Prison Podcast - To catch a predator Ex lifer takes justice into his own hands.. what would you do?

it's a deep thing as well you know what i'm saying like like i've had to retell my story to get my freedom brother you know what i mean and it's it's it's so vivid you know what i'm saying take a second you know what i'm saying i mean got all due respect you get me yeah of course it's mad cars thinking in my head you know what i might have put my dog in this situation where we're all on a m because i might have gone too far you know what he's done he said careful you man don't get a life sentence you know i've been there before i've done mad things that i said shut your [ __ ] mouth i ran him i said you know move for me i'll give him the serious look in his eyes like if you don't move from there now you're getting banged in it and then he just walked off but you see when he said that that was your angel yeah you washed his mouth on me do you remember your first day in prison your first night in prison yeah man horrible man delinquent nation prison diaries this is all always got a crazy story it's gonna be a controversial one um so yeah um stay tuned but yeah um oh what's going on bro yes my brother respect for having me no come on bro um i think your bridging reached out and told me about your case like straight away i was like that is it that's gonna be an interesting one obviously for the people that are even in the comments and that for them to say what they think as well but i hear it so first of all um so your name's ol where where did you where'd you where did you grow up i grew up in north london um to to be specific uh wood green i grew up in uh for a few years um then i lived in tottenham with family and uh something like children's home and foster care and all that for a number of years yeah and then i moved to fringe park after that yeah and then after that man was gone gone yeah yeah we're gonna we're gonna get into that um can you tell us a bit about your background so growing up you've already said using foster care and things like this so can you take it back because what i like to do is not everyone just does a mad thing in it you know what i'm saying i like to go back into the life just to figure out where was the turning point you know what i'm saying or what what kind of clicked and and you know i'm saying so how was your upbringing like my upbringing um it's a bit complex still but i think it's relatable to most people in the sense of um i grew up with just my mum you get me for so many years and i mean my two sisters have an older sister and a younger sister yeah um no father around you know what i'm saying so that was the typical you know i mean single mom you know what daddy around you know i mean um i was just like a bit if i really you you know what i mean i think i mean because i'm really from early from when you yeah yeah i think it's that typical thing of not having a dad around yeah you know what i'm saying most of us brothers you know what i'm saying hundred percent grew up with no daddy you know what i'm saying yeah but unruly you know what i mean and it's hard for mommy to sometimes manage man and then in my situation it was like i was so bad at like believe this or not nursery and infant school and then junior school i was getting kicked out of them because i was just angry youth that was yeah so my mom struggled to get me into um other schools after they was kicking me out and that so she had to go to this guy named bernie grant that he was the mp back in the day in tottenham yeah bernie grant ernie grimes this is bernie grant central you bernie grant you got me into greenfields in muslim hill that was an ebd school yeah which means emotional behavioral difficulties yeah but it was just bad dudes they're in it had temper problems in it you couldn't be handled in mainstream school so i was there for a number of years you know i mean and then obviously i was even back there so it was like when i was getting home and getting licks and all that my mom just one day said you know what i can't take this madness little boy like and i think this she was talking with the school and the school was talking about her with my behavior and they made suggestions and what not whatever happened i ended up in care anyway and i said all right then if i can get a break for the summer you get me yes yeah yeah and you can just go and do what he's doing how old was you when you went to care i was young you know probably about eight or nine yeah it could even be a year younger or something my random sort of times yeah yeah how long did you go in careful and how did you feel about going was you the only one that went into killing like you had sisters yeah at that time i was the only one my other two sisters ended up you know i mean going into care i think one of them and then doing their owner type of thing like leaving home and you know running away from home back in there to run away from home and stay with your bridges or whatever disappear in it and then come back and whatnot so um yeah bro man um care it was um for me it was like escapism in it yeah like first of all like raw i ain't got my mom around me now i can just do what i want dude like these people ain't gonna beat me even worse now yeah that's what i'm saying i'm running up and down and like pool foot road which is um on the block of tiverton inside yeah is they will call the police in it if you don't come back after certain hours you know what i mean so all them type of things was happening and there was a couple man from the ends that was there with me you kept me yeah um that used to be an um what green is to call this to call himself i think that young mafia junior matthew remember them no that was like the little crew i mean if they're firm remember green firm i remember back in the days when i was growing up come from tottenham i remember there wasn't really a difference between tottenham and green you know what i'm saying because there wasn't the beef back in the days of course of course yeah tottenham would green you was united that that you had you had you had wood green fermented and you had tottenham mandem yeah yeah yeah wood green firm was like blue lead on yeah cause i was growing up and i was in green until my transition into tottenham you get me properly was when i went in care yeah yeah i'm saying so to me at them young age okay well green was then man there i knew about the top of the man there but obviously i had there's a few men you know what i mean that was like junior mafia young mafia you understand that super bigger you get me all these type of guys that was in this thing you get me and then one of the two of them are seeing care and that you know what i mean i started realizing okay yeah the mandem's in these places as well you know what i mean okay cool is more fun you know what i'm saying and um so you didn't see it like sorry to cut you didn't see it like like you didn't you didn't you didn't feel abandoned or nothing like that you just felt like this is lit like like what am i ruthless and then tell me you'll clean that up and make sure you don't you get me talk about that so it was mad you know how it is growing up when you're getting licks enough so to be in care now i'm not getting no licks what yeah yeah i'm having fun it's a bit of freedom yeah a bit of freedom you know i mean and then but the second time i went in care i started to feel like do you miss my family you know yeah yeah i remember one time i was in um palmer's green living with this woman and um my mom came to visit me and when my mom and my sister was leaving like a little tear coming out my eyes i didn't want them to go i think that i probably felt like you know that family bond of no like you know what i mean because that woman there in that yard she was a bit more stricter you understand because paulford road was a children's home yeah you know i mean you had staff there the staff changed shifts and rare area you know what i'm saying it's never got a consistent person trying to be that guardian or that parent role you know i mean you know in a foster house you get when you've got a festive parent or parents you know i mean like they're they're playing that parent role yeah yeah no i mean she was a bit strict and i was like wrong man i kind of miss my mama you know what i mean so that time there was a bit mad as well you know what i mean and then after that i went home and then i went care again i lived in iodine yeah you hit me yeah come on you get me that like the man i grew up with you know i mean was on the block with me as well i was living next door to one of them and them on either as well you know yeah so but i couldn't really go out and play with that man yeah that man are older yeah sometimes driving rental [Music] you know i mean can't wait to grow up and be out there with them and whatnot but yeah man so yeah that was my little section in um foster care man and that's how you met the man as well and then obviously from there when you got out of foster care and whatever what you still linking up with these people yeah yeah a few one or two of them still because um when i went back to live with my mom and we agreed that um i got close we went one one brother and he ended up being my cody okay you know i mean so even though i know of all the man them and you know i mean tottenham with green you know i mean i'm just on my own a team you know what i mean i've got my own right hand man and yeah yeah just being on your own yeah one or two parties here you know i mean we're starting to do our little thing you get me you know what i mean every time they were buying lamborghinis yeah that's got a new shoes lamborghini yeah sometimes it was only the um the red and the yellow one yeah my man went away then the blue ones come out and that but yeah we was doing that little thing in that man yeah so what what was the charge what did you get charged for i got charged for m murder now this is it's not your typical murder in it or like what you know it's not your typical one this is like yeah in fact what did you get how long did you get um the judge sentenced me to 11 years and 127 days but uh that stage when he did send it to me i've done a year in roman so so in total like well all together though it's complex because i did 17 and a half years oh wait okay you did 17 all together nah stop you there this is what i'm saying is techie yeah because i did um 14 years behind the door yeah all together then i got out and then i was only out for nine months and i got recalled okay for two years and then i was at for three months and then i got recalled for a year and a half so all together 17 and a half years i've done better yeah you get me offered this yeah it gave me life sentence and how how old was you when when you caught them i was 19 still 19 all right um so that's what i want to get into so tell us about what led up to the to the m quite is proper like he's proper interest in that tell us what like what led up to what happened and then we can talk through um so basically um when i was 19 my right hand man at the time he was 19 as well but he quickly