If you ask me what the secret of a good
marriage... is to treat each other like you're strangers. Do this and you will
have the greatest marriage in the world! If you're hitting it off right it becomes
fun. Did he see your fun side early on? No, I wasn't so much fun then. Oh, have you become
more fun with time? Absolutely! There's no way for me to go out and find the husband, there's
no way for the boys to find a wife on their own, so we trust our parents. Seems to me
nerve-wracking for a parent to make decisions for their children. We're not the big
decision-makers! Your marriage was arranged, right? No no no no no no! What happened?
We have arranged meetings, not arranged marriages. About six months ago I introduced you
all to Pearl, a proud and vibrant Hasidic Jewish matriarch, housewife, mother, grandmother and
great-grandmother of the Satmar Hasidic sect. What I thought at first was going to be a casual
look at her Hasidic home turned into so much more as she brought us in, not just into her home,
but also into her entire world and her values, and I think in the process she touched many
hearts. And while there was a lot we talked about in that conversation, there was so much we
hadn't discussed, and so I am so glad that Pearl agreed to speak with me again on some very
big topics. And this conversation I'm again breaking up in two parts and today I present
you with part one of my discussion with Pearl: on how marriages are arranged - or not
arranged! - in the Hasidic community. foreign [Music] Pearl's faith system was fascinating to
me but she wanted me to emphasize that she comes from the perspective
not of a community authority, not of a sanctioned, spokesperson but
rather a simple housewife, a layperson, whose perspectives come not only from someone
who was raised in the community, but also who spent her entire life reading and teaching
herself and continuing to learn and to grow. Pearl is a Satmar Hasidic woman who is
a grandmother and a matriarch of a big family and... Pearl helped me out... how do we
introduce you... and I'm a great-grandmother, and a great-grandmother... And a friend...and a
friend. Thank you... and she has been so generous as to agree to talk to me again about some
big topics. We are going to talk today about arranged marriages, about modesty and women's
clothing, and lastly a topic that affects us both personally leaving the faith or as it's called
OTD, off the Derech or off the the pious path. Frieda do you know that I'm also OTD.
You're also OTD? I'm off the diet. I'm on the derech and off the diet. Well, it's Chanukah right now so we're all off
the diet, so we're allowed to eat whatever we're eating. And Pearl has some really good keto
diet cheesecake to get us towards the end of the Chanukah starting... right right right right
right right right. So what's the first topic? Well first of all you look
very different from last time. Right right right right right.
So how come you look very different? Because last time we did the interview was Erev
Shabbos [Eve of Shabbes] and I was dressed the way I'm dressed for Shabbos. I was dressed
in my white turban and in my Shabbos robe. Why. That's the way I am dressed for Shabbos.
It's your elegant.. that's my elegant attire, yes, for Shabbos. Why white? White for Shabbos.
White is a very big... it's, it's, it's a very important color. It's a color of pure... it's not
a lack of a color. It's a color. It's a color, right. It's, it's purity. It's... yes,
yes, right, mainly it's purity. I mean the Kohel Gadol wore white... (the priest in
the time of the temple) the Bes Hamikdosh [the temple]. The men wear white Yom Kippur [the
holiest day of the year], the women try to wear something white or white clothing. The Sedar
[festive meal on Passover] the men were a Kitel [white overcoat] to the Sedar... White is a color
of purity, like you say Holiness. Holiness yeah, yeah. And dark... black is the opposite...
It's, I wouldn't say black is the opposite, no, but white specifically is a color of holiness.
No color is bad, Hashem created them all. Really? No color is considered... the only color
that is considered like in women's attire is Red, is because it's very very eye-catching.
It's very, um, loud, very bold, very... so we stay away from red clothing. But
it's not that red is a bad color. We have the Para Adima, [red cow sacrificed in the
time of the temple] the red hifer! Right, right, you're right, you're right. What do you
think of my jacket though? It's beautiful. Yes? It's not only red. No, it's not only...
