MY NEXT GUEST IS A NATIONAL
CORRESPONDENT FOR THE ATLANTIC AND A MACARTHUR GENIUS. PLEASE WELCOME, TA-NEHISI
COATES! ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
( BAND PLAYING ) THANKS FOR BEING HERE! COME ON UP. ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN. >> YEAH, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT
THIS TIME. >> Stephen: A LITTLE
DIFFERENT. THE LAST TIME WE HAD A
CONVERSATION TOGETHER, I WAS IN CHARACTER ON THE COLBERT REPORT,
AND I THINK YOU MIGHT ENJOY THIS ONE MORE. >> IT'S FINE. >> Stephen: A LITTLE BIT. FOR PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT KNOW WHO
HAVEN'T READ YOUR PIECES IN "THE ATLANTIC" OR YOUR BOOKS, YOU ARE
A MacARTHUR FELLOW, NOT A GENIUS. YOU GUYS DON'T LIKE THE GENIUS
THING. YOU HAVE BEEN CALLED BY THE "NEW
YORK TIMES" LEADING BLACK PUBLIC INTELLECTUAL. >> I MIGHT PREFER GENIUS OVER
THAT. >> Stephen: INTELLECTUAL
SOUNDS LIKE YOU MIGHT BE INVITED TO LESS PARTIES. >> OR MORE BUT THE KIND YOU
DON'T WANT TO GO TO. >> Stephen: LOOKS LIKE "NEW
YORKER" MAGAZINES. >> THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT SOUNDS
LIKE. >> Stephen: WELL, YOU ARE A
LEADING BLACK PUBLIC INTELLECTUAL --
( LAUGHTER ) CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE PROTEST
GOING ON NOW STARTED BY COLIN KAEPERNICK AND CO-OPTED AS A
WEDGE ISSUE BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES JUST A COUPLE
OF WEEKS AGO. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE STATE OF
THE PROTEST NOW AND THE PRESIDENT'S RESPONSE? >> WELL, IN TERMS OF THE
PRESIDENT, I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S BEEN VERY, VERY SUCCESSFUL. IT'S THE NATURAL COURSE THAT
PROTEST STARTS IN A REALLY RADICAL PLACE AND ENDS WHERE IT
IS NOW WHERE IS JERRY JONES AND THE DALLAS COWBOYS TAKING THE
MESSAGE OF UNIT WHICH IS NOT THE MESSAGE WHEN IT STARTED. ALL PROTEST FACES THAT ISSUE. BUT THE FACT THAT KAEPERNICK,
WHO IS NOT ON AN N.F.L. TEAM, BY THE WAY, ACTUALLY FORCED THE
LEAGUE TO AT LEAST IN SOME WAY ADDRESS THIS. I THINK IT'S SIGNIFICANT. THE SECOND THING IS, PEOPLE ARE
LESS AWARE OF THIS, COLIN KAEPERNICK MADE A PLEDGE TO GIVE
AWAY A MILLION DOLLARS AND IF YOU GO TO HIS WEB SITE TO
VARIOUS ORGANIZATIONS, YOU CAN SEE HOW MUCH MONTH HOW MUCH HE'S
GIVING AWAY, THE ORGANIZATIONS HE'S GIVING IT TO AND WHAT THE
MONEY HAS GONE TO. SO I THINK IT'S BEEN VERY
SUCCESSFUL, ACTUALLY. ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT, WELL, THIS IS AN
INAPPROPRIATE PLACE TO PROTEST, YOU'RE POLITICIZING A VENUE. >> IT'S NEVER APPROPRIATE. >> Stephen: IF YOU'RE
COMFORTABLE WITH THE PROTEST, IT'S NOT A PROTEST. >> NO, NO, IT'S NEVER
APPROPRIATE. YOU SEE THIS FROM TIME TO TIME. YOU SAW IT WHEN "BLACK LIVES
MATTER." THERE'S AN IDEA, FOR INSTANCE,
DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT MARTIN LUTHER KING WAS REALLY
POPULAR. CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS WERE
EXTRAORDINARILY POPULAR AND APPROPRIATE AND PEOPLE APPROVED
OF THEIR PROTESTS. UNFORTUNATELY OR FORTUNATELY, WE
HAD POLLING DATA FROM THAT PERIOD, AN IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO
HOW PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT N.F.L. PROTESTS TODAY. MARTIN LUTHER KING HAD A PIECE. IN 1966, 60% OF AMERICANS
DISAPPROVED OF MARTIN LUTHER KING SPECIFICALLY AS A PERSON. HE DIDN'T GET KILLED OUT OF
NOWHERE. THAT CAME OUT OF A WAY THAT THE
COUNTRY FELT ABOUT HIM. IT WAS ONLY AFTER HIS DEATH HE
BECAME DEFIED AND AMERICANS APPROVE OF HIM. >> Stephen: THE MAJORITY OF
AMERICANS DIDN'T APPROVE THE BUS BOYCOTTS OR THE MARCH ON
WASHINGTON. >> NO, WHY WOULD THERE? IF THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS
APPROVED THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR A PROTEST IN THE FIRST
PLACE. ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: YOU HAVE A NEW BOOK. IT'S CALLED "WE WERE EIGHT YEARS
IN POWER, AN AMERICAN TRAGEDY." SO THE EIGHT YEARS YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT IS BARACK OBAMA'S PRESIDENCY. WHAT IS THE TRAGEDY? >> THE TRAGEDY IS THAT YOU HAVE
A PRESIDENT WHO IS EFFECTIVELY CONDUCTING DIPLOMACY WITH A
NUCLEAR ROGUE STATE VIA TWITTER. THAT HAS THE POSSIBILITY OF
HAVING VERY, VERY, VERY TRAGIC. THE FACT THAT YOU'RE EVEN IN
THAT POSITION. EVERY DAY SOMETHING NEW HAPPENS
AND I THINK WE FORGET HOW FAR GONE WE ACTUALLY ARE. AND THE CASE I MAKE, YOU KNOW,
IN THAT BOOK IS THE VERY SITUATION WE FIND OURSELVES IN
WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE WITHOUT THE REACTION TO THE FIRST BLACK
PRESIDENT. THIS IS ACTUALLY IN MANY WAYS A
DIRECT RESULT OF IT ( APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: IT DOES SEEM A LOT OF WHAT DONALD TRUMP IS DOING IS
MOTIVATED MERELY TO TRY TO REVERSE SOMETHING THAT BARACK
OBAMA DID. >> EXACTLY. THERE'S BEEN JOURNALISM ABOUT
THIS. THE FIRST THING HE WANTS TO KNOW
IS WHAT WAS OBAMA'S POSITION ON IT. >> Stephen: YOU HAVE HAD A
HARD TIME IN SOME INTERVIEWS EXPRESSING A SENSE OF HOPE THAT
THINGS WILL GET BETTER IN THIS COUNTRY. >> YES IS THAT DO YOU HAVE ANY
HOPE TONIGHT FOR THE PEOPLE OUT THERE ABOUT HOW WE COULD BE A
BETTER COUNTRY, HAVE BETTER RACE RELATIONS, BETTER POLITICS? >> NO. ( LAUGHTER )
BUT I'M NOT THE PERSON YOU SHOULD GO TO FOR THAT. YOU SHOULD GO TO YOUR PASTOR. YOUR PASTOR PROVIDES YOU HOPE. YOUR FRIENDS PROVIDE YOU HOPE. THERE ARE FIGURES THAT EXIST --
IN BETTER TIMES, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES PROVIDES
YOU HOPE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THAT
KIND OF MORAL PLACE IN THE WORLD. THAT'S NOT MY JOB. THAT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S JOB. >> Stephen: I'M NOT ASKING YOU
TO MAKE (BLEEP) UP. ( LAUGHTER )
I'M ASKING YOU IF YOU PERSONALLY SEE ANY CHANCE FOR CHANGE IN
AMERICA? >> MAYBE. MAYBE. I WOULD HAVE TO MAKE (BLEEP) UP
TO ACTUALLY ANSWER THAT QUESTION IN A SATISFYING WAY IS THAT WHAT
ABOUT THE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS IN AMERICA? WE HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL SYSTEM,
DEMOCRACY ITSELF WHILE NOT RUBBER IS PLASTIC AND AS THE
DEMOGRAPHICS CHANGE, AS WHITE PEOPLE BECOME THE MINORITY IN
THE COUNTRY WHICH IS COMING, DO YOU SEE A CHANGE FOR --
>> YOUR QUESTION PRESUMES THERE IS A STATIC DEFINITION OF
WHITENESS AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THERE'S BEEN DEMOGRAPHIC
CHANGE BEFORE. >> Stephen: WHO GETS TO BE
WHITE NEXT TO MAKE SURE WE OUTNUMBER BLACK PEOPLE. >> IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE. IRAN, JEWS, ITALIANS WERE NOT
CONSIDERED WHITE. THINGS CHANGE. IN THE VERY DEFINITION OF
WHITENESS BEING MALLEABLE, THE ABILITY TO VOTE AND ACCESS TO
THE POLITICAL SYSTEM IS ALSO A MALLEABLE THING, ALSO. SO YOU MIGHT HAVE A POSSIBILITY
OF THE DEMOGRAPHICS ACTUALLY CHANGING, BUT WHO HAS THE
ABILITY TO USE THOSE DEMOGRAPHICS IN AN ELECTORAL
SYSTEM THAT MIGHT ALSO CHANGE, TOO? >> Stephen: I HOPE YOU'RE
WRONG. >> I HOPE I'M WRONG, TOO. ( APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: TA-NEHISI COATES, THANKS FOR BEING HERE. >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME. >> Stephen: "WE WERE EIGHT
YEARS IN POWER" RACIAL SIGHT NOW.
TA-NEHISI COATES, EVERYBODY. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK!
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
