no i mean well i see what they went for but like i say it would be better to ask her because i don't know i have checks signed so they can deal with business or whatever so i don't know how they are all allocating everything so it'll be better to access but you acknowledge that you signed this check to mark yes from an expense account of jmmi yes who is attorney jeff weisman jeff i'm not that name isn't registering with me gmi paid a retainer of two thousand dollars to him in september i don't know you have no idea no would that be a check you also signed i don't know i mean any checks that go out that me or my board can sign then i'm not always notified on every intricate detail of where the check is going i have trusted people who make sure that who has signatory power on the check i know i'm one of them i don't know all everybody you do you don't know all the people that are authorized to sign checks no i know i'm one of them what is miracles in in america it's um it's the name of the crusades are doing it in the american country say that again it's the name of the crusades that i do in the american country in the american country what does that mean what american country what that what we're on right now you talking about the united states united states of america yeah so miracles in america is the crusade yes the name of crusade is the title theme title theme and what it tell me about it well it's just a um a campaign i do to to love sick people who are sick take a minute can i do this it's rich excuse me ricky ricky yes she's not going to have any problems tomorrow oh yeah she is why do you say that my opinion can we go we are back on the record it is 12 12 p.m ready yes all right we were talking about um miracles in america so explain to me what that is uh it's a it's a ministry outreach of that minister to hurting people what do you mean hurting people sick people people on drugs or any kind of form of hurt emotional mental physical so what does the ministry do um pray for people feed the poor um where do you feed the poor um well we was doing it out of the building in taylor um up until last year until the the beginning part of last year until early 2014 yeah i think so yeah and why did it stop um it's just that we needed a new structure of uh people to run that part because the people who we had running it left and went to another place so does miracle miracles in america is that a separate banking account miracles in america right i don't know i don't i don't understand you don't understand i mean i understand the question totally does miracles in america have a separate banking account from jmi not that i'm no i know of i mean you probably need to ask michelle she would know so do you when you say it's a crusade tell me what a crusade is it's just a campaign what does a campaign mean campaign is a a purposeful ministry endeavor to achieve a specific objective so is it a request for money no it's not that's not what the campaign is for it's the campaign is to have hurting people so what do you do to help hurting people well we pray for the sick we um when you say we who are you talking about well the whole organization so do you ask for donations to help course yeah donations is that's normal in a charity so you ask for donations and then you pray for these people that you think are hurting know that how we do it but wait well tell me i'm trying to figure this out well i mean our objective is to help hurting people and in the process you know when most of that's finished we give people our opportunity to donate to the ministry like every other ministry does in church okay what do you mean when it's finished well i don't understand this so you're going to have to explain it you say when it's finished then we give them an opportunity to donate yeah when i when we finish helping them or whatever we give people opportunity to give and donate to the ministry so are you talking about at a specific gathering for example the taylor you have to answer yes yes that you what you call people up who need to be helped is that what you're talking about um i don't know if it's just calling people up who need to be helped only we we have x people to come if they need have prayer needs to come up but that ain't normally just the way we flow in that but um well tell me what you do in miracles in america that's different from your normal ministry well um there are many ministries that does what we do i mean um it's not about yours yeah i mean it's normal um they pray for the sick just like every pastor does in the church they pray for sick members and people who are hurting so you say after you've helped them is that are you saying you helped them at one meeting is that what it would be well we have multiple meetings so i don't we offer canceling and all kind of other forms of ministry drug rehab you offer drug rehab where um they're at the taylor building you run a drug rehab well not not something more on the spiritual lines of canceling and helping them to get off uh that kind of life you know who does the counseling um i think her name is mary jessica mary jessica how do you spell that i don't know jessica and she offers drug rehab counseling yes is she a certified drug rehab counselor i don't i don't know but it's just ministry i don't i think you're getting more technical into the legal aspect of it we're i'm talking about spiritual ministry and giving people advice to stop using drugs and to pray for them that they will be free from that is she a minister uh yeah she is a minister yes with what organization um well she's with us but i don't know if it's an organization she's a part of she's a minister with jmmi yes she's part of the church that's leasing the building from us oh she's part of the church the taylor church that leases the building so that's not jmi though no okay so it's not part of