Lim Lecture: Air/Qi Connections: Notes from the History of Science and Medicine

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👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/AutoModerator 📅︎︎ May 07 2020 🗫︎ replies

Sweet. Looks good! Will have to find time to watch the whole talk.

Thanks!

That was nicely presented, well documented and reasoned.

I chuckled at the 'logical' conclusion of Tang Zonghai that god is oxygen, via Yang qi :) good old Christian tones in 18th century science... "That interplanetary gravitation is similar to the principles of Christian fraternity" (34:53), etc.

It's always refreshing to see good scholars slowly estrange us from the paradigm of 'vital energy' by explaining how we got there, and what wrong turns led to that erroneous and limited conception/translation of 气.

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/medbud 📅︎︎ May 07 2020 🗫︎ replies
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(shimmering electronic tone) - Good afternoon. My name is You-tien Hsing, I'm a faculty in geography and Chair of Center for Chinese Studies here at Cal. Welcome to Center the for Chinese Studies, Elvera Kwang Siam Lim Memorial Lecture in Chinese studies. This endowed lecture series was made possible by a very generous gift to the Center of Chinese Studies by Mrs. Lim's family, and this year we are very honored to have Professor Ruth Rogaski to deliver the Lim Memorial Lecture. Before I introduce Professor Rogaski, let me tell you a little bit about Elvera Kwang Siam Lim, the namesake of this lecture series. Mrs. Lim was born in Shantou, Guangdong Province, southern China, in 1928. Migrated to Hong Kong later on. Received a PhD from University of Hawaii in biology, and she was teaching in the biology department of the Chinese University of Hong Kong for a long time, and after her retirement, she decided to move to Oakland, California, where she passed away in 2006. This endowed lecture series was made possible through this generous gift to the Center of Chinese Studies by her family to honor her dedication to scholarly exchange. With this endowment we bring one eminent scholar to Berkeley every year to present a public lecture and to meet with our faculty, with our graduate students, and generally foster scholarly exchange among colleagues in China studies and beyond. In addition to this lecture series, Mrs. Lim's family also established a endowed graduate fellowship in her name to reward academic excellence, that we are very, very grateful for. Now let me introduce our speaker today. Professor Ruth Rogaski is professor of history at Vanderbilt University. She's a historian of Qing and modern China, and the history of medicine, urban history, women's and gender history, and social culture history in early modern East Asia. She's the author of Hygienic Modernity: Meanings of Health and Disease in Treaty-Port China, published in 2004. This groundbreaking work was awarded many prestigious prizes including Fairbank Prize in East Asian history, the Levenson Prize in Chinese studies, the Welch Medal in the history of medicine, and was co-recipient of the Berkshire Prize. In addition to this important book, Professor Rogaski has written widely on topics such as germ warfare, Chinese orphanages, and martial arts in history. She just completed another book, another monograph, The Nature of Manchuria, that examines the intersection between natural history and projects of empire in Northeast Asia from the 17th century to the present. Right now she's going to present her current current, most recent fresh project, The Qi in Chinese medicine, in Chinese science. So without further ado, let us welcome Professor Ruth Rogaski. (audience applauding) - Thank you so much for that generous introduction You-tien. It's a true honor to be invited to give the Lim lecture. And first I just wanted to thank several people who've made this possible. First, Elinor Levine at the Center for Chinese Studies who handled the logistics of my visit with great care and unflagging cheerfulness, as did Keila Diehl, who is the managing editor of Cross-Currents. And most of all, I wish thank You-tien of course, and also of course Professor Wen-hsin Yeh, for inviting me to Berkeley again to take part in the tremendously vibrant intellectual community here. And it's due in great part to Wen-hsin's warm hospitality and adventurous mind that I always feel welcome when I come to visit. And today it's really an honor to give a lecture that's been endowed by the family of Dr. Elvera Lim, who was as we just heard, was a scientist herself, and whose father, at least I read this online, whose father was a physician in Guangdong province in the early part of the 20th century. So I hope that Dr. Lim would have been pleased that I'm offering a talk today that engages in the history of science and medicine in China. So today what I'd like to do is share with you some of my musings, recent musings from my work on the global history of the concept of qi. Offering some observations about how scientists and physicians in China, and in the west, around the turn of the 20th century thought about qi and about air, and the relationship between the two. And I hope that this history of air-qi connections might inspire us in the end to think perhaps just a little bit differently about the role of air and qi in our current environmental crises. So let me begin with an image of just one of those current crises, from Beijing in 2003. In February of, excuse me, 2013. In February of 2013, a strange phenomenon appeared on the campus of Beijing University. The air that winter had been particularly bad, as you can see here, reaching air quality index levels of over 700. And now that's on the scale where the numbers between 300 and 500 are already deemed hazardous to human life. One morning, Beida's students awoke to find that all of the statues of human forms on the campus had been outfitted with white masks, or kou zhao, those ubiquitous equipments that Chinese citizens wear in order to cope with smog, or wu mai. Cai Yuanpei had a kou zhao, as did Li Dazhao, and even Cervantes. I don't have the picture of the early modern European poet and author. But they all had kou zhao on. Now images of this prank went viral on Weibo sites, prompting China's netizens to add their own humorous captions, as you can imagine, and use these images as an opportunity to express their frustration with the poor quality of air in the nation's capital. As one person opined, "These status would collapse "if they had to breathe this air without those masks." Now one of these images in particular caught my attention. A statue of a male taijiquan practitioner gracefully executing the single whip pose, the white of his kou zhao contrasting beautifully with the rich bronze of the statue. Now this statue had been erected on the Beida campus in 2008 to commemorate Chinese traditional physical culture in that Olympic year. This ironic juxtaposition of a traditional Chinese exercise that features deep and purposeful breathing being conducted in the midst of a horribly unbreathable air apocalypse mirrors other images that circulated on the Internet during that first winter airpocalypse in China in 2013. Photos not of statues, but of real life taijiquan and qigong practitioners attempting to do their qi work outdoors in dense smog. Now these images raise compelling questions. What is it that we breathe when we practice qigong, for example? If it's qi, then what is qi? And if it's air, for that matter, what is air? And what is the relationship between qi and air? So in this talk I'll offer some musings about the historical interaction between air and qi, focusing on the ways that a physician of Chinese medicine negotiated between these two concepts in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Instead of offering timeless definitions of these two concepts, I would like instead to suggest how human ways of interacting with and knowing these entities changed across time. My talk will focus on the following sequence of questions. How was qi conceptualized in pre-modern texts relating to health and the body? What happened when western scientific concepts of air came to China? What similarities and differences did Chinese physicians see between air and qi? And finally, what are the implications of this relationship for our global crisis of air today? First, let me turn to the first question, what is qi. Now even the great early Chinese philosopher Mencius, when asked about qi, or his (speaking foreign language) said, "It's hard to put into words." (speaking foreign language) But we must acknowledge that qi is a broad concept with multiple valences of meaning that have changed across time and from place to place. So what I offer here is a very limited schematic overview based on the great work of other scholars such as Xi-ga-hisa Kore-ahma, Isabelle Robinet, Rob