I'm telling you again there's no nothing no Hashem created is ever, ever bad. There's
no such thing... There is just inappropriate and appropriate. Yeah yeah... because I was
going to say black is in in the secular world black is associated with funerals... in
Williamsburg everyone's wearing black. Um, mainly because it's a practical
color to wear. It's not because this is a color that... and also it's not
a color that attracts very much. So you know the men wear of course dark
clothing and the women also sort of wear not unattractive clothing, but we don't wear
attracting clothing. That's why you'll see most of us in subdued colors, not loud colors, not um,
not colors that attract a very... eye-catching. Let's talk about arranged marriages. Pearl your
marriage was arranged, right? No no no no no no no! Your husband your children's marriage...?
no no no no, absolutely not. What happened? We have arranged meetings but not arranged
marriages. I will explain to you I'll tell you how I got engaged, how my daughters got
engaged, and my sons --- one son, the other son we'll talk about later about -- I'll talk
about how my grandchildren got engaged... Okay, so I have to start with this introduction,
that our belief system, our belief system is that Hashem created the world, and recreates
it every single day. Really? in actuality... Really. I never heard that. Yes, every day the
world is recreated. The sun comes up, you know a person wakes up in the morning and his whole
body functions, it's like a sort of recreation all the time. Our belief system tells us
that Hashem runs the world which means he runs every single minute, second, of it and we
have this constant awareness of Hashem's presence and Hashem's management of our world and ourselves
and all the things that happen in our world. So shaduchim [the Jewish system of
matchmaking] is also one of those things where we believe that Hashem has
the management of it, right, meaning, meaning - so our children become marriageable
age... let's say... oh let's talk about me. I became a marriageable age and my parents
decided that- what age was marriage? 18. That's what it says... "Shmone Esreh L'chupah",
which means at 18 you should be ready for the wedding canopy... Yeah, exactly, exactly. So
they were going to now... We segregate our sexes; the girls and the boys do not mingle. Unless
they're cousins, family. there's mingling. You know there is, like ,talking. But also as they get
older the boys and the girls, even in families, sort of the boys will stay with the boys, the
girls will stay with the girls. I mean this is some kind of... you know...
They go to separate schools...
They go to... We're talking about real family occasions now, you know. When
the family gets together in the home. So we're constantly aware of the boys
belong on the boys' side, and the girls belong in the girls' side. Now we come
to marriage. Now we have to get together, right, but really truly we're really unprepared -
how do we do this? We have no skills, we don't know how to do this. Now we raise our children in
such a way that our children respect the parents, they respect the way... they respect their
parents, period. And they trust their parents. Okay, now even though by 18 I was a big "knacker"
[personality] and I thought I knew everything... What's a knacker? What's a knacker? A big "macher"... (doer)
A personality. Not a personality, but I thought that I you know... like You thought you were already all grown up...
I thought I was already, but I knew that I still, in the issue of marriage, I have
to trust my parents. I'm not gonna, there's no way for me to go out and find a
husband. There's no way for the boys to find a wife on their own. So we trust our parents. And
the parents needed somebody to facilitate this, so it is a Matchmaker. And a Matchmaker
in our community is a respected person. Is it a... it's a profession that anyone could have.
It's a profession that anyone can have but we know who the real professionals are. I see.
And it could be a man or it could be a woman. So when anybody gets to the age of 18 the
matchmakers know who the candidates are now, so they have a list. And they, and because our
community is so intertwined, everybody knows more or less about everybody else, you know... unless
you're doing an overseas Shidduch [match] which happens also from a different country.
A shidduch is a match... right let's talk about the local ones. So my parents... The matchmakers call the parents.
"I know you have a very fine daughter and I'm thinking of a very fine boy." And and they also ask
what sort of... what things are you looking for and then they'll suggest, let's say, a boy
was suggested to me. Now the next job is for parents to try to ask around in the community
what kind of a boy is this. They'll ask the other boys who went with him to Yeshiva. "Tell
me you know so-and-so, you went with him to Yeshiva, What kind of a boy is he? What sort of a boy is
he?" They'll ask the people who Daven [pray] with him in Bes Medrish [synagogue]. "Do you ever watch this boy, you ever see this boy, know anything about the boy?"They'll call the neighbors of this family. "What kind of a family is it?" And so
there's a lot of collecting of information which doesn't take too long and it's not and it's not
like the parents have this responsibility: oh boy I better get the right information! Because in the
back of our minds we know: Hashem runs the world. And he has he has our back. Okay? In
the in the in the common vernacular. So we take the job seriously but in the
back of our minds we know we're being led. And we also have a tradition that 40 days before
conception of a child... before conception of a child Before the child is even conceived!
