Single vs Twin Engine? InTheHangar Ep 53

in an engine emergency is it always better to have two one versus two we're talking about that in the hangar I used to be a lot respected member of the aviation community and until 2 or 1 what's better well we're gonna find out today in the hangar we're gonna be talking to a couple of pilots each one has had an emergency one in a single-engine and one in a twin and let's so let's dive in to see what's better so joining us again Joe Casey Joe thank you very much you are the malibu guru of this area I've been called that there's some other people to have that title too so really well I mean unofficial are you the amalgam one of I spend a lot of time in the PA 46 world all the variants and so that that term gets thrown around a little bit but I'm one of the guys and then Robert Johnson thanks for coming back onto the show Robert as you've got so much experience overall wide depth of things so you fly everything from your citta Bria to to t-28s for air shows but for a long time in many many hundreds of hours you've flown a Cessna 421 twin-engine okay so let's jump right into it you've had an emergency an engine emergency in your 421 tell me about that story well we were flying back from a college football game and I had a buddy of mine on my right-hand seat and our two sons in the back and we're flying along about 21,000 feet and just talking about airplanes and all sudden my left engine kind of got stupid on me I went from 31 inches a minute full pressure down about 15 I got my attention pretty quickly started to send a little bit engine ran a little rough I went ahead and shut it down and feathered and declared an emergency and landed the airplane it's probably a little more to the story than that went on a little longer but it was kind of a little bit of a non-event I think the biggest issue was making the decision to feather the genna's shut it down and once I did that it was okay now I'm gonna go land a CCC was great they said Tupelo Airport turn right and it's about 30 miles off your nose and looked at my map Tupelo at 7,000 foot runway I had crash Fire and Rescue on field had a tower and I knew the airport landed there before and I said okay it looks good but I was still at 21,000 feet and had to get down and took a while to get down there landed single-engine fire trucks rolled and that was kind of that was kind of it maybe you drinking coffee in the FBO much when you had that emergency when the when the engine goes from 25 to 15 you're still getting at least a little bit of thrust I mean what went into the decision-making that I'm gonna shut this thing down and feather it so a couple things number one in a turbocharged engine you don't know why you lost turbo it could be a lot of different reasons it could be as simple as the turbo decided to say I don't want to play anymore I also could have been a hole in the exhaust system that's spilling 1600 degree gas onto a fuel line and that could end very badly in my case I didn't know it at the time but what had happened is one of my cylinders had head separation and it actually knocked pulled my induction tube out so that's where all the manifold pressure went and almost not to feel rail off so I almost had a fuel issue and I didn't but I didn't know that at the time that had been a fire oh yeah it could have been so it was I'm at the end of the day I made the right decision in starting the engine down if I was flying a single what I've shut the engine down no I wouldn't have I would have kept flying because I didn't know what's going on but the engine also did start to run a little rough on me which would not have been normal for a simple simple turbo ending and what happened was my Ida cylinder that was I had a about a two inch crack in the head of the cylinder and you can actually see the piston in there after the fact so it's kind of went oh that all went through my head making the decision but it is a lot of an easier decision to make in a twin when you have two engines I can shut it down and still be able to make the airport obviously all right so that's two engines Joe single engine Malibu you're at altitude to me your new Mirage which is lycoming engine and I was at 15,000 feet in crews above and under cast that started at about 10,000 I lost my engine completely oil literally was being thrown out of the holes that were shrapnel that was happening in cowling and oil and all over my windscreen it was a definite engine failure you know no doubt about it and there wasn't it not going to be a restart I ended up gliding to make a very long story short very very short I ended up gliding down over a 4,000 foot runway down through the clouds and at about 1,200 feet popped out of the clouds with a runway right up underneath me oh wow and was was able to make a successful landing engine out and no vision no vision it was you know it was our very little you know when people say you get oil in the windscreen and you can see through the oil I can tell you right now now you're not seeing you you cannot see through that oil there's another reason have twin it was fortunately for me there was on the right-hand side windscreen of the right windscreen there was about a three or four inch area where no oil was there I was able to jump over into the right seat headset flew off and pressed my head up against the side and was able to see enough