turned 20 around the times it was like 2003 summer um i was living in frenzy park sometimes uh my boy was like down the road from me you know i mean so it was basically you know i mean in frenzy park area and yeah i've gone through it you know like i've had to go for it with psychology yeah it's a deep thing as well you know what i'm saying like like i've had to retell my story to get my freedom brother you know what i mean and it's it's it's so vivid you know what i'm saying take a second you know what i'm saying i mean got all due respect you get me yeah of course yeah and them ting there so what's happened is my boy his girl he was with at the time they were going for a bit of a rough patch in the relationship and whatnot and um she basically had a friend she said was a friend and they were chatting in his yard some social gathering type of thing he's got his brother there and his friends them and whatever yeah so i thought it could drink up socializing whatnot and she's chatting to this guy in his yard about our relationship and whatnot on general things you know i mean i think it was some confident in each other type of team he was doing this yard man roll over yeah tell me a problem man you can't take it off and fix them yeah you're sure yeah that type of thing but obviously this is the story that she's relating to my dog and then my dog's relaying this to me which i'm really into you okay yeah you get me so you have to pay that respect oh i'm telling it yeah so obviously she's saying that raw she went to link him a second time now jam in his yard and he was like call me a little side room here and chat because obviously you're telling me that you're stressed out and getting rotated i don't really want to talk about your business in front of everybody so they've gone in his room to the side or whatever had their drinks and whatever i see and chatting and then he's tried to move to her she said no yeah then he's just forced the situation okay and done the nasty man thing and she's saying look he raped me he held me down i tell him to get off he wouldn't get off yeah he was making comments while he was doing it like i'm a bad man i'll tell your man about me i'm very rare yeah yeah it was vicious man and so this story got told to me you know i mean um so her so her guy who she's been like obviously she's with him but they have been their dramas or whatever she's obviously told him like right my mind's raped me and told all the deals he told you and then yeah yeah so he's telling me this story i after life i haven't seen him for about two weeks yeah yeah i mean we don't see your way for like two weeks and get the phone call out of the blue yeah yeah come downstairs in that 20 minutes yeah all right all right cool i'm chilling with my gap yeah and i was thinking that was a bit random you get me just jump up and you're getting getting ready to cut out while go on it don't watch that don't watch that i'm telling her soon come but i've gone downstairs spoke to him yeah we've made like well he said look we're gonna go to my yard and chat to my girl again and get her to confirm this yeah quite sounds a bit booky so he went to his yard then and his girls there and she phoned the guy and said to him look why did you do that violate and not stop when i told you to you get me from that response we're gonna make from it whether or not this guy's guilty in it because he's on speaker in it and we're just being quiet so to him it's just her and talking yeah so she's calling it she's like why did you okay yeah yeah cause he wants to know he kept me are you chatting airsoft yeah because sorry to cut you but it's like in that situation she's got um motive to lie in it because she's yeah i'm saying of course but she's called him yeah yeah so she's called him and said that to him and then his response was just a mumble that i just couldn't make it out yeah no one could make it out between the three of us like what she asked him again and he just mumbled like ooh something and he was just mad so from that i think we all just took it as an admission of guilt without even saying it to each other like so from that point on my boy was like listen i'm gonna go to your yards there's a bat in the flats gonna get that i've got one in my boot i'm gonna wait we're gonna get tara to tell my man coming link you get me and then obviously we're going to just say to him yo you're violated you have to stay away in it yeah don't keep it moving yeah that was the plan on paper it's all good yeah but in theory now so you didn't actually think like rather mine's gonna do you just want it to chat and say like right i'm just thinking you know what i said to my guy i said bro you know this might call mad in it like it could easily go left oh you don't know how this guy's pulling up yeah yeah if he's saying to her he's this guy and that guy he was saying to her i'm a bad boy my name is this time that and you get me i've got be a man on road that doing this and that for me and he could have been gassing and lying but i'm thinking wrong 50 50 yeah if this guy did genuinely rape her yeah he might be coming on a defense thing like thinking like wrong is the girl trying to set me up because i genuinely did do that so i have to come on a thing where i'm not slipping yeah something right if this guy's gonna come in and he's not slipping he might come in time yeah he might come with his budget 100 yeah and if he is a bad man and he's a bigger man for us so apparently he was in his um late 30s yeah and at the time i'm just 19. that's true nothing wrong all right older man it's supposed to be a bad man as well right you can't go there under prepared yeah i'm saying to mother look all right we're going with the bats but it could go more fun so you sure you don't want to explore other options it's like nah this is what we're doing i'm saying okay then cool yeah that's cool he's telling me this with water in his eye as well bro so it hit me yeah yeah yeah yeah it hit me in a way where i wanted the ball but yeah yeah i'm like so boy so you've so you've come so you you turn up now and it's turned up now i was waiting in some phone boxes for the guy to pull up she was at the bus stop waiting for the guy to pull up i was mad because um i was waiting for like a good ten minutes but also like the longest 10 minutes of my life mad because obviously when you're waiting to do something the realist will know when it when you're about to go and do something and you're like right as it's gonna turn out you're giving us a feeling only certain people will know about but i had that feeling you get me so the ten minutes was long but within that ten minutes some junkie tried to come in the phone boxes like i want to use this phone box like move from here man i'll use the one next door he's like no i need to call my um baby i've got to take my you to school tomorrow and um some other [ __ ] i was like move man you get me back he's clocked the bats in the phone box you know what he's done he said careful you man don't get a life sentence you know i've been there before i've done mad things that i said shut your [ __ ] mouth i ran him i said you know move from me i'll give him the serious look in his eyes like if you don't move from there now you're getting banged in it yeah yeah and then he just walked off but you see when he said that that was your angel yeah he washed his mouth he's washed his mouth on you or you could look at it like that was i don't know like a higher power i'm telling you probably loudly you know what i'm saying because sometimes you get these messages and it's come across as just a junkie yeah and he wants that phone box and then he's clocked he said no i don't catch her life so it could have been you could look at like a wash his mouth when you but you can look it in another way like okay what a divine intervention yeah yeah exactly if you really read into this right now yeah you're for u-turn for true i've looked back on it like that's all you know brother but the things that have happened after and come out of everything that's happened 17 years after it's a bit i think rough that never happened then this wouldn't have happened and that wouldn't happen and you know what i'm saying this is a bit mad but i i actually my opinion anyways yeah i've been in similar circumstances where you just get a random just you know walk past and they just say something and you're like do you know what i'm saying and then you you know it's like a gut feeling sometimes you get a gut feeling not listen to it but this is a person not even a gut feeling it's a person telling you like my you don't catch it obviously true you've never never you never went job before that in it i went joel twice before that for driving the fences all right little stinks yeah so that was probably the one you probably didn't think right oh this could be a m magic you probably thought the worst cave management in the bathroom you know i'm saying like yeah and it gets like that and it bought but yeah sorry bro carry on i just wanted to you get me caught i think that was a divine intervention like i think these things happen it was mad so after he's left the phone box about two minutes later after that the man's pulled up she'd come out the phone box she's that what she got obviously got off the bus stop started talking to him we've come at the phone box and as we're approaching them this is only like about 20 steps from where they are you get me as we're approaching them it's like he he spun and he see us coming and he's just grabbed the gun nah yeah and like hold her like in a bear hog sort of thing so like she's shielding him you know like that like raw this girl is in my arms right now so if anything like one you better pause because this girl's in my arms so i've grabbed his arm and lick him with the back with one hand get me around his area around here and then my boy's done the same thing on the other side of him he's let go of the gal yeah the girl's gone off close to my yard at the time so i think she's going off into my yard or whatever and then my man's obviously trying to defend himself so he's trying to block him and then he's trying to grab the bat at the same time so i'm kind of like back stepping in my back and it's still swinging i'm thinking i'm not letting you take this thing off me yeah it's a bit mad right now but each time i'm just swinging swinging swinging and swinging with the bat and then i can just hear smash smash smash smash so after i've realized well my dog is just smashed at the hold of the car windows while i was just yeah yeah while he was going out here going at it with my man and then obviously mom has dropped to the floor and i've just ten toes yeah shout out to my boy look come on he's caught he's on it you know we've caught up you know drop the bats off in some bins and then um at that point what did you think you think you just knocked out or did yeah i'm thinking he's beat yeah yeah he's he's taking some some headshots he's yeah he's wounded yeah but you know i mean he but you didn't think it was a body no i didn't think it was a body until after like we've circled the block