Stuff Made Here reacts to Lock Picking Lawyer beatdown

welcome to my stream we're going to be doing something really uh requested in the last week which is watching the lock picking lawyers video about my lock and uh obligatory of course if you haven't seen the lock picking lawyers video don't watch this it's not going to make any sense and it's going to spoil it so just go watch that i'll put a link in the description and what i'm going to do is just go through it and talk about kind of my thoughts on what happened and how i might fix the things and just kind of give a bit more information on how it all went down and it looks like we got 15 people in here so let's just jump into it let's see i'm going to pause a lot and stop to talk so i don't talk over him i think that it just is clear this is the lockpicking lawyer and the video you're about to watch is the culmination so uh something that a lot of people seem to think at least based on the comments that i've gotten is that i had no idea it was going to happen until i saw this video and that's not the case at all i was talking to him the whole time and i knew basically exactly what was going to happen i wasn't sitting there thinking like oh man am i gonna be screwed or whatever and uh it is interesting one of the attacks i'll talk about this more when it comes up he found out like hours before this video went live so that one that was a bit of surprise i still knew about it of a series of events that started about six months ago that's when shane at the excellent youtube channel stuff made here posted a video build of an unpickable lock that video which i will link below also challenged me to open it it is just so weird the probably the strangest thing about this video is just seeing my locks in someone else's video just watching a lockpicking video where it's like i made that lock and he's holding it messing with it it's just i don't know i found it like surreal and very strange to see i obviously accepted because the lock is here but shane wanted to improve his design first and by improve he seems to have meant completely redesigned from the ground up that wasn't actually my intention going into this so my plan originally when i made this lock i knew about the pin drop attack i noticed it when i was editing the video some other people noticed it right when i posted the video and what i was originally planning to do is fix the pin drop attack by putting a special cam that wouldn't it would basically force the mechanism that holds the pins up from being released so you just can't drop them and then a few other little changes and i was going to send that to the lock picking layer i basically was not happy with the number of pins and some other stuff that i talked about in my video so i sat down and i was like okay if i just take a slight design pass on this could i add five pins could i make it a little better and then like the next day i had a completely different design block and then i said okay well what i'm gonna do is just quickly make this you know in like a week and then send it to him and then he can pick both i wasn't actually planning to make a video about it but then of course i ran into so many problems as i was making and getting working i was like you know what i'm going to make a video because this is interesting enough i didn't think it would be but turned out to be so that's kind of how i worked my way into making a video in a whole new lock was not intentional i also wasn't working on it for six months it was like the last three or four weeks because what i received was the original lock and a second lock which bore no internal resemblance to the first and i have to say i had a great time with these because both mechanisms are to the best of my knowledge completely original and in so that that right there and the entire video is the thing that makes me the happiest the fact that he is saying that at least as far as he knows they're original so something i didn't do when i went to work on these locks is look at other locks i don't actually know much about locks i know how they work but i'm not a lock picker and i intentionally didn't because i didn't want to bias myself so if i looked at how other people made strong locks i would just end up making that lock rather than something interesting and something hopefully new and so that ended up hurting me a little bit as as you know if you've seen this video but it did i think help me come up with some interesting ideas because i just didn't have anything to draw from other than my own imagination in my opinion quite good fortunately for me though shane doesn't have a lot of experience with locked defeat methods so there were a few minor oversights that i was able to exploit i felt that in my soul when he said that the issues i found can be fixed with very little effort which would result in formidable lock designs before we pick these i want to explain what i'm so one other little point on the original lock and why i didn't fix it so the first reason is that it it didn't seem fair to make a video saying i've made an unpickable lock and then change it before i sent it to him it seemed a little disingenuous and so i wanted to just leave it in the state that it was and then the other reason was that i thought there was a good chance he could actually exploit that weakness and i wanted him to have a win like if i just made locks that he couldn't pick that's not interesting really it's much more interesting if he can find a problem and then and then i fix it or whatever you get to learn