Influencer who blogged her fake cancer story busted after getting over $100k in donations

a word of warning this podcast explores graphic and disturbing stories and includes some strong language it therefore may not be suitable for our young listeners or other folks who may find it disturbing hello and welcome to a special edition of True Crime daily the podcast I'm your host Anna Garcia everyone in the world of True Crime has a story to tell about a case they worked on or that they lived through some are high profile some you have never heard of but they are all fascinating today's case is about how a young mother of two with a cute little pixie haircut managed to fool the world into believing that she was dying of cancer in order to con people into giving her money this went on for years prosecutors say that her blog and her social media were filled with fake photos of her pretending to be sick and getting treatments she even shaved her head to make it look like chemo had taken her hair the woman was ultimately busted by the IRS in 2019 and charged with wire fraud this case is the subject of a new podcast called scamanda the story of Amanda C Reilly and how she used social media to commit this fraud unkind giving people many of whom had lost loved ones to cancer themselves here's a clip from the podcast [Music] she was putting Alpha's blog like a weekly couple times a week and it was really like a soap opera it was very easy to get sucked into the writing of it I'm a stage four refractory blood cancer patient she had very little time to live two beautiful young boys very undeserving it was so much back and forth that you're healed and then your back and then you're healed and then your back terminal Miracle terminal miracle so a lot of us did donate money [Music] I prayed for her every single night I thought good intentions could save her I received an anonymous email they basically said there's someone out there you need to know about and if you could do anything about it you should they served a search Warren on the house okay we have guns they have SWAT I received a notification from the Department of Justice it was shocking to say the least [Music] listen to scamander now wherever you get your podcast [Music] [Applause] scamando the podcast is produced by Lionsgate sound and two amazing journalists Nancy muscatello and Charlie Webster who join me now welcome ladies I'm so excited that you're here thank you thank you oh my gosh I mean some of you may recognize Nancy she's been on the podcast before Nancy and I have worked together for years Nancy's like an incredible true crime producer Charlie you are an amazing journalist you work here you work overseas you've covered some of the biggest cases in the world so putting you two together is like Perfection thank you I think we're that's so kind I don't know what you think Nancy together are like you know we're definitely like the dog with the bone oh and you're dangerous you're perfect and you're dangerous both of you are this case to me is unbelievable because here is a person who you know it's hard for us to believe that someone would pretend to have cancer that someone would pretend to share the worst Parts about what it is to fight cancer to do this in such a public way we're always like sucked in by by people like this I think I do believe people are good-natured and I do believe people want to help which is probably why Amanda got away with this for as long as she did Nancy how could you investigate a case that is so complicated because of you know HIPAA laws and things like that how can you even prove that someone doesn't have cancer well yeah yes that it's really extremely difficult and and just like you said you know you don't want to believe that in anybody right so when when you get the tip or you get the information that oh no this is what someone's doing it you have to reset and and try and look at it through a different lens then then you maybe genuinely want to look at somebody and you know that's hard to do it's not is that a comfortable place to go to think wow yeah someone can be so vile right so um it's a very slow tedious process because um no no one wants to believe it and getting to the ears of people to say no I think this is what she's doing um yeah it's just not a comfortable position to be in Charlie isn't this like a classic fraud case you know because it's always the scam based on someone in trouble who plays on on our goodness and our good nature but such a good question because I'm not actually sure it really is because one thing that I find so look when Nancy first contacted me I questioned Nancy no offense I love Nancy but I did I questioned her and then I started to get sucked in and I don't see myself as a you know I think we have this thing where oh oh no I'm I a lot of the I'm gonna call them victims because they were listed as that in the case we're like you know I don't understand I'm not naive like I'm and we blame ourselves right and I'm not naive but I was going through the blog post of Amanda who is Commander um and I was like no way there's pictures of her in hospital there's um it's just so detailed so convincing and so out there and to go to your question is I don't think so no because even when the heat got turned up well he got on her and then got turned up she made it even more public she didn't hide away she didn't run away she went forward and she then accused Nancy of things and Nancy can speak to that because it became I know it became very personal for Nancy um but then she actually thought she was cleverer and better and maybe that is typical than the police um than the IRS then then Nancy then then any of her people that she was manipulating but I think what is typical about it is so it's not about the money really and it's and I don't think it necessarily was for her it's the manipulation the emotional abuse that I think underpins this that maybe is typical and your opening was wonderful Anna because you said this she's got this pixie haircut she's cutesy and there you go she's not this monster that we think criminals are she's lovely she's polite she's Charming she's beautiful she's um empathetic she she connects with you she she understands you and you can see how easy it was for her to convince people to help her oh yeah it's like they say you know it's never the crime it's the cover-up you know and another thing you know she's not the first person to fake cancer and collect money right you you do hear about it a lot and but yeah right you would not think it but it's becoming unfortunately something that's more common and in most situations when you read about those cases it's you know Sheriff Bob goes down and says knock knock hey Amanda we hear you're doing this do you have cancer oh my God I I don't I'm so sorry I didn't you know that's not Amanda Riley Amanda Riley like just like Charlie said as people maybe question or things kind of heated up it was it was even more aggressive and more public after that it it didn't she didn't she didn't pull back right she doubled down she doubled down so I I just want to catch everyone up and then you're going to take us deep into this story so um we're talking about Amanda C Reilly here and in May of 2022 Amanda who was 37 at the time was sentenced to five years in prison after she pleaded guilty to one count of wire fraud now Federal prosecutors say that the scam began somewhere in 2012 approximately in San Jose California and at least 349 people have been identified by the authorities as victims people who were swindled by her and the government puts the fraud at about a hundred thousand dollars but you all believe it's far more than that yeah so the reason why is factually it's not even a belief is because they only included what was sent over the wires hence wireford so it was what was done on the internet online but so many people gave cash donations they gave in kind donations through food through babysitting through one one woman we found even gave her own plasma so and all the cash which we know there was so much cash that was given wasn't actually included and they weren't included as victims so what do you think the ballpark is here Nancy so for me I know during the investigation each time she would because she thanked a lot of people for a lot of money and a lot of things right so Justin tallying up what was thanked and not wired donations I was up to about 80 000 at one point before because I did I couldn't see obviously what was coming in through her support page so just from what she publicly thanked and from what was reported even through some people saying you know I gave three thousand or I gave so yeah I was up to almost about 80 give it and then more came in after that but she thanked people for for different fundraisers so you know and then people gave her Charlie's right right and people would people would give her trips not just supposedly to get treatment but just like you know how like with um these different charities that make wishes come through for people who are ill or dying touching upon that that's there was you know concert tickets football tickets um first class airfare to eight trips to New York you know that there's there was a lot of income devices uh you know Charlie mentioned um uh babysitting you know uh people donated a lot of time uh activities for the kids gymnastics tennis lessons swim lessons you know it's a lot it's a lot of very very good hearted people yeah it kills me the prosecutors say that Amanda Riley falsified medical records she forged Physicians letters and that she attacked anyone who challenged her Nancy being the top person here I I she had a Blog and then I'll I'm gonna hand it over to YouTube because I know there's so much for you to tell us here so she started this blog lymphoma can suck it was that the name of it okay and so that was kind of like the I guess the beginnings of this to a point at least the public part of it so somebody one of you take us in here and tell us the story about how Amanda began this whole cancer story which turned out to be completely false go ahead Charlie because you you tell it so well I was like who's gonna go who's gonna go start it and then you pick up okay and you know she started this blog Anna as you said called little lymphoma can suck it um it was the Heyday 2012. it was the Heyday of blogs so there was no well there was no Tick Tock it didn't even exist Instagram was kind of starting and influences I don't think was a term but she was the start of the influencer because she created this blog post and she started to Journey her own Journey but with such detail and emotion and intimacy so people all over the world who could relate to her who were either cancer survivors or currently struggling um emotionally as well not not just physically as many of us have been touched by cancer in some way um and so you can see how people were drawn into that but then it became her local community too so she infiltrated the church so we know that she wasn't going to church before this so she started going to church at the same time and we're talking about a mega church so that means a couple of thousand at least yeah and so that gave her a platform so she's got a blog post she's got a church and then the actual local community of San Jose and the schools and then she became a head principal of a school and then infiltrated that school too so it was these different communities plus the online community of how she started to but it all came from this blog and people were I mean Nancy tells it so well because people were just just poured into this blog as we know from our own experience with social media you can really it can help you you can follow somebody's journey I know amazing people that post about that that something they're going through or their trauma and it can help you feel less alone in your own story right absolutely that's what Amanda did and so people people started to follow her and follow her journey and she didn't she didn't ask for money to start with yeah it just it then it again it's like typical you know you asked about whether this was typical fraud I don't think it's difficult for it I think it's typical abuse because it was it was bit by bit so it's the grooming process and then she started to ask for money when she got your attention and that's it the attention the amount of attention that she got and she was the star of her own movie she had the starring role in this plot that she had written this narrative and it's interesting how it's sentencing her brother I always find this interesting you know the person is pleads guilty is sentenced and yet family friends fellow teachers still stand there in the courtroom supporting her not standing they just wrote letters no one showed up no one oh no there you go and husband husband yeah so to write but to write these letters for someone who has now admitted to the fraud and it has been found out to be a fraud I always find that interesting but the point about what you were saying Charlie about her craving this attention Nancy is that even her own brother I believe wrote in one of the letters about how he felt that this that was the Genesis of it that she craved attention yeah and and maybe so I mean we're finding out more you know I I've found out so much about her but you know before she was diagnosed and now you know when I say diagnosed but um yeah I mean the blog was extremely emotional it was extremely endearing to who she was um it as I I said talking with with Charlie with for the podcast like it was a soap opera because she took you on this journey of you know being at her lowest of lows so many chemos the you know the sickness the the ailments that go along with that to the you know as we say you know terminal Miracle terminal remission and it's a journey it's a roller coaster and you're rooting for her and I would imagine you know the thousands at that church it's the power of prayer like she pulled in their their help by asking for prayers constantly you know they they gave her a forum at church she was up on stage almost like a preacher you know giving her testimony so they had a so much invested in her um and and that's a nice thing right so you know she had a huge support system explain to me and and I know that your podcast isn't just the crime your podcast is about Amanda the the seeds of who she is and how she pulled this off within family and friends but the one thing that I I and I don't want to reveal too much because I know in your multi-part podcast you will be revealing so much in detail but here's the part that I as a journalist am fascinated about how'd she do this because she had photos of herself in doctors offices um she had pictures right where she was in a hospital saying she's getting this treatment here and that treatment there how did she do that how did she how basically how she how'd she do that what I will say in that question right now right it's a full-time job let's put it that way uh if only she would have gotten a job uh you know think about it if people you know or maybe yourself something happens to you or you feel faint you don't feel good you go to an emergency room right emergency room's job is to treat your symptoms and to bring you in and to see what's going on and how you're feeling right um in an emergency room in a bed in an emergency room you can take a lot of pictures of yourself you can you lay in there for hours sometimes you're being wheeled around to different places right um oh I I fainted oh you're dehydrated let me give you an IV let's give you some you know something for that oh now I have an IV in my arm let me take some pictures of that um are you saying that she went to hospitals under false pretenses and that she squeezed herself in there and then started taking pictures all for the purposes of saying but no really I'm at so and so getting chemo yeah so she just she didn't just sit at home and blog about it she did do all of it and that's why you know in her down because she did go to hospitals she should go to doctors not no oncologists but I don't feel good my heart is racing I have some problems oh let me refer you to a Cardiologist okay so you know you've been to doctors well you're going to a doctor's room they hook you up to let me check your heart you're telling me your heart's racing they run tests on you well those are a lot of great pictures you know so so that's how she pulled off the visuals of her illness I would say yeah the vast majority you know did she ever have like I don't know some kind of you know very low type of procedures done in life and then did she saved some pictures maybe but she also would wander the halls of hospitals you know you can walk around the hospital late at night you could walk around you can walk into an MRI room you you'd be shocked the places you couldn't go and and take pictures well what about the Specialists right because she had cancer then it went into remission then when she was pregnant with the second child didn't the cancer come back again which was like while she was pregnant you know wasn't that part of the storyline yes yeah yes she went into remission I think I counted four or five times oh yeah and the way that the way that I so when when I first started making the podcast and putting it together and writing it I was like okay what what's so fascinating about this is the psychology to me is the psychological and behavioral element of what she did and I think it's it's you know it's categorically wrong and I'm really sorry for everybody she hurts because it wasn't about the money I feel it was about the violation and again for anybody that's ever been affected by this however the human behavior side of things is fascinating so I wanted to take listeners on a journey where you kind of get sucked in yourself and so we played out all the times that she said that she's one you know I won screw you a Cancer and then got some I've got some bad news I went to the doctors today and you know it's back and and that was the the up and down of the story throughout and yes she did involve her her two children three children her stepdaughter two three Oh you mean when she pretended that she had cancer while she was pregnant which of course would be a the scariest thing for anyone to hear that the cancer's back yeah and and that you're pregnant because that really limits your ability to get treatment and the possibility of a baby losing its mom is is is horrific now here's I I know I'm stuck on this because I'm still trying to figure out how she pulled off people had to believe her and it couldn't just be oh I have cancer so that's when the documentation and the visuals come into this as we've said she posted all these pictures of her you know with the shaved head and she's in this this medical center and that medical center now it wasn't part of the scam here that she traveled the country to meet these experts in the area of which she was ill and Nancy didn't you track her down to some New York doctor or something yeah so yes so um and again it's it's this illusion right this manipulation so yeah she was she was flying back and forth to New York for a very special clinical trial um she was very careful she would she would give information that was very specific about the treatments but not necessarily name the doctor or name so she had to kind of figure it out and that took quite some time but when I ultimately did um what she was claiming to have done and to be participating in didn't exist okay so I was able to fact check that type of stuff um but you know she did go there and get a consultation so you can you can go right you could say I have Hodgkin's lymphoma I'm looking for my next treatment I've heard all about your facility please tell me about my options wow that is so complicated like how to how to prove that this is all false in in this world where your medical records and your medical information is so protected in the United States I mean how you worked on this for years Nancy for years how were you able to crack this well I mean her her blog was key because everything was in her own words and her experience so the detailed information she did provide um is what I focused on so I focus on the facts where where she ultimately was treated the type of treatment the type of drugs um what they cost you know what any procedure and things she said she had done and and gave very specifics um I was able to fact check through sources at those facilities um and I just kept a very thorough log um for oh probably 18 months at the minimum of like that was enough to say hey you know somebody help this is out of control now you know so you know and I just like a quick example you know she would she would say oh oh I'm here for my whatever treatment in New York okay so I knew I knew the facility because she had named it at one point um I was in touch with them right and I explained to them my situation sent them the blogs they were not happy to see this they made that clear to me though they couldn't say much more so you know basically I was able to say oh hey did anyone come for treatment today that had a lung collapse you know um and they'd say absolutely not we don't have anybody in treatment today we are not administrating that drug this week so it's things like that where she was claiming here I am here I am here's my IV blah blah I could fact check the facts with the facility itself not about her just about them in general does that make sense it does so while Nancy's working on the facts and trying to disprove much of what is being put out on her blog and in social media because as the years went by as Charlie said you know there wasn't Tick Tock then but as the years went by Instagram became that much more popular everything was changing and she was growing and changing with it and telling her story in this multi-platform manner so Charlie for you it's more about the Amanda like what makes her tick why is she like this what is it about her journey like Nancy sees it from obviously a very factual way and and Charlie I feel like you're seeing it as okay let's talk about this criminal let's talk about this convicted criminal what are the seeds where are the demon seeds here of this Criminal yeah and and just listening to you made me realize why I think we're so good together none's here because Nancy is so tenacious I mean as I'm as I'm I but in a different way right Nancy so I think Nancy's like fact facts my brain slightly it is much more of the emotional empath creative side so I find her so fascinating and her motivations of why she did this and how she got I'm gonna I don't want to sound like I'm being empathetic towards her but how she got sucked into this whole thing because interestingly listening to Nancy speak about you know she Nancy look at the end of the day I really truly believe that the only reason why this woman stopped so far and is in prison is because of Nancy because people shut the door on Nancy so many times and she pursued and it I don't want to speak for Nancy but it became very personal for her because Amanda then targeted Nancy and but for me she could have stopped and got away with this even when the police first contacted that they did they spoke to her she went to the police station without giving too much away and when here you go here's my medical letters so she offered them up if she'd have walked away then and stopped she wouldn't have gone to prison they wouldn't have been able to carry on the investigation there was so many times she didn't stop when she was given the opportunity to she knew Nancy was was pursuing her she knew Nancy was watching everything she did when the police first started looking at her she just pushed more and she knew they were watching her so what is it about a person that does that that's what I think is so fascinating and even now I've been in contact with her and she thinks Nancy is the enemy she actually called her the enemy Nancy's the vindictive one and she even questioned you know I came at this um without making Nancy team as if she's not independent like I I came at this Nancy did all this amazing fact check-in and went after Amanda way before she met me and then I came I got involved and then I came at it as a Storyteller and more of his in an independent journalist but she thought I was hired by Nancy and initially I was like you know I'm not on anybody's side I'm looking at this from a independent I'm an independent journalist I can't I can't lie about anything like and I'm a Storyteller that's how I approached it and she thought that I was hired by Nancy or the ex-wife which we haven't touched upon yeah we should touch it the ex-wife sorry I should say her name because she's wonderful person a leader um who is the wife the ex-wife of Amanda's husband who I'm sure we're going to get on to sure so yeah it was much more of a you know when you listen to it the it's you know yeah you you said she got convicted we went to her sentence in which again was another story in itself because it was so bizarre which we can talk about in a minute it was totally bizarre I I was like like being an observer and in the podcast I try and play that out again because it was bizarre to watch and her reaction was bizarre to watch again going to your point about the psychological emotional side but again when you when you listen I mean honestly I've listened to those episodes I no exaggeration I say at least 300 times each trying to put them together and I'm still I still get drawn in and every time I Simpson and I wrote the damn thing so um all right I I think Charlie's kind of led us into this direction of the investigation and a little bit more about her and how this happened so yeah Nancy this came in as a tip and so at what point in Amanda's fraud does the tip kind of come in how long had she been perpetrating the fraud when someone in her world is like you know what we got to do something about this so give us that time frame so at the time I I got a Anonymous email um I was looking for cases and stories um because I do that all the time right you know Anna we've worked hundreds of stories together and I had gotten an anonymous email that said hey