Campany, Nathan Sivin, Paul Unschuld, and many many others. So let me first start by saying that today in the United States we usually say that qi is vital energy. That's the kind of the standard translation. And historically I would agree that qi was thought of as something that fostered the unfolding processes of life. But in traditional Chinese cosmology qi was a far broader concept and it was not limited to sentient beings. It was not even limited to organic things. Qi, if we're going to work towards a working definition that we can use as we discuss it, was the basic physical stuff of everything in the universe. Found everywhere in everything, both animate and inanimate. Qi is also the characteristic force within things that propels change and transformation. And I like this phrase from my old teacher Nathan Sivin who put it this way, qi is "that which makes things happen in stuff" and "the stuff in which things happen". So that's my working definition, I'll move forward from there. Now what about qi and air? Qi is undoubtedly related to the stuff we breath in, what we call air. But it is also much, much more. Scholars such as Donald Harper have examined the character for qi, and discerned that from early Han Dynasty texts, what we see here is steam arising from rice. Now Harper translates this as vapor. And we can see within this term of qi, a sort of misty yet nutritive entity, obviously related to air. And yet one of the earliest texts that seems to reference qi that we have, it's actually an excavated object, a exquisite small jade cylinder, that has been dated from around 500 B.C. And archeologists think that it's the cap to a walking stick, which I absolutely love this idea. This jade cylinder has some remarkable things engraved on it that suggest that humans can do remarkable things with qi. So if we show the text here and a translation. It goes "Swallowing, then it travels; "traveling, it extends; extending, it descends; "descending, it stabilizes; stabilizing; it solidifies; "solidifying, it sprouts; sprouting, it grows; "growing it returns; returning, it merges with Heaven." So you can think about that lovely inscription. And say from here that obviously qi goes far beyond any one to one correspondence with air as we understand it today. Now in ancient texts related to yangsheng, or the skill set of nurturing life, qi can be drawn into the human body through very mundane tasks such as breathing and eating. Now the cultivation of qi through physical exercise demonstrated by the image on the left, involves breathing but it also involves using the mind to circulate the qi within the body to lead to excellent physical health and vigor. And of course for Daoist adepts, qi could do even more. By circulating and transforming the primordial qi within the body through the power of the mind, adepts could cultivate a divine embryo within the body thus eliminate the need for breathing altogether. Which could come in handy these days. And also offering a vehicle for immortality. Now in a related but really quite separate tradition qi was also essential concept in Chinese medicine. It's the substrate that joins the human body and the external environment. Moving through the body along the routes that we know today is, we would call them the meridians or the acupuncture channels familiar to us from Chinese medicine. Now, in one way of thinking, this qi moves through the universe in a very predictable patterns, through the logic of yin and yang, and according to the five phases, earth, wood, water, metal, and fire. Rubrics that are pegged to the waning and waxing of nature's rhythms. Day and night, birth and death, and the changing seasons. Humans, even though we're puny creatures, are fully capable of understanding these patterns, and adjusting our behavior in order to harmonize internal qi with the cosmic qi. But if people are unable to harmonize qi through proper behavior, and this happens all the time doesn't it, then have no fear because acupuncture and herbs can be used to restore this harmony. And this is an important thing to remember as we move forward. Now Chinese medicine is not just a lovely embrace of good qi, because there is something called righteous qi, this is the good qi that we all think and know and love, but there is also something called deviant qi, or xieqi And this qi can sneak up on you, it can overtake you, and it could even kill you. Deviant qi can arise from the bodies of the sick, from corpses, from filth, from blocked waterways, even corrupt officials and corrupt politicians, can poison the environment with stinking qi, chouqi. or huiqi, the qi of filth. The very land itself can give rise to this harmful qi. Especially the lush landscapes of the homeland of Dr. Elvera Lim, the southlands of Guangdong, Guangxi province, where the noxious qi of the mountains and the poisonous fog of the southern ranges was in the air. Now while there were some collective options for what could be done in order to improve the environment, ultimately the responsibility for fighting and avoiding xieqi, landed squarely on the shoulders of the individual. Medical texts advise individuals to moderate behavior, alter diet, take medicines, engage in yangsheng exercises, and if possible simply avoid those regions with unhealthful qi, so don't go to Guangdong, right. Now the Chinese physician was the person on the front lines of this struggle between zhengqi and xieqi, this invisible struggle of life and death. Equipped with knowledge from ancient texts, with experience in the human condition, and with their own finely trained senses, physicians encountered, understood, and felt qi directly. And I use this image to convey this idea that qi could be understood through the unmediated human senses through the exquisite sense of touch and feeling the pulse. With the knowledge of the revered classics and with his own intuition, the physician could redirect the forces of qi within the bodies of individual sufferers. Qi was real because humans knew it and perceived it directly through such intimate and immediate sensorial engagement. Let us consider then encounters between qi and air with the arrival of westerners in late Imperial China. And of course we start this story with the Jesuits. Jesuit missionaries came to the imperial court with very specific ideas about air. And found confusion and heresy when they considered the concept of qi. Their concerns were both spiritual and scientific. Now we know through the wonderful scholarship of Qiong Zhang at Wake Forest, that Matteo Ricci considered qi to be the main obstacle to his religious work. Because of qi, neo-Confucian elites rejected the idea of a supernatural world. Since after death, for example, the soul's qi simply dissipated and scattered, so what was there to save? Even worse, because qi connected man with the cosmos, Ricci and his colleagues found that Chinese elites, or most Chinese elites, obviously there were some converts, but most Chinese elites felt little need for the western concept of God. Ricci actually wrote an extensive anti-qi polemic in his master work Tianzhu shi yi, or The True Meaning of the Lord of Heaven, published in 1910. This was a very long chapter with a very long chapter title and I'll just give it to you here. The chapter title was, A discussion on spiritual beings and the soul of man, and an explanation as to why the phenomena of the world cannot be described as forming an organic unity. This chapter title says it all. For Ricci and other Jesuits, Chinese would not accept a Christian spirituality unless they got rid of their idea of qi. Nor would they accept western science, or what we could call western science at that time if they didn't change their ideas about qi. So for the Jesuits qi was nothing more than air, and air was one of the classical four elements, along with earth, water, and fire. As the missionaries translated the basics of Aristotelian natural philosophy into Chinese, they co-opted a very familiar character. It is in Jesuit treatises that we first get a one to one correspondence between the character qi and a specific western concept of air. As we can see in the last of the four elements here. By the 18th century, westerners developed an extraordinary new way of thinking about the stuff we breathe. Joseph Priestly, pictured on the left here isolated oxygen in 1774. And this was followed in the 1780s by the famous experiments of Antoine Lavoisier, who is pictured here with his distracting wife, but this image actually is very important, I wanted to share it with you because his wife was also the person who kept all of his laboratory notebooks and was his right hand assistant. Right hand man. So this picture, says a lot more than meets the eye. But Lavoisier, in his experiments, demonstrated that air and even water, these things were composed of different types of gases. So you could even take