Plumbing Wastegates and Inside Look of Wastegate Internals: Motion 360

hey guys Doug here from ocean today I am plumbing the wastegates on my 72 Nova and I thought to myself what better way to explain how to do it than to just show you while I do it on my own personal car we get this question a lot we've posted diagrams but we figured we would just kind of give you a step-by-step show you the pieces involved in it so let's go ahead and just get started on my personal setup we're just using the dual Mack valve style setup one solenoid is going to act as an increase in one's gonna act as a decrease this is a really common setup they have a billet version now I'm not sure it's worth the extra money I honestly don't know if the ECU's even operate fast enough to use the additional speed that the new ones react at but these work just fine the solenoids are about 45 bucks apiece and we make this cool little mounting bracket here that comes with a tee and that way you can kind of pull all this together and just mount it with two simple bolts because it's really difficult to mount off those bolts originally and then we're going to be working with some precision wastegates i've already had these on the car they work great this is a turbo smart one but the one thing that all external wastegates have in common is they have a bottom port and that is going to be for pushing the diaphragm up in turn basically opening the valve and then they have one on top which is going to be for pushing on a diaphragm which is closing the valve against the seat so if you're not familiar with wastegate just a high-level overview the exhaust comes in as you can see from the headers into the bottom obviously if you're trying to make more boost you're trying to fold that valve shut so you're gonna apply a co2 on the top and hold that valve against the bottom there's a seat that goes in here so it'll seal just like a cylinder head when you're trying to bleed boost off or control boost you're going to take the pressure off the top of this and the boost pressure from the turbo which you obviously already have you're trying to get rid of boost will push the diaphragm up and turn opening the valve and as you can see that will allow things guess to bypass from the bottom here through here and an out a exhaust dump and as you can see on my particular combo I ran the exhaust dump out the side of the car as I mentioned the bottom quart actually gets hooked right to the turbos if you look on these turbos there's a port on these precision turbos and I already went ahead and put up push-to-connect fitting in it and this is basically positive boost pressure so this is going to be what helps you open the valve when you're trying to get rid of boost on a co2 setup you're not worried about what that is because you can always overcome it with the co2 you're putting on top so on any setup you definitely want to make sure you have that line hooked up because for instance this one we threw this car together in a hurry and I actually just left those disconnected when we went to Drag Week the first year and when we finally got the car to run it makes like 28 30 psi of boost instantly when there's no pressure trying to push the valve up this engine combo is so efficient you literally cannot control the boost it just goes right to the top so you need something for when you know your boost controller is trying to control things down it needs to have a positive pressure able to push up on it because your boost controller is going to apply pressure here even if it bleeds to zero if everything's pinned close it's just not going to open so that is an important line to hook up you will see that from time to time somebody that's running sailing a class like ultra Street or X 275 they will either plug or leave this piece open because basically those guys are trying to build boosts as fast as they possibly can and they might use a different strategy to control power off the line and they're basically just trying to slam that gate shut as fast as I can and have no force working against it I think maybe some pulling tractors and stuff like that also also on really big combos you'll actually see people do some different things with like a Mack valve in line with this so they will control it opening and closing so that they can basically kind of trick it into building boost real quick and then they'll use the Mack valve to open open and allow it to have pressure so they can bleed it off if they need to so that basically just closed it off so it's not helping them and then they'll open it up so it's working again so just a little bit of insight that's not going to be applicable for most people especially if this is your first co2 setup so make sure you hook up those ports to I will know if you slam the throttle blade close there's going to be no pressure behind here so you would want it to be in the piping up here to be perfect and more efficient so just something to consider when you're building your own project now the top portion of the wastegate like I said these are the same whether it's a turbo smarter of JDS or precision or tile whatever will have a port and like I said that is the pressure that's pushing down on a diaphragm the diaphragm is connected directly to the shaft that's moving the valve and so all we're trying to do here