Red Hat Enterprise Linux Presents (E21): Day in the life

[Music] [Applause] [Music] foreign [Music] so [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] good morning good afternoon good evening welcome to another episode of rel presents i am chris short host of red hat live streaming i am joined by the one and only eric hendricks aka eric the it guy eric how are you hey chris i'm doing fantastic especially after uh after our last episode i think folks will be happy to know that i ripped out my server and i'm currently rebuilding it that is wonderful news we had some networking issues and then funny enough i was contacted after the after the episode was over and come to find out that part of our problem was actually not my internet connection but they were working on the certificates for the repository in the middle of our stream that's right i remember seeing the emails like after the fact now the dots are connecting and that makes total sense so we actually planned it that way because we wanted to demonstrate what it was like to be a systems administrator in real life in real life it never fails that you go to do something easy some easy maintenance and inevitably you have 30 days in a month but that's when that's when the the software vendor decides to work on their stuff it's at the exact same time as your as your uh outage window so you know just a little bit of real life on on the show yeah that's my story i'm sticking to it there you go um so you know after last week's debacle you've decided to take a different route this week no demo no no terminal but uh terminal but plenty of plenty of nerdiness yes in fact probably more nerdiness uh in fact this is the long awaited day in the life episode we've we've uh we've prompted this a couple of times on on previous episodes so i'm really really excited to introduce a couple of uh amazing folks uh in fact i will let each of you uh each of you introduce yourselves uh and and ladies first okay i'm alexandre fedora i work in redhead for three years now and before that i was like video ambassador fedor contributor and now i'm also a member of fedora console and my primary area of interest is building the infrastructure for real development building the workflows and the processes for continuous integration inside rel awesome um glad to have you on the show in fact uh i i first uh first got to know you a little bit through the fedora podcast there was uh there was an episode where you and the host chatted a little bit i think it was about a new release of fedora server in fact yeah we probably discussed that and also with fedora survey which we planned so we do some stuff in fedora well glad to have you on the show and uh simo why don't you introduce yourselves as well all right i've been with that i forgot 14 years something like that and i i started my career working around focus of stuff samba was the project was working on uh before joining for many years and then my focus has always been more around security identity you know that kind of stuff and currently i ended up leading the well well crypto team where we work on cryptography and all the libraries you know around there including certificates and certificate management and so your server [Laughter] that's amazing well uh i i may or may not trash talk to you during the show today but i i think uh i i wasn't intending to go this direction but i think i will ask that question uh what what is the culture like here at red hat because it seems it seems to be that uh that that's that's kind of the big thing people think about is is not rel or security or a hybrid cloud platform but we're known very much for for our culture so how does red hat shape up and how does uh how does that compare to other environments you've been in and then we'll kind of backtrack into that you know how you got started and things that uh and and one other quick thing if you are watching us live we've got the chat open please by all means throw your questions in there i would love to get your all's uh questions get your feedback and uh and i mean they are here for you this is your all's hour so uh definitely preference goes to uh to live questions that come in yeah if you got real questions bring them in or openshift for that matter so timo do you want to start with a culture finn yeah you want to hear the dinosaur first okay so [Music] uh well cultural reddit uh it's uh it's not easy to define i would say like everything but it has changed uh over time of course i mean we've been here quite a while but not in the ways one might think i mean when i joined we were already quite big according to some other colleagues i've been older around i think just a little bit about a hundred thousand people and now a lot more right like tenfold or more and even though that happened uh there is a an extremely interesting culture of communication and also initiative within radar in general i would say although there are many differences because at this point where that has so many you know components as well which is what i'm used to there is no other other parts but in general there's this real great thing about communication and you know technical knowledge uh to the highest level everywhere um yeah it's a really inclusive uh culture i would say at least that's my experience of the little bit there i guess but i i maybe feel like there's a lot of understanding a lot of sharing you know within within our walls even though it makes me laugh to say walls because [Laughter] so one of the defining things i would say is that most people have read that works probably more with people outside the product than the people reading at least in the development uh department i've i spent spend so much time upstream which is what we call you know you know projects uh whatever they are mailing based you know other stuff like that irc for the old people or whatever slack or anything today like most of my life was there and then there was you know the internal part where you can do the stuff but uh yeah so there is this this thing where you know you're not confined just within any wall for the