water and break it apart into invisible things. Now these experiments led to what one scholar has called the invention of air in the west. And this was, this invention of air, was the fundamental beginnings of the science of chemistry. The revolution of modern laboratory science began with chemistry and the revolution of chemistry began with the west's exploration of the invisible. Now if you've heard of Priestly and Lavoisier it may be because you've read a very famous work, Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, because the debate between Priestly and Lavoisier formed one of his major case studies about how paradigm shifts works. But what I'd like to highlight here, I'm actually drawing on a different work, Leviathan and the Air-Pump. Which hopefully some of you have read the classic work by Shapin and Schaffer. And this line of inquiry focuses on material culture and the role of things in science. These great discoveries revealed that the nature of air was revealed by manipulating what we cannot see by using things that we can see, or apparatuses of glass, metal, and rubber. And if we can draw our eyes away from the amorous couple and focus instead on what is on the desk in front, on the table in front of Lavoisier, we see these objects. It's through these objects Lavoisier and others went on to theorize that not just air but the entire world was made up of combinations of discrete elements that could be manifested, transformed, and controlled through forced interactions with objects. These experiments highlight a basic approach to comprehending reality that emerges in modern Europe at this time. What the philosopher of science David Baird has called thing knowledge. The idea that both epistemology and ontology in the modern world are determined through instruments. That apparatus within them themselves contain and convey knowledge, and apparatus determines how existence in defined. Now these experiments with gas and apparatus feature centrally in the introduction of western science into China in the mid to late 19th century, with very important consequences for the history of qi. So after the Opium War, a new wave of Protestant missionaries sought to bring western science to China. And there's a whole host of scholarship on these translations that were done as collaborations between Chinese and western, between Chinese scientists and western missionaries. And these texts inevitably present chemistry, or the study of change, huaxue, as the most basic way of understanding the world. And in these texts Chinese readers would learn that the world is comprised of three types of matter, solid, liquid, and gas. And that chemistry, as the kind of crowning science that the west had developed, was the way that the west mastered matter by separating or fen, and combining, or he, its elemental constituents. And this mastery of matter in these texts was primarily conveyed through an introduction to the invisible world of gas that was translated of course as qi. Now these translators faced some difficult tasks, including challenges that trace all the way back to Matteo Ricci's issues with qi. The main thing was how to get your Chinese readers to distinguish between qi and air. And we can see this work, this distinction in an important, it's not the earliest example but it's an important example. A translation of a text, a British text called Chemistry and Health in Chinese but was called the Chemistry of Common Life as a British popular primer of the mid-19th century. Now this Chemistry of Common Life begins with a chapter entitled The Air We Breathe. And the original text, as you can see from this preamble here, informs the reader of the chemical composition of air, the height of the atmosphere, the concept of air pressure, these sorts of things. But for the Chinese translation, Xu and Fryer prefaced this information with a definition of air itself, giving their readers a name for air that would distinguish it from other conceptualizations of qi. And I translated this preface into English. It says, human life can not exist without breathing, excuse me, human life can not exist without breathing in a certain type of gas, qi, and this type of gas, qi, is known as the qi of the void, or kongqi. In Fryer and Xu's careful phrasings perhaps we can witness the birth of air in modern China. Now another challenge in these texts is proving that this qi as gas actually exists. And this was done by staging interaction between qi and visible objects. Qi as gas existed because it occupied space in a flask turned upside down in water. It had weight 'cause it could displace mercury in a barometer. Qi as gas was everywhere, but an air pump could actually render a sphere void of gas, thus creating a vacuum, a place where there is no qi. Apparatus such as these from Benjamin Hobson's very early text Bo wu xin bian, proved existence of qi as gas but also could demonstrate the nature of qi as gas. Chemistry of course was a science that specialized in separating things, breaking them apart. And many of the images in for example, Xu Shou's and John Fryer's main chemistry text Hauxue jianyuan focused on how you could separate qi. And many of these little images here are actually part of what accompanies a very detailed description of Lavoisier's original experiments revealing how oxygen or yangqi, and hydrogen, qingqi, can be derived from water, for example. Now if these images, for me when I looked at this, it seemed as though this was like a magic manual. And the kind of magic that you could do with qi as gas required lots of magical implements. So this was, for me when I read these, it seems like we're talking about a magic kit. And it was only through manipulation of visible matter in the form of tubes and ovens and wires that the wonders of the invisible, or qi as gas, could actually be known. Now while these texts were at pains to distinguish between air and qi, they also conveyed numerous inadvertent points of similarity between air and qi. Just as in Chinese medical thought, this western air sustained life but it was also the primary cause of disease. These texts were filled with descriptions of what for the west was deemed miasma, these deadly gases that could arise from a variety of sources such as sewers, marshes, volcanoes, corpses, but also from the factories of the newly industrialized urban centers of Europe and America. The words the translators used to convey these forms of miasma would be very familiar to Chinese physicians. Chouqi, huiqi, liqi. Chinese readers in these texts however, are assured that western chemistry had solved the problem. First, western chemistry knew that liqi and chouqi for example were not mysterious influences but specific harmful compounds, including hydrogen chloride, sulfurated hydrogen, ammonia and phosphorous, which when inhaled could cause disease. But chemistry had the answer to the problem. By mixing dangerous gases with other compounds chemists in the laboratory would be able to remove the du, or the poison, from liqi, thus eliminating the pathogenic miasma from the environment altogether. But if that didn't work out then chemistry also had another, another technique. It was around this time in the mid-19th century that the Scottish, the Scottish scientist Stenhouse had invented a charcoal filter mask known after the Scottish inventor as the Stenhouse Respirator. And this could be used to remove the noxious aspects of air, a boon which mid-19th century western scientists predicted would save millions of lives around the world. Now we can at this moment perhaps see not only the invention of pollution, but also the invention of technological fixes for this pollution. Now I'm going to go blank with my screen because I want you to consider something very abstract that has nothing to do with things. Within these translations of Chinese science, excuse me these Chinese translations of western science, we also find a great deal of discussion about the world of souls, spirits, and God. Now this may seem a bit, a bit at odds with their desire to convey the wonders of science to 19th century Chinese, but we have to remember that even if you crack open an English or an American chemistry book from the mid-19th century, the language, it's full of the language of natural theology. This idea that while you are observing nature, you're also going to be able to perceive through nature the existence of God. And this kind of language is woven into Chinese translations. So we discover that for example, interplanetary gravitation is very similar to the principles of Christian fraternity. Or that the telegraph works in ways similar to the Creator's boundless love for mankind. This spiritual world contains similar forces to what we find in science, but with one very important caveat and I just want you to remember this, that you could not define, you could not understand, you could not touch