"The "Apostle" David Taylor Full Deposition: Day 1 Part 2

back on the record 404 just to write mr. Taylor I'm going to show you exhibit 1 I'm going to ask you if this is what you have referred to as the residential center yes this is OK and you can tell me how many pages are on that exhibit 6 and is it accurate that all those pages are pictures of the residential center exactly ok and what do you want I thought you just huge one yeah is that also referred to as the ministry house it could be yeah that means yes yeah we usually say professionally residential centers but sometimes it's referred to as the ministry house and is there any other place that's referred to as a ministry house I think there's another location where the ministry have already I think started buying a place and it's a place where some of the staff with this thing you know why I provide a place if someone wants to do intern in the ministry so I provide a place where Nevada it's in st. Louis in what's the address for this you know I don't know I don't have that because it's reset so it's would you be able to provide that yeah we can with the other documents you're going to get me before your next step a little once yes exactly and just for the record I would note over mr. Jenkin statements that we dispute that my client is luring or doing anything inappropriate he is looking at David Taylor aka the Prophet I'm sorry the apostle because that is a person who is speaking and he is that rolling his eyes he is talking to me on occasion which is perfectly acceptable for him to talk to his attorney I would just like the record to reflect that so back to the questions for another so you've been making statements and regularly verbally while he's sitting there right you're not while you're talking I hear oh no while you're talking sign and there's another attorney sitting next that on on okay I'm sitting right across from self that's my Ibis I've indicated that I don't mind my request was to control your point my request is that you stop unnecessarily objecting my client has done nothing wrong he has a lawyer sitting on each side of him and he an occasion speaks to me or to the other attorney and there's nothing wrong with that all right mr. Taylor you don't know the address of the place that is also sometimes called ministry house no and tell me the purpose of this place if a resident that we bought that or that we in the process of buying - that gives young aspiring preachers and ministers a place to to stay while they an intern in our ministry being trained has Deborah Frazier ever stayed there all she's come over there I'm usually come over she's visited and come over I'm sure but you don't know the address and it was to reset it when you say it's recent when did that start maybe a year - something like that I just don't know so I'm going to show you what you provided is the balance sheet and asked you to indicate where on this this building is represented we're building what you just said was you're in the process of buying a ministry house where would it show up on the asset liability well it would because it's releasing it right now so it's a liability I don't know if they put it on here what do you mean when you're in the process of buying does that mean well you're in stages till we can buy that's what I mean no dad easily array of then um you know before we um just pay off something we we lease it until you know we have enough money to be able to do that so the head says to you that much so is it your testimony that you are leasing this piece of property yes and how much do you pay a month um actually I I don't know my my financial board knows all of those with your financial board um those three that I gave you they're there your board no I said financial board then a certain area they handle its own area the financial board is different from the board of the Gemini okay but when you refer to them as a board well maybe I ought to rephrase that since you're tripping over there let's say um they are financial administrative that didn't make sense you tell me other than to see it so do you see anything regarding this ministry house on the asset and liability sheets no I don't think it would be on here because um it might be I don't see it as as of now can you describe this place it's um it's just a residential home it's another house yes it's like a home but it what do you mean it's like a home allow me as a home it is a whole yeah okay is it at 2:03 six victory wailing two zero three six no no no what the two three two zero three six victory lane I don't notice a some address to length it has nothing to do with your ministry at all you got to answer yes or no no so it's you don't have any connection to two zero three six Victory Lane no way my my you know apartment is 208 how many 2008 it's your way right okay that sounds like another address over net area but let's not I have nothing to do with that and that's not word the ministry houses no that's the those are condominium okay Victory Lane yes so this ministry house you've been the ministry hit the gym mi has been leasing yes okay now are you the head of JAMA my yes and and you don't know where this place is I know where it is I just don't know the address and I want to give you any wrong details like I see it the first time all right can you tell me give me the description of where it is it's in Florissant Missouri right that cross streets yes a neighborhood what are the cross street I don't I don't know that but like I said I'll provide you with the information after this is over with who owns this residence um I don't know it's a fact some guy I don't I don't know him did you arrange for this lease no another ant report does those things those three people your person with Michele and yes you're a presidential administrative and so you're saying they but don't you have to sign the lease no I'm not the only one that can sign I have a board board members who all on it so you didn't sign this lease you know I don't even know can you give me a copy of the lease is that necessary I would object to the relevance of providing a document to relief property and I there's nothing to do with you actually it does we've been unable despite a court order to get an address as to where the ministry is and whatever patient's you think you in the addresses I have one address or one Village Drive right but I nobody's giving me an address for what's referred to as a ministry house where people who are participating in the ministry go and