something and it's much more interesting and then also from his perspective it sucks to be set in locks and then if you can't pick them it's like that's pretty lame for him and so i wanted him to have a win that's the other reason i didn't change it and i didn't know how the second one would go or not so that felt like a safe thing i could do i'm going to do so my actions don't look too cryptic that will require some reference to the internals but if you want a detailed look at what's inside you need to check out the stuff made here he said if i limited the pin drop he doesn't know how he can get through the first one the first lock this one looks something like this on the inside so this is kind of funny i he was asking me for some cads that he could explain how they work and i was like well i can send you the 3d files i can send you video what do you want and he's like i just want a picture so i can print out on a piece of paper it's like all right it was easy to do but we have very different styles when you insert the key the pins in contact with the key will lift these upper pins that are shown in gold those pins then lock into place and rotate until they're in contact with this fin there are gates in the fin and only if these upper pins are in the correct position will they pass through notably however i think i talked about this attack in a patreon post months ago they are no longer in contact with the key pins that's what makes this unpickable in theory what i'm going to do is lift the other neat thing about this lock that i never i don't think i ever talked about it is that you can actually have two different keys because there's two sets of gates that it has to go through you can have a key that locks it and you have a different key that unlocks it and i think that's kind of interesting i haven't i'm sure there's locks like that but i haven't seen them all of the upper pins as far as they will go lock them in place rotate them until they're in contact with the fin and then drop them down until they fall into their gates it usually takes a few attempts for it to work but the method seems to be reliable the second lock is even more complex than the first it actually has two chords i had a hard time trying to get a picture that wasn't totally insane look at the back we can see the rotator do any uh animations connecting rod the sheer line that matters is the one on the upper core which we can't access detention it's behind this area of the lock the the whole thing about in theory is that bottom core i mean that's by about 45 that's kind of been the whole story is these are theoretically unpickable that's why and that was actually one of the goals of this collaboration teach me how to be when you make them that's the pins you can in reality and when you're nearly unpickable there'll probably always be some way to get through them but as close to unpickable try to get around that by inserting a thin piece of metal between the door and the lock housing then slide it up until we're over the top of that upper core so when when he told me about this one we were talking on the phone about this before he was even going to do it and it was like a total face palm because i had thought about this and in my mind i had always been thinking about just picking being going through the keyway and getting through the lock i i had been thinking about in the context of maybe drilling through and accessing the back of the lock to pull that arm not sliding through like that but it would have been so easy to prevent this i did send him a piece that did it took me like an hour to make i should have just done it but i did not i think it made finishing exploit though because it allowed him to actually pick it and everyone really wanted to hear him say we have a click out of three and and all that which he did or and then pull down which should tension the upper core once that happens i should be able to pick this as i would a normal lock the custom tool that i had mentioned was actually for decoding so he talked about modifying a lychee tool which this core essentially allows you to push the pins up and then measure how far they go until it sees it and then that could allow them to decode it but being misclocked because i have totally non-stock pin lengths and spacings it would have been a lot of work but i think it would chuckle probably not worth it because i can fix that attack literally just by changing coding and we can do that because all of these upper driver pins are the same length when i was talking to him i thought about sending him another lock like just really quickly making one that had all the fixes pressing the spring and it didn't seem sportsman like of measuring the key the rules of engagement i thought what people wanted to see was me make my best one and then give it to him and that's something that you said to me try to get through it for manufacturers and it didn't seem fair to like thanks he tells me how i could do it just quickly too long the jig that shane sent me to pick these in is way too big to fit on my desk so we are going i like how he calls the door a jig down to the garage the front door for a little person or a dog down in the garage both locks are mounted in this mock door and the frame is secured to my workbench all right we're going to start i do wish i would have added more send discussive vulnerability accessories to the door the fact that this core will turn if i told him he had to have a welcome mat i actually bought a silk screen kit to make a welcome mat for stuff in here interacts