One of the Fiercest Arguments the Den Has Ever Seen | Dragons’ Den

the dragons are always looking for great money-making inventions but will they think 21 year old roger hines business idea is worth an investment of 85 000 pounds [Music] [Music] hello i'm roger hind i'm here today with my product rotomate i'm looking for 85 000 pounds for 15 sure in a business i think you'd agree an umbrella with no covering is absolutely useless yet for decades rotary clothes errors stunning gardens unquestioned just one of four uk closed aero manufacturers is currently selling over 400 000 units per year with millions of people every year leaving their washing to the mercy of the british weather which is where my product comes in rotamate it is a purpose-built designed rotary clothes error which embodies a protective cover three panels are attached to the tips of the arms at the center each has a velcro fastening and a concealed weight forming a taut funnel lining that diverts rain away from the line and to the center i have won repeat orders from the uk's leading independent diy store and from its main regional rival and this week i've finalized an agreement with a wholesaler that furthers that retailing capability from regional to national i'm not the stage where my business is poised to reap huge rewards from a strong onward push thank you i will now try to answer your questions roger hines confidence in his rotamate shines through his pitch for 85 000 pounds of investment for a 15 percent stake in his business but theo pathetis is curious about the appeal of the laundry sector to such a young entrepreneur how did you get involved in this um how did i come up with this idea you're 21 how much washing do you do i'm fortunate you know my mum normally does the washing for me um but to get to the point how did i come up with the idea mum had put the washing out and she'd gone to work and i was 17 and she said just do me a favor if it rains bring it in and i didn't bring the washing in and you can tell the inevitable happened the washing got soaked it was at that point i thought there's a problem there and i thought there has to be a solution it's not for my own sake so i don't get told off again for the sake of everybody else out there that's why i came up with the idea right and then you just decided to design it well patented i decided to employ a patient attorney and that patent attorney has with me applied for a european patent which he insists that it's imminent this year right and tell me about the orders that you had from a large diy okay have you got a further order from them i do i have a purchase order with me which can be provided to yourselves for a thousand units roger's giving an impressive account of his product development duncan bannertine wants to pick up on where he's got to in actual sales so how many have you sold today i have sold 550 units okay and what price are you selling about the whole sale price from me to a wholesaler is 11 pounds uh however they've been selling on the internet as well at 24.95 the cost per unit is seven pounds rogers margins seem healthy enough but deborah meaden wants to know does the business have the potential to deliver profits for an investor [Music] can you tell me what your business plan says in terms of financial numbers what are you expecting over the next this year next year year after okay for this year i'm expecting to hit 8 000 sales so you're going to make about 32 000 pound profit that's correct okay for the following year 2008 i anticipate 50 000 unit sales for the year after i predict a rise to 250 000 units basically the wholesaler i've currently recently finalized the agreement with i know for a fact sell 26 000 units a year this wholesaler is one of six i intend to speak to the other wholesalers and make more deals to see national distribution outlined ambitious growth plans for the rotomate richard farley is intrigued can i just have a quick look at it of course so the water doesn't come through here this this place is through here no it doesn't and if it's windy and wet at the same time does the water come through windy and wet at the same time no it doesn't and are you paying yourself a salary out of the business currently now i've tried to incur as little cost as possible does the business have a lot of debt it doesn't know let me just give you something to think about i'd be you know obviously a few more questions to ask but uh at this point i'll be off i'd be tempted to offer you um sort of half the money for about you know the percentage you're talking about so 15 something like that so just to let the others know that's what i'm thinking richard farley has surprised his rival dragons with a slightly vague and very early offer but it's only for half of the money roger needs can he persuade one of the four remaining dragons to make up the rest i'm not as excited as some of the other dragons particularly richard um as you mentioned there's about 400 000 clotheslines in the uk sold each year that's from one of the four uk manufacturers what's their percentage market share 90 percent no it would be uh it'd be a quarter um because if one sells nearly 400 000 a year then for business for them to stay in business the others they must have to compete fiercely they must be selling a significant amount as in hundreds of years that's where there's a certain flaw they don't make