KBE Insider (E4): Maciej Szulik

[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] do [Music] so [Music] freedom [Music] good morning good afternoon good evening wherever you're hailing from welcome back to another kbe insider show i am chris short host with the most of this thing we call red hat live streaming i'm joined by a special guest host today steve speicher as well as our special guest machek shulik uh but you know and machek is a great contributor to the community i lost the page with all his descriptions all of a sudden the tabs which are rooney uh hang on he we're gonna talk to machek today about you know being a software engineer at red hat obviously but also about what it's like being a double sig lead in his work on the kubernetes cli and controllers but first the news mina take it away welcome back by the way thank you hi good morning everyone i'm gonna talk about some highlights here as i do on on all episodes except i guess gordon did a really really good job last uh last month so i do have a lot to uphold um but security has been um a big issue i think with kubernetes in the last couple of months um and one of the a couple of the articles that i want to highlight um there's a new tool that wants to save open source from uh supply chain attacks sig store will make a code signing free and easy for software developers providing an important first line of defense this is i think a really really good uh first step in in in you know defending those attacks and then there's a nsa cisa kubernetes hardening guidance which also uh identifies the common areas of kubernetes security risk says supply chain malicious actors and insider threats it aims to educate engineers to avoid common misconfiguration issues and safeguard applications the guidance suggests that supply chain risks are hard to mitigate and can emerge in the container building cycle or infrastructure provisioning especially in cloud environments and then we have helga labas coming in talking about how to secure kubernetes as it becomes mainstream this is an actually an interview with the ceo of arma who talks about securing kubernetes systems what makes them susceptible to cyber attacks and what should organizations expect when deploying them he answers you know attackers are looking for targets and how do they choose their targets by a combination of key parameters the value of the target and how easy it is to attack it so after talking about this stuff obviously we need to have a way of knowing if our kubernetes network security strategy is solid um and then i think there are four critical questions that must be asked to understand where these vulnerabilities persist and where steps need to be taken to ensure adequate protection within your container network so before you decide anything ask these five questions to yourself does your network inspection achieve complete visibility what isn't protected by your security deployment or service mesh what are the limitations of your existing web application firewall protection are you addressing security drift and how fast can your kubernetes security mitigate threats um again very very important theme in the world of kubernetes now i will drop in the links for uh for the for these specific uh opinion pieces and um and news articles that i've uh addressed right now and then going in um what are the main drivers and challenges of container technology today uh obviously security being one of the main challenges um they're related to the application container technology uh they limit it's its adoption uh there's a lack of internal alignment and experience in kubernetes management um that are also named among the key barriers to adoption main drivers are increasing number of enterprises are opting in for the powerful deployment options and visibility over complex deployments efficient distribution of workflows across clusters resources and accelerated software delivery powered by kubernetes but despite the challenges uh the idea of a simplified and automated service delivery continues to drive uh the deployment of kubernetes across across the world um then uh we wanna highlight the five devsecop devsecops open source projects um again you can go in and look at this article to learn more about these projects but uh teams that embrace the devsecops approach make security an integral part of the entire application lifecycle and these specific open source projects aim to help that uh claire six door cube linter open policy agent and gatekeeper and falco uh so i will again drop all of these links into the chat feel free to go and check those out come back to kubernetes uh kbe news page every week uh we have great articles coming up today as well uh and giving it back to you chris and steve thank you mina awesome and yes security has been a huge issue lately um my check take it easy mina um machek who is your daddy and what do you do that will depend on the context and everything around it but i we i think we can figure it out eventually over the course of the rest of the meeting so your software engineer here at red hat colleague of two cigs sounds like you're like me you wear mini hats at red hat and yeah that's true an interesting challenge um it is uh let's start that i was a sixth cli lead for almost four years now and i said was because last week i officially stepped down from the 6th july chair role in 6th july we have a division of what a chair does and what a tech lead does so theoretically all of us are uh wearing both hats but over time when we want to appreciate someone else or i will be slowly stepping down but i want to help with the technical side of things i'm giving away the organizational hat and will take care of the technical stuff especially that i have a lot of knowledge that uh most importantly historical knowledge uh and decision that we that we did over the past years and i know that uh the other chairs and tech leads were asking me to