with co2 is put a certain amount of co2 and then that will hold the valve closed so if you're trying to make twenty pounds of boost theoretically if you have a good a well designed system 20-ish pounds of co2 or manifold or positive air pressure will make twenty pounds of boost plus the spring so if you have three or four pounds of spring you're gonna make twenty three twenty four pounds so but it will vary up and down depending on what the combo is how efficient how big the waste gates are in comparison but generally speaking we're trying to put co2 in here and what your solenoids will actually do is yeah like I said earlier you have an increased solenoid and a decrease so we're gonna put a sensor right here which will measure this you can also put the sensor actually right on the waste gate and so it's gonna see co2 pressure coming from our co2 bottle and regulator which is you set 60 to 100 psi just depending on preference of the tuner and yourself and the boost controller so it's going to see 60 to 100 psi here and it's the sensor that's reading what the actual pressure is right here is going to go into the computer the ECU or the boost troller and it's gonna say okay we need to add ten pounds of co2 pressure because we're only at 10 so it's gonna open this valve and the air is going to come out this port right here if this pressure gets too high this decrease solenoid is gonna open and all that pressure built up in this area here is going to release out here which is just an exhaust so it's constantly changing if you hear a dual solenoid set up on one of these it's always open and close open and close and open and closing now there's a thing called open-loop boost control and closed loop lose control so open loop lose control is simply we're monitoring how much pressure is on the top of the waste case so like I said before different changes can actually dynamically change how much 20 psi means to the actual boost of the car you add timing you subtract timing that type of thing recently I think AMS and LR systems was the first one to come out closed loop boost and what it does is it takes your actual manifold air pressure and it takes your top court on your wastegate dome and it compares it to so it's like in your boost controller you're shooting for 20 psi it's actually going to actively up and down your increase in decrease solenoid to try and hit that target boost level not co2 dome pressure levels so definitely make sure you understand if you're setting up an open-loop boost control or a closed loop lose control while it won't matter on how you plumb it it's definitely gonna matter on your strategy but that's more of a tuning topic we can talk about later one of the things I stress about co2 boost control is the fittings if you've seen the little cheap plastic fittings they tend to get brittle and break or leak even some of the metal fittings are not very good we've spent years basically trying to find a repeatable nice fitting that seals on both ends doesn't leak and still swivels and these fittings are amazing we switched to these a number of years back and actually have a nylon seal right here so you don't have to actually teflon tape them they'll work in a straight thread or an NPT thread so we have eighth inch quarter three-eighths in these style fittings and they seal up amazing which means a co2 can actually last a long long long time and of course the other component is a quality line one of the mistakes I see a lot of people make is they'll just grab whatever push-to-connect line they can find and there's not tons of difference but the thermal property has made a huge difference the cheap stuff that you'll find a lot of places does it hold up well to heat I mean just the ambient heat of the engine will just literally melt this stuff right apart and so somebody will come with a new build and have issues let's look at your line a lot of times it's melted or this is leaking a good indication of fittings or line leaking if you have the car on or off and turn the boost controller on and open your co2 bottle you can actually hear the solenoids pulsating that means that there's a leak in the system because it's trying to add and subtract co2 quickly to make up for it and with an active leak it's never going to maintain so when you turn your boost controller on and you have co2 it should you know make a quick buzz sound or clicking sound and get to a boost or a co2 pressure and then stay there it shouldn't be constantly pulsating if it's pulsating number one indication you have a leak and it's probably from some crap fitting so definitely consider if you're doing it from scratch find some nice fittings I'm really partial to ours we don't make them but we've sourced a fitting we can trust and we know doesn't leak and people have great success with them and they're super low profile with that nylon style seal so because this is a twin turbo setup and mine have actual fittings I'm actually going to just run a line from each turbo to the actual bottom part of the wastegate now you can actually see if you have a single turbo you can tee these lines as you can see if you had like just one turbo you can take it off the turbo it's not a big deal but in the interest of the fact that we actually have ports that we need we can go ahead and just run this line directly