Pregnant Mother Murdered For Her Unborn Baby

Bobby just in it was a 23 year old woman that was murdered in 2004 for one reason and one reason only she was eight months pregnant and someone wanted to steal her baby directly from her womb and Bobby had to die in the process so today's video is going to be another solved True Crime case and this is quite a harrowing one today we're going to be talking about the case of Bobby Joe Stinnett but quickly before we get into the case I do just want to thank our sponsor for making this video possible establish titles if you've got birthdays coming up or you need like Christmas present ideas listen up because I think this is a really cool gift so established titles basically let me explain is based on an old Scottish custom where anyone that owned a patch of land would be referred to as a lord or a lady established titles allows you to purchase as little as one square foot of dedicated land so that you can officially be a lord or a lady so you are currently looking at lady Eleanor Neil I have my own patch of land I have a certificate to prove my new title you'll get a certificate too I put mine up in my bedroom which I don't know is that embarrassing no I'm proud of it I'm proud of it and now that you're officially a lord or a lady you can put that title on Different official documents like credit cards or plane tickets everyone's patch of land that they will receive is in Scotland and they will send you your unique plot number so that you can go online and see exactly where your little patch of land that you own is another thing I love about established titles is how dedicated they are to environmental causes first of all they plant a tree with every order that they receive which I think is amazing and they also work with two Charities called one tree planted and trees for the future and established titles are very kindly giving you guys a discount when you use my code at checkout Eleanor Neal all one word you will get 10 off your order just go to establishtitles.com forward slash Eleanor Neal the link is down below in the description and become a lord or lady with me I'm I'm buzzing thanks again to established titles for sponsoring this video now before we get into it I do just want to give my usual disclaimer that I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone that I talk about in this video this video is for educational purposes and everything that I'm about to say is just information that I have found on the internet and I'm compiling into one video there are a lot of content warnings for this case this is a very very heavy case so listen to the following list carefully and if there is anything that you really don't want to hear about in this list feel free to click out this video and hopefully I'll get to see you some other time with a different video but like I said listen closely to this because there's a lot so this video is going to have themes of sexual abuse rape the sexual abuse of a child more specifically alcohol abuse fast prostitution kidnapping fetal alcohol syndrome animal abuse mental illness including depression PTSD BPD and pseudoscisis if I've pronounced that right a huge list and like I said click out now if you don't want to hear about any of that that being said let's get straight into the case Bobby just in it was born on December 4th 1981 in Missouri USA she lived with her mum and her dad in a very small town called Skidmore and when I say small I mean tiny like there was only a few hundred people there and there was really not much else there was like nothing they didn't even have like big shops there they had to travel out of town if they wanted groceries and stuff but it was a lovely lovely place from what I've read online because it was so small the community feel was so strong it felt like just a massive group of friends living together everyone knew everyone and helped each other so it was a lovely place for Bobby to grow up and she was a very very happy child she had a very happy childhood apparently she was like the smileiest little kid you've ever seen she was a proper ray of sunshine always positive she was a little bit shy especially with people that she didn't know but once Bobby got to know someone she was she was a hoot she was she seemed like a really energetic like bouncing off the walls kind of little kid and she was known to be very very nurturing and caring and kind she had just this really like like sweet soft quality to her she was she was a proper Softee and this came out in so many different ways she was super super affectionate with her family she loved animals she always wanted to be caring for Animals she just had a lot of love to give did this little girl when Bobby moved up to high school she met a boy called Zeb and immediately she had a huge crush on him and good news Zeb had a crush on her too the two of them flirted they ended up getting into a relationship that they stayed in for the rest of their time in school and shortly after graduating the two of them got married they got their own place together they were just super excited to be spending the rest of their lives together they both went out and got their first jobs they were they were starting to make it in the world together by each other's side the two of them really really loved dogs this was something that they bonded over this was something that they knew they wanted for their family they knew they wanted loads of dogs specifically Rat Terriers that was their breed that they they were just obsessed with Rat Terriers so when they they moved out they did they adopted their own Rat Terriers I don't know how many they at least had two because they planned on breeding them they planned on you know encouraging them to make puppies in fact they made this breeding at like a little small business for them to run from their home they would advertise the puppy litters online and get people to come and buy them both of them ran the business together but as far as I'm aware Bobby Joe kind of had a lead role in it she went and made an account on a foreign like a dog breed a forum and she'd made an account specifically on the rat terrier part of the Forum called rata chatter I love that I think that's really funny so she was talking on this whole dog breed of forum but specifically in the rat terrier one because that's that's the kind of dog that she had the conversation was mainly revolving around Rat Terriers and the new puppies but every now and again users on this website would kind of swerve off topic and talk about their lives and they all kind of got to know each other they all made friends ish like internet friends anywhere through these ballrooms and they'd ask for updates on each other's lives when they saw each other posting the conversation was mainly about dogs but you know it was just it was just people being nice to each other as well and Bobby was having a great time the breeding business was doing pretty well and she was finding out loads of information about Rat Terriers online because she was so so into this breed they wanted to like breed them full time I believe so yeah everything was going well they both had jobs and then they had this breeding business