these ideas of the spirit with apparatus. And indeed that was what distinguished the world of the spirit from the world of science. The world of the spirit had to rely, in these texts, on human feeling, human perception, human emotion, and an enlightened mind, enlightened by readings of ancient western texts, such as the Bible. So what I'd like to move on to now, is how a very important person in the history of Chinese medicine encountered these ideas of air and made them make sense within his own tradition of qi. I'd like here to turn to the works of Tang Zonghai, a physician of Chinese medicine who is well known for exploring western science and who is now considered one of the founding fathers of what's called East-West convergence medicine. Tang was born in Sichuan, but frequently went to places like Shanghai, where he was exposed to western texts, western medicine, and western science. In his magnum opus, the Convergence of Chinese and Western Medicine: Essentials from the Medical Classics, Tang discussed the basics of Chinese medicine in light of his understanding of western science. Now Tang's discussion of qi figures largely in his work. In one example, which is really wonderfully analyzed in the work of Sean Lei, and I'm borrowing it here, Tang had looked at western anatomy texts and discerned that the bladder, depicted here in a cross section of the lower abdomen, actually was the source of qi that powered the body. Tang creatively combined his readings of western anatomy texts and Chinese medical texts to discovery that the urinary bladder was where the heat of fire, classically associated with the gate of life, boiled the water held in the bladder, giving rise to a steam like qi, which Tang called qingqi. Qingqi could just be light qi, or he could have meant hydrogen, we're not quite sure because of this moment, meanings were in flux. And this light qi rose from the body's nether regions and began its energetic circulation throughout the body, powering human existence, just the way that steam powers movements in machines. Now another formulation I think, another way of interpreting this is it's not just a steam engine, but it actually in Tang's mind was replicating Lavoisier's experiments for separating hydrogen and oxygen from water, depicted here. So the analogy can go both ways, either to anatomy or to chemistry. Now, other forms of qi as gas further animated Tang's understanding of the qi of Chinese medicine. Tang found an important east-west convergence to explain respiration. He stated, for example, that the basic Chinese medical fact that humans through breathing, was actually the way that humans received the yang of heaven. And this yang of heaven nurtured the body's internal qi. Now to explain this process, Tang turned to oxygen, saying that yangqi, or the qi that nurtures life, which is the way that oxygen is translated, was actually the same as yang qi, or the qi of yin yang. So there's a little play on words here. You know, the yangqi of Priestly's experiments being basically the same as the yangqi, the qi of heaven, or the qi of yin and yang. Now Tang wasn't entirely comfortable with this explanation, he felt that yes western science perhaps had with their implements discovered something about yang qi, but if Tang was pushed to understand what exactly was the relationship between oxygen and yin yang, he actually finds a very interesting, extremely interesting convergence. "Western medicine speaks of a Lord of Creation "that benevolently nurtures humanity. "This so called Lord of Creation is in fact "the spirit of Heaven and Earth. "This is similar to the basic Chinese principle "that man is born of Heaven and Earth. "The idea is more or less the same, "but he works are slightly different. "Heaven and Earth are nothing more than yin and yang, "which transforms qi to produce the Five Phases "and the Six Climatic Influences." As we've seen, regardless of the technical nature of their texts, missionary translators often emphasized the central role of the creator in their work. Now Tang, inspired by his readings, discerned through careful logic and inference that the starting point for western science was God. Tang sees the western Lord of Creation as a personification of the patterns of the cosmos, an invisible force that manifests in the myriad things of the universe in the same ways that yin and yang manifests in the 10,000 things. Tang has the freedom here to toggle back and forth between God and gas without concern about how to distinguish one from the other. Now ultimately Tang viewed western science as nothing but an inelegant empirical hodge podge, a complex but ultimately futile manipulation of tubes, flasks and bunsen burners. I think that Tang was very aware of the fact that his qi was discerned in this manner. And their qi was discerned in this way. In the end, according to Tang, the west's manipulations only revealed the existence of certain limited types of qi, which Chinese medicine had long ago understood without the aid of apparatus. The existence of qi was readily discernible, readily knowable, a part of the physical universe that could be perceived even though it was invisible, through a reading of the classical texts, and directly perceived by examining nature through the unmediated human senses. So in conclusion, I've taken you kind of through this whirlwind tour of early modern and 19th century and early 20th century science and chemistry and Tang Zonghai's opinions. But now I'm gonna make a rather jarring leap to the present. And to remind us with some regret that what awaits us outside, maybe not today, but what awaits us outside in many parts of the world is a jumble of gases that has been increasingly rendered unfit to sustain life. And of course as recent events have taught us, these concerns are not limited to China, but are global concerns that are experienced close to home, including in the Bay Area. This is a recent photograph of the San Francisco skyline during the October northern California fires. Now during those recent fires in the north, the US frequently compared, excuse me, US media frequently compared the air quality of San Francisco to that of Beijing in order to highlight just how bad the air had become. And while commentators in the US media, and I thought this was really interesting, I don't know if you picked this up but listening to these news reports they'd always say, well you can't, don't jump to conclusions, we can't blame it on climate change, the fact that, you know, good parts of northern California are burning. So even though that seemed to be outside of the realm of climate change, it's very clear that scientists have clearly demonstrated that urban China's bouts of bad air are not simply the direct results of localized factory fumes or car exhaust. They are instead brought about by the steady and ongoing alteration of global weather patterns. Warming in the arctic, storms in Siberia, the stilling of winds over central Asia, all of these things linked to global warming. So we must confront the fact that air is everywhere. But increasingly we are left with no place of refuge, no matter where we call home. So how might these considerations of the history of air and qi connections, and links between China and the west, shed light on our current airborne crisis. I will briefly mention that I turned to the internet then to see well what do experts on taijiquan and qigong tell us we should worry about, or how should we guard our bodies against the current airpocolypses that we encounter. What I find is quite interesting. While contemporary China is awash in newfound enthusiasm for traditional qi based techniques, when it comes to discussing the state of air, the state of qi that is not gas, is rarely discussed. Instead, the harm to the body is discussed in very scientific terms in various qigong websites. Chemical and physiological terms that emphasize respiration, oxygen, particulate matter, harmful gases. And taiji and qigong practitioners are simply encouraged to take it indoors, right. Just to avoid the places where this harmful xieqi, well they don't call it xieqi, just harmful wu mai emerges. It seems that the solution is to focus on individual bodies in ways that harken back to some techniques from traditional Chinese yangsheng, and medical ways of dealing with bad qi, and not to focus on potential wider social implications. Now this is perhaps not surprising given the censorship and the self-censorship of the Chinese internet, but I find that any discussion of qi within the problem of wu mai is more or less devolves down to just some kind of personal responsibility for nurturing one's qi no matter how the world is going. In Chinese medicine, now if we turn to a different arena, I've taken a look at a lot of traditional Chinese medical journals from the PRC, and there are a few articles on the problem of wu mai. And these too