5 of the Most Unprepared Pitches We've Seen in the Den | Dragons’ Den

welcome back tonight we reopen the doors to the den where our hopeful entrepreneurs all fueled with business ambition and driven by a need for cash are poised to descend the stairs and pitch to our five multi-millionaire investors economic times may be tough but all i can say is that through bust and boom the dragons have had one consistent aim to put their own money into the next big thing our first entrepreneur is mother of three b london who has a tiny tiny slice of the huge beauty market in the uk and she wants the dragon's help to make that slice a little larger do i start talking a good idea sorry um um yes my name's bee and i'm looking for 85 000 pounds for 10 percent of my company we've got style in store what we do is hair extensions so we're going we're going to do a bit of a demo now so you can have a look at what we do right what we have in store are hair extension bars so clients have a similar process to this these two guys are going to do what we do normally in store and i'm going to talk to you about the company that's okay we've got style first established in 2008. um i don't know if you've watched the show the apprentice i saw a bit of that and i saw that they went into shopping centers and trial marketed their products so i thought it would be a good idea to do that and it took off very well we now have three bars and i'm hoping to open two more bars and i would like your investment in helping me do this if you have any questions please ask now thank you a somewhat disorderly pitch from b london from north london she needs 85 000 pounds to roll out her in-store hair styling concept and she's putting up a 10 stake in return hilary duvet is first to interrogate the enthusiastic entrepreneur b is there anybody else doing this because i've seen them where they actually glue them in yeah that's what we that's where i saw the gap in the market because generally people were gluing them in and it was taking five to six hours to have your hair extensions done with the method that we use we do a full heading within an hour you know what we do is we cut it in we style it in and then they can put like you know my ones are in you can pull them tug them there's you've got them in there yeah yeah i've got them in because you've got the plait and the threading it all gives you a bit of oomph and where do you plan on going with the business hair extensions were almost like for the rich and the famous and the vision i had was let's bring it into the department stores but also you know maybe places like new look topshop you know we can use like three different colors if you want it darker like people with blonde hair they'll say oh i want to go a bit warmer underneath i don't want to be so blonde obviously i have sorry b you've just painted a beautiful picture but let's concentrate on the business a little bit so which one's been opened the longest um my original one that i opened um which is in blue water shopping center tell me what the turnover was in the last year the turnover on that was 365 000 with the 55 000 profit and what were the other ones you've opened what they're making and then i went on to open house of fraser in lakeside and that one took 123 000 with uh 26 000 profit and my my one that i've opened most recently in trafford center selfridges it took 240 000 in 10 months by revealing ambitious plans and a flourishing revenue stream b looks to have quickly relaxed into den questioning peter jones is keen to drill down further into the numbers b yes manchester turned over 240 000. in 10 months 10 months what was the profit for there oh i don't know offhand because the profit we're sl i don't know what the profit is okay so so between all three of them you're turning over about three quarters of a million pounds yes and you could be making close on a hundred thousand pounds profit yeah can i just take you through so i get a proper breakdown of each area so what's your staff costs at lakeside staff costs at lakeside i don't know that offhand okay you make what kind of margin gross the margin growth is i think about 75 b are you guessing if i want extensions how much would it cost me 240 pounds how much would the raw material cost about 100 pounds so if you buy your hair for 100 pounds and you double it what figured you get 200 good okay on top of that 200 you've got to add vat what does it come to 240 which is what you sell for yes right what percentage is 100 of 200 50 excellent now that's your margin but we don't like i buy the hair 400 but we don't do one head we'll do two heads out of it as well so ah hence why she gets to 75 no that's that's nonsense so it's 50 pounds 75 it's 50 pounds peter i can only go by what she says i'm not going to pretend i know her business when i don't know her business but she's already said that she said she didn't she did she said 75 percent was her gross margin 75 of the numbers you're talking about is 50 quid costs peter she said the head of hair cost 100 pounds yes that's all i want to know i don't want to know percentages i don't know real pound shillings says before that can you set me up can you settle down this is a bit bean [Music] a contrite looking bee can only watch as the lack of clarity in her numbers causes tempers to flare amongst the dragons will she now find solace from an unlikely corner of the den b let's just forget my numbers for a second okay tell me about you um i built myself up from the ground take a deep breath yeah take your time um i basically started off um on a market store and i found whatever i sold sold quite well so um you know i use my personality to sell the products um and then i then um i went to a busy area where there was