and everything was going great and then things got even better in 2004 when Bobby Joe found out that she was pregnant and the two of them were absolutely elated they found out that they were having a baby girl and they were just so excited to start their family all of their family were super excited as well to have a new baby when Bobby was about halfway through her pregnancy she decided to leave work I I think it was maternity leave I think she was going back but she decided to kind of like finish her work early so that she could come home and do the breeding business at home during the day while she she was on maternity leave it worked out great because they'd actually just had another litter of rat terrier puppies so it was perfect Bobby could have more time off work more time to be able to message potential customers about the puppies so in December of 2004 Bobby Joe is eight months pregnant and she's also just turned 23 around this time as well she was pursing in ratachata saying that her puppies had just had a new litter well her dog's not the puppies her dogs had had puppies and they were available for sale she was saying she was happy to have people round at her house to come and visit the puppies during the day because she was pregnant she was on maternity leave so she was free anytime December 16 2004 was the same as any other day Zeb went off to work as he did every single day and Bobby just stayed home you know doing the rap rap the rat terrier business and nearly said the rap business the rat terrier business there were dogs you know she was just chilling at home at this point all her family knew that she was on maternity leave so they would come and visit her at different times just so that she was wasn't lonely during the day while Zeb was at work so that afternoon Bobby Joe's mother Becky decides that she's gonna drop by the house and just just sit and have a drink with her daughter you know catch up it's kind of a surprise visit so she goes down to the house knocks on the door and no one's answering I believe the door was unlocked so her mother just kind of tried the door and it it opened so she walked in and she called Bobby's name as she did to alert her that it was only her mother walking and it wasn't like an intruder but as Becky entered the home she found the most horrifying scene her own daughter was laying on the floor in front of her obviously already dead and her body was just covered in blood and it was clear where all of this Blood was coming from as well her mother said it looked as if her stomach had exploded her mother called for police and an ambulance as quick as she possibly could they rushed down to the scene but as soon as paramedics got to work on Bobby Joe they realized that there was no chance they'd be able to revive her and so she was transported to house at all and pronounced dead but what was even more horrifying her baby was gone her unborn baby that was still inside her womb was stolen it was missing and her autopsy found that she'd actually been alive when this huge wound was made on her stomach to literally cut her baby out of her belly they think she was alive she might have possibly been unconscious but she regained Consciousness at some point so she was alive unconscious with this huge wound in her stomach so now police had one of the most brutal and unique cases they have ever come across this is a young woman that was found murdered and mutilated in her own home and her baby is stolen there is a missing baby an abducted baby someone had physically taken this baby and so the murder investigation was semi-separate to the missing person's investigation because Bobby Joe was eight months pregnant and at eight months your baby has quite a good chance of surviving being born even though it is a bit premature that being said they don't know how well this this DIY at-home C-section was done on Bobby Joe so they didn't know if the baby had health complications this baby could have survived this but there was a chance that it might not there was a chance that this baby might need urgent medical attention in order to survive the birth that they'd had so police knew they needed to find this baby fast there was a debate within the police force on whether they should send out an amber alert for this baby because if you're unaware an amber alert is the system in America for when a child goes missing everyone in that area will get like a text on their phone a notification of some sort basically saying this child is missing this is what they look like this is the circumstance we believe is going on you know maybe this is a car that was seen just any information that police have is immediately sent out to everyone so that everyone is aware and they can be on the lookout for this Child Problem being with this case it was an unborn baby no one knows what this baby looks like because it has literally been cut from its mother's womb so there's no way for police to be able to describe this newborn baby and besides all newborn babies kind of look the same so all they could really say is newborn baby this case was just so different to anything they'd ever experienced before and so some people on the police bus were not entirely on board with sending out an amber alert for an unborn but now born baby luckily the other police managed to persuade them to send out the Amber Alert anywhere that literally just said newborn baby and luckily one of the neighbors that lived near Bobby Joe had noticed a red Toyota Corolla parked outside her house earlier that day presumably it must have belonged to her attacker it must have because the neighbor had never seen a red Toyota Corolla outside their house before ever so they knew it wasn't friends or family so that was put on the Amber Alert as well and that was literally it literally all they had was new on baby red Toyota Corolla and that's all that people could be on the lookout for so police waited for any potential leads to come in from that Amber Alert as the crime scene was searched and this is where all the Gory details start to piece together so if you remember I said when they did the autopsy they believed that Bobby was alive when her stomach was cut open they think she could have been unconscious but then that she regained Consciousness once she had the wound now the reason they think this is because of blood evidence at the scene Bobby Joe had blood all over the bottoms of her feet although she was found laying down so this suggests that she had been at one point stood up in her own blood standing in her blood and her blood was even found on her under her toenails so she was stood like in a puddle of it or splashed in it and they believed that there was a struggle in this hallway because there were smears of blood there were like swells in the blood where people's feet had like slipped so they knew that there'd been a struggle with the attacker she'd fought for her life as as best as she could and there were some other pieces of evidence that indicated a struggle um Bobby's fingers were found with long strands of blonde hair intertwined between them as if she'd been like pulling someone's hair and this gave them quite good information that her attacker