and then we've seen the white tent in the road yeah yeah and obviously my my yard overlooks the road yeah where the tent is and all that so i'm watching everything from my window and it's so mad and i'm thinking [ __ ] this is peace it's like give me murder scene like you know what i mean so i'm down on my knees all praying brother yeah please god don't make this guy die because this that was a bait thing this was mad this is big straggling rod yeah oh striking wrote it happen oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah [ __ ] sweat yeah yeah about nine ten o'clock at night be a witnesses you get me like this is mad like get mad just had on a hoodie man wasn't yeah because like you said you wasn't even you just wanted to to check him quickly you didn't even really you get me until he grabbed the girl so it's an instant reaction in it but to be fair like to like my opinion on this is like quickly if he's seen human coming and then he's grabbed a girl straight away i think that in itself is guilty that's an indication that's an indication that like because if you just did it and it was cool and why would you do that yeah why would you then who does that yeah who does that who does that ct man come in two figures come in get me who did that up and that yeah and then just grab the guy like you're supposed to be picking up that's the indication i think like that you you probably did do it you thought oh [ __ ] straightaways clicked yeah i heard that still so bam you seen the white tents and that whatever it was bait how soon after did you get nicked it was about six weeks after no way um so in them six weeks did you think maybe you got away with it you know what the crime stoppers board went up about six seven days after it happens i think he died three or four days after but then the murder ball went up a couple days after so yeah crime stoppers board was with over strike green road you know what i mean and um it was mad car i just felt bait no i mean and obviously my dog was like you know we can't roll for a little while in the car he was mad like he's taller than a minute and i'm the shorter one so he's like six foot saturn i'm only five nine i saw that we just stayed away from each other for a little while i was talking on the phone but i just felt like i was being watched and you know i'm saying because of that crackhead that night as well i mean it was just mad and then um obviously that murder ball going up as well thinking i need to bust out the country i need to cut when he went up was it a picture of your face no it was a it was a picture of his face saying do you know this man oh uh because he was um here illegally in the country okay and obviously they didn't have his proper identity okay they had him down there's a couple of aliases so on the board on the crime stoppers world he said do you know this guy or otherwise known as this name yeah you want any information relating to his murder blah blah blah and i'm saying so one day was mad like across from my yard struggling road like there's a bus stop and i looked above the bus stop and i see a curtain twitch and i felt like it was feds watching me and it was they were doing their operations with me but later on i found out that oba was because of the crackhead he phoned the crime stoppers and said yeah no way i know who these guys are i'm seeing them every day i'm every day come come come come and get them come and get them and in the hitler police interview you know that it was like well we heard we didn't have nothing to go on but we had this phone call consistently day after day day after day after day consistently from this one guy saying he knows he knows this he knows that and then because we never had nothing to go on we just went with what he was saying the information he's saying the tall guy short guy there's a girl because i i was coming out of my house after all that with my girl staying with me at the time so witnesses were saying look on that night we see two guys and a girl and the attack happened so they're looking for basically two guys and a girl i'm coming out of my yard i'm just like yeah one or two times i did link my boy so the surveillance that i've seen okay he's tall he's short it's a gallon yeah what the crackhead saying yeah hmm all right cool they did a door-to-door in that area they come to my door and said right it was mad they come to my door and said well um where was you that night and i was like well i was at my boy's yard up the road ready getting my alibi yeah not knowing that they're already on to me i'm just thinking right they're doing a general door-to-door because they're gonna do that for a m they're gonna question everybody in that area you know i mean to see if he was a bat did you see anything and um they checked my alibi i went up the road to holly parker state and this brazilian where i used to go to my school in highgate wood yeah i went up to his yard he did got to yard me my dog and we changed off our clothes whatnot i said circle the block come back he basically just sucked yeah they come to my yard they changed their clothes it was it was in a kind of agitated state i knew something was going on but they weren't telling me much they just said they had a little madness uh a disagreement with some guys down in rowan's you know rowan's boring alley yeah that's what we told a minute because my instinct was telling me you know what yeah look at this agreement but you get me with just a cheating girlfriend circle you know what i'm saying but he's told him everything so they put that with what the crackhead said you know what i'm saying and then kicked off our doors one day questioned us um so i forgot to mention as well they found the baseball bats in the bins a couple of blocks up from where i live as well that was just messy it was just stupid but anyway i saw the thing certainly yeah that's what ma'am i mean it's like that gets like that sometimes man you know what i'm saying um yeah and um it was mad man so they booted off your door like arresting you for murder mm-hmm at that point was you already prepared did you really think this is going to happen or did you think you might know what there was a sense of relief in me you know bro i was like [ __ ] you know thank god this is over man this is mine like i get you again not knowing yeah when they're coming because i felt like it was coming because another thing that happened as well we got stopped in turnpike lane and was in um my dog's car yeah late at night and a few bits and pieces in the car and i thought oh [ __ ] we're [ __ ] yeah so the feds now they've walked off for a second gone on their radios and come back and go now we've got another situation to deal with mate you're all right later on they've told us in the yeah you will stop one night but the officers uh what they call them flipping uniform officers were told by cid leave them alone because they're getting yeah yeah yeah we're doing them so you know i mean that that kind of sentiment is wrong how can i just just what yeah this man going in the ting with the curtain across the roof on my yard and you know it was all tense it was like no this is she's mad and people were saying to me yeah i can help you bust out you get me just get your passport ready this and the other and that was all taking long enough every week that went on from there i started to think yeah it might be calm remember it was six weeks you know until they kicked off my door so i'm thinking yeah it might be calm cause i'm just cooling in my yard in my gal look at me silly o'clock in the morning boom you know what i'm saying i'm thinking right this man because i had a little bit of dramas on the road with certain little idiots and whatnot and i thought rosie the ops i threw up the bed and gone to the door but the way they come in with their kit on the rear and you get me manhandled and yeah when they said yeah i'm arresting you for murder blah blah blah [ __ ] you know at that point you must have been thinking yeah i'm right off i'm done yeah yeah i mean yeah that was it man you know like if you've ever been back before you know what i'm saying you know you know what they got me [ __ ] that's it at the same time with your thing i don't know if you knew from guy and joe before but obviously with a body that's a wreck in it so it's like you're doing the whole sentence of course them times there i was thinking ra everything i know about jalen that to my knowledge is raw m is 25 to life exactly and they can give you that natural thing where you're not coming now you're staying in there so i thought oh [ __ ] all i've got to make sure is i don't get the natural life thing you get me or the 25 anything underneath that could probably manage car doing the maths because you would have come out if you even if you got a 20 you would have come out like maybe 45 you know what i'm saying 44. yeah yeah you know what i mean so yeah still got life um so what did you and your cody get back together yeah they kicked off my door my cody's door the girl's door even my sister's baby father's daughter was mad because they thought that he bought the baseball bats from i think remember briggs green back in the day they thought he bought the bats from some shop called briggs anyway yeah but um they looked at the cctv and realized after when they see him in the flesh it wasn't him and then let him go in it so initially there was four of us that got arrested for all our murder they let my sister's baby father go after they realized it weren't him he bought the bats so that's what i was going to get onto next so the girl that had um said that the guy raped him she must have got arrested for murder as well no yeah she did yeah was that one like but how did they even know do not know that she was involved like that or did she say it or that um because obviously they did surveillance in it so the surveillance that they had was watching me and my girl and then watching my dog and his girl they just didn't know which gal it was it was at the bus stop so i even forgot my girl even got arrested okay they arrested her quickly yeah yeah when they her parents got involved no no no no yeah and that was it so it was four of us oh okay and then they let my sister's baby father go after about he must have been on my mind for about two or four weeks in belmont he was pissed like you know i mean it was mad and then um the three of us was waiting for trial so in that time must have been like a lot must've been going through your head were you thinking you could possibly bust it you know what i was thinking i need to know what they got in it and then take it from there and obviously once i see that they give you a thing called first disclosure on it when they show you the first piece of evidence they've got and then they don't have to show you their main belly you know i mean until the trial they only gonna show you a little piece and a sample so from the sample that they showed man i was like this is mud get me they've got the uh the boy saying that yeah yeah you come to my yard you know what i mean singing red here that 14 witnesses yeah you know what i mean and then