discuss the problem in terms of PM 2.5, are you all up on your PM 2.5, this fine particulate matter that can lodge in the lungs and potentially lead to lung cancer. Sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, but these articles also suggest that wu mai is nothing new. Chinese medicine has known about it for a long time because it's just like liqi, or the lin-nan duwu. Which is a rather fallacious claim if you think about it because premodern xiangqi or liqi was seldom associated with urban environments but more with rural environments. But the articles all suggest that in spite of the seriousness of wu mai induced illnesses, Chinese medicine has a way of conceptualizing it, treating it, and even preventing it. Many hold out the idea that by strengthening the body's qi with proper diet and with Chinese medicines that resistance to airborne disease can be achieved. Now when I see this kind of conclusion published in the pages of a Chinese, a TCM journal, I start to wonder if the authors of these articles are stockholders in one of the many Chinese pharmaceutical companies that produce anti-smog tea. Teas that claim to clear the lungs, or boost the lung qi with ancient Chinese formulas. Not only do these teas claim to lessen the impact of smog-borne toxins, but they also claim to protect against toxins, and that's in this add further down, toxins that come from second hand smoke, car exhaust, and even the noxious fumes from the air conditioners in your offices, you know all about that. So there have been frequent crack downs against this kind of a product, but these products continue to be advertised widely on the internet. And my favorite advertisement is this one. This is, in my conclusion I'd like to just take a look at this image, 'cause it's very interesting. This is an advertisement for qing fei yin, or lung clearing beverage. The advertisement features a threatening gray sky looming over an equally gray Earth, so there's your tian and your di, both in bad shape. And nothing but darkness on the horizon. The future does not look good. The ad features the Chinese character of mai, or haze, literally, followed by the English phrase, "What's the matter?" And I think the Chinese phrase is much more poignant and compelling. It says, (speaking foreign language) "What is the matter with this world?" The Chinese, sorry, to the right of this ominous image we see a lovely natural, probably recycled, made from recycled materials brown paper bag containing the lung clearing beverage, and a picture of the inviting amber brown tea in a clear glass. Beautiful green leaves swirl around the tea while in the background an image of a flourishing green tree with abundant green roots symbolize the refreshed state of the lungs after we drink this tea. The ad copy states, quote, "Cherish every breath of air we take." Right down in here, "Purify our brittle and weakened lungs." Indeed this seems like a wonderful bit of advice, but I can't help, I can help but observe that if we had actually cherished each and every breath that we take in the first place, we wouldn't have to spend up to 1000 renminbi for a concoction from the Tangren, of course Tangren Tang's is the best, and it costs up to a thousand hui to purify our frail and brittle lungs. So to conclude, thinking through this historical relationship between qi and air, for me the most interesting question has been how air and qi have been perceived, how their ontologies have been formed, and how their existences have been substantiated. We have seen how Daoist adepts, practitioners of traditional health techniques, physicians of Chinese medicine all knew and experienced qi directly as something simultaneously imminent of this world and yet at the same time transcendent, linking the human body directly to the cosmos. And the human mind and the human body could directly understand this qi, grasp its nature, and as it was breathing, being breathed in it could even, the human mind could even harness the power of qi within the body. Air emerged as a thing, first with the Jesuits and later with 18th and 19th century scientists. Qi became gas, defined as real because it could be rendered apparent through the interaction with objects. Laboratory apparatus provided the truth about the constituent elements of the universe, which could be manipulated, separated, and put to use, or instrumentalized through chemistry. At the turn of the century Chinese physicians such as Tang Zonghai provocatively and confidently questioned the primacy of these western techniques of defining and limiting qi. He claimed that a knowledge of the natural world was possible and indeed superior without machines. Unperturbed by the role of apparatus in divining and policing the border between the physical and the spiritual, Tang through the vehicle of qi was able to conceptualize of oxygen as God. We seem to live in a world where Tang Zonghai-like convergences are no longer viable. The qi, let's get to our final picture. The qi of Chinese medicine has emerged, particularly in the west, as a form of energy. This is how we talk about it, but the nature of this energy is obscure and suspect. And as a matter of fact the US National Institutes of Health puts an interesting spin on this. It defines Chinese medicine as a form of energy medicine, acknowledging the centrality of qi, but then it insists that this energy is putative. Or to put it in plain English, not real. Since it cannot be detected in scientific apparatus, it is fundamentally different from and suspect compared to veritable forms of energy such as light and heat. Perhaps this consideration of the history of air and qi connection can provide a genealogy for this crucial division. It certainly illuminates the particulars of Chinese medical concepts in the turn of the century at a time of great social and intellectual change. But I'd like to suggest that perhaps like all history unraveling these threads to the past can illuminate the paths that brought us to our current state and offer ways of creating change. So I began this talk with a few basic questions. What is qi? What is air? What is the relationship between qi and air? My ruminations on the history of qi and air have perhaps generated more questions than I've answered, and I'm very much looking forward to Wen-hsin's comments and to your questions at the end of our session. But I'd like to leave you with these last few questions that this history has inspired for me. Not just as a scholar of Chinese history, but as a person who lives between the Earth and the Heaven. When we inhale what are we breathing? What do we think we are breathing when we breathe? And would it make a difference to this world to think with every breath that we take, that what we are doing is far more than just breathing air. So thank you very much for your kind attention. (audience applauding) - Thank you. It's very interesting. Thank you Ruth for this most provocative and inspiring talk. I don't think I will ever breathe the same way I did before. Okay, our respondent today is professor, our own Professor Yeh Wen-hsin, Richard and Laurie Morrison Chair Professor in History at UC Berkeley. Professor Yeh is a leading historian of modern China and I would just give you some very selective feel of her representative works which include Shanghai Splendor: Economic Sentiments and the Making of Modern China, 1843-1949. And also Provincial Passages: Culture, Space, and the Origins of Chinese Communism, 1919-1927. And also The Alienated Academy: Culture and Politics in Republican China, 1919-1937. The list is way too long, I will stop right here. Wen-hsin, please. (audience applauding) - Thank you You-tien for that introduction, which I trust has made it amply clear to this entire audience that about the subject that Ruth just presented, I know close to nothing. So I am truly honored to be asked to function as a quote unquote "discussant". And then since I know so very little about this whole domain of expertise I thought what I might do is to share with you what I hear as the way that she puts her argument together and I what I thought her project is. And then giving you a chance to dig in to the presentation and come up with better questions. So, I think Ruth made it clear from the outset that it's this picture which went around on Weibo and the Chinese internet. And this is an intriguing picture. Namely a bronze statue and then wearing mask. Which leads her to ask this question, what is that qi, right, air in a qigong practice and then in the, was qigong that qi as a different sort of qi. So the air that people breathe in, right, but specifically in the context of the practice of qigong, right. So that is an important part of it. So how does she set this up? Well so, she sets this up through deep research into the textual origins, or the discursive evolution of the notion of qi in qigong, or that informed the