potentially had long blonde hair Bobby Joe was brunette so of course these hairs weren't her own and there was enough of them wrapped between her fingers that it was significant like she this definitely must have been her attack as her but one thing that paramedics just could not work out was how much of the attack Bobby Joe was conscious or unconscious for they don't know if she'd passed out for like a split second or a few seconds or if she'd been out cold for like 10 minutes and then regained Consciousness they really don't know but the reason they know that she'd passed out by the way I forgot to explain this the reason they know she passed out was because she had very clear strangulation marks around her neck mostly around the front of her neck so they think that she'd actually been strong angled with a rope from behind her attacker had wrapped it around her neck and just pulled it they think the attacker strangled Bobby Joe until she passed out maybe the attacker thought they'd strangled her to death or maybe they they knew they'd just made her unconscious either way now Bobby Joe had fallen to the ground and that was when this DIY C-section took place which by the way was done with one of her own kitchen knives the attacker had gone into the kitchen and picked which one of Bobby Joe's or knives they were gonna use to cut her baby out of her stomach I know that stomach is incorrect biological terminology but you know what I meant by that so one thing that police found quite interesting about this case was that the front door was unlocked there were no signs of forced entry so it appeared that Bobby Joe's attacker had gotten in the house quite easily maybe they'd let themselves in like maybe the door was unlocked and they let themselves in or maybe Bobby Joe unlocked the door for them and welcomed them into her home perhaps that same day that Bobby Joe's body was discovered new of her murder and the kidnap of her unborn child started spreading like wildfire it was on every News Channel it was all over the internet and it made its way back to her rata chatter Forum that she had some good friends on by now and everyone was so so devastated to hear this news not only because this was a friend that they'd lost like they were feeling this this loss and this grief but they were also just so upset because Bobby Joe seemed so excited about her pregnancy she was so excited to meet her baby girl she was so excited to have a family with Zeb and now it was all gone and all of her friends saw how much that meant to her she was so close to having that and someone had just ripped away every chance that she had to have that so people in this ratata forum are posting their condolences and grieving messages they're going back through their old messages with Bobby Joe and reading them and that was when one user on the website noticed something quite interesting in the public comments of one of the posts on rata chatter Bobby Joe was advertising her new litter of puppies and in the comments underneath that she had planned to meet up with a potential buyer on the day of her murder the user that was interested in coming to see the rat terrier puppies was named Darlene Fisher her username was Fisher for kids and yeah this this interaction didn't seem weird it didn't seem suspicious it was just two women discussing the potential purchase of a puppy but what was odd was the timing it just so happened to have been planned on the day that Bobby Joe was murdered and so this other user that saw this conversation decided to turn it into police because well obviously that could be a really important lead so one of the first things that police did was seize every single one of Bobby Joe's Electronics her phone her laptop and looked through every single conversation that she had had with this Darlene woman police found all the messages and they seemed pretty normal they were just talking about buying a puppy and they'd agreed on a time and a date which was the day that she was murdered Bobby had given her the full exact address of her home and if this was the case then that means that Bobby Joe would have voluntarily let this woman into her house would have unlocked the door for her and welcomed her in so that explains why there would be no signs of fast entry if this woman is responsible so now it's all lining up for police they know that they need to track down this Darlene fisher woman and so the next thing they do is try and track her IP address which was three hours away in Kansas and immediately this was kind of odd to police because in the messages between Bobby Joe and Darlene Fisher when they'd been planning to meet up to to talk about the dogs Darlene was saying oh that's great I only live 30 minutes away from your address but this IP address is about three hours away police actually found out quite a bit of information about Darlene Fisher just from the messages that she and Bobby had been sending between each other that they found out that Darlene was also pregnant and she was around the same length of time along as Bobby was they were both about eight months actually I think Darlene had her due date just before Bobbies but Darlene had quite a traumatizing pregnancy she'd been telling Bobby that she was pregnant with twins but one of them had actually passed away a couple of months prior as well so she'd been carrying one of her deceased children in her belly she had to carry it to full term with the other child she couldn't give birth to the deceased one and and keep the living one in there so she just had to keep them both in there until her dude when she would finally give birth to one living child and one dead child I can't imagine how traumatizing that is to to have prepared yourself to have two babies and to be over the moon and then for one of them to die inside you and for you to have to continue to carry that around for months I mean you wouldn't really be able to be happy about about the other child at that point would you apparently it had been a huge huge audio for Darlene to go through however some of the rata chatter users had their suspicions about well all of it but mainly about whether Darlene was even pregnant at all because when she would post pictures on rata chatter with her like holding the dogs or at these different dog shows she never seemed to look any different her belly wasn't growing she just I don't know where were the babies and you're pregnant with twins as well like Charlie her bump would be pretty big none of them ever really mentioned anything though none of them like called her out on it mainly because she'd been posting about losing one of her children no one wanted to be that guy that's like hi grieving devastated mother I think you're lying I don't think you're even pregnant no one wanted to no one like it's not worth it no one wanted to further upset this woman that says she's lost her baby so everyone just kind of took her word for it and yeah no one no one said anything no one asked her but now that police were finding this out it just made everything seem even more weird and they felt like they were honestly on the right tracks this seemed like quite the story and so they managed to look at the exact place in