we've done the id parade obviously before the trial and then you know what i mean and then 14 a good majority of them pointed at me in my dog you know what i mean and gal um yeah so i had a few bits on us though so i thought you know what best thing one can do out this is a manslaughter yeah yeah that's when it all gets techy you see carl all right i wanted the man slaughter you get me but my prosec sorry my um defense is presented to the prosecution yeah but obviously you've got my code either in it and he's trying to bust you he's def he's trying to bust it all yeah so he's not even going to take this he's saying no no no no [ __ ] the m yeah [ __ ] manslaughter for everything yeah [ __ ] any conspiracy no no no no no i i'm going home i didn't kill nobody yeah anything underneath that i mean from that so it was a bit techy still because you know i mean we had a few words and whatnot and he was like no i'm not taking and i said you know what [ __ ] it just do what you're doing in it my child was peak still because it was like to put this in the best way possible i didn't have to say anything my barrister said look i'm gonna present your your your defense to you because you were just in your yard chilling with your gal yeah your boy just called you out yeah yeah he's going to back him for a mad situation yeah he should have gone pete tom yeah you know what i mean you just there to help your veteran like anyone would do yeah she's gone mad yeah you know what i'm saying so you didn't have intention to kill this man yeah but you know i mean things happen in it yeah so my boy's defense was well okay i called him out his yard it was my plan ready to tear to go and do all this but when it started jumping off all i did is just lick mine a couple times and then i took my attention to the car i started smashing up the car i don't know what was going on in the road behind me and i can't you get me i knew that my man was behind me you get me in the road with oh and that but i don't know what was going on i can only account for what i did yeah and as far as i'm concerned i hate my man several times and it my blow could have been the fatal blow that caused these things or it could have been the blows that were going on in the road if it were getting a sort of thing but i was like yeah it's a bit um just a bit i think we had a conversation about this the other day on another podcast let's have it right where from the ends in it so if you call a man to come masha works and he's a dog so you know what you look at it like i'm gonna hold that you you're cool in it you can you're going home i mean i'll take that i'll hold that but it won't like that i don't think my dog at the time he's fully from the road like he didn't have that mentality i don't think so you understand it's it's it's mad so we didn't i kind of saw that in him as well and i thought you know what i'm not going to pressure him like that i'm going to accept responsibility for what i've done as well you know what i'm saying because i swung and swung and swung and swung a whole leap of times yeah yeah so it's mad cause thinking in my head you know what i might have put my dog in this situation where we're all on the m because i might have gone too far but really and truly the whole situation is your situation so reading truly you're supposed to say you know what yeah i'm gonna take that from you know man i'll just it was like i think his mentality was and this is my opinion you know i mean he might differ on it never know he might have him on the show one day um he thought right i'm going to take this one some responsibility for iodine and then you take responsibility yeah that's it it's mad so reading judy you get me it turns into what they call a cutthroat trial that's what's about to say did it turn into a cultural team car it is yeah it is it is like i said again so cut throat just for those that don't know it's basically when one cody decides to pull it on the other kodi kind of thing and yeah so the barrister one barrister will be going against the other barrister of course or qc which is of course of course of course my qc is saying look my man just come out his yard to defend his friend yeah you know i mean he might have swung the bat a few times and then obviously as soon as the man's dropped to the floor broke his fall he's run off he didn't got the intention to kill my man yeah no i mean michael these barristers saying well my client you know what i mean did call this man out of his house but when the violence started he only ditched that uh one or two and then started smashing the car so to account for the injuries that caused this man's death we'll leave it up to you the jury to decide yeah in the way barrister's word things yeah yeah they got different different yeah i've got jury members all looking at me like scowling screw face like right like i've done something to them personally that's how you know it's especially not using old bailey come on then most of the witnesses are saying that are for the most most of them are saying right the short one the short one the short one than the most i'm the most the most i'm thinking oh my god yes yeah drew he's looking at me like they hate me all the witnesses are saying the short one than the most by either way i think that is a that isn't that's a joint enterprise thing in it so it's like either way it was your i in my view anyways i think it was your bridging that called you up it's happened then it happens a lot like sometimes that's cool it happens a lot here where it pops off and then sometimes it might go too far in it you know what i'm saying but at the end of the day it's not your madness and i think that was probably for your virgin to say you know what this is my gal this this is my gal you come out back to i'll hug that i hugged the bird didn't it but that's the right thing to do but i don't think that happens in a lot of cases as well in it remember like you said using bell marshall so you already went below martial how many other m's yeah case did you see where there was beer codes but then one man can hug it because that man actually he's the one that did it yeah but he's like nah i'm not hugging it we're taking it to trial did it did it turn and it just kind of you get me but what what happened with you and your cold and did they separate you from different wings and no that's what i was gonna say i was just gonna um take you back a bit there because the bell marsh thing was there's a crown called called woolwich well it's yeah yeah and they take you underground yeah and obviously i think you kind of passed belmont belmont into thingy so i was only in belmar in the cells underneath to go into the court cause i was too young oh belmarsh but we were both going to the courts from felton yeah yeah my cody was 20 at the time and i was 19. and then when he turned 21 he sent him from felton to belmarsh and kept me at felton yeah yeah and then when i turned uh 20 they sent me ellsbury until i was 21. yeah you know i mean after that starred up and then all the adult jokes um yeah yeah so like yeah so basically you guys fell out basically after that you know what it was it was like he they put him in belmosh i was where i was in front i'm doing my team wrote to each other briefly a few times you know what i mean but you know that was it was like a few and far between few little letters here and there but you know i mean we kind of kept the link and then i did back him in 2009 in swell side oh you see him you're boxing yeah yeah yeah cause it was mad i was trying to get to jails that he was at but the um but why was he trying to link him though would you because was it a cut-throat trial where he was like i'm talking about after we got sentenced oh yeah yeah after we got sent off through the trial we was in the same job together i was in felt i'm all the way through the crowd but that's what that's what i mean like because it was a cutthroat trial yeah it was mad what i said to him look you can't do this you cut you have to do this and adam rotates here and there was another guy that was um on the wing of us that was a bit older than us you know i mean and he's been through like section 18s and bus m cases and that and he was schooling us on it you know what i mean he was like listen i know you men are religious people and you you get me and you got your fate and all that but there's a difference between holding the fate and judging durian yeah yeah so you have to get you lost things straight yeah if i don't make this sense both for you going down for this yeah one of you needs to be on the road at least yeah and then you can support it yeah and again i don't know it seemed like my way was thinking like that you know i mean so it did get a little bit tense but again i'm saying to myself raw she's mad what am i gonna do it won't change like and if i'm gonna do like fight him yeah be in my way you know what i mean it was mad i was in a conflict with was it my fault yeah it's almost psychologically [ __ ] like i thought wrong i got my dog into a situation yeah i don't think you have a 100 but at that time as a 19 year old with that 19 year old brain it was confusing for me like did i yeah was it me no man it wasn't me they called me out of my yard it was his thing he bought me on his thing but how did i go too far i couldn't balance it ah so because i couldn't balance it out i just didn't say that i went into my show almost i just didn't say nothing i'd accept it i thought [ __ ] it if i don't get 25 years i can ride this yeah like a soldier yeah and come out you get me another side it's still strong yet me thank god on that but yeah that's how it was bro man so we did get into that heated discussions and that a few times but he was so adamant and not budging i just said [ __ ] it [ __ ] it whatever man so what so what did you say what did the judge hand down to you then what sex was so at that time i did about a year on raman and then he gave me 11 years 127 days yeah i went over tariff yeah ended up doing 14 years yeah well we're going to get into that and then what did your call did you get he got um 12 years 27 days plus the year and so and then the girl who right yeah again with this trouting what happened is her barystar got her a plea bargain with the prosecution for conspiracy to assault on the basis that she her cases she thought okay well no not she thought she knew that we're gonna go and approach this guy but she didn't know there was gonna be violence and she definitely didn't know the guy was gonna die yeah so because of that they called it conspiracy to assault okay so that's yeah levels down from of course our conspiracy to murder she got conspiracy to assault yeah yeah she's already done that year in my mind you know i mean did she give her something like an extra two years to do on top of her something took off the remain time she was out after the person okay you know i mean that's what she got and then it was mad because again the jury was asking where's the girl i want to hear from the girl they're asking that to the judge sending notes to the judge yeah and the judge sent no way he didn't send