Pregnant Amish woman attacked by husband; Bishops convicted of coercing victim to take back abuser

a word of warning this podcast explores graphic and disturbing stories and includes some strong language it therefore may not be suitable for our young listeners or other folks who may find it disturbing hello and welcome to True Crime daily the podcast covering high profile and under the radar cases from across the country every week I'm your host Anna Garcia we're doing a special episode today on the horrific sexual crimes and the abuse against women and children in the Amish community because the Amish are so secretive and private these crimes are rarely reported to police and if they are reported some police departments will let the Amish church leaders handle the Justice themselves today we will tell you the story of an Indiana mother who has been ostracized and shunned by her own family and friends for calling the police on her abusive husband they blame her for the abuse not him this young mother stood strong fought back and got her abusive husband convicted and sent to prison it is an unbelievable story we are recording this on April 5th of 2023. this podcast is a follow-up to one of our most downloaded and viewed episodes ever you may recall that two and a half years ago we uncovered a series of horrific sexual assaults against a 12 year old girl in Missouri who was repeatedly attacked by her four brothers she became pregnant and she gave birth at the age of 13. it was the doctor who called police the two brothers Petey and Aaron Schwartz were charged but about to walk away with no prison time as part of a sweet plea deal because the prosecutor actually said they had been punished Enough by the Amish themselves are you kidding me that podcast outraged all of you it is our most downloaded and viewed episode ever with nearly two and a half million views on YouTube so today we're back with an update on what is really going on inside some Amish groups that will shock you after that podcast former homicide detective Louis balanos and I began our own investigation we even traveled to Indiana and Ohio last summer in July of 2022 to meet with current and former Amish people trying to help and rescue victims many of you know Lewis who is a frequent contributor to this program Lewis is also a private investigator who runs get bit investigations he's a former homicide detective he also volunteers much of his time as a victim Advocate Lewis welcome back I am so excited to talk about this with you today yes oh my thank you so much for having me again Anna this this case is so personal to me now and to you I'm so happy we're getting to update our audience on this it's been an amazing as you said two and a half years hard to believe um but I I can't believe how close I came to not being part of that episode and I'm so glad I was because it truly changed my life as I know it did yours it really has we've started on it's almost like a crusade after that podcast was released the amount of calls for help were overwhelming many of them went to you you ended up setting up a hotline we ended up doing some advocacy work for some of the survivors who were really challenged within a legal system which is foreign to them you know they live a very simple life the Amish and it's taken several years but because of this Lewis we've built an incredible level of trust with some key people in this community who are running safe houses who are running operations to get women and children out of dangerous situations amazing police and prosecutors who get it and understand the difficulty of working within such a secretive Community but the kinds of crimes we uncovered Lewis are are horrific I mean we're talking about abusive women abusive children boys we're we're talking also about drug abuse we're talking about these unaccredited mental behavioral facilities which are run by different Church groups and and and survivors or victims are sent there to be reprogrammed because they're the problem as opposed to dealing with the abuser this is insanity yeah these places actually exist and really the mental adjustment centers right and the adjustment is toward and focused on the victim of the crime whether it's a woman or a child to get them to see the way of the church and I I'm careful calling this a church but that's the banner they're flying under right now that's a whole other issue we'll dig into that in a little bit Yeah and we do clear look look are beautiful wonderful Amish churches and communities and it is a peace loving group um very respectful for the most part without question but then there are these groups within there that are you know I talk about it this way you want to live like it's the 16 and 1700s right well that also means that the attitude toward your rights as a human being as a woman or a child means that's how you're being treated and that's the problem that's the disconnect absolutely based on that last podcast uh we did over two and a half years ago I have power received over 200 calls on the hotline that we put out and one of the common threads I saw and heard from these folks that were still within the Amish community and those that had escaped that's their common term escaped was that these communities that they were associated with prioritized man first horse second woman child third that's their belief and I hear that from different factions of Amish communities throughout the country what year is this well it's 2023 and this is still going on it's it's incredible it it is shocking I think the time we've had and for us to be there to physically be in these Amish communities in Indiana and Ohio even though we've we've been talking to people from all over the country really helped us to understand everything in real time you know um they really do travel in buggies um you know their limited communication with people it was a very interesting time for us it was very eye-opening um we want to continue on this path of shedding a light on this because we we believe that change is possible just as is important we must have not several Justice systems there's a justice system for one you you cannot decide that you will take justice into your own hands and there there has to be a better way and because of these you know some really aggressive prosecutors we're seeing some changes uh the case we're going to talk to about um we're going to talk about that Mom and Indiana Elizabeth Hilty who Lewis and I got to know very well what's important there is what a Maverick she was to take on this case and file charges and she was supported by the prosecutors and the police other women have not had that level of support so when you hear her story you she's going to take us through with great frankness and you know we've been to her house she's a lovely lovely woman and such a strong woman so we're going to talk about that case we're going to talk to her first and then afterwards Lewis and I are going to have a conversation about a case that we've been watching out of Indiana and it's a really powerful one because it shows the power of Amish churches and Bishops it's a case of intimidation a Maverick prosecutor in Elkhart County charged three Amish Bishops with intimidation because they went to This Woman's House a mother and a wife she got a restraining order against her abusive husband abusing her and her children these Bishops threatened her told told her to drop the restraining order this is all came out in court they've been convicted and according to what happened in court they said yes we told her we asked her to drop the restraining order bring her husband back in to the house because this marriage must be saved it is God's will and and it's shocking can you imagine can you imagine that's amazing thank goodness or this Maverick prosecutor as you call her um she's doing something that has never been done before but we have seen this before where church leaders in the Amish communities will come in and dictate as best they can how our criminal justice system to treat their cases and sometimes you don't have mavericks like this uh right Spirit heading the justice system you have people that will tell you and they've told me specifically or I called them and talk to them about specific cases this is the Amish community this is how we have always handled it this is the way it will always be and I just shake my head um as long as you're in charge you're right that's the way this is going to remain yeah yeah absolutely so we're going to Spotlight that as well so let's get to our first guest Elizabeth Hilty who's an amazing human being so we met her in Indiana we'd been talking to her for a year and finally met her last summer Elizabeth Hilty is a mother of seven all boys a beautiful family and she is really brave because after years of abuse she finally called the police and had her husband Willis Hilty arrested she was eight and a half months pregnant when he sexually assaulted her she didn't even have a phone to call the police she had to walk across to a neighbor's house to get a phone call for help and that call changed her life saved her life saved her boys lives without