Before the child is conceived. 40 days before a Heavenly voice says: "The daughter of this person to this person."
So we know that it's really been arranged it's It's been arranged before conception.
We're there to do our, what we call "histadlus", which is our effort however the almighty requires us to put in
effort so this is the effort we're putting in. And my parents got enough information and
then they said they want to go see the boy. They want to see him - in those days,
don't forget there were no pictures of there's no media, there's no -
How long is it usually from when you get the matchmakers call until you go see the boy?
About a week 10 days depending on how much you can reach people that you want to reach. Okay. So my
parents said we want to see the boy. Meanwhile, they're telling me about what's going on. You know -
we got such information, we got this information, we like it, we think it's nice, the family is nice,
these people that we spoke to... we called this Rebbetzin (Rabbi's wife) and whatever. My parents went to see the boy.
Not me. Not I went along with them. They went to see the boy unofficially. Unofficially means they
still have a right to back out if they don't like what they're seeing. So how is the unofficial sighting arranged?
So they went to see him in the shadchen's [matchmaker's] had a sefarim store [book store] they went to see him in the back of
the sefarim store. Did he know he was being looked at? Of course he knew! He came from Boro Park. He was living in Boro Park where I was living in Williamsburg so he knew he was coming to be seen. Okay. And I'm waiting at home...
I'm so excited, what are they going to come back and say, you know. And then my parents come back
and they say: we liked... we liked what we saw... Did they talk to him also? Yeah. We liked what we
saw. And my mother tells me: he's very very tall. Really? Yeah, is he very tall... Not anymore. Not
anymore. At this age we're almost even. At that point he was six foot two and I was five foot two.
A foot difference yes. So I like the idea, don't ask me why. Okay, um. We liked...
we liked him. And now they want to see you Okay? So the parents came, and this was
a really more official. They came to our house. Both of my in-laws... my potential
in-laws came and we sat and we talked at the table and they went home and they said:
okay, it's time for the boy and girl to meet. Right? And usually, the boy and
girl meet in the girl's house. So they arrived with this boy - my husband - and we
all sat at the same table and about after about five, ten, minutes, the parent said: okay we're going
into another room and we are leaving you to talk to each other. What were you wearing? You don't
remember? It wasn't that wasn't important. No? No, it wasn't important. So we sit down we look at
each other and it's customary for the boy to start -- you know there's all kind of nuances over
here... I'm familiar. So it's customary for the boy to start talking. So he starts talking. I don't
remember what he said, and I'm answering him, and then at one point I tell him now I grew
up in Satmar and at that time the Rebbe was very vocal about Zionism. Here I want to pause
for a moment to explain what anti-zionism is in the context of the Hasidic movement. The Hacidic
movement is a movement of sects; groups each with its own Rebbe, its own leader, who usually
inherits the leadership from his father and will pass it on to the son. The Satmar Hasidic sect
is one of the most powerful and most important post Holocaust groups and its very first Rebbe
Joel Teitelbaum survived the Holocaust and came to America where he was one of the most important
figures in revitalizing the Hasidic movement after the war. The Satmar sect, and in particular
Joel Teitelbaum, is very well known for its anti-zionism. The anti-zionism of the Satmar Rebbe
was rooted in a belief that the Jews should not return to the land as a sovereign
self-governed people before the time, meaning before the Messiah came. And this comes from the
decree by God, one of the three Oaths that God swore upon the Jewish people, to not return to
the land before the time. And while the Satmar sect remains anti-zionist, I think the anti-zionism of
the early days during the formation of the state of Israel, had a distinct fervor behind it that
reflected the energy of the issue at the time. Also, it had been just after the Kastner trial.