be around to help them because that historical knowledge is sometimes helpful uh for resolving conflicts and situations which are basically on a daily basis so that's that matters yeah the context why we did this this way or the other way in the past have we tried to look into this or something else and yes we usually have but the decision from the past was that because there are those other stuff that might interact uh we have to make this hard decision of doing this or uh or differently so this definitely saves a lot of time when uh i can when i can look it up in my head somehow i don't know how i managed to uh to to keep a hold of this many information but somehow i do um that but i think it has to make people yeah yeah how many people are usually interacting with in that 6 0i kind of like this uh 6 july varies um but i think it'll be somewhere between 10 and 20 people that are constantly on our uh well currently we have this many meetings that we are meeting every week because there's the official six cli meeting is every other week and that's um that's in the other weeks we are doing box crops and just recently katrina started doing customized box crops so no matter what wednesday there's usually a six july meeting whether that will be box crop or customized crop or a regular meeting it's all in the calendar so you should be good good on top of that you also do work in sig apps too so as part of your community participation right so i was part of the sig apps basically since the initial days when i started working on cube because my my initials to my original story with kubernetes started with jobs uh well at the time it was called actually schedule a job so that was the idea of adding something like crons in linux if you're familiar with linux systems you know that there is an ability to schedule some tasks at any given point in time initially that was called scheduler jobs over time it was renamed to cron jobs and that was the original idea during the initial discussions we divided that into jobs and cron jobs so this is how we uh how my story i think that was around 2016. 2017. very early on yeah yeah that was very early on in barely a couple months after i joined red hat if i remember correctly but since then i was jumping the train in couple of places and if you look at my contributions and i i don't know what i was doing but i was looking for something and i was looking for what i did what i touched i touched very different uh places in the cube ecosystem and even though on a daily basis uh the team that i'm leading at red hat is overlooking both six july sig apps and also it's like scheduling but thankfully i have amazing folks working with me that are uh handling the six scheduling i don't have to do it because my mind would blow what i would have to look at the third sig but even still i'm also participating in sig api machinery and trying to to look into what they are uh cooking both from seagap's perspective because controllers are interacting with api one way or the other a lot of primitives that makes the api machinery is working on is being used heavily in both sick apps and sex cli so it's somehow natural to me to also follow along with those folks interesting so hello out there everybody in the audience just wanna make sure we get hello i was just gonna jump in you mentioned like you're starting the kubernetes and it's not like part of it was your your role in red hat i don't know if you can talk a little bit more about how that kind of started well that was an interesting uh turn of events uh i was basically invited to a conference that was happening in southern poland pretty close by where i was living in a very small uh city uh nearby and a friend of mine asked me oh there's an open source days happening in biansko biawa uh that was like seven years ago in march if i remember correctly and i was like oh yeah i i promised to go with you on a conference a couple uh months before and but i couldn't make it so oh yeah i'll join uh also there was a time when um i was a couple months after switching my previous previous job to the current one at the time and i was like very disappointed by the pick that i did like literally after a week of working there i was like yeah that's not the place that i want to be in well it happens and i went to the open source days and i've met my wonderful friends and coworkers until today uh uh volta who's uh currently in charge of hr in czech republic and mikhail vertig and me how is a staff engineer in openshift until this day and he was my team lead for a very very long time and i consider him and my friend so and we started chatting and it was like oh it would be so cool to be able to work with you uh there was one little myth at the time is that openshift back then that was seven years ago was at the version two that was written in ruby and i'm being titanista i was like yeah that's not my game so i applied for two positions actually one was for openstack and other one was for openshift and because of being and having my heart with python i cared more about the open stack role more than the uh the open shift uh it turns out that uh i didn't get the openstack because i was missing some addition a proper virtual machine knowledge but i got the uh openshift role soon after uh openshift started working on v3 and we switched from ruby to go and i was like oh yeah that's fine because i work with java before i work with c so switching from uh from ruby over to go was pretty uh was pretty exciting for me actually and that's how i landed over at red hat i did touch the ruby codes for quite a while um i think i was one of the last person that was still maintaining v2 i think folks that were joining red hat after me did not maintain the v2 already because they were already jumping into v3 and go based solution so how was it shift that you uh that have happened out uh worked out for you i mean you worked out for the team overall um