most part you really interact with uh you know not with the community in a developer world maybe other roles are a little i would support your point on uh like not having walls and and this is what i think you recognize very fast in red hat that uh like no one shows you from the outside world and there's no such delegation like i'm doing this thing and someone else will do the talking for me it's like no you're doing recording but you also have to do with talking and you also have to do the explanation and you have to do the interaction because all of that is still on you and you need to own it and you you need to own the topic in in full so you cannot hide from the community interaction it's part of of the you as a role developer to to interact with the community but maybe i can also add some different aspects on this uh like because i joined red hat uh i'm kind of newbie in red hat you can consider this like only three years so uh when i joined red hat the thing i really really realized very uh it was quite different from the companies i worked before is like this independence of a real developer in this uh level of um real developer been designing things around and sometimes it's it's really cool and and you really enjoy that sometimes it can be also hard because uh for example when i work in continuous integration and try to like unify some of the processes there's literally like no way i can come and say like you know people you now do all these things this way because like management said so it doesn't work and it never works and it's just you really need to work with people convince each and every person to uh try this out and to get on on board with this change and so on so sometimes i'm really like it it can be hard you know to to make such um changes but it's also like a very precious thing in red hat with this level of interaction and this level of feedback and we with real development well i think to prove your point uh you just have to answer one question i mean how many communication tools do we have here at red hat and i think the answer is never enough because i mean i have an entire screen on my mac just dedicated to just communication tools just so i can keep touch with all the different teams i thought only i did that yeah i don't know you're not alone before we move on to the next question i did want to get uh i did want to kind of pick up one other thing because you came to red hat through your contributions with fedora uh so i'm i'm kind of curious what what it was like working working elsewhere contributing to fedora and then and then coming to red hat to continue your work with fedora what was that experience like i enjoyed it very much because uh i mean you have a work for the salary and for the money and you had fedora for fun and for hanging out with people which are like-minded for and for doing things you really enjoy and this helped me a lot during my career i actually i think i had a whole like 20 minutes of talking at some of the previous fedora nest conferences just about how fedora helped me to get each of my jobs which i had before red hat and like it was six of them and each of them was did because i had this experience in fedora and the final one also because of that uh the the bad thing is of course that once i joined red hat my hobby and my work really converged that that much but i'm actually struggling to find some other hobby to get this you know switching off context when i actually want to get some rest from the stuff i do so it introduces some problems on that on that part but yeah it's it feels really amazing to be able to work on your hobby in this environment yeah so i can i can definitely relate to that because before coming to red hat i had started working on on podcasts which i'm i'm not shy about plugging on the show so this is this is like the the required one plug for for the pseudo show but uh one thing only yeah but uh i did i kind of stumbled into content creation and podcasting before i came to red hat so like you i i had a number of different jobs before i went from systems administrator to sales to sales at red hat to now i'm in marketing and so now all of those worlds have kind of collided and so i'm i'm working in the real bu i'm doing content creation i'm i'm hosting with with chris every other week and so all of those things have kind of come together and it's great because i'm getting paid to do something i love to do but at the same time it's like okay now my my hobby i've just spent you know nine hours on my hobby what do i do um so if it if it helps i've i recently fell in love with dungeons and dragons about two years ago so i mean if if you're looking for a hobby that's a great one especially if you're if you're creative and you're looking for a different outlet to kind of stretch those those creative muscles i mean i'm actually doing the crochet now you know so just you know something to completely get outside of your computer screen and just like do something with your hands this is very different experience you might be on to something there all my hobbies involve screens all my work involves screens yes it took me only 12 years to find something else maybe i started playing bass recently i love that nice that's definitely an analog experience yep and i quickly moved away from using computer because when i started i plugged into the computer and that's why i'm staring back [Laughter] so shifting gears a little bit how did you how did you both kind of get into the the developer space or the engineering space however you want to look at it did you just kind of stumble into it or was it something that you'd wanted to do from very early on just kind of tell us about that journey a little bit simo you're first again i i wanted to be a pilot then i started wearing glasses and i decided computers were my thing i was maybe 12 13. so it kind of was early on but you know back in my time internet was not the thing and so progress was you know whatever book you could find you know whatever you could buy and then university you know learn this thing called linux learning called internet