jmi this is something that is done independently through the people that lease the building from you and taylor no no this is jmi that has put that in place and i let ministers from that church be a part of it so do you pay for that pay i'm sorry what do you mean what do you mean you've put it in place you do you pay for it in some fashion i don't understand what you accidentally make sense well i mean it costs money to run these things so who who of course i mean jmi pays for the overhead of i mean whatever happens in that building so don't they lease it from you don't they pay you yeah but not normally you know it's sporadically what do you mean not normally well i don't i don't um make them stick to that you know if if there are things that the church need i i'll waive that fee you know so so you have the ability to waive fees of the taylor church that leases from you yeah of course yeah what's the name of that church um kingdom family church so that's not run by jmi um actually uh no it's a separate entity it's run by kfc what's kfc kingdom family church okay so they're they are separate unto themselves uh yes they are just a part of the movement you know i don't know okay well jmi is a movement it's a global movement and there are a lot of churches who are part of around the world as a part of what we do and they're one of the churches that do they happen to be leasing the building from us all right so when you say that um there is a drug rehab component you're referring to that's kingdom family church that's not jmi well no that's not kingdom family church that is jmi so we just have somebody from kfc who is a minister that we allow to run that are you on the board of kingdom family church uh yes in what capacity um i i don't know um i know i'm on the board but i i don't know what official title that you would say so you're saying that the drug rehab ministry that runs out of the taylor building is jmmi and not kfc right is debbie frazier participate in that not that i know of she's not working with the drug rehab part that i know of are there any other ministries that you say are run out of the taylor that are jmmi's obligation or no no just the drug rehab right all right so when you say miracles in america you've claimed that you can cure cancer no i've never cleaned i've been cured no have you brought people up um to the front when you're preaching and laid your hands on them yes and cured them uh the lord does it through me it's not okay so the lord does it through you so has the lord ever through you cured cancer yes yes and how many times do you think that's happened i don't know i'll have a count so let me procedurally let me see so would the scenario be that you bring people up that you say are sick and some are hurting in some fashion and you lay your hands on them and through um the lord they're cured and that's when you ask them to make contributions because you've helped them no okay explain it to me then well i mean there are people who come that are sick and they all know basically what i say that i'm not the one who has the power to cure you god do but as ministers he's given us the obligation and responsibility to pray for the sick to see them healed that they may be healed and i can't i can't say if they completely will be or not i'm not the one who makes the decision god does or whatever but i do my job to pray for them and as a result of doing that basically there are some that are healed some that are not so what other kinds of ailments are healed are there people that come up on crutches and are able to walk away yeah people come up in wheelchairs and are able to get up and walk right and do you know these people before they come up and approach you no anybody at jmi know them not that i know of them so you're saying that of all the the ministries in the world you've been selected to lay your hands on these folks and to cure them of their physical ailments through god oh catholic people lay hands on sick people they don't they do not say that they have cured them though oh no i mean they pray i didn't say i cure them i say i pray for them you say that the lord does it through you that's what you said yeah he does it through others too not just me can you name some other people that have catholics do it catholics don't they do i'm careful it doesn't happen no you if you're a part of you're a certain part of a certain catholic there are catholics who do that who believe that they can cure physical illnesses by laying their hands on them no true god yeah you're misquoting that again they're not saying that they can do it but they believe in prayer they believe in prayer okay so are you saying that all you do is pray and that these people end up being cured some of them yeah can you give me some people that have been i can't and so then after you've cure is that is that what you're referring to the miracles in america is that part where you bring them up and lay your hands on them and pray that's the miracles part okay that's a campaign and then you were um and then you say if you've been cured you should donate no or consider donating no no i thought you said people the healing is not a part of any money donations the the donation and financial part is more of me asking for support to continue these kind of meetings to get broader and reach more people i thought you had said that after these people have been helped that you after you've i was just stating the the um a succession or whatever it has nothing to do with uh the way you're trying to word that you know about this feel free to reword it i'm just trying to yeah i'm just getting a question you don't have to paraphrase for anybody okay yeah i'm just saying that's what happens is that you call people up you lay your hands on them you believe that through you the lord is curious christian's been asking answered at