notes back to them he said to them look this trial is going to go ahead yeah you know that this story was told to these two young men by a female she's a real female she's a real person but she won't be part of this trial so you won't get to hear from her directly all you have to deal with is these two young men were told this story and this is what they've done on that on on the night in question okay to deal with them on that basis yeah yeah yeah so she was kind of protected in a way yeah it was it was mad because i'm thinking oh in a minute there was a time in my head in that trauma for if this girl comes and tells these jewelry what happened to her you might actually bust case yeah but then when i realized she's not enough she's not coming in the trash so i just moving forward then like obviously you and your cody got small sentences for uh murder yeah so what was it what because there's different levels in it so what what how did how did they say because obviously we'll be gang like some murders you get like if it's a gang violence is like 25 or not and then that monetary gain is like you know what i'm saying so what was your like you got like crimes of passion you know i'm saying that's what they call the crime of passion and the remorse that was shown and um i think the judge put an element of diminished responsibility into it yeah yeah and he said oh these young men probably were quite panicked by what was going on and you know one thing led to the other yeah but still we were willing occupants yeah yeah get me in carrying out an assault which led to him as murderer so um that's how the judge kind of summed up and described it yeah i mean like um yeah you showed remorse and you know yeah it wasn't your intention but the technicality in the law says if you go out equipped with the intention to call somebody harm yeah because this is the prosecution's case and they're saying these two men were not equipped with the intention to cause harm they didn't go out of the intention to kill this man but because they were not equipped with tools whatever it may be uh to harm this man and the injuries caught his death is murder yeah i heard that so what i think the judge put into it with his diminished responsibility is the fact that the story got relayed to my boy by his girl he was emotional yeah he related to me yeah it's a bit emotional for me well very emotional for all of us so all of you was a man yeah for everyone involved the situation just didn't get handled right the girl didn't want to call the police she didn't tell her mum yeah yeah yeah we're three youngsters that took a situation into our own hands and he spiraled out of control within seconds yeah yeah i'm gonna get into your prison life in a second yeah but just to touch on the actual crime yeah what like how how how do you feel about like after doing the sentence in your eye and now how do you feel about the crime or would you have done anything different because like you say you didn't actually got there to to drop my mind so it's not like you went out there with murder in your mind in it so it's like if you was to go out and do the same thing again had someone told you they've been raped whatever whatever like it's not like oh you're trying to come out and just drop rapists you know what i'm saying like i think you just went out to do something it just kind of went too far but how do you feel about that now now that you've done the bird or whatever and you know um you know the fella that's that's passed away or whatever like how do you feel about you feel remorseful because of that and it's an honest question yes it's because because he may have written let's say you believe that he's raped this girl are you remorseful for doing that because like you know how it gets in joe yo like if you if you if you're if you're a rapist in jail or you're a pedophile any type of nonce crimes in jail they get dealt with properly in it you know what i'm saying so like i had you because bob what i thought when your bedroom shouted me was like telling me your story or whatever i was like i was putting myself in the same situation i don't talk to police in it so it's like me being in the same situation say like a girl that i was close with and he was like you raped me and it's confirmed it's like you're gonna pattern it yourself in it you know what i'm saying like or i'll probably tell her maybe you need to talk to the police or whatever you know i mean i don't know but are you how do you feel now like like in your eyes you've taken the rapist off the roads well off the earth do you know what i'm saying how do you feel about that now you know what yeah to be a hundred percent it's a rapist in it so yeah you know i mean to have one less on the earth yeah you know i mean i can't feel bad about myself you know what i mean i'm not saying that you know what i mean i'm being bossy about anything i've done right now it's not come on man germs is a germs in it yeah yeah and i'm saying the nasties are nasty you know what i'm saying yeah yeah yeah a lot of people i think people can write in the comments but i think a lot of people would agree with you obviously there's a lot of people that are more social as well so they're like they won't be like not the thing about it is bro yeah rape is a violation yeah not much women out there has been raped and they will tell you what these men have done to them you know what i mean i'll tell you wrong i wish i could have done that to that man or you know what i'm saying castrate him cut off his bollocks and these type of things all you know i mean i wish i could strangle him more rare tear tear you know what i'm saying it's real [ __ ] this is real life man i'm saying that i don't know man whoever wants to judge me judge me in it but if you're real put yourself in a real situation and then yeah i mean judge me from there from reality you get me if you've been a victim of a sex crime you get me or something like that you know what i mean you have to be there it's true because i think a lot of people that a lot of women or even men whatever if if they had been in that same situation where a family member or someone that's close to them have been raped they they probably want to take it into their own hands as well you know what i'm saying like of course some people do call the police and that but it's like like you said like your brethren's girl in it and then he's called on you like so yeah well i don't i don't judge you for that that's just my personal opinion i don't i don't judge you for that i feel like you you had a reason to do what you did and then you're out here now telling your story and respect but i feel like yeah as long as it was kind of confirmed in it like like you said like you did what you had to do to confirm it right and there's more that happened like throughout the trial like where even before the trial my girl i was with at the time when the murder bull went up and and the guy's face was on it she said to me ross i know that guy you know he tried to rape me in a toilet a year before i met you in halloween yeah i said what she said yeah i was in holloway in the hairdresser's and half of it's a barbers i went out the back to use the toilet and this guy followed me in there locked the door by hand and i said what are you doing and he said oh run some [ __ ] now and she said what if you don't open the door right now i'm gonna scream yeah and he opened the door and let her out and i said wrong you sure she's a hundred million percent i'll never forget his face that's the man who tried to rape me yeah i said [ __ ] you know what hold on a minute so being a religious man i said oh god did you send me on on on on on a works yeah or something like that further on in the trial the prosecution um wanted a character reference from the deceased man's people his family friends close ones and i think out of everyone they asked of these people his brother his younger brother he was young he was about 15 16 at the time maybe 17 you know what i mean yeah yeah he was smart you get me cool looking you and um he stood up in the box i mean very smart looking you man you know what all scruffy you get me just coming off the road like some ruffian or anything he had his shirt on and a tie down up properly and came rules were tight and i was like okay tidy looking black you and he was well spoken as well and i just didn't expect this in a million years i wouldn't have expected this but when he started speaking and they were questioning him on what happened um with that girl whenever he seen her before and how many times did you come to the house and he was genuine you know when someone's lying you know what someone's telling the truth and he was genuine he said y'all see her the first time she come and moved my brother to the yard we sat down and all of us my girlfriend was there and a couple of her friends and were drinking and smoking and music playing and social thing and then she left and then she came back the second time and then went in the bedroom i remember that yeah i don't know what happened in there i remember they come out of there after and whatever and obviously the prosecution and the barrister go into me say why did she look distressed when she come out and yeah i won't go into one of that but what he did say he said um because i asked him how was your brother what kind of a man was he what kind of man was he with women and that was the pivotal moment for me when he said well my brother he got a lot of baby mothers and um i used to say to him it's going to get you in problems and stuff like that but he didn't care and then he used to go to fun fairs as well and stuff and try and pick up all these young girls i used to tell him you got to stop that swear done yeah what young young girls young young girls okay really young girls he said that i stand to stop that but you know i mean that was just the way my bride i was okay and this was a big man as well you said didn't it yeah he was probably about like i said between 15 maybe 17 15 15 and 17 you understand but this he was well spoken i mean like oh oh yeah i'm sorry sorry sorry yeah yeah the guy the the the rapist yeah yeah he was a big man he was about 38 at the time he understands all what are you doing around fun face you know what i mean you didn't remember your flesh and blood is standing up in this court telling people that okay it's not wrong having a lot of baby mothers i don't know some people might differ i don't yeah it's another show in it but get me not culture you get me black people i don't know all types of people white black pink blue enough might have enough baby mothers i didn't really think that was okay a problem but when he went into the fun fair thing i could see what he was trying to say yeah he was trying to not basically say blatantly that my brother was a [ __ ] predator towards young women he'd done it respectfully yeah and said look because his whole family is probably judging him saying that i'm a man you're coming it's a womanizer yeah [Music] yeah yeah so for me yeah where were you talking about wherever how i feel at that point i felt like okay and