Origins Of The Nephilim | 3 Primary Views | Tim Chaffey

who are the Nephilim where did they come from and how did they survive or return after the flood in this episode of theology applied I'm welcomed to the show Dr Tim chaffy to discuss the three most popular views in regards to the origins of the neph you're not going to want to miss this episode applying God's word to every aspect of life this is theology appli in this episode I'm very privileged to welcome to the show for the first time Tim chaffy Tim chaffy thanks for coming on hey Joel thanks for having me it's great to be with you absolutely so this is what we're going to be discussing we're actually going to do something a little bit unusual we've done it well at this point we've done it once before so I had Joshua shuping we did a three-part series on Eastern Orthodoxy and it was really helpful to just there are some topics that just need a little bit more time and so we're going to actually make this a multiple part series and we're going to be discussing your book it's called fall in the sons of God and the Nephilim and so I'm excited to get into this but first can you just introduce yourselves who do you work for what do you do and and what made you want to write a book about Giants and Nephilim and Watchers and fallen angels and all that stuff sure uh yeah so some people may recognize me I work as the content manager for the arc encounter in the Creation Museum so uh the attractions division of Answers in Genesis and uh I guess might as well just lead with that as a Ministry AIG does not take an official position on a lot of the things we're going to be talking about so the views that people are going to be hearing are my own and don't necessarily represent those of AIG um you know we have people there who will disagree but we can still work together and uh you know for the the cause that we're called to to do uh at that Ministry and U and get along just fine uh so so that's fine I just want people to know that I'm not I'm not saying that the arc encounter teaches what is saying right now that's K I hear you loud and clear Ken Ham absolutely believes everything we're about to talk about that's what so much though that he his nickname for me no joke on this part is nefil Tim that's hilarious that's funny okay part of it I'm I'm 6 fo8 6'9 and so I've been called Nephilim more times than I could count um and yeah people don't even understand that they're using a plural term so they're call in a sense they're calling me Giants rather than just giant uh but um so that actually is one of the things that piqu my interest in this topic the number of times that people had called me something like that and um you know when you see the word giants in the Bible what is going on what is it just tall people like you see in the NBA because that's how I hear a lot of people explain it but then when you are reading scripture it's like this seems something it's very very different than what we're experiencing today and um so about 12 13 years ago when I was working in my THM I had to to do a thesis and I thought well surely there's some um good scholarly material on this topic and and I had trouble finding some and I thought you know what this might be a really good topic to do as a thesis there were there were a lot of you know YouTube was still sort of in its infancy so there weren't as many videos about this topic like there are now um but there are a lot of websites and blogs that had a maybe they had what I would consider to be the right view but they would get into all sorts of fantastic and speculative things and I thought no we we need to have a very serious bible study on this topic and so that's what I set out to do and I finished my thesis that that back in 2011 and ever since then for the next eight years or so I was working on this project in between all the other stuff that we were doing you know during that time at at work we were building the arc encounter and so I was a little bit busy during so there I didn't have a lot of free time to be working on this project project but I knew there was so much more that I couldn't get into in my thesis and uh I wanted to make it lay level I wanted it to be something that would be um you know for the average person to be able to grasp uh started off pretty easy but eventually does have to get pretty deep um and so it took me about eight years from that point to uh turn out this book that's almost 500 pages and I don't think I ever want to write one that thick anymore that's the lot of writing um but it was uh fascinating to explore that I I wondered when I first set out to do my thesis how can I do you know 15 pages roughly on four verses of the Bible or five verses Genesis 6 1-4 and then numbers 1333 and then I realized there's a lot more to it than just that and I thought how can I keep it to 150 pages right yeah so we can real quick and we'll go ahead and get into it for the listeners so so we we want to do three different views of the origins of of the Nephilim but real quick before we do that where can people get the book if they if they want to purchase a copy yeah so it'll be available on Amazon it's also on my own website which is uh I I have a Ministry on the site called risen Ministries uh so if it the website is just risen men.com uh men is short for Ministry so risen men.com and it'll be available there as well great okay so let's let's get into it the you because people disagree over this Christians disagree over this and from what I found you know reading your book and I was already aware of this from some of my own reading but um The View that you hold to and I hold to it as well uh the Fallen Angel View is a view that has not been very popular at least um for the past several centuries of church history um it seems like it was maybe the original view but but fairly early on within the first few hundred years that some other View came into play so three main views of the origins of the Nephilim what are those yeah so the this passage goes back to Genesis 6 beginning at verse one when it talks about how so right after you have the uh the descendants of Adam through Seth and then in chapter four you have the descendants of Adam through Cain uh those that's what sets this was right before this then it you get into really the flood narrative uh beginning with Noah at the end of chapter 5 and then in Genesis 6 says the that it came about when men began to multiply on the face of the Earth and daughters were born to them that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful and they took wives from whomever they chose and then you skip down to verse four and it talks about how the Nephilim were on the earth in those days and so you have this passage is talking about the sons of God marrying the daughters of men and having children with them it talks about the Nephilim and and people have wondered for years what is going on here so the the three primary views if you're trying to identify who the sons of God are because that'll help you