least a dozen times okay so we're not going to do it again in that then at some point at the end of this service you ask for donations uh yes um what time sometimes yeah um there has been some talk among your ministry that you're able to cure aids is is that something you not you personally but through the lord have you ever been able to cure aids through the lord yes you have and when did that happen it's just happened at different times over the years do you have any proof it was verified by doctors yeah and is this in st louis or here or just different places just different places and then you go to the follow-up doctor's appointment with these people and see the term blood work is i don't have time to do all that i let them do that because if if the lord heals them then it should show in the medical report how do you know they're cured well those who are they come back with doctor reports statements and they give witness to it the people give witness to it not you know not me so they come back and report that they were cured have have you ever through the lord here to a cured a blind person yes and where did that occur you know it's happened in different places over the years so so many times that you can't count no i can't and what about people that were crippled that were unable to walk same thing right and then do these people follow you around to your crusades and ministries some of them do yeah um but we just mainly just get a whole new group of people because it's not a church it's more of a you know a place where they come to get minister to you know and go back out how do you receive your donations how do i receive them right how do you go about asking them and funding this i ask them to give who how the people who are there in my meetings so the people that are in your meetings you request funds from them yeah x them too so so when you're having a a uh oh uh what do you call the um a service of some sort and tailor then you ask for um financial contributions uh yes are there any um any other outreach for financial contributions other than at the time of the service um of course yeah there are financial campaigns that go on all the time all right tell me about that um okay what do you mean what do you mean by a financial campaign well i mean like at the end of the service i'll ask people if they want to donate and give to this ministry then let them do that when i'm traveling to different places i do the same thing so that's all part of the financial aspect of our ministry how we receive finances right so i asked you and in the mail sending mail tell me about that well we just send mail out letters tapes products you know and we give people opportunity to give my mailing this people who have been supporters i'm sorry people who have been supporters you're you give people an opportunity and i didn't hear what you said yeah to donate so do you send them products and tapes without their asking and hope they pay you no sometimes we just give them out free we give a lot of things out free and then hope that they'll donate in appreciation well the gift is not in hope that they'll donate we just ask people standardly to give to the ministry because of the ongoing vision of what we're trying to do what's the ongoing vision well to reach the world in america through media television and all kind of other ministry outreaches for reach them to say what i'm sorry what do you want to reach them about oh i want to tell them about the lord jesus christ where do you get your mailing list how do you know who to send mail to this people who who gives us their mailing list or their information how does service oh it's from people that are in the service yes or call in to the office or whatever how do you they know to call how do they know about you to call from tv outlets and different uh exposure through media outlets okay your in your previous testimony and the judge specifically in her opinion said that you had to answer this um it said that jesus appeared to you in a dream in st louis in 2007. can you tell me about that dream 2007 no i said he appeared to me when when i got saved in 1989 when i was 17 years old was this when you're in culinary school no i was in the 12th grade so that's when you but you said you had a dream yes i did okay no not that would dream a dream later that you were supposed to tell somebody something and you claim privilege during that i i don't you have to be more specific i'm not quite um let's see do you want to refresh his recollection i'm going to read to him the transcript i'm just trying to find out which is the best parts to pick um and i'll give you this so you can look at it um so this at the end at the last deposition we were talking about your face-to-face visits with jesus and you answered before 2010 comma 2007. and then i ask you where it is and i'll show this to you can review this and you said you were asleep in a dream and i asked where you were sleeping and you said st louis at your residence and you said and i said what was that experience like and you said well he just basically appeared to me and showed me something that he wanted me to say and then when i asked you to explain it you said it's private it's priestly and the judge in her opinion said that you had to answer that well she didn't say that she said she had he had to answer certain classification of questions that including that one no the opinion about that but i will tell you you can answer that question as long as it doesn't relate to any communications confidences anything was necessary in a relationship with the party as to those kinds of generic things go ahead yeah um basically he spoke to me about our country america um now you you said very specifically that it was him telling you to tell somebody else that and you didn't want to disclose who it was or what it was about not about the