so it's great to hear um the one thing that i think is an interesting story hearing folks like you work upstream so much to the community is that there's a lot of pieces there that are kind of hard to pull together but at the same time you're managing delivering uh i won't call it downstream but you know a thing that's taking those bits from the upstream and then downstream china products i'm dealing with the hass releases so you're working with many versions of cube or cube c cubes cuddle cube ctl whatever you want to call it right and and have to deal with those challenges so i'd be kind of interested to hear your story there what that's like dealing with not only the community parts but now you're kind of in some ways going back and pouring forward like all the different challenges or ways of working day to day okay so before i jump into that one uh let me straight up one thing about the cube cuddle cube ctl whichever um i'm gonna use both interchangeably i love it uh although although a couple years back uh if you are familiar cube cuddle had a has a logo and we struggled with it and talking with phil and sean at the time uh who were leading six cli uh well are still until today we figure out that maybe uh something like cuddle fish for cube cuddle which is cuddling the cube logo uh if you haven't uh checked the logo if you go to kubernetes keep cuddle on github you'll see the our logo proudly presented on the front page uh but both names even though we went with the cuddle uh both names are perfectly okay and i've seen lots of questions debits uh and it's actually something that we we are being asked almost uh every single time when we're talking about six eli during kubecons for the past three four years i would say and now going back to your original question i must admit that the fact that cube decided to switch from four to three releases a year was a significant improvement from my point of view because if you're thinking about just cube you're thinking about past four releases currently three releases but for me as you said that means double the digit so it was eight releases a year or six releases currently because for me uh my life cycle looks like this i'm done with let's say kubernetes 122 which was released a couple weeks back and i'm jumping immediately into into openshift four point uh wherever 4.9 which will be which is based on uh on kubernetes 122 and that will be released in a short while and then immediately i need to jump on the track and start working on 123 already and we will be slowly preparing for another version of openshift so we're constantly between a feature freeze i'm literally chasing every single date whether that's cube feature freeze or open to a future freeze whether that's cube code freeze or openshift code freeze and jumping with those dates is challenging at times and it sometimes is overwhelming but thankfully i have an amazing team both upstream in six cli as well in the sig apps um that does a lot of the work and can help me with pretty much delivering any uh and any single feature whether that's downstream or upstream so backing up a little bit further you know when did you get your start in like open source like how did you discover open source software in general yeah so with open source the story goes back to python um and all the way back to my to my university years like 20 years ago or something along those lines um i took a class on python and i was like yeah well ma not sure if that's something for me a couple months went by and i had an internship and during the internship i got to work with python heavily and that's where where where i fell in love with python and over the years i figured out well uh the community here and with the specifically the python community was delivering was providing me with this amazing tool for free so i figure out that i want to give back something and my initial contributions were to python itself uh i think i did a couple prs to python itself specifically imap and um smtp libraries uh over time also helped with box python work which is the bug tracker for python and that's uh i think that that was the initial uh story where i started with open source i was doing uh as much as i could in my free time and i'm trying still to be active in python although life work and everything else is not always in line with with my willingness to work on python stuff cool it's interesting you said that you get to play it much with python these days or it's once in a while i wouldn't say that uh i don't have a time i every single time i'm working on something simple that i want to scrape data or somehow analyze the data i'm going to reach out for python every single time that i'm i'm doing something like that over the past years whenever i was preparing some kind of a demo for openshift or presenting some ideas i was always preparing a an application and that application always reuse python under the covers just because i wanted to give it a try uh in the past in the early days when we started shipping v3 i was also involved in source to image which is the build technology for for openshift and i was the primary owner for for the python builder i kick off that one so i've always tried to use whatever i built and make sure that uh the experience that i'm feeling is actually legit and whether i should improve something and make it better or whether it the ux simply to say is is reasonable for uh for a regular user so source to image i think fondly called s2i i'm dropping a link to that in chat if you're not familiar with it folks the one thing that i know if you want to maybe jump back into kind of the what's happening in the cli space around kubernetes and sig cli i don't know if you want to spend a little time about you know talk about the plug-in model like exploration around crew and then kind of integration with customize and any plug-in ecosystem kind of throwing a broad statement there sort of like