>>> BIDEN AND FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP MEET FOR A DEBATE IN JUST OVER A MONTH. WE WANT TO BRING IN FRANK LUNTZ, FIL INC. POLLSTER AND STRATEGIST. THANKS FOR COMING IN. >> WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THIS, NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THE RULES. FOR EXAMPLE, ARE YOU STRANDED OR SEATING? >> FOR THE DEBATES. >> IF YOU'RE STANDING, THAT WILL HELP TRUMP, THAT'S HOW HE PERFORMS. SEATED, THAT BENEFITS BIDEN. ARE YOU GOING FOR A 90-SECOND RESPONSE, TWO MINUTES, THREE MINUTES? IT'S TO BIDEN'S ADVANTAGE. TRUMP LIKES THE SHORTEST THE BEST. THAT'S WHEN SOUND BITES ARE THE BEST. THERE WILL BE NO AWE JENS, NO CHEERING, NO APPLAUSE. HOW DO YOU SHUCH THE MICROPHONE OFF AS TRUMP TRIES TO SPEAK OVER BIDEN, HOW YOU HAVE THAT INTERCHANGE LOOKS AT WHO WINS OR LOSES. NOBODY IS PLAINING FOR JUNE 27th. I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S NECESSARILY GOING TO HAPPEN. >> REALLY. I THINK IT'D WEIRD -- THAT EITHER OF THEM WOULD AGREE TO A DEBATE BEFORE THE RULES ARE SET. >> THAT'S WHAT I THINK WILL HAPPEN. THAT ONE OF THE CANDIDATES WILL SAY, UH-UH, I'M NOT DOING IT THAT WAY. THOLE RULES WILL DETERMINE WHO WHIPS OR LOSES. >> IF THE DEBATE IS CALLED OFF, DOES IT HURT THAT CANDIDATE, MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE THEY'RE AFRAID? >> MAKE NO MISTAKE, THE PUBLIC DIDN'T WANT ALL THIS POLITICS, BUT THEY DO WANT TO SEE THESE TWO PEOPLE GO APT EACH OTHER. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THESE TITANS RIPPING EACH OTHER APART FOR 1% OF AMERICA. >> HOW DOES RFK, THE PERSON WHO WON'T BE ON THE STAGE, POTENTIALLY CHANGE THAT? >> BY TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS WITH OWLS AND APES AND DOING WHAT HE'S DOING RIGHT NOW. IN THE END, HE'S GOT AN INTERESTING, INTRIGUING MESSAGE. IT'S NOT MAINSTREAM, BUT IT CAN APPEAL TO THE FRINGE ELEMENTS. HE NEEDS THAT 15% TO GET INTO THE DEBATES, AND I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO GET THERE. >> HE MEADES 15% TO GET INTO THE DEBATES, BUT HE DOESN'T NEED THAT TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME. >> THAT'S CORRECT. WE SAW RALPH NADER GOT 1% OF THE VOTE IN 2000 AND CHANGED FLORIDA. ALL IT TAKES FOR RFK IS TO DAY ONE DAY. THAT COULD BE THE DIFFERENCE. I'M ALSO WATCHING YOUNG AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN IN STATES LIKE GEORGIA, NORTH CAROLINA, THE LATINO VOTE IN STATES LIKE ARIZONA AND NEVADA AND THE UNION VOTE IN PHILADELPHIA AND PENNSYLVANIA, MICHIGAN, AND WISCONSIN BECAUSE THESE BLOCKS ARE GOING TO DECIDE WHO WINS AND WHO LOSES, AND THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY SHIFTING RIGHT NOW. TRUMP'S WEAKNESS IS MIDDLE AGE, MIDDLE INCOME SUBURBAN WOMEN WHO REALLY DON'T WANT TO SEE HIM BACK, AND SO YOU'VE GOT THAT BALANCE GOING ON RIGHT NOW. >> INTERESTING YOU MENTIONED THE UNION VOTE BECAUSE BOTH OF THESE CANDIDATES ARE VYING FOR THE UNION VOTE. THIS IS A DIFFERENT SORT OF RACE THAN WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST. BIDEN SAYS HE'S THE MOST PRO-UNION VOTER EVER, BUT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP. HE SHOWED UP ON THE PICKET LINES IN MICHIGAN. >> YOU RAISED THE MOST FASCINATING POINT. THE UNION LEADERSHIP IS LINED UP, ALMOST ALL O