understand who the Nephilim are one view uh the one that has been the dominant view throughout church history from about the time of Augustine uh so around 400 ad up until about 1900 it was the the dominant view it's called The sethite View so those two chapters I just mentioned Genesis 4 mentioning the line of Cain Genesis 5 mentioning the line of Seth uh the people who hold that view will say well the line of Seth was The Godly line from Adam to Noah and then this line of Cain is a rebellious line so what you had is men from the line of of Seth being Godly so they're the sons of God marrying the daughters of men these ungodly and so that's the sethite view the another view that came up actually was developed before the sethite view at the end of the first century early 2 Century among uh rabbis and then not until about the the 3r century in the church was uh something called the uh the I call it the royalty view or the uh some people would look at it as like the um Divine judges the atill of the Hun view the atill of the Hun view right that's yes the rulers who think that they're Divine or judges who think they're Divine and so their their sons who would be you know princes or something like that could be called sons of God Sons of the deity in a sense and so that was and then their sin was it says that they um took Wise from whoever they chose so they were polygamous marriages they were bringing in uh women into their herum and so that was the sin that was going on there the earliest view as far as we know it dates back um to the inner testamental period there are numerous um Jewish writings at this time that talk about this and I think you can find even earlier sources in in other places that um refer to uh Angelic beings who have who were the sons of God uh the the Hebrew there Ben Elohim they were um they they came down married women had uh children with them and those Offspring were the Nephilim uh so the word Nephilim just means Giants uh there are a lot of websites videos out there that'll tell you it means Fallen ones it doesn't um it's a you won't find that in any of the lexicons you won't find in academic commentaries and and the reason for that is because it just simply doesn't um it doesn't mean that so um those are the three views and then for about 1900 years people have been debating and disagreeing and hopefully doing it in a cordial way and um a civil way understanding that this does not it's not self ific so we don't have to um condemn anybody who disagrees they allowed to be wrong that's what I say all the time there you go there you go so let's uh so we want to get into the Fallen Angel View for our purposes but before we do let's uh um let's have you poke a few holes in the other two views especially the sethite view because that's probably the most popular that I encounter with good brothers in Christ guys who we would agree on um a ton of not not just primary Doctrine but a ton of other secondary doctrines we would be in the same camp same theological tribe 98% but uh this would be one of the things that we would differ in and again like you said it's not something to divide over but uh this seems to be kind of um I I don't know I maybe sometimes I feel like people just want to be sophisticated and Fallen Angels just seems too fanatical you know and like so oh the sethite Pew I'm very you know so you but anyways you made a good case um you know I haven't finished the book yet but I I did read some of your work on The sethite View that that has you know some backing but you poke some good holes in that so could could you show us why maybe twofold why is a sethite view compelling where's the biblical Merit um but then where does it potentially fall short yeah so so I have a whole chapter dealing with the The sethite View here are the the arguments used in in favor of it and here are some of the the problems with it so let's start with the arguments for uh immediately before Genesis chapter 6 you have this discussion of the line of Seth and the line of Cain so contextually you can make the argument that's what was just talked about um but there are there are some that's about it as far as the arguments for other than there no that's not quite true there there are other passages later in the New Testament where um humans you know Believers are called sons of God um but one thing that people don't if you pay very close attention that nearly every single case it's future it's something that we will become or that we that will be revealed we're not in in we're positionally there but we're not it has not been fully realized yet the creation itself groans with eager expectations for the sons of God to be revealed so so that's so you mentioned that and I noticed in the book what you didn't mention and I'm curious your thoughts on this I I can't remember it might be clid of Alexander was he a sethite guy one of the earliest I'm trying to think of one of the earliest oh to go back and look at the chart at the end I've got yeah no no no worries it's but I think it was if I'm right it was Clement of Alexander and it was uh Alexandria and uh and it was his view that uh the reason why uh sons of God the sethite view the sons of God were the line of Seth was not so much because you know in the New Testament Believers are called sons of God but because of the genealogy that I believe is uh the Gen genealogy you already referenced in Genesis 4 that it goes through this line or no it might be another one it might be in Genesis right before Babel um or U but it goes you know so and so begot so and so begot and it goes all the way up to Adam right so it says you know Seth son of Adam and then it says Adam Son of God and uh and so I've heard some guys within the SE Luke okay then that's what that's what I'm thinking okay thank you so so I I I think it might I could be wrong about it being Clement but um so he's using Luke so I was wrong about that but using Luke and then saying all right so here are the sons of God and you have the sons of men you know Cain goes and builds you know the city of man and then you have um you have Adam who is the Son of God and this is Adam's good and godly line through his his other son Seth and so that that's the biggest argument I've heard of sons of God but that's that's it but that seems to pale in comparison to yeah so let's let's take it apart then let's show why it doesn't work um so CL I just looked real quickly Clement was a fallen angel guy okay um yep The seive View doesn't come along till a couple hundred years after maybe I'm just thinking of Augustin that could be yeah Augustin clearly held the sethite view and pretty much once he promoted it that's what it that was the dominant view in church history up until about 100 years ago augus does have that effect he does yeah um I'm I burned out on Augustine during my doctoral program I had a whole class just oh 5,000 pages of reading and and 50 pages of writing that was that's too much Augustin at least for me some people really like him and I'm yeah he he was smart