AND WE ARE WAITING A RALLY AFTER THAT BIG AND AMBITIOUS SPEECH TO CONGRESS LAST NIGHT. WE’RE KEEPING AN EYE ON THIS. WE HAVE SPECIAL GUESTS AND WE WILL DIP IN AND LISTEN TO HIM LIVE. WE BEGIN, THOUGH, WITH THE BIGGEST STORY IN THE COUNTRY, THE CRIMINAL PROBE INTENSIFYING INTO RUDY GIULIANI. THE STORY THAT TOUCHES NOT ONLY ONERING WE LIVED THROUGH IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS BUT WHERE WE’RE HEADED NOW AS A NATION AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR AN EX-PRESIDENT WHO REMAINS UNDER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION FOR TRYING TO STEAL AN ELECTION. WHAT’S NEW IS THE FEDS NOW HAVE GIULIANI’S PHONE AND ELECTRIC DEVICES AND COMPUTER AFTER RAIDING HIS APARTMENT AND OFFICE. GIULIANI SPEAKING OUT NOW ON WHAT HE’S UP AGAINST AND THE RAID. HERE’S WHAT HE SAID. >> THE REPORT A MOMENT AGO IS THAT THE SEARCH WARRANT INVOLVES MY PRESSURING UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS ON BEHALF OF PRESIDENT TRUMP. NOTHING OF THE SORT. THE SEARCH WARRANT INVOLVES SOMETHING TOTALLY OPPOSITE. SEARCH WARRANT IS ONE ACT OF FAILING TO REGISTER AS A FOREIGN -- FAILING TO FILE AS A FOREIGN AGENT, WHICH IS COMPLETELY FALSE. >> THIS IS MR. GIULIANI’S RESPONSE TO DEFENSE. WE’RE NOT ABLE AT THIS TIME TO FACT CHECK IT YET. ALTHOUGH, ALL OF IT IS COMING THROUGH DIFFERENT SOURCES. WHAT HE IS ASSERTING IS THAT THE ISSUE AT HAND WAS AN ALLEGED FAILURE TO REGISTER AS A FOREIGN AGENT. HE’S DENYING THAT HE ACTUALLY MADE THAT FAILURE. NOW, WE DON’T KNOW WHAT ELSE IS COMING. BUT FOR A JUDGE TO APPROVE THIS TYPE OF SOURCE, THEY BELIEVE GIULIANI HAS EVIDENCE OF A CRIME. NOW, DONALD TRUMP’S DOJ TRIED TO HOLD BACK THIS SEARCH ACCORDING TO "THE NEW YORK TIMES." TODAY I MENTIONED HOW BIG A STORY THIS IS. IT TOUCHES ON THE INSURRECTION. IT TOUCHES ON WHETHER DONALD TRUMP BROKE LAWS IN TWO PLOTS AGAINST THE BIDENS, BASICALLY. THE FIRST ONE OF COURSE WITH THE UKRAINE MALFEASANCE AND THE SECOND ONE WHAT WE ALL RECENTLY LIVED THROUGH, THE EFFORT BY GIULIANI TO OVERTURN A LAWFUL ELECTION. SO THE NEW PRESIDENT UNDERSTANDABLY ASKED ABOUT THIS. PRESIDENT BIDEN TELLING CRAIG MELVIN HE DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS FEDERAL RAID BEFOREHAND. >> WERE YOU AWARE OF THAT RAID BEFORE IT HAPPENED? I. >> GIVE YOU MY WORD I WAS NOT. I MADE A PLEDGE. I WOULD NOT INTERFERE IN ANY WAY, ORDER OR TRY TO STOP ANY INVESTIGATION THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAD. I LEARNED ABOUT THAT LAST NIGHT WHEN THE REST OF THE WORLD LEARNED ABOUT IT. >> THAT’S VERY INTERESTING. AND WHATEVER HAPPENS IN THIS CASE, OF COURSE, IT IS A MARKETED CONTRAST HOW DONALD TRUMP TRIED TO ILLICITLY CONTROL ASPECTS OF THE GOVERNMENT THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE INDEPENDENT. THERE YOU HAVE THE PRESIDENT WHO KNOW WHAT IS A BIG TICKET ISSUE THIS IS. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT RAIDING A LAWYER THAT REPRESENTED THE FORMER PRESIDENT. HE DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT IT IN ADVANCE AND HE WOULDN’T WANT TO BECAUSE HE RESPECTS THE DOJ INDEPENDENCE. INVESTIGATORS MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN A CALL THAT HAS GIULIANI INSTRUCTING HIM TO CALL HIM BACK AT A REDACTED NUMBER, QUOTE, THE SOON TO BE GOTTEN RID OF NUMBER. VERY INTERESTING. AND THIS IS APPARENTLY A QUITE THOROUGH INVESTIGATION. "POLITICO" REPORTS THE FBI INTERVIEWED A FORMER UKRAINIAN LAWMAKER LAST YEAR ABOUT ACTIVITIES THERE AND WE’RE LEARNING THE WARRANTS INCLUDE AN ALLEGATION OF WHAT GIULIANI MENTIONED IN THAT AUDIO I PLAYED YOU TONIGHT, THAT HE FAILED TO REGISTER AS A FOREIGN AGENT. NOW, YOU MAY RECALL WAS SHOWN VIDEO OF GIULIANI IN UKRAINE. A TRIP THAT HE ADMITTED WAS TAKEN ON TRUMP’S BEHALF FOR HIS UKRAINE PLOT. HE SAID WE’RE NOT MEDDLING IN AN ELECTION. WE’RE MEDDLING IN AN INVESTIGATION. THIS ISN’T FOREIGN POLICY AND THAT HE WAS GOING THERE TO HELP HIS CLIENT, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, DONALD TRUMP. AND THERE WAS NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT IT. WELL, THAT’S HIS VIEW. AND HE IS A LAWYER. AND HE USED TO RUN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK. BUT RIGHT NOW, THE PEOPLE WHO DO RUN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK WITH ITS MASSIVE FEDERAL INVESTIGATIVE POWERS AS I’M REPORTING TO YOU, THEY THINK THERE MAY BE ILLEGAL THINGS HERE. THEY CONVINCED A JUDGE THERE MAY BE EVIDENCE OF A CRIME, WHETHER THAT’S COMMITTED BY GIULIANI OR SOMEONE ELSE. AS WE TOLD YOU BEFORE, THESE LEGAL QUESTIONS ARE ULTIMATELY NOT UP TO THE PEOPLE INVOLVED, THE DEFENDANTS OR THE PEOPLE TWEETING OR THE PEOPLE MAKING ALL KINDS OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE. THE LEGAL QUESTIONS ARE RESULTS IN OUR SYSTEM. FIRST OF THE INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS AND THEN TO OUR LEGAL PROCESS. IT IS UP TO THOSE PROCESSES TO DIVIDE. GIULIANI ADMITTING DURING THIS TRIP HE WAS THERE BECAUSE TRUMP ASKED HIM TO GO THERE, SOMETHING THAT TRUMP EVEN DENIED. >> THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, I CAN TELL YOU THIS, IS ASKING FOR THIS. >> HIM TO GO TO UKRAINE AND DO ANYTHING? >> NO, I DIDN’T DIRECT IT. BUT HE IS A WARRIOR. RUDY IS A WARRIOR. >> QUOTE, I DIDN’T DIRECT HIM. SPOKEN LIKE SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN IN AND OUT OF A COURTROOM AND LEGAL PROCESSES FOR A LONG TIME. WHATEVER YOU THINK OF DONALD TRUMP, HE UNDERSTANDS, FROM EXPERIENCE, HOW TO SAY THE WORDS CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYERS TELL YOU TO SAY. YOU DIDN’T DIRECT HIM. YOU WEREN’T INVOLVED. YOU RELIED ON OTHERS. NONE OF THIS LOOKS LIKE GOOD NEWS FOR RUDY GIULIANI. MEANWHILE, I MENTIONED THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT. AN ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY SAYS IT IS A CLEAR INDICATION THEY’RE CLOSE, VERY CLOSE TO INDICTING HIM, EXECUTING THE SEARCH WARRANT. THE QUOTE FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THEIR WAY AROUND THESE PROBES. WITH US IS THAT PERRY HERE TO GIVE US INSIGHTS INTO THE LEGAL PROCESS. MICHAEL STEELE, AND OLIVIA NUZZI. YOU MAY RECALL SOME OF HER COVERAGE OF RUDY GIULIANI THAT WAS INTERESTING LARGELY BECAUSE OF THE WAY GIULIANI ROLLS. HER STORY, A REPORTER’S GUIDE TO TEXTING WITH RUDY GIULIANI. GOOD TO HAVE ALL OF YOU HERE. I GAVE A LITTLE LEGAL SUMMARY AND WE’LL GET TO MORE OF THE LAW. BUT, MICHAEL, I WANT TO BEGIN WITH YOU BIG PICTURE. WHAT DOES IT MEAN EVEN IN A TIME WHERE EVERYONE HAS GOTTEN USED TO EVERYTHING THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT SEES A SECOND TOP ATTORNEY OF HIS INDICTED BY THE -- EXCUSE ME, RAIDED BY THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT, THE PREVIOUS ONE INDICTED. AND WHAT DOES THIS TELL US ABOUT THE HANGOVER FROM THAT TRUMP ERA? >> WELL, IT IS NOT A GOOD DAY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD IF YOU’RE IN THE GIULIANI NEIGHBORHOOD OR IN THE TRUMP NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT THERE ARE FEDERAL INVESTIGATIONS THAT ARE OUT THERE. AND WE DON’T EVEN THOUGH. IT’S A LOT LIKE VERY GOOD REPORTERS, WHEN THEY PUT OUT THE FIRST STORY ABOUT SOMETHING AND IT LIKE BLOWS UP AND EVERYBODY IS LIKE, OH, MY GOD, YOU KNOW THERE IS A SECOND POSSIBILITY OR THIRD OR FOURTH STORY COMING ALONG. SAME IS TRUE IN THIS STORY WITH FEDERAL INDICTMENTS. WHEN THERE IS A HINT OF SOMETHING GOING ON, WHEN THERE IS A RAID OR AN INVESTIGATION, THAT DOESN’T HAPPEN, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT REQUIRES A JUDGE TO SIGN OFF ON IT. IT DOESN’T HAPPEN UNLESS YOU HAVE ALL THOSE DOTS DOTTED AND THOSE Ts CROSSED IN A WAY THAT PUTS SOME CEMENT TO WHAT YOU ARE DOING. I THINK THAT SHOULD BE VERY CONCERNING FOR RUDY AND FOR TRUMP. BUT HERE’S THE RUB. ON THE TRUMP END OF IT, HE’S JUST LIKE RUDY? RUDY WHO? I REALLY DON’T KNOW THE GUY. YOU KNOW, WE MET ON OCCASION, BUT I’M NOT FAMILIAR. WHAT DOES HE DO AGAIN? SO EXPECT THAT TO COME AT SOME POINT IF THE HEAT COMES UP ON THIS WHERE TRUMP CREATES THAT MOVE HE’S KNOWN FOR, CREATING DISTANCE BETWEEN HIM AND THE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS SUSPECT NUMBER ONE, TWO OR TWENTY. AND RUDY AGAIN HAS TO FIGURE OUT HOW HE NAVIGATES THIS SPACE. YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF STORIES OUT THERE ABOUT JUST HOW SORT OF THIN THIS RELATIONSHIP IS BETWEEN RUDY AND DONALD TRUMP IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO WE’LL SEE WHETHER OR NOT THAT HAS AN EFFECT AS THIS INVESTIGATION UNFOLDS. >> AND YOU LOOK AT THE SITUATION. AS MICHAEL MENTIONED, JUST FROM REPORTING THE NEWS, IF ANY FORMER LAWYER TO THE RECENT PRESIDENT HAS THEIR HOME AND OFFICE RAIDED, IT’S A HUGE STORY. IF THIS HAPPENED TO FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA AND HIS FORMER LAWYER OVER LAPPING, IT WOULD BE A BIG DEAL. IT’S HAPPENED NOW TWICE TO DONALD TRUMP. BASED ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF SDNY, AND WE QUOTED YOU EARLIER, WHERE DO YOU SEE A RAID LIKE THIS FIGURING INTO AN OPEN PROBE? >> WELL, AS HE’S SAYING, IT IS HIGHLY UNUSUAL. RAIDS ON LAWYERS’ OFFICES ARE UNUSUAL IN THE FIRST INSTANCE. I HAVE SEEN IT DONE A COUPLE OF TIMES, BOTH ON THE DEFENSE SIDE. I REPRESENTED MICHAEL COHEN WHO I KNOW WILL BE ON LATER AND MICHAEL AVENATTI, BOTH OF WHOM HAD THEIR OFFICES RAIDED. AND THERE IS A LOT OF STEPS IN THE PROCESS. I WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE FOR MANY YEARS OF THE U.S. ATTORNEY’S OFFICE. I HAD TO SIGN OFF ON THESE KINDS OF WARRANTS. AND THE U.S. ATTORNEY HAS TO SIGN OFF. THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE DEPUTY. AND THESE ALMOST ASSUREDLY LINE UP TO THE LEVEL OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. SO IT IS A VERY BIG DEAL. TYPICALLY THE STANDARD IS PROBABLY CAUSE. IN THIS CASE THERE WAS NO DOUBT A MUCH HIGHER THANSTANDARD. I DON’T KNOW IF IT RISES TO BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, BUT THESE LAWYERS AT THE U.S. ATTORNEYS OFFICE HAVE BEEN WAITING A LONG TIME. THEY HAVE RUN THROUGH ALL THE PACES. THEY HAVE THIS LOCKED DOWN. >> YEAH. >> SO THEY ARE FEELING VERY CONFIDENT ABOUT THIS. >> LET’S -- LET’S DRILL ON YOUR POINT THERE JUST TO BE CLEAR. IN A STANDARD SITUATION, PROBABLY CAUSE LOW, MEDIUM STANDARD THERE IS EVIDENCE OF THE CRIME IN THE PLACE BEING SEARCHED, SPECIFIC ARTICULATE FACTS. YOU’RE SAYING IT IS, IN FACT, PRACTICALLY A MUCH HIGHER STANDARD, WHICH MEANS IT IS WORSE FOR GIULIANI? >> I THINK SO. I MEAN, IT’S NOT JUST BECAUSE -- NOT JUST BECAUSE HE’S THE FORMER PRESIDENT’S FORMER LAWYER, BUT ALSO THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A HIGH PROFILE CASE. THE STAKES ARE HIGH. THERE ARE SOME BUILT-IN DEFENSES. THERE ARE POLITICAL DEFENSES. THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT AT STAKE HERE. SO I THINK FOR ALL THOSE REASONS, THEY WILL GO THE EXTRA MILE. NO DOUBT THEY HAVE EXECUTED ADDITIONAL SEARCH WARRANTS BEFORE THEY GOT TO THIS POINT. THEY HAVE, AS MICHAEL SAID, DOTTED ALL THEIR Is AND CROSSED ALL THEIR Ts. I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF THEY COULD INDICT RIGHT NOW. THERE IS A GRAND JURY THAT’S ALREADY IMPANELLED. THIS WAS ABOUT THE PRESENTERS. THEY WILL GO THROUGH THE EVIDENCE. IT COULD TAKE SOME TIME. >> I’M ONLY SLOWING YOU DOWN BECAUSE YOU ARE SUCH A SMART, FAST LAWYER. YOU ARE MOVING FAST ON ME. I’M JUST A COUNTRY TELEVISION LAWYER. YOU’RE SAYING, BASED ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE WAY THESE THINGS WORK, THAT RIGHT NOW YOUR UNDERSTANDING, YOUR PREMISE
