NEW Balance Dataslate Review - Is This 10.5th Edition? - Warhammer 40k

[Music] welcome back to the good talk the show where we discuss what's hot what's gr and everything between in the wild world of Warhammer my name is Adrian I'm joined of course by Brian and behind the camera today we have Lindsay hello we're excited to be here it is a massive day for Warhammer 40K we of course recently got new missions we got two codexes but today we are fully arrived into Edition 10.5 massive balance data slate uh we also have uh lots of points changes and FAQs and a ton of different things so there's a ton to go over um of course this is going to be not a first look but kind of First Impressions we we've done a little bit with with this and we're excited about lots of things it's a Hu huge sweeping changes it feels like we've finally arrived at the addition you know like we're here this is the first change we are we are seeing uh kind of quality of life changes but we're also seeing just kind of General improvements rather than like fixing something that's on fire right definitely definitely this definitely feels more refined than it has been previously which is nice to see it's very refreshing uh and it's very hopeful going forward for the game right like gives me a lot of Hope going forward for the game exactly yeah last uh last couple weeks we of course had the new missions and we had our our list of grudges today less so actually I'd say General reception for us is positive uh we're excited for these changes you feel like good quality of life changes good adjustments and they really get into the nitty-gritty on factions that needed help so we're going to be going through um all of that stuff kind of an overview of the changes what you need to know especially as pertains to your uh faction we're going to focus on the balance data slate changes there are a few fundamental FAQs and a few points things that are worth also discussing um but of course as always this is a live discussion so thank you for joining us live if you have any questions comments let us know right now we're going to be here for about the next 45 minutes before we go play the brand new rules newly updated adeptus mechanicus versus newly updated tyrin I'm so excited for the new tyrin it's going to be AES I can it's going to be so cool so many tweaks right and it's like the small stuff but they all add up and it makes like a really big impact exactly and and today we kind of have a little sampler where we're we're trying basically as many changes as possible for both of those armies uh cool well with that let's just get on into it and we're going to go ahead and pull up the balance data slate itself uh here we are of course this is on Warhammer community if you're not familiar uh there is a uh document that you can download with all of these changes so we're going to go go right on through it so first of all core rules changes and a lot of these have to do with strategems and strategy refunds uh so first you can see on the left modifying a strategy CP cost previously they had this this was very very impactful in the early days they changed it so that any ability that lets you modify the cost of a strategy can only be done on a battle tactic that was kind of a half measure I think it go okay but not perfect and as the Codex is kind of released you could see the impact of that more and more right just talk to the custodi players who have like no Battle Tactics now uh they've changed it so that that works on any category of uh strategy but it only reduces the cost by one uh at the end of the day this basically means it works on all your strategems there are a few two costers that will just go down to one but I think it's still a a great deal honestly yeah I like the idea that your strats will always be affected by this thing because like you were saying like there's some codexes that just have don't have ble tactics or there's one and it's just like not really worth even using ever uh so this just makes it feel much better for everybody uh that has these types of abilities in the Army yeah it definitely and it limits the potential abuse I think some of the problematic ones are frankly gone we don't need to worry about those anymore a lot of the strats have been just kind of changed or adjusted we're talking about early days like GSC and lar look completely different now anyways so there's no need to have that restriction right um I I will mention the the uh the strategems that can be used more than once per phase SL turn I want to talk about that before we talk about Vex because this is also related any strats that let you or any abilities that you use a strp twice in a phase such as uh spe buring captains uh basically don't work anymore so that is interesting I think it's kind of a onew punch where they're saying okay they're going to be free but you can't double up on these strats anymore and they really want you to not be able to have just like a singular plan right like I'm just going to charge in I'm going to do like double Lance here and here looking at you melody um things like that and obviously while as a player I'm a little bit sad to not be able to kind of have that that really nicely honed machine um I think it's totally fair call uh just kind of reducing that space to to to kind of avoid potential uh issues I guess I'll say uh there's a thing for if it's called out specifically by name right ex yeah like over watch hero convention grenade is a big one um speaking of which there are some changes to grenade but uh those those all when they get called out specifically so like uh the reducted sabator uh the grenade guy from death guard all get changed y um I guess might as well talk about grenades since we're here uh now I believe the way it's written is you cannot fall back and throw grenades anymore it was always a little weird a little wacky because it's in the shooting phase but it's not a shooting attack you don't have to be eligible to you do have to be eligible to shoot you just can't have it's