I'll say that but um so the the follow the The seive View some problems um one you're forced to change the meaning of the of the word man multiple times in that passage Genesis 6 1-4 so when men began to multiply on the face of the Earth then daughters were born to them okay clearly that's Mankind in general in verse one and then in verse two it says that the sons of God saw the daughters of men suddenly it doesn't refer to the daughters of men that were just talked about in verse one it only refers to one line just Cain what about the other lines from Adam Adam and Eve had other Sons and Daughters Genesis 54 says so why are we why are we limiting it to just two lines and why would those marriages is you know believer marrying unbeliever why would it produce the Nephilim giant Offspring when believer and unbeliever don't do that today and have not historically as far as we know um why would these men in the line of Seth that they're Godly which the Bible never said they were other than Enoch who walks with God and Noah Who Walks With God Noah's father lamech you can probably uh make the case you know he's longing for rest from the curse the that the of the ground that God had cursed um so there's an acknowledgement there so there's an assumption read onto the top that all of these guys are Godly there's an assumption read on the top that all the people on Cain's line are ungodly when it the text doesn't tell us that clearly Cain was and clearly TUC or not lch tuan's father was he's a polygamist and a murderer um but the the text doesn't tell us those things about those individuals um one another problem with that is the only line between those too the Seth the line of Seth and the line of Cain the only one that mentions daughters is Seth's line over and over every generation Sons and Daughters Cain's line never mentions daughters it only mentions a son so why would the daughters of men be from the line that never mentions daughters um and how do you get the Nephilim on the Earth again after the flood if this um the can's line is gone wiped out in the flood and suddenly they're back again the sethite view can't account for any of those details and so I mentioned how they have to change the meaning of the word men um in verse one it's it's Universal all men verse two it's just men in the line of Cain verse three where God said my spirit will not strive with Man Forever he is indeed flesh his days shall be 120 years it's back to all of men and then verse four when the sons of God saw the daughters of men oh it's back to just this one line and verse five it's back to all so there's no hermeneutical warrant for doing that what I found is the the strongest argument for the seite view or the most popular argument is usually not a positive argument for the sethite view it's more of a an anti- Fallen Angel View we don't like the the idea that Angels Came in out of this or we don't think that they can do this because maybe Jesus said they can't or whatever reason they give therefore the alternative must be the seide view and so it's not so much a positive case for their view it's a negative case against one of the others but they seem unaware that there are other views as well that are not the Fallen Angel View such as the royalty view so a an argument against the Fallen Angel View is not a argument for it's not that view finally a coffee company that doesn't hate you and your beliefs today's sponsor squirly Joe's Coffee is a thoroughly Christian company that ships seriously good coffee straight to your front door owned and operated by Joe Morris and his family out of only Illinois they believe that Christians should be building a thoroughly Christian economy by doing business with other like-minded Christians they also donate a portion of their proceeds to operation 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parallel Christian economy Again by going to Farmer bspr visions.com all right so then let's let's talk about the royalty view now uh what what are the problem problems with that yeah so that's the one that says that the these rulers judges Kings thought they were divine as some ancient near Eastern Kings viewed themselves you know think of pharaoh supposed to supposedly the the son of a God and some other ancient NE Eastern Figures were like that um so their sons would be sons of that God in a sense but um the whole argument that they took wives and they're bringing them into their Herms that sounds bad in English doesn't it they they took wives from whomever they chose well until you realize the rest of Genesis Abraham took coutura as wife after Sarah died um Isaac took Rebecca did he force her into a marriage or was did she have the choice when Abraham's servant went you know to laan and um she went willingly yeah so it it was just the Hebrew idiom for marriage it's it's not saying that they were forced into this at all they were willing participants uh so the the whole basis for that view falls apart um it's very questionable as to whether or not they're really were that many um rulers within that area that ever viewed themselves that way it's kind of a common um among liberal Scholars they they repeat that over and over again and yet a lot of the arguments they use for it um don't the Kings don't actually believe that and so there there's not much basis for it but this view is gaining popularity among Scholars today so the seite view seems more popular among lay people whereas this one seems to be growing in popularity among Scholars but the earliest mention of this view goes back to about 90 ad uh late first century after um after the temple was destroyed you had the rabbis kind of um in a sense I'm going to say I hope I can say this in a way that doesn't seem derogatory but kind of reinvent the Jewish faith in a sense that the temple is no longer there the sacrificial system's out there so how how does Judaism work now that we don't have this and there's some serious Reinventing yeah I I I appreciate you not trying to be derogatory but um as a covenant theology guy I'm I'm not a big fan of Zionism so uh you will not offend me probably not my audience but go ahead I might offend myself yeah there you go yeah try not to offend yourself but you're good on this side but um so at that time actually you had a few different rabbis who who promoted the uh royalty view or this this Divine judges View and um threatened excommunication for anybody who held the Fallen Angel View even though that had been the dominant view in a Judaism up until that time and you can see that in uh so many of the in testamental Period writings all about this topic and so that's the first time that you had something other than the Fallen Angel View being promoted as as far as we know I mean among any of the writing that are still that came into play a few hundred years before the sethite view sounds like Len okay okay and and with that view again it's just it's the idea of you've got Kings and then these Kings you know purporting to be sons of God and they're taking and it's