lots of ladies shopping um and it took me seven months before i had a shop and that's when i came up with the idea of doing hairdressing um and i've i really um want people to see my vision and um i've worked very very hard for what i have and i don't want to um ruin my chances a heartfelt exchange bee is unable to reign in her emotions but her entrepreneurial spirit is clear is that enough for deborah meaden to give her a second chance so you've got something and you're passionate about it your numbers are all over the place but you know sometimes people can just instinctively make money the trouble is turnover is a good start but it doesn't mean anything until it drops through to profit yes so what's your balance sheet balance sheet what do you mean by the balance sheet you don't know what the balance i have seen the balance sheets do you know how much stock is going into each store no i just basically do you know how much wages is going into each door no no i don't to be honest be yes sorry you're not managing the business are you okay i've made my mind up you have started something and you feel like you accidentally made some money out of it and therefore you worry me that you could accidentally lose an awful lot of money yeah i understand where you're coming from but i was just trying to make it coming from anywhere i'm out [Music] a first blow for the young entrepreneur as an exasperated debra meden walks away from the deal will theo perfetus be more forgiving b there's no question in my mind you're driven you're passionate you want to get somewhere but there's a butt today you were winging it purely winging it true yes i agree yeah that's never a good tactic in the den i'm out the problem is being that if you don't know the individual wages and costs of each of your outlets you won't know if they're all making a profit you need to start understanding the individual outlets before you open anymore i think a lot of work to do and understanding that i'm out b fails to convince two more dragons and her investment dreams are fading fast and now peter jones looks to have made up his mind too [Music] you've done incredibly well i think you have built a very successful business but i think you've entered a marketplace that is easily replicated so i'm not going to invest in you today for that reason b so i'm out i think your numbers are all over the place i think you're commercially unaware um [Music] i can forgive you i think you've done remarkably well i'm going to make you an offer i'll offer you the full 85 but not for 10. it's not worth my while i would like 40 percent i'm a bit terrified of the 40 because that's a huge percentage would you consider going down to 30 no because you need so much time what about when i if i've been sort of together we'll build a very successful company not necessarily in the same model it's in now but a business model to go forward with okay i accept your offer [Applause] bee's done it amongst the confusion and emotion of her pitch hillary duvet recognized her potential however her support comes at a high price now mankind has been cutting wood for thousands of years we've got advanced tools like saws to help us do it so you might think no one could come up with a new way of making the task easier well think again cumbrian based duo richard bones and steve tonkin believe they've done exactly that [Music] hey hello dragons i'm richard bourness i'm the inventor and shareholder of the truncated multi-cut saw horse we've come here to ask for 125 000 pounds for 30 of our company hello dragons my name is steve tonkin i'm project manager here at truncata and i'd like to introduce you to our sawhorse the truncated sawhorse is a revolutionary new chainsaw sawhorse that makes the process of cutting logs easier faster and much much safer our sawhorse is a unique source it's the only sawhorse where you multiple cut logs the logs are held by the cup system and you simply stack from the cups or in fact even better tip the cup system into a container to create your log pile and we're here today to hope that with your investment and help we can take our brand and our invention from cumbria to the uk and to the rest of europe i have some ear defenders for you now to put on while richard gives a demonstration of the device [Music] a somewhat nervous pitch from richard bones and steve tonkin from cumbria they're looking for investment for their souped up version of a sawhorse a device used to secure wood while it's being cut before the questioning can commence it's time to see the product in action [Music] two blocks one barrel full of logs 30 seconds hi i'm deborah um so what are people currently using to chop logs all saw horses on the market at the moment drop the logs onto the ground which creates trip acids more importantly most people are cutting one and two pieces of wood at a time this you can fill that and you are multiple cutting so you are getting at least a hundred to two hundred percent increase in productivity bold claims from the entrepreneurs but can they back them up under questioning from peter jones how many people could go out in their back garden cut down some trees put them onto the truncator then cut their logs then take them back into their house what's the reality of that is that one in 50 000 one in a million um at least one well i would've thought there'd be a lot more than that one in what well what's that what i'm saying because the market is so big we can't actually ascertain where it is i don't think the market is big i would accept your view but you're completely wrong but that doesn't help i'll accept that it's a thing that isn't within your gambit therefore you haven't got the knowledge to actually ascertain no no but you've supposed