practice of qigong, that there is a deep cosmology behind this word qi. And this qi is both a cause of transformative events in between Heaven and Earth, and then also in itself a substance. This qi is both relational and then also experiential. It's relational in the sense that it comes into being through the context of human senses such as sight, hearing, smell, et cetera, right. So it's not a thing to itself, or in itself, but nonetheless it's both the foundation of mass as well as the form that objects take. So that is only a convoluted way on my part making an effort to recapture what she had expressed so succinctly, so wonderfully, about the deep philosophical foundation of the concept of qi which informed the practice of qigong. Now it's a vision of a cosmic order which then takes us through this whole question of where do human being take up position within this cosmic flow of qi. In other words, the relationship between ren and tian or di. In other words it's not a bifurcated relationship but a three way thing. So once we get into the ren part, the human part of this, Ruth takes us to the subject of medicine. And to the wellbeing of the physical body. In other words about the sheng rather than simply the shen, right. Not just a notion of this human form or human body taking material form as shen, but more specifically to the notion of yangsheng, nourishing the wellbeing of livelihood. So with that then, once we put human beings in the center of this universe that she's presenting to us, and with an emphasis on how it's important to harmonize qi through the sort of practice such as qigong, then to my mind, having my background at some point in time in neo-Confucianism, this other thing kicks in, namely what about li? What is the relationship between li and qi when it comes to the, a vision about the universe with human beings being at its center and attempting to do things, bringing order to the universe as well as bringing benefits to the self. So as we know that in neo-Confucian philosophy there have been all kinds of position being taken about the relationship between li or patterns and principles off the evolution of the yin and yang as opposed to the qi. Namely li and qi are they possibly in opposition or do they always move in conjunction. Now we know that we don't know the answers. We know that ju-shee and die-jun do not disagree, but that's beside the point. The point here is simply that for a qigong practitioner in the late 19th century or in the 20th century to practice the qigong and to think about the qi there is a probably more than one way to conceptualize or to think about what this qi it's supposed to be in terms of its cosmic nature, as well as how that human presence or human existence might take part in it. So that seems to me to be one part of a very interesting, exquisitely done part of her presentation. And then of course we moved on to this other part, here comes the Jesuits. And after the Jesuits encounter with a different paradigm when it comes to science. So here Ruth tells us that this sino-western encounter, it did not happen all of a sudden out of nowhere just yesterday. In fact, people had been working on this for nearly 500 years. And she also made it clear that in terms of the dynamics there had been efforts coming in from both directions to look for compatibilities or intersections. So there were strategic decisions being made in the translation of texts, trying to render one tradition intelligible to the other. And people were also open to the idea of adopting solutions. So here then out of this tradition, out of John Fryer and so forth, we come to a better understanding within the Chinese educated context of this thing called air or kongqi as such with its chemical components, with the kind of things that could be subjected to technological solutions should the gas or should the air turn out to be poisonous, so on and so forth. So happily there were people coming up with pharmaceutical products, masks, all kinds of products and then being consumed with enthusiasm by a Chinese public. So far, I mean, as we get to that part of the presentation we see a presentation about the convergence through translation and how that this is not a contested process. Namely it's not about China against the west or tradition versus modernity. Those old binaries can be safely set aside. But then beyond that, she also made it clear that there are after all limits about what might be translatable in terms of these, the foundational differences between these two paradigms. And then also there are limits of the practicality of certain kinds of convergence. So Tang Zonghai appears to be the one person in her example who has gone as far as it possibly could, right, translating God, Shen, essentially as the li of yin and yang, right, the transformative patterns and principles when it comes to the qi of yin and yang rotating with each other. So God in that sense may be translated or understood as the embodiment or as a western way of embodying the notion of the li. But nonetheless there appear to be differences beyond that. Namely this is a shen which has to kind of ling, which then in Confucian or neo-Confucian moral philosophy and cosmology does not quite ascribe to the notion of li in that regard. But anyway, up to now, right, we are dealing with issues in the domains which are normative as well as technological. We are reading text books, we are reading people who prescribe and make efforts to come up with solutions. So up to that point we are in the 19th century and then we make a leap and we get into the 20th century and we have our wonderful picture here. And Ruth poses the question, what is the qi which now as we know after the 19th century, educated Chinese public would begin to think of it in terms of chemistry as opposed to the qi which the qigong it's supposed to be nurturing, or introducing into the system as part of placing the body of the self to be in tune with the cosmic flow of things. So in other words the same qi, qi in qigong at this point simultaneously draws upon the cosmological and the technological understandings of the concept of qi. And coming together in a way that, well, I think that's in some ways ultimately Ruth's question. Does it address problems, does it provide solutions to issues. So I think that, so for me to wrap this up, my understanding of what she has accomplished, I think what the paper has accomplished extremely well is that by the end of her presentation as we look at this picture again, we understand the depth of significance when it comes to the word qi, and the multi-faceted dimensions of it. So we might initially think that to put the mask on the face of Cai Yuanpei might be something that we should laugh about, but by the end of her presentation I for one find myself thinking what would be a more interesting response. Is this something to be laughed at? Are we looking at the image of an ultimate paradox when it comes to the incompatibility between two foundational philosophical traditions, or are we looking at a very pragmatic effort to bring the two sides together without asking too many questions. What is it, what is it about this image to which we might most productively or interestingly respond? So that's my response, number one. And then my response number two to her overall presentation, she's using this to try to open up this whole question of whether there might be a solution to the issue of pollution or climate issues. Which are of course much bigger and broader going beyond instances of qigong practice and the issue of whether it is possible or it's not possible for a qigong practitioner to be practicing indoor, closing all windows so that one could safe guard the quality of the air that one breathes in, right. We see the absurdity in fact, thanks to her presentation. Or the impossibility of that sort of a solution. But nonetheless we are left with the question that what are the better solutions. What is the reward of a better understanding of an image like this, of the making of this conjunction that is the outcome, a outcome like this. What is the reward on our part that we arrive at a better understanding of the genealogy, the paradox, and the challenges. So those are my efforts, and your turn now. (audience laughing) (audience applauding) Thank you. - [You-tien] Would you like to respond first? - Ah. - [You-tien] Or are you? No we opened up the floor. You don't have to, Wen-hsin says. - [Wen-hsin] No, up to you, up to you. - Well I think what I'll do is, how 'bout we open up the floor and I can work in. I'm sure that some of the questions from the floor will also have commensurability with Wen-hsin's really wonderful comments, so. - [You-tien] I'll let you take questions. - Okay. - [Woman] Will you use the microphone? - [Woman] Before China won the bid for the Olympics they had a massive tree planting campaign and I haven't