from there on it was just you know impossible for everything else i started you know working on business project then i started creating mine uh actually i read that allowed me to do a lot a lot more than uh and that even when i started i would you know contribute to the summer project which is uh and still is uh absolutely great project to work on but that allowed me to do you know full time my hobby so i started even more projects there there's the history but yeah i've always been really passionate about computers uh since cool kind of aligns with my experience but yeah classes height that's the only difference there i'm too tall to be a pilot in my case i was actually learning mathematics and i was doing my phd in geometry and topology when i realized that mathematic is probably like it's a very lonely uh job to to do and i realized like i need some point correction and so i tried to find something less nerdy so i switched to i.t from empathetics and for me it was like very very important when i decided that i go outside of academia that i still have this feeling of people doing something for fun and interest and not just for salary and so uh open source community fedora community was a place where i felt like okay it's not mathematics but it at least has this academic feeling about like being interested in doing something nice for the higher purpose and not just being corporate business oriented person so yeah i enjoyed it so much and then i was really happy to find some career puff which led me to this place where i can do it actually as a job so that's that's interesting uh you said you left mathematics because it's kind of a lonely career path but uh development i.t can can be pretty lonely as well did did was your experience different was did you have the kind of interaction and collaboration that you're looking for or was that something you got here yeah i think in fedora and eventually red hat uh yeah i think this is where uh like the the feeling might be different for people who are doing like deep development in one specific area uh but i believe that in 80 you still have you know the possibility to talk more with people around they it's like it's not in any person on the street who will understand what you're doing but at least like not a single person right so in mathematics you really do have like your scientific advisor and maybe two colleagues who understand what you what you're talking about like in in the whole country or the whole world and also in mathematics it's about it's a bit too strict on uh how do you interact with people and i mean in 80 i can go to a conference and present a thing which i really don't know about i mean i want to state a question and i want to engage in the conversation and so on in the mathematics you kind of show your results only when they are done and you don't have this nicer environment where you collaborate where you share more openly it may sound strange but yeah mathematics is kind of felt felt kind of closed for me and open source is where you can really ask people for help and you do things together and this this changes things yeah yeah there's there's a definite culture difference there because um i could see how mathematics would be closed whereas open source kind of celebrates especially with with the onslaught of devops and agile methodologies and all this kind of things that hey here's my thing it's it's not a 1.0 version so you know it's it's half broken but what do you think it's it's kind of celebrated versus versus uh you know kind of shunned well we are never done i like mathematics [Laughter] well i'll i'll have to take your word on that because after after about pre-algebra my understanding of math just kind of plummeted through the floor yeah i'm in that same boat where like the algebra class the one class i needed to take to get a degree like it took me 10 years to finally go ahead and do that in fact it was great for higher mathematics where i kind of i graduated with a bachelor's from devry university and uh what was great is that um they had a higher level math class that was statistics for like statistics for technology or something like that and when i asked what the for technology meant they said yeah we kind of dumbed it down from the general statistics class for all you nerdy people it's like oh great i think i got to be in that class so i i gotta be in the nerdy math class so good job gold star for you eric [Laughter] all right so i'll pick on i'll i'll pick on semo since uh since the questions have been getting deferred to you first so other than other than kind of your day job what projects are you working on or you mentioned upstream so what uh what projects what communities are you heavily involved with i have to say that i'm less involved heavily in upstream communities uh these days than i was until a little while ago uh i've been getting busier i remember somewhat higher level of work uh i'm not i think i have one package still that i own uh but it's uh i own it because there is no work to do and so that's that's easy uh i still have a couple of uh projects of mine very small things around the early stuff like gs api or some host secret stuff very small things very small things that don't take a lot of my time i i had to uh stop working on the big ones because i couldn't follow them well enough to be really useful anymore so i kind of on the sidelines i cheer up i follow the menu list you know maybe once a week i go through a few of them and sometimes i surprise someone with a comment like hey you said nothing for six months how come you know and you come here and say something but uh yeah the extent to which i i can scale uh is limited at this point but i'm still having a ton of uh fun following up on the you know the sidelines if you want um there's still keep tabs on all the projects i've been contributing in the past even though my dad would say anything just like to see what recording happens so that that's a small small things at this point but i'm happy with that i mean the small things are you know i think i can do many meaningful contributions