to got the knowledge and you've come in here with a with a table that i could get from anywhere with a truncator just put on the front as a brand and you're then telling me that i'm wrong well give me some facts we're looking for sales of 1 300 of these units in the first year and that should produce 65 000 gross profit gross profit we're then going to uh 3500 that goes to the 130. what's what what's your net profit going to be in those two years would you remember sorry the figures are going to have our heads um how can we put this this is quite good well um would you say would you say richard i've this is quite good is that your humour it is actually because we're making a complete mess of the figures by arguing back and getting the numbers wrong richard has ruffled the feathers of the dragons is easing the den's uncomfortable atmosphere on kelly hopkins agenda [Music] can i just say that you know everyone that comes in here with an invention i take my hat off to you i love the way it chops up the logs neatly but in terms of a business it's a flawed business plan you're talking about all the people that go and buy a chainsaw it's not going to be people that are chopping down logs for a business you go to petrol stations all these hardware stores where they're all bagged up i think that you're thinking that all of those thousands of people that are buying the chainsaws i've got a business most people that i know that live in the country actually enjoy cutting down the logs it's like a pastime but i don't think you're going to sell enough okay it's floating right when i say i'm quite impressed with the pluck of you all telling somebody who does cut logs big time and has done for 50 odd year richard richard so so you're saying that you're unimpressed by bears because we don't cut logs so we don't know we're talking about when it comes to cutting logs yes right well what i'm saying is this i'm unimpressed with you telling us how to run a profitable successful business i'm up challenging the dragons appears a kamikaze tactic as duncan bannertine walks away from the deal piers linney is keen to steer the pitch back to business and the all-important issue of sales i don't think anybody here thinks that there isn't a market for this there is clearly um the question is how big is that market and that's where the i'd be surprised you weren't selling one million pounds of that product within three years but you sit here and you chuck out words like you know that i would be surprised if we don't sell a million of these and honestly you you are surprised at me well i'm really surprised at you not coming up with actual fact i reckon we'll sell three to four thousand then tell me you're gonna sell three to four thousand we will sell far more than three to four thousand this startup company up to now has consisted of me for two years and steven for roughly 60 days how is that helping me make a decision on whether or not i invest in you because myself i've sold 9000 pounds of that product to hill farmers and the hardest market you could ever believe to people that have never bought a sawhorse won't buy anything and i've sold it to the hardest richard you're missing the point this is all fantastic every entrepreneur that comes in here has a story behind them every entrepreneur sitting here in front of you has worked their socks off to get where they are today that doesn't give me the reason to invest i think you'd be impossible to work with you always have to look at the person at the end of the day and think how would we work together and we wouldn't we would kill each other so i'm out richard's defensiveness of his product is proving disastrous as an irritated deborah meaden bows out and it looks like kelly hoppen has also made up her mind you've kind of walked in here unenergetic unexcited about a product that you know i actually like although it's so out of my sphere of what i do for a living but i can see that it's it's a good product but your attitude is so unengaging so you know obviously you know what i'm going to say i'm afraid i'm out that's fine thank you steve richard it was rubbish just the whole not the product i like the product i don't get it i don't live in the country like some of the other dragons if i got a chance throughout my garden somebody'll probably call the police but the biggest issue i think is is yourself i can't imagine working with you and trying to have a straight conversation with you because i think i think you think you know better and perhaps you do when it comes to logging but it's not just about logging this it's about building a business isn't it so i might thank you thank you [Music] four dragons are out will peter jones be an unlikely savior to what's proving to be a chainsaw massacre in the den you really should have got onto your numbers you really should have asked yourselves the questions that you believe would be asked one day's worth of work before you came in here and you would have been able to answer some pretty easy questions appalling pitch and that's the reason why i'm not investing i'm out thank you it takes a brave person to argue with these dragons and in the end it didn't pay off for richard and steve they may have fought valiantly to defend their product but it only resulted in expulsion from the den they leave with nothing else hey that was rough for me it was a morning and a half that was yeah [Music] that is a great demonstration of how to not get an investment once they were getting really aggressive wouldn't accept what i said uh i was just wanting to get out of there because i would not do business with the three older dragons in any shape or form just i'd help him out in a life and death situation but i wouldn't put a slate on their