Rupert Sheldrake, Phd

a few weeks ago I had a chance to speak with the biologist Rupert Sheldrake now Rupert has researched many areas of biology in particular those relating to the mind and asks the question do our minds extend beyond our brains and this leads to more questions about whether telepathy exists and also whereabouts our long-term memories are stored because some people believe long-term memory is stored outside of the brain today I'm very pleased to be able to speak to Rupert Sheldrake now Rupert is one of the world's most innovative biologists and writers he is best known for his theory on morphic fields and morphic resonance which leads to a vision of a living developing universe with its own inherent memory and you started your educational life at Cambridge University yes right and can you tell us a little bit about how you what you studied at Cambridge and a brief summary of what you then went on to do I studied biology at Cambridge and I was interested in how plants and animals grow and develop so I spent 10 years at Cambridge doing research on plants how plants grow and most people don't realize that there's a big problem at the heart of biology how things take up their form because a plant or an animal starts from a fertilized egg which hasn't got much shape I mean it's a round ball with things and things inside the cell but nothing like as complex as you or me or an oak tree and so the question is how does all that complexity how does that form appear the usual theory is that it's just genetically programmed that's what most people would just say is genetically programmed but it turns out the genetic program is a very vague concept that doesn't really explain anything what the jeans do is code for proteins and internet they enable the organism to make the right proteins the right chemicals but how they're assembled how they're put together isn't understood why and within biology there's the idea that that's organized by something called a more fair genetic field which means a field that shapes form morpho means form genetic means coming into being like and they're these fields like invisible blueprints of developing organisms it's like the architects plan for a building which is invisible I mean the plan can be written on a bit of paper but the architect could just have it in his mind the proteins part of the chemicals the organisms made of like the building materials and you can't have a building just with building materials you have to have a plan so these fields are like plans now they're part of a larger category of fields called morphic fields concerned with form or shape and morphic fields organize the activity of brains they organize the behavior of flocks of birds or colonies of bees or termites or ends they link together social groups so there's a whole class of fields in nature I'm suggesting and the these fields have a shape which depends on a memory that's where morphic resonance comes in similar things influence subsequent similar things so everything has an inbuilt collective memory every species has its own memory so if you train rats to learn a new trick in London because of morphic resonance rats all over the world will be able to learn the same thing quicker that's what I'm saying that as a worker organizing principle in nature that enables things to happen quicker or easier after they've already happened it's like a principle of habit in nature okay now that field itself then I mean from a physics point of view electromagnetic waves are waves in the vacuum of space so the mind space is not nothing it is a medium through which waves can push against yes now is is the morphic phenomenon that you're talking about is it using space in the same way that electromagnetic waves push space as the travelers waves or is it something else well it's it's in space it's it's a field that gives spatial form or patterns so it's a field that is to do with patterns and forms in space in that sense it's in space now the thing is that space is a tricky concept in modern physics I mean it's not just the ordinary three-dimensional space that we experience in daily life morphic fields are very like quantum fields which are part of quantum theory and quantum fields are in multi-dimensional spaces I mean physicists talk in terms of extra dimensions of space and their mathematical models have lots of extra dimensions the thing is we can't conceive of these extra dimensions so they come cheap in modern physics they can just invoke them whenever they want so the thing is the existing the known fields of physics quantum fields are in multi-dimensional space super string theory says all fields are in ultimately in a 10 dimensional space so morphic fields no data in space is a bit like that but it's none of them even the ordinary fields of physics are in straightforward three-dimensional space okay so it's in a it's in a dimension which isn't in our three dimensions there's a morphic yes I mean exactly that would really be a few model it mathematically all right but as the the simpler way of thinking about them is the morphic fields in and around what it organizes like magnetic fields in and around a magnet the magnetic fields inside the magnet but it stretches out around the magnet as well the Earth's gravitational fields in the earth but it stretches out round the earth that's why it holds the moon in orbit now the morphic field of an oak tree is inside the oak tree and around it now the bit that isn't that's local in the sense it's in a place but when the oak tree tunes into the memory of previous oak trees the process of morphic resonance is goes across space or an across time now that may travel through extra dimensions or it may go into some other kind of realm and then come back into this one David Bohm the physicist called it an implicit order so that you can model it in different ways none of them are easy to understand any more than regular modern physics is easy to understand but