cli topics so kind of curious right so 6cli itself we have actually three main sub projects that we are overlooking uh you did mention customize and i i also mentioned earlier today that we are doing box crops and one box crop is actually tomorrow uh it's around 6 p.m central european time and it's around noon eastern time 9 a.m pacific uh where we'll be going through customized box we have a very talented uh group of people who is working on customize and pushing this forward listening to what the customers and users want to have added there are cases where we are trying to simplify a lot of stuff for customize because uh it was a problem for some time where customize moved forward and before that we decided that we want to ship uh cube ctl with customize embedded and the fact that customize went so far in with features and capabilities we were left in cube cuddle with a pretty old customize and the dependencies unfortunately made the problem even harder for us to upgrade so we had to refactor a little bit of customize to to be able to update the version and jeff did an amazing job here and worked tirelessly to bring the necessary changes into customize and then update the customize in in cube cuddle so that's on that end on the next project crew and the entire plug-in model so that was basically in line with what the majority of cube was doing so cube decided that the core would be pretty much closed and we would open up a lot of places however you can inject or add additional capabilities cubecado wasn't different we look at other tools namely git and other binaries how they implement their own plug-in models and we came up with the current plug-in implementation that your uh plug-in it has to just have it just have to have a prefix of cube cdl and that will make it a plug-in to cube cuddle out of that um acmet and friends figure out that it would be nice to have something to manage the plugins for uh for cube cuddle that's how the crew started it thing and it's pretty popular and we're very happy to have crew on board and lastly which is a pretty new addition to this sexy like sub project is koi it's a project initially started by ibm and driven by nick especially which is a gui approach to kind of like a wrapper to cube cto it has a much richer uh capabilities of presenting the output of the cube cutout commands um so it's like a combination it's not like a web console but it's definitely a much richer cupcattle wrapper than if you would use a normal cucudo it has a live preview of let's say if you start watching pods and it allows a little bit more freedom around sorting and formatting the the output of the cube title commands so there are pretty interesting stuff and lastly because uh you did mention the plugins during the uh the work that we did on plugins we extracted a library called cli runtimes and that exists on github other kubernetes where we are providing authors of the plugins with a lot of the primitives for printing data for reading configuration etc so that you don't first of all you can be your output your way of doing stuff is similar to what kubeconos does by default but it also deals a lot of for a lot of the stuff for you so you don't have to write anything from scratch when you want to i don't know pars cube config for example do you have uh is there a place listing uh kind of common or popular plugins that exist um i mean i'm on the crew website right now there's 154 plugins i'm not sure i think there was or uh i remember work function but okay you can see you have your own number of stars i'll drop it in the chat i i guess do you have any a favorite or one you use often or when you want to plug um my favorite i would probably call out to debug uh which was which originally started as a plug-in but we're currently in a process of uh pulling debug into the as a default command in cube cuddle it's it's rather lengthy process if you're a plug-in it's obviously in you can have a little bit faster iteration of your releases if you're in a in a core the process is you just you basically have to follow what cube does but on on the other hand uh what is something that we're we've been working for i would probably say three years maybe even four years is we're trying to simplify the cube cuddle code so that we can move the entire cube color code to a separate repository even though that if you start if you check out github you'll notice that kubernetes slash tube ctl exists as a separate repository it's actually not a repository where the entire development is happening on a daily basis uh grenadine says a notion of staging repos so if you look under main kubernetes kubernetes repository there is a staging directory and if you uh drill down you'll notice that there is a cube cuddle directory that means we are publishing the contents of that direct directory into a separate repo the goal for that was that we can and we ensure that the libraries that are used within the staging repo are not using any of the dependencies from the main kubernetes kubernetes repo and that eventually we will be [Music] will be publishing from entirely new repo we're currently discussing how to uh how to do it because it's a lot of challenges are still ahead of us for how to release because if you look at how cube currently releases it is basically publishing all of the artifacts from a single repo uh i was talking with sig release i think that was last week or two weeks ago about us wanting to publish cube cuddle code or basically cube cuddle artifacts from a separate repo it will take a little bit of time still but we're hoping that within a couple next releases two three maybe we will be able to to publish from a separate repo as soon as we reach that point where we have a separate repo we will return to the discussion of maybe shipping cube cuddle faster uh than uh cube uh then cube itself is because that was one of the goal if we move to separate repo we will try eventually