country it wasn't uh something in general not to say anything about it no he he said he said he wouldn't talk i don't remember what you're really hold on my mind fell off thank you i'm sorry here's what your it says in the in the transcript well he just basically appeared to me and showed me something that he wanted me to say and then you say he basically appeared to me to share what he wanted me to say to somebody and i said can you tell me what that is and he said it's private it's priestly so that's what i'm asking you and he's going to answer that question okay he will who so who were you supposed to what who is the somebody that you were supposed to say something to i don't remember it being one specific person as your wording it well it's not how i worded it you can read your answer right there for me to the record i understand what you would you please read this sir yeah i've already read it oh you want me to say physically yeah he basically appeared to me to show he basically appeared to me to show to me to share what he wanted me to say to somebody okay who's the somebody i guess the kind of talking that is is country you know i'm from memphis tennessee so when i say somebody i don't mean one person i mean the group of people that he wants to say it wasn't uh a specific person no it's a group of people in our country well see it's interesting because later i say i'm asking you what jesus said to you in the dream and he said i can't tell you it's for a person yes that i uh did i say personally yeah he said person right here i don't remember saying that i don't know if you got that right well it's not me it's the transcript right i i can't tell you it's for a person okay yeah i can't tell you it's for a person that i i don't remember that but um so now you're changing that story no i'm not it's expanding on that question let the records speak for itself it may but now you're asking him to ask what he meant because he invoked the per the dependent privilege i'm saying go ahead he'll now explain it it's not related to any confidential communications with any individual why are you interrupted because no no no your testimony is that it was for somebody well you can argue that all you want i'm going to let him answer the question as it doesn't relate to any particular communication with anything it's a dream it's just communication right and in there if you read the opinion dreams are not privileged not privileged clearly i'm not asserting okay so then you should just answer he's trying to and you don't like the answer right no you interrupted when i said so you're changing what the testimony is before when you said i had i wanted to or i was told by jesus to talk to somebody now you're saying or to tell somebody something now you're saying that's not what it was well you know i'm expounding upon what i was trying to say it's not changing it you just whatever is written there i just didn't have the time i'm having now to explain what i'm saying it was personal it's something personal for a group of people okay tell me what do you mean by that well i mean there are things that you know the lord wants to say to you know certain groups of people in our country well what what group and what did he say in the dream well he began to speak to me about you know them uh giving their life to him them and repenting of their sins or just sinners so just in general but that's a group yes mm-hmm but that's what wasn't any specific group that god you're saying that god just appeared you and said people need to repent for their sins yes i mean that is a specific group aren't we all sinners sinners say by grace this one group and then there are sinners who are just they don't know god and they're not um they're not trying to live for god at all so those are the people we want to reach help them the sinners that are not repenting right so god appeared to you and said what that's what about this group he just said for me to tell them that he was the son of god that he had risen from the dead that he died for their sins do you claim to be a prophet um yeah that's one of my calls one of your one of my calls yeah calls what does that mean what does it mean to be a prophet there's a spokesperson for god a messenger so you believe you have direct communication with god yes you posted a video on the internet in 2014 it was about the super bowl and you said and this is a quote it was shown to me that the denver broncos are going to win the super bowl end of quote then you went on to say quote i understand by the spirit the interpretation of these dreams and i know them to be true end of quote and then further went on to say as a quote the holy spirit has borne witness to me that the broncos are going to win end of quote did the broncos win no did you take that video down of course yeah because it was wrong yes that was a really a miscommunication between whom someone had a dream they gave me and i tried to interpret it and thought that i had help from god in doing that and uh and it's obviously that i didn't so just like other prophets in the bible who missed it at times i missed that so it was uh other prophets have missed things like super bowls not super bowls we're talking about other things they miscommunicated messages god gave them and they made mistakes too but not about super bowls or that kind of secular kind of god is god is in everything god's even in the super bowl no god is just in everything wherever people are he's there so you think that what that went about to prophesy about a super bowl that was basically to um show people that um as the um who was that the guy who won the cup he even testified how he had a dream that he would win and he did win in this last um in the um thing that was in brazil i think that the huge world cup i forget what it is but anyway you know my point was trying to show that