live and are provided a residence by mr. Taylor we say we'll provide that I just don't know it so it's not a problem well it's not a not a big deal I mean we're going to give you the address right I'm asking I just tell me oh no I don't I don't have that information on me now okay have you ever been there oh yeah that's like another kind of insane objection by a comment under oath he doesn't know the streets that's commentary that's not assisting I answer that disgustin videos well you hurt he made her and he made it out loud well we have to be talked about well he wants to assist you in the declaration that fine but the commentaries inappropriate I've done depositions for years I've never had somebody sit and then it starts to make comments like this he is Maya termite my client I am as attorney and so as the other person sitting on the other side mister you two don't know if I was there in a robbery please I'm gonna arrive I'm talking and I'm making an objection that's right and it's just that in my career we we do not see excellent deposition we dispute your characterization unfortunately it's videotape so which you're never proud I concur that it's disruptive that's fine I would also note that the opponent is at the far end of the table for mr. you to mobile my client is speaking to so I don't think it's disruptive I can hear the comment okay now those are not facilitating questions of what you're talking about their commentary about the positive look at the home thingy that's fine that's not appropriate in your opinion there's no concern me Artie okay there's no party is not allowed to speak he can attend he's not allowed to speak at the deposition I don't miss it is he's making a comment that the opponent doesn't know an address they go for two years to his attorney that's what you saying the deposition is being conducted by the attorneys may not lie the client not my McCoy was and only hurts there yeah I think you have an objection all these will you have another yellow on responded state your objection if you have one I haven't seen you a lot of time I stated the objection for the record all right go back to the ministry house you don't know who you lease it from like I say I have a I have oh I'm just asking you do you know who you leased it from let me finish answering you I don't I have a vast ministry so I don't know everything always that goes on I know overall but I have people who take care of those things so you know I will get that for you for this no problem if we move on from that question all right so this ministry house you're saying you are providing residents for people that are in training yes okay is Deborah Frazier one of those people no she lives here right that she ever stayed there at the ministry house she had him by there's people come by and see each other and so she don't stay there no she's never spent the night there not that I know of has she ever done any ministry work there I'm not sure I couldn't say who would know that maybe Michelle was Michelle's primary location that she works in in Taylor or in st. Louis st. Louis okay so when she's in st. Louis what facility does she work out of actually I would like to rephrase I think I would say both because she comes back and forth up here to do in the offices to do things but her laptop she uses at her own home okay does she have a residence in st. Louis yes okay now you're where Debbie Frazier frequently goes to st. Louis several times a month yes okay I know that several times for several days a month okay that would that be more accurate for you I'm not sure but he don't know he comes I know she comes to st. Louis how many times how many days a month would you approximate that she goes there I couldn't say you have no idea and I said you say accurately no does she see you when she goes to st. Louis no children see you know if she's there I may be out of town or if she is then we see each other's briefly what but I don't I don't see her like that what is your understanding of the work that Deborah Fraser does when she's in st. Louis on your behalf well like I say I have executives and administrators administrating their work and doing that so I'm not my hands is not in everything so I can't I can't say you have no idea what Deborah Fraser does when she's in st. Louis I know she's a great worker and she was doing what I share with you what I do know and like I said to you if you want to know more you have to X my second and who would that be Michelle Brennan is one Michelle is an executive and also the financial board I know she's not the financial for she fit to administrate with other financial people so it's that financial administration those who are surrounding that taking care all right I guess I don't understand you refer to Michelle as being on a financial board yeah you know I rephrase that a Fed administration I think that it'd be better for you to understand all right so there's three people in the financial administration those three people you listed with Michelle yes okay and you also referred to Michelle's and executives yes she's the executive in the ministry what does that mean well she executes all the departments and make sure everything is running smoothly overall in all the countries and the states so would she be the person that is supervising Deborah Fraser in her work yes Deborah Fraser is an unpaid child all interested so it would be Michele that would be able to tell me what exactly Deborah Fraser does when she's in st. Louis yes okay do you have any plans to hire Deborah Fraser yes I really do and what tell me about those well you know we are a growing ministry and we're trying to establish more credibility on a massive scale at the bank for us and I revelation with the bank for the size of the vision we ask all right take me back there from it you're trying to establish more credibility for the bank yes one point do I need to answer that or if you can well yeah ideally no thanks of America you know and of course that's it right that's all you need to know know you I asked you if you had any plans to hire Deborah Fraser and your response was you did just that you were growing and that you needed to establish credibility with the Bank of America well yeah look I was trying to say that in reference to we're establishing things and growing and when we are emphasized that we can hire more people she would be one of the ones we would do that all right so hot when you say you're growing how do you count your size what what tool do you use what