a forceful taking like this you know uh it's it's polygamous and it's taking women against their will and and having a a massive herum and that's why I said earlier you know tongue and cheek but like the Atilla the Hun Theory you know but like that you know still to this day from what I've heard that a lot of people can trace their lineage um to a Tilla the H Han because he had a ton of children um and and but there was there was an intent behind that it wasn't only perversion it certainly stemmed from that it was sinful but um but it was it was about lineage it was about ly it was about you know I am this amazing Renown you know God you know or or son of a God you know kind of this this deity kind of you know dem God of a of a man and I want you know my line to continue forever and so I'm going to have you know 10,000 kids or whatever um but that that's the view right the royalty view is the idea it's not just kings are the sons of God and they had a few Offspring but that they were trying to they were trying to continue forever their their line by having hundreds each individual King dozens or hundreds of children for one king um through multiple wives right that they took by force that's the view uh presumably yes yeah that you are you're setting yourself up as the ultimate ruler and therefore you have the right to take these women and have as many as you want and so it's perverting the created order it's you know that's um one man one woman for life and um so that would be the great sin um obviously they're not saying that's the only sin Before the Flood uh because the whole world is filled with violence and wickedness and but that was be the the primary sin that kind of leads to the the triggering of the flood which is a little strange in both cases because all those things have continued on After the flood without any sort of massive judgment like that you've had unbeliever marrying believer you which um doesn't lead to doesn't yield Giants it doesn't lead to a world flood of course there's not going to be another one God said there wouldn't but it doesn't lead to massive judgment like that and same thing with these rulers who have Herms that it doesn't lead to that sort of thing so something there seems to have been something else going on that was far more provocative and um that's yeah that's a really good point because it's um you know you and I both like we're Christians so so we believe that um that there will be people who who spend eternity apart from God in under his white hot wrath and and just judgment forever so like we're we're not saying you know our VI as as just Bible believing Christians that's just a Biblical Christian basic view we're not saying that um that God would you know hey God that seems rash or that seems a little bit overboard with a little bit of an overreaction we're not saying that it would be wrong or unjust on God's part to to flood the world and and to kill people because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God um but the issue is just but this is unique this isn't something that happens every other day um this is unique instance and if it's certainly you know people people have always been depraved people apart from Christ we're we're totally depraved even with Christ we still have the sinful flesh sin still resides within the members of our being and God is totally just God is obligated to save no one and he would be just to destroy everyone but this particular thing it it that that's what really got me thinking because I always taught it and you know this and and I know that you and I we'd have some differences and you're you're kind of it sounds like you're Undeclared and that's fine I'm not going to try to push you to take aide but I you know we talked on the phone that I'm a calvinist and so for me no total depravity that's a that's a tenant you know and so for me I you know it's like when I preached the flood um in my my earlier pastoral days I would you know really land the plane on um God would be totally just to flood the world again right now you know or I'm you know and I'm kind of shocked he hasn't flooded the world a thousand times you know and like you know because you you know that that typical calvinist you know big on sin you know slamming you know the pulpit and um but now I I think I still stand by that God would be objectively just um but it it seems like it's more than God just punishing sin um because God has he reserved a final and eternal punishment for sin um it seems like there's something like you said something unique and provocative not just polygamy not just um even forceful marriage or or rape um and and not just uh inner marriage between one group of people and another because even that it's funny it's this if the sons of God are the line of Seth and it's like all right men do your job and convert these these Daughters of Cain you know what I mean like disciple your wife like and and why are they if they're Godly why are they constantly marrying ungodly women right exact exactly yes occasionally that happens but occasionally all of them to the point din right and back to your point earlier we don't have a single daughter mentioned in the line of canaa I'm sure he had had daughters but um well one of them is named but never used the word daughter so the sister of Tubba K is not gotcha okay thank you but but the point is you know it's still it it just logically wouldn't make sense if all the male offspring of of Seth are marrying all the you know the the daughters of you know then you know what's happening to all of Seth daughters do they just not get married or or you know by force I guess they have to marry you know all the sons of so it just doesn't make my point is um it seems like something provocative I like the way that you said that something sinister terrible is happening that is has never really happened since or or maybe kind of but something you know something very unique that God is Not Just punishing but it's a protection he's wiping something dangerous off the map what what yeah can you so can you just talk about that a little bit about what so what is it so now I think we're ready for the f an angel VI what what is it that you think was actually going on yeah so the terminology that's used in that passage the sons of God I mentioned before benha Elohim that's the Hebrew it's used in a few other places you have it in Job 1 verse 6 where it says there came a day when the sons of God that's the term came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan also came among them same thing in verse chapter 2 verse one almost word for word uh it's when Satan goes before before God and they're talking about job and what can be done and then it's also used job 387 uh when it talks about how the morning Stars sang together and the sons of God shouted for Joy so it's used right there talking about creation and it's before man so that term doesn't refer to mankind it's referring to some sort of heavenly being in that passage um and they're they're paralleled you know Hebrew poetry you know so much of it based on parallelism with the morning Stars so it's Angelic beings is what's being described here um the other place that's found other than than Genesis 62 and 64 is in Deuteronomy 328 uh and there you have um in MO a lot of our English Bibles they say sons of Israel rather than sons of God and you'll see a little note that says the the Dead Sea Scrolls and the has um sons of God Ben Elohim the um but the context doesn't make any sense for Sons of Israel he's talking about when God divided the Nations at Babel Israel didn't exist yet he says he divided them according to the number of the sons of God not Israel and so that passage uses uses that as well and there's very similar terminology in the Psalms that talks about the Benet elim sons of the mighty and it's referring to Angelic beings I think that's in uh chap Psalm 29 and the other one I think is 89 off maybe 87 off top of my head I'd have to look at the book again um so all of that terminology in Hebrew very clearly referring to Angelic beings now when you read the passage um what it's if you think about the context so we're told about the the fall in Genesis chapter 3 God promises that there's going to be the a seed of the woman who's going to crush the head of the serpent and um then from that point on you see corruption you know take take hold the world and you see it uh presumably getting progressively darker and darker until the time of the flood when the thoughts of man's heart were only evil continually and God was grieved that he had made man uh but something was going on at that point that Genesis 6 tells us at the beginning that the sons of God saw the daughters of men so women in general Heavenly beings and they took wives from whoever they chose and they had children with them well verse four tells us who those children were it says the Nephilim were on the earth in those days and also afterward and and we'll get into this I think probably our second session we wanted to deal with this more but the key word in that whole passage if people understand this next word that sons of God or I'm sorry the Nephilim were on the earth in those days and also afterward this next word is so key whenever the sons of God did this now most English translations will say when the Hebrew word there is aser and you can look at our Hebrew they will tell you that that word in this construct that should be used or should be translated whenever so whenever the sons of God did this that's when the Nephilim were on the earth so the Nephilim are The Offspring is what that passage is telling us the other views will say no maybe Giants were already there when this happened it just because if it's just the word when it could be that they're The Offspring or maybe they're just already around and it's very ambiguous you don't even know why it's mentioned but if it's translated properly and the word is whenever now we understand exactly what that passage means when versus whenever makes a big difference yeah yes it does um and so what's so something awful is going on there's a it seemed to be a Corruption of of humanity um and perhaps that's what the goal was I think there might be another goal as well um at least maybe for the women um so for the rebellious Angels their goal maybe is to corrupt that line so that to cut off the Messiah yeah so that the Messiah can't be the seat of the woman in a sense he going to be the seat of a of a rebellious Angel because you're saying they knew right they knew the promise that God had given you know wrapped up in the curses that are dealing out and you know into the serpent that that you know put imity between you know your Offspring and the woman and um her Offspring and you and and uh he will you know strike your you will strike his heel but he will crush your head and so you're saying that these these Fallen Angels they were very clear on that they were very aware and so it might have been a ploy to try to say like well we know that eventually there's going to be and and you could even say with that I feel that you could even say that maybe you know Satan possessing the heart of Cain to murder his brother thinking well maybe Abel is it maybe he's the seat you know maybe it's a first generation kind of thing and so by possessing you know sin crouching at your door you know desires to have you Genesis 4 it's like a a two birds one stone situation I can corrupt Cain and kill Abel you know and then but then God is gracious and gives and oh we got to do something about SES line now and so yeah back to you yeah I think that's exactly right and and what would be now I'm going to speculate a little a little bit more on this part as far as the the the the women you know why would they take part because the the wording there is not that they were forced into this they were willing participants uh and you know a lot of people they react strongly to the whole idea they think oh why would Women Marry demons or something that's how they think like these medieval to wardy Horns you know Fork tail all that kind of um think Thor think um think something more like that um and so from because Satan manifests as an angel of Light and his ministers can do the same thing so um they're not going to appear as these horrible awful things from so from just a physical perspective that nobody's going to look at that and say that's gross um of course spiritually speaking we would look at that and say that's that's awful that's that's abominable but um I think there's something else that may be going on there um because man originally was created to live forever and it's not until they eat the fruit that now they're going to die they're kicked out of the garden so they can't eat from the Tree of Life and live forever um but what if you if so consider a woman at that point what if she marries somebody who doesn't die and has Offspring with somebody who doesn't die um what would The Offspring be like could they maybe live forever and so what's right in the middle of that passage about the sons of God in the Nephilim verse three of Genesis 6 the Lord said my spirit will not strive with man or remain in Man Forever uh for he is indeed flesh that his days shall be 120 years originally man is supposed to live forever but then they sin then their days are cut to like the 900s nobody as far as we know breaks a thousand um so God gives them a long time to live but look how Wicked they became look at how sinful the Earth became and God said really you're going to try to cheat this okay 120 now and you see a steady drop from Noah's time 950 um Shem 600 all the way down to Moses who's 120 and since Moses nobody lives 120 as far as we know except for jeho the priest um lived 130 our sponsors private family banking Partners is on a mission to help Christians live out the Dominion mandate by making a stealth likee move away from the mainstream Banks and into their own privatized banking system this Innovative system is designed to guarantee uninterrupted compound interest and