roof for a tenner what's yet my name's david brown uh i'm here to ask for seventy thousand pounds uh investment uh for my brand and business idea graffiti artist so i know it's a little bit weird but if you wouldn't mind closing your eyes and watch that money as well yeah i'd stash it mate two minutes yeah you ready there you go mate so what this is is my product sticker mops so it's a piece of graffiti art which has been generated from a computer some of the investment that i'm asking for is towards an app and a um computer program so that you could put your name or your kid's name or your kids can put their name into a program and then they can manipulate it and color it however they want and then they can order it and get it printed out and what it is like it's using my alphabets at the moment but what i hope to do is maybe use um alphabets and artwork from other graffiti artists who haven't been as lucky as me have another chance to you know be able to sell it to the masses hopefully that's the feel-good factor about graffiti arts as well so it's my idea of giving something back so hopefully you can help that happen by giving me some money cheers thank you [Music] a charismatic pitch from the birmingham-based entrepreneur david's looking for a 70 000 pound investment for his online design at home graffiti art business but despite his charm he's missed something out um you asked for 70 000 for what was the percentage you um to get it back over the three years with 20 um you know like um i can't remember what the word he's markup or whatever um i mean i think it's a great idea i mean wallpaper is a huge industry today and i have wallpaper it's risen over the last 15 years uncontrollably but the idea of graffiti i just don't for me i don't know how marketable it is well the sort of target i think for this is like from about seven up until about 13 or 14. kids seen their bedrooms you know like oh i want a spider-man room won a hulk bedroom one a hello kitty bedroom or something now there's a chance that they could have a graffiti yard i totally get it and i've actually employed graffiti artists to do graffiti in kids bedrooms i mean i know that kids love it 70 grand and we can do it man i'm telling you there may be untapped demand for graffiti wallpaper but piers linney's unconvinced this entrepreneur can scale up his skills to the mass market david to me what you put on the wall there is still quite artistic you've done this you can see your creative juices flowing there but to replicate that to an app as you know is very difficult so if i was to try to create something with my daughter's wall what would it look like and i'm pretty sure it wouldn't look anything like that no it's probably like my daughter did it yeah i see your point definitely i mean look um it's not as hard as you think i mean you'd be surprised at how people if you sit down and do especially on a tablet that you can sit down and take your time and mess about with it so there's no one that you're in designing no one employed no one involved in it themselves yep that's really what you're trying to do exactly what i'm after you david's style might be unorthodox but so far his idea is standing up to scrutiny but duncan bannettine still wants to know how urban art can be turned into pound shillings and pens once i've designed it say something that size yeah what does it cost me yeah uh 99 pound just for something that size so this is a lot money 70 000 how do you intend to pay that back or give the investor a return uh yet by selling loads of these and uh doing the the brand as well i mean because most sort of figures that i've got um are quite modest as well whether you know i don't know muddy's dish anyway um but like um they're not tell what the numbers are and i'll tell you if the mod is uh um yeah i mean gross profit first year i mean it makes a loss of 10 grand in the first year but in the second one you're looking at gross profit about two three seven and then look with that uh what do you mean two three seven so are you [Laughter] 237 000 yeah in the second year from thousand pounds that's turnovers turnover i think yeah so the minus ten was that turnover of profit no no no the turnover gross profit was about seventy one thousand and then a minus one okay so in the first year 71k and you lose 10 000. and the second year your turnover is 237 000 pounds yep how much do you make uh 37. 37 000. yeah and in the third year uh about 395. turnover do you want to just come over here with your arm show duncan what you've got 219 000 so so you can increase your turnover on the third year by a hundred thousand increase your profit by 180 or 190 000 yeah because it's not just the sticking up something doing uh i'm good i think i think what i need to do is give you a job as my finance director [Laughter] david yep do you know who i am yep peter someone that's good i got you written down hold on i've got you written that yeah peter jones yeah how are you mate i'm very good david thank you just get into the detail you said earlier that what's really important to you is about giving back what do you think's really important to me getting back so if i gave you 70 000 pounds yep if your most fundamental thing in your life is to prove that you can help others and give it back what you said is that to me to finance this philanthropic little vision that you've got of your life to make yourself feel better well you're investing i don't as a gift or anything like that but honestly i mean we can make a difference and do it in a good way and still make money out of it but i didn't want to come in here first of all and say i'm going to make you a load of money that would be a bit rude so does that sound rude to me trust me it's not