the key point is the fields are within and around what they organize and they have a memory from previous similar systems all right now one of the statements that you use which seem to sort of rang true with me feel like was that do Minds reach out from brains mm-hmm which it's kind of what you're saying here isn't it yes and I'm I've done a little bit of reading on where things are stored in the brain and nobody seems to really have a clue how long-term memory works that's true and I think that it's I don't believe that long-term memory is stored in the physical gray matter of our neurons you know no no no try so that the brain is for long-term memory at least is an interfacing device yes well what I'm saying is that personally I think brains are overrated I think people assume that every all the memories are stored inside the head and they think that all our minds are confined to the inside of our head I don't think that's true I think the brains more like a tuning device a bit more like a TV set or a mobile phone that Tunes in to influences coming from elsewhere I think the memories things who we resonate with I think resonate we have a collective memory we tune into lots of other people in the past but we tune into ourselves as well by the same kind of process only we tune into ourselves more specifically because we're more similar to ourselves in the past and anyone else that's why we get our own memories not other people's and so I think the brain's like a tuning system the memories are not stored inside the brain we resonate with ourselves in the past when you go to a your place or meet a familiar person when your nerve cells are stimulated your eyes and senses stimulate the brain cells they resonate with the same kinds of patterns when you saw that person before and you remember it or by resonance so the memory is not inside the brain according to this theory right and does that describe what you would term the Akashic record or is that something exact another complete theory altogether because people said that yes well if they're the Akashic record is an attempt to get at the same kind of idea Siri in the 19th century Theosophists in who were English people interested in East and Philosophy most of them were English and they were out in India they read up on Buddhist and Hindu philosophy and in Buddhist and Hindu philosophy there's the idea there's a kind of memory in nature it was more or less what I'm saying and they came up with the idea of the Theosophists of the Akashic records Akasha is the Indian word for space or ether and so they had the ideas of these records in space of what's happened in the past yeah I'm saying something very similar there's a cosmic memory two habits of the laws of nature and more like habits but you see the Akashic record uses a metaphor that I wouldn't use its record implies something like a filing cabinet or a CD or a tape recording or something the word record because we think of it in terms of books or filing systems implies some physical store somewhere in space now I don't think that's how it works I think it works by resonance across time and you can resonate if you remember what you did yesterday you resonate with yourself yesterday but in between yesterday and today it's not as if all that information has been stored in a static form yeah somewhere outside space and time in a cosmic filing cabinet or something or cosmic harddrive yeah it's a direct resonance last time so the idea of Akashic records is basically saying the same thing as a cosmic memory but it's using a metaphor that I don't think is appropriate I use a different one resonance right and if I'd like to ask you about your work studying animals for example owners who dog owners who whose dog seems to think that they're coming home before they're anywhere near and people who can wake their dog or by looking up their dog yes I mean I mean the other thing that you also caught on your website is that experiments need to be blind or double-blind yes so could you so for example if you were going to try and prove that owners can wake up their dog by looking at it how would you conduct the test in it in a blind or double-blind situation with that well the thing is that blind or double-blind in this case what you use is a randomized trial this son tests you can do blind that's when you you don't know what the blind test means you'd say you were doing an experiment and you were testing two compounds a and B yeah if if they're enzymes in biochemistry if somebody says ok if you're if it's not blind they say well this is the ordinary enzyme this is the inhibited enzyme and if you know what to expect you tend to see what you want see this applies to regular science that's why people use blind methods now in some circumstances you can't use you can't stare at a dog when it's asleep blind I mean you know you're staring at it yeah so you can't possibly stare at it when you don't know you're staring at it sit here what you the method you have to use there is a randomized method you see if you stare at a dog and you can wake it up by staring at it what the skeptics will say is oh well how'd you know it wouldn't have woken up anyway yeah or maybe you've made some noise that's made it wake up and start so what you have to do is have a series of randomized times you could stare at it any one of 10 different times during a space of an hour and then so somebody else at random picks a number from one to ten and so okay you can stare at it in period seven not in periods one two three four five six Oh so if what happens is that you you don't make any noise ideally you'd look through a window you'd have a dog behind a soundproof barrier yeah now most homes don't have those but you'd have certain same room to start with but you'd make no noise you just in that period you stare at it you videotape the dog all the time if it wakes up during periods seven but not in other ones then that would suggest something's happening and