with the device under normal circumstances a deadbolt that is fully extended can't be pushed back into the door however if we turn this core as soon as it will go it's just enough to this exploit he found mechanism like that's something in the middle of the night before posting this video the door is locked all we need to do that we need something that will turn the core and something yeah there's no chance for me to fix it or anything so and then another thing a lot of people ask me about is why why is there such a big gap between the door and the jam or whatever you call that and it's actually geometric so that is as small as i could possibly make that gap and the door still being able to open as the door gets smaller and smaller the distance that the back edge protrudes as you open it relative to the door frame increases so you can imagine if the door was a millimeter thin as it rotates you need to gap half the width of the door for it to be able to open and then as it gets longer and longer that approaches zero that's why there's such a big gap i don't know much about doors which is why i built it backwards uh i just looked at an interior door and then just made that i should have flipped it around like an exterior door and then this attack also wouldn't have been possible oh then use the point of the knife too it is pretty funny though like this is exactly the kind of dumb thing that i was expecting to miss and uh i was like oh of course that's all i cared about i don't even think about the damage to the door however i don't think it'll be a lot of damage and i don't think it'll be very noticeable because it'll be on the bottom however i will show you the damage after we're done the hard part will be getting so there was actually a gap in the door that he could have just gone through uh it was very sportsmanlike for him not to he was like pushing the tool i don't think you meant to leave this here so it doesn't and so he didn't go through the little gap i i was actually with my family when this video premiered i was in uh another city traveling and we all watched it together and the when he opened it with the knife they thought it was hilarious but the only way to be sure is to pull on these pliers the doorbell rings the pins are buying i think that's the best part of the whole video click out of one little click on two nothing on three little click on four little click on no i wish he would have opened the envelope he actually forgot i was talking to him before the videos premiered and i asked him if he opened up the envelope and he's like oh no i forgot and he thought it was really funny and i i will give him a new lock i promised within two years so i got plenty of time i i think the minimum viable product there is just fixing these three inches the doorbell is so good and that would be really really easy to do i already fixed the let's work on the rear access once again i just although i feel like if i did another one i would probably while we were upstairs put a little more into it than just changing those things but practice we'll see first we need to lock it okay i'm going to use this pick to lift all the i like his little cut down key so he can access the pins but lock and unlock it it's pretty cool so what are you saying to me is that this this one and usually would work like i'm going every few times not every time and so you're super happy when it just worked on the first try troll as the pins come down and it increases the chances of success from about one in every ten times to one in every two or three yeah two or three so something that i was gonna do and what i would do [Music] with this lock is you've got it basically add false gates so even if i make even if i make it so he can't use that little key to push lock them and then release them like he did it's still possible hitting with a hammer or backups doing whatever you could make the pins fall some everything and so what i would do okay folks we are back upstairs what i would do is add basically a fake indentation so that if he does find a way to get the pins to drop they'll get trapped in a little slot and then they can't drop any further so if you put one or two of those on a couple of the pins then i think it would i don't know how you could possibly do that attack even with the drop i just need to find a way to fit more pins into it and i'm going to briefly address how to fix each of the exploits i demonstrated but first let's take a look at the damage to the door it's certainly noticeable once the lock is screaming much of the damage is covered by the lock and the part that isn't is my daughter loves my screaming goals it's underneath the bulky housing frankly even if i saw that i'd probably attribute it to sloppy installation and not to an attack i thought it's really interesting how much he focuses on damage and i guess in the lock picking world there's picking the locks and then there's figuring out if someone picked or tried to pick your locks and so picking locks without leaving any trace is is really important and really hard to do and so like the damage on the door i wouldn't even have considered that at all but it seemed to really weigh like in his decision making on how to pick it uh how to do it is how to do it without leaving any damage is important another thing that he had talked about that was i thought he was going to do for that attack was actually just drill a very small hole in the bottom and the idea is that who looks at the bottom of their lock right unless you're actually a high security facility and