Kansas where her IP address was being used from and they went down to that address to go and speak to miss Darlene Fisher when police arrived at this address they immediately saw parked in the driveway a red Toyota Corolla the exact same type of car that was seen parked outside Bobby just in its house on the day that she was murdered was now parked outside this other address where they believed the suspect lives so police stormed inside that house to find a woman presumably Darlene Fisher sitting on the sofa in the living room with a newborn baby cradled in her arms so police obviously asked her whose baby is that and she said it's mine I give birth to it a couple of days ago she said it was a baby girl called Abigail but police had good reason to believe that this was Bobby just in its baby and so they took the baby off her arrested this woman that they believed to be Darlene Fisher and they he sent this baby to the nearest hospital to be checked over the baby seemed to be completely happy and healthy it had a little cut on its face I think like on its eyelid other than that totally healthy totally fine they were gonna keep the baby in the hospital for a little while just so that they could continue to check it and monitor how everything was going but seemed fine meanwhile police had got Darlene Fisher back to the police station and that was when they realized that of course Darlene Fisher doesn't exist that was a fake name used by this woman Lisa Marie Montgomery but Lisa insisted that even though she used a fake name online everything else about her story and about her child that they'd just taken off her was true she said that she had been pregnant with twins she lost one of them and that was the remaining one her baby girl that she'd given birth to a few days prior she said that all of that was still true she just used a fake name online but police were skeptical about Lisa Montgomery I mean of course all the previous evidence that they'd collect still stands the red Toyota Corolla was still packed outside Bobby Joe's house on the day she was murdered and even worse actually now they know that Lisa Montgomery used a fake name to go and purchase those puppies that seemed odd why do you need a fake name on a on a dog breeding discussion forum like that was like one of the last things you'd need a suit and info so police were listening to Lisa tell this story about how she'd actually given birth to this baby girl a couple of days ago and they just felt like it was a cover story everything just seemed a little bit odd and so police started digging into it starting with Lisa's husband Kevin they wanted to know what he thought about about the delivery of the child he said that he was at work that day when he got a text from his wife Lisa letting him know that she had gone into labor she'd gone into like surprise labor she'd just been out shopping one day her water's broken in the store and so she just like took herself off to the nearest women's center and gave birth to this baby girl the next time he heard from Lisa it was a considerable amount of time later and she told him that she was at a fish restaurant along John Silver's is that what it's called like a fish and chip place I think she was at a Long John Silver's restaurant with their newborn baby and she wanted him to come pick her up why are you not at the hospital still why she's taking a newborn baby straight from the hospital straight to a fish and chip shop so anyway um Kevin Montgomery goes and picks up their two teenage Sons I think they're Lisa's sons from a previous relationship goes and picks up these two teenage boys anywhere and takes them to Long John Silver's to go and meet their new little sister so yeah everyone's everyone's gassed about this baby anyway everyone's really excited um they all believe that this is Lisa's baby they believe that this is a new addition to the family Kevin said that they spent the rest of the night on the 16th of December just driving to every family's house every friend's house showing them the new baby letting them meet their new baby girl because they were over the moon and everyone else was over the moon as well so police pointed out to Kevin that he didn't actually witness the birth of this baby and he said no you're right I didn't I wasn't there when this baby was born so I can't say for sure that it came out of my wife but he wholeheartedly believed his wife when she said that it was theirs he had no reason to not believe her I mean other than the fact that she wasn't really growing but I don't know maybe she could have just been a not much of a shower maybe she and apparently she wore baggy clothes quite a lot throughout the pregnancy so I don't know for some reason he did believe her though and so did the Sons that everyone did literally everyone did so anyway at this point in time police have Lisa Montgomery in an interrogation room and they start just confronting her with every piece of evidence that they had like your car was literally outside the crime scene at the time of the murder and she's looking at all this evidence and she can't fight it any longer and she just cracks and confesses to everything she confessed to tricking Bobby jar to attacking her to murdering her to stealing her baby directly from her womb performing this DIY at home Caesarean section on this unconscious woman stealing the baby and then pretending like it was hers to everyone even to her own husband he believed that this was his child sir before we go into Lisa Montgomery's version of events and what she told police and the prior planning and everything that went into this Sinister plan let's talk a little bit more about who Lisa Montgomery was because I think you need to know quite a bit about her past to understand her in this case notice I said understand not defend I don't want this to sound like I'm defending her at all but sometimes murderers do have very sad lives and I think it's important to to discuss them and to speak about potential issues that might arise from their childhood so let's go born on February 27 1968 8. Lisa had a hard life right from the off her mother was addicted to alcohol and she never stopped drinking all the way through the pregnancy she was drinking heavily and so when Lisa was born she had a lot of complications due to her mother's drinking she had fetal alcohol syndrome which is usually characterized by a specific facial features I'll put a diagram on screen right now a lot of kids that are born with fetal alcohol syndrome tend to look alike because they have a lot of these features and in some severe cases like in the case of Lisa Montgomery's hers was very very severe it can leave the children with a level of brain damage in Lisa's case she suffered with communication and speech issues as well as like learning issues and memory loss in school so school was really really hard for her yeah like I said it was it was an incredibly severe case of fetal alcohol syndrome and it affected her for the rest of her life she always had these communication speech memory learning problems they were incurable so immediately as soon as she was born there's things that Lisa Montgomery is going to have to deal with in her life and on top of these medical issues that Lisa had she also faced an incredibly abusive childhood at the hands of both her mum and her dad they would do some awful awful things to Lisa as punishment they would whip her they would put tape over her mouth so she couldn't talk or breathe they would strip her naked and lock her out of the house like outside in all these like harsh weathers they would make her take ice cold showers they did all sorts of awful awful things and actually I think Lisa had a couple of siblings or step siblings actually um and at one point her mother did this is one of the most awful things her mother ever did she sat all the kids down in the living room and I think she was already angry at something else at this point in time her mother was angry quite a lot um she sat all the kids down in the living room went and got a shovel and the family dog brought the dog into the living room and forced all of the children to watch as she beat the dog to death she murdered the family dog in front of all these very very young children and forced them to watch it at this point Lisa is not even 10 years old I don't know how old she was I want to say maybe about six at this point in time and then when Lisa was around 9 or 10 years old her mother and father divorced and her mother very quickly found a new man but when her new stepfather moved in with them he very quickly began sexually abusing Lisa Montgomery he would regularly take her out to the Caravan that was parked in the back garden and he would rape her repeatedly Lisa was so obviously distressed by all of this abuse that she was facing that at the age of 11 11 she turned to alcohol to try to soothe the pain that she was feeling she became an alcoholic before she was even a teenager so this abuse continued for a couple of years and then her step father decided to get his friends involved he would invite his grown adult friends round to the Caravan to take turns raping his stepdaughter and what was even worse he actually started charging them money for it they were making money well actually I don't even think it was him that was asking for the money I think it was Lisa's mother her own mother knew that this was going on knew that her husband had been raping her daughter for years and now he was getting all his friends involved and she didn't actually care she didn't care to save her daughter or to stop this all she cared about was well they can't do it for free let's charge them for it how sick and twisted is that I honestly haven't heard anything like this in quite a while we haven't covered anything so heinous and these men wouldn't just rape Lisa it wasn't just forced prostitution these men would also beat her they would tie her up they would torture her they would urinate on her they would force her to eat different things like this was torture finally after three long years of this abuse when Lisa was aged 14 she finally got up the courage to go and tell her mother what was going on and Paul Lisa didn't know that her mum had been in on it the whole time she had no idea that her mother knew she was probably thinking well if my mum knew she would save me right she had no idea that her mother had been collecting money from her rapists in order for them to do this to her so yeah Lisa went to her mother on this particular day thinking that this was going to be the end thinking that her mum was gonna save her she went and broke down to her mum told her everything she was sobbing and then her mother pulled out a gun pointed it at Lisa and told her not to tell anyone what she had just said or she would kill her she was not allowed to tell anyone what was going on at home and so she didn't well she kept it to herself for a little while but towards the end she was thinking well really how bad could it be if they did kill me like they I either tell someone and I managed to escape or I tell someone and they kill me either way it's better than what she was going through at that point in time and So Lisa decides to try and tell a couple more people so she mentioned it but I don't think she really got into detail and I don't think some people believed her she even mentioned it to one of her cousins who worked in law enforcement and nothing was ever done about it all these people that she told I say all these people I think it was like two or maybe three more other than her mum but no one ever did anything and the abuse just continued finally about a year later when Lisa was 15 years old her mother divorced her stepfather and Lisa thought that the constant sexual abuse would finally be over if he wasn't around there was no one to to prostitute her out like that but even though the actual acts of sexual abuse were temporarily over the toll that they had taken on Lisa Montgomery's mental state it was awful this girl was left with severe severe PTSD like I said she was an alcoholic to deal with it since the age of 11 she had been an alcoholic for years now and just when Lisa thought that she was safe her mom got a new husband and the exact same thing happened again and this time I think it was Lisa's mother that suggested this to her partner she must have brought it up saying oh we did this before me and my ex did this with my daughter if you want to set it up again with me let's start up a prostitution service so they did it was all set up again and her new stepdad started bringing new men around it was the exact same torture that she'd always been subjected to and this constant abuse of Lisa Montgomery had really taken a toll on her just as a person as as a student she would turn up to school her grids were horrific she looked horrific I mean I don't mean that in a mean way but she'd stopped showering she'd stopped brushing her hair she smelled really bad her clothes were dirty and ripped and and didn't fit her she barely had any friends she could barely socialize with anyone she was so anxious and shy she was almost mute and so at first teachers thought the best solution to this would be to transfer her to like a special educational needs school but nothing changed and so that told teachers that the problem must be at home with Lisa Montgomery it wasn't her schooling that was the issue and actually a few of the teachers in this new school did suspect that Lisa was being abused at home they saw a lot of telltale signs such as letting personal hygiene go victims of abuse particularly sexual sexual abuse will intentionally whether it's conscious or subconscious they will let go of their personal hygiene stop showering stop making themselves look appealing and attractive in hopes that their abuser wouldn't want to abuse them if they looked so bad you know and they thought that that was what Lisa was doing yet no one ever said anything it's so frustrating how many times this girl tried to call out for help tried to tell people what was going on made it very clear in her appearance what was going on so many people knew so many people noticed yet no one ever did anything to save this little girl at the age of 18 Lisa was forced to marry a man named Carl forced by her mother to marry this man and this wasn't just any man this was her stepbrother she was forced to marry her stepbrother who was equally as abusive to her as her mother had been as all of her previous stepfathers had been she could just not escape this absolute horror that surrounded her at all times from every person she ever met she was abused and tortured he would beat her every single day he would demand sex from her whenever he wanted and if she dared disagree or turn him down he would just rape her he would beat her he was awful with this woman over the years as a result of repeatedly raping her Carl and Lisa had four children together and after that after the fourth child Carl was done he didn't want any more babies with her but he didn't want to use protection either no absolutely not he forced her to get sterilized he forced her to go out of an operation get her tubes tied so that she couldn't get pregnant and he wouldn't have to use protection she was in her early 20s at this point she had had these four children in such quick succession she must have been like mid-20s and she's her husband is forcing her to be sterilized as I'm sure you can imagine at this point in Lisa's life her mental health is at Absolute Rock Bottom she has faced the most horrifying torture and abuse from every single person in her life she's never been able to trust anyone she's never felt safe with anyone and this started to manifest itself now that she was in her 20s in in quite erratic Behavior she was having symptoms of mental illness I don't know exactly what they mean by erratic Behavior I couldn't find any specific examples but what I do know is that it got way too much for her husband and Stepbrother Carl and so he eventually divorced her so this was a win and a loss for Lisa Montgomery of course it was a win in that she was finally free from her abuser this was the first time in a whole entire life that she would be able to live her life without constant abuse however him leaving her meant that Lisa was now homeless and severely in poverty she had no money she had no job she had nothing she had no idea how she was gonna live and honestly I don't know how she did she must have just been bouncing between shelters until eventually she met Kevin Montgomery the man that she was married to at the time of this case I don't know too much about their specific marriage but what I do know is that it was a whole lot healthier than anything she had ever had and living with Kevin Montgomery really helped her life to to settle down as much as it can she was still very very mentally ill but at least she had a little bit of stability a little bit of love in her life now now this is where the murder plan comes in Lisa Montgomery like I said had her tubes tied she was sterilized when she was in her early 20s and now she's married to Kevin Montgomery and she really wants a baby with him she wants them to to be able to create their own family but she can't get pregnant of course and with her very deteriorated mental state that she was dealing with at this point this led Lisa to almost brainwash herself into believing that she was actually pregnant so this gets a little bit confusing stick with me this is skipping ahead a little bit but in the aftermath of this whole case Lisa was diagnosed with pseudosis I hope I'm saying that right but basically this is a condition where the individual believes wholeheartedly that they are pregnant some of them know that they're not pregnant they know that they're not pregnant but they they get like a lot of the time they will get physical symptoms so they'll get like enlarged breasts they'll put on a bit of weight even their stomach can swell Sometimes some of these women that that get this actually look a couple of months pregnant even though scans are done pregnancy tests are done they're not pregnant but somehow they can have a phantom pregnancy just by kind of like convincing themselves that they are pregnant some of these women will also get nauseous and vomit and mistake it for morning sickness like they're getting like the whole nine yards some of them will have their menstrual cycle interrupted and with a few of these symptoms together of course you're gonna think you're pregnant like if you're throwing up on mornings your periods kind of stopped and you your stomach's swollen of course I think I'm pregnant too but the difference between this is that the thoughts come first and the symptoms come second rather than the symptoms and then the thoughts so that's that's the difference here there's actually been some cases of this that have been so severe that these women have been having symptoms of a phantom pregnancy for months and months and months and it gets to a point where they actually think they're having Contraptions they get all the way to the hospital thinking they're in labor they go to the ward and then the doctors are like what's going on there's no baby and yeah you're not in labor and that's how they find out that they're not pregnant because they have been so convinced and they've been getting a couple of symptoms here and there like it's actually a bit crazy this that like extent of it is really really rare it's more so kind of the milder symptoms that are more common but it happens it seemed that this was what was happening to Lisa and I mean later it was diagnosed so it was what was happening to Lisa biologically she could not conceive she could not have a baby in her belly yet she was actually having a few different physical symptoms she'd gained a little bit of weight over the months and her belly had swollen slightly I don't know if it was the the weight gain or if it was like a separate symptom but she did actually maybe look a couple months pregnant if she told you that she was pregnant and you looked at a belly you would kind of think oh okay yeah but I mean just to look at her just as a woman with the pregnancy out of your head I don't think you would look at her and think she's pregnant she's eight months pregnant as well no less because that's what she was telling people but because she was having these physical symptoms the way it gained and you know slightly swollen belly people were believing her her own husband was believing her their pasta the the pastor at their local church believed her in fact the pastor at the church did actually question her about it once this is like one of the only people that ever did question her about it he said that the baby seemed kind of small to be having a baby that soon like her bump seemed kind of small but Lisa just responded that she'd always had small babies because she'd had like four kids in the past haven't she and she said that all of her kids were tiny when they came out and she never really showed that much and so the pastor like what's he gonna do argue with her and say I think you're lying like he just accepted it he was like oh okay well I enjoy your small baby I guess so everyone in her life believed that she was pregnant and things only started to fall apart for Lisa Montgomery when news of her pregnancy got back to her ex-husband her step-brother as well might a reminder that guy Carl obviously Carl knew damn well that Lisa Montgomery could not get pregnant because he was the one that forced her to get sterilized because he didn't want any more kids so he knew