runway to land and it was a you know one time shot you got to make it and and I did all the training comes to life there and you you you you you go into this deep reserve of training that you've got to be able to do what you need to do to be able to land the airplane for me it worked out alright I only have a few hours in multi so I'm not multi rated yet at this point when you are going in to land and you had shut down your left engine and feathered it did you have the option of going around I don't know I wouldn't have put it that way when the airplane have gone around maybe but I really didn't want to try that so one of the sins I made was I went for an airport that'll really long right 7,200 foot runway and that was a very conscious decision to find a runway that was long that had a tower and also had crash Fire Rescue on the field thankfully we didn't need it could have gone around I'm glad I didn't have to find out right yeah okay so for all of us pilots who have started in our single engines and we own a single engine and we we here oh you know I'd only go with two engines it's the only safe way to fly would let's start with the single engine guy obviously no there's you know that one of the things that I fly single engines a lotta fly multi-engine as well there's advantages to both sides but there is a statement to be said put all on your all your eggs in one basket and watch that basket I mean hang a good engine on the front of an airplane is a great thing and it no words it's that's a wonderful wonderful thing so and there's some definite efficiencies that come from single-engine meaning I have two tanks one in each wing feeding one engine so usually the range of a single-engine airplane is going to be better arguably than than a multi-engine airplane of certain types so there's some and you have the fuselage where you have an engine sitting in front so you have better efficiency I don't have these two big things out on the other side that are drag that cause drag so a single-engine airplane is going to be more efficient so in most regards so there's some real reasons that a single-engine airplane is is a fine airplane but a single-engine airplane that has a either a questionable engine or a bad engine and that's not you know you need a good engine and you need to watch that engine I would think that that argument would go over twins as well I mean you need to good anything one good and one I agree with everything Joe said I fly a lot of singles as well and the reason I bought the 421 was really there wasn't a single that could do what I wanted to do which is what which would have been probably maybe a pc-12 would have been there no but what was your mission that you know we just I need to carry six people and a lot of gear and long ranges and pressurized and fast and their system you look at there's not a single engine today that's changing though but there's a 421 with some price point yeah a single-engine turboprop so the pc-12 or maybe a t-wayne now yeah your way there's more Commons than that than I was exactly exactly yeah but let me say this is well that the it's tight today the hottest thing on the market is a single-engine turbine I mean all the manufacturers are putting out you know their latest and greatest that they're that they're putting out today our single engine turbines serious has the new one CBN's got a great one m600 is out as out flying with its you know all every those are great those are great but for me there's a bit it's got too many comments for me on when you get to that point true it you know well i guess that's just that's just the issue you know another benefit talk about would be engines but the accessories on a twin as well you've got a couple of you've got two of everything you've got two back in pubs in a piston you've got two hydraulic pumps two generators you've got more engine overhauls 12 cylinders 24 spark plugs except so yeah there's there's not just the engines that are your backups you really have other systems in there as well and it tends to be in most cases more complex more robust systems in bigger twins let's talk about my engine failure 15,000 feet when the engine failed I had a vacuum system that drove vacuum gyros so vacuum pumps not turning i lost pressurization in my airplane I lost my vacuum instruments so my autopilot failed I'm down to just a couple of gauges and no visibility hardly and no visibility to true but the if I had that been a multi-engine airplane there would have been a whole host of other accessories on that other engine that's running to be able to help me get where I need to go alright so there's no argument that that two is better than one as far as safety is what we're saying it's bar safety and cruise I think in this case my guess and correct me if you're wrong but if you had that's probably one of the few cases where you're at 15,000 feet you lost an engine probably said I wish that a second one at that point I was the first one handsome oil all over my windshield when you're buying the gas you want a 421 when you're buying the gas you want a mirage and whenever your engine but the issue on a twin is in most cases the take off that's when they're really the dangerous part is that's when we all train for it I do simulator training for it and that's a major issue on a single fuel as an engine on takeoff you don't have an option you're