there's a woman Amanda C Riley here's her here's her blog here's her you know Facebook about this this is who she is and um she's faking cancer and I know it and can you do something about it can you help what can you do if you can do anything you should right um and that was in like 2015 so she has she had already been uh blogging for about three years okay so they were just interrupt there's a Twist in that but because what I saw Nancy's face and I was like she's not gonna give it there's a Twist in that we found out more stuff like yeah yeah yeah but that's going to be in the podcast not to be shared now okay we'll close that door it's amazing what you know a little shining a light on something like this when more people come out of the woodwork um yeah so so I had my initial launch off was three years worth of blog already okay and so which was great you know I was like okay and again it's a soap opera did you believe it Nancy at what point Nancy did you say because you know you get I get these all the time people reach me through social media or through my website please look into this case please look into this case uh and I try my best to look into the ones I can um so I'm but there's a point in which a journalist says hmm right well yeah so reading it at face value my my initial reaction was This Woman's dying like oh this person's very sick come on come on like she's dying right this is sad this is you know there's the monitors and babies and you know I survived and you know celebrations and then tear yes it was very difficult to start saying so I had I had to really think about well first like like you said what do I do how do I how do I start fact checking that and at the time um you know my own sister passed away from cancer very young she had two young children um looking at those photos and reading Amanda's Journey it was all too real I mean I lived it with my sister right so it was extremely relatable to me um and then I reread it and I looked again and she started naming you know procedures or drugs that I knew yeah I went through with my sister so I knew how to do the research research I knew how to explore clinical trials because I had done it for her you know so I I had that bit of knowledge and then when I started say okay this woman this this woman is supposed to you know be faking this let me let me look at it through different lenses I was able to start picking out some nuances that I felt like oh okay I don't remember that with my sister I don't remember that and then um and so I contacted a dear friend of mine that actually helped with my sister find clinical trials that's what she does that's her job she places patience with that and so I said listen when you look at this blog with me would you Redline anything that stands out to you so I know like what direction to look at and she was kind enough she was like absolutely Nancy I'll take a look at it and so you know she was an expert at that so she looked at it she sent me notes and she said right here this drug combination this this is this isn't a trial this doesn't exist you know those are your those are your jumping off points um so you know it was kind of this this battle Within Myself and and you know I know I've said it before and talking with Charlie it's like it my sister you know couldn't choose to have cancer right yeah nobody can choose to have cancer this woman shows it and it just it just made me infuriated right and it just disgusted me it let that that fire that I was like yeah we're not doing this we're you know this we're we're taking her down if that's needs that that has to happen because I just felt like it wasn't fair and also the more I looked into it I pulled court records things that she was involved in um and looking at that uh it painted a picture that I was like oh this goes beyond just faking cancer I mean her and her husband were you know they were involved in a custody battle that I pulled court papers on and I I really felt like they were very disingenuous to the courts and to that that woman and her daughter so and that's where Elita came into it um I eventually reached out to her to kind of get some background and to understand more about who Amanda and her husband were so Nancy it I mean you've been working on this for years for years and years and we're going to get to that point but I just want to jump to Charlie for a second so Charlie while Nancy's doing all of this can you just give us an idea of where Amanda fits in like uh Married with Children like give us that picture um that we're missing here because we haven't had a chance to talk about that yeah so that's the other element to this you've got the wire fours you've got the blogs and the influencer side of it the infiltration of the community the church but then there's a family element of what she did and there was a big family element and that's how we actually start the podcast to to set the scene around it so she at the time when Nancy starts looking into her and she gets this Anonymous um tip from her Source Who by the way Still Remains anonymous because she was scared about what Amanda would do to her so that just puts the perspective of um the other side of this woman she was married and she had a child who is her step-daughter so the daughter of her husband who she called bonus a bonus child yeah bonus daughter to to everyone and to her face so she was her bonus daughter so Amanda is married to a man named Corey and Corey had a child from a previous marriage but they were not divorced they were going through sorry they were divorced but going through a custody battle of the child when Amanda and Corey were married now I don't want to give I'm going to give it away because it's so good also awful um she actually how can I explain this she was actually part of that home and that marriage that she was brought in by the wife to help another daughter who was going through cancer when Amanda was only a 17 year old to come and help her with extracurricular activities and she ends up with the husband that's an old story yes exactly so she ends up with Corey and then they they marry and they have two children correct correct well yeah well yes two together they have two children they have two biological boys and then they had the step daughter Jessa who she called her bonus daughter and she fought for custody over her and as Nancy said Nancy looked into the she pulled the court basically records from that custody battle and she was using her cancer to be able to try and get custody of the poor child once Amanda you know married Corey it was that wasn't enough she she wanted that life she wanted the she wanted Jessa also you know she didn't want there to be any type of co-parenting for whatever reason in her mind so Jessa and for people who are trying to follow here Jessa is the biological daughter of Amanda's new husband Corey yeah and she andalita yeah and Elita okay so and when I was like a family drama as well right right so when I when I was trying to kind of get to know who everybody was I I reached out to to uh Elita um I did it very vaguely and very like hey I'm you know trying to learn a bit about um your ex-husband and his wife I know she's battling cancer and and my Approach as a journalist at that point there was a lot of tweeting and Instagram things of church members and friends trying to get Amanda on various TV shows because they wanted you know Ellen she's a mom of two she needs your help people were calling out her and her sickness and you know to get support right so right I was saying I would you know I looked into the due diligence of who she is and I mean Elita couldn't have been more gracious she said you know I have nothing I'm going through a horrible situation with them but I I will not say anything horrible about them because she is dying of cancer and you know that comes first and all I can do is you know make sure I get as much time with my daughter as possible so you know she was just so genuine in wanting to protect her daughter and and she had such a big heart about what Amanda was going through because her other daughter she has other children as well went through a cancer battle so she knew what they were up against and um she felt terrible you know she was she was big enough to put her own ugh horrible custody battle in the background so that they could heal with this cancer they were dealing with um so then Nancy as you're working this case and you're working this for years at what point do the once you realize wait a minute I believe that there's genuine fraud going on here this is a scam I believe that's when you came up with the name scamander brilliant name um and when did the police or the authorities become involved and did that in