cut the cord for releasing obviously there are some challenges coming from that because currently we are required to support plus minus one version which is the default policy for all of cube if we start for example publishing cube ctl every month that means we need to make sure that the support matrix is not plus -1 but we will be supporting about four or five releases back and forth uh so there's a lot of maybe not necessarily code change is required but there's a lot of uh discussion that needs to happen around processes mostly how to proceed with this approach so there's a lot of work around that but we're very hopeful with with regards to that sounds very promising um and you're kind of curious uh you know like a lot of work that's going on in there so appreciate it from you and all the your team and the community members that are doing it um i was kind of curious as i think about like if i was a plug-in if i wanted to develop a plug-in like either you know how would i look at what's available and i think we talked about that and and talk about what do i do to get started you talked about this this sdk that's available uh i didn't know any other tools or recommendations you might have for them especially in light of this making sure it works across multiple versions of whatever it's interacting with on the cube and back end yeah right so we also thought about that one um and there are a couple resources available uh first of all a shameless plug uh with huan uh we did a presentation during one of the past cube cons about how uh what it takes to write a plugin if you search with my name and 6 july i'm pretty sure that you should be able to find it i think that might have been either seattle or around that time um additionally within the main kubernetes again staging repo we are publishing a uh a repo that has a sample cli plugin and if i remember correctly the repo is literally called sample cli plugin uh similarly to how uh there is one for sample controller and i think maybe even a simple api server there is one so if you go to github slash kubernetes sample cli plugin it's a very minimal plugin that allows you to switch namespaces uh permanently uh but most importantly it shows how to write a plugin and how to reuse the libraries that we are shipping the cli runtimes i mentioned before how to build on top of kubernetes api kubernetes client go to achieve the necessary uh stuff to build your simple plugin i'm dropping a link to that right now in chat for you make sense um thanks um i guess um i was just thinking through some of the other pieces of of the seal you mentioned um customize or anything you see kind of coming down the road as other cli integrations people are or kind of core features that people are trying to work their way in as far as or subproject that's an interesting question uh honestly i haven't seen anything new in that territory although at the same time with this many duties that i'm dealing with and prs and approvals and whatnot both upstream and downstream i'm not very closely following um the area of either cli or controllers and it's always takes me well sometimes it takes me by surprise uh but if people are showing up either for sig apps or 60 like with something new uh then yes uh i will be aware but nothing like that uh showed up sounds like a pretty full pretty full plate there so yeah the plug-in model really allows for uh allows for anything to happen at this point too so that's yes that's true sounds like that's the right thing out there so uh curious a bit more uh oh you talked a little bit about your involvement in sig apps early days as far as jobs and i know kind of recently um become the co-lead of of sig apps so i don't know if we'll talk a little bit about what's what's going on kind of the key things and stick apps these days um right so yeah a lot of the uh so equally as with 6 eli where there's a lot of moving pieces uh going on there's a lot happening in the sega apps area as well um most importantly we're trying to align some of the controllers by adding the capabilities that were previously available in other controllers for example the ability to say oh during a rollout i want to have this many parts unavailable uh which is something that we had since always in deployments or daemon sets we're currently adding similar capability to stateful sets so that before stateful says we're always going one by one pod now you will be able to pass a little bit of greater unavailability rates so for example you you will be able to move faster with your uh with your upgrade there are other uh issues that we're overlooking uh from segap's point of view as well the biggest one that we're that we're looking at in the very long term is we're trying to unify the statuses of all the controllers if you've ever looked at the controllers you need to know how to read properly deployment status separately stateful set status separately job or cron job or any other controller there is literally close to zero common interface between those uh the reason for that is because each of those controllers were written by a by a completely different person uh so everyone had a different opinion how the status should look like the biggest downside of that is if you're building tools on top of the controllers you have to write a logic that will know oh i'm dealing with a deployment this is how i should interpret the status if i'm dealing with a stateful set uh well the logic has to be different so we're trying to figure out a way how to combine the current statuses in all the controllers and make them somehow unified so that you will be able to just write one uh one implementation and that will have the necessary information whether your workload is just starting or it's progressing whether it it is done or it's like running and that will depend there are various uh different cases because if you think about it uh most of the workload controller so stateful set