if it could be a coincidence if you just do it once but if you do it over and over again with different random timings then you get the the idea that the stair is actually waking to dog rather than it just being a coincidence because that you know there are dog owners who will tell you this certainly I yes quite a lot of people say they can wake dogs or cats by staring at them I'm this is a rather good research project you see I I might the slogan for it is don't let sleeping dogs lie stare hat so the the the reason I'm doing this research is because I'm interested in the way the mind extends beyond the brain yeah and this is something that happens to humans if you stare at a human being from behind if you stare at another person they don't know you're there they can often feel it and they turn around and that's what I call the sense of being stared at yeah and you think that in in animals evolutionary process where they are preyed on you know there they are other animals are trying to kill them then it will be useful to know if you've been stared out by a predator absolutely possibly where that that phenomenon is developed and yes I think that's where it's come from because you see I think our mind stretch out beyond our brains so if I'm looking at something say I'm looking at a dog they I don't think there's a sort of little cartoon like dog inside my head I think my image of the dog is projected out through my eyes to where the dog is that I have a kind of dog image in my mind yeah that's projected to where it is so my mind touches what I'm looking at and that's why dogs or people can feel when they're being looked at and I think all animals have vision that works like that and I think in the course of evolution if prey animals were able to become sensitive to when predators were looking at them they'd escape better so I think it's something pretty basic in animal nature and the reason humans have it and more than 90% of people have said they've had this experience it's very common the reason we have it is simply it's part of our animal nature and it's useful and people who are in dangerous situations know people in the army and stuff pay attention to this and so do detectives and surveillance officers they're trained to know that if you're watching somebody if you're following somebody is a private detective you don't stare at their back while you're following them because they're likely to feel you turn around and catch your eye and your cover's blown you look at them a little bit otherwise you lose them but it's better to look at their feet right and in the martial arts people are trained how to become more sensitive to being stared out from behind right fascinating now there's a particular parrot I would like to ask you about so you did some quite a bit of research with this parrot that had I mean tell me about tell me about it well a lot of animals can pick up their owners intentions and I described us in my book dogs that know when their owners are coming home and the some of the most sensitive animals turn out to be African Gray parrots right and I've been working with one in the United States that's not only sensitive to its own as thoughts and intentions but because it's got a big vocabulary it can actually speak yeah and so it actually says what she's thinking it sleeps in her bedroom it sometimes wakes her up from her dreams by commenting loudly on her dreams really so I did some controlled experiments where we had a series of photographs corresponding to words the parent knows yeah she sat in one room the photos were in sealed envelopes randomized so she'd opened an envelope in advance what was in it it might be a picture of a car and the parrot in another room was being filmed and the question was would it's a car or flower or whatever she was looking at and the answer is yes it did and it did much more than you'd expect by chance so this is a the series of experiments showed that this parrot was indeed telepathic and could pick up and actually say in English what it saying it was looking at so if we just mention the skeptics because yeah I know you've obviously in this field you have your share of them oh yes I mean what would they have you published a paper on this parrot research oh yes yes it's published all is almost ours published in peer-reviewed journals so normal science involves skepticism so when you publish them you have referees who read them and they check to see if there's any floats and the statistics and stuff so they've all been vetted yes but there are a whole group of deniers out there so-called skeptics who are actually dogmatic believers in materialism who think that psychic phenomena impossible now those kinds of skeptics are not open to evidence in my experience and right for example when I did this parrot research I published it and there was a TV program about it on Discovery Channel right and they wanted to get a comment from the skeptic because in the media they always ask a media skeptic come in and they got professor Lewis Wolpert who's a biologist at University College London and they rang him up and they said Rupert Sheldrake's done this research and he says there's parrot psychic and well but John said oh it must be nonsense and they said would you like to look at the videotape of the experiment to comment you so I don't need to see the evidence so I know it's rubbish and then he just appeared on TV and said there's absolutely no evidence that telepathy exists in any animal or person or thing it's completely impossible yeah and so the point is that kind of skepticism comes very cheap I mean he didn't need to bother to look at the face she doesn't need to consider concern himself with the evidence he knows what he thinks his mind's made up yeah well I challenged him to a public debate at the Royal Society of hearts whether there was a judge in the chair and it turned out he knew absolutely nothing about this field and he didn't feel he needed to cuz he