Motion360 Ep 9: Choosing a Wastegate for your turbocharged application!

hey guys Doug here from Ocean Race work is here today to talk about waste gates so there's a lot of confusion especially if you're new to turbo charging as far as what wastegate works best for my set up how to set it up properly what all the ports mean and what the differences are between some of these different waste gates now we carry three different brains in stock precision jgs and turbo smart and they all are unique they're all good products that we believe in and used properly they'll work great for your setup so I'll show you some of the differences in this video as well as how to set it up for your car now within each brand there's multiple sizes so precision has a thirty nine a forty of forty six and a sixty six millimeter wastegate jgs has a forty fifty and a 60 millimeter and turbosmart has a forty forty five fifty and sixty millimeter so which one is correct for your combination i can go on for days about that but probably the easiest thing for something of that nature or that question is to just contact us directly our sales staff will be happy to help you size correctly you can oversize a waste gate you can also undersized a waste k if you undersized it your cars going to make too much boost if you oversize it you'll never be able to make the boost that you want to because it's too much gate for your combination so we've had luck with all three of these waste gates are both all three of them are quality products the main difference that you'll see here are the height and then obviously some design styles so both the precision and the turbosmart our diaphragm style waste gate so what they have is a rubber style silicone diaphragm in them so that when pressure is added here versus via the manifold or co2 or compressed air it actually activates a diaphragm and it holds this valve closed and the bottom of the wastegate so both the turbosmart and a precision are made with a diaphragm the JDS on the other hand is actually piston actuated and that's what makes up a lot of the extra height here so there's actually a piston that moves up and down inside of here again it moves the valve down here and holds it closed via the piston one of the unique things about the ggs is that there's no diaphragm to blow out so when there's no diaphragm to blow out that means that you can put as much pressure on that thing as you want and you don't have to worry about tearing or blowing up that diaphragm so that's kind of the unique thing about jgs now turbosmart just released their new compressed gas style wastegate so those are available in all the different sizes and what this does is they have an improved diaphragm design that allows you to put over 200 psi on top of the dome so the thing about that is if you have a combination it is struggling to make boost but can make boost you need to put more pressure on a diaphragm to make more boost because putting the standard one to one which is kind of a general concept isn't enough to make it make that boost so it's kind of a better way of forcing the boost so if you're not familiar with wastegates the general concept of this this is going to be plumbed off of your header or the pipe going to your turbo so what a waste gate does is it allows this is a port that's going to be coming off your header or the pipe that goes to your turbo and this valve actually opens so you can see it opens and allows exhaust through it so what this does is it allows the turbo to spool less hard to drain off the exhaust pressure and what this does is it make sure you don't make thirty pounds of boost when you don't want to make thirty pounds of boost on the opposite end of the spectrum to come in here and out here and this is either gonna dump to the atmosphere underneath the car outside the bumper or some guys plummet back into their down pipes now the opposite of that is that sometimes you want to hold that valve closed so you can spool a car or make or power overall and that's where the ports for the wastegate come into play so basically what we're doing is we're introducing you'll see this has a spring effect to it and so in this top hat there's a spring on all these different waste gates and you know this spring on the compress gates is three and a half pounds on this one it comes loaded they all have different spring rates that can come with it but generally speaking if you have a 10-pound spring it's going to make ten pounds of boost so what happens when you want to do to make twenty pounds of boost well you have to put pressure on top of the top hat and the one thing all three of these have in common even though they're different in nature is they all have a port on the top of the waste gate so that basically puts pressure pushing down on this valve to hold the valve closed when you want to make more boost or you want to spool the engine up and there's two or three I guess there's three different ways to put pressure on it plumb a line from your manifold with a solenoid and line which will open and close with manifold pressure the general rule of thumb that you can make twice the amount of spring pressure so if I have a 10-pound spring in one of these waste gates I can make twenty pounds of boost by putting manifold pressure in there the other thing is folks use co2 or compressed air so some guys have onboard air compressors and they put air on it and you can put as much as you want up until obviously 200 psi or whatever so if I put 50 psi in addition to the 10 generally speaking you're gonna have 60 pounds of boost now depending on your combination how everything's built and plumbed you'll have variances but that's just vehicle specific so the other port that is on a wastegate and all of them have it is the bottom port and basically this is on the opposite side of the piston or diaphragm if that makes sense so basically this port pushes a piston upward so for most applications they