deployments daemon sets their end state is that they are running but if you look at for example the batch workloads where you just run a task and the task has an end their state will be a completed so we need to figure out those common statuses somehow and present them in a unified way to users so we're slowly working on um on an enhancement for kubernetes where we will try to combine those statuses and then eventually slowly over time we will be implementing i'm positive that during the implementation phase even though we're already spending a couple of weeks or even months looking at the statuses and trying to figure out with something reasonable i'm positive that as soon as we start implementing those uh additional edge cases will pop up and we'll have to modify the initial uh uh requirements that we put uh ourselves yeah that sounds like a pretty uh pretty decent task and i've run into this multiple times we're trying to build experiences around extensions and trying to get the status of what's going on and it's a bit challenging to write that kind of common tool to to roll that up um one thing is kind of curious like where what is sig apps is you can say apps you put anything under apps in a sense so how do you define the scope of what really goes into sig apps or how is it defined as far as the everything that's is it i know you mentioned workloads kind of aspects of of kubernetes but i don't know if you talk a little bit about what all what all happens there when's the decision of keep putting it to other cigs well that's a that's a very good question so i'll probably uh refer to the sega charter so basically every special interest group within kubernetes has a its own charter as uh as as it sends it basically lists who is the chair what are the sub projects and what basically we do and what are our responsibilities so if you look at the sig abstractor uh we are saying that everything from controllers all the way up to that is running on top of the platform is considered as part of the sega apps so there are multiple topics that went through sega apps controllers are obviously the most primary one i would call it that way so whenever you want to discuss any changes whether to api or functionality to one of the core controllers the sega apps will be the place although some of the controllers are primarily owned by a different sig so for example endpoints or services those will be owned by the by the networking sick sick apps will be mostly controller so uh all the stateful sets uh daemon sets replica set replication controllers all of that and then everything on top of that is running um there's there was a lot of work around and we still have a sub project called an application which is actually in a grouping primitive for a set of workloads together just recently we had a very interesting presentation uh about operator for higher level uh like over operator uh that is overlooking dependencies between deployments that was last monday if i remember correctly the recording is up um and that was pretty interesting and i remember that the person that was explaining the uh the project they mentioned that they are working on open sourcing the solution currently so there's a hope that there will be more uh stuff like that available if you look in the past a helm was for a very long time one of the primary topics uh during sig apps calls and probably a couple other topics and it was sometimes hard or overwhelming but i think at this point in time um the majority of the segaps calls are devoted to the controllers if there are no topics we started doing box crops and prs crops and go through issues because there's uh there's quite a big backlog of the issues that we have against the controllers and we're slowly going through uh through those and we're trying to make sure that the people uh uh people's voices get hurt yeah that was i got involved in uh caps a long time ago and we jokingly refer to it early days as sig helma um because of the so let's dominate this almost a topic uh what are they was gonna say is like if you look at the um the um github page talk about uh cig apps it's one of the things i think is great about it is the non-goals kind of part of what it describes it doesn't endorse one particular ecosystem tool does not pick which apps run on top of kubernetes does not recommend one way to do things or things so i think that's really helps clarify what the group is there to do so uh even to the point of um the app definition i know there's the the label recommendations that that the cigars actually um um oversees as well so uh overall kind of kudos to a complicated topic i think that that sega has worked pretty well to handle over the years as far as scope of applications yeah exactly so you know we only have a whopping 15 minutes left and obviously we don't have to take the whole hour if we don't fill it but what do you think are some of the unique challenges of kubernetes today and you know people starting out the things the sharp edges they might catch themselves on potentially right like if they're getting going with kubernetes hmm that's that's a that's a very interesting question uh for me personally i think the biggest issue is the volume of the changes and something that i'm personally struggling is how to keep up with uh all of the changes all of the requests for reviews um i know that there are multiple issues and pull requests with my name on it and whenever i'm talking with people during kubecons or during uh sig meetings i'm always asking them to reach out to me on slack because my github notifications and my email are way off charts yeah and um i'm always promising myself to keep up with those and it happens a couple every i don't know every couple of months i'm gonna okay i'm gonna clean my inbox uh i'm gonna go to all the way to zero and and then only two three days later or i don't know something happens that there will be other topics that i need