because they're small so whenever i do a patch it's like hey it's a lot of it's a lot if a project gets three patches a month right so for sure it feels more meaningful even though it's a small thing it's awesome how about you uh alexandra i guess right now i'm not doing as much as i wish i would and uh i do have one package to maintain in fedora is it's a game actually it's a mind test game i several years ago i was like into this you know blog building game and so on and but i stopped playing it because i realized that playing it like is the same as participating in open source you just build wrong thing i mean you build from blocks and not from the code but everything else is the same so i kind of switched back to to the real thing i also played with raspberry pi and i have a even library to switch a led light on raspberry pi from fedora like turn on and off with gpio pin and it was some fun experience with even rebuilding the kernel to get some device three stuff in it there so yeah not very many contributions i guess but some some interest in some side projects i mean you're you go from building blocks to building bits but they can blow both blow up your computer so you know there's that yeah uh so what i wanted one of the things that i i'm very passionate about is helping folks that are getting into the industry or are trying to pivot uh because i've been in it for probably close to 15 years now and i i think maybe 15 years ago you could have been a full stack engineer you you could kind of maybe have gotten your hands in a little bit of everything but i think today technology is just so vast there's so many different things and it's so complex that that there's there's no way i mean i've spent a decade on rel and and now i work on the marketing team and i i look at our operating system it's just like uh yeah i can can we break this down a little bit so thankfully we have pods within uh within the marketing bu so i have certain areas of interest that that i focus on but it's just it's so vast uh anyway uh not to not to uh jump on my soapbox so what would you recommend new developers new open source enthusiasts learn what are kind of the things that you deal with or that you want to get involved with or that you think are are coming up that will be important to the industry alexander here to first okay my turn now okay so what's important for the industry or important for rel so if we're talking about work in in distribution of kind of like real distribution then obviously like fedora is the way and you once you get how we understand how fedora works you get the rel experience uh not not full real experience you still will get a bit of surprise how huge rail is but but you get the idea but if we talk about industry i think i i would still suggest to learn um the distribution side of things because you know we we have this controversy about like will containers eat the world or or like will distribution still survive through the future but what i see is like containers the management of containers actually reinvents many concepts which distributions have in finding those familiar concepts in the container world uh at least for me it's like an interesting direction and um it's bringing a bit of an order in the chaotic world of the modern uh development wherever no one understands where this piece of code comes from uh so bringing this connecting those pieces but i guess on the more very generic term i'd say the future is to learn how to use your strengths in that ever-changing idea world so don't don't feel like because you have the skill in this fame and you have no skill in that thing then i t is like closed for you or you're not a real i.t person or something this the key is like to find strengths in your special skills and to find the application nit is so huge right now so there's always an application you just really need to think how to apply what you can do in the current it landscape it is everything now so you will find a way that's awesome and i love how you didn't just list off a bunch of languages or tools that i like how you took that at a at a higher level great because i'm living with we should learn rust no i'm kidding but that's something i'm actually studying recently because i find it very fascinating i'm not though the kind of guy that goes behind you know every single new thing i would say that from my point of view you should really i go through you know kind of a logical process maybe but i think you should decide early on whether you are more of a high level kind of guy or low level kind of guy because they're completely different thing i i tend to like the low level stuff and i kind of don't understand high level very much uh it's just beyond me uh because whenever i look at something i need to go and imagine how it goes all the way down to the pits in the cpu and high level it's just so removed that my mind you know blows so i think that's the very first thing for someone that is looking to start like what you like to do uh from that point of view high level low level then you can complete different directions uh from there and i'm experiencing low level stuff you know all the way down to the kernel looking at the code exactly higher words and in that case i would just say you know find a project that it has you know appeal to you of course because you know i'm never gonna learn anything if you don't like it and just try to understand how it works and i think that's how i started like i was trying to understand how a piece of code worked for real uh partially was because i was trying to do something and it didn't work and it was like okay i really need to figure out how this thing works and then i kind of got lost in the rabbit hole and i don't remember if i ever ever did the thing that i started you know i was looking for i think everyday people put different direction by the end of it but that's the thing you know do something that you that you like and at least that's you know when you start to understand how things work and from there on you'll find you know the right path there will be either a project that you