question he was prosecuted convicted went to prison is now registered sex offender but you're going to hear Elizabeth's story we're going to bring her on now Elizabeth it is so good to see you again how are you I'm good I've never been better oh my gosh I can see it in your face Elizabeth I can see it in your face you you're you have so much light in your eyes and your face when we saw you you had just left the Amish community maybe something like three weeks not very long no no it was just an incredible time in your life there were so many changes um Elizabeth you've been very very Frank about your story and it has cost you dearly in many ways relationships a very difficult time with your parents um let's just kind of start at the beginning um when you first met your husband Willis Hilty I believe that was around something like June of 2007 uh you were did you meet at a church group or how did you meet no that's when we got married we met four years prior to that and we met at the youth group our youth Gatherings that we had and he was very Charming um I never expected him to be abusive that was I didn't know that existed my dad was not perfect but he was a great man treated my mother with respect him and my mom loved each other they treated each other with respect as well and I grew up in a great home so that was something foreign to me in having abuse I didn't know I heard stories but I never personally experienced it or known that it truly existed like that yeah I find that so fascinating because we said at the beginning here we want to be clear we we're not painting a broad brush here of the Amish community because your experience has been a beautiful experience growing up Amish in a truly loving family and that's all you've ever known is love and safety and so to then marry a man who you say then became a monster now did Willis come from a prominent family was this a marriage like were you in love with him was it arranged was was he a good catch you know in the in the world of the Amish it wasn't it wasn't arranged it was just a good catch I mean I had no idea that he was what he was that he was a narcissist an anti-social personality person because he had he was diagnosed with both of those personality disorders so like when we were dating he treated me with all kinds of gifts and he treated me like a queen up until right before we got married um he told me one time that he can be very bullheaded stubborn and I just kind of shrugged It Off until after I was married I a couple years I started finding out these things and I was like why did I not know well I didn't know I wasn't educated I had no idea what kind of things actually happened and my dad was very protective of us of me and my siblings he wouldn't let us go to certain places for the night or be there without him and my mom because of not trusting some people and he said he doesn't want anything bad happening to us was his way of saying that he didn't want us sexually abused so my dad and mom were very protective of us as well so I didn't know you know I grew up in a sheltered home of not knowing what all actually happened in other homes and here I had friends that were experiencing abuse and being molested by their own father or brothers and I I had no idea and I get married and I seen right away what I married into that he was just a monster and you know I clunked to the hope that someday he'll change and I blamed myself and thought if I would just be a better person or a better wife a mother and it didn't help that the ministers the bishop they would come over and tell me the exact same thing that if you would just maybe do this and this be a better wife um listen to him let him be the head of the home instead of running him running out in front of him and trying to do the man's job which in turn I was just trying to protect my kids you know we we want to be very respectful of everything that's happened here but can you just give us an idea of the level of abuse yes he was very abusive sexually physically pretty much in every way that you can think of he was abusive of financially emotionally verbally but probably the worst was the sexual abuse that I experienced where he would force sex on me which I didn't know at the time that the word rape consisted within a marriage the first time I heard that is when the sergeant when I explained to the sergeant what happened to me when he came to pick me and my boys up in 2017 and he told me he said do you know what this what you just described to me and I told him well no and he said it's called rape and that just hit a light bulb in me and I was like really I have been having this all my marriage when I was pregnant with my oldest son um my water broke but the labor didn't go on it was false labor so the Midwife sent me home and she told me to just keep myself really clean and sanitized so I don't get infection and with that came no sex as well and obviously I didn't feel good either but that didn't mean anything to Willis he still had to have it I'm so sorry Elizabeth and after a baby is was born I always knew that his first goal was to get me pregnant again and I used to not understand that But as time went by and then looking back I do I think it kind of came from him knowing that I didn't feel good I didn't have the strength to defend myself he could literally manipulate me however he wanted to and I would just give up until one day I had enough and so I I went and got the dictionary and I read the definition of rape to him which said any forceful action sexual action taken against a female which it shouldn't just say female it should also say male because it can be done to meals as well but through that he got really mad and irate and he started slapping me and shoving me around and this was in front of my four four-year-old and five-year-old son my two oldest at the time and he ended up throwing a satire and had me pinned in a corner and had his hand over my mouth and I um I could have bit him and I was ready to and I heard and I say it was God tell me don't do it you only make it escalate and I didn't I don't remember how I got away but he didn't leave stop there he started kicking me from behind and then ended up slamming me into the wall which left and then indentation in the drywall where my head hit and after that I forever had bad headaches and to this day I still deal with Nick and neck issues and headaches that come from that but after that he was shunned by the church for what he did and at that point the ministers didn't shun me they told me I know what happened but the bishop was his uncle his dad um The Bishop's Wife was his dad's sister so through that there was family involved and they of course sided in with each other but I after that I started doing my own research on you know what what is happening why why does this do these things keep happening because it was like every year one episode would just be worse than the year before and then I would get the newspaper to burn try weekly through the mail and they would have articles printed in there about domestic violence and that's where I started educating myself on it was through papers and stuff that came through the mail that's pretty much all I could get my hands on and then God sent some kind people Amish people um Dave and Lena chup from Topeka Indiana into my life and that changed it forever they connected me with Rose Miller oh she's great from Lagrange Indiana and I talked with her for two years before I ever left but I had an awesome neighbor lady um she would let me come over and use the phone if I needed to and sometimes I would be there for an hour um just talking to Rose and trying to get through all of this so just for people who are following along with your case here so Rose Miller at the time was the executive director of a local Domestic Violence Center in your area and yes yeah and Rose was your Lifeline that made it possible to give you the Courage the support and the system for you to leave when you needed to but imagine how you know women outside of the Amish community at least have a basic understanding right most of us can find the resources but for you it was a totally different challenge to find someone who could not only support you but understand the nuances of the culture that you come from and be respectful to your needs and how you need to also live and exit and I I remember telling Rose you know she kept asking me you know how long I'm going to stay you know and take this and I I remember telling her well if if I report anything or leave somebody's going to get it and meaning you know some form of punishment or retaliation is going to happen from the Amish Church to someone and she would tell me you've got to change that thinking because if you look at it like that you're never going to step out for help but she would never tell me what I should be doing she would give me advice you know and what I could do and couldn't but I finally was went through Rest Haven in Goshen Indiana at Oaklawn and through there um they helped me out a lot I was diagnosed with severe major depressive disorder PTSD and high anxiety and I remember the doctor asking