variable to use to demonstrate your size with multiple variants ok labels go ahead and look at them all depending on what area if you talk about in size to the amount of people rearranging to television and well you and us that term you want to grow so what are you referring to well I mean you you asking a question that I think you're basically referring to the previous question so you talk about growing financially it's one thing rolling inside so it's different multiple things ok let's go through them you go through each variable for me when you say growing in size what do you mean well like I said it's multiple like it could be people ok let's start with people yeah what so how do you count people that's hard other than by television exposure of the amount of responses through that the amount of countries we are allowed into what countries are you in um well through me you win 192 countries state through what through media we're in 192 countries tell me what that means we're reaching 192 countries how does how do you do that through a television network those are specific network use yeah um the way TV out of California the way W a Y TV um in all soreness internet live streaming how do you how many people are doing that well they have ratings and ways you can you can figure out sorry my kidding you who comes on you have ways to count a vaguely the nuts white not fully but we we can see all the countries who are responding and all the people who are responding from different countries and how do you see that through with with analysis is there data available um yeah there should be there should be is that that something you look at along yeah I do look at it so there is yeah should be or there is there is okay so what do you look at to us to discern how many countries are responding to you it's a way of analysis they have who's they um there's a web analysis name get quickie that's one another one is StatCounter and I don't think neither one of them is totally accurate and that tells you what information I think they're expert maybe 80 79 success with what information how the amount of people responding from different countries okay what your understanding the amount of people responding from different countries well I know it it's in over 192 countries so I understood but we're talking about people not countries you said you could tell how many people were responding arms that's only three you know you can't always gauge by just someone responding because many people can be looking they may not ever respond so I can't really answer that question very accurately you said you thought that these these web counter things were 87 to 89 percent angular pretty specific what does that Hannah well I mean you know you know one of them may show that there's lesser amount of people on and then the other might one make sure that 8,000 people the other nation there's 12,000 so I think you could be of course from it's not quite accurate so tell me if I'm wrong it's the whole world have 192 countries or they're more than that that exist I think they'll few more than then two three or you I'm sorry would essentially two or three more isn't 192 how many there that exist so are you saying you just stream TV programs to the whole world not only that you know I consider to be network that is reaching that's what I'm talking about that so you're saying you use a TV network and my own personal live stream so it's what's your personal live streaming it's Joshua media ministries that'll work on our website say that again Joshua media ministries that work on our website okay and your live streaming what services to whom just on the internet yeah and how many did you that daily not daily know how often if I have a service in some places that is capable of live streaming live streaming like we are here and Taylor so your live stream out of Taylor and where else anywhere they may have t1 line okay just give me an example of other places you have been live streaming out of st. Louis if I'm in a church that has the the set up for that okay where else it varies I can't tell you is it it just varies if that pastor or Bishop has he has the set up for that well just give me an example of a pastor official for a church for youth live stream down it other than Taylor well in so many places on that I let my my staff handle that so I I'm trying to i don't forgot to go to them oh I'm there ministering but I can't I can't possibly do everything you know but you you said there are so many places that we have done that but you can't give me this it's ajar let me finish my question he said there are so many places but you can't give me the name of any bishop or church from which you have white is let me finish let me finish so many places but you can't give me the name or address of a church or a bishop that you have live streamed from I just gave you one but like I switch one I'm not the one instantly with abundant life fellowships okay other than that okay the like I say I travel so much and I you know I don't know all the details I have a staff to do that if you want that later I can give that to you you can give me a list of the places you have livestream if that's relevant do you think is wrong yeah I'm asking the question okay yeah you can provide the answers no I don't think it's really but you can go ahead and answer coverage because I have a standing objection but you're going to provide that to me that within the 30 days before the next step yeah I'll try to get some of those to you okay subject my objection you know when you live stream you are giving speeches or whatever through the internet to an audience that's an accurate description I don't know your terminology use your own them yeah I think it's teaching and preaching ok and in this teaching and preaching are you asking for money we do pick up an awesome standard on what I know here elevation up and offering what does that mean you're asking you for money have you ever been to church are you asking for money I'll ask you have you ever been you don't get this request well otherwise he doesn't want to do what are you trying to get an understanding right so I'm trying to give you a reference point I am at if you don't go to church it would be no less this point right I am asking what it means to take up an offering what does that mean in your terms have you ever been to a Billy Graham Graham crusade sir you don't know I'm just sayin if you don't get to ask me questions well I mean are you trying to understand what I'm saying