taxfree growth without exposure to typical stock market risk to join this growing community that is already Building Wealth onto future generations and converting postmill talk into post post Mill action contact private family banking partner Chuck deante at his email Chuck private family banking.com that's Chuck private family banking.com set up an appointment and receive a free copy of Chuck's new book protect your money now how to build multi-generational wealth outside of Wall Street and avoid the coming banking meltdown go to the links in the show notes below are you looking for a 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the interpretation that that when that was said it was approximately 120 years so not just each individual man is not going to live 900 years anymore but eventually we're going to work down to where the lifespan of a man each individual person is around 100 or less years but instead no Mankind in general you've got 120 years the clock is ticking until I flood the world uh so like kind of like God like speaking about the Nephilim um that like my spirit will not abide in Man Forever these terrible things are taking place and so um I'm I'm going to wipe out um all of these men um and and I'm going to do it in approximately 120 years when Noah finishes the ark project I'm I'm sure you've heard that view what are your thoughts on that yeah yeah and that that's a a a well-known view there are a lot of people who hold that um I I don't it's hard to demonstrate that from the text that that's really what's in view uh I think it's plausible it's certainly not um it's not I don't think it's ruled out just by reading that verse certainly God could have made that pronouncement 120 years prior to the flood um but it never tells us who he spoke those words to so we don't know that it was spoken to any man could have been inter trinitarian dialogue or we were talking before the show maybe something within this Divine Council um you know the Heavenly throne room if you will um and he's just saying man's become so wicked I'm going to cut their days short they're not living this long anymore um I guess you could hold out the possibility that it's both he happened to do that 120 years before the flood and it also refers to the lifespan being reduced um but um I I don't think Noah was building the ark for 120 years because in Genesis 6 um beginning around 18 uh I think it is at Verse 18 maybe 19 where God tells Noah and he's telling him to build the ark he he says I'm going to make my Covenant with you your wife your sons and your sons wives with you so it sounds like the boys were already grown up and married when God said we'll start building the ark um so I think I don't think that he starts building the ark at that point but well that my thought is that uh that that the the statement was made at 120 year mark and then Noah is commissioned with his grown sons to begin building you know young Sons but but adults to begin building the ark you know maybe 20 30 years later and the arc is this 90 hundred year project but but it was spoken 20 30 years so anyways that possibility but back to your point I because I like this because you're in your book you're very technical I mean that's the beauty of it is there's a lot of stuff that you can you know you can check out you can listen to this podcast you can watch this video you know and and I like I like this stuff I'm a sucker for it but and it's like it's Fantastical it's awesome um but a lot of it's fiction and what you do is is really I mean you stick to the script namely the script sh but that said if I can get you from time to time to speculate I probably will because I'm a sucker for it so back to real quick your speculation about that maybe you're basically what you're saying is that maybe these women their incentive that it was a willing marriage with these fallen angels and their incentive was that they they knew um that death was was in their future and thinking is is there a way that we can somehow get man to live forever like almost like us like trying to transhumanism or like uploading conscience to the cloud or or cloning or so is it something like that yeah I think so I mean not the same right not the same angle but just the whole idea I mean I like to talk about it this way the the the thing Humanity has desired more than anything else throughout history our greatest desire is to cheat death to live forever you know we people have tried and tried and tried and then they can't do it um because God's told us they're not going well we are going to live forever we know that but not the way they're thinking and what's really interesting is the our greatest need is that we need forgiveness from our holy Creator because we've rebelled against him and we we deserve his judgment his wrath so our greatest desire live forever our greatest need forgiveness what do you get in the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus you get both you get our greatest need and our greatest desire and it's God knew knew all about us isn't it um so yeah I think that's I again speculating I think that was probably the thought process of some of the women maybe it was more of just a wow there's Thor say actually Thor I'm just saying think the movies you know Chris a good-looking it's not a he's not he can look like a demon right right a Thor um but not a Marvel version he's not a li right he's he's like he looks masculine and he actually has masculine views yeah and there's a well even um what's the other G Guardians of the Galaxy have Peter Quill who's a you know Star-Lord he's a he's a son of a god according to this yeah yeah yeah you're right you're right um or from flip it around um if you remember the movie be dazzled with Elizabeth Hurley playing the role of the devil you know tempting Brendan F Fraser's character well yeah of course if that's going to happen appear as beautiful very attractive beautiful yeah yeah so uh that if so right away people are kind of grossed out by the Fallen Angel of you but they're not thinking about it properly and I know some people probably are watching thinking wait Jesus said they can't do this or what about let's address trust me I I've heard that before a lot of times you know I've written a book that's almost 500 pages and people will come up to me and say yeah but Jesus said they can't like like you've never seen that verse in the Bible oh my goodness 500 pages down the drain I never knew that exact let's address that yeah so I've got five chapters worth of objections in this book to the Fallen Angel View because I including some that most people have never even heard of because I've I've over you know 10 years or so of research and studying on it I've heard a lot of them and I I try to include everything that I could um so did Jesus say that Fallen Angels can't do that well in Matthew 2230 that's where they always go you have that passage where um the Sadducees come before Jesus and they say hey there was this woman who married this guy and he dies she marries