me um now what are you going to do about this and I looked at him and I said well I'm not playing the blame game I'm going to recover from all of this and he said great because if you play the blame game you'll stay where you are and you'll never get better you're going to blame Willis for this he said which in turn it is his fault that you are where you are but don't just leave it there take responsibility for the depression the PTSD seek out help and build yourself up build your backbone and that's exactly what I did and not even a year later I left I called the police tell us about that Elizabeth so tell us about that Elizabeth because that's such a pivotal moment this was the last time he ever laid a hand on you yes it was you went to your neighbors it was on a Saturday um he wanted he wanted six and uh keeping this in mind I was eight and a half months pregnant I didn't feel good so during the night at some point I went into my boy's bedroom we had two bedrooms a two-bedroom home and I moved all of them into the full-size bed and I slept in the half bed and in the morning he came into the bedroom never closed the door the boys weren't in there anymore but they were playing in the living room and he never closed the door and I told him that I don't feel good and he forced himself on me on a half bed I was between him and the wall and after he was done I could hardly walk for the rest of the day I just hurt and I was like I can't do this anymore I had talked to um Adams Wells crisis center the women's shelter prior to that and had told them you know about my situation at some point that I might um all of a sudden call and need to come in so next day was Sunday I went we went to church and I started Gathering my things together and making preparations to call and I called Adams Wells Crisis Center and they told me they would call the police and they didn't they said that the police need to hear from me personally in order to come out and pick me up so I was like you guys are really putting me in a bind because I had so hope like they would do it so I can tell the Amish Church what I didn't call the police it was just a roundabout way that I thought I could get around it because Elizabeth help us understand the fear here and the repercussions and the pressure you were under why that why that pressure was keeping you from making the call to police because I knew I would be shunned I I would be shown from my family from everything so that was a real fear because in the Amish The Shining is considered as cutting you off from God which I know better now but at the time I was still under that huge fear of not I didn't know all of that but I ended up the next morning on Wednesday morning um calling the police after Willis left for work and the sergeant told me to stay where I am until he gets there and not go back home and I told him wait he is not home at all he is at work and I will go back home and I will be okay so him and another officer came out and I don't know why I was thinking that he would he would come back later to pick me up and give me a time but after he had me in his car and I gave him a report on why I wanted to leave then he told me he said we're not leaving without you it's too dangerous so I gathered up just the bare necessities for me and my boys and I had six at the time because I was a half months pregnant and we had two police officers sergeant and another one of his guys that took us into Sheriff cars to the women's shelter then the detect the sergeant took me to talk to the detective and they did a recording on me and why I left or wanted help in getting away then later on that day they took me to the sexual assault Center in Fort Wayne where they did DNA testing and I was very hesitant to do that because I was pregnant and I asked him you know what's the purpose of this and the detective told me it so there's proof in front of the judge it's not just your word against Willis's word he said if you do DNA testing these people are trained for this kind of work they will be very gentle with you and not do some things they normally would because of you being pregnant he said but they can detect things that normal people never will detect it's uh Lewis it's like uh it's an a special examination that shows if there was force struggle bruising tearing right or any forensic evidence left of any kind whether it's semen or clothing there's so many trees things to be left behind but I keep Elizabeth you're amazing you are a superwoman superhuman super mom every time you had a question about anything you never waited you went and educated yourself something is as obvious as why are we doing this uh sex uh rape kid on me what you know is that potential hard and my child is there what's a positive what's the negatives with it and you educate yourself and I think now today if I asked you probably are glad you did that because the results are one of the things that pushed this case in the direction it should have gone absolutely yeah yeah so no I get it and when you say shunning I just can't stress enough Anna everybody we've interviewed in the last two years over 200 individuals right I can't to me when I first heard about what shunning was two and a half years ago on Daisy's case right I didn't give it the Merit it deserved it now when you hear an Amish individual is trying to escape the Amish community and their the fear of shunning is all of a sudden in their purview that's the worst possible thing that can happen to somebody who's in the Amish community are trying to leave they're going to be not only uh disconnected from God for the rest of their life but their families are going to be everything they care about it's going to be put in a corner and uh some believe and tell you that they're going to hell if they leave if your son your entire family or if you go to law enforcement will go to hell forever and they believe that because they're just not they they haven't been educated in that in that direction yet they only know what they've been told within some of these Amish communities and Elizabeth you went on you educated yourself right ordering newspapers you didn't have internet you did what you needed to do so that you could give yourself strong viable accurate information and you you build up a war chest uh you had incredible ammunition and I think not just to protect yourself but your seven boys right they're never gonna forget what you did yeah that's just amazing but yeah and so strong especially I think again people don't realize it's it's horrible to be in crisis and to be a victim and then but you know people outside of the Amish community may not have to lose everything that you need to lose meaning you would lose everything your family your community every possible support no one would stand by you you know your parents did but even that cost you you know I know it's been a rough go so once you have once you had the examination the forensic examination that showed that you had clearly been physically assaulted is sexually assaulted you told your story to police then was Willis arrested what happened next yes he was um my baby was actually born two weeks not quite two weeks after I left and at that time I was living in LaGrange County because the an Amish couple from Topeka Indiana came down to Adams County at the women's shelter and brought me and my boys to their house and we live there with them for two two and a half months and the day that my baby was born is the day Willis was arrested and he was arrested I um did a personal protective order as well and two two weeks later after my baby was two weeks old when we had that first hearing and I still remember how scared I was and knowing like I didn't have an attorney I didn't know that I I would be allowed to have one because the Amish were very much against getting attorneys so I went to court with only a victim Advocate and the guy that Dave chupp he's an awesome Amish guy that he went with me and then the prosecutor of Adams County Jeremy Brown he didn't have to be in court with me absolutely not because he was with the criminal case and this was my personal own protective order that I had filed but he sat there in court with me and he even intervened for me a couple times and asked the judge if I could go to my house and get more clothes and food and stuff my canned goods and different belongings so the judge made a Time window that I could go and get it so yes I had an awesome experience with law enforcement with the court system in Adams County that not everybody has and I am very thankful for it once Willis was arrested um help us to understand oh over the next you know few weeks few months what was happening with your family his family was even though there was a protective order was Willis trying to talk to you were his parents and your parents trying to or anyone intervening or pressuring you to drop everything yes the Amish people absolutely wanted me to drop everything and they actually went the Amish people went and sent Willis out to Pennsylvania at Whispering hope so let's explain here but Whispering hope my understanding is this is a facility that Willis went to for what purposes run by whom it's run by the Amish and old order Mennonites out in Pennsylvania and they are not licensed at all um no licensed counselors there um the purpose was for him to get help so that he would recover from his abusive Behavior and but the real purpose behind it was so that they could tell the courts the judge that they will put him through so and so program and make sure that he gets punished or gets help for his abusive behaviors they will hold him accountable so that the judge will let him off the pool so well so Elizabeth so while your husband Willis has now been charged and is at one of these facilities run by Mennonites and Amish that's I you know supposedly to rehabilitate him and help him clearly the man does need help I mean no one is questioning that but if you're not in the hands of true professionals and the whole purpose is you know to subvert the system that that's where I I get very upset with that so while he's there working on himself in the Amish way whatever that means are you being pressured by anyone to take him back and again drop this because I think this is the really this is the Crux of the problem here right Louis yes absolutely it's their their goal here is to use this unaccredited unlicensed mental facility to not just reprogram if it even includes Willis or suspects uh but Elizabeth's mindset right to get her to drop that restraining order before they can accept her back and combine that with the threat of possibly being shunned and I don't know about this specific facility that Elizabeth was exposed to but I know that we have discovered many many other facilities just like this um where they're not accredited they're practicing medicine and distributing medication um unlicensed from people that have just been tapped on the shoulder by some of these Amish commuters that you're helpless push our beliefs on the people we send your way uh it's just something I can't that it's happening right now as we speak in 2023 it deserves a lot more attention did they try to get you to go to one of these places Elizabeth oh yeah they did um back when I was still before I ever left um in was between the time of me after being at Rest Haven and before I called the police in that time one night the ministers came over because of some things that had happened and I had a friend that called the police so I was punished in church because the police came out and anyway the next night the bishop and one of the ministers show up and they tell me that they're going to if things don't start getting better they're going to send us both away and I told them I said I'm not leaving my kids again I was gone for seven weeks and I promised my kids I would never leave them like that again that and I'm not going and I asked them where they're planning on sending us and they said that we will tell you once you know we decide and they said but we've had dealings with this place before and it's a good place and I in telling me that they might as well have told me that where it was because I knew the lady that they tried to get to go there before and it was out in Whispering hope at Pennsylvania in Pennsylvania so I told them I said you guys he can go I said Willis can go you can send him but I'm not going and they told me the bishop told me that if we vote with the church and everyone is agreed you are going and I looked at him and I said Reuben I said if I say I am not going I am not going and I said I'm not leaving my kids and he said we'll take care of your kids he said people will take turns in taking care of them and I told him no you're not getting my kids who are these people who are these people to try and commit you to a facility that we believe is unlicensed unaccredited who are these people to to try and institutionalize another human being outside of the legal system who are these people you can't do this I have to ask Elizabeth when you said they punished you in church what is this done as an actual service they called you out in front of the congregation um the like couple nights before church the Sunday we had church and they wanted me to do a confession about um I don't know I know the Amish way of saying it is so different from how the real world says it but it was in fighting with my husband so they wanted me to do a confession on that and then because the police had been there and I I literally argued with them and told them that I'm not doing it and then finally that's where I came to realize you know I will never ever change these people and it'll always be a brick wall coming up against them you know what I'll go doing confession but from here on out and I know this was in September of 2015 2016. but from here on out I'm making preparations to leave and I did but I had to get down on my knees and say that I am sorry for what I did and I will try to do better in front of um every member of the church that was there that day so wrong yeah so so many levels but that that part there is when they when told me this was the Bishop from told me that they will take my kids and I looked at him and I said you won't get my kids said there's no way and he told me he said don't you know who I am I have the power and authority to make you go and if you don't listen I will punish you and I told him I don't care you can punish me I'm not going we we have seen that threat before in other Amish communities where the Amish Church tries to create separation between a parent or parents from the children with the threat of go do what you got to do keep the kids here um and once that happens it's almost impossible to get your children back I'm so glad you stayed strong and kept your kids with you was that something that ever crossed your mind that if you separated from those kids that it might be permanent I knew when I left to go there we had agreed Willis and I had agreed that they would stay at my parents and he could go there um spend time with their spend nights there whatever but that is where they would stay well once I was at Rest Haven a couple days later him and his dad Willis and his dad came to my parents house and took the kids and then they took them back and forth however they wanted to and it really messed them up when I came home my oldest son was in first grade so he was seven at the time and he cried and he said mom please never leave us like that again and I knew they would brainwash them if I ever left again like that they would brainwash my kids that I am a mean evil mother and woman horrific horrific what you've been through Elizabeth so um you know take us through the process of I was it did Willis actually end up taking um a plea deal was he convicted what ended up happening with Willis's case against you we want to be clear about uh the charges he was he was arrested on January 23rd he was charged with sexual assault at a level three felony in Indiana he ended up was there a trial or did he just plead guilty was there a deal he he pled guilty um did a 10-year plea agreement and prior to that I I have never been aware of this but the Amish people say that he was offered a three-year plea plea agreement and the prosecutor never ever like made me aware of anything like that I know that at the beginning he had talked about a 13-year plea agreement and Willis had declined it so the agreement was what the actual sentence was was ten years in prison two years suspended and he was scheduled to serve eight years how long did he actually serve well then he went in and he automatically gets another two years knocked off and then he enrolled into programs does his GED and he actually only served a little over four years he was sent he was sentenced and arrested in June of 2017 and August of 2021 he was released on home detention he had his sentence modified home detention and then he was required to register as a sex offender and Louis you looked at his registry I did I did yeah he's uh he's registered for a life apparently uh and he's registered as a violent predator yes she is yeah and you know I I it's not too uncommon that at some point uh he and I know this is because you're preparing yourself you're educating yourself Elizabeth uh he may try to to seek some type of visitation rights whether it's uh supervised design with the children um I and that's something that you're you're going to educate yourself about I'm I'm absolutely sure as to what your rights are how to deal with that when that happens um but right now he he is a registered offender and I believe he has to stay away not just from you but all of your boys right there's a place for that is there is there a court order now the the um judge actually went and took put in a no contact order with his um sentencing that day because of the courtroom was packed with Amish people and they were all there in support of him in support in support of the man who is just pleaded guilty to a violent sexual offense is not screwed up right yeah and look have we seen that before Anna right and I'm sure Elizabeth has were they the honors the courtrooms with the Amish to support the suspect and not just his support the suspect but what else does that do it puts even more intimidation