you check for that kind of stuff i would never even notice a little hole and so you can drill a tiny hole reach up and then grab that mechanism to pick it and it's effectively not leaving a trace in most cases while we're looking at the door note that shane welded both of the hinge pins probably to stop me from popping the pins and declaring victory and i've got to say he did the right thing because i thank goodness he would have done that moving on to the locks the issue that would have been the first block can be fixed easily one too many exploits the angle of the fins so there's no slope for them to rest on frankly a reverse rake would probably be advisable with the second lock the first exploit can be fixed with a slight modification to this moving tail piece re-clocking that cutout by about yeah if he if he wouldn't have found that issue literally the night before i would have sent another piece at least just to demonstrate how easy of a fix this is this part takes five minutes on the cnc like it would i could i could go make one come back within 10 minutes probably and so it's super simple but it was wrong whoops 45 degrees there are about a dozen ways to fix the picking exploit and deny i did condition the pine first but when i just don't know how to do uh stain machined a back cover which is probably the most expensive solution but certainly one that works yeah that solution is terrible i hope you all enjoyed this shake it's really fast excellent work on these locks and thank you so much for sending them my way to everyone else that's all i have for you today if you do have any questions or comments about this please put them below if you like this video and would like to see more like it please subscribe and as always subscribe thank you uh yeah so the uh i i thought this was really interesting overall maybe if i sat and really thought about it for a long time and watched videos i could have figured these things out but it would have been really easy to just never even notice the deadbolt thing the reason that he didn't notice it until right before posting is that he had been working with the lock not in the door which is exactly what i did too like i never really put it in the door to work on it i always just had it loose it wasn't until he put it in the door and was like filming i think he's like oh wait a second i can do this and i'm sure he grinned a lot because that's a great find i i think based on my discussions with him if i were to fix those three things there there really isn't any more known non-destructive entry methods there probably is more things if you send it to more people so something that i'm considering doing is maybe souping up making a few more and just sending it out to people for fun i know there's some other lock pickers on on youtube and other places that would love to try it so i might do that i don't want to make them myself though but if i can find a way to get them made i might do that and then my main gripe with this is that it it just isn't a production lock the the solid shroud that is made from a billet of aluminum it actually is pretty important structurally and mechanically for the lock functioning i i think that it would need at least one more kind of architectural redesign to make it not sensitive to tolerances easier and cheaper to make it would likely change it enough doing that that any hardening of this lock would sort of become irrelevant kind of like the first lock if i made the first lock more uh more hardened and more that this lock is so different that none of that even applies that's kind of what i'm thinking about if i make another lock is do i just want to try to fix those things and do it again seems kind of boring i would like to see at least some real progress towards a real lock although i still don't have any intention on selling this but i'm not sure something to think about i'm definitely not working on it now i'll probably be working on it i don't know some point in the future i've got a lot of stuff queued up i actually just got some really sweet motors that i'm going to be using for basketball hoop v4 and it is going to be if it works very cool and then i'm going to be working on the edm as well and then there's probably four more things after that before i could possibly work on the lock again but it'll probably happen talking with lock picking lawyer he had he had some pretty good ideas he knew some other lock designs that are much cheaper in particular wafer locks that could be made to like breed with mylock and then make something really cheap and so that's just another thing that i'm thinking about so i'm curious if anyone has any questions or anything that they want to know about i i wish i would have thought of like doing this live while he just launched his video that would be kind of fun didn't even occur to me hopefully y'all enjoyed it it doesn't look like there's too many other comments or questions and as always feel free to drop questions and discord and hope you enjoyed it this is a recording of a patreon only live stream that i did a couple weeks ago i'm planning to do these q a live streams for my future videos so if you'd like to get in on that and also support my videos check out my patreon

Channel: Stuff Made Here 2

Views: 2,271,855

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Id: xjVS-g_ss84

Length: 23min 27sec (1407 seconds)

Published: Mon Jun 14 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/LabGecko]

That series introduced me to your channel, and I have never liked a YT recommendation more