god speaks to people and dreams but the dream the person had was not accurate so but the dreams i have are very accurate okay so who was the dreamer um this was just i don't remember who it was it was a it was something sent in to me and i was there turned into you to interpret something by email somebody said somebody's dream yeah someone sent me a dream by email so you didn't meet this person i knew of them but i'm trying to remember um if it was them who had it or they were saying that they had a friend who told them and they really just believed on somebody saying something to somebody to saying something and it becomes a prophecy from the from god no i have reputable people who have dreamed reputable people yeah who have dreamed accurately so sometimes i trust that word unlike in this case i i don't think i should have used my global platform to do that so anyway did you um post any sort of um explanation about why this wasn't accurate of course you did i apologize i don't see that i've looked i don't see that posting how long was that up it was a long time it's still out there you think there's a posting and tell me what it says i just explained to the people my heart what i was trying to do and how i missed god and that that communication and so and told them i was sorry but they've known my track record to be accurate that they know that i wasn't given the dream they know when i'm i have a dream and prophesied is accurate but i explained to them that i was trying to actually be i guess open to hearing god through other people and interpreting what they saw even when it comes to football games it don't matter what it is anything you said on the video that it was shown to you that the denver broncos were going to win no i didn't yeah that's what you said that's a quote listen to me i specifically told them that the dream came from somebody else and as a interpreter of that dream i felt that god was showing me that which i've said to you that i missed that point i thought god was helping me to communicate that and i was wrong about that so well you went on to say and this is a quote i understand by the spirit the interpretations of these dreams and i know them to be true that's end of quote and then another quote the holy spirit has bore witness to me that the broncos are going to win end of quote yeah you said those things of course of course yeah okay so the holy spirit bore witness to you tell me what how that happened it was wrong so it wasn't the holy spirit so why are we still going over this question you don't get to ask questions you get to answer i'm just telling you you you're being redundant it don't make no sense no i've i've shared what happened you aunts you've put on on the whole worldwide internet that the holy spirit has bore witness to you that the broncos are going to win right yeah okay and why is this funny you're just funny let me make an objection i understand i am sure somewhere in this line of questioning there's some nexus to your motion to either modify child support change alimony or somehow deal with custody and parenting time right it's a little bit tenuous i understand that's your opinion well it's an objection okay that this there's no i understand you've got a an ongoing more than relevant and i understand that so i'll answer there's got to be a point in time where this becomes argumentative and therefore we're wasting time right time is money and i have no objection to opening them up we're trying to be as accommodating as we can but you know i i could say they pass the plate in my church and they take collections and i know they do it in the catholics 1.4 million dollars from a woman who has now given to someone but you know what turn it down is he recording these conversations i certainly hope he's not because it's violation of the criminal statutes if he's tape recording these conversations i don't want that put on the record accusation that my client is violating a criminal i just want to know he just played something off a recording and i don't know where he's your clients i don't know that vision the super bowl was going to be won by the broncos i don't know that sure play it again i don't want to hear it you make representations he what is i don't care what he's doing what your client's done it's fine don't i mean it's old it's fine i really really don't care he said it just happens to be me that was showing the dreams in his sleep i didn't say that well you didn't you know what just don't be argumentative i won't you're not supposed to ask questions okay you answer them no matter how absurd okay tangential elongated irrelevant or otherwise burdensome they are okay you just answer the questions and we'll move through this okay what's a false prophet well first of all what a false prophet is not is not someone who won't miss a prophecy you had a lot of negatives in there no i said a false prophet is not somebody who don't miss a prophecy number one that's what they're not what they are is someone who have deviated from following god that's the real meaning of a false prophet according to you no according to the bible the bible says that's what a false prophet is yes anyone who divvies for following god and misleading people to follow the lord they don't say that a false prophet is someone who don't have faults because obviously a lot of god's prophets had no not false but people that claim to know things for example in the future who's going to win a super bowl and are wrong isn't that a false prophet no that's not what the bible teaches what does the bible teach on that the bible just teaches that a false prophet is someone who do not turn people to god and where what site do you have for that i'm sorry what site what biblical site you say that's what the bible says it's in the bible right where to read it i can't give you all the scriptures right