you need to have been eligible right that's what you just could not have shot and then you get to throw grenades and then you get to shoot afterwards um but now you just can't fall back I will I will say I do appreciate the the article that Warhammer Community put out where they kind of hit a few of these and give some rationale much appreciated where they're like yeah we want grenades to be like something you throw in as you're going into combat right it's before you shoot it's before you charge and running back and throwing grenades wasn't really something that they wanted us to do so you know fair fair fair is fair whatever um so so that's grenades that's strats there secondly uh vets which is kind of a colloquial term we refer to uh we used to refer to abilities that increase the cost of your strategems um for the rest of the game we saw the first change of this in the new Cipher and we all complained about how terrible it was basically new Cipher says if you're within 12 of him it just increases the cost of your strategems by one um well as much as we didn't like that because it was weaker than everyone else's now everyone is the same yeah so if you want to if you have that ability CP just stash just cost one more when you're within 12 yeah it's weird I mean it's different I guess it's different right something we have to get used to and I have to imagine we will see a lot less of those types of characters um like the cus for example that would just sit back in a board Edge wait for uh you know like deploy tele armers or whatever the case is and just use that ability whenever they need it now you have to be more aggressive with those characters which means they have the potential to die yeah you're usually moving within your loone off range so you can get killed right I think it does align with the kind of design values we've seen from the studio in the last mission update where they they they got rid of a lot of the secondaries that require you to like wait in the battlefield for a certain spot at a certain time with multiple units they made the message go they don't want that they want us to be fighting which I think most players will appreciate um if you're not me I like standing in placees look I appreciate not having to interact with your opponent but I do agree that having a more interactive game is just better yeah exactly so it forces us to be more aggressive with that uh so that's Vex that's strategems uh Strat that prevent units from being targeted So speaking of which this is basically any strategen that gives you loan operative effectively is now going to make you untargetable beond 18 rather than 12 um checks out again increasing interactiv uninteractive you know what I'm trying to say un interacti ability um and makes people play more aggressively so it's a fine change you know uh and strateg that add new units to your army um this is now once per game uh so guard players I think are probably the potentially the biggest hit by this where they'd be recycling like kerin CR oh the cruit not the CR poor cruit poor cruit yeah yeah this change I'm not like w I don't I don't hate it I don't love it yeah I'm kind of indifferent to it to be honest like because often times like you would use the Strat a couple of times but you're not going to use it every turn right so like you might use it one less time in a vacuum I understand this change but in in reality I I don't really remember people using this a ton in the first place so little bit odd I can imagine that used it consistently like every turn was probably the crew yeah the AR all about that's like the only St really that they had come on James just let them have it it's fine make an exception it's fine yeah exactly nobody cares uh so that is that's the core battle battle state of State changes remember these are changes that they could revert or adjust in the future the grenades change is part of an actual FAQ to the game um there's another one worth mentioning which is tank shock and this is one of my few gripes with it basically they did not like the fact that Walkers oh they they wanted tank shock to be literally you have a tank and you run it in and it kind of ramps people in a way that like normally they wouldn't be a combat unit they didn't appreciate the fact that you had dreadnots and Walkers that would run in have a super high strength weapon and basically just use it to do even more damage just a dunk on unit right I can appreciate that I just don't agree with the way that they changed it what they did was they said okay instead of tank shock being based off your strength it's going to be based off of your toughness yeah um my issue is I'm an orc player and you have things like the wrecking ball which is a horrible weapon but it's a high strength right and it was this kind of Perfect Design space to be like it's basically just for tank shock um so in my personal opinion I wish they had just if you're worried about Walkers you literally call them out make it not work for Walkers yeah make it only work for other people so I'm not I don't I don't agree with that CH I mean it yeah I'm not sure that I'm a fan of it either to be honest I like the idea of that tanks get to do tank things and including Walkers right like they should be able to just walk into infantry and like walk over infantry you know and step on them and crunch them as they walk like a dreadn walking into grots mhm what right exactly it so crazy it's not that big of a deal to me but you know unfortunately it is what it is it is what it is yeah not the end of the world um again it's like we were saying it's different so we just have to get used to it not necessarily bad it's not necessarily like a worse change M it's just different it's just different and no double uh brutalis dreadn mortal wounds which Sor again sorry Melody this is not your day sorry that poor brutalis can't catch a break yeah Barry yeah there's a poor Barry in chat poor Barry Melody yeah oh how is chat doing chat is chat's having a good time there's you know I