the you know her his brother marries her then he dies and you know so on and who is she gonna be married to in you know in the afterlife of course s Sadducees didn't believe in that anyways they're just trying to trap Jesus and saying how ridiculous is and um so he says you Heir because you don't know the scripture of the power of God and then um he says that the um for in the the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angel of God in heaven and so people look at that passage and they say see the angels Don't marry or Angels can't marry is what they say and it's like no that's not what it says Jesus says the angels of God in heaven do not marry the Holy Angels Don't marry that's all it says they he never says the ones who left their proper Abode like Jude 6 talks about the ones who left heaven and are in Rebellion he never says what they can or can't do he just says what the on that the ones in heaven don't do that right so right yep that no that's that's great yeah I feel like it's almost antil climatic because it's um it's a huge objection and then you answer that objection you're like I was waiting for the Zinger but the answer is short because it's it's so such an easy objection to answer at the end of the day it's like yeah so Angels don't do that in heaven uh but rebellious angels that hate God and are not in heaven Jesus doesn't say anything about them it's not not that complicated right and what's even um what's really interesting in Luke's version of that passage Jesus says for in the resurrection they neither marri nor are given a marriage but are um are what do he say that are equal to the angels and are sons of God so in a sense it's almost like you're given a little nod to the Fallen Angel View that yeah they're sons of God um now I'm not I want to use that argument by itself and say see my views right that but it is perfectly consistent and it's interesting that he uses wording that we when we're equal to the angels then we're sons of God no so's not he's not saying we be yeah he's not saying we become Angels just so right yeah yeah yeah but yeah anybody understand that right no it's it's similar to where you know like U you know the son of man like you made him a little lower than the angels for now you know like um but saying that there's going to be you know there's there's this exaltation there's a glorification um in in our in our future for those who trust in Christ okay so that yeah that's really helpful um understanding okay so angels as far as we know there's nothing biblically that would um that would eradicate the possibility of Fallen Angels who have left their Heavenly Abode actually uh taking wives human wives and being able to procreate with them um we'll get into this a little bit uh in in a future episode but I am just a little bit curious um you kind of talked about it but is it is it mult multiple incursions in terms of the Nephilim being there after the flood how how does how does that work exactly we you don't believe I see some guys say like well the Nephilim they built rafts you know or they went under the gra and I'm just like and for me the reason why I don't like that and I'm all down for a good story um but not a good story at the expense of of God's word but the reason I don't like that is it subjects God to to failure it's like like I mean if you're going to flood the the world you know if you're going to go to you know I mean that's a big deal to flood the world that you love God go God loves the world it's it this is good um I feel like from what I can tell from the Bible about the character of God if he's going to flood the whole earth for a particular purpose he's not going to miss you know what I mean right yeah well Peter tells us only eight people survived through which eight souls are eight eight souls are spared in in the ark um everybody else perishes that world perished and the Nephilim are identified in Genesis 64 as Mighty Men of old men of re now they're they're human um even though I believe that they are you know their fathers were Angelic beings they're still they're still human um the The Offspring are the Nephilim are um so I don't think they're surviving the flood at all now this is a I think this is a problem for the sethite view a big problem for it I think it's a big problem for the uh royalty view how do you get the Nephilim on the Earth again after the flood because they're clearly there numbers 13:33 tells us that the the Nephilim were in the land now some people will look at that and say well that's just the spies they're lying about it actually the narrator tells us Moses tells us about 10 verses earlier he names three of them that they were in heon that um he talks about the anakim being there and the anakim are of the Nephilim so you have aiman shishi and talmi the three that are named um so Moses the narrator tells us that they're there the spies weren't lying about the Nephilim being in the land they were using that fact to try to scare the spot the rest of the people to not go in and there there's a lot more to that passage that I think we'll talk about in another um episode I got a whole chapter a bad a bad report does not necessarily mean a lying report it means a um distrustful in God and his promises report like a a negative just like you go to the doctor and you can get a negative report U but that doesn't mean he's lying he could say I'm sorry to tell you this but you have terminal cancer and it's like I heard something similar 17 years ago you have leukemia yeah well there you go that was a bad report but it was true right and I'm GL what he told me amen um okay well that's yeah that's great and we'll get into it uh so the goal is for if ever any listener who made it to the end of the episode the goal is that we're going to do four parts and um basically you know some some of the notes I I looked at your table of contents and trying to map it out we've talked a little bit in preparation but um if we can we want to try to talk a little bit more about the Nephilim returning and and if there's multiple incursions and and how does this happen and um and what about you know it seems like the f Angels were locked in Gloomy dungeons so how did they get out or were some locked in Gloomy Dungeons and then another batch fell so talking about how were the Nephilim on the Earth again so that'll be our goal I think with episode two and then maybe we'll get into episode two but we want to do at least in two or episode three a full episode on just the Giants um you know just talking about the anakim the the um the rfim you know different different uh classifications or tribes of Giants and different time periods I I would love to just pick your brain with you know okay so the days of Noah but then you know Moses and Joshua and and David and Goliath and and so talking about those kinds of things and then if we can we'll try to do a fourth episode that's a catchall and so um so tune in uh if you haven't subscribed to our Channel hit the Subscribe button hit the Bell you'll be