So he was vocal about Zionism meaning he he rejected the zionists creed... he rejected the
Zion... and Zionist philosophy. So what did I do? The first thing I tell him is: I want you to
know I'm a very big anti-zionist. Okay? This was 18.5-year-old me, 19.5-year-old boy, a very very diplomatic opening. But I was so passionate about this... Really? I wanted to know
from the get-go, because he didn't learn... like um, I wanted him to... He wasn't Satmar? He was Satmar but he didn't learn.... he learned in the Boro Park Yeshiva that was more um Oberlander. How do you
say Oberlander... It was a little it was a little different than real Satmar Hasidim. Um, so
I wanted him to know... so he tells: me me too! Really? He says, me too! Boy, a match made in
heaven! That was what you bonded over. We didn't really bond over that but I really
wanted him to know that this was very very important to me and I didn't want to have a
marriage where we would have fights over this. what.. how is it even so relevant to
you. You're in New York. But you don't understand what Satmar means! You don't understand
that Satmar Rebbe talked constantly about it. And he cried constantly about it! You know what he said?
I'll say to you in Yiddish and you'll translate it in English. "Ver veyst vifel tzures zey vellen breyngen oif klal yisroel" Who knows how much... how many problems they will
bring on the on on the Jewish people. So what happened? Okay, so we had one meeting. Then
he went home. Now everybody goes home and the parents say: Well, did you like him? Did you like
her? I said yeah, I want to meet him again. And he said the same thing. Was it the first meeting you
had with a boy? No, it was the second meeting I had with a boy. You had a different meeting? Yes. You didn't like it?
No. It was terrible. He was a Zionist. No, no it was something, else, no. Yeah, um, so
okay. So we had another meeting. The second meeting, at the second meeting we were like more happy
with each other. I was like pretty excited about him and he was excited about me, you
know, you're younger teenagers, you're 18. And of course you look at each other:
does this person appeal to me physically it's not just the minds but what we're
really focusing on is more of an intellectual meeting of... do we see a little bit, do we
understand each other. In the talk, yes. We're not focused on the purely physical, but it's there.
How are you aware of it if you're not aware of the physical element of marriage? Who says we're not
aware of the physical element of marriage? A lot of people are not aware. Do you think we're dummies?
Even if you're not aware... Hashem created you with feelings. With hormones, active hormones by 18. I
think there are... my experience was... I wasn't naive. But we are both mavericks in our own way. No we're
not... everybody... my children weren't mavericks, no my grandchildren weren't mavericks. These children
are growing up with the knowledge that there is the goal is marriage, the goal is to have
a Yiddish family [Jewish family] the goal is to have children. So I mean at some point, even without sex
education in the schools, these kids find out what's going on. Of course nobody's talking about
it. Or the kids talk to each other. Oh, they talk to each other all the time! But they're embarrassed
to talk to the parents. Yeah yeah. You know, so we're not that dumb. And we're not that backward.
And we're not that out of touch. And we are more in touch as a matter of fact, because the
Torah it... is real. To us, Hashem this is this was this is divine. The word of Hashem
is alive. It's not a book that was written, it was the actual... we were there at Sinai.