what we're doing here it's not rude that's exactly what that's exactly what we want no it's i'll get your point though peter jones is showing patience with the entrepreneur and his social conscience but deborah meaden wants to refocus the pitch back onto business i want to get serious because we've had you're very charming i have to tell you and when you deliver you're very likable what i'm not getting is a business proposition at all and i'm and i'm about to lose my interest and unless you can deliver that to me really quickly yeah yeah i mean um it's the the exciting bit um he's been able to um uh empower other artists who can't you know who struggle and don't want to waste that talent that they've got try and put them on the right track so they keep away from your legal stuff david that's lovely yeah but it's not the business proposition yeah i understand yeah definitely i mean i'm confident that there's enough people out there young people or old people you can be confident but you've got to make me confident in the den it's your job david and i'm only saying i'm saying this because it's important that you get this right otherwise you'll walk out of here certainly work without an investment from me now right now i see a lovely guy with a lot of talent and a great idea but i don't see a business proposition that includes numbers that tells me you tell me that i've been to see the guy it's going to cost me that much to develop the app the next phase on is to do that then i'm going to need to employ peep is there anything like that uh i haven't approached and sat down with an app producer and said this is what i'm after how much is this going to cost stop i've done i've done i've done do you know you haven't done the most fundamental basic thing which is to sit down with somebody and say can this be done this is not my failure to understand this is your failure to present me with a business proposition i'm just left with no reason to invest so i'm really sorry david but i'm out the joking's over and the entrepreneur is reminded of the potential brutality of the den in the starkest terms have the other dragons also lost their patience david thank you very much it's a very entertaining pitch but i'm not going to invest in this i can't so i'm out okay no worries thank you very much well i think there's something in it that's quite interesting but i think i find a lot of your target market probably can't afford this so i think for that reason i can't invest in your company so i'm out david i mean i have to say the longer i sit here there is a side of me that would love to invest because i can see the potential but it's too risky what you should do is go and take some of these graffiti artists and become almost like an agent and produce these sell them on a website and see what volume you're going to get because that will give you an indication of whether it's actually what people want to put in their homes i just don't feel that i want to invest 70 000 pounds on something which just you haven't come in with enough information um and so for that reason i'm sorry but i'm out only one dragon remains the tycoon whose name david struggled to remember peter jones has in the past taken a gamble with entrepreneurs brave enough to show personality you were david brown art your aren't you yeah brand you're not banksy i knew this was going to come up if you were seriously if banksy had come in the den ten years ago yeah and pitch the way you've pitched today i would literally put a flea in his ear and tell him to get out and think he's being an absolute idiot and i would have made the biggest mistake of my life i'm the type of guy that would go for something like this because i think you're on to something but i hate to say because you are an incredibly nice bloke i wish you'd come in here just with one or two little bits of research so i'm going to say good luck to you but i'm not going to invest i'm out thank you very much for no i wish every bit of luck but don't spray anything in our lift on the way out no no no no officer there's no cameras out there we'll be watching so near yet so far for david he leaves the den without the investment he wanted to create a business that takes his graffiti art into bedrooms across the country people like that though i'd love to find ways to invest in i liked him liked him a lot i really don't think they were that interested and i can't wait for them to go home and their kids to say to them i can't believe you didn't invest in the graffiti geyser sir oh well that's their fault [Music] hello my name is anne hempstock i'm here to tell you about my new product cream cutie and i'm seeking 150 000 pounds investment for 20 of my company cream cutie is an all-natural chocolate and orange wine based cream liqueur with no artificial ingredients preservatives or e-numbers which gives a much lighter and fresher taste sensation when we looked to go into the cream liqueur market we knew we had to do something totally different most people have a big bottle of cream liqueur in their cupboard they've drunk half with friends put it in the cupboard and forgotten about it our research showed that consumers wanted a smaller bottle size most importantly we knew we had to bring in the retail price point of 199 which is a great impulse buy price point and great for a new product we launched cream cutie at the speciality show in london last year and cream cutie found its route to market through speciality shops delicatessens food halls and quality tourist outlets as they gave me my first big break last month and have given me seven stores in scotland with a further 31 coming online in september spa scotland are also taking cream cutie this christmas i'm seeking the investment to