a glider your glider although lots of singles have had issues with that as well and a twin if you lose an engine you have for better or worse more options and that has caused a number of twin pilots issues over the years but because there's a balance issue and you're now your main thrust this is way off your centre line and your shoes and you mishandle asymmetrical thrust and again it's kind of really boils down to not how many engines do you have on the airplane it really boils down to who is in the left front seat and is that person able to handle that emergency situation which in a little bit of multi training I had it seemed like everything was was geared towards how to handle asymmetrical thrust and on a check-writing is that pretty much accurate it's a huge part of it yeah absolutely it's more complex systems that you have to show capability to handle those complex systems but it's all about the asymmetrical a thruster that occurs there you think about the malleable versus the fort when it wants a great example they're very very similar airplanes in many ways virtually yeah we've got all except two engines versus one so when you're learning to fly those the difference really is okay what do you do if one of the two engine fails well if the Malibu and the the Mirage and the 421 are so similar I guess what you get with the second engine is a little bit more payload but you're not getting speed what's your speed to tender be real close to each other yeah they're going to operate in the same altitudes very very similar 4:21 will carry just a little bit more than a mirage will carry a lot more yeah yeah two more seats and all this baggage areas okay so the progression of yeah probably 500 pounds more yes five hundreds all probably somewhere in that ballpark would think there'd be a lot more but I've got to take more gas right and you so but the single engine has more range because it's just more efficient if that's all depends on me like you have a continental Malibu it's got fifteen or sixteen hundred nautical miles range I don't know of an airplane piston wise that will compare all right it's a great example of two two tanks one engine equals great efficiency alright let me ask you this this question on how would you feel safe to your own personal preference you've got to go from Houston to Fort Lauderdale and you've got a single or you've got it would you be willing to take that trip direct menacing over the Gulf of Mexico me personally yeah there you go so Robert you wouldn't I wouldn't but I'm not sure I wouldn't in a twin either I think I would hug the coast a little bit depends if you're going to Key West or Cancun it's a little bit different issue all right you're in you're in South Florida and you want to go the island hop into the Bahamas I think your original question is Dallas to Miami for example he took a big yeah big cut across the Gulf would I do that in its single no I wouldn't what I do it in a twin yeah but I'd look seriously about hugging the coast and if it a lot of times you flight plan that it adds 20 minutes your flight like a okay yes for the safety twenty minutes in I think yeah what about you Joe go direct across yeah well yes depending the pinus England depending on what I'm flying now I'll give you a good example on this a piston engine is an airplane that has probably 200 moving parts all move in different directions and different rotations and any one of those parts fail and you're a glider okay PT six right tremendous engine tremendous reliable reliability everything turned in the same direction let's say I've and I flown across the North Atlantic and single-engine airplanes how do I treat that differently when I'm between Canada and Greenland in a single-engine prop I'm reading a magazine and having hardly any worries every day there's a great pt6 that's humming up there in the front do that in a continental powered Malibu and you'll have your immersion suit up to the yeah everything's ready to go because anything could happen at that particular time there's certainly more moving parts in that so so really depends upon what engine what is it an engine I'm familiar with is this thing got 1,600 hours on a 2000 hour tbo and no one's done a top overhaul and you know in the last well no yeah I'm just really not a good answer is it a PT six bolted on to a Meridian sure let's go now I'm ready to roll so you really need to look at the airframe you really need to look at the engine that's bolted on to the airframe and your it's maintenance and all those kind of dudes so look one pt six is good better if you're flying no you didn't have PT sixes on that 421 but yeah I'm on that King 90 I mean let's extrapolate this into a bigger thing let's say you're flying something with eight engines and you know you lose an engine you the dreaded seven engine be fit to do you lose that one engine you're a glider so you need to factor that into the equation okay last thing I want to hit you've been throwing out the term PT six and I know that that's a turbine and I know it's is let's talk about for those who don't understand the difference between a piston continental and a PT six what's going on well piston engines exactly that it's using in in my world it's six Pistons all going back inside cylinders that are moving and turning a crankshaft and turn in a propeller whereas a PT six is a turbine engine it's