get really passionate about or just a technology without being you know attached to a specific project and you can you know recover experience with that or you know in the end each one has a different path but i i strongly believe that you need to do something that you like doing otherwise uh you know it's harder at least for me it's harder if that will be like something you know there's nothing wrong with just doing a job for money i also think that's uh perfectly fine but in that case your focus will probably be slightly different won't be in the in the technology itself it will be something else and so that was probably something you should decide earlier whether you like you know i love you know coding you know for coding sake or if for you it's just a step installed to something else some people are very excited you know dealing with the management of the project or the product you know i know people that are really amazing in that area you know they exist and they and they help there um you know just figure it out but i think by you know if you look at some specific attack and you start you know looking deeply into them you'll figure out what you like that's really amazing um so one thing that you both mentioned was the ability to kind of pivot and i cannot stress how important that is um because being here live streaming with chris talking about red hat talking about rel um is kind of the epitome of a career shift because i i spent years as a systems administrator and i spent years trying to be the deep low level not not uh not career-wise but technology-wise being deep in the code understanding every piece of the operating system and network and that's just that's not me where where the high level stuff kind of makes your eyes glaze over that's where i live is i like to see the high level picture and it took me probably about eight years of my career so i mean i was close to 30. if you think about college and eight years in in the career field before i realized i'm a generalist and you know what that's okay it's not a problem it's it's actually a strength and so it took me a few years to to pivot to from from systems administration systems engineering to to sales and now to marketing and i feel like i've finally come home so take it take it from me and in my years of experience in in the field you have to pivot and you have to follow what would excite you because otherwise you're you're dealing with stress you're dealing with burnout and if you don't like what you do i'm i'm sorry i'm not financially driven so there's if i hate what i'm doing there is no amount of money that's going to make that better sometimes me meet people who like come and say oh what do i need to do to become a cis admin and i'm like you know sis admin is a profession return which we use maybe for next three years or five years do you really want to bet right now that like this profession if this job will survive for next 50 60 years and you want to plan just one direction you probably want to try it and like get some experience but it's not who you are right you you are yourself you you can work as a system administrator you're not limited to this work you you can like explore new areas different approaches you can invent your own role and you will find a place to focus yeah the the the career field is definitely not limited in fact i think it might have been one of my college math teachers that told me that i'm not going to do well in technology because my math skills just weren't weren't big enough i mean i'll let the results speak for themselves but well at least you had a math teacher that told you that i did not now they were probably right about becoming a developer because i i took a vb basic class and then a c-sharp class and was just like nope and then literally looked across the hall and there was a networking lab i was like what what classes do i have to sign up for to go play over there they're like oh yeah we've got this this degree field about uh um i see uh sorry i chad distracted me um it's like oh yeah we've we've got this degree path uh called network communications management and you you deal with servers and you deal with switches and you get to plug in cables and you get to build stuff it's like sign me up for that um so uh so christian why don't you uh why don't you expand on that a little bit uh you say you don't see a lot of love for for systems administrators oh well that that's good because i i think i know where christian's coming from and and i'd love for for all of us to address that um i mean i am a solutions architect now but deep inside i still think like asus 7 yeah i think we all do to an extent right like i flip that switch on and off now though where um you know before it was all i did right like was just just admit now it's like all right i got a sysadmin this thing i forgot to marketing that thing i've got to open source this thing got to document that you know like all these skills have built up over time to where it's like i can think like different people and sometimes that's just admin thinking is great sometimes it doesn't work too so you got my wife right like [Laughter] my spouse has no idea what the hell i do like technically but she knows that there's lights and there's a camera involved and that kind of thing right like but what she doesn't realize is that we know there's things happening right you know we're working on things on us however downstairs or we're you know on a lab and you know there's there's technical pieces to all of our jobs but there's also non-technical pieces to all of our jobs as well and that requires that that human knowledge where you know humans don't act like computers and you have to think you know with a different hat on essentially yeah like i tell people i wear many hats at red hat yeah it's i don't think it's a lack of love for systems administrators it's i i used to be one i spent a lot of years as as a sysadmin and there's a lot of parts of of that type of role that i enjoyed but in the end it just it wasn't what i was what i was driven to do this is more my thing and in fact the the