or I'm asking you to explain it that's what I'm trying to do describe it the best ok so what do you not mean it means to to have a time where people are able to donate free to the ministry and you ask them to do that is that accurate oh yes ok and this would be when you're live streaming in Taylor yes ok have you in this live streaming publicly indicated that you are trying to get a loan from a bank for jmi yes okay and what bank you're referring to well anyone that would have the right interest rate have you made applications yeah some what things I can't I don't know I can't give you all of them then quite a few so I have an administrative team who's doing all of that work for me for anything is that the administrative team with Michele no to other women yes some of them and some others now who finds the loan lib been well no I'm sorry who would sign it if you're who makes the application would start with that who finds me application I'm sure would be board members would that be did it is that understandable but you don't know who signs the application for a long board members are you on the board yeah do you sign applications for lump when needed anything when needed who's on the board I have Michele planning I'm sorry say again Michelle Brandon southern hey Dr Brennan see I gave it to you I know I really and there's no an ER a we've been referring yeah notice is that no I just like the way he said I thought he said Brennan so it's the same person we've been talking about I just referred to her as Michelle I've met her before but I don't know her Lansing must hop in my head thank the woman that was here today yes yes okay so Michelle Brannon is on the board yes and who else Ashley we're the same woman you just yeah reference was on your your financial board yes Marcia Marcia Marcia who nice name is listen you don't know the last name of member here boys yes I do let's see ya do it Stuart how do you smell that s T P w AR D and cheese on your board of directors yes and who else myself so there's four members on the board of directors answer yes or no yes all right and Michelle Brandon is a paid employee yes Ashley where is she compensated he's volunteer and Marcia Stewart volunteer and do all three of those women reside in st. Louis yes is it possible that Marcia's last name may be McDonald's yes it is my doll it's not Stuart no Simon close is it this isn't nope and you're saying that Marcia McDonald is a volunteer can answer your friend yes and she's not compensated no she has a job what's her job she's a fine she the white fire person firemen player never player fighter that's how you want to Chloe she's not a man so I think the what word for is it a firefighters it's listen yeah she's talking about like a firefighter you can call it whatever you want it well I know I'm not going to call her anything I'm just trying to make sure we're talking about the same thing yeah I've already stated fit employed by a city to fight yes fires okay do you know what cities st. Louis amazing in going through the ledger it appears that there are a lot of checks going to returning conditions her first name is Marcia your lumbar show which is it mum Lamar Thea regiment yeah her name is Lamar sphere so not Marcia no not Marcia no Lamar Thea to the Marcia Macdonald but you pronounced it Marcia no other than Marcia that is a nice name it is Marcia Maria we don't call about la Marcia we call them Marcie they are three she goes Tanya okay so we'll Marcia in looking at your ledger it looks like there are a lot of checks that are dispersed to Lamarckian McDonald are you sure because I don't I don't know that I know she's able to find chicks to take care of fields and stuff like that but for her to be getting that many chicks I don't I don't think we're getting lying that Isaac who can sign for it numbers so those trade women and you the board bolstering women in you yes aboard but that's what we're talking about those three women I gave it to you what is safe savings a thing are you saying saving save up sa Fe savings as they di ng F the only savings I know about is my account that I put money aside for for the ministry to save finances so we don't spend everything is that something that's referred to as safe savings yes I guess if that's on there is that on there no I'm asking you if that's your terminology States savings refers to the savings account for and where what bank is adn't should be Bank of America well we got another bank - what's the other one um cloverleaf yeah all right so it's a smaller Bank in uh in Illinois this city is in Illinois what city that's a state you know what I don't know how did you end up at clover leaf through mutual connections of the VIP with the VIP was that me or the VP what they I'm sorry what's this person thing honestly I don't know this means is this somebody that you have mutual connections with no my board heads who on your board has a connection with the beyond their the show and what do you use that Bank for we have a a secure line of credit so what's it secured by um you um place that a little bit more details you said you had a secured line of credit with that Bank and I'm asking you what is it secured with um I mean with our own cash flow that's not what a secured line of credit would mean usually attached to some aspect no it's not really you don't have to have that to have a secure line of credit you don't it you have not pledged any collateral for this that's what I'm saying cash is the collateral and what cash are referring to ministry cash to build a relationship with the bank so if you deposit savings and this cloverleaf thing you know I'm not sure I have them taking care of a lot of things so I don't with them wrong like I set up my financial administration right there for example on July 23rd 2013 it says I think it's will Marcia McDonald monthly safe saving three thousand five hundred and sixty seven thousand three minutes three thousand five hundred sixty seven hundred dollars what is that that's putting money aside from the account as money flows in to faith but why is Mark Lamar SIA McDonald's name reference oh god she's the one that takes money in handles that she's on the bank card with Bank of America on the bank card it was Bank of America I mean I'm the bank card well you know they give you debit cards and they also give you the bank gives you um if you assign are on the account you cannot you know you have the power to find the chick and something so she has a debit card for the military use of the