think there's there's good feelings towards the data the the data slate right now and just a lot of people discussing different changes what they're excited for you know things that they're kind of bum doubt about but it's a it's a good vibe yeah no absolutely I think yeah it's it's a big day big changes for everyone I wanted to just actually this is oh we actually do have the article pulled up can we take a look at that real quick uh was it uh it's actually going to be the left hand the leftand most one and then go to meta The Meta watch one on the right and then I just feel like I'm missing some core thing so go ahead and let's scroll down uh yeah keep going keep going keep going keep going strategems we talked about tank shot uh pause there we talked about Lop that's fine uh movement uh yeah we can scroll down to movement here uh so movement the pivoting is hard and yeah I think this is a a good change for accessibility basically everyone was always moving their vehicles wrong all the time frankly mostly to their advantage but that's neither here nor there um so instead now if you are a monster vehicle it's two it cost cost you two Ines to Pivot any amount you can do a full 360 turn you wouldn't but you could and it'll cost you just two inches no matter how big big you are obviously this is better for some vehicles and others but just simplifies things makes it less fiddly and if you're not a monster vehicle pivots are free which can give you extra line of sight but I'm totally on board because it it kind of gets rid of a little bit of like the fiddlin and you can make your models look cool and actually face without Chang help play the game a little more thematic yeah because like you want your guy to face the dude he's about to fight when in reality or previous iteration of this rule you had to actually like he the movement technically but often times it was just like well I know I can't do this but I'm just going to do it if you agree with it we're going to face each other right exactly because you face One Direction because you're hiding your like sore that's sticking out but then like you go in and it just looks dumb yeah I I think this is I mean it's definitely a good change I think it's still a little clunky to me I think it's a step in the right direction for sure but again because like what you were saying like unless you're like an actual square like a perfect square yeah you gain a lot of movement by just rotating two inches on some of these larger Vehicles like a night pivoting and only spending two inches is much more impactful than like I don't know Rhino or something right because you gain a lot of distance and you can get a lot of L side so I think it's a step in the right direction I think they it could still use a little bit of work in my opinion yeah um but I'm happy to see that they're trying to address it exactly one Trend which um I think is in the data slate but I just want to mention I don't love is a lot of these big Walkers and vehicles and super Heavies that can go over terrain this four inches or tall you can do it but after you do so you roll a dice on a one you get Battle shocked like they trip or something and I'm like again I don't think kns are a problem right now like this is not the thing we need to be dealing with um so and also yeah the amount of 4in terrain isn't super common W's train is 5 in uh like the first level that's true yeah ex they're not really walking over crates I guess it's like it's awkward and when you are having to like navigate between like tight terrains like for example front line setups the 2-in pivot actually is going to be very harsh because it's every pivot no matter how small right so it's going to be it's going be a weird time to be playing nights I think yeah um anyways moving along I think yeah I just want to cover all these These are kind of core changes and then we'll go back to the balance date that gets a bit more nitty gra into the factions so we can scroll down just a bit here Lindsay Mortals and devastating wounds oh they're back baby yeah was say the headline is Mortals are back but with a Twist yeah um basically devastating does do morals now but they don't carry over all you custo these players all calm down attach you calm down it's fine um and I think this change is fine yeah it's fine the the biggest thing that it gives is if you have a FAL pain against Mortal wounds right it lets you use that against devastating wounds uh I think that this is just like a confusing change if they wanted to to make it so you could use your FAL pains against Dev wounds they should have just put that in there like if you have a feeling of pain it against Mortal wounds specifically it also works against Dev wounds because when you say that Dev wounds are also Mortals but they're not but they don't roll over so now they're actually not mortal wounds yeah exactly it doesn't make any sense so I think the idea is there and I agree with the the sentiment but the way that they did it is not correct in my opinion they should have just made it if you have a f opin against Mortals you also get it against death yeah um I think that's totally fair but yeah I yeah totally agree um so that's Mortals um and then we can scroll down a bit we will we will talk about admech once you get to the bound state of slate we'll talk about thousand Sons we'll talk about Dark Angels we'll definitely talk about I know yeah demons points Okay cool so that's kind of the the core changes U there might be a couple things let us know in chat but we can hop back over to the balance data slate now all right uh so let's go down to the next page where we're going to get a bit more nitty-gritty with uh units and things so sisters no faction changes but I guess we can mention right now they got a lot of points hikes yeah they do a lot a lot of points I'm proud of GW because I was the first to say I don't think that they're going to have the foresight to change the points uh after releasing this incredibly powerful critics yeah and they did so good