notified uh whenever we come out with more content the the catchall episode we're going to talk about evil spirits assaulting women does that still happen today uh were these Spirits um imprisoned when were were they imprisoned are all of them imprisoned um were there female Giants is a question that you address in your appendix and so uh those are the things that we'll try to hit in the fourth episode but I I think it's going to be great any final word uh Tim that you want to leave the listeners with on on this topic of just who are the Nephilim yeah the the one thing I guess I would stress about the book is I mentioned earlier so many of the Articles and and now especially on YouTube so many of the videos get into this speculative highly speculative and fantastic things and Link it with all sorts of end time scenarios that was not the goal in this book at all that is let's have a very sober serious bible study on this topic and explore every single angle that you can you can think of and uh so that that was what I attempted to do and uh I believe I believe I accomplished that I'm sure there's things that could be stated better or maybe there's things that uh need to be expanded at some point but um yeah you asked real quickly about was there another incursion and we hinted at it a little bit but um yeah when that word that says whenever the the the Nephilim were on the earth in those days and also afterward whenever the sons of God did this that that's the clue um and so yeah I believe there was another one and I think leave that as a um teaser for the next one y no and and that's why I got you on the show because this is this is not a pamphlet this is a gargantuan you know book and uh and the reason why I'm reading it um and the reason why I wanted to get you on the show is because I I wanted to um everything you just said you you said you know I wanted to give a serious biblical treatment to this topic and then you said you also said you know some people you know are speculative and they get you know get into various scenarios in the end times and uh Tim I'm one of those people I will do that I think it's fun to do that but but I wanted to have you on here because I I I don't want to just do a video where I say well this is my view of the end times and this is how I think you know things you know all things Nephilim you know work into the equation those are fun things I try to give caveats whenever I address it and say okay this is speculation this is my thought you know this is what the Bible for sure says this is my thought but I I'm excited about doing a four-part series with you because this is not going to be your typical YouTube you know the thing if you look at something that has 1.7 million views on YouTube about the Nephilim it may not be super accurate but this I'm hoping will be one of the most accurate sources that people can use uh and and refer back to you know several times because some people will read the 500 page book and some some people in our culture today won't and but they'll hop on YouTube and they'll be able to see your book in interview form and and I hope it'll be a blessing to a lot of people to get really highly uh accurate information yeah well thank you for that and I when I say speculative I I'm okay with speculating too I I have a whole chapter called giant speculations that actually has to do with the spies and the and the Giants which I think we'll talk about in the later episode it's it's a really fun chapter to think about how other places where we might read about something very similar or actually about that what happened as a result of that um I think that's that's interesting I have a chapter toward the end I think it's the last chapter before the appendices talking about arguments that we shouldn't use and I'm not necessarily opposed to all the things in that chapter but you know so so many times when people are talking about this issue it's it's all about well we found these giant skeletons in the US but the smithonian came and took them and it's like okay well even even if that were true and I'm not I'm not taking a stand one way or the other who cares in terms of what does the Bible say it's got to be in the text yeah exactly U and so there's there's other things out there or that the Nephilim have to be back to fight against Jesus when he returns like what what or or the whole idea of the Fallen Angel View comes from The Book of Enoch and well I don't think I mentioned the Book of Enoch till like chapter 10 when and it's just in the mix of a whole bunch of other Jewish writings from the in testamental Period that held this view so no it's not based on that that book um so just yeah that's there are a whole bunch of those types of things that I want to uh dispel or at least avoid and say look you can have a serious study on this topic that that deals um that deals carefully with the text hopefully Faithfully with the text and um and then but is still Fantastical and I think that's the beauty is it like what I want Christians to see is you don't have to make stuff up out of thin air uh thin air um that that we are designed we are a people that um there's something in us especially as men where we kind of want dragons to be real um just because we we've got a sneaking suspicion that we were made to slay them we we kind of want to know that Giants really were real that God placed us in a world where there's real good and there's real evil and uh and there's real Powers at work and that we're caught up in this incredible Cosmic battle for the glory of God for king and country and you know the knights and Shining Armor and like boys grow up wanting those things to be real and and so I think it's important first and foremost what what is true what does the Bible say but um the reason why we're doing this is to say um no like we we live in a magical world um there are in incredible things um and and I think materialism you know it's it's um it's not that we're disenchanted um I've heard some people Joe Ry says this it's not that we're disenchanted uh since the enlightenment um but this is actually the enchantment it's a dark enchantment um it's a dark enchantment that Darwin and and materialism has just doled our sense of wonder and I want Christians to see that you can have wonder and uh you can have Wonder Faithfully without being ridiculous you don't have to be ridiculous um to to think about dragons and Giants so amen amen all right well thanks so much for coming on the show and I look forward to episode two all right I do too thanks for having me join Douglas Wilson Dr Joseph boot Brian s Eric con and myself on March 1st 2nd and 3rd for our 2024 conference it's called blueprints for chrisom 2.0 go and visit WR respon conference.com to register today we hope to see you at the conference in [Music] March

Channel: Right Response Ministries

Views: 61,597

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Id: -XNbJeygOho

Length: 58min 55sec (3535 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 26 2023