to deal with for two three days i'm gonna neglect those those emails and they will pile up very quickly and then it just goes by for the next couple of weeks and then i have to go back the initial oh i need to go through i don't know a couple hundred emails and figure out which i care about and which don't um so that's unfortunately uh a big problem for me personally that's why i'm always always asking if you care about your pr please reach out to me directly on slack i don't mind if you haven't heard from me because you ping me once or twice if you haven't heard from me paying me again in a week i will respond uh i've had numerous many people are paying me uh literally every week for extended period of time like really extended period of time um and eventually i got it through every time i apologize for uh for neglecting that but i always try to if i don't respond within a week feel free to ping me i don't mind honestly i don't mind because there's life there's so many things going on in parallel uh that i'm it just might slip my attention or plainly forget about stuff uh so i don't mind being pinked again and again uh about prs or reviews that yeah that's how it that's how it works yeah if you don't have i couldn't imagine yeah yeah could imagine your inbox and the backlog you have there is i i used to use some of travel dead time to like kind of catch up on those things and don't have that anymore um so but also don't have travel dead time so anyways um the the thing that i was thinking of sort of much is like kind of that involvement with the community and how you've adjusted because i think back i remember in the in the 2019 in san diego at kubecon and we you know we're i think the three of us are probably the same height like we're all pretty tall and we're like talking you know there's people walking by and just hanging out there between the exhibit hall um that's such a great way to connect with people with kubecon coming up in north america again i was kind of curious how you have you adjusted to engaging with the cube community and then more of a virtual presence or so since day one i'm every mode at red hat but as we were talking with chris i do enjoy uh meeting people in person in the early days i have a pretty big red house office in czech republic which is two two and a half hour drive from where i live i was visiting the office every single month uh just for a day but that was nice and even though i'm an introvert and i prefer sitting at home you know close by with just my monitors in front of me i at the same time enjoy from time to time to actually go out and talk to people so even though we are stuck at homes for the past almost two years i do miss uh keep going i'll be missing it even more in two weeks if i remember correctly at the beginning of october i can't join folks in in la but i would love to be around because it is just nicer to talk with people uh i think most of the communication most of the discussion can happen and that that's not a problem either through slack or zoom that works but the bonding part you know having a beverage of your choice with the person and just chatting about silly stuff i don't know disney world trip visiting parents about kids about uh live transportation in detroit or transportation in detroit exactly i mean literally anything and most often that's not even work or project related that what makes a huge difference and even though kubecons did a pretty well job with uh virtualizing those events it's not the same i do miss the interaction where i can see uh stand in front of the people and talk with them ask the questions we literally did instead of doing any kind of presentation for sexy life back in san diego two years ago what we did with phil and sean we stood there and we answered questions about sexy light everything for uh for 90 minutes you can't do something like that with the current uh pre-recorded sessions for cubecons it is not that easy and even though there are slacks uh there are some virtual chats it just doesn't work that way uh the ability that i can come to a person ask the question poke them and or have most importantly the hallway conversation that's invaluable so i i do miss that part and even though i i usually attended kubecon both in uh in north america and then in europe that was enough for me for a year i did those two conferences then defconf as well in brno and i was done for a year three times i did more once or twice i was like yeah that's way too much for me i'm i'm okay with doing a conference per quarter uh that's enough for uh for my introvert uh character so yeah it's a good point i'm flying out next saturday to cubecon and yeah like i remember being in san diego and like at the contributor summit and like there was all kinds of technical issues and then like you know it's much easier to say hey you don't know get let's just sit down and run through it real quick right like this is the bare minimum you need to know now you're a good contributor and like having that face-to-face discussion where there's you know body language and everything else it's a lot easier to interpret um exactly the work that's happening right like that's it's it is very different right and even like live stream like we are right now it's not quite the same as sitting down at a table with our computers and talking about a problem right like it's very much a hey we're going to talk we're going to work we'll talk some more we'll work some more right like it's not the same flow right yeah exactly yeah i even have to confess though even at san diego when i was there like i'm not a not a crowd person either like you know a bit of an introvert so like the keynote sessions i don't go wait in line whatever i stream them from my room so there i am in san diego it's a city looking around the pole squished between here away from where the people are talking so finally being an introvert i actually said during all of the