job yeah that's that's uh I was very concerned when when I got my little hands on the Codex as I'm sure was everybody else that saw all of all of the rules that were leaked or whatever the yeah sky falling new lar is here yeah exactly um I'm happy to say that they have sufficiently gotten their points increased uh is it going to be enough I hope so right um we'll have to play it you know obviously but um I am hopeful that they were able to put out a fire before it even started exactly I think first glance I like it as well it's a lot it's like 20 some there 30 40 points increases on on units so I think it's good we'll have to play obvious yeah obviously we'll have to test it out cu it also could have gone like too far in One Direction like the other direction um I don't think that's the case but it is possible uh so again we'll just have to play and you as we play as a community we'll figure it out together but let us know of course in chat yeah um real quick I I just we just had a Super Chat come in that I want to that talks about um pivoting sure um it's from fat St dreamer thank you so much fat stay for the Super Chat and they say hey got pivot and Titanic a bit wrong once you pivot once that is the only penalty uh all other pivot cost you additional movement also you can only take BS when passing through terrain larger than four correct yeah that's what we said with the terrain they're saying pay for one pivot you pay for one pivot and the rest are free which we knew uh but as soon as you pivot any amount you take the penalty for moving yes for the what we were saying all so like even if you need to squeeze through like a tiny little half inch whatever doesn't matter you got to spend the two and that's kind of what we the basic can be awkward yeah but appreciate the help honestly uh and yeah if we have any any timely super chats feel free to interrupt us Lindsay sounds good um there's so much to go through so um cool so let's go back up a bit um so again sisters no battles no B balance dayplay changes but lots of points custodies which are playing on Saturday we've got oh sorry they're above the I for some reason my whole brain was thinking that this whole page was was Sister oh yeah no I didn't see the sisters none yeah you're like ah whatever no changes are changes there we go um I love it custodes so we are playing these Saturday it's going to be a rematch grudge match between custodis and Orcs um so two changes one uh actually chat you're going to have to help me out on this one I meant to look this up uh The Shield host it's a minor change it's something about the bullet points so my apologies let me know chat what that changes I'm not going to lie to you I didn't when we first looked over this yeah this didn't exist the first the Marshall Mastery uh detach rule like I read it and I was like I don't know what it means and then I completely like brain dumped it because the second one I was like this is crazy this is the one we want to talk about the orc Champions they this is the character specific uh character uh faction character specific faction I guess and before it was basically pick a unit oath Target and you get plus one to wound against it with your character models yes which is like a real head scratcher but now they Chang the character units which is absurdly good it is so strong just pick a unit get plus one to wound with your uh your character units which is every unit in your army essentially it flips that Detachment on its head right before it was like well how do we fit in as many lone characters as possible but now it's you want giant bricks with a character attached which you were probably already taking in your wardens and like I mean and whatever right like you're kind of playing the same game that you were playing before the Codex came out which is I think it's way better I think it's very strong now very very interesting um so we have that we have the the devastating change uh which does help with some of the abilities they have protection against Mortal wounds and uh points change wise they believe it was just forge points changes yeah it was all the forge not all of it but a lot of theu that got changes actually everything that got changes was for Dr but not all the for Dr stuff was Chang exactly yeah so the one that people are kind of a buzz about is of course vitari dropped a ton of points yes they dropped a sign like 35 points wild is insane uh for for three they were they were way too much they were 200 points for three now they're 165 yeah we got to convince Bridger he's a little uncertain and I will say to his credit they can't attach characters so they're not necessarily the orc Champions unit but like well maybe they're good for shield host very interesting depending on what those bullet points say yeah any any word from chat on yeah yeah so uh uh thank you Willow for for laying it out uh they say you now pick one plus one AP now you now pick plus one AP or crits on fives every turn instead of getting both once so much better yes I love it okay okay cool cool cool that's great yeah the the one what basically a lame W was horrible um but now you pick one every turn so you always get to do something that that feels much better so much better so love these changes I'm excited for custodi players they've been very sad so I think I will say though they didn't have to wait too long which is nice like it's good to see that as much as you had to suffer for like a month it was only a month you look you're not the ad players yeah speaking of which let's take a look adep mechanicus there's so much here big changes so at a high level most of these changes are um weapon profile changes so you can you can look that up for yourself they're just they're all increases couple highlights the the uh chicken Walker L cannons are now two shots instead of just being single shot twin linked uh which is way better you're you have the same um on average it'll be the same but the potential is much higher most of the stuff got more shots yeah so the dun