to where we need to go and that's good enough so what I do is I just go ahead and kind of mock it up one thing you want to consider even though this high high temp style line is just making sure that your line is not touching the hot side this should be good enough cuz it's far enough away you know I usually say you know probably three or four fingers or sup distance from a hot side is good enough especially on someone's actually rated for it sometimes you might miss it and sometimes you want I actually picked up these packs style plumbing cutters from Menard it's made to cut that nylon Peck stuff and that's another important part to not having a leaking fitting it just clamps right down on there and creates a nice flush cut so there's no edges no pieces hanging out a lot of times that's what will make a fitting leak is the fact it doesn't have a nice sealed surface to go in there so basically what I'll do is I'll just a zip tie this over here and that'll keep everything away from the heat source where it's actually gonna melt another quick note just like any fuel line as you're handling this stuff and it's been sitting around your shop in our shop and warehouses and all that stuff make sure that once you cut your piece you use some air and blow it out there can be little pieces probably not the most important for the actual wastegate but if that stuff gets into solenoids and sensors it can definitely damage cause things that hang open and not work properly now some people actually hardline these these lines right here and that's super cool looking I never do because I end up changing and working on stuff a lot and I I'm sure there's a lot of quality hard lines and stuff but it definitely adds the complexity of a the build and be maintenance seen you know if you've ever been tarred lines sometimes if you only have like one angle on them or something they get really tight to put on and off and then I'm also afraid of them cracking which also may not be an issue it's just something that I found this nighlok stuff to work really well it's really easy to handle and I don't really worry about cracking and stuff because when you're chasing down a boost leak or something being bad that's just not something I really want to deal with is making sure the fittings and the seals on the actual hard line and stuff are all good to go basically every time I bend up break lines I have a leak so I just think about that in my head I'm like I don't want chase boots leaks around so my personal preferences do nighlok that doesn't earn nylon push-to-connect it doesn't mean they're anybody else's wrongdoing hard line okay so one of the nice things is I've already decided I didn't like the line routing of that so I with this nylon you can actually reuse I mean you'll have to retake them every two seconds so if it wasn't nylon you would have to mock it up take it back apart or tape it every time so that's kind of a pain we're out a little bit better it seemed like that one when it went to there it's kind of running into stuff so now we can just kind of run this out and around straight in there okay so bottom ports are all plumbed I'm gonna set up like I said if you have a single turbo just T the line coming from the turbo or the piping and go to each one no big deal next thing we're gonna do is plumb the top courts two actual solenoids like I said before we have an in which is always going to be your number one solenoid number one port on your first solenoid you see we can't use that on the other one so that's gonna be your co2 in from your bottle in your regulator this port right here is going to go to the top of your waste gate or the dome so whether you have one waste gate or two you're gonna use the same solenoid so if the only difference is after it comes out of here if you have two wastegates you're gonna tee it and run one branch of the tee to each waste gates if you just have one way skate you're gonna run it right from here to the waste gate this setup I built for my Nova just I built it around being functional and being able to work on on the road because we take it on drag week and it just laid out in a manner that the waste gates are pretty close to the hood so typically what I would do is put the actual dome pressure sensor which is measuring the co2 or manifold pressure or compressed air at the actual dome right there because I don't have room for that this fitting is actually on this side is actually close to the hood it doesn't touch but it's close I can't put that there but normally on there's a lot of different waste gates and a lot of different styles if the fittings there and you need two ports aka one for the actual pressure and one for the sensor you would take one of these brass tees I suggest the brass tees they're stronger than the steel ones the steel ones you'll find or aluminum I guess will crack and that you'll just eventually find it in pieces and you'll be on a lot of co2 and you'll be unhappy and you'll lose the race so use a brass tee we sell them you can get them a number of different places this one is proven to be really live reliable and strong but you would screw that right into that port and you would have a sensor here and they co2 line there so it's basically going to measure and obviously that this line that's going in here would be t to the two so you