How is that related to attraction...? What I'm trying so I'm trying to tell
you is that the Torah talks about such things . The Torah is about real human life! And when
the Aibershter [the creator] gave us the Torah he said "V'chai b'hem". Live with it. It was meant for people to
live with it! Doesn't mean that we pretend hormones don't exist. Boy-girl attraction
doesn't exist. It means it's there because Hashem put it into us. This is the way it was meant
to be. Everything that happens to us human beings is part of of Hashem's world. Including attraction
and... Yes, the first Mitzvah is multiply. The first Mitzvah in the Torah, is "Pireh V'ribe", populate the world
so it's part of our growing up we know where we came from, we know what we're doing in this
world, we know where we're going, we know we have a plan and a purpose. Do you know how... do you
know how... peaceful life is when you know when you know what... and we're committed
to this. It's not like a fairy tale. We are actually committed to all of this. And we
raise our children with this commitment, with the knowledge of this commitment. One of the
additional steps of Hasidic matchmaking which we didn't cover here but which is a very important
part of the process is genetic counseling, which every Hasidic boy and girl will receive through
an enormous organization called the Dor Yeshorim. Pearl didn't receive genetic counseling because
it wasn't available yet at the time but when we talked about it afterward she talked about the
marvel of science that the community is able to take advantage of and how the specific system of
matchmaking allows for genetic testing before the couple falls in love and becomes attached to
each other, allowing for an easy exit if the genetics don't match up. Okay, so fine. Now we're
up to the third "beshow" (chaperoned meeting). Wait, the third beshow is the third meeting. A beshow is a meeting. The beshow is the
meeting, right. So you knew you were attracted to your husband. Yes. And it was it was something
you were... I mean you look: is he bachaynte person [attractive person] right. Is he physically... am I okay with
him physically. I see. Also, besides the fact that I like talking to him and we share a lot of you
know, we discuss other things, whether you work and what are you doing, and who's your
family and things of common... Is it, is awkward? It could be, but if it's, if you're hitting
it off right it becomes fun. Did he see your fun side early on? No no no no no no. I
wasn't so much fun then. No? You become more fun with time? Absolutely! Okay so now
we're having two meetings and nobody's rushing into anything. In the morning my mother asks me:
so, you like him? I said yeah. So you want to go ahead with this, like you want to get engaged?
I think so. I wasn't madly in love with him, but I took into account that my parents actually
brought him to the house, which means that they liked it, they liked what they saw, they liked
what they heard. Now it's up to me, the big decision. Do I know 100%, am I head over heels? No. Do I see
myself getting married to this person? I think so. I think so, yeah. Okay. So should we make an
engagement? That night? Not that night, no. Okay the third beshow, the third meeting, included
the engagement. Also at your mother's house? Yes. at my parents house. And so you make this
engagement, you make a L'chaim [Jewish toast], you call over some friends, you call over some... I was
the oldest and in those days our families were very small. It was just 20 years after the
Holocaust so there was very little family to call over. But some family came over. I mean today
it becomes, today they're tremendous affairs, you know. So now the same thing happened when
my oldest daughter was ready to get engaged. She had the same attitude. She trusted her parents.
So we went to see one boy. We went to see another boy. Then we went to see... then the shadchen [matchmaker[ called us and told us about my first son-in-law. My husband and I went to see him, I don't
even think they came to see my daughter, I don't remember. And then the kids saw each
other, and again the same questions: you like him? I think I like him. Should we make an
engagement? yeah I think we should make an engagement. You never know for sure. I mean
how could you know for sure, how could you... What's your criteria for judging your
children's appropriate matches? Seems to me nerve-wracking for a parent to make decisions for
their children. Well, we are not the big decision-makers! That's the key to everything here.
There's a faith system. What do you call faith? You believe that
there's someone bigger than you doing things. That's the wrong definition for faith. Really? Yes.
Why? What you call faith we call faithfulness. Faithfulness to the idea that Hashem runs the
world. It's a faithfulness to us, to a philosophy, we know that Hashem runs the world. There's no
doubt in our minds. So we are faithful to this idea. So we believe the same thing when it comes
to shadichim [matches] and when it comes to buying a coat and when it comes to buying furniture, a house, a house.
Whatever you want. We believe that really Hashem he's running the world, and we are part of his
plan in running the world. The only place where we are boss, where we have complete autonomy and
we are the decision-makers and the deciders, is in the moral realm. Otherwise. everything is "bashert"
which means meant from above. Yes. But we have to do our effort, we have to put in our effort. I have to go to the
store to buy a coat, I have to talk to an agent when I buy a house, you have to go through the steps.
It doesn't take away from you going through the certain steps. But in the back of our minds: we'll
see. Whatever Hashem wants. There's a higher... there's a higher power making the... You know what
it does. It gives the person peace of mind. Now when it comes to our own decision in the moral realm:
do I want to help my neighbor, Hashem stays out of this. This is solely up to
the human being. Do I want to give charity? That's... Hashem stays out of this. He lets us be the total
deciders. Do I want to speak bad about this person? Hashem stays completely out of it. This is
completely and totally in our control. So when sometimes, when you say what is a person? What
is a person if Hashem is deciding everything? You know how powerful a person is, if he decides
to be good or bad? That's his whole power. The power is in making the moral decisions. That's
the power. And that is what makes a person a person. Riches, wealth doesn't make the person a person. It's what he does with his wealth what he decides to do with his wealth in the moral
realm, that decides what kind of a person this is. The place where I am stuck with this is... I... if I was
a parent... so I have a 17-year-old. If I was a parent now thinking of making decisions for a shiddich, I
think I would never be able to say "oh yeah, there's a voice that declared 40 days before conception..."
I don't think I could ever surrender to that kind of... Not that I don't... You and the rest of
the world darling! You have to be raised from you have to have it in your DNA. You have to be consciously aware of it all the time. You know Pearl, I was raised in it. Yes, you were. It
didn't, it didn't register on my DNA though. Okay. Um suppose you swallowed poison. Uh-huh. Okay. Not good. And then you swallowed... two minutes later you decided 'I made a big mistake, I don't
want...' can you tell your body to expel that poison? I'm trying to tell you you're not boss. I
say you're not boss. You're not even boss over your own body! But you say: my hand.
My foot. Right? My digestive system. You're not even boss over it, you can't expel that poison
once you swallowed it and it's in your system, So who's boss? what are you boss over? What
are you boss over? Weather you are you gonna do good or do bad, that's the only thing your boss over.
That's the only thing, it's out of your control. I hear what you're saying. These are Big
philosophical questions of how much control do we have. I don't want to get sidetracked. Go
ahead, yes, so we're talking about arranged, ARRANGED marriages. Non-arranged marriages! Not arranged! My
children said yes. Yes we want to get engaged. Okay. Mazel Tov, there's an engagement. Baruch Hashem [thank God] they're married, Baruch Hashem they're very happily married... Same thing with my grandchildren. Same story
repeats itself. When I talked to Pearl after our conversation, she emphasized that it was very
important to clarify that there is a choice for the young eligible man or woman, boy or girl,
before the match is finalized. And while typically the young kids are very excited for the match
to happen and can't wait to say yes, there are instances when they don't want the match to go
ahead, and she wanted to be very clear that no is an acceptable answer as well before the match
is finalized. Is it nerve-wracking as a parent? So only if you think that you're in charge. If
you think, "oh my goodness I have to make these decisions for my children, I can't
I can't do this," of course you can't, of course you can't. Who makes a decision
that affects the child's entire life? It's too big for you, it's too much for you know.
Were you ever a Matchmaker? Oh, I tried so many times and
never succeeded. No? Never. Never? I wanna be... I wanna make ONE shidduch in my life.
Okay, well... we'll have to work with you, bring
you lists of eligible... Everybody tries. Everybody tries. How much do you get paid if you succeed?
The going rate. The going rate keeps changing. What's the going rate today? I think it's a
$1500. I'm not even sure because I'm out of the business, you know. I'm not marrying off children
anymore, and my grandchildren are not my... it's not your bill to pay. But it's only... you only
pay the matchmaker if the match is finalized. Yes, and and they complained about that because
they complain that they do a lot of hard work before a match is finalized and nobody pays
them for that. Yeah. So there's a lot of work going into matchmaking for which they get no compensation for. But there's like... I look at these pamphlets where they advertise the matches
every week... there's like 10 matches a week, or I don't know, is it daily or weekly? You know how many
children are out there waiting for matches? It's incredible. Matchmakers must be very busy.
Now you have to understand that the children alone are going into this not a hundred
percent positive. They also trust Hashem. Right. They trust the parent. They
trust Hashem. They're also going in with the same attitude and you hope
for the best and you pray for the best because you see people who go out together
for two years or three years and then they get married and 50 of marriages end in divorce
in the United States. Now don't tell me that they had their parents as matchmakers.