crawler we're playing today had its uh what is it the heavy phospher Blaster uh tripled the shots it went from it's bottom right here went from four shots 12 ap12 damage to 12 so we're playing that today it's going to be fun Ripple the shots all 12 attacks is a lot but like four at that same profile yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah like it doesn't make any that's such a bad gun it was just an Absol give it to any army and every Army would like I don't even or would be like I hate this gun I don't want it like I don't care that hits on fours I don't want it exactly it's terrible I would rather just have like heavy stubbers or something like it's oh honestly and you're paying for that big ch it's a beautiful modeled um so weapon changes cool the big change of course happens with the doctrina imperatives couple things I'd say overall this will also affect all of well let say all most of your uh priest units so the priests the dominuses all that stuff which is very exciting um it doesn't affect the castellan robots still and I think that's D mostly due to the fact that uh you there's an attachment that does that so they don't want to counter they're not going to give you something for them to make the Detachment worthless and not playable they gave as much as they could without changing that Detachment fair enough here's the way it works and it's it's kind of like what we people were speculating they might do basically the doctrines before you have an offensive one you have a defensive one they always tied to uh the deployment zones right it was like the defensive one you had to be at least touching your deployment Zone the offensive one had to be against units enemy units touching their deployment Zone they have basically made it board wide and instead it's it's reliant on where you are in relationship to your battle line which is a a theme we already see in this book and the battle line are fantastic so this is great so now the protector which is the like defensive one all your weapons have heavy cool all your ballistic skills are improved by one amazing so that'll also stack with heavy heavy by itself was like very Niche and because then you have you can't move right and you to play Warhammer you got to move turns out shocking right um and then uh if if you are within six inches of a battle line or you are battle line you're going to be minus one to hit in a melee I [Music] believe no that's Justus hit one to hit yeah right uh it's the each time a melee attack it is melee okay minus one to hit in melee yeah that's literally the first fourward there it is melee attack all right cool cool so that's that one the offensive one you get assault you have plus one weapon skill and this kind of hearkens back to the way it's been historically and if you're within six of a battle plus one a that is I think a massive massive and that's shooting as well yeah plus one AP oh my gosh you know how many shots Vanguard put out that's so much oh it's awesome so these are huge huge huge improvements massive improvements and I think it's a good change like there was there was speculation of like okay make the doctrines board wide armor contemp board wide is a little ridiculous so they made it basically board wide put a condition on it which is fine and they also changed armor contempt to the minus one to hit which is more reasonable um so these are amazing changes of course points increases do come with that so that whole admech section is all red which is good I don't want this to be a hard army so I'm very excited there's so much to dig into with this faction and it's one of those things like this change doesn't necessarily seem like that massive of a change I mean it is it's a big change it's a subtle thing it's it's again it's a subtle thing but when you stack that with all of the the data sheet changes for the weapons and then also like the points increases as well it just changes the way that the Army plays in like a big way uh which is again exciting refreshing and it kind of it's yeah just exciting to to if you play the army to want to get back into playing the Army exactly so these are the balance data slate changes uh not like FAQ but they're they're pretty Canon at this point so that's admech uh let's take a look at what we have next oh I cry oh no all right well we can be pretty quick here because it's already 11:30 gez Eldar continue to not get love in fact they get hate they got worse just again they got points increased and then there's the indirect change that we didn't talk about yeah we can talk about that uh so indirect it's largely the same except for one massive change which is you can no longer hit on better than a four so an unmodified hit roll of one to three always fails uh so lar the reason it applies to lar is because obviously they have the DC cannons they have like the dark Reapers and stuff uh will never hit on better than a four which hurts real bad that's tough and then also they got the points increases but I'm not going to talk about that too much cuz I I've talked about it enough um in way but this also imps things like guard a much larger way poor guard you know um they saw some points decreases in things like kin and and they're indirect in response to this they are really hit the worst because they were the ones that were hitting on twos indirect regardless of how we feel like we think indirect is bad for the game and certainly two plus is bad for the game but like come on like you guys gave them the indirect attachment like this sucks for guard there's no other way to say that so sad for eldari um their codex can't come soon enough reite they need to rewrite everything yeah but I have hope given the newer codexes and how they've Rewritten things so all these changes are kind of carries over wraith guard you know definitely Nerf the the night spinner still that horizontal move it's like minor changes uh it's not like the incr probably was it's once in each of your turns now it used to be once in each of your phases um so again