that biologically this can't be true this is impossible that she's pregnant and he decided that he was actually going to use this against her because he wanted custody of their younger two children he had their older two and Lisa had their younger two with Kevin Montgomery he wanted custody of these other two kids off of Lisa and so he started this court case and his plan was to kind of use this lie against her and say look she's an unstable unfit mother look at her lying about this pregnancy it was gonna work against Lisa and somehow Lisa Montgomery got wind of the fact that Carl was going to try and use this argument against her and suddenly this struck fear into her and she's thinking well I need it to be real now I need a baby bear in Mind by the way even though she was suffering with this psychological issue and the phantom pregnancy and stuff she knew that she wasn't pregnant like she she consciously knew there was actually no baby in there so now she's trying to think of a way to actually get a baby she needs to prove that this pregnancy is real even though it's not she needs to get hold of a baby somehow and that was when Lisa Montgomery remembered a purse that she had seen on rata chatter not long ago of this young woman Bobby just in it talking about this fresh litter of puppies that they just had and she briefly mentioned in this post that she was pregnant a non-maternity leave so she was available any time for people to come around and see the puppies Lisa now knew that Bobby Joe was pregnant and she was far enough along to be on maternity leave this was the perfect victim and it was also kind of perfect circumstances she would be able to literally enter into Bobby Joe's house just by saying she wanted to have a look at the dogs she was interested in purchasing one of them so Lisa begins doing a little bit of research because she knows that she's gonna have to try and deliver this baby out of Bobby Joe so she starts Googling things like home births and how to induce a baby but it seems that the things she was Finding on those searches weren't really gonna work for her and So Lisa then starts searching things about cesarean sections how to perform a C-section at home things like that and when she was ready when she was fully researched Lisa Montgomery starts pausing as Darlene fisher fisher for kids on the ratata forum she starts talking to Bobby Joe saying that she's interested in these rat terrier puppies and she would love to swing by the house and come and visit the puppies so the two of them agreed a date and a Time December 16 2004 around 2PM Bobby Joe sent her her full exact address so Lisa knew exactly where to go and that she did well actually the day before this Lisa had actually done that whole Drive the nearly three hour drive from Kansas all the way to Skidmore just to kind of test it like a test run she wanted to make sure she knew where she was going because she had big plans the next day didn't she the next morning Lisa woke up amid that same long ass drive again all the way to Skidmore and when she arrived she knocked on the door and Bobby Joe welcomed her inside her home with a smile there was nothing seemingly amiss about Darlene Fisher she just looked and seemed like a normal lady that was interested in adopting a puppy now we don't know exactly what happened inside that house and when and how all we know is kind of what we can tell from the crime scene so this this is as best as I can tell him we do know that at one point Bobby must have turned her back from Lisa Montgomery and that was when she decided to attack she grabbed a piece of rub wrapped it around Bobby's neck from behind so the Rope was here and she'd squeezed it as tight as she possibly could she strangled Bobby jar until she fell unconscious Bobby fell to the ground and that was when Lisa Montgomery went into the kitchen picked a knife and returned to carry out this at-home C-section Lisa cut the baby out of Bobby Joe's stomach and left with this this newborn child as quickly as she possibly could the next time she was heard from was about 5 30 that evening when she texted Kevin saying I've had the baby I've had our daughter please come and collect me from this fish restaurant and Kevin was so excited to hear this he didn't doubt her for a second he was alerted that their baby was here early so he went and picked up their two teenage Sons or her two teenage sons and they went to go and meet their mom and their new baby sister at the fish and chip shop anyway it really didn't take that long for all of this to catch up to Lisa Montgomery and about two days after she committed this attack and this kidnapping the baby was recovered DNA tested and finally returned to Zeb it was their baby of course it was luckily the baby girl survived and like I said she didn't have any health issues or complications it was super super lucky because with a situation like that it could have so easily gone wrong Zeb renamed their daughter of course they weren't going to keep the name that Lisa gave her Lisa called her Abigail Zeb renamed her to Victoria Durr with the jar part being a nod to her mother Bobby Joe and in the aftermath of this case it was found that this actually wasn't the first time that Lisa Montgomery had lied about being pregnant she'd done this multiple times this was as far as she'd ever taken it like she'd never had to try and find a baby before she would always try and like squash the LIE before it got this far she had a really good lie that she could use because she had told Kevin Montgomery that she had a tube side so she she was unlikely to have babies but she'd conveniently told him that in some cases someone men can fall pregnant sir when she kept falling pregnant every now and again Kevin didn't question it but because she'd had her tubes tied once it got to about four or five months in she was able to lie to him then and say oh because my uterus is not actually meant to be holding a baby we've had complications and she would lie about miscarrying she would lie about having to have abortions like medical intervention abortions to save her life when she's not even pregnant there's no baby in there she'd lied about being pregnant with Kevin she lied about being pregnant with her ex Carl this whole time she's sterilized she cannot get pregnant at all so yeah she'd done this lie multiple multiple times and always been able to get away with it somehow until this particular time when her ex-carl was threatening to take her to court she knew she had to produce a baby from somewhere and it drove her to such lengths So Lisa Montgomery was officially charged with kidnapping resulting in death which is a charge I've I don't think I've ever heard of before which goes to show just how unique this case is like you hear of kidnapping a murder a lot but kidnapping resulting in death I've never heard that that phrase exactly before so in her initial court hearing Lisa Montgomery actually tried to plead not guilty despite giving an audio confession and admitting to everything she tried to say she was not guilty and at first it wasn't even because they thought they could get away with an insanity plea she was literally just saying nah I didn't do it but