itself was that a difficult process yeah so when when I felt comfortable enough and I've talked to enough people and by then um even my my source was willing to talk to authorities because there was some key information from them um once I was able to get a couple of you know things together and then my extensive information I reached out to um what's San Jose police department because that's where she was from and it was a financial fraud division and that was a detective Martinez and I left many messages I left so I'm like you have to call me please just give me a minute you know and then I I emailed him very thorough information and all neatly packaged to try and you know make it simple you know to kind of get the gist of it right away um and he a couple weeks went by and then he he finally called me and said listen you know this is tough I'm a one-man Department he explained a lot of things to me and he said but let me take a look let me see let me see what this is um and uh yeah and then from there he got back to me he's like I'm in let me let me see what I can do um and he could take it you know he could take it to a point um and when we we talked to him about lens in the in the podcast and he explains how and what he was able to do and to get to a certain point but he you know he did talk with Amanda like Charlie said he he had a back and forth with her um Nancy did you ever speak with Amanda I know well yes eventually in court yes but before that uh no I may I spoke to an attorney um that was vaguely representing her at one point and I left uh one voicemail for her offering her to speak to me at any time right because as you're investigating this at once you figure out what the case or the story is as investigative reporters as all of us are and for those of you who aren't that's generally what you do you first have to figure out if is there something there that's potentially suspicious um you look for the supporting documentation for it and then you always have to go to the person who is Central to the case or the investigation to give them ample opportunity to respond to explain all of these things you can't just like not include that person in your conversation but she never she knew who you were you you got on her radar but she refused to ever sit down and say Nancy let me explain to you she never did yeah absolutely and what what she digested and took away from it was that Elita the ex-wife hired me to spread lies right there was never oh someone's on to me that that's not what she put out there what she put out there was the ex-wife was a horrible individual who was trying to ruin her wow he ruined the ex-wife's life basically she and she have to understand to add to that and and then could carry on Nancy because just to add to that so everybody understands that was the narrative she was already putting out there to get custody of the child right so she was born ready that wasn't a new narrative she was already spinning that narrative so she could get custody of her stepdaughter called her bonus daughter Jessa and that narrative already existed so then when Nancy came along she just plugged that into the narrative well look I told you I told you what this ex-wife was doing now she's got this this um what did she call you initially like a report a friend a reporter yeah a reporter she hired this woman yeah do this to me so you can see how it worked because I'm not only dying of cancer but now I have he's already there yeah now I'm being attacked on top of it and in a way what Nancy did at that time was gave um Amanda for proof in a way if if Amanda could spin that lie that was just more proof that look at what look at what the Ex-Wives doing to me she's now she's now telling me I'm lying and look at me I'm I'm dying you can see I'm dying I've got a shaved head look at all my pictures so in a way it was it just fueled her her continuation right and it's in that process you know um elita's life was destroyed I mean imagine you're trying to co-parent you want to go to your your daughter's recital or game and you are now vilified they don't want you at the school they don't want you they don't want you signing her out of school because you are this horrible person that is that is doing this to this woman dying of cancer so this poor woman you know it's so it's it's it's so much more than just a money grab you know it's it's a horrific tale of what this woman was able to do so as the years go by and the investigation progresses and it it becomes a case much bigger than anything that the San Jose police department can do because they're potentially federal crimes that are involved so how does this case then get on the radar or how does it it moves from it moves from San Jose to the IRS yeah that that was yeah so uh in talking with Detective Martinez he was able to make some key leaps which was fantastic and he was he was getting a bit frustrated I was getting a bit frustrated again it's so it's his investigation I wasn't doing his his work of course I'm sitting there waiting for like just just to arrest her you know um so you know there's a little bit of that but um uh I was I was my father-in-law was a retired IRS agent and so I talked to him about a bunch of different cases I've worked on in the past and and I've done cases profiling the great work of you know IRS cases and so we were talking and he just looked at me and he said since Nancy says that's wire fraud he said you should contact the local depart IRS department I said what do you mean he said she is getting funds over the Internet she has a website she's getting the donations that's the wire this is all wire fraud whatever she is collecting on that edge he said he and he said he goes That's a unique one for the IRS you should really you should reach you know give it a go you should reach out to someone so I talked to a detective Martinez and I said hey here's what I'm going to do everything I sent you and all that I'm going to do the same I have a couple of contacts at the IRS from stories I've done you know I'm gonna send it out he was like go for it too and he was he had worked a bit with the IRS on some cases and he said yeah let's let's do it that's great so that's what we did I sent it on its way um I would say let's see almost five months went by of like crickets and I was like you know leaving messages and like hello come on um and then my phone rang one day and a special uh agent Arlette Lee uh said she's like I'm so sorry I haven't gotten back to you I've had a lot going on in my life you know again I think a motivating factor she was dealing with a close family member going through chemotherapy and oh my goodness um she said I cannot believe what I'm looking at um I need I need a mo I need some time to really delve into this and uh if we decide to move forward the last thing I will be able to tell you is you know I'm working this case and then there's a wall you know so because I as media and then also her Source uh there had to be a wall and so of course at that point it was handed over um you know she had all the information and then she did her thing so now very lengthy you know a federal investigation oh so they they turn everything they subpoena you know medical they they do it all and they do it all without the person knowing that's the amazing part because you know at the heart of the crime here was um did she or did she not have cancer because if she had cancer then you know you can do whatever but if the medical records show that she did not have cancer or that she'd never been treated for cancer that would be the Crux of the of the fraud part of this and the only ones who could actually ever truly get those records legally would be the authorities yeah and that's the that's the point about it is that lying itself isn't a crime kind of should be I don't know life isn't a crime it's not illegal so even though she was doing all this heart to people and lying it still wasn't necessarily a crime it's the fact that she got money over the Internet because even the money that we you know we said at the beginning of your show like the money that people gave her by hand in cash people through cash on the stage in church there's pictures of her with cash at her feet that's a great photo that is a marvelous photo yeah that food that photo is on our website actually at lionsgatesound.com if people want to see some of the imagery because all her blog posts um got taken down so we have them but they're not actually available on the internet but we've shown some imagery that we're allowed to um on our website but she so it was the fact that they had to connect what she was asking the funds for over the internet to whether it was true or not that's so that's why it was so