Right. What do you think is the success rate of arranged marriages -- there's no arranged...
of non-arranged marriage! So sorry Pearl! What is the success rate of... only the meetings
are arranged! Hashem arranges the marriages...! okay I'm gonna say shidduch marriages, because it's matchmakers
with the... it's matches with a matchmaker. Okay, what's your question? What's the success rate, do you think? I would
say it's about 90% to 95%. What's with the ten, five percent? Divorce? Dhat's fine. And what are
their stories, are they unhappily married? Yes, of course. They're not getting divorced, they're not
getting divorced for frivolous reasons. Most of the time that they're not getting divorced for frivolous reasons.
It's serious. Marriage is serious by us. Marriage is taken very very seriously. It's
not like we're going into this marriage and um we don't understand what it means. We're
committed to this. We're committed to building a family from this marriage. So marriage
is even though our children are teenagers it's a commitment that they understand.
Pearl how long have you been married? 56 years. 56 years. And I have to tell you that my husband
was the main giver. Really? Yes. I'm not... I wasn't... it wasn't like a 50-50 giving. I could say that
he gave probably 75% and I gave 25%. I am sure you both gave. No, I'm serious. Some... It's not always
50-50. In some marriages one partner gives more. But I I got to the stage where I now
learned to appreciate what a giver he was. And is. So it motivates me to give back more
than I did when I was younger. I'm not... this is an old marriage Baruch Hashem, you
know, so yeah we understand each other, but I'm talking about when we were, I was younger.
He was a 75% giver. What do you mean by giving? What does giving mean? Giving doesn't mean
giving presents. No no no no no no no no no. He was so nice to me. He was complimentary.
He was kind. You know, he was plain kind to me. And if you ask me what the secret of a
good marriage is: treat each other like your strangers. I would be kind to a stranger.
I would be nice to a stranger. Sometimes I'm so angry I wasn't nice to him, right? Especially with
my hormones, okay. We have a good excuse. We have a good excuse. So kindness and a sense
of humor. Those are the tricks to - in my marriage to your husband is a very sweet person. He's
a very nice person. He's a very nice person. You were very lucky. Extremely lucky and I
appreciate it and I thank Hashem for it every day. And my parents thanked Hashem because
they thought nobody would be able to live with me. you um... do you think the key to to a... I don't
know I guess my question is: what happens to a Hasidic woman whose husband isn't so good to her?
Some women can take it. They learn to adapt. They learn to adjust, and they're nicer. They are the
givers. They do the bigger part of the giving. But we're not talking about abusive people,
which exists. We're not talking about them. They are the reason, they are a good reason for divorce in a
marriage where there's already children. Frivolous marriages is when a young couple
divorces right after marriage you know because of frivolous reasons. I'm talking about sometimes
in a marriage when you already end up having a few children, and you find out that the man that you're
married to or sometimes in rare cases the woman that you're married to, is abusive so the Torah
allows divorce. Okay? So abuse includes emotional abuse? Like a "shlechte" person, a mean persons?Any kind
of abuse. Any kind of abuse: physical, emotional, any kind of abuse. Abuse is abuse. I mean... it's not...
you don't say somebody is abusive when they're when they want Kigel [a traditional potato dish]. It depends, maybe they want Kigel two in the morning, they're waking their spouse. That's abuse. So what happens if... here's
sometimes a problem, and then we're gonna stop talking about, um if that's okay... Right, go ahead. What happens
if a woman is in an abusive marriage and there is so much pressure in her society to succeed in the
marriage, that she doesn't want to get out of it? There is no pressure in society, in our society, to
succeed in a marriage that is harmful to either partners. There's no pressure... you don't think
women stay in marriages because of shame and social stigma? No, no, they'll stay in a marriage
like that for the sake of the children very often, um sometimes they are so abused
that they don't see themselves as worthy of anything better. They
become damaged from the abuse. Shame and stigma I don't know. I I can imagine that it must be a factor in some,
you know, but I don't know anybody like that, shame and stigma keeping
people in a marriage because it's s'past nisht [it doesn't look good] So you think most people's
engagements, you know the arranged marriages of Hasidic communities... Did you say you arranged??