then after a while it was kind of like well obviously she did do it so they tried to get the not guilty on grounds of diminished responsibility they tried to say that she was clinically insane at the time that she committed this murder so she can't be held fully responsible for it and you know what I find this really really mad the jury rejected the insanity play I don't know how on Earth they could do that because she was diagnosed with multiple different mental illnesses we'll get there in a second she was diagnosed with so many different things that clearly influenced her actions they don't make them okay but that's why we have this please that's why we can find people not guilty based on their mental health is when they are diagnosed with so many things that so directly affected the crime that they committed like anyway anyway we'll get to all the things that she was diagnosed with in a second but first of all let's go back to her sentencing and her charging because I got I got really swept off track then I get quite passionate about this one for some reason so anyway Lisa Montgomery was found guilty in October of 2007 and for her crimes she was going to be sentenced to death she was going to be executed for what she did which again I don't want this to come off as defensive on Lisa's behalf I'm not defending her but just as a concept this really doesn't sit right with me finding someone guilty and sentencing them to death when they are clearly very very mentally ill I don't think that should exist I don't think that should have happened looking at least his childhood and her extensive history of abuse sexual abuse mental abuse physical abuse from every single person in her life pretty much how can you in good faith decide to execute someone who is severely mentally ill I'm pretty sure there is rules against that but they didn't find her like clinically insane in the trials even though she was diagnosed with things that's why the frustration is coming in because the doctor's opinions and the Court's opinions are just not the same one I think she certainly deserves to be locked up for the rest of her life for what she did she is a danger to society and she needs to pay for what she's done to Bobby Joe and for her whole family and to Zeb and to the baby that is going to grow up without a mother but does Lisa Montgomery need to be executed for this I don't know I'm honest I'm honestly shocked that that was the conclusion that they came to I Really Am her defense team did desperately try to appeal this and try to get her you know just life in prison but her defense team was shocking they were blooming awful they just couldn't work together at all and supposedly individually so there were about four or five of them and individually they were supposed to be quite good lawyers but put them together and it was just way too many big egos in one room they all wanted to be the leader they all hated each other they all hated how they would all go about it so they spent more of their time and effort and energy bickering with each other trying to get each other like kicked off the case rather than actually trying trying to to make a good defense for Lisa Montgomery in fact there was one male lawyer and I do want to mention this there was one male lawyer that was incredibly sexist to one of the female lawyers on the team saying he was not going to take any orders from any damn woman that's how uncooperative the whole group was with each other don't worry the women were just as uncooperative back none of them were working well together at all sir the case that they presented to the court was terrible and did not convince anyone of anything even though Lisa had mental illnesses her defense team were just so crap at like displaying that and arguing that that it didn't even work and Lisa still to be sentenced to death that being said it wasn't all the lawyer's fault they had mentioned the basics they had mentioned her diagnoses and they had mentioned all the extensive abuse that Lisa had faced they just hadn't argued it very well so the court and the jury knew about it all and still decided to go ahead with the death sentence there was just so many people being just Daft throughout this I think I had diagnosis I've been telling you I'm going to tell her a diagnosis so this included depression borderline personality disorder post-traumatic stress disorder which was very very severe and pseudoscisis which is the the pregnancy thing and of course they detailed all of the abuse that Lisa had gone through that caused the PTSD they started from the very beginning from when she was literally first born and abused by her biological mum and father all the way until over the age of 18 when she was then married after her own stepbrother and abused by him too this woman had faced a life of Hell yet the jury still rejected the insanity play it's it's an absolute Madness to me I cannot believe it Lisa Marie Montgomery was executed on January 13 2021 by lethal injection when asked if she had any last words Lisa simply said no she was the first woman to have been executed in 70 years and no other woman has been executed since then I mean it was only last year but still the first in like the last 70 years that's crazy not that much is known about the baby about Victoria Joe and even if it was known I don't think I would be putting it in this video I think it's quite important for this girl to be able to live a normal life she'll be about 17 now and as far as I'm aware she has been able to live a relatively normal life continuing on from this but yeah that is all I have for this case thank you so so much for watching this video and thanks again to established titles for sponsoring remember you can go to establishtitles.com forward slash Eleanor Neil the link is down below in the description and if you use the code Eleanor Neal at checkout you'll get 10 off a huge huge thank you to all of my channel members for supporting me and helping decide the cases that I cover especially my tier two members whose names are all on screen right now if you want to become a channel member you can click the link to do so in the description or you can click the join button if you're on a desktop but yeah thank you so so much for watching if you enjoyed please leave a thumbs up down below that would really help me out if you want to subscrib subscribe there's my face click it and you can subscribe but if you want to watch another one of my videos which I recommend you do uh there you go there you go picked one out especially for you okay uh see you in the next one bye

Channel: Eleanor Neale

Views: 1,218,994

Keywords: eleanor, neale, eleanor neale, eleanor neale true crime, mystery, unsolved, true crime, solved, documentary, serial killer, podcast, true crime podcast, netflix, 2022, bobbie jo stinnett, bobbie jo, bobbie joe, stinnett, lisa montgomery, ratter chatter, rat terrier, dog breeder, baby, baby snatcher, abducted, abducted baby, unborn baby, pregnant, pregnant woman murdered, murdered for baby, montgomery, lisa, darlene fischer, fischer, mother to be, mother, pregnancy

Id: gKUrgTng2nI

Length: 55min 2sec (3302 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 27 2022