i always refer to god for some reason and then i'll say god all right i can see what you're done yeah because at the time my life was a bit mad okay i had a few little beefs here and there had mine trying to shoot me down on wood green arrow do you get me yeah i'm saying i was in beast with man he came and i was coming to my yard i'm looking for man yeah just general you got me in the hood you know what i'm saying hood [ __ ] going on and i was moving mad i felt like raw i don't know where my life's going right now you know and then that happened in my dark and then i have to sit on for how many years yeah but over them years to get me grew up into a man yeah man and i see what the right thing is to do the right path you get me i realize to get me this is my talent music and that let me follow my music get a couple more skills get me get driving license this that and the other vocational non-vocational learn how to do two bricklaying and you know so i'm employable you know what i mean you made the best uh master my art you know what i mean and i made the best out of it man yeah tell us about prison then um do you remember your first day in prison your first night in prison yeah man horrible man the noises and i just thought this would have been felt a minute yeah window worrying yeah cause i saw a film before that yeah called scum just come you ever seen scum i think i've heard it oh my god it's an old old-school prison film set in the yeah and um these young boys in there get violated yeah you get me um by the uh the wardens or whatever and battered them so i used to think rawr prison might be like that and you hear stories about like screws beat man up and it's mad in jail and because if you've never been joe before all you know is what you see on tv and what you hear and you know what i mean yeah you're not beat up by screws it's true because i've seen it you get me you know what i'm saying i've got it with the screen you've gone with the screen my first night i was like what's going on but obviously damn time my first time also driving the fences in it but still i was thinking raw they want some racist thing like yeah you black bastard i'm coming back to you to show you's in charge you know what i mean so i was just i don't think i even slept bro until about i don't know when the sun starts coming up you know what i'm wondering like yeah it's getting blue now yeah all right cool that was my first night in joe yeah man i was like raw man this is mad i wonder what's going to happen when they open the door and then obviously do the induction and rotate here but um without glorifying joe when they did open the door and i saw them all i thought oh [ __ ] this is like children's home but more secure now you hit the mandom's head yeah a few people said that it's like children as well come on man there's weed the man of my brewing hooch what they're making alcohol is peak this is peak how am i going to keep the tv or the look you can wear it to the light yeah you work to the light in that yeah yeah yeah come on man then i started realizing right these prisoners have got some [ __ ] skills man yeah the [ __ ] prisoners come up with that yeah survival skills and all that yeah man so yeah man so i'm adjusted to prison kind of quick still yeah um what um why did you get why did you could you did you say you got starred up yeah but that's because of would you just turn to the offense because of this murder obviously they want you as high risk in it when you first start off and then they'll kind of lower your risk as the years go on you go through the system in it like a cat b cat c cat because why yos they don't have a because they they do i know i was bruised a long term or um elsbree's a cat is it is it classified a cat it's a high security a cat prisoner oh okay because i i know i've reclassified it since i've left there but at the time yeah yeah i do know it's long term for young offenders i know they do hold long terms and then there's another job that do like long term for younger families but i didn't know those categories like i had the convicts like that i don't which was like you know you got category a b and c i didn't know they did that because you know what i mean because then yeah i just yeah yeah so i think what it is with with with the ylys and stuff like that um you've got um them secure units type of thing you've got like felton she's got the young side that partridge and i think oh what's them that that young young cycled and then you've got the older side of them you know what i'm saying yeah kingfisher was one of them i think and then the younger side they've got uh what is it ah i forgot it's already [ __ ] they've got a younger side anyway you know what i'm saying and then after that you get me you've got elsewhere and i don't know what other joes are like it was but they all hold like um high-risk young offenders yeah up until 21. yeah so that was kind of like the katie for young offenders yeah okay yeah okay what was um what was your proudest moment in prison in the 17 years that you sir um get into open prison oh you got d cut you've got d cat yeah yeah that's a big achievement man because i don't know the way people tell it start telling you you know what i mean are you going to go over tariff you know what i mean no but i did kind of go over tariff but you know what i mean i didn't feel like i went over tariff as such you know i mean you went over by three years ago yeah yeah yeah so yeah i mean i've got a deca at a time where i thought like yes cool for me to have decaf because i was comfortable with my c cat anyway yeah i mean joel's mad you get institutionalized in there bro you get comfortable it's mad like you paint up your cell put nice rug down and all that and it's like it sounds mad amanda and joe or daniel know like you can't now this is myself in my yard you don't really want to move but you've got to do sideways moves anyway to progress and sometimes security will move you dst yeah and then when dst spin you and then your soul's upside down yeah and you take pride in it as well like when these two spit you like you're pissed because it's like yeah and even when certain when when you've patting up your soul you got cleaned up like the whole floor looks squeaky and that yeah and then certain man are coming into your cell touching things and that you do get you get institutionalized in it especially when it's years like it feels like your yard didn't it yeah that's right that's right it does you're good and then you just you know what i'm saying but yeah i get that because i was in a b cat and they wanted to move me to a c cat and then i was hoping to get d i never got a d cap but they wanted to move into a c current i just had a year left and i did like i had a yeah left and i'm thinking but i'm in b cap with a year left here like what's the point in going sea cattle i've done four years in a a and b catching i'm saying wow what's the point in going to the second and when you go to see is it different i don't know if don't know if it's the same for you but when you go from like the highest securities the dispersals or like the high securities and then you go to like a c cat or a d cat it's a different caliber or man if you're definitely definitely definitely when you go to them them um long-termer joel's like straight away like a lot of the men in there will be like to you oh there'll be none of that why why the avr and it's always like why why is there they get me what you know what i mean they don't like why i want it don't like that that young youngish [ __ ] you know like a man will get at you for playing your music after 10 o'clock on the way yeah yeah you're like raw you know like you're thinking of a bad boy but you're quickly realizing that you know what you live with these guys what are you gonna do keep fighting these guys every day and keep moving so and you know what for true yeah it's true that farmer i was the same first year i was like because if i used to have the biggest set on the wing like you have a massive set i'm saying the basic stereo yeah yeah then ones knock it off and then you're not knocking off and then they just shut off your electricity you know what i'm saying well i used to have a loud thing i used to beat my music and then when i remember i got a complaint like that but the way the brother approached me he was like bro i'm doing my prayers at this time yeah yeah can you please turn down the music and i thought at first i thought to myself is he trying to violate him to play i'm in my yard i played but then i thought about it because i was young as well but i thought about and i was like it's true like these men are doing life and they're living here as well here like by a certain time i should turn down the music the man am i trying to pray as well you know i might get really religious in that manner am i trying to pray my name are trying to watch their own tv but they can't do that because you're beating out your music and the wolves are hollow in it i mean so so yeah it is more of like a respect for when you in them places you you learn to respect each other more in it you know what i'm saying and you grow proper but then i think when you're in a while and everyone's just running around everyone's just doing [ __ ] for no reason yeah it's a bit different um what would you say the worst injury that you've seen or been in in jail [ __ ] you know the worst injury i've seen is a man basically get melt off me like everyone says dutch pot with the hot oil full satin that's mad i was going to say yeah you see a man get the dutch pot on hot oil and it's just it's just disgusting yeah big man screaming like that you're getting it he's trying and then on top of that chef man as well yeah [ __ ] you no get me but the worst injury i've been in as well was mad some madness happened to me when i was in [ __ ] the ville yeah over some misunderstanding some mute that wasn't right in his head and um i think he was in there for our case as well it's a madness happened bro and a man chef me and my [ __ ] neck fam oh he's chefs chef me in my neck he was mad have you ever seen chopper yeah you know when chopper yeah when he thinks no no he's he he he's in the um in the jail with his bridges they're in a little exercise thing together yeah and then he's breding comes up to him and chefs him yeah and then chopper goes what do you do that for me bloody i was just talking to y'all he's so casual like bloody all that yeah but the guy that shifts him starts going oh sorry chopper mate i don't know what a donald trump was like oh cool man don't worry about it don't worry about it [ __ ] hell mate give me a cigarette yeah it was like one of them situations because when the guy died he started again i'm sorry man what have i done like i'm sorry i didn't know i thought what the [ __ ] and i kind of understood it i knew the guy was off-key so i thought hold on a minute this is map at the time it just felt like a scratch but then obviously when i'm at hospital 23 [ __ ] stitches in my neck bro you get chopped or yeah chop slide in my neck bro so it was a mad thing so that i was like [ __ ] look at a dead like it missed my corrupt corrupted archery in it you know i mean um another injury i had was in um full saturn one used uh had a pole cutting one thing that you know in the fridge here you got them [ __ ] the um the shelves yeah but they got the metal on the minute the metal shelves yeah i think he had one of them so he's made it into a poke and like an ice pick they get me news this is the story's mad bros like me and this guy matsuki matsuki man my bro we had a little um clash she got me like that kind of garage kind of grime oh wrapping up a party there just finally get me for christmas in that underwing but you know what it started all from black history month yeah they gave us uh a mixing board a couple speakers a microphone yeah and i was like yeah that's you lot you get your little patties and that yeah and that's room to play your music in but don't play it too loud but anyway it started from there we were doing our team making mixtapes where we ran and he decided to have a clash of christmas yardies these are nothing i know that yeah so we had a big one to get me that yeah so um we had a little clash and then um in the clash when you i had problems with which is his bridging from his ends and burning him you get me um he must have used in one of his bars he was like yeah my mum was going to shift you but we told him to lie you and rotate here and then i retaliated with my man in a bad man because this happened to him in uh uh for um was it long lightened by rare tear tearing and that was it i thought it died yeah because um he also got boxed in his face and the man took his tech off of him yeah yeah yeah right yeah trust me i'll tell you after that he's got me don't mind he's from the end okay so anyway when i've done that and the mandemo knew about that as well they were like no tamping off walls and get me kicking off doors and that and my mom was really embarrassed so he carried feelings and put batshit in him they get me and cast him up and say retaliation you know because if that was me [Music] if that was me ooh gonzo gonzo if my man said that about me so he literally the next day he tried to shift me for that he hit me he yeah yeah the guy that i had the problem with not my bread you know i had the classroom if you get me so that was right there bro like yeah it was michael sitting on the bed and he's coming in the cell and i'm watching him he gets me standing there smoking a bird but he's got one underneath his trousers and he's tracking you know the great catsuit [Music] imagine the door's there yeah i'm just watching him from this side and then he's launching me so i've turned get me led back get me caught him with my foot and it was lucky i've done that when i caught him in my foot because that made the pole car going at a certain angle yeah are you telling me he's going to stab out my eye yeah okay what do i do today he tried to make me fetty wap he weren't going like that he had to lean back yeah yeah you understand so that was another mad thing still so those are the two uh worst um i was going to say um for someone else someone i spent 17 years yeah yeah i can't see no chops on your face obviously you just spoke about yeah i mean that's like a good thing to do only for cocoa but iron bio well especially yeah yeah so to come out there with no facial chops yeah you've got the thing there in that box yeah yeah that's nuts and the arcs i do i like to say this as well i do ask about like the injuries and that that guy ninja car you know for the use to ain't gonna join i think it might be a holiday campaign it does get sticky you know what i mean um man i've got rambos in there as well you know them big zombie things out of madness in the workshops yeah the workshops he's a madness man he's he needs to stop man he's stupid trust me he's over some dumb [ __ ] as well man yeah it's always the politics are always over um dumb [ __ ] you know i was going to say yeah um car you um you went joel quite what 2003 was it yeah and when did you come out i got in 2016 and then after that there's a couple of recalls in it oh okay yeah all right so 22 2003 to 2016. what was it like because when i was guy and joe on the earlier days yeah it was like it wasn't so like it was proper difficult to get your hands on a mash like a proper phone in it you know what i'm saying and then it would be like the lipstick remember the lipstick or like a nokia thing and everything like that what was it like getting like phoned for phones in that back in the day especially being in high security was it yeah it was a bit of a myth still you knew one or two man had them but obviously they're gonna boost you with a minute you know what i mean and obviously if you you know i mean you know man he knows a man you might get a use of it and that you know what i mean but for the majority of my time when i was in sea cat and deca i didn't really want the mash around me you know used in life yeah yeah because if you get bagged with that that's a setback that's gonna cost me two years yeah i'm not no [ __ ] that's you know i do i use it on soch you get me like and then they have a look at they call it keeping dog i'm gonna keep dog on the door and that's it you know what i'm saying use it put it away you know what i mean emergency times at night might have to make that call and rotate here to line up a pack or whatnot you know what i mean yeah but what i wanted to get into that question as well how did you hold on to your relationships kyle you mentioned that you had a girlfriend before yeah no she she faded out after the trial man yeah straight well yeah she faded up man but you know what i told her to go and do my own thing you know i said to her listen don't wait for me man live your life in it you know what to be honest with you i didn't want to tell her that but my bridge and said tell her to do that no but no no no for true you know for true you know because it's better i do that than finding out she's cheating on man and then i'm bugging out in there and that's what man said to me hey listen you bet you do that if you find that she's [ __ ] your bedroom or this that or the other she's probably most likely [ __ ] one of your buddies because she's been around you remember she's been around your circle it might be that so you have to accept that in your head she might be [ __ ] your bridging right now but but just power in it let her live her life what are you gonna do wait around for you for what 10 years which girl's going to wait for he kept me the d for 10 years it's not gonna happen so first of all she tried to be defensive like no no no no no no no and then two two i'm hearing nothing from her no posting all this no clothes get me answering the phone get me no visits getting booked okay cool do your thing bad i would give you that same advice though but i've done don't worry i've got my brothers that are doing life here that they've got their girl and do you know what i'm saying but the rich no is when you're in that situation the reality is just from a man outside of the situation looking in the realities bro you're doing life i'm talking about man doing big ones like you know 28 30's and that that and she bob the thing to i think the thing to tell your girl is like eva do your thing cut but don't let me know what you're doing here but right if i shout you pick up the phone yeah you know i'm saying maybe maybe uh send a letter here and there you know i'm saying that like most men that i got long birds that's got a girl like it's like of course then these girls are not just sitting sitting down doing nothing here so it's like right come visit once a month you see what try to cut you that's the difference between a man and a boy you know you see to be a real man you have to accept it in your chest you know your girl might be getting at the [ __ ] but you know what one day when you get out that's your [ __ ] still you get me but think about if you never broke break her virginity that was a you know you gave me she wasn't your [ __ ] before that anyway so if you can accept that this girl get me had sex before you yeah she's gonna get me and you're in jail she's gonna have the same sort of thing you have to accept it like but she's a good person so take the sex out of the equation i still want her in my circle yeah yeah yeah you get me but you have to be mature and strong enough to do that and if that you and the gal ain't like that then you get me it's gonna fade out it's gone in it and it's difficult as well when like you said like you might just be able to use the phone during search or whatever like you know like my time bro i was just like i used to just have my mash all the time if i'm like you know i said i'll pull it away when it's time when i if i had a bad feeling or like i just have a good spot for anyway so if they come yeah you know what i'm saying but like yeah i used to hold on to my relationships like that but if you're just like sending letters and then during soul you get out for an hour a day two hours a day you're not really yeah but be honest though sometimes with that match when you're chatting to your chick yeah you want to smash it up in it do you know what but you know that they see the girl that i'm with now she she held down like a like a yeah yeah and a half of my last year and a half of my birthday getting but i was with someone before that year and they used to give me like they used to do she used to do weird things like she's not picking up and it's like you know what i'm saying like she's not picking up the phone and then she she'll pick up hours later telling me her phone's on it was on silent but then it's constantly on so then but i used to go mine that like but then you know when you're in jail like you you go mad like you you you're saying right i was going to get myself back you know what i'm saying so then but that girl here might allow that still but the girl that i'm with now like she she she she was proper the timetable everything was proper like she went bad when man went but did it basically everything was pattern kind of thing so i didn't really watching the same tv programs yeah let's watch this series and binge it together the phone goes away yours is different and it uses just hold on i put the phone away because that's you see them times that's when they can get you like when you're soldier you can take it out that's right so yeah just to put the phone away and then certain times of the night i'll be like it's cool let me take the phone out now then we can go in it but yeah it must have been hard to um maintain a relationship especially with no phone but what about afterwards did you have little girlfriends here in there you know what through joe i had one or two female officers get me two screw kicks oh yeah two screws yeah the little team did you kept me in that yeah so you know i mean that helped pass the time [Laughter] yeah one or two help past the time man and then um obviously i was like to the man name yo i mean you hit me i gotta ask your old friend to you get me a double v you know what i'm really there there and just get like i'm just going to entertain you yeah yeah yeah so i had a few of them you know i mean that came and went and yeah and in 2010 um i met my baby mother yeah so because when i got out the first time in 2016 i was at for nine months i was living with my baby mother she had our first year and then obviously i went back to jail and i recall and then yeah um so yeah over the years i think it ended up being my baby mother yeah i mean joel's mad like that because when you do a long time and you find someone that's being genuine at the time of you you kind of latch on to that i believe it or not man they're vulnerable in jail now yeah 100 you know what i'm saying in the sense of relationship with gal yeah you get me the the power shift changes it changes again and then it's beef though because you get me she had the power when you was in jail now you're you yeah you're gaining the power but you don't like it dynamics are changing dynamic yeah it's political random no yeah i think yeah but i think a hundred percent though i think yeah will more entertain your [ __ ] when you're in jail rather than your bread dreams from road like yeah like galway and the postals or whatever like you know i mean if they're with you they're kind of with you like you know what i'm saying girls have just got that in them that's just what i know that's my pers personal experience but a lot of man that man's been in jail would they all say the same thing that everyone's got even if it's not that gal it could just be some any girl but she's there writing the letters sending the pictures the postals or whatever or handling your bank account or whatever is going on like it's usually getting that dude like mine are just doing their own thing outside you know yeah yeah and it's a bit um but yeah what i want to ask is well what um what did you get recalled for quickly um not staying at the interest i was supposed to man and then um and he ended up having to do what it was yours yeah because it was more it's a bit more complicated than that as one baby mother was like oh we've been um having arguments and he's not been staying there he's staying at his mom's house and you know i mean she was like i think you should be calling and we had a fight and six months ago you know i mean we had a fighters and my probation was like what i mean they told me none of this all right then cool really cool that was my probation worker being racist and i think bias you know what i'm saying and just being a genuine prick in it you know what i'm saying um and then it was mad the second recall was for trying to get my clothes from my baby mother's yard man she just [ __ ] out when i went there i went there with my auntie and my sister trying the camera recording right aren't he recording it so she tries to say anything come back out we've got the evidence did it work it didn't work you went mad my probation was like well she said that you done this and that and then you know what i'm saying you you went there and you wasn't invited and it was like i was living there it was my yard didn't it yeah baby [ __ ] it was calm for me to just go there and yeah but the way it got spun you know what i mean and it's probation and their power that they have you know i mean they can really call you like that yeah and i'm saying and then say all right then even though we know about what happened now and rotate here and you still gotta go for a parole board yeah i mean and that's gonna cost you this amount of time and by the way there's a backlog so um while you're waiting do you want to do a course yeah yeah i'm supposed to be here i'm not hearing no charges i'm only here because you want to recall me enough yeah i got no police conviction you know for none of these recalls you know hope for them just nfa okay we know what it's a possible junior baby mother but they just want you behind we ain't got no qualms with you but you know what what probation do what pervasion do is [ __ ] you when it happens you know probation have got too much power to recall man for stupidness when they can just deal with the situation on the road on on top of that like what people might not know because you even though you only did well you did 17 years total yeah but only because even though you did was it 12 13 years um for the live stream yeah like say the livestock was like 12 years your license is for life even right now yeah yeah if like if if you get back with a zoo or something they can they can drag you back you know what i'm saying the rest of your life basically yeah they can [ __ ] with man so i make sure i move you get me super on point yeah and i'm saying all the time 24 7. you know what i mean no slipping out here man i ain't playing that [ __ ] so yeah what so for the 17 years that you spent inside yeah what would you say was your biggest lesson like what did you learn from what would you say the most valuable thing that you learn in them 17 years assess things thoroughly before you act on them yeah before you activate yeah man you have to assess things finally man and weigh up the consequences of calculated risk calculate the risk that's it man you have to yeah you have to because this is your life out here man you only get one of these you get me so it's either like everyone says typically yeah i've end up in jail you're going to be dead yeah so what do you want to do spend a long time in jail or be dead or just be out here in it and enjoy your life in it right so that's what i learned man you get me man i have to be super calculated and assess everything you know what i'm saying that it's a mad way to live because sometimes you just want to live freestyle and like live every minute always comes in it's sort of like wing it okay yeah i'm saying but you can't no in my situation you have to look at everything i got to think about what my bridges got on him when he's getting in my car yeah yeah get me 100 yeah what is he on and what's going on for him lately yeah that mean i'm asking my bridge you're like why go on lady you're all right yeah what ever seen chris on the road yeah if he's gonna take something and get him by the chopped me down the road yeah no problem but yeah everything calm down there no i mean like i want to pull over i'm involved in something straight away with you because i'm not eating i'm not going to run off and leave you don't put me in a situation like that where you think yeah who's going to back me anyway [ __ ] it that's true some people forget to forget to realize that i've done 17 years so they're talking to me out here like i've just been at it and they're like oh [ __ ] you know oh i forgot you know yeah i keep forgetting yeah you miss me she goes over a lot of people's head because i'm just normal in it i'm just calm you think i'm just an everyday guy that's just being out here but i ain't yeah that's being in the cave yeah yeah and that's that's i respect that as well to come out after such a long time and still have your head on your shoulders and still be making sense but that's what i was going to get onto you next what what are you doing with yourself now obviously to keep out of the [ __ ] now what are you doing with yourself music you know music music music bro um [Music] have you got any links in that that you want to show um i'm going to put everything in the description mmt music media trends that's my boy there um you can get me on insta youtube i've got a channel up on that um all the other platforms spotify everything come on all major platforms i've got a tune out called beam for it all i've got another one coming out called um in marine life go on my ig you'll see a few freestyles on there and that and i'm uploading one tonight as well yeah yeah yeah cold all of that is going to be in the description been busy for you guys to um go and run it up you get me um lastly um what advice would you have for the youths nowadays um that could be getting themselves into trouble like what advice would you have for them and then what advice would you probably give to your younger self before you caught that well for the young man i'm out there i'd say obviously just think first in it man and um prioritize yourself and your family man you get me first man look at me and obviously your family might be the man a minute you get me at the time when i did my um you get me my family was my brother you get me so you know i mean that's what i prioritize but you let me just have to just think about everything properly man and yeah i mean know what you're doing man you know what i mean if you're ready to accept the consequences of your action and live with that then that's what you're doing it but obviously if there's another avenue you can go down to get me and keep yourself uh air and safe and keep all your family in that safe and be calm and choose the karma option man get me gel shitty yeah i can have fun in there and the madden's in there and all that they're shitty but it's but you see even that fun year it's like making the best out of a bad situation trust me it's not fun like it don't matter how many make it look here it's not actually fun it's not it's not it's just making it it's a sad thing it's a sad thing man i'm making fun out of sadness to get me because there's nothing else to do if you don't have a laugh in there you get me on the wing and that you're just going to end up bugging out on the screws or you get me bugging out on each other or end up in some type of serious depression and that's all that's why men have a laugh in jail and all that but that's not the place to be man you know i'm saying you gotta smell people's [ __ ] and you know what i'm saying and dirty showers and rotten cells cockroaches and and rats and mice and then pidgin [ __ ] on your window and you know what i'm saying you've got mine trying to chop you in there i'm trying to chop you you know what i'm saying in that and you gotta live on the wing you get me with these guys that are trying to kill you and all that and then you move to our next swing the same thing's happening they just don't stop that's that's no life to live man that's dead man yeah big advice my big respect my brother um yeah but i think that was everything still that was a proper that was a good one i think everyone should leave in the comments what they think what would you do in that situation you know like what would you do in that situation if someone raped someone that you was close to what would you do or do you feel like you did the right thing i do you know i mean i feel like you know i probably would have done the same thing had i been in that situation but yeah big respect for coming on respect man yeah you can get me on um the ig that's official underscore letter o one free yeah on all the platforms i'm about mmt respect sp yeah come on my mother yeah i'm gonna put all of that in the description anyway so everyone's gonna be able to just click it and this you get me but yeah this was a good one this is an interesting one delinquent nation prison diaries delinquent nation turn up time

Channel: Delinquent Nation

Views: 82,032

Keywords: Hmp, prison stories, vigilante

Id: P95VPrPF8Uk

Length: 90min 57sec (5457 seconds)

Published: Mon Jun 21 2021