on the victim part of the show the whole town won't even you come to those doors they won't even look at you in the in your eyes they will completely turn their heads right it's just it's a community effort when these things happen we'll talk about that more in a bit actually next week um have a court hearing coming up where he Willis asked to have the no contact order modified on my family because at this point he's not allowed to even talk to my my mom and dad and my siblings I I didn't know that had been included until about a year ago that he's not allowed to talk to them or see them so he's asking to have that modified and also on the boys my seven sons have the no contact order modified where he can start out with supervised visitation and then he wants his probation terms and sex offender status modified safety plan written up probably with the help of his three attorneys and has six people on there his mom and dad his brother and his wife and Eli Shetler and John Shetler his pop two guys that are power of attorneys for him that those six would be his accountability team and when the prosecutor called me or the victim Advocate from the prosecutor's office called me about this about two months ago and I told her my first problem with it is the accountability team they will never hold him accountable ever right it's a shame the other thing is he's asking for a sex offender modification because he's Amish and he thinks he deserves it because he's following all the rules and I told her I said in another year if you modify all of this in another year or even before that he has a pattern of this where he wants to come back and ask for another modification of something else and I told her he's going to keep this up if you guys keep giving in he's going to keep it up until he has everything removed what is the status of your marriage or are you divorced um the divorce is pending it's not finalized yet because of this court hearing coming up see in the divorce we don't have any custody issues at all because of the state's no contact so he can't bring any custody things it's automatically that is resolved oh and Elizabeth didn't you tell us that after Willis got out of prison even though there was the restraining order in the no contact order that that you were being pressured to take him back who who pressured you to take this man back the Amish Church the Amish people yeah then here here's the other thing that right before I left the Amish almost a little over a year ago there were Amish people that wanted to go see him and they said if he has good things to say about you we will come back and tell you and I told them I said you can't do that there's a no contact order there's you can't and they were like well who would find like how would how would the judge ever know how would these people ever find out that we did that who's going to tell them that is how much respect they have for law enforcement and think how much Above the Law they are unbelievable I'm sorry I'm sorry Elizabeth who paid for his three attorneys his dad and the church and did you get any help no yeah well from the Amish while I was still Amish they had a benefit fund set up for me but with that came a form of control as well this is our money and we want to know where it all goes right to keep you Amish because they didn't want you to leave they didn't want you to continue you know with the legal battle and the criminal case yeah it was it was all a coordinated effort to pressure and manipulate you this is insanity you are the victim of a violent sexual assault and somehow it is all your fault and everybody rallies around the man who attacked you this is beyond me it is beyond me and and I'm only one of the best very many women living like that I'm only one voice that I'm only one of the many many women that stepped out the others are still there and trying to fight their way through and some are shut down so much they they just go along and Ride Along they just take the abuse yeah you're a special person right people are watching what you're doing Elizabeth you know that I'm sure you're going to get positive feedback someone saw the path you generated you took and they're following your footsteps because you're going to make it easier for the next person and and that's probably already happened um that's the goal that's what I hope that happens yeah I do I honestly hope it does Elizabeth how has this affected your relationship with your family have your parents been shunned as well we're harassed very much I call it harassment okay um my parents don't like it when I call it that but I do because that's what it is they were harassed to the point where they sold their place back in 2017. and moved out of the community but then couple months later they moved back to the Adams County Community they moved back into the community yes just in a different Church District so um I think Elizabeth um I want to make sure that we share with everyone not just this horrific part of your journey but also there have been many blessings along the way and an incredible level of growth for you because you know Amish women are not educated because the Amish don't believe in educating their girls in particular and so not only did you educate yourself I mean you think about it you didn't even have a phone to call the police you had to go to her neighbor's house your life has changed so dramatically like in the last year not only did you leave the Amish you got your GED we you learned to drive Lewis and I were there the day that your minivan was delivered to your house your very first vehicle ever I took the video of it we're gonna show it because I just couldn't believe it and you're standing there holding the keys so joyful such a great moment for you so what's this Elizabeth this is my first car ever in my first Minivan and I just bought it congratulations thank you yeah and the thing is I cashed off my first vehicle that I bought like it was paid or I didn't have car payments well done I don't have that one anymore I now just last week bought a 2018 Yukon and to me it's almost a dream because that's the kind of vehicle I always wanted and I never thought I would be able to actually afford one and I I bought my own place which I have bought my own place back in 2020 and I sold that one in September and bought another three acre with a house in attached garage and I moved and now I get this vehicle and I apply for a loan and the loan goes through without any problems I don't need a co-signer and I'm just on cloud nine because I'm like I never thought I would be able to actually do it yeah well that's that's amazing congratulations a lot of folks can do it you got it done it's incredible it's just like you know to see your growth for us has just been such a joy for you to share this with us because we've seen it you know to to to go from you know living a life where you you know I think in your last home did you do you have electricity now your last home you had a generator when we visited did not have electricity I only had a generator do you have electricity now yes I do and I love it it's in handy you have a phone it's it's amazing I mean my God so much I am so I am so humbled that you have shared your story with us and that you have let us in you are such an inspiration to have done all of this in the face of adversity and you still smile and you have Light Within you yes you know um I know that probably many people that will watch this they might not be Believers in Jesus but I always say Jesus is the reason for my smile for my joy I would not be where I am if it wouldn't be for God he never once let me down every time when I thought I was to the end where I didn't have any way to turn I call those the Red Sea moments because God part of the waters for me just like he did for the Israelites when they came to the Red Sea and thought they had to go back just such an inspiration honestly I'm just I'm and you you know you were so kind to open your home to us and we had some time with your family your beautiful boys um my gosh you know I I just think you are just one of the strongest women I've ever met we have to agree with that absolutely thank you yeah just you know Elizabeth awesome kids though you do you do they're beautiful your boys are beautiful beautiful young men and um you know and just you know again it's so hard for me to to to see like where you were and where you are now again when we met you you were getting around by horse and buggy and there's no way you could fit seven children in that Louis and I were in the back of the buggy with you we went for a ride right that was an experience yes you did yes we did and I'm like how do you get seven children in here get the groceries and do everything your life has changed so dramatically I do have a question though about Amish so you're not Amish anymore but are there parts of you within you and in your heart because of how you grew up and your family and your friends I mean is there a part of you that is still Amish and and that you either miss or you honor absolutely um I will forever I always say I'll forever be grateful in growing up Amish I love the lifestyle like that's the part I miss is the lifestyle we had with um getting together with family and being there for each other helping each other out and the plane evenings we have together like in growing up um my siblings and I and my mom my dad was totally not a singer he would sit there and listen but during the summer time we would sit on our front porch and we had a huge front porch and we would sit there and we would sing together as a family and dad would tell us that we're worse than a radio because a radio you can turn off but you can't turn you guys off and just the whole thing um I love like our Amish Church meals there were the horses if I could afford it I would still have my horses they were more like my pets than my way of transportation I just loved like the way I grew up everything about it the community how we came together to help each other and if there's a funeral or a wedding like you didn't worry about how you were going to get done or how things are going to be taken care of people just stepped up and did it they came together and helped each other out and I I tell my boys like I had to work a whole lot harder than they had to have to now like when I grew up but then my older boys they did they do remember that life because they are old enough that they live that and I tell them they're spoiled now and they tell me no Mom we are not we're just thankful for what we have now and you know that gave me a different perspective of it as well because I never thought of it like that I was just like you guys are so spoiled and not having to do laundry the way I used to always have to do it it's a whole lot harder but to me I always had such joy I love doing laundry that way but I didn't have a washer and dryer um actually when I grew up where we grew up we had one of the Rub-A-Dub dubs where we had to do it by hand oh my God Elizabeth the life that you have lived is unbelievable and such an inspiration and you know Lewis and I are blessed uh to know you and um our continued relationships um it's a blessing to know you guys as well thank you thank you we're very touched by that we really are Elizabeth thank you for sharing your story we wish you the best and as always we'll I love that we text I do too I do too all right Elizabeth best to you your family your boys much safety in your life so Anna part of what really just comes to the top when I ever hear uh Elizabeth speak about her story she's so honest you're just rooting for her and her amazing seven kids um but we hear those stories over and over and over again relative she said has resonated with us because of other cases we have a person looked into so part of that just like Elizabeth I I tried to educate myself on Amish communities and what drives their beliefs and why law enforcement chooses not to get involved or only get involved in a certain way minimal at best sometimes and I had to ask myself because people kept saying well they sound like a cult they sound like a cult they sound like a cult now I want to be very careful with that right I'm not saying the community that Elizabeth is in is a cult but I see consistencies with other Amish communities throughout the country and just it as of 2022 and there's 32 states that have Amish communities there's about 400 000 Amish in the U.S just in the U.S so I did to have so many consistencies between each Parish each different uh Community it's very telling but one of the common threads I see there I'm going to read this to you because what I did I went out and I contacted six of the most world-ring out International cult experts and I ran some things by them and I did I read a lot of what they wrote what I want to read to you is something from Steve eichel he's a rule-renowned international called expert and psychologist and he's president of the International occultic Studies Association he gave me six points things that you need to identify first and then after these if you answer these yes you might be an occult things to consider so I'm going to read this to you number one says beware of any kind of pressure that's probably the single most important advice you can give anyone any kind of pressure to make quick decisions about becoming involved in any intense kind of activity organization Amish check number two be wary of any leader who proclaims him herself as having special powers or special insight and of course divinity Divinity defined as being or having Divine attributes ranking below God but above humans check number three the group is closed so in other words although there may be Outsiders outside followers there's usually an inner circle that follows the leader without question and that maintains a tremendous amount of secrecy check number four the group uses deceptive means typically to recruit new members and then once recruited with subjects will subject its members to an organized program of thought reform or what people refer to as brainwashing check number five typically Cults also exploit their members mostly financially within the group they exploit members financially psychologically emotionally and all too often sexually check and the last one a very important aspect of cult is the idea that if you leave the cult horrible things will happen to you this is important and it's important to realize that people outside a cult are potential members so they're not looked upon as negatively as people inside the cult who made decision to leave the cult check mate so they are careful with what they put out to the general public and because they still want to bring people enter the numbers into their flock and if you are part of that membership and you leave all of a sudden you're shunned and they try to they do everything they can to take all credibility away from you and so if you don't take the waters to anybody else there's a lot of consistencies here so I I it's just amazing this is 2023 and everything I just read to all those six points is things I have seen absolutely true at most of the communities who I have been part of Investigations into all it's mind-blowing I I think what is so hard that we have learned is the position that the person who's trying to flee for safety is put in not only are they in a dangerous situation but they are in a separate dangerous situation that they are about to be cut off from everything that they have and their entire support group which is what's very important here in the domestic violence shelter area that you know Elizabeth shared how eventually she got moved to the home of an Amish family because think of the disconnect you come from this world you live a certain way and then you pull this family and these children from this dangerous situation you need to have a safe house that also supports to a degree Amish sensibilities or cultures so the transition period which is very frightening and difficult has things that are culturally supportive for the victims and the survivors here and that's what makes it so hard because they'll go from you know you don't have electricity you don't have anything you don't talk to strangers all of a sudden you know you're in a house with lights a television it's frightening it's jarring it's emotionally over stimulating and physically so you know these are all the things that we are learning about this closed community right right and what you just described as one of the reasons the main reasons why they end up going back you're going back to what's comfortable to them what they know is safe perceive is safe and it's just a vicious cycle they just keep you know going halfway house rehab center whatever you want to call it uh yeah so so now we want to talk about what we think is a is a very important case a precedent setting case it's a tiny case that nobody's covered you know only people in the Amish community that's why we're aware of it and it's important because Elizabeth described all of this intimidation that she received from church leaders the church supporters this constant pressure constant pressure to change her mind drop the criminal case so this next case we're going to talk about is also from Indiana from Elkhart County this is where a bold Maverick of a prosecutor is fighting to protect Amish women and children who are being abused prosecutor Vicki Becker shocked the establishment when she did something that no one else before her has dared to do not only in her County her state after she filed these charges and she got a conviction she got calls from around the country from other prosecutors saying how were you able to do this how were it seems simple but it's not something that's used what she did was she filed intimidation charges criminal charges misdemeanor charges against three Amish Bishops the Prosper the prosecutor put the three Bishops on trial last year in May of 2022 the three of them were convicted okay do you know how important that is what she basically said to the community right a shot across the bow she said you cannot in the name of God or anything else try and intimidate a witness in a criminal case who's being abused who is a victim to change and drop restraining orders and all these other things just