raise the profile of cream cutie would you like to try some well i would why not let's try some [Music] ann hempstock is confident she can build a successful drinks brand around her cream cutie chocolate and orange cream liqueur if she can secure an investment of 150 000 pounds in return for a 20 steak hi anne i'm james hi um what's your background what what sort of my background is i've already devised and sold on two brands and one was a sugar free drinks brand and the other was a vodka alcopop brand and i then brought out whiskey brand which is on sale in harrods and i looked into the cream liqueur market and brought this one out tell me how successful the other brands that you've developed have been the other brands well i sold the first one on and i moved on then what did you get for that 850 000. okay and i then moved on to my uh vodka alcopop brand webster and i sold that for 400 000 to a whiskey company and tell me a little bit about the numbers what what sort of volume have you sold the product in so far i've sold about 70 000 bottles so far in six months what does it cost to make what does it cost to bottle each each the the complete cost is about a pound is a pound so what's your cost your pound what's your wholesale price on average it's 120 a bottle i'm only making about on average 20 p a bottle okay and clearly knows the business but her proven track record has raised more questions than it's answered for theo per fetus how passionate are you about this very passionate or i wouldn't be standing here in front of you yes i do and i've proven itself and i think it can go further than it's gone at the moment so if you believe in it why are you offering me 20 for 150 000 pounds you just admitted you got you sold two brands so you've had five hundred half a mill over half a million pounds yeah you've had so why are you going to share this great success with the rest of us when really you can put your own money into it well first of all the over half millions over 10 years which doesn't really work out very much i've invested when i've done when i sold the first brand i used that to pay off all my debts and to give myself some security and the extra cash i've put into this brand and i'm here because i want the profile that a dragon can bring to the brand and holding her own under a grilling about her finances now peter jones turns his gaze to the financial position of cream cutie anne i'm peter hello i want you to tell me why you justify your company being worth three quarters of a million pounds when you make diddly squat it's just it's a long time i'm very passionate about cream cutie and i'll hang on and i mean i've proven it sales no no i actually don't care about that well that's the valuation that i would that's the the the cost i would need if i to sell it just now because i think i've worked hard to produce the brand i've brought it to market and i've proven it sales and i've got it into the supermarkets and i've got it almost there but it doesn't make any money but it will make money it's not all about making money now it might be for you but not if you've got it you got told well i've never had so much nonsense on my life that's absolute rubbish at the end of the day you value a business based on its ability to make money yes so if your company is not making any money and hasn't proven the ability that it can make money you're worth nothing well it's the investment it's the the long-term investment for a brand i've brought every brand has to start somewhere it just doesn't cover unless you're a big company but what's the justification for your valuation the justification is that's the money i would look for if i wanted to sell it nobody's going to buy it well you're not going to buy it but somebody else might buy it why you think there's idiots because of the potential of the brand [Music] peter jones isn't convinced by anne's rebuttal and duncan bannertine isn't going to let the issue lie you're looking for a hundred and fifty thousand for twenty percent yes and in three years time what do you think you sell the brand for a million pounds and maybe well i said that that was maybe a bit enthusiastic but i would hope that it would be it's less than a million well i would hope it would be six hundred thousand pound plus well if you sell it for six hundred thousand punishable years time yes the investor who's got twenty percent paid 150 for it will have twenty percent of six hundred thousand pounds which happens to come to a hundred and twenty thousand so that means we'll lose thirty thousand pounds yeah well that's why i said the the the million because i'm hoping well okay let's go to the million figures if we're investing work out if we invest a hundred and fifty thousand now for twenty percent right right and you're still in three years time for a million pounds i got two hundred thousand pound back yes do you think that's good no but i'm hoping it'll be more than a million you just said it maybe six hundred thousand so so far i can lose thirty 000 pounds i can make less than what i can make out the bank by getting up to 200 000. but there's some sky-high thing in your dreams up here how do you get if i sell it for a million you only get 200 000. because 120 of the company sell it for a million you get eighty percent eight hundred thousand i get twenty percent two hundred thousand come on well i mean you're ticking the michael no i'm not taking the michael i mean i believe in the brand and i might sell it for two million you might sell it for three and i think i think you spent too long in the alcoholic drinks industry i'm seriously seriously getting hacked off um even if you do sell six hundred thousand fifty thousand bottles a month which i don't believe you're