hard to technically get because they had to give the evidence and then ironically the thing that that she was putting out there her blog became the evidence right right they account for every dollar that came in to support Amanda because that was her site and then went into that a bank account and where it went um and they they painstakingly track all of that um you know and that's that's how they get to that that point and you know one of the hardest things is that take that they have grand juries they have you know search they do a lot in and it takes time and you know just on a personal for me having to sit there and watch people continue to give and her continue to solicit and dying and remission and people it it was it was horrible yeah because I and I did you know personally I would reach out here and there because I was still working it for my own benefit My Own Story to be able to tell um because I thought oh I could just drop a little couple of hints you know if I contact this person that just gave three thousand dollars and just say oh so I'm working on this story maybe they would say oh I won't do that again right no no because they believed you know it's like I tried I you know I was and there was a handful that I was well received by um that we're very thankful they were very saddened and they were very upset but they they then could back you know step back and then take another look and feel confident um you know in what I was saying or you know how I was approaching them and so you know I I tried I mean listen at one point you know I I sent a a very like you like you said like what a journalist would do an email to the brothers because they were the ones that put up the website for her you know was a very extensive thing about my brothers but this website for me you know I emailed two emails the first one was I see there's this this fun you know uh website you're collecting all this money here's who I am here's what I'm looking into and here's 10 questions I have about the handling of the money um I never heard from anyone but I thought at least maybe maybe that would send a light but to the family to say hey maybe take a look at what's going on here but then three or four more years kept going and they were there supporting her and it was it was like you know well I have you know if you genuinely believe that this person has cancer and you're either a good friend of them or related to them and then Nancy moscatello starts bothering you through emails or calls and you're like well wait a minute who am I going to believe the person here with the shaved head you know who is suffering and I see her suffering and I see how it's affected our whole family versus Nancy muscatello who the hell is she right I mean if you put it from that perspective exactly what you were asking was like really out of left field like where did this woman come from where did she get this idea and ultimately Nancy you were the truth teller in this one and you were always the truth teller and people don't always like the truth it can be especially painful and in this case it was so I want to get to the part where um two things so because that wall gets erected between if you're whenever you're a working journalist and then the authorities are involved then and you know this is I think the hardest part about being a journalist you've got all this great stuff and you think you should be a part of what's going on in the investigation and they're like no you are not a part of this and this we're not going to talk to you for a very long time which is like really guys I brought you this story this is how you treat me but and it's just the reality let me explain yeah the one thing I what I continued to do and what I was able to do because because it wasn't crossing any boundary was if if I came across someone or anything I felt could be helpful I would just I would just email it off you know or I would say to the person you know here's the person who's in I believe it you know here's the person investigating it here's their number here's their email you know if you feel up to it you may want to talk to them like you talk to me um and I would leave it at that and then if they reached out eventually to Arlette or to or to detective Martinez um right and so I tried my best in that aspect like if I felt there were some key people or even information I found I always directed it to them without me doing it you know I just said hey reach out you do that felt good that I could at least try you could keep it right yeah and then there is this moment there are many pivotal moments but there's this one morning at Amanda's house a pivotal moment when the authorities come knocking with search warrants and um Nancy is only Nancy can gets gets a tip right that this may possibly be happening and this is how I end up there I have just worked on this the tiniest tiniest tiniest bit over the years as you know True Crime daily has included it in our website when she was finally arrested when she you know was convicted and sentenced and all of that so um that is the only part that I know about this case is that there's July and then shall I ask the questions for like two seconds sure there you go so Nancy asked Anna to come with her to the uh raid at Amanda's house so would you like to both explain what that was like [Laughter] I always say there's few people I I go out at four in the morning with uh Anna's one and of course uh there's a couple others but uh yeah around his voice if it's okay to say Anna is is a little bit in our podcast and because Anna wonderfully explains and with Nancy um what that Meme was like and then we have detective Martinez who was there he was the um the police representation running the case who Nancy initially contacted and so was special agent Arlette Lee and and detective Martinez explains to us and helps us get into Amanda's head because he actually sat with Amanda while the raid was going on um which by both of your accounts was very aggressive and we could we can hear that and we have audio of that as well in our podcast but what I found so fascinating about that moment is detective Martinez told us that he sat with Amanda while her house has been turned upside down imagine what that must be like I would I I don't know I'd be I'm just running all over the place I'd be like oh my gosh what have I done right your kids are home it's you know before the sun comes up and all of a sudden it's as you see it on television they storm your house every inch of it and apparently she was well not parent related to Martinez told us that she was as calm as you like just sat there nonchalant so you know am I gonna get out on tennis then yeah yeah you're Amanda and see Riley then yeah so well will the kids be able to get to school then maybe yeah and that's the conversation that happened mind-blowing yeah right right yeah and I don't even remember when we were you know we're on public streets out in the the front you know and watching it all go down and the husband the husband's out front Corey with the search warrant in his hand and you know here what he's saying is this is all Nancy's fault this is Nancy because you know and I think I'm standing there with Anna and the and I'm just like oh my God like they're blaming me they're what like and that's the amazing part of this of this whole story and of the podcast as well that you all have brilliantly done and I've obviously it's not all out yet it's it's it's coming out um you know in segments in episodes is that you become the bad guy yeah you become the bad guy and they get so angry with you it's not that they're being investigated because it's fraud and this is a scam it's being investigated because of Nancy muscatello and it Nancy is the problem and in fact they got really mad at you and went after you yeah yeah yeah yeah they uh they sued me uh and mind you this is after their homes raided after they know there's a federal investigation um you would think maybe you would go into remission right everything's fine I'm in remission we're done yeah yeah and that was my point earlier yeah manner about about the psychological appeal to me of this character of this this story is that she could have stopped and she could have she could not be in prison right now she could just be with her family and her two kids yeah biological kids that she's left behind but instead she just went after Nancy and andalita the ex-wife and said it was though they were being vindictive they had it in for her and and they actually called publicly Nancy the enemy and tried to discredit Nancy which you know I know I know Nancy comes across is this Francis is gonna hate this I'm gonna say this she's gonna be like um Nancy comes across as this and strong um person which he is but that's horrible for somebody to try and discredit you know I'm so experienced um as an incredible investigative journalist and producer reporter everything and they tried to discredit her and that's when I said earlier it became personal and that that's horrible thing to happen because people then start to question you well yeah it is it tarnishes you know me and and my next my next job my next whatever you know if if I was to have something on my my record as that like you know that's not okay that that's that's a problem and you know um they she became very inept in in using the court system um like I said with the ex-wife can the cancer was in every document you had from her bankruptcy to the custody now remember this isn't her daughter this is her husband's daughter but somehow in all the court filings it's about her and her cancer because the husband of course is paying thousands upon thousands a month in a medical hardship so how could he possibly pay child support and how could he possible right okay so every facet they used that cancer diagnosis to to manipulate the courts and it worked the bankruptcy courts were bending over backwards for them to switch the dates when can you come in oh I have a bone marrow transplant I mean there's some stuff we uncovered that's in the podcast um them dealing with the bankruptcy courts because um we we were able to get recordings yeah wow you know um yeah that was wonderful for the pie so that's something to look forward to because you know when I pulled those bankruptcy papers they had um 180 000 in debt and not one medical bill okay but they're telling the courts we are so destitute we have so much problems because this cancer is costing us thousands of months I can't even do child support I can't do that so you know for them to then use it against me you know what it was working for them so it was working for them in every aspect were you scared I mean were you scared that even though you were right and you were and you had the truth on your side you know sometimes that doesn't matter it doesn't always work yeah yeah I I wouldn't say it's not scared it's it's you get a self-doubt you know and um you get that like like oh am I wrong right did I get this wrong oh my God yourself yeah and I have plenty of friends that like to you know Razz me up to and just say oh you better hope you're right you know like you know my own children uh you know Mom they those kids could be orphans what do you do like they try just to get in my head you know yeah but yeah it's when it comes to my livelihood my work something I love and I would be you know crushed if I couldn't continue doing um because of something like this yeah then that that's that's absolutely you know scary if you like it is scary no I agree with you I I'm always um always if I'd ever get called in about something I'd be like oh my god did I misread that you know and then of course you didn't but you're like you doubt yourself because if you are an honest and humble human being you have to accept the possibility that you were fallible and you know but the point is to always you know have oversight on things and not be okay so now let's get to the point where she gets arrested how does this come down this is like how many years later yeah so it took Federal authorities for you know however that system works they have to wait to see the grand jury they go through that whole process um from my perspective it was about almost four years you know but again there was there's from the time of the search warrant it was like another four years yeah yeah wow so there was four more years of scamming no that's no it's not it's not the you know it's not it's things move slowly but also what I learned you know Administration changes change uh U.S attorneys change priority of cases like I think there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that you know that uh special agent Lee had to Champion the case you know and keep it going and keep it alive and keep it at the Forefront in order to be able to move forward to actually then indict I didn't help that um the pandemic was happening at that time really just slowed down um so there's there was a lot of that taking place um during that time and it was also the it was the first the first type of this this fraud for the an IRS case at least from what uh agent Lee was able to research because you know of course it's wire for that's a very generic that's it but the the act of what she did at the Cancer all of that was extremely unique and and the first time that they took something like this on so they wanted to make sure you know it was lock Barrel you know it was solid so that there wasn't a cell of cancer in her yeah yeah or just that you know because it does I think it's really important because now there's a precedent out there um that someone that's that's that's trying to pull off something at this at such a a high level especially dollar amounts um you know there's something to be said that okay we know what to do with people like this yeah and it was the first just had someone what Nancy said is the first and still the only case of its kind by the IRS wow amazing and to show you how good Amanda is with all of this because it was a federal you know IRS IRS so she just Twisted it and started telling everyone oh my God all this is is that I got all this money from everyone and I didn't pay my taxes on it that's all this is the people believed I'm just gonna pay my taxes and this is going to be cleared up ignore the letters that you got saying hey you're a victim Department of Justice just sent out you know um yeah they've got it wrong yeah oh don't that does all that means is I didn't pay my taxes interesting I didn't realize that spin to it so she so she's indicted wow so and then um I I do recall just because I'm also friends with Nancy over the years Nancy you know would send out this text and say this is the link if you know because they're back in court and she had all these changes and attorneys and then she ends up moving and wherever I could I would try to jump on to hear what was going on uh with the federal case what ultimately ends up happening from the time that she's indicted it it that was yet another long period of time yeah and that that was a lot due to just to slow down of the courts with kovid so um that just went in you know you want to call it in her favor to just slow down the whole situation but uh you get you know she got indicted in 2020 August of 2020. um and I it is I think I try I remember reading in the uh in one of the court filings her defense attorney made a point of saying in court that it had taken a great deal of time for his client to come to the realization yeah um because she didn't she still didn't she wasn't going to plead guilty he wasn't going to plead guilty she was going to go ahead with a trial yeah and even her defense lawyer said that in court and what was so interesting is after we went to the sentence and so she she was indicted and she officially went to prison in September of last year so 2022 and she was sentenced in exactly a year ago um so may 2022 and she I remember after and I was talking to Nancy I was like hang on she hasn't actually admitted yeah this so she yes she pled guilty but even to the wire fraud yeah she still but she still she didn't in her statement and to nobody she still hasn't admitted that she lied so I I went to speak to her after the sentence in and um she did speak to me outside afterwards and then we had some conversations and text message conversations and then we have had back and forth in prison and and again I was fascinated because she still hadn't said that she has she still hasn't said that she hasn't got cancer she still says that she's not well oh I believe she's not well I believe that yeah she's as physics she's physically she is and there's more to it and she isn't well and and I think it's just fascinating that she I think she still believes her own lies yeah when when she finally pled out you know there's a there's a there's a process it's very cookie cutter and so the judge reads everything about the crime and what you did and blah blah blah and then you have to say yes right basically and so it was very formulaic you don't like she had an opportunity to to at that this is during like when you plead guilty not when you get sentenced she had an opportunity like she just sat there because I went to that um you know and they so you you basically are admitting to the crime but you're not forced to say oh and by the way oh yes I don't have cancer you never you don't physically say those words right a full statement that she gave to court to Amanda's full statement is in the podcast and it is it's compelling I mean wow compelling and then the judge's response made the whole courtroom gasp oh and that them is that's okay okay we'll leave we'll leave that tease there you're gonna have to listen to their podcast so as part of sentencing there's restitution correct yes yes well are these people ever going to get their money back let's be real yeah she's ordered to and um she any job there's rules with it right you have to maintain a job when you get like there's things and they take a percentage um so yeah they they do the best they can um you know yeah so all the people that online maybe yeah but all the other people that we know gave cash and not just that a lot of the people we talk to it's not about the money like they are so betrayed by it they just it's it's they feel like there's Justice in her being put in jail now you know for Elita and and Jessa um there's no right there's no nothing I mean Elita lost out on thousands upon thousands of dollars of child support at one point she had to pay them child support she lost out on a year and a half of losing custody of her daughter does she have a relationship with her daughter oh yeah they are as close as can be now okay all right so that wasn't a Fallout you know there's a lot about the daughter um she's a brilliant smart young woman and um you know she she catches on to a lot of things during those years and so we we talk about that you know she talks about that but um you know nothing can can get that back for them um the damage was so deep and and honestly you know she hasn't you know and I I spoke to Jessa before doing anything like this and she said it was okay to share she she has she has never heard from her father since the sentencing there was no apology there was no nothing there was no oh my God I feel terrible so you know and all this fighting over custody and I'm trying to get her and now that she's an adult I don't have a relationship with her come on that really ticks me off you know the biggest loss is for for them not having Jessa in their life and and you know she misses her brothers terribly I hate that anything she could change that's that's what it would be you have to think of the damage that Amanda caused her I mean she was just a child and she's getting pulled all over the place spun all these lines a parent is dying the girl is wrongly placed but now she's also left with the guilt because she did have some of these um in kind services so like the tennis lessons and food and things and she feels guilty for that obviously brutally misplaced so she's left with with let's face it trauma and um again she's confising myself for Nancy and doesn't mind as saying because we we would never betray her trust but you know she's left with this and she's having to deal with the mental health repercussions of what this has done to her because this was her upbringing this was her time where she should have been this is her learned behaviors this is her influence this was her influence as a child and to be betrayed like that imagine imagine trying to trust people again no your your parents you know your dad and your stepmom let me ask you this um Amanda because we're wrapping up here Amanda is in prison still correct yes and Corey you know he's still married to her they're still married is there a divorce what what's happening you can't say uh yep as far as I know married okay and you know I'm sure raising the boys wow wow wow you know well you need to be very clear here uh Corey has not been implicated accused or anything as part of this investigation this is only Amanda C Riley that we are talking about we want to be absolutely clear there of course the question that many people have is wow like you know you live with someone and you presumably believe that they have cancer um how does he feel is he betrayed did he ever figure it out we have we don't know Dewey there's no insight into that I mean I have my personal Insight in it and how I feel it's like you know you're you're with someone and married with them since what 2010 they got together they went through you know all the blog social media telling everyone you know he would say I'm just getting back from chemo we you know I'm in the I'm her Rock she's he you know he went to every appointment with her according to them according to her by her side you know but he could have been in the weight room I I mean there's there's countless cases with special women you know what why because there's this case that I think of all the time it's a horrific case out of Texas where a woman pretended to be pregnant and the guy that she convinced that he that she was and you're like how can you be with a woman with a fake belly this whole time and you know the man got on the stand and said well I would take her for the appointment I would sit in the weight room you know there was always this explanation that explanation she showed him the sonogram the you know she would get changed in the bathroom or take a shower when you sleep do you see what I'm saying because I'm like how can you not know but he claims he didn't know like there's lots of photos of them together in hospital and together at chemo and uh it's not the person's responsibility ever to be like well why didn't you know it's always the responsibility of the person that committed the crime so I agree I think it's important um to say and he didn't he didn't they didn't go after him they went they went after her and it speaks to how people can manipulate you just gave that example of of that case because manipulation is it's so powerful and coercive control is so powerful so let's let's get to all the details about where you can find this great podcast the we know that the first episode of scamander was released on May 15th um and it's eight episodes and you take us through the whole Arc here and the episodes will be released how because I think when this podcast is released you'll be in the middle of of um all your episodes yeah so as you're listening it will be the third episode will have just been released and we have eight episodes potentially we might have a few more because we found out some things already um since it's released that we were trying to dig into uh so yeah there's even more of them than we yay we realized that we might be dropping some um bonus episodes as well but you can find it wherever you listen to your podcast um on Apple podcasts and everywhere else so make sure you check it out and do follow us and because we'll be dropping more into that feed um as as we're now uncovering even more so that's fantastic and it's called scamander very easy to find Commander but you also have a website you say Charlie where people can see some photos and some other things yeah lionsgatesound.com we've put um some photos on there so you can see I suppose have a visual of what myself is talking about and um but when you listen there's a you'll get to hear Amanda's Voice through her blog so you will be taken on the journey and get to hear what her blog posts were like terrific and what episode can we expect to hear the Shocker in court where where might that fall in you're not telling me okay that Telly no no that's the last episode yeah so everyone because people now are like oh my God I just want to binge this and I'm like oh sorry like it's coming out every week though so the land has since I I know the podcast was just released but have you heard from Amanda at all on this yet and oh I I haven't but I need to check because um we had quite a lot of back and forth recently just before the release and as of now she hasn't said no to so she's spoken to me but off the Record in a way and we've emailed and text and we're emailing through this through prison email yeah that whole Core Links thing I know yes and um which is interesting and some of the stuff she says is interesting and because she said there is more side to the story to this and so last thing I heard was that she was thinking about speaking to me but she would let me know but Nancy can't be there I'll talk to you but not Nancy definitely oh my gosh well I thank you so much Nancy and Charlie honestly this has been wonderful I love to have these discussions with fellow journalists and this is a case that I find so fascinating everyone and you can find this podcast and that podcast wherever you get your podcast also remember to subscribe to our YouTube channel to uh our newsletter until next week this has been a special episode of True Crime daily the podcast I'm your host Anna Garcia and as we always say don't do crime

Channel: True Crime Daily

Views: 674,538

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Id: Ur2ELrqLxJk

Length: 82min 36sec (4956 seconds)

Published: Fri May 26 2023