systems administration work that i do nowadays is amazing i get to basically write a lab this is how you would do a thing if you're like we did convert to real we did in place upgrades i i wrote uh pretty much all the commands based on documentation on other people's experiences on this is the easiest way to do this thing we want to convert from rel seven to rel eight this is the easiest way to do it does this fix all of your problems does this take care of every use use case no but this this covers 80 and that's that's where i shine and what was great was we we did the demo it sort of worked it it worked on my machine when we were off air minor detail but uh uh but then i got to move on and i got to start prepping for the next show so it's not it's not the sys admin is a bad title and and i do agree that in the industry sysadmins have gotten a bad rap and i i don't think that that's i don't think that's deserved at all it's a market dynamic i don't understand um and i think segments have become something i also yeah go ahead sorry i actually worked as a sysadmin too so don't don't feel like i'm like attacking the profession uh what i i meant more of like a the term itself it has some uh some weight of some burden of the stereotype attached to it at this moment so i i feel like it's it's not the work itself but it's some impression it created and it pulls down sometimes and this is why it's evolving so it's not disappearing definitely it's just it gets renamed it gets uh introduced in some different way and so on uh i'm i wouldn't like say that we should get rid of this admins no but it's definitely no it's it's it's it's a valid work but uh it gets some evolution to to get away from that you know stereotypical system who is not interested in anything and just like doesn't actually do anything and just waits for his pro system to work it's not the good kind of scissors mean and we're like getting involved evolving over over it into some areas where you actually have interest in some development of your systems and some evolution of your products and so on so uh yeah it's it it's the evolution happens so you don't my point was like don't attach yourself to one specific title if title evolves you can evolve to you can choose different areas and you can find more interesting things as or maybe around you yeah don't close your eyes on fun that i also started this is that with profession i was doing stuff on 364 for people that still know what that is but today i would call myself myself a site reliability engineer and i'm not a star anymore right well and and i think that's i think that's a perfect example because if you trace the history of sysadmins back far enough you end up with electrical engineers and so i mean none of i i couldn't i couldn't wire a circuit i couldn't i couldn't work on a circuit board i don't know i don't want to do that anymore that's just that's not part of of my job and i just i know that if i plug this thing into this box and push this button that if everything's working correctly then lights come on and discs spin up and that kind of thing so i don't have to do the electrical engineering part but that's not something we think about as a sysadmin and and to simo's points in a decade from now there may not the term may fall out of regular use and it could be site reliability engineer it could be devops engineer could be cloud architect um in fact engineer yeah exactly right yeah so it's i don't think i mean all all four of us were sys admins at one point um the term is someone has to care for those computers right right so it doesn't matter what so christian says that the term is considered the low-level entry job my suggestions is that it should be changed to something else because today sysadmin are more like sysops and not just admins that's a great point um right yeah that's so and i've seen different i've seen different cultures different companies address this different ways there was there's sys admin systems engineer systems architect kind of in a tiered position i've seen companies break it out to where you're assist admin 3 then you get promoted to says admin 2 says admin 1. so it's i mean it means something different to different folks sorry to pick on your christian but uh no we're not i i think it i think you've raised a very valid point i do i think you do too because you know the last quote cis admin i hired was actually a junior role we needed a junior sys admin right that we could teach and kind of mold um you know take your deep linux knowledge apply that but also now we're going to add on to that and we were a quote devops team so you know we need we had a need for a junior we had a need for a lot of seniors but there's plenty of gray in between here and there you know that has to get filled in as well and i think um you know whether it's a low-level term or not they're still the same thing right like to an extent an sre is a sysadmin to an extent a devops engineer is a cis admin they just might know a little bit more about networking or something that effect let's see chris did you and i've kind of i feel like i've kind of dominated the conversation do you have any any questions for for our guests i guess like what is the thing that drives you to get up and work on rail every morning right like you you roll out of bed you fall on the floor and what's that experience tell me it's it's got to be all it's got to be all the video conferences all the meetings i bet that's what drives them [Laughter] i think we can all share the hatred of meetings yes for me it's actually really really interesting to see a very huge infrastructure very huge company and to find you know the logic inside this this whole mess and which which if you look from from a bit afar you're like this is complete chaos you cannot understand it and then you start to dig in and you start to find you know connections and logic and this is why it happened this is what what brings it and then you start to untangle things and this untangling things is really my passion i i like to understand it and to explain to others what i understood this is