because you think the woman should stay married yeah she did something that we haven't seen in zero other cases you're absolutely correct she's the first phone to do this nationally and you look it's not just a message to the community but the message to law enforcement that we can do this you can fight this and prosecute these charges for intimidation and be successful in it you don't have to follow the norm because this is the way we've always treated it send them back to the community so that the Amish can deal with their own we say and that's just not a even a feasible solution yet it happens she is a trendsetter a a hero because she's changing lives I agree with you and you know we asked her to come on this program and she said that she couldn't because the case is being appealed when the conviction originally happened I did have a phone conversation with prosecutor Becker just to understand um the case a little bit she was very kind to give me some time but we have not been able to speak in months because once the appeals were filed she is prohibited from speaking and you know she wants to protect the Integrity of her conviction and her case because it really is it really is that important here's why it's important and we're going to get into the details of it remember how you know there finally there were some some real change in in Justice and criminal justice when um people started getting prosecuted for for not reporting the sexual abuse of children as mandatory reporters you know until prosecutors and police started going after church leaders teachers you know that mandatory reporters we didn't really change the culture so what ended up happening in the Amish community Lewis and we've seen this some bold prosecutors and police departments around the country not a lot of them but some of them in Amish communities started charging the Bishops with not reporting the sexual abuse that they became aware of because they're mandatory reporters so once people started once the Bishops started getting charged it changed things it forced the Bishops to start reporting and working with police otherwise it's to their own detriment they're going to get charged they could get convicted so that changed things and that's what prosecutor Becker is doing here um on the intimidation issue right she gets a conviction then maybe she can force them to think twice what are you going to do are you will it have a chilling effect and that's the whole point right right right and I think it is having an effect at least from while that was going on I mean at the sixth month we were following the three Bishops we talked about that almost on a weekly basis stay in touch we're watching the three Bishops this case um as I go through this progression because other people within Amish communities were also watching it right they were watching to see how that was going to end up to see if that would give them a bigger platform to move forward and the challenge of Bishops and and the deacons within their Community uh when it comes when they were they get uh intimidated when they were to threatened with shunning right drop the drop drop the uh restraining or dropped in criminal charges right or we're going to shine you I mean those are all we see that actually I want to say 99 of the cases we've invested within zombies communities that's Norm that's the norm it's not the exception there are always some type of thread in there from upper management from the leadership in these communities and where else can that happen right with this where you're not breaking committing a crime well I know what happens in the a lot of the all these Amish communities basically yeah they just do whatever they want I mean that's how they live and and the problem is because when you bring religion into the conversation it it almost paralyzes the police and prosecutors because once you bring a freedom of religion into the conversation that stops a lot of things it makes it so complicated and we're going to get into this case how it everything was done in the name of God and the judge is like um you know what this this is not about God this is not about God and that's why this case is so important and complicated so according to court records in June of 2023 Bishops went to the home of Elizabeth Wingard Elizabeth and her children were living under the protection of a restraining order which prohibited her abusive husband Jonas from coming near them the order was in place from May of 2017 through December of 2022. according to court records Elizabeth suffered at the hands of her abusive husband for years from domestic violence this is all from the court record according to the affidavit to show probable cause Bishops Freeman hochstellar Joe hoxteller and Willard Yoder went to Elizabeth's house and told her that if she didn't drop the restraining order and take back her husband they would ban her Elizabeth from the church she pleaded with them she said she has to keep her children safe because if she drops the restraining order the county will take her children away because then she will be seen as endangering endangering the lives of her children so she's explaining to them why she cannot take back her abusive husband Elizabeth told them no and that's when they got really nasty and and according to everything that happened in the trial Lewis they didn't deny it no they they thought it was fine they say yep that's exactly what we did so they were still condoning what they did in through the jury process or trial process so unbelievable to this day those denied forever I'm sure just just incredible so according to the affidavit a few months later this is after the visit from the three Bishops the church released a defamatory letter which declared Elizabeth was banned or shunned from the church for her quote insubordination refusing to let an abusive man back in the home that she quote brought this upon herself just like with Elizabeth Hilty it's her fault it's her fault the bishop said it was all her fault for not forgiving her husband Jonas for abusing her and the children yeah yeah victim blaming it it's worse so yeah and that letter I think ended up being used as evidence against them in court so as it should be as it should be but but the ship kept explaining to the judge oh but this is God's will that this marriage be held together man and woman must be together um completely missing the whole part about you know endangering lives so okay the police then questioned the men this is you know this is the build up to the case and according to the police the three Bishops confessed they said quote we are trying to resolve the separation of a husband and wife that was their focus not the safety of the wife not the safety of the children you know not getting Jonas the help that he needs right right completely backwards completely backwards and then there's another quote I mean the court records are fascinating on this um it said that if there is a restraining order this is this is what the bishop said to the police if there is a restraining order then you are not in good standing the word of God doesn't support it really where is that in the Bible unbelievable unbelievable you know I watched some of this and we both did online we saw this trial proceed online and one of the things that fascinated both of us and and you hear about this but when you see it visually it's just a whole different impact is how they packed that courtroom the three Bishops did with their own Amish congregation it was packed to the guild to support the three Bishops not the victim once again to support the three Bishops and to put even more more intimidation on the victim that's the purpose of that it's and the court and the judge the entire system right the entire system and look you have a freedom to support whomever you want right and that is the the beauty and sometimes the trouble with our system you can go and and support whomever but man it's just with something like this it's all like it's highly organized you know it's highly organized and constant pressure so the the Bishops also said this is again from the court records that if Elizabeth wants to be a member in good standing then she cannot have a restraining order are these three Bishops to declare this yeah yeah well they are so out of touch yeah so out of trash and they're the leaders right and that's the belief they're putting out there and that's and it it we call them bullies in other societies they're bullying their way to get what they want it's probably worse than that but yeah they absolutely believe in what they're saying drop the restraining order that that's just another tool to try to get someone to drop a restraining order under pressure which is completely illegal yes yes so the three of them were charged and they went on trial the three used their religion as their defense they admitted that they wanted the restraining order gone and they wanted Jonas back in the house they admitted that they banned her that they banned Elizabeth for not complying with their demands I mean they admitted it they didn't deny any of this this is what's just amazing so when the