can actually just measure pressure right off of one of the two waste gates and if you really wanted to get fancy you could measure both just so you have a knowledge of where they're both that but again no boost controller is actually going to control individual waste gates or at least not most most of them on the market will not so I went ahead and created a mount for this solenoid system down here near my headlight you'll notice it's very close in proximity to the waste gates if you have a sensor and solenoids they actually do respond you can see a pretty big change as you start to lengthen their distance from where they're reacting you can really see this on like a activated solenoid or activated pneumatic arm if you move the solenoids away from the arm like on our co2 parachute release you know every few inches you can actually see how much less pressure it has it's just very less impactful so keeping these close to these actual waste gates will make it more fast-acting and more effective as far as I'm concerned if fast is what you want you want that this line right here to be as short as possible so because I don't have room on the actual waste gates I'm actually going to screw one of these brass T's in right here and I'll monitor the pressure right here at the actual solenoids and then I'll tee after that and go forward to the waste gates or backwards to the waste gates okay so one last note I'll put this diagram in the description below in the comments or I guess the description area you can check it out you want to make sure these two ports are plugged there number three on both of the Mac valve solenoids this one doesn't actually have to have an elbow on it but because it's the exhaust for the decrease solenoid so basically when the when it's trying to bleed off it opens and dispenses to atmosphere but one thing you want to consider is if you have a straight shot into the solenoid being in an engine bay or somewhere where debris can get up in a piece of debris can actually get lodged in there which you don't want so I just do this because there's a really low chance of something getting up and taken and turn in a corner there pick up my solenoids and my line coming from that middle block which is coming off the brass block if you had your sensor mounted out of wastegate you would just come off that that Center port between the two Mac valves or whatever you're using and then we're gonna go basically what I'm gonna do is put a tee in right about down here and then I can shoot one branch crossed over to here and then one up to finish this one thing definitely want to you know say something is routed wrong and you're right this track for the first time it allows you to you know fix things and not have to start from scratch so this is the other style of solenoid you can see it just has too small what they call a bullet valve in it and in this manifold block now Holley fueltech and I think Hall Tech and a number of companies have these now they're really expensive I think the Hall Tech ones a lot less expensive than a Holley I'm not sure why it's so expensive but you can see the general idea it's got an inlet this would be your number one port when I was showing you an other Mack valves this is the center port which is that fitting it ties of the two together and then you have an exhaust right here which has no threads because it's just simply an exhaust so same concept all built into one and you'll see a lot of those out there as well I'm just fine using the Mac well the two of those tied together as I am this thing it saves you about 150 bucks hey guys so I really wanted to show you how the insides of a wastegate work if you've never taken one apart that makes a lot more sense once you see the internals and how things work so as I mentioned before you have a valve on the bottom when that opens I took the springs out of this one you can see it'll let hot gas bypass that hot gas is obviously what's driving the turbine side of your turbo so when that bypasses that it's essentially trying to take it away from being a turbocharged motor to just letting things bypass it's obviously gonna have some turbine speed but not much when you take this apart there's actually Springs inside of it but as you can see that valve on the bottom when I push I'll hold these this diaphragm in here but that valve is basically directly connected to this diaphragm and so you can see this thing move up and down you know when we put air on the bottom port here it goes below the diaphragm which is essentially pushing the diaphragm or the whole mechanism upward this is gonna be the same on a jgs wastegate where it's actually has a piston involved it's just a piston with Rinku rings instead of a diaphragm so put air on the bottom side it allows that to open so you can imagine if you don't have any pressure on the bottom side and you're trying to bleed off you know boost or pressure going into the turbine side it's not going to be very effective so being having that hooked up is essential to having a good boost control setup especially I'm something where you're not trying to make the max boost all the time now wastegates come pre-loaded with springs and they typically come with a variety of spring packages this is what was in this wastegate and you just you know I don't these aren't exact numbers