gonna get to but even if you did you're gonna make eight thousand three hundred pounds a month profit gross profit it's a joke okay i would be happy with that well of course you would but i wouldn't so i'm out okay and i'm actually insulted that you've come here today and asked us at this level i'm not stupid i can do numbers you're asking us to lose money i'm not here to lose money i'm here to make money so i'm out okay and i think i'd rather hit the bottle and invest in this because i would lose my money so i too now i'm out in a devastating flurry three angry dragons have declared themselves out is duncan banertine about to add to anne's woes and i'm not sure if you misunderstood but in order for you to give the investor his money back in this we'd have to sell this company for 750 thousand pounds just to give the investor back his money and i don't think you're even gonna achieve that okay you might achieve it you might achieve a million but it's still not a great return i could put my money in the bank interest on it and do better than that so this is not gonna give them the return and so for that reason i'm out okay and hopes of securing the 150 000 pound investment are fading fast will james khan see enough potential to invest in her and i've been very impressed with you i think you've done remarkably well you've built two successful brands and you've made money out of them and i think for you as an individual i think you'll probably will make some money out of this but i think with your own numbers you've clearly demonstrated that you've overvalued the business okay and for that reason i'm out oh i'll prove you all wrong i'll be back indeed fantastic we'll be pleased i will good luck thank you very much thank you thank you a defiant han hemstock is leaving the den without an investment unable to convince the multi-millionaires they'd make any money by backing her with consumers looking for ways to save money at the moment staycations have soared in popularity next into the den the husband and wife team alan and liz collaran from dewsbury with an innovative product aimed at the caravan market hello dragons my name is liz colleran and this is my husband alan colleran our company's rascals memory foam and we're pitching for 80 000 pounds for 10 of our business we've been married 28 years and our company came about from a simple idea we had whilst we were out caravaning with the children our best-selling product is also our most innovative product the duvalier the dual a sleep system is really simple it has a special memory foam base which smooths out the lumps and bumps in how it kind of unseats it's totally open on one side so you're not constricted like a normal sleeping bag it's also when you're up against the cold caravan wall it's totally joined it can't come off you never get a call back or call bottom you can have one for single or simply put two together to make a double and when you get home from your holiday it's easy peasy to wash you simply take the memory foam out take the duvet out and you wash it as a sheet so far we've sold about 10 000 of these units and each one retails at 120 pounds so that's sales of about 1 million pounds on this product alone in fact we can't make them fast enough we need your help and expertise to help us break into the huge european and american markets thank you for listening would you like to come and try a well-honed pitch from family business owners liz and alan colleran they need an 80 000 pound investment to expand their caravan accessory company and are willing to part with 10 equity in return it is quite cozy though having enjoyed the product hillary duvet is first to quiz the duo liz alan i think you've got a fantastic concept what made you think of this i was a housewife until seven years ago we only got the idea because i slept in a caravan and had a bad back and we we bought piece of memory foam looked at it thought well we could do that nobody's doing this we've got pattern applications pending on it and i mean at the moment and for the last seven years has been alan and myself just thrashing things backward and forward okay tell me epitomize your vision we're looking at speed here want to get it out fast roll into different countries at the moment we're only scratching the surface there's 2.2 million caravans in holland germany the uk and the netherlands which each have two of these beds uh everybody no matter what country you're in will get up on the morning from one of those beds with a bad back and you're telling me that there's absolutely nobody else in this country or in europe doing this no a confident start from the experienced entrepreneurs leisure industry expert deborah meaden wants to delve into the detail behind their business liz allen um i mean so far great story so what are your can you give me some financial information probably only need a couple of years in 2009 we turned over uh about 465 000 with a net profit of about 35 000. 