the thing which i really enjoyed explaining to people what i understood people sometimes hate me for that but but i do that all the time and i i really like that that part of the job nice feels like alexandra is into debugging the organization i'm more on the programming part of it i guess it's uh i'm as a as a team being a pro where i i have to interact with a lot of people on the team i like helping out you know more junior people might be figuring out what's the next thing how you know how to do things but also there's a lot of part of my job is connection with other people uh within the organization uh within rel or maybe sometimes also outside of rail so there's a lot of uh hello is basically enabling other people to do their job i would say at this point uh that's my probably major contribution and that's what i kind of like doing at this time in my career um sometimes it's frustrating sometimes it's uh satisfying because you can see the fruits of you know all the organizational work you try to do just like everything so it's more of the programming of the work so well well uh well you're well you're making connections and and kind of engaging different resources and while alexandra's uh kind of untangling the mess of of code for this this project or that project it's it's i get the pleasure of going out learning what you all are doing looking at the upcoming features and then figuring out then then to christian's point i get to put on my sis admin hat and go oh this would be great because i remember this time where i had this problem yeah so now this feature could have fixed this problem with like three commands or system role or something and then it's now my job it's now my my pleasure to then go out and tell tell our our sales folks tell uh tell the community to tell the audience at this show hey this this feature is coming it's it'll help you fix problems like this so that's that's where i that's where i really activate that's where i get excited so let's kind of let's kind of uh let's kind of bring that uh that that process to the forefront is there is there something cool coming out with with rel is there something cool you guys are working on um that uh that you'd love to to share with folks i'll pick on you yeah i was waiting for that i guess it depends what you think it's cool don't violate any state secretary no no no no i'm not all i'm gonna say is public and if it's not a movie so uh my phone will be ringing in two minutes yeah so i think um in my side it's uh it's really kind of niche like cryptography you know that kind of stuff it's uh it's also very obscure from time to time uh if if you look at their stable rail light relate we did work on a few system roles that you mentioned very recently that are coming out in something came out in either four already at some point eight or five that was a that was a interesting stuff i kind of like ansible because it allows you to do so many things with a somewhat easier way and more you know organic approach so i think that's a nice stuff but the stuff i'm looking for is a round nine we are bringing open cell three there and you know it might not sound exciting but it was a crap ton of work yeah yeah it required extraordinary forcing coordination and uh fun fact it's one of the rare cases where we had to work on well before that before fedora and the only reason is that rally is smaller than fedora less packages like it's in that sense it has less packages and that means less dependencies over the cell so there are thousands literally thousands of packages this somewhere pulling up and sell but thousands is better than ten thousand so it was easier to do it why also because we knew the process was going to take it took us basically a year and a half since we started and maybe two years since the first time you started you know really thinking about it and infinite time that's like four week this is three releases and it would have been really really disruptive and although yes you can throw bad stuff you go higher from time to time you don't want to break the statement releases so it was a very interesting experience i didn't do most of it of course other people in my team did it but it is uh organizationally and the sheer amount of work to bring that thing into the composes into the built rooms and you know fixing all the dependencies and you know explaining or helping people out that was a that was a great experience i think it would be a very interesting one when it comes out so i think that's exciting for me i don't know how exciting for other people because well i mean to give you an idea of the scale which you were working with i just pulled from the blog post the ssl 3 release post three years of development work 17 alpha releases two beta releases 7 500 commits from over 350 different authors that's a lot of work and doing any amount of that was not trivial right no it was really uh a huge negative especially because it it's not a normal release uh in the sense that it's not just incremental there was a change in the in the architecture of the ssl with the internal architecture that has repercussions you know [Music] not so much likely to more modern applications but there were changes to be made approachable it's not like something that you have to rewrite or your support it's not a different library but [Music] when you talk integration at the level of the distribution if you change a single function you're gonna break a dozen or more packages by just just by changing semantics let that on a change in the signature of the function or anything like that so it is a challenging uh it was a challenge and it was really satisfying to go through it and see that we made it through at this point there and there's nothing secret if you look at center's string you'll find it there and you'll find all the packages we have there build against it so it works at least we hope i think it works but um yeah i was a pleasing enabler i think will be a nice thing uh technically uh for my so that's what i'm excited about yeah that's that's really cool and don't don't don't discount the work you're doing because i mean just this morning i think i had two or three articles hit my rss reader about more crypto attacks and more ransomware i mean it's it's out there and and the the work that that's getting done with openssl everything around secure supply chain network-bound disk encryption i mean i could list off six different things that are top of mind right now for not just red hat but our upstream projects for the government for people worldwide i mean it's it's it's no small task and i mean yeah three years and 7 500 commits that's that's a lot that's that's a lot and alexandra your your turn what are you excited about i was uh involved in uh round nine bootstrap activities so i kind of very excited that round nine is heading to the release and i'm kind of yeah not shy to put my label on this prelim release this is what i've done of course it's like a work of entire real engineering but but it's nice to see like the release coming and prepared and being released and while we were trying to to package this initial amount of fedora content into real nine and of course uh during this time we created the center streamline and i'm absolutely excited that royal development is now uh happening in public and that public can see can participate in one of the future common features is that public can actually vet changes in central stream via third party testing so for example even downstream rebuilds like alma or like anyone can basically implement uh certain test suites and tests and to stream changes and uh this will be included in the consideration so extending this uh community contribution uh collaboration with the community this is what i'm totally excited about that's really great yeah and uh i've i'm really excited by by what you're saying because i've been neck deep in rel 8.5 and uh nano beta activities the last few weeks so getting ready for the the big uh announcements coming up in november so that's i'm really excited and this it'll it'll be great to see the the new development life cycle from fedora to centos stream to real nine uh in place because like you said uh more people can get involved and bringing kind of the resources of fedora centos and and rel together uh to just make a an even more secure and performant operating system so there's so many cool things going uh we'll have to have you both on to to talk about that kind of post release uh because real night's gonna be great there's there's some great stuff coming in fact if you would like uh putting my host hat back on if you'd like uh you can go to redhat.com try rel try r-h-e-l and you can uh you can download copies of rel and i believe that also includes uh beta entitlements now so if you go and try out rel you can try out not only the current release but also the uh releases to come uh before we wrap up is there any uh any any any place either of you would like to send folks i would say go and try synthesis uh mainstream cool yeah yep centers dream and uh fedora of course we welcome everyone in fedora got a couple of fedora servers here and my workstation runs fedora 34 so although a couple of my a couple of my more uh crazy friends are already running the uh release candidate for 35. it's like yeah i'm i'm glad that you can you can do that but i do live streaming and podcasting and i need some degree of reliability yeah and and this this this next time i've told myself i'm going to wait 48 hours before i upgrade just to be safe i'm usually like the day of like 11 a.m i'm i'm on to a day i'm still [Laughter] i'm also holding philanthropic thinking the last few years was like so good their experience is just painless i remember the time where when i had to do stuff and i liked it there was stuff whenever an upgrade happen like by going over the machine doesn't move that's rpm that she is a package that breaks everything yeah yeah i mean my workstation in fact i think started on 30 maybe 31 but i've done in-place upgrades all the way up to 34 and the only thing i ran into issues with this last time go figure uh audio uh i had to uninstall the the audio stack and reinstall it just something about the switch some of the changes around pipe wire and having been around for my my individual instance being around for a while i think i ran into into some kind of an issue but just did a yum reinstall on on a few of the packages and no problems it works like a champ and that's in place upgrades so that's that's uh that's great news for fedora and and all that stuff works its way down into uh into rel in fact uh my our in-place upgrade show a few weeks ago notwithstanding i'm pretty sure my favorite goes back to at least 18 if not before the specific not this machine my other my personal mission of course the work machine gets refreshed every three years so i know somebody who who had a long time uh system that uh they'd had going since like the early fedora 20s and they they were so proud that they've kept it going that long that they end up virtualizing it throwing it on their home lab server just so they can continue to do in-place upgrades on it even though even though the hardware is long since retired so my hardware changes changed at least three times already and just yeah yeah same here and just image to the new ssd or whatever it is and it keeps leaving yep all right well thank you both so very much i i know it's crazy time of the year to have you guys on but i really appreciate you you given an hour of your time to to come and chat with us chat with us all and uh and share your experiences this is this has been a great conversation agreed pleasure thank you all right all right definitely head on out to uh red.ht free underscore rel to give rel a try and just and to see what uh see what our folks have been working on and other than that chris i will see you in a couple of weeks yeah another thursday episode and then we'll be back on our wednesday schedule sounds good next up get ups guide to the galaxy folks join us in a few seconds you

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Id: 2GAdvIkjgFg

Length: 63min 5sec (3785 seconds)

Published: Thu Sep 23 2021