cars okay then and August 1st 2013 it just says Lamar SIA McDonald's and the ledger she gave page I blogs notify date I said if I date there's a page number 102 it references where Marcia MacDonald $400 on August 1st 2013 another August 1st 2013 $100 this is August 2nd 2013 will must start well Marcia McDonald Destiny's here $50 don't know that be your daughter destiny that's her name but I don't know why is that written like that there's a military pay for her hair to be done no I pay for all expenses out of my own personal income so I don't know how that's there if that ministry money flow is that personal so jam em I can corner it my personal life of income or is it it's on the same pages so personal savings so you think personal expense all these are personal collected well then why not ministry okay and on that same page that I'm referencing page to okay on July 23rd 2013 it says Lamar C and McDonald monthly safe savings you testified that was ministry I'm sorry I didn't know exactly what should not have it in front of me so this if you look at page two yes okay and look at an entry July 23rd 2013 yes and it says well Marcia McDonald's monthly safe savings three thousand five hundred sixty seven dollars and two cents yes this that ministry isn't that no no no he's not Venice no no I thought I'm sorry like I said you I didn't know you were coming from this personal document I thought it was a ministry thing well isn't that industry you know all of this is let me ask you let me get personal let me ask a question okay see I ever say let me Adam is why sharing a wonderful month let me ask the question okay I referenced July 23 2013 Lamar SIA McDonald monthly safe savings and you testified that that was money from the ministry that went into a savings so you could build up cash yes there was much fun yes okay so that is on a document that you presented as a ledger that is JMM I in the corner let's be clear that the JM of my in the corner was cruised by my office does the Janna lie was something that we put on there to reference for our retrieval my personal yesterday so so now that I know it's personal knock and address this more accurately I was wrong I have a ministry account where we save money in our ministry but I also have a personal account that any money that comes to me I put aside a certain amount each month what do you mean money that comes to you well I get a salary and for awhile I my salary was a bigger 70,000 a year but then I cut that in half to about thirty to twenty seven pounds well this reference for July 23 2013 that says Walmart see and McDonald's monthly saves savings yes she's she over some of my personal affairs in taking things out and adhering to kind of some of the things I want done is my account so that's what that means this is not none of this is ministry is about personal then I don't have the ministries Pledger she's saying this is personal oh the ministry is in the back I could see that now so you're saying you personally these first three pages are personal let me ask a question here things that this entry of safe savings that you previously identified as something for the ministry is actually your personal savings yes yes exactly and when you say when you come into money they hit you have a salary welcomes money that's the rough that's what you term you use when I come into money no no when I get paid a paycheck okay and you understand what I mean about a paycheck a paycheck if I get a salary that's $70,000 a year then well able dalian 1013 um I don't know because we made adjustments you don't know what you earned in - no matter really I know I started cutting things in half I want to be accurate but I can get all of them information for years proprietor research I'm sorry I said I can get all that information for you for territory proprietary identify here what do you mean by that he's open that's not what that was you know well it don't matter you know what I mean no no I don't that's what I'm Anthony what I mean could you define it so you know what this is mean let's just move on let's not be children but I think that you understand what I'm trying to say like no I don't serve every now is whatever I have you can have it is not a problem about know that let's proceed with questions and answers what I'm trying to figure out if there are ministry lighters produced or if it's just all personal well if you really I don't think you've really had a chance to look at everything no I have look at some but not I know so I could try to see your little off matters like this this for these first few pages is personally all right and then down here is ministry so it's all to get but there's a part of your um and a part that sucks he had market ministry keep doing with you so he said by Martina can you identify their document that's marked as Exhibit 2 yes and what is it it's a w-2 for whom me and your name is listed as what David Taylor and what year is that for 2013 and how much is the w-2 27k 27,000 even yes okay I may have that so is it your testimony that this w2 that you've identified accurately lifts your wages from Joshua media ministry yes and that's who issued issued this w-2 who issued it Joshua Joshua medium indifference okay so you're saying from the $27,000 salary that reflects your salary yes I think you're probably it was okay that these monthly safe savings of $3500 plus is that every moment that those savings came from your salary well it depends on the money flow like if my bills are lesser or higher in each month I have more I can save so I don't know if you're looking at $35,000 every month do it say every month I love you if you look at what I was referring to as page two July 23rd 2013 where you take out three thousand five hundred sixty seven dollars and two cents and it seems like a pretty specific amount how would that be arrived at you know because she's overdoing it really don't over that yes she's over this part of it I don't know I see what's being written here but I really need them to help answer this you know people you have a bank statement that shows where that would have gone in oh yeah all of this can use was will you produce your bank statement so we asked pursuant to subpoena of course I'm gonna be quick we're saying let's be clear Thanks seeing that you requested were those that reflected money from Debbie Frazier are you asking for something different now well I'm not sure mr. Carey can explain to me obsessive ministry money or his personal money that's simply something that he can personally so I mean from what it looks like it but I can't fully answer because I don't have the person who who handles all money well can you talk to her between now and the next step is the kind of do refresh remember we can answer that for you okay on the stand so then Michael print I'm trying to read something look at that page one of that that document we are reviewing before okay you know I'll just have which of this marks or Eclair for this is proposed deposition exhibit three it is part of what you handed me is the ledger and page numbers one through eleven that go from July 1 2013 to November 8th 2014 and do you see what I'm referring to it starts with beginning balance of July 1st 2013 and it says one thousand four hundred ninety six dollars and 42 cents are you looking at that same document what page would you say the top page okay and where is that I'm just trying to identify that we're all over the same thing and it says one thousand four hundred ninety six dollars and 42 cents yes all right this this is Joshua ministries isn't it no this is personal okay so this is personal and I really have to take a moment to give me a second this is very small print yes all right look at July 15 2013 so today mm I de f : payroll and then list your name and it says $5,000 do you see that yes okay and then the next page on date July 31st there's a $5,000 line that says jam on my salary do you see that worse than the one with July 31st maybe - JM of my salary $5,000 August 15th I got a place the same objection on the record - mr. Jenkins placed earlier this is clearly your client is in part conducting this deposition and this is not appropriate he's threatening me I'm going to give you an explanation he's directing me to the micro print that is very difficult to read of the documents that you gave me with the lanterns in your ear and no you're telling me the questions so that's not interest I'm showing me what line and hear him I'll place this name chicken better acting the deposition he's directing the question he's conducting the inquiry that's your job August 15th 2013 the line says Joshua medium ministry same thing des I don't know what that means payroll David Taylor and it's another $5,000 $5,000 for payroll now would you announce that a payroll payments you yeah but from a disco baby they have this factored in here is I get housing allowance under the ministerial thing under the ministerial thing and yet I mean yeah you have to study like church law tax laws that kind of thing like but the the thing is at one time they were just giving me the total payroll checks of 5,000 I think every semi-weekly and I was paying out of that my you know all the expenses so you would know instead of it just going in other the money ask you a question yet you were receiving five thousand dollars in salary checks it looks like twice a month is that yes yes and as your compensation for Joshua media ministries that accurate yes and yet in that same year your w-2 shows $27,000 yes do you see a discrepancy between well into the form of the question he came to depression specific building but he's not a CPA I didn't finish the question you see the discrepancy I didn't punish it no you interrupted me like I didn't finish my question and wait for me okay do you believe that the the w2 is consistent with this ledger that shows you were paid $5,000 twice a month action calls for speculation he's not an accountant he testified he's not the financial person this is the J mmm mmm i way of accounting yes the different questions for the financial team or the CPA then you can contact them and schedule a deposition the answering conceptive Isabelle okay he can still answer the question but this is your personal ledger that right sir yeah no no no no I'm not on you is it your personal ledger it is reflecting your finances yes that you provided pursuant to the subpoena pursuant to the position in the court order okay and you're now saying you don't what understand why it lists $5,000 twice a month because I don't handle the finances you're only under your own finances and I really don't I have people who do that for me so when you get a salary track you you're you have no idea anything about it I know I've set up a team that does it for me and so I some of these questions I just can't I can't answer because of the way they have it flowing here I I can't so you present Michele Brannon for deposition social that she can answer these questions more accurately um what do you feel you're the lawyer if you want to subpoena Hertford upon time and he was willing to produce her what do you feel if you properly subpoena her and serve her with a notice so you're not going to answer voluntarily that's the question you're going to produce or voluntarily so we can just resolve the records do you mark this place what are we at - for I'm going to show you is marked is deposition exhibit number four which is the 990 form for Department of Treasury for the return of an organization exempt from income tax which you're definitely presented to me today can you identify that well I guess ya can identify that is the return for Jam of my yes all right and on page 11 of the tax return can you read line one across please yes 100 I'll read what says across the whole line Oh David II tell your CEO okay and then what's the next $40 right or 40 yeah 40 dollars that's okay read what's above it and then well okay all right um average hours per week with any hours for related organizations with lo dotted line and what does it say below that 40 hours or 40 okay representing or referring to 40 hours yeah I guess okay and what's the next block um position do not check more than one box on that person is both an officer and a director trustee say what's listed below that individual trustee individual trustee or director officer keep forty no I'm sorry I want what I want you to do is to indicate where to marked by an X as being applicable to you okay yes X and individual trustee or director t employee and highest compensated employee okay and then under subdivision D tell me what that says and what's reported for you reportable compensation for the organization 118 thousand $900 $900 so same of my ministries reported your income on their tax return is 119 thousand you know I can't answer accurately about this but I do know that all of this is not just personal income it's um allowances that go to other things so they were at first given me money but we were paying all what the ministry was supposed to pay under that code of ministry standards so I think our CPAs taught them of a more accurate way to do it and so I think there was some kind of change I don't know I can't accurately speak but I think you you would need to talk to my financial board because they all of this is accurately read down so I thought you just said there were changes and it doesn't accurately reflect reflect it know the word changes but I can't tell you little better for you to cut it you know then what well you're the CEO of the ministry yes what signs for tax return well on the tax returns right what that's returned that tax return who signs up you sign it a CEO um I think that I do I'm not quite sure about all of it you don't know if you sign a tax return the only tax return I know I found it's not personal so who would sign the Jama my tax return I mean obviously would probably be a board member or myself but I can't remember doing it I think that someone on the board does it who would that the board well I don't know I can't tell you again more than one fortress all right so you're saying that you don't think that one's accurate then because it reports 119,000 and that you think they read it I didn't say it it's not actually I just said I don't I can't give you accurate information and I instead of in front of this deposition trying to explain some I don't know I rather for to just let you know I don't know because I have other people doing this for me so the way they may eat it when this maybe it's all legitimate but the way they have it set up is the way they are doing it the best availability so it's not clear if these are the tax returns that were actually submitted based on his testimony so I need to be able to ask him if these tax returns were who they were signed by and if they were actually submitted because his testimony would seem to be that some of this was corrected and none of it are signed and he can't tell me who signed it so I have no idea if it's beat tax return or a draft so can we get a tax return that he will be able to state under oath is the tax return that was filed you for somebody in his organization yes okay so I'll be able to get well I'm sure he can is the thing oh what a position where you ask the deponent questions you want to have discussion about no I'm asking you on the record because the documents that you presented I'm not going to commit to anything on the record we can discuss this off the record and I will get you which is reasonably required ok this was provided by court order and subpoena that I was to get it and the problem is his testimony is indicating that he can't substantive enough in us my family which I am going to finish my sentence before you going to rob to provide by other people which am i but that's fine so I am asking him in compliance with the court order and the subpoena and you as his attorney will you provide me with a tax return that should have been provided today that he can attest is the actual one that was submitted can you do that and I'm telling you you will provide you with documents this is probably the one that was most likely the one that was filed well you don't have personal knowledge of it but that well that means is that you have the wrong deponent no it does not because he was asked as CEO of jmi to produce these documents pursuant to court order and the court order says he is to bring them and he can't tell me that he brought the right stuff so I'm asking you are you going to give me the right information ok we'll have this discussion multirotors no I want to have it now I want to know I don't want have to file a motion and have you have this discussion but your as attorney are you going to provide me what it was supposed to be provided pursuant to the subpoena yes or no you're asking the deponent question they're going to ask me questions yeah I want an answer to that one are you saying you won't tell me that whether or not you'll provide it I'm feeling that yes or no are you telling you're not going to do it no I just say that oh yeah I've been going out yeah I'll be exhibit I need back okay that's about this okay I think that's ours if I wrote on this list you know everyone there you go see okay I'll just show you yeah okay don't duplicate yeah all right so what is your salary at jmi now for what I know and what you know yeah I think it's around 27 to 30 thousand something like that and what expenses are you saying that Jama my pays on your behalf well it's the expenses under the law for clergy so what are they I don't know you have to go research that I don't can't tell you no I don't know everything there is no research I can do that will tell me what Jeremiah's paying for you well what I'm saying is we abide by those laws of death that's where it would be fall no sir I'm just saying I can't tell you I don't know you have no idea what expenses Haman I know a housing allowance how much is that I'm not sure I don't know what other allowance um there's I don't want to miss things so I I don't know I'll rather for someone who's professionally tell you stuff that no I'm asking about your personal not in theory what if you're adamant about reassuring stuff let me finish oh man no don't don't interrupt let me finish the question okay I'm asking what personal allowances JMM ministry provides you or stipend for housing or automobile or whatever what do they provide you you know I I know there are many allowances but it's one that I can say is housing allowance but in order for you to get the accurate name for what they allow you have to talk to a professional about it I don't want to give you this information no I'm not asking in theory what it's possible I'm asking what actually jmi provides to you jerk I've asked in that context Eddie doesn't another non-responsive I just don't know I'm just telling you this okay well that's an answer but that's not what you told me before you know if they pay any of your auto expenses yes the car the cars are in the ministries and they all belong to the ministry what those are that is not I pay for my own own car welcome Range Rover and at least owned its leaf I mean at least but it's some I bought it to pay it off in five years okay so the subject to a lien but you purchase it I'm sorry I mean you all on it yes okay so you did that Lisa no and is that what you drive in st. Louis yes who drives the Bentley my driver who's your driver um I have a number of drivers so we would say um change or cliff and they're responsible for picking up our our guests in those cars that fly in for meetings and things like that in the same thing with the 2007 mercedes-benz yes 2008 BMW yes for those owned outright or subject to any kind of loan they're owned outright there's no loan mo you know okay when you come to Michigan do you generally fly here yes and who picks you up from the airport if there is different steps it could be anyone it could be a volunteer yeah if mrs. Fraser ever picked you up from the airport no have you ever been driven around in mrs. Frazier's car when you've been in Michigan um no I are in a car mommy you've never been driven around in with this is Frasier's car I don't think I have not that I can recall I usually rent my own vehicles here or have my own vehicle driven up here from where from Missouri for the weekend no I mean I may stay here seven days and maybe 14 days but because it's so much wearing here I just rent a car while I'm up here or the ministry provides a rental car for me like we have now you've been seeing being driven around in this is Frazier's car that identified it's her car with her license plate really a recommendation and is this a question he interrupted me in front of the two of you I didn't see what the sentence you have been seen being driven around in mrs. Frazier's car with her license plate okay specifically in Taylor you arrived in that car okay at one of your events there do you not recall that I don't I don't I mean we I thought it was a rental car because we rent cars all the time we SUV so it it probably could have been our car I don't know I don't know all the details are gone when they pick me up in what color what I'm just that's not something I detail so you don't know whose car it is that means that you're being present asked and answered now you're being argumentative yeah you don't the question and said he didn't know you don't know what person's car you're being driven in and we had an answer it's fine maybe please you can still answer rental cars that's what we get rental SUVs rental most of the time I mean when I'm up here all the time actually from what I know so if I was driven in our car I wouldn't pay attention to that it wasn't like oh this is her car because I usually we have our own rental things here have you ever been to Debbie Debbie Frasier's residents no you know where she lives no you know if any members of your staff or your flock as it's been referred to today you know if any of them have been to mrs. Regis residence yes and he went there I don't know I can't tell you when his flock today not on the record doesn't matter that was the term that was not that I heard no I heard it I took hold a minute all right so you know that there have been other fasts or flock members a fellowship with each other yes okay so tell me what you know about that that's all I know that they just know each other okay what do you know about that that's all I know what do you know tell me what what do you think mean without leadership like a normal person meet up and they go out to eat or like with the with the staff I mean that's all I know well I was talking about mrs. Frazier's house and you said you were aware that staff members are visiting and been there yet okay have they spent the night here no I think they have I mean for what I've known they have said the night but I don't know the extent you know I'm not into all isn't a shelf spent tonight they're not that I know of she's to stay in a hotel for I know when she comes to Michigan if answer yesterday yes and you're saying you've never gone to mrs. Frazier's residence no I don't know where she okay you know who from the fellowship you know these fellowship gathering who specifically has gone there um no I can't say I really can't you don't know any of the names of the people that have been a well ship with her at her house I think more my staff would know that information I just know I've heard that people have so it what's your understanding of how many people would go there to her house maybe wonder if I mean they don't want to let everyone know that visited I can't ride any like I wanted to have visited or some you know how many occasions grumpy no turtle films asked and answer these questions I don't know you have an answer go um do you know if anybody from your your ministry and who you know volunteer paid board flock members who ever any of those folks have ever spent the night at mrs. Frazier's residence not that I know I don't know anybody personally I mean my staff would know more about that so you just don't have knowledge of that you know I've never been there a house I don't make it my business to go to places like that and be involved person what is your educational background high school diploma a bachelor's degree well that looks oh special okay high school from well Southside High School in Memphis Tennessee Southside High School Memphis Tennessee yes that where you grew up yes okay and next and just Nagoya University culinary arts hold on Johnson Wells and Wells University culinary arts where was that in South Carolina a remote base and what year was in 1992 we are from the remaining nine one tell Lainey from 92 92 that when he went to school there yeah did you receive any kind of degree certificate what would they associate degree in culinary arts and did you work in that capacity yes anywhere where did you work on just different restaurants as a as a chef I could cook and how long did you work in that capacity about well started before school so before I graduated so from the time I was 16 to - maybe - maybe one some like that I thought you said you got your degree there in 92 they didn't work anymore in that industry after you get your degree well maybe a little but that's when I went full-time ministry I was 19 years old and where did you go for full time ministry nowhere I didn't go to school for full-time ministry I just started doing industry for time okay what does that mean you started doing ministry tell me what that means well I mean for time means you give up your career to serve the Lord and to preach the gospel around the world in okay so we go off the record for a second oh right here that one

Channel: I Hate Liars

Views: 566,157

Rating: 4.3711791 out of 5

Keywords: church, liar, scum, david tayor, apostle, thief, bentley, limo, limoland, house, mansion, corrupt, scandal, scumbag, religious, crook, deposition, depo, court, judge, legal, law, jury, interrogation, sucker, car, bmw, donation, misuse

Id: kL0y4uO2XKs

Length: 80min 20sec (4820 seconds)

Published: Sat Feb 04 2017