2010 was 800 was about 800 000 with a net profit of 110 000. okay um the turnover looks fantastic but i mean it's a nice enough profit but it i would have hoped that it might have been higher can you talk me through your p l just for last year just tell me what you're spending your money on we've got a factory shop showroom wedges we're just stuck what kind of money are they then factory um that's 16 000 a year shop well that's in with that actually it's all in sales staff staff we've got 10 staff 10 stuff um i don't know we don't know those we don't have those details i'm afraid well we would know within five seconds of getting back to the office i would say no i would say i'm an investor all i want to know from you is how your business works and things like what is your wage bill is pretty simple stuff what can i say it's an awkward moment for the cholerans a failure to demonstrate a grasp of your numbers rarely goes down well in the den will the couple fare any better under the scrutiny of peter jones liz allen just going through those those costs um i've got 800 000 revenue this year i've got 110 000 profit i'm looking for costs within the business what do you pay yourselves we pay ourselves a dividend uh from the profit and and we we dip into that for the salary so what would you say that you took we took about 15 000 each no between you okay i got the feeling do you run your business a bit like a lifestyle so you take money when you need to yeah yes we do actually yeah yeah yeah we do what else do you spend money on um i would say we spend try exhibitions exhibitions yeah we do loads of exhibitions insurance light eating yes yes any vehicles that you've bought we've only got one we don't spend money on anything i'll tell you well you do spend money on something because you're spending how much do you think you spend a year when you say you don't spend any money on anything you could say we should have our finger on the bottom but we are running around like lunatics running this business we're busy there's only us two right but liz as an investor how do you think that makes me feel well i would think we're running around like lunatics for the last seven years we have worked really hard we have brought a product to the market no no liz when i ask you the questions you haven't got the answers and now you're getting extremely defensive you should know absolutely you should know okay sit right now liz allen your numbers don't add up it's ridiculous and it's ludicrous and i am out a brief but disparaging contribution from duncan bannertine as liz and allen lose their first dragon will theo perfetus be more forgiving you knew you were coming here to look for investment did you not think that someone might just ask you those questions yeah we've thought about every single question you could think and no we didn't think of that you know what a mistake seriously guys i quite like the concept purely for its simplicity but it's not investable for me i'm gonna say i'm out thank you liz allen as a business i can't see getting a return at the anything like what you've offered but i think you've done a really good job to create something from nothing you're amazingly passionate about what you've done so good luck on your journey but i'm not going to invest today and i'm out all right okay i i'm really disappointed i've got no problem with people getting passionate but lizzy border on the defensive you have got to give me a reason and enough information to want to hand you my money because i honestly i promise you this if you had you'd have had an investment from me and i think that is a great shame i can't do best i'm sorry debra and for that reason i'm out a somber mood takes over the den and the once confident entrepreneurs look for lawn just one dragon remains has hilary duvet seen anything in the business that could turn around their investment fortunes um liz allen you see i think that you both need quite a lot of mentoring i think we do need some help you know i think this product's so good that sometimes it's quite daunting there's lots of different uses there's trucks there's a whole truck market that that's out there boats we sell them to boats i think you've got a huge market some of which you've not even touched on you need some input into the business to help you with the direction but unlike deborah i don't really think that's the end of the world you know i've got people that can teach you that and keep the finger on the button so because i do think it has got vision i'll offer you the full amount but i want 26 percent you can't make it 20 no i'm sorry i can't move from 26 but no because it's a limited company anybody owning 75 of a business has got total control so i need that protection and therefore i need 26 percent can we go another word a dramatic development in the den as hillary duvet presents the duo with an investment lifeline but it comes at a cost more than a quarter of their company is it just too high a price to get a dragon on board i i'd like to take it hillary but i want alan to be happy with it obviously alan don't say all right because your wife says all right and you've been married 28 years she's not going to divorce you now yes yes please we'd love you this please love it thank you hold on liz and alan have done it in a last-minute turnaround they've secured the den's newest dragon and 80 000 pounds of her cash look forward to working with you guys [Music] now listen allen are you happy with what you've just signed up to well i am the more i think about it the more happier i'm getting i think we did say 20 was going to be our limit but for the sake of six percent which i said to alan at the wall when we got to the wall are we going to lose this allen for six percent would we go home and regret it i don't know we would have done nothing yeah we probably would well very good luck with it thank you thank you you

Channel: Dragons' Den

Views: 1,700,002

Keywords: dragons den, dragons den uk, evan davis, deborah meaden, peter jones, touker suleyman, tej lalvani, business pitching, entrepreneur, game show, reality tv, shark tank, dragons den 2021, dragons den best pitch, dragons den full episode, learning how to pitch a business idea, business 101, dragons den business lessons, know your numbers, know your numbers business, know your numbers dragons den, dragons den special episode, top 5 dragons den products, lessons from the den

Id: DF01t5HxizE

Length: 61min 40sec (3700 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 14 2021