judge finally wrote his decision you know based on the facts that he had heard and the statements that were made in court you know the the judge's words are very powerful the judge wrote quote Elizabeth was exposed to hatred contempt disgrace and ridicule she was ostracized from her Church community which resulted in Social isolation the children were banned from Amish schools and she was banned from shopping at Amish businesses that is the price she paid for protecting her children yeah hit her where it hurts right everywhere everywhere yeah I heard the slipper life upside down um yeah it's it's frustrating but back to you know like even more light on is this the behavior of a cult well one of the things and again you know we did hear from Elizabeth Hilty who said she had the most beautiful upbringing the most beautiful family and childhood memories in a very safe community and so I think what's important to remind people is that the way the Amish Church's work or communities is they're individual you know they can they have districts I think is the way they're called and they have leaders within that and depending on who the leader is dictates a lot on how that church operates and if one is too conservative or one is maybe too Progressive you know people find not all operate like this which again is very important to say because I think the majority of the Amish churches you know they are good people there's a lot of good people in there there are a lot of good people and I just want to be clear about that but there's a lot of problem within the community and and sadly the good churches aren't really able to help and kind of mold the ones that have these problems which I mean these are public safety issues in Elizabeth's perception of her wonderful upbringing in the Amish community and her positive thoughts on that I I agree with that but that's all they allowed her to see as a child now that she's gone out to edu and educated herself she has a whole different version of that wonderful memories but you know I I don't know I do know that most of the communities that I've looked into have this cultish Behavior may not be hers may not but I feel very confident saying that and that's something that you know I I just think really needs to resonate not just with communities but a lot of the justice system there's something going on here where their minds are being tweaked in a way groups are made to do things that other groups just wouldn't normally do in supporting a suspect protecting the religion first and that's a part of the victim because of religious exemption that it's just it's just absolutely so the judge also wrote that quote the defendants had no regard for the safety of the children or of her and really that's that's it that's the whole point that these church leaders right didn't care about her safety the children's safety it was just about keeping this marriage together right everything's lost on them they're you know what's important to them it's it's incredible so one of the Bishops actually said in court that that he didn't believe that Elizabeth Wingard was a victim of domestic violence yeah you're never going to convince him you know the rest and the kids growing up and the youth in those communities you will never change that man's mind no no because I'm I don't think the conviction has changed their minds at all it might change maybe someone else you know to think more thoughtfully before trying to intimidate maybe we don't that's what we're hoping we're hoping if this stands that it gives other prosecutors the idea to go forward with this and start charging these cases to start you know enforcing the law this is the law the rule of law in this country you don't get your own separate justice system because you're Amish even though they are in effect doing that so the judge said that the defendants quote showed no understanding of the trauma that she had suffered through many years and continued to suffer on through the date of this offense they had no regard for her so the judge found them guilty of intimidation a Class A misdemeanor on June 6 of 2022 they were sentenced in August they were each given a year of jail time which was suspended plus one year of Probation and a very strict order to have no contact with the victim and her children in this case as far as we know Elizabeth Wingard remains banned and shunned from her community and continues to be victimized for being a victim the case is on appeal yeah what do you make of this Louis is on appeal who's paying for that they have nothing to lose um yeah so she Elizabeth is still in the community so every time she's getting very harassed intimidated on a daily basis all those are crimes all you need to cut it at the court at the beginning they started that so I'm hoping they finish what they started and the justice system is consistent was the theme that with this intimidation is not acceptable um you know shining is is a huge tool and I bet uh to some level degree they're still trying to get her to write a letter recantation or something that no that's not quite what to to put it more the blame on herself than the suspect and the three Bishops in this case yeah um nothing's going to happen until the justice system starts being consistent with how in these cases like to handle every other case of domestic violence child abuse rape outside of these Amish communities um and we just haven't seen consistency there Anna just not consistent and that's what needs to happen um yeah and that's why I applaud prosecutor Becker on this case because um she's really trying to fight the good fight and she's the one who has these women come in to her office to talk to her and her prosecutors about these cases and so many of them can't go forward because they're scared they're being intimidated this is the world that she lives in so I I hope that this case has a chilling effect I hope it is part of the change that we need to see because what we discuss all the time on this podcast is what is Justice how how should it look we know that communities determine a lot of what happens within a criminal case but it's this is just not okay this is just it's just not okay um Louis I want to thank you for this great conversation today and this journey that we've been on uh that we're not done with I I just want to share one little story when Louis and I were in Indiana so Louis you uh two years ago one of the things that you realized was missing was you needed to get the word out about how to get help like if for children for women so you worked on a poster you know that could be either tacked on somewhere or emailed and I know it's like some Amish have emails some don't and it was important that this poster be written in Pennsylvania Dutch and in English because some of them don't speak English and so you and I we tried to give out some of these some of these flyers in an Amish community it didn't go over so well no no we tried we tried it was it's step one in a long process but yeah trying to handle we tried to hand it to families coming off with literally the buggies riding through town right and try to have discussion but at least there's a phone number there it's step one and you know that that thought process of trying to educate the Amish and the children within those communities all they have to do is have the number and ability to call which is another hurdle uh but I think that that's a big thing that didn't exist before we got involved two years ago so right it's a big step it is we've seen we've seen a lot of improvement we've seen several families who have left um who have gotten convictions that to me is the most gratifying part whether you choose you live your life how you choose but if you as a Survivor are able to get Justice and get your attacker and your abuser convicted that's what I'm all about yeah and we're going to put that hotline up again yes we are right report Amish child abuse 83344 child it's been up and running for two and a half years and it's gonna stay up as far as I'm concerned as long as we can make that happen absolutely well Lewis has always it's been a pleasure life with you is always interesting never boring huh yeah no so Louis where can people find you follow you on social media reach out to you if the Amish are listening well I know they're listening right I know yeah yeah they're absolutely listening my entire social media footprint is at getbitinvestigations.com excellent you can find me at energy news you can get this podcast wherever you get your podcast you can subscribe to our YouTube channel you can see our original podcasts our episodes on um the cases the Amish cases that led to this if you if if you really want a full picture of what's going on and of course you can subscribe to our newsletter through truecrimedaily.com until next week I'm your host Anna Garcia this has been a special episode of True Crime daily the podcast and as we always say whether Amish or not don't do crime

Channel: True Crime Daily

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Id: k1c-5qJqykE

Length: 93min 5sec (5585 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 07 2023