literally a jet engine that is pushing a power turbine that's pushing a propeller and then it pushing it backwards I mean that the Eric well the air that you have and you have an NG that's turning your gas generators turning one direction and a power turning turning turning the other way but they never connect there's only air between them so it's a free turbine point being there no opposing movements inside the engine is certainly with 200 differences in parts with you think about you had six cylinders all going in different directions at different times turning a crank on one direction as opposed to a PG six or any turbine where it's all moving this Endre it's all just spinning all right so what what's the maintenance and a better question is cost per hour of operation of something that's pt6 driven versus something that's piston driven are we looking at double the cost triple I mean because there's an easy an easy one because it's down to one engine if you look at a malibu mirage with a lycoming engine on the right there's an airplane called a jet prop conversion that takes that lycoming engine off and bolts on a PT six I will tell you that the operational costs of those two airplanes are fairly similar totally very operational operate the acquisition costs are the the PT six I mean the Mirage could cost four hundred thousand dollars in the in the an equitable year equitable year model an equitable paint interior and avionics and all that could be nine hundred thousand dollars so to get in that game it costs a lot more to get into the turbine world once you're in that world the operation of it is not terrible and you get cheaper fuel slightly yeah the biggest issue is the engines and if you look at if you go to Continental and say I want a brand-new five twenty five twenty or fifty five fifty it's seventy five eighty thousand dollars I'm right yeah if you got a proud and winning said I want a brand-new PT six it's a million dollars oh wow so that's that's where the Delta oh wow okay yeah so we're talking ten times now think buddy comes to me like I have customers that come to me all that because I fly every day literally every day and piston airplanes and I fly all the time and turbine airplanes I'm acronym today might be one tomorrow's the the other one if I've got the option of sitting behind a PT six I'm sitting PT six yeah or I could say Garret I have a keen ear b100 that I fly regularly it's a turbine engine great engine great airplane no problems whatsoever but if I got the option to sitting behind a turban I'm sitting behind a turban from the multi-engine versus single-engine discussion if I'm sitting behind a pt6 or a turbine engine of some sort the reliability is so high that I'm really the thought processes in my mind of an engine failure and those things can occur it's just not the forefront of them okay so so let me throw one twist to it because we went from single to twin but now we're really talking about piston to a pt6 turb turbine so would you take that same trip across which would you feel more safer in a twin piston or a single pt6 the question I'll take a single pt6 absolutely you can we have a 421 versus a Pilates pc-12 for example right I take the pc-12 it's for safety yeah Wow okay that's very interesting all right well guys thanks very very interesting the experts have it they have agreed that the it's not about a single or twin it's really about yeah we got to afford a pt6 turbine Oh kind of say something to cover this up yeah it's a it's about whoever's in the Left Front seemed good now ain't it the greatest safety device on any airplane that exists is the level of professionalism and piloting of that person in the left front seat if he's flying at winter he or she's flying a twin great if they're flying a single great if you're gonna spend money in a safety area spend it on that person so the reality is engine failures are incredibly rare and that's if you look at the stats and then you probably looked at more this than I have it's not engine failure is a typical no it's it's spin stall stupid accidents yes miss handling something through errant flying so I mean I flew it to come here today I flew a Cessna 310 great airplane love it no problems whatsoever I'm prepared on that takeoff for a different set of eventualities than I am in sit and then a continental Malibu or a lycoming Mirage or Isis no 182 all of them have different things but it's all about that person in the left front seat can they handle that emergency that's good that's good okay so instead of thinking in terms of single engine versus twin think about pouring the money into your training and being the best pilot you can be to handle any emergency that comes up in that left seat thanks for watching hope you subscribe please share and we'll see you next time in the [Music] you

Channel: Taking Off

Views: 31,383

Keywords: flight training, flight vlog, twin cessna, twin engine, aircraft ownership, pilot training, general aviation, flight training videos, twin engine plane, multi engine training, multi engine failure on takeoff, multi engine flight training, twin piston engine, cessna 421, piper malibu, piper mirage, malibu, mirage, PT6, PT6 engine, piston engine, piper emergency, inthehangar, in the hangar, dan millican

Id: zPsEDRhPg58

Length: 22min 45sec (1365 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 18 2019