are an application where you're trying to make every boost you'll have a port that goes straight from the intake manifold or the turbo compressor housing straight to here this helps to prevent overboost situations this also helps open the wastegate back up so the other unique thing about the turbo smart waste gates is that they actually have a water port in here so basically this will help cool this whole housing so if you have waste gates they're in tight spots between the engine and turbo and there you have a chance of them overheating what you can do is run water lines in and out of that kind of a unique little thing so generally speaking I get a lot of phone calls from day to day and people say well which one is correct for my combination it's kind of like the Ford Chevy debate I'd say they all work I've seen all three of these on top-tier turbocharged applications so a lot of it is test etics do you want it to be water-cooled do not where does it layout cost there's different price ranges for all of this stuff and a lot of that depends on you know what you're trying to do with it and what what you look for in wastegates and layout one of the unique things about the turbo smart that I really like is how low-profile it is so it doesn't look a whole lot less tall than precision does but all of these waste gates when you actually go to plumb them up you need to have a pressure transducer on the top so generally speaking we use this brass tee which is included in our co2 kit and you're either gonna have a eight inch NPT fitting here or you're gonna have a sensor here so this gets rather tall as you go and then as far as the ggs goes this one also is just tall in general so one of the cool things that turbosmart did is they made it not only low-profile but they have the ports coming out low on the top so you can actually screw this little brass tee in here and run your pressure transducer right here so basically you're effectively shrinking the whole thing down by a good bit they put two ports on the top which is very nice you actually don't need a tea unless you're trying to save that space you could just run your transducer straight onto this one and you could run your feed fitting right here under this one and to me I've encountered a lot of tight engine bays as you will as well and that makes a huge difference in the whole layout of your setup so one of the age-old debates is do I need a big single waist gaitor than I need two small ones and the answer is it depends because on a ultra street car or an X 275 car generally speaking those guys are like trying to pin the wastegate shut from 0.5 seconds on so they're not trying to bleed off a ton of excess pressure but that might vary if you have a high horsepower car and you want to control a lot of power if you're doing no prep racing where you want to leave on five pounds and put 50 pounds on the car down the track then yeah you're gonna need to control as much air flow as possible so for that reason I generally just suggest people run twin wastegates and it gives you a lot better control so now you're not trying to merge the pipe and then also merge the wastegate itself you can just put a waste gate off of each header optimally place them so that they'll flow the air through and catch everything it needs to and you have enough that you can get rid of all the exhaust that you don't want and control the power and for most applications especially small tire stuff controlling the amount of boost controlling the power is one of the most important things you can do less with more if you can get off the line if you can make a boost ramp that gets you down a track every time and controls the power that's important so for that I usually just tell people whether you have a single turbo set up with twins you have to run two wastegates if you have a single turbo set up just run twins it'll save you a lot of time and hassle and it doesn't make plumbing it and running all of the tubing it's not such a careful science at that point and you don't have to just hope that you had enough so the next question I get with dual waist cubes is how do i hook them up I only have two solenoids so here is your general two solenoids setup guys using Mack valves Humphrey bounce there's a new bullet Mac valve out there so whether you're running a single setup or twin setup we made this nice little bracket here for mounting them you used to have to kind of drill holes and try and make your own bracket but this bracket is pretty sweet for 20 bucks $24.99 you'll like it and appreciate that we showed it to you but generally speaking you need one set of solenoids whether you're running a single waist gaitor twins and how does that work so your feed line from your co2 regulator is going to come into this port right here check out this diagram I'm posting right now so your feed line is gonna come into this port right here and basically what's going to happen is when you want to increase boosts it lets flow through to here which goes out to here this what this line is going to your waste gates if it's trying to bleed off your co2 or compressed air or manifold it's gonna let it out here which is basically an exhaust so feed in exhaust out so this line would go to your single waste gate but it's also going to go to your twin waste gate basically you want your waste gates operating in tandem so what we do is any line that would normally go to one waste gate just goes to - you put a tee like this in line with your push connect and then you run one line this way and one line this way so what this does is it balances the pressure between the waste gates because the last thing you want is one side of the engine making twenty pounds of boost and one side of it making thirty or at least depending the gate shed on that level because you're gonna just have a real hard time with everything that's between tuning - all the way to boost control so this is how you set it up also