but they give you readouts when you buy a wastegate so this might be like a three pound spring and this is a four pound spring and when you put them together they're say six or seven pounds they you know it's they give you a little chart that tells you what Springs to make what poundage so in a co2 application we will typically run the smallest spring possible so and that the reason why that we do that is because you don't need the spring to hold the valve closed if you were running a turbocharged setup and you were just running manifold pressure just running on what they call wastegate spring all the boost you're gonna make is what this spring makes if you hook up manifold pressure with a boost controller you can make roughly double of this so on a co2 setup say there's uses like a two three four pound spring put that in there and the reason why is because we don't all we're trying to do is put a spring in here so that it actually will close the valve back shut and have some tension on it if we start adding a 7/8 10-pound spring every psi of co2 is going to be additional to that so it's hard to regulate really low and obviously you would all the stuff on top would be added on there so like I said with a you know a non co2 controlled setup all you're gonna have for boost you know max boost is going to be what this spring is capable of and then if you add manifold pressure you can roughly double it so let's say we have three a three pound spring we add manifold pressure and we can now make six pounds roughly but with co2 you can literally go from what the smallest spring is so three pounds all the way up to two 300 psi of course your sensor that reads will have to go that high for it to you know all make sense but that's important on a setup call an import or a engine with two huge waste gates or a humungous turbo that's hard to spool a lot of those guys will actually apply like massive amounts of pressure on top of the wastegate dome they might put two 300 psi and it's basically trying to overcome the force of the engine so that they can really keep that thing clamped shut when the forces are working on it so that they can spool that humongous turbo and releasing the engine faster so that's a little bit more of an advanced thing but as you can see the hole here on the top of the wastegate is going to add pressure into this compartment and the waste gate itself seals that up so when you add pressure to the top you're essentially pushing the valve back down into the seat down here when you add it to the bottom it's pushing it up so you can imagine the kind of seesaw effect as your waste gate is trying to reach a certain co2 level or a boost level in a closed-loop situation so that's the inside of our waste gates relatively simple as I'm you'll see a diaphragm setup like this on the precision or tile or turbosmart jgs is another company that we carry they have a piston and I'm pretty fond of their waste gates the piston design is awesome the only issue with a diaphragm is that you know imperfections in the rubber or large amounts of co2 can actually rupture or tear the diaphragm and of course then you have no boost and no control and I've seen it several times and you know it's not a fun situation if you're at the track racing and you're on to the next round or whatever so the piston is super reliable super effective and even on the highest horsepower radial cars we've switched a few of them over to that piston design recently and they're really effective but for your everyday person even the Novo we just showed you you know making 1,500 to 2,000 horsepower this style of diaphragm wastegate works just fine also we're all done here I hope it all makes a lot of sense to you now as I had mentioned before I'm gonna put the diagram in the description on how you plumb this just remember if you have to wastegates you just tee the line it would normally go to one way scale as you'll see in the diagram that's made for just one waste case if you guys are interested in adding co2 to a project that you have or our building we have a really nice kit we have one with for a single wastegate one for a dual wastegate gives you all the lines fittings bottle regulator comes with an optional roll cage amount and basically you can have all the stuff we just used here you can easily install it in a and one night after work or on a weekend if you have any questions beyond that we're always here to help and happy to give you some direction and some assistance and advice sales at motion race works comm is a good way to contact us and then our 800 number I'll put below so thanks for tuning in guys hope this was helpful and we will see you next time [Music]

Channel: Motion Raceworks Official

Views: 70,735

Rating: 4.8817735 out of 5

Keywords: Turbo kit, wastegate, wastegate plumbing, wastegate install, wastegate plumbing diagram, co2 wastegate, turbo wastegate, blow off valve, turbo co2, turbo build, turbo camaro, turbo mustang, turbo kit install, turbo honda, racecar, drifting, drag racing, motorsports, turbo supra, how to build a turbo kit, turbo headers, wastegate flange, push lock fittings, push lock air hose fittings, turbosmart wastegate, JGS wastegate, precision turbo and engine, boost controller, boosted

Id: Xals0Pl-lfQ

Length: 27min 6sec (1626 seconds)

Published: Sun Mar 08 2020