was so sure it was impossible now that kind of skepticism is what I encounter all the time yeah I mean it's one thing to have somebody who says I've looked at your data and maybe there was a mistake here and the statistics aren't right here and you could have designed the experiment better here that's fine that's normal science and that's I'm used to that as part of every scientist used to that yeah but does this kind of denialist skepticism which simply won't look at the evidence and that I don't think of as real skepticism at all it's a kind of dogmatic belief system yeah yeah okay now um I've actually there's just something I would want to share with you exact I was very intrigued by the fact that Luther your long-term memory may well be somewhere outside if you're in new neural network shall we say and I am let me just explain this to you the your short-term memory this is in your frontal lobe you know if you're making a cup of tea you remember where you've put the tea cup and you're kind of your habit type memory so to remember how you drive a car is in I think in the cerebellum so these are fairly well understood but your long-term memory where you remembering say things from your childhood do did they say that there's this the part of your brain called the hippocampus which is used in in formulating laws a long-term memory yes but they somehow end up somewhere else in the brain but no one else seems to know how they get from this hippocampus to elsewhere in the brain yes now I I thought well possibly the hippocampus is pushing out the memory into there's some other space or some other dimension I mean that the rest of the brain is then a receiver to that at some other point in time that now I then looked into what research had been done on this thing the hippocampus and over the last five years scientists have done quite a lot of research into rat hippocampus yes now what they've found is that certain cells inside the right hippocampus are called grid cells and the reason why they call in that if they put a little m and device on the cell to measure its electrical activity and then just let the rat wander around the room it basically the they will gather an increase in voltage at certain points in space and in it it what it does is it Maps out this grid so if it was to walk around the room for several hours the the grid cells are triggered at these points yes and it maps out a perfect hexagonal triangular grid system yes now what the scientist says the reason why that the purpose for that is for its navigation to get from A to B now now I think you see the HIPAA you navigate in is done by another part of the brain I can remember what it is but it's not necessarily the hippocampus and the resist guy called Henry Mollison and he had both his hippocampus removed and they were non functioning and he didn't lose any of his spatial awareness okay so you would you would buy this argument you would say well he should have lost all of his spatial awareness now what this guy did he lost his ability to create long term memory so he couldn't remember what he'd done in a week ago okay yes because his hippocampus wasn't formulating those memories yes but he could remember what he did five years ago because the hippocampus was working at that point in time you see yes is it - formulated the memory so the other thing about the hippocampus is I'm an electrical engineer it's packed full of zinc and zinc is the only metal which has a negative resistance so you can actually make a radio transmitter out of a piece of zinc so I'm thinking that this that this grid is actually the mechanism that it's using to tap into the space you not I mean that these are may be access points to where the memory is being stored perhaps and I thought but every science paper that I read this is to do with spatial awareness this grid so I just wanted it oh yes well I know I've been tracking this literature too and I think what it what am I reading of it was this that in order to build up a memory you've got to associate things together what you recall is what the associations you've made at the time if you don't make them in the first place you can't recall them so like when you meet a new person most English people are hopeless at remembering names they're introduced to somebody and they instantly forget now Americans are different you know if you meet some if I meet somebody in America they say hi Rupert how are you today Rupert they keep repeating it so they get it next time you meet them Natan and bule name it's very impressive yeah so now the thing is you have to create the associations to remember them now what happens the hippocampus has a kind of spatial map in it and when you encounter something in a particular place there's an activity in the hippocampus that links it to the sights and smells and things all the other aspects of that thing they all get linked together in the hippocampus seems to the place that links them together to create this resonant pattern inside the brain it's a kind of resonant pattern of activity no what happens then is that they've mapped all that they're shown it hands and stuff brain scientists but after you've after you've had that experience you move on to some other experience the hippocampus of creating other resonant patterns and the first one isn't in the hippocampus anymore so then they assumed it must have been shunted off into some other part of the brain for long-term storage which they can't find as you rightly say they can't find it there I don't think it's there at all I think it works by resonance the hippocampus sets up a resonant pattern that links things together in a kind of spatial way and then when you remember it you tune into that now if people lose their hippocampus then they can't set up these new resonant patterns like this chap you mentioned and they're in experiments with rats they've found you can train rats to learn bit new mazes and where things are and and they need the hippocampus for that can cut the hippocampus out after that and and they can still remember which is why they say well the memory must be somewhere else well it is somewhere else it's not in the brain at all in my view rather than being in some undefined another bit of the brain other I've heard of stories of people having their entire hemisphere removed and they can remember almost everything yes well I would the point is there's no that there's that that's happened an experience with rats and in the 30s and 40s people were desperately trying to trace memories in the brain and they trained rats to learn new tricks and then cut out various bits of the brain the right the left the front the back and stuff and they found that when the rat had recovered from the operation it could still remember even after big chunks of the brain have been removed and that's why they came to the conclusion that as they said memory seems to be both everywhere and nowhere in particular because you couldn't pin it down in a particular place and some people said well it must be stored holographically in the brain a hologram is where you have a kind of photo interference pattern in a photo and even you could cut half of a hologram off you can still get back the same image each bit contains information from the whole right so I don't think it's holographic because that's still the theory it's stored in the brain but they're trying to explain the fact you can't pin it down I'd go further I'd say it's not in the brain at all which is why you you you can't locate the exact memories doors and if if this is the case then you know you then have this you just philosophically speaking what would happen if you connect it to the wrong purse you connect it to someone else's brain memory so there must be some kind of umbilical cord keeping this all connected to our own memories you see what I mean well I think that similarity you see the umbilical cord I don't think is an actual cord I think it's the fact you're more similar to you yesterday in last year and when you were a child than you are to me that's why you have your own memories because you resonate with yourself right now if you had serious brain damage an accident that disrupted your brain and chain the way it resonates you might conceivably pick up other people's memories and there are cases of people who have accidents who have extraordinary abilities they didn't have beforehand I read a case just yesterday where somebody had a major accident to the brain they were unconscious and when they came around they could speak fluent Italian whereas before the brain injury they only had a very sketchy knowledge of the language and I would think that what was happening there there was somehow resonating with Italian speakers that did it sort of change the normal suit tuning I mean it's as if you always watch say channel 4 on TV and then you drop the TV it has an accident and from there on it's stuck on BBC one yeah you can't get channel 4 anymore it would be something like that but so I think normally we tune into ourselves but accidents could possibly alter the tuning to some degree so just give us some your website address Ripper and now you have you know the books that you've written my websites www.ilo.org/decentwork resonance is called a new science of life alright is there anything you want to add yeah I just had one more thing I've just launched a new experiment on telephone telepathy this is one of the things I do research on a lot of people have the experience of thinking of someone who then rings they say it's funny I was just thinking about you yeah it's about 80% of people have had that experience I've been doing experiments on telephone telepathy for the last five or six years and they showed that this is real it's not just coincidence and people forgetting all the times they're wrong something's really going on I've just launched a new automated test on telephone telepathy which works on mobile phones and so I'd like to mention that because anyone who's viewing this in the UK or in the US can do that test any works in the UK in the u.s. at the moment to do it you go to my website www.themanufacturingmentor.com sends them a text message and ask them to ring you you then get a phone call from the computer that says one of your two callers is on the line right now waiting to speak to you and please guess who it is by pressing one or two yeah on your keypad okay so you guess who it is then the line opens up you can speech them so you find out instantly if you're right or wrong and then after a minute it cuts off because I'm paying for the call all right and after a random time delay it does the same thing again so you do six of these trials right it takes less than an hour right so it's fun to do it's free I mean of course you have to pay for the mobile phone calls but they're innocent landlines and it's on my website and anyone can do this so I'd invite anyone who's at all interesting in these things to try the experiment for themselves and when do you envisage publishing the results and that would be well it depends I want to get at least a thousand trials before I do that so it rather depends on getting enough volunteers to do the test say well this should help this should help okay right thanks for speaking to me to do fast short but absolutely fascinating thank you thank you you

Channel: Richard Hall

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Keywords: Richard D Hall, Rich Planet, Alternative News, Alternative History, UFOs, Research, Cover Up, 7-7, Terrorism, Phenomena, Psychological Operation, Media Cover Up, Brainwashing, Mysterious Photo, MP, Politician, Classified, Declassified, Disinformation, Information War, Abduction, Mutilation, Rendlesham Forest, UK, Newcastle, County Durham, Berwyn Mountain, Landing, Disclosure, ET, Alien, False Flag, Debt, Aliens

Id: UYKwAQBYIY8

Length: 33min 7sec (1987 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 25 2015