an assumption that if one per manufacturer is selling four hundred thousand it's very unusual to find that four of the main manufacturers will be buying at market share at 25 each i don't think the sales will get anything like the volume that you think so i'm out it's an abrupt setback for roger his lack of marketing now has driven peter jones away from a deal deborah meaden is a marketing expert has roger alienated her as well i'm slightly disappointed that you don't understand the size of the market the credibility of your projections is as far as i'm concerned shot but i'm actually going to make you an offer because i like the product but i want 20 because i think a lot of work needs to be done on to get this out there so i would match deborah's offer there hey i think we've got two other dragons still just let's just get what's the offer that's on the table i thought you got two you were at 15 she's at 20. i said around 15 around why don't you relax for a second all right okay let's just talk to so you would have a matching pair right obviously the other dragons are not out so you want to speak to them but richard has just taken another five percent off it'd have to be there have to be some talk about um about you know your salary and all that sort of stuff but that's that's the offer that's on the table from the two of us roger has now been offered the full 85 000 pounds but peter jones and richard farley have clashed over richard matching deborah meaden's equity demand theopa fetus and duncan vanitine are still in will either of them rival the 40 being asked for i think that the offer is made to you by deborah and richard is a very very good offer i wouldn't offer that amount so i'm not going to make you an offer so i'm out i don't believe it's an investable opportunity for me because the product hasn't got the market that i think you envisage so i'm not going to make you an offer so you have got those two offers but i think you need to really reconsider and re-evaluate your position so what theo's saying is alpha is a lousy one but he's not going to make a better one the dragons are furious with each other but in the midst of it all roger has a crucial decision to make okay well to those that are out thank you as regards the offer that stands for the capital injected and the advice and the assistance that can be provided by roger roger just before you do this and i'm sorry to cut in because i want you to actually start questioning the deal that's been put in front of you you were offered at the first deal by somebody half the money for 15 somebody came in at 20 percent and now the whole deal is now at 40. i think there's something wrong one last thing i think something wrong with peter's hearing i said i'd like to hear more conversation and i said around about your level so for me 20 15 there's nothing disingenuous about it it's just that's probably i mean in some ways it's duncan said 130 000 pounds for your business is probably generous you know for me i i'm back this is cringy for me i'm backing i'm backing you because i've seen what you've done between in the last four years you're not well listen you can listen to these cards they can make him an offer make an offer if our offer is disingenuous right why don't you let me guys speak instead of because you're speaking make an offer peter go and come back in and make an offer roger would you like to give the two people feedback it's one of the fiercest arguments between the dragons the den has ever seen a bitter schism has opened up with peter jones advising roger not to give away as much as 40 for the 85 000 pounds where i'm up to my thoughts is um because as i say it's my first project i want to see it through i want to make it work i know i need assistance in certain areas and i do believe that both richard and deborah can can offer with this so i'd like to accept the offer terrific well done good decision roger after an incredibly tumultuous session roger is leaving with his investment but in the den the disagreements continue [Music] 40 is outrageous well he's got it's got profit 21 if it was a more experienced it would negotiate it down well he wouldn't have got it from me he wouldn't have moved down you should have given more better offer [Laughter] i hope it works for him [Music] roger quite a marathon are you pleased with the offer you've got yes i am not only the cash but certainly the advice is uh very useful was there any point at which you would have turned that offer down while all the bickering was going on why don't you let me guys speak instead of rapping because you're speaking there actually was and it was something i was unsure about until i said i've come to a decision it was very difficult very difficult very very well done thank you very much you

Channel: Dragons' Den

Views: 1,168,766

Keywords: dragons den, dragons den uk, evan davis, deborah meaden, peter jones, touker suleyman, tej lalvani, business pitching, entrepreneur, game show, shark tank, dragons, den, best, bits, new, worst, pitches, funniest, moments, most, shocking, ideas, products, businesses, dragons den funny, dragons den 2020, dragons den season 18, dragons den best pitch, peter jones dragons den, richard farleigh, peter jones defends 21 year old, clothes line dragons den

Id: vjB9ZC-SZxI

Length: 13min 3sec (783 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 16 2021