been following, has that affected the quality of air in China, because trees are pretty wonderful exchanges of oxygen. - That is true, I'm not sure. So from a chemist's perspective, right, which I'm not an atmospheric chemist, but so that would help with certain gases but not too much with say the fine particulate matters, like PM 2.5, the things that that the Chinese physicians are thinking of that's the du, in the duqi, it's the stuff that lodges in your body and I think that's the trees aren't gonna help you there. - [Woman] Thank you for your talk. I want to ask if perhaps one of the differences between qi and air might not only be that air was made visible through apparatus, but also, which follows from this, that it can be quantified, and measured with precise numbers. Because if you think about the language of qi you can always talk about like buqi, but you can't really say like, when I see my Chinese doctor, right, and like oh how is it today, 70 or 80, right. - That's right, that's right. - [Woman] And then with regard to the 20th century question one thing that climate sciences have often struggled with is although we can with greater precision or objectivity, measure certain things like pollution levels, when it comes to mobilizing public opinion, we are very challenged because climate change happens in ways that are either too fast, too slow, too big, or too small for us to really render in a way that humans find that they can understand. Whereas if you show pictures of polar bears dying, you're like oh God, this is terrible, okay I'm gonna stop driving my Hummer. So I wonder if precisely what is the advantage of air, it being quantifiable sometimes works against it in other ways. - Really interesting, very productive questions. I think the, although I did not address it in my presentation the next step is the quantification. I think for someone like Tang Zonghai, the text that he was examining, the Xu Shou and John Fryer text hadn't quite gotten to the quantification, but that is sort of the next step. So the, your question is what are the implications of the ability to quantify, and are there advantages or disadvantages of thinking about numbers and translating numbers into social, into social action. Because of course we have the numbers, the air quality index numbers, but once, so it 700 one day, but the winds shift and the next day it's back down to a good old 105 or something, which is still bad. But that quantification once again is variable. I think we have to start talking about time as you mentioned. I'm suggesting, and this is really kind of going out on a limb and really kind of xiang fei fei kind of stuff, but I think what helps mobilize is tapping into religious sentiment. I mean, I almost hesitate to use the term religious sentiment, but some other emotive aspect is perhaps a missing element to the question of action. And perhaps qi. And so I'm really stating this baldly in ways that I was skirting around in the talk, perhaps qi can open that door. But thank you. - [Woman] I wanted to ask you whether you could say a little bit more about how similar or different this cosmological notion of qi is from the stoic notion of pneuma. Because in Greek stoicism there's this notion of pneuma, which there are many aspects of it which are very similar and I'm sure Matteo Ricci must have known of this notion of pneuma so that when you introduce a more scientific conception of air how does that clash happen with that same tradition that... - Right, that's a extremely good question, I've been asked it before, and have probably failed to adequately respond. Because my knowledge of pneuma is relatively limited. I am thinking, so I would think directly into Ricci's writings and I don't think off hand that he addresses pneuma. Perhaps because it would throw a wrench into the gears. But perhaps I could ask you, pneuma, is it associated also with inorganic, non sentient, non sentient beings? - [Woman] No, technically not. - Okay. - Yeah. - So this, I would suggest, thanks for confirming that, so then I can go on and say that this is one of the main difference that qi, while I think in our contemporary perspective we call it life force, but from a Chinese cosmological and even alchemical, so one of the things that I haven't talked about is like Daoist alchemy. Qi is in things. Qi explains how things change. And those things can be rocks, they don't have to be sentient, so this, this was I think one of the major causes for concern for Jesuits like Ricci, who felt it would be spiritualizing this podium. - [Woman] Well it's just that there is a diff, I mean, a tradition that even runs through say the German Enlightenment, when Kant was dying, the last things he wrote was on what he called the ether proofs, which is really also about this kind of thing, that's the medium between the human being and the external world. And so it seems to me that there is another tradition that you can construct so that it's not just signs versus cosmology. - Yes, I think that's very well taken, and in my larger project I do consider the nature philosophe, the Romanticists that, all of these work in, actually Needham, of course we have to summon Joseph Needham, Needham felt that these guys were actually inspired by Daoism. So it does form a very, difficult matrix to pull apart, but thank you for your comments. - [Man] First of all, apologies for the, the amount of topics I'm about to touch on. Comparing, I really liked the comparison between the, who was it that had the mask? Stenhouse Respirator? - Uh-huh, yeah. - [Man] And this respirator in that we're seeing two similar dysfunctional ways of addressing a problem. And that that problem is, I mean, if we look at it honestly the problem is capitalism mixed with industrialism just carried forward. And then what we have now is, are two different ways of addressing that in terms of politics. We have this democratic thing taking place in the US, which isn't really working, and the one that's taking place in China is also not working. And they're both operating still with this industrial capitalist model on the outside. So that's the science side in terms of the external. And then on the internal I really agree with what you were saying in terms of qi, in terms of emotion. Because one of the goals of a qigong practitioner would then be to have a positive, not just a positive outlook like happy and go lucky, but it was always important to them to integrate somehow with society, or with nature and constantly have this balance of tiandi ren on an individual level, having that somehow integrate with either a martial virtue with taijiquan or with medicine in terms of treating patients or treating oneself, and the relationship between those and society gets fairly complex when you have a society such as in China where the most recent response to lots of people practicing qigong together with religion, right, that went very poorly. And then here we have perhaps not enough of a unified sense of either a religion or a common shared understanding of life energy on an individual level that relates with other individuals on a community and then state-nation level that one might find in China. So you see how I'm making two different connections there, there's more there but that's what I'm getting from your talk, it's very interesting. - Well I'm glad my talk inspired some of those thoughts. I think, I tend to feel, as an historian I tend to feel more comfortable following that thread to the past in the hopes that will give occasional epiphanies of how we got here. I think it may be the goal of others such as yourself and other scholars to move that discussion forward. But indeed the question of there does community, where does society come into this picture I've left quite blank. So I appreciate your comments. - [Man] Yes, a wonderful talk and a very inspiring discussion. So I benefit a lot from both of them. My question would be about the mapping of the past and present, private and public, kind of the main threads you organized the talk, and that stimulates a lot of discussion already. I think I can reorganize your thought in such a way that you seemed to, put the tradition of the qi or medical tradition of qi on the side of individual self-care. And you follow the thread and in today's situation seems, it seems that people retreat into that domain when they try to use or reactivate the discourse of qi in dealing with the air pollution. They also, under the commercial manipulation, they kind of retreat to themselves to seek out a solution. But I wonder how the concern of your first book, Hygienic Modernity can play, can play into this situation because that is about, really about, the use of governmentality. Is it the retreat of the individual self-care simply a protest or a refreshing of failure of the public domain and the irresponsibility nature of the current government or is