keynote sessions and actually i if i remember correctly the keynote sessions were the only ones that i actually attended because the the remaining ones i usually end up talking with folks in the corridors or in the both halls or you know basically wandering around and eventually uh just popping in for uh for my session or one or two other uh sessions so the keynotes were like the ones that you can actually find me on and then the ones where i'm presenting others well i usually try to set up uh my schedule somehow oh yes these are the stuff that i want to see i probably don't see i don't know like 20 30 of what i checked was like yeah i wanna i wanna check this one out yeah yeah same here yeah you get a few sessions and that feels like about it oh yeah i spend more time talking to people and figuring things out than i do actually listening to people talk right exactly exactly that someone just mentioned rapscallion reeves at least most people at those conferences tend to be introverts too so you're kind of amongst your own people um and then yeah tanah three points out acoustics for the uh exhibition hall in san diego was awful uh if anybody remembers that it was just constantly loud in this big domed space with music playing in the background and 20 000 of our favorite friends or whatever i can't remember the attendance numbers but it was just loud um i mean i remember the i remember when we were in london i think that was the first kubecon uh in europe and there was like a hundred and something people we we barely had like two or three rooms just a little bit of people berlin was pretty much similar and then it just grew exponentially over the years that was crazy yeah yeah and this kubecon i feel like is going to be a little bit like that where it's like a little smaller more you know quaint environment compared to the the tens of thousands we're used to yeah but the downside of that one is that we will be missing a lot of the contributors to the core exactly because of different reasons they're not traveling to u.s or they are not even traveling within the us i spoke with many people and it's not as easy or they are just not willing to uh to do so at this point in time so yeah now i was just talking to a friend on twitter a few minutes before the show started before we got on air and it was like yeah no they can't come because they're in the uk or you know berlin or whatever and yeah the the lack of international folks is going to be very obvious right like it'll feel very you know us-based right like as opposed to a international conference where people kind of gather but with two minutes left there's no questions in chat for oh there is one question in chat i don't want to ask sorry uh what's the best way for random people slash developers to help out with cube projects i have my opinion but i'd like to hear yours or steve's for that matter honestly i always say that it's easier to show up during one of the calls whether that will be sexy live or sig gaps especially the ones that are going through box crops so for example we will be going through customized box crop tomorrow or there's a 60 li box crop in two weeks from uh from tomorrow those are the places where we literally ask is anyone interested in working on this one it's a good place for for asking questions if you're new even during the sega apps or 60 like holes we try to give a little bit of space at the beginning for everyone to introduce themselves who they are what they want to work on so it's perfectly fine to also show up for any of those calls and and explain oh this is the issue that i notice i want to work on it can you help me and just ask questions there's no dumb questions about any of those topics so it's the right place to ask that that's that's usually my uh my simple answer yeah and that's my answer too to be honest with you steve i'm curious if you have a different opinion yeah i mean that's i think also the contributions are valuable across the board so talk about like getting started early and looking at some of the setup instructions might be wrong helping fix those up um opening bugs for you know issues you see for different things that seem a little off so all those things are a good way to get started and like i think one time i started was i wasn't even a go-coder and i fixed one of the the cli issues just because the new lines were screwed up so i knew how to insert new line and compile the code and contribute that back so it was like i could even just fix it was like easy enough instead describing the problem it's like here you go you know so i think little things like that are a good way just depends on your context and background so yeah i mean i started off in sick docs very early on and then made my way over to contrib x and that's kind of where i live now that's fine with me that that'll work for anybody else i feel like too yeah there are multiple options so just pick one yeah and if you really you know want to talk about it feel free to ping me on the kubernetes slack folks chris short wide open there i'm sure matcha and steve are all welcome to answer your questions exactly definitely and uh yeah so thank you machek thank you steve for guest hosting thank you audience for attending i really appreciate everybody here on this call live stream out there thank you very much uh it's good to talk yeah coming up later today we have the call for code for racial justice we'll be talking about take two it's a project that will help folks analyze data about the justice system in a way that will make people rethink about sentencing and things like that so should be an interesting call and lots of fun stuff for the ibm team on the call for code side so yeah good stuff so thank you everyone for joining and have a great day and stay safe out there you

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Length: 63min 35sec (3815 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 28 2021