No sorry, sorry, I'm going to restart that. The um the uh the match-made, the matchmaker... the matchmaker
Why are you hands cold? My hands are always cold. The Matchmaker marriages, let's call
them. The match the Matchmaker marriages. You think most people would agree with you in the
community that it is a very joyous experience? Because in secular media it is portrayed as
divorcing all mating from the excitement and the romance, and turning it into some kind
of necessary contract. How would they know? There are people who told them.
Those who left to tell the stories. Um. I don't know. I mean... People who leave,
okay, are definitely not going to be are not not going to be good
representatives for this way of life I should tell you I left and I will tell
you my arranged marriage... I had one meeting and it was on the spot. My parents are like:
Nu?So? It wasn't this... I know that there are people who take the time. But I think
people have different experiences also. Right um true, true, yes. Did I say arranged marriage
again? Yeah, yeah, but maybe yours was arranged. I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're
saying and it happens, it happens. But again, the responsibility is not felt so great by
the parents because they always feel that "This was meant to be" whether I was the
facilitator of this marriage as a parent or not. this would have needed to happen anyhow so
there isn't that... of course somebody who leaves cannot see it this way because they don't believe.
They stop believing, so they're not good um advertisers for our way of life. They
don't represent the positive. So what are you doing tonight for the last night of Chanukah.
Um, spending it with my boyfriend. Your boyfriend who's your boyfriend [Laughter] Your boyfriend of fifty...
what's the trick to keeping things interesting with your boyfriend? "Taharas Hamishpacha". The laws of family Purity. Let me pause to briefly explain Taharas Hamishpacha. The laws of family purity that stipulate that a couple must remain entirely apart with no
physical contact during the time that a woman has her period and for seven days after her period
stops. She can be reunited with her husband after she goes to a special pool of water called a
mikvah. And it has nothing to do with Hasidim. It has to do with Jewish... Jewish life. Torah Jewish
life. All Torah Jews.. all Torah Jews, yes. It's our secret to success. It keeps a marriage
so exciting, so alive, even into old age. It's very difficult when you're young because
you're not for two weeks, you're not allowed to have any physical contact, sometimes and morphs
into two weeks, depending. But it's really 12 days. So you have no physical contact. No and no
physical contact means that you now relate to each other on a non-physical level, okay, which means
we're not just objects of desire all the time. We are people whose minds are
now engaged with our spouse. Right? The physicality is put on the side. It
also creates a tremendous, tremendous physical appetite for when it's permissible... It's a tease.
Tremendous. And it's very difficult, it's not easy when you're young, but every time
you get together again it's like a honeymoon. If you love each other. Of course, we're not talking
about dysfunctional marriages. We're not talking about abusive marriages over here. We're talking
about two normal people who like each other, okay, and who find themselves physically attracted
to each other. And young people mostly are. and this... this is a way of life for so
so so many many many years that by the time it's not relevant anymore, you have built up
a kind of a relationship with your husband that's... I don't know how to explain it... there's
excitement in it. You don't get jaded. Because you have that... because you have that kind
of a relationship built up. Let's say, let's say we get married let's say by 19, 20 and it lasts about,
let's say a person is, let's say 45. So that's about 25 years, 26, 27 years and then there's no more,
then it's not necessary anymore. Because there's no more cycle. So but you have
now a relationship with this person whom you got to know when you were young and this is
the name of the relationship, this is how it works with this really... with this person. So do you know
what a... you know what a... only Hashem could have created something like this. Only Hashem could have
told us "do this and you will have the greatest marriage in the world." It keeps the marriage
exciting. It keeps it... it keeps it alive. It keeps it young. It keeps... the word is exciting.
Okay. Like you still get excited about your spouse. Yeah, I hear what you're saying, it does make sense,
I've heard that before, it's interesting to hear. It's interesting to hear. But of
course it ends at some point. We all end at some point.
Thank you all for watching part one of my conversation with Pearl. And I thank Pearl so
much for the good time and the great cheesecake and for opening her world up to us. I hope
that all of you will stick around for part two where we will be talking about some really
big topics; the custom that married women shave their heads and we'll also talk about OTD
those who leave the faith which is another topic that of course touches me very personally.
I hope you'll stick around and also I encourage you to leave a comment - I'd love to hear
your thoughts. Bye-bye. Foreign [Music]