it that this individualization of self-care actually still comes hand in hand with the larger scale of govermentality in which the government does do all kind of (mumbles), quantification, public reminder, and (mumbles) it's okay with all kinds of commercial exploitation of this kind of a desire to keep oneself healthy. And this is actually happening on this very public larger lesson of scale. And I wonder, with the notion of government (mumbles) can help us put the two things together going beyond our simply speaking or implying about the failure of the government and the public being manipulated by the commercial vendors. So that is my. - You know, I might want to take this in possibly a different direction. I think the idea of noting government, the Foucauldian paradigm of governmentality and how that would play into this, particularly in the Chinese context where the contemporary government does raise high the banner of science, and is doing what it ought to do as a an enlightened modern government that could take care of things while people are subsumed under this umbrella as objects perhaps more than subjects. Having already imbibed the discipline of knowledge in the state. I think that's, it's very intriguing, it's almost I don't want to use the term emasculation, but a kind of a de-energizing of the potential of non-government led social change that could be based on individual experiences as I'm seeing it. But I'm gonna leap for a second here from what you mentioned. I'm gonna go from Foucault to ju-shee, and talk about li. I'm really kind of out on a limb here. Not having the neo, have been scrambling for the past several years with a neo-Confucian background, but the idea of the li as the patterns which for example Tang Zonghai, he never talks, Tang Zonghai, most medical texts you're not going to see discussion of li, they're just a little too practical for that, but thank you for alerting me to the fact that that's what is behind, Tang Zonghai is a, he has gin-sure, he's actually a government official. So he's well imbued in these ways of thinking. You know, the question of li always relates back to the question of morality. And the stance that not only individuals in pursuit of moral excellence, but by extension a government, would also, so I'm, I'm kind of going back to more traditional ways of thinking about the role of government. So Wen-hsin asked me where's the li in all of this. And I have to say, and it's perhaps 'cause I'm looking at these medical texts, I find it absent. I do think that ling-holn is suggesting a way that I can bring this public sphere into the equation, but I definitely have to do that work, I think. I'm not sure where I would, I will not find it in medical texts, which is where I've been positioning my focus. (muffled speaking) Within the 20th century, the first half of the 20th century these musings. I think... A lot of food for thought there but I appreciate this. - [Woman] Yeah, just to follow up on the sociality of this question, because at some point in your talk you actually mentioned it's very individual. You know, your yangsheng, you do these kind of things really your own body, you also mentioned this just now. I'm just wondering, if we give this qi business a little bit more of a dynamic conceptualization because first of all qi is also transferable. And you see this healer, this master healer of qigong and this person can exercise in qi, right, An entire room full of people could be healed in just one, you know, I heard about this, you know I read about this news, but we don't even know, and but, you know, people do believe that one person can actually help in a group. Or, you know, you can transfer your qi to heal. Or it's transformative because the person with this, you know, it's a moral, also that has some more implication because one person with this zhengqi can actually try to at least morally influence those people with deviant qi, right with the xieqi. So there is that kind of connection beyond this individualistic conceptualization of this qi. So I just wonder whether that plays any role in the understanding, you know, of the cosmology of our qi analysis. - Yes, yes. And I think one of the disjunctures that you are noticing in this work, I do turn toward the medical texts because that's where I feel more comfortable. I think I've been trying to make this a medical history project and qi keeps flowing out all over the place, just going between my fingers to different areas. And obviously, I mean, especially since I invoked the whole thing with the qi, with this image, the question of qigong practitioners. I think you know, there's been some research on this, especially the 1980s as a moment of qigong ru, right. And the participation of scientists and also the government and the state in investigating these. Sorry, that's the universal symbol for, you know, sending out your qi, these kinds of phenomenon, but as this gentleman suggested, you know, once we get into the '90s in falun-gong, we see that this doesn't work out so well. It can be, obviously anyone who knows anything about the history of Daoism knows that it certainly has been in the past a basis for revolution, well for rebellion. Whether or not it can be a basis for revolution, there we go, is another question. But thank you for invoking that. - Any other questions? - There's a guy in the back. - [Man] Hi, thank you very much for your talk again, I learned a lot. And it's really interesting for me as well since I've studied atmospheric chemistry as well here. So it's really interesting for me as well. One thing I'm very interested in is your, how you, you know, illustrated how Matteo Ricci when he came, you know, he, for lack of a more elegant way to put it, sort of, you know, hijacked the definition of qi for, you know, for the purposes of spreading Christianity and other things as you talked about. And I'm wondering now as science has progressed, you know like you said in the 19th century texts there was always a connection between chemical concepts to God, and as we've progressed through the 20th century and now the 21st century and as the west in general becomes a lot less religious and science becomes more and more secularized you know, when we think of, when we learn about gases or anything, any chemical concepts, we never associate them with God. And so the definition of chemical concepts is, you know, progressed and has moved on past that association with the divine and more, you know, more and more to a more secular state. And I'm wondering, you know, this definition, the definition of qi, you know, as it has now been associated with gas and other physical observables that, as opposed to a more traditional Chinese definition, are there any, you know, how, are there any efforts to decolonize this definition in any way, and how is that progress. Is that something that's seen as a favorable end, and I guess that's sort of my question, thanks. - I'm gonna get your name so I can quote you on that term, or that phrase, to decolonize definitions of qi. I think that's what I'm calling for. I have to work harder to find it. I know it's there, so here's the thing, another problem with sources, the internet. I mean, you can maybe jump on free, what is it, free cena, you know, the posts that are put out there, but then that get taken down? There's a cache for those posts so you can see what's, what is censored. And I have not yet embarked on the kind of more field work and ethnography aspect. As you can see it's very heavily text based. I suspect very strongly, and I was hoping that there would be some, some leaders of the movement here at Berkeley in my audience today, but I suspect very strongly that there are, there are such movements. Thinking of the work of Mei Zhan at UC Irvine, who, so she's looking at younger people who are great enthusiasts for the I Ching, for the Book of Changes, for example. Of younger Chinese physicians who are going old school, right, that they're not taking, they're not gonna take it anymore, this way of teaching traditional Chinese medicine that insists there are these one to one correspondences with modern scientific terms. So there is, yeah there is such a movement. I do think it tends to be among certain younger urban elites. And it's out there on the internet but I just haven't been able to reach it. But thank you very much. - So is there any question? Well, okay thank you very much Ruth for this wonderful talk. And thank you Wen-hsin for the discussion, and thank you for coming and for your questions, thank you. (percussive musical interlude)
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Channel: UC Berkeley Events
Views: 7,258
Rating: 4.8083835 out of 5
Keywords: UC, Berkeley
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Length: 99min 51sec (5991 seconds)
Published: Tue Nov 14 2017
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