the bottom parts as well ut those and straight to the manifold as well and a lot of people ask if you need to pressure transducers no because these lines are gonna equalize so fast that likely the computer is not going to get get it it's fast so you can put your Center on one wastegate tee the lines to the other side and that's how you set up a twin-turbo compressed air co2 or manifold pressure set up since the precision and jg s do not have two ports a guy could actually drill and tap another hole on either side anywhere on these domes is typically fun you just want to inspect the bottom to make sure there's no spring pockets or whatever but an easy solution to that if you're trying to put a sensor on top of it whether it's a single or twin is to put one of these brass tees on it I always use this style brass tee it's strong Sebastian from AMS 2000 showed me along ago the last thing you want to do is put a cheap aluminum or steel and because the weight of this will actually bounce and break that T off and you know you're going into the final round of eliminations you don't want that thing to break off which is why we include it in our co2 kit so whether you have the sensor on top or the sensor on the side this allows you to have your port in and your sensor in the same location and that's also why we include it in the co2 kit so if you haven't seen these push-to-connect hoses we sell them a lot of people sell them we like the ones we use we've tested a million times and they don't leak the biggest problem is some of the cheap versions these leak the chinese crap ones you get off eBay they're plastic they leak all over the place and basically I think that's how a co2 boost control got a bad rap this would leak out and one bottle would be gone in a day if you get good quality fittings that don't leak a co2 two and a half pounds of co2 bottle lasts forever and ever I mean I'll have it lasts a full year you're not using a ton of it another thing that I should note is use good quality line that's thermal resistant and a good set of cutters that are sharp and will slice through the line and not leave an edge these ones came from Menards I think and they're I think they're pecks cutters from the plumbing department but you'll see when I squeeze down on them it leaves a perfect edge if you try to cut this with a pocketknife it'll leave something and then when you stick it in there with the wrong edge it's not gonna it's going to either hold it up and not seat properly but that thing just goes in there nice and smooth and it gives you a good edge and that's the key to keeping a co2 system that lasts forever without having to refill it so the last question I get is should I run a single solenoid setup or should I run dual so with that whether you're running a co2 or compressed air I always say run a dual this gives you the ability to put air in and air out with a single solenoid your ups and downs are a lot slower or less controllable this is gonna actively monitor the pressure on the gate so that when you're trying to make 10 pounds of pressure on the gate you're actually making 10 problems of pressure on the gate is gonna in and out to equalize that and hit its actual target so whether you're running on EFI system or an external boost controller like an AMS mm or a hyperactive or something it'll give you the ability to do that so I always suggest running a twin solenoid system so these are example of the Springs that come with precision waste gates you'll put either a combination one or multiple of these Springs in on the top hat when you unscrew this top hat there will be a spring inside of there they come pre-loaded with a spring but they have a chart that tells you if you want to put ten pounds on there put these two springs and if you want to make 15 put this now that's not a perfect rule of thumb because depending on how things are plumbed and housed what size motor you're using compared to the gate size it might make above or below that but that's always a general good starting point the best thing on a new combo is to just run it with no nothing on top of the gate and see how much boost it makes that'll give you a good idea of this so this will be your base when you add 10 pounds of co2 it's going to be 10 pounds in addition to whatever it made with nothing hooked up so if it makes if you have a 7-pound spring in it and it makes 9 pounds of boost you're gonna say that's a 9 pound spring now and then I add 10 pounds it's 19 pounds so that's kind of a little breakdown on this now be careful when you're disassembling these depending on what they're loaded with you need to have a buddy or put this in a vise with soft jaws and undo these and slowly let it apart it'll shoot that top hat right through the roof hit you in the face everybody's had it happen to one time or another so we'll do a few more videos on co2 wastegate control and wastegates in general in the future but this gives you a good start and understanding of not only how the waste gates work but the differences in the 3 that we sell and like I said before everybody has their own preferences we'd be happy to discuss your combination and pick out the right waste gate for you so thanks for tuning in to another episode of motion 360 our goal here is to educate you so if you're switching from nitrous or supercharger is your first build it all makes more sense so thanks for tuning in stay tuned we got more to come [Applause] [Music] you [Music]

Channel: Motion Raceworks Official

Views: 77,026

Rating: 4.640625 out of 5

Keywords: Racecar, Turbochargers, Fabrication, Wastegate, Drag Racing, Twin Turbo, Boosted, precision turbo and engine, turbosmart wastegate, jgs wastegate, motion raceworks, turbo kit, boost control, precision 66mm wastegate, jgs 40mm, turbosmart 40mm, 44mm wastegate, turbo wastegate, race car, cars, boost, 7675 precision turbo

Id: 9Y5ab9i_tFI

Length: 18min 2sec (1082 seconds)

Published: Mon Dec 17 2018