now you don't know the scriptures no i do know them but i can't get you pointing verse i got to go through the coordinates and show you where they are so you wouldn't say it's a false prophet to go on the internet and claim to have heard from god uh what the outcome of something was going to be and and have it be completely wrong that's not a false prophecy no that's a false prophecy but not a false prophet okay so people can make a lot of false prophecies and you don't think they're false prophets and the reason why i would believe that is because you know there are people who are sincere and they're trying to hear from god and they can miss god according to where the development of their gift is okay so let's we were doing this in the last um deposition about um in your book you state that you have seen jesus face to face a thousand times in your last deposition you could only state a couple and they were in a dream so how many times have you actually seen jesus face to face i don't know it's just been so many times over 20 years tell me what happens when you see jesus face to face well has it been over a thousand times it's been uh yes many times pardon me yes it's been over a thousand times yes okay so when you see jesus face to face describe where give me an example of one well i mean when i first saw him in a dream in my in the 17 12th grade year okay next one i mean what you want how many you want me to list advantage again so many um many many different times i can't really go through all of them but it's just so many times you can't list them give me another example i mean my book face to faces lifts a lot of them so well you wrote the book i assumed yes okay so tell me what's in the book how many places and times have you seen them are they always dreams a lot of them are dreams do you ever sit down communication with them um usually we're standing in the dream he's relaying a message to me only in dreams mostly in dreams what about the clouds yes we're not from the clouds you know i've never said he's spoke to me from the cloud never in the clouds no in dreams in the physical realm here and in the physical realm here so tell me about those well he just comes unannounced and then he tells me what he wants to say and he leaves so you're saying he he sits in the physical realm with you and talks to you not sit stands he stands in a room with you and converses in the physical realm you have to answer out loud yes tell me what that's about where did that occur just at different places if i'm fasting and praying in the church he does it or just like he did paul in the bible he came in the physical realm and talked to him so you're equating yourself with paul in the bible no not equating it's just i'm equating the same experience not the same person give me an example of where it occurred and when that you saw him in the physical presence like you just said well i'll just share with you when i'm fasting and praying in the church he comes in he has has anybody else seen him no i'm by myself um so nobody else can see him or they just didn't happen to see him what are you saying in what context are you talking about when he comes to me or if he's separate going to them personally what do you what do you think i'm saying when he when the two of you are talking and having your your visit and someone else walks in would they see him oh yeah i mean it's possible but that didn't happen so it's never happened that somebody else saw him while you were seeing him no so no one else could verify this no so give me an example of where you were and uh what approximate time very specifically when you saw him face to face in the physical realm well i can't give you a time i just know i was in the church and what church um a church in port huron i go to to pray what's the name of 2010 uh new covenant fellowship and what happened well he just appeared to me and told me um you know a few things that he wanted me to share with his people and what is that it's um so much you want to sit here and listen to the whole thing sure yeah yeah well basically you know um just certain spiritual laws concerning the word of god his word what does that mean well um this fact is about using his power to love people with it to help them basically have there been any physical encounters since 2010 um yes there has and when's that um in 12 okay where was that it's also in the church which church um saying church the portugal church and what occurred there um basically um him sharing another message of what he wanted me to share and what is that um this one was different it was more concerning what he wanted me to do in america and what did he want you to do in america um basically um to hold crusades and to tell people about the gospel and what he did for them 2 000 years ago so this was a [Music] big vision that he shared with you yes and you were standing up in the church in uh port huron well i was on my knees but he was still i thought you both stood up i told you he stands we got to stop he's changing the disc we are going off the record it is 12 57 pm

Channel: AmForma

Views: 1,011,173

Rating: 4.395752 out of 5

Keywords: church, liar, scum, david tayor, apostle, thief, bentley, limo, limoland, house, mansion, corrupt, scandal, scumbag, religious, crook, deposition, depo, court, judge, legal, law, jury, interrogation, sucker, car, bmw, donation, misuse

Id: a6NtL-gyg0U

Length: 118min 40sec (7120 seconds)

Published: Sat Feb 04 2017

Reddit Comments

[u/copagman]

How could anybody possibly follow this man as a spiritual leader? He speaks at a 1st grade level. Seriously, my five year-old niece is more articulate (it's also her bday today - happy birthday, Stella!)

[u/I_JUST_LOVE_UR_BRAIN]

“Probably have to ask Michelle”...you know, since he said it about 1500 times during this. Guilty has a look, and this man is it...