right a big Nerf well used to be each player right it was any so when it first started it was any phase as many times as you want and then it became only on your turn phase but now it's in your which is fine I don't that's not a big deal that's how it should have been to begin with to be honest yeah very potentially problematic unit already uh so that's lar moving right along let's see what's at the top here uh agents of the this is the same basically just uh adjustments to the exaction squad so you don't spam out the little fivem man so you need you need 10 of them um yeah that's basically it guard as we mentioned probably the biggest change is the change to indirect um this is the same changes from before to make orders actually work so that's you just do them when you enter the battlefield whether you're coming from reserves or on a transport makes sense this next change I actually like combine regiment Detachment this is the change to Born soldiers which was basically if you remain stationary you have lethal hits again moving is key to Warhammer this also doesn't work in your opponent's turn so what they did instead I thought was a good change basically they said you have uh your your non vehicle mon your non- monsters and vehicle have lethal against non- Monsters and vehicles and your monsters and vehicles have lethal against Monsters and vehicles sorry Squadron so I think it's a nice change lethal is awesome and you're going to be specialized at dealing with the things that you're supposed to be dealing with so regiment lethal against non monsters and vehicles Squadron lethal against Monsters and vehicles check this out I think it's a good change and it will work in both turns which is nice yeah because it always feels bad when you get you Ru for half of a battle run you know it's so yeah it's award and then if you don't read the rolles carefully um it's super easy just to get it wrong on accident you can play it in your turn and it's like I totally understand that mistake yeah that's guard uh Templars I don't think this is a change no yeah this is just transport changes they do get some slight points adjustments I will say they definitely are going after some of the more abusive Space Marine Vehicles still Gladiators Lancers redeemers redeemers finally y redeemers are up uh 20 or 25 points yeah they're still great probably not enough still less than 300 still less than 300 um blood angels again same changes from before so on turn they charge get plus two strength plus one attack great adjustment from the last band state of slate um and they have no points changes in the blood Angel rules all the generic Space Marine stuff is what got hit essentially and mostly mostly vehicles at that yeah um chaos Knights uh they basically get the the new adjustments to um super heavy Walkers so you can see there's the battle shock if there go over things that are four or more um and then you can move within engagement range but you can't end within engagement range so you know they don't love the battle shock but is what it is oh this is a big one oh yeah this okay so chaos Bas the warp towns were probably the the most problematic unit that has come out in a very long time uh so they had an ability where as long as they charged yeah and they're no longer in combat yep uh they could just pick themselves up off the table and so there was an interaction with one of the attachments where you can just fall back from combat so they didn't need to kill anything cuz normally obviously the rule would be like charge and you have to kill it in order to do the thing there's attachment where you just have to charge now you're able to fall back and you can go up right uh now you have to actually kill the thing that you were in combat with which is fine I like this change yeah this is a great change it's makes sense it's also accompanied by a pretty hefty points increase on the unit oh my God they went so much so this is a little bit of probably one step too far in the other direction I'm I'm so curious because not only do they get a massive points increase but they also got the Nerf to the rule that made them warrant the points increase in the first place right right um so like a little points increase I think is fine but I don't know about as much as they got it's like they went up like 25 points I think for five it's like 270 for 10 of them yeah it's insane but they were too good before they were way too good they also just didn't really kill anything oh I don't know like they killed small stuff but they didn't like kill bricks of things you know you're not going to go into Terminators and expect to kill five terminators you know what I mean like you're not even going to kill half kill five terminat like it just probably wouldn't happen right through armor contempt and all the other stuff like it just wouldn't happen yeah so like they had a very specific thing that they wanted to go for yeah that way they could use the Ability or they're playing that Detachment just to be annoying to like I'm going to charge you that way next turn and I can get behind you with the you know rapid inra walk right exactly so they were just like an annoying unit I don't know that they did a ton of damage I mean they had potential of course with the r wound always potential I will take my 270 Point warp tals against you and we'll see how this goes these warp tals yeah I'll let you take I'll take these I'll I'll do I'll rock I'll still rock my 20 I just can't play Elder cuz then they actually just kill oh perfect well that's that is one thing I was saying is it kind of reinforces the need sometimes for these bigger squads rather than five man um which uh which is you know fair enough fair enough the five man's though could work against lar five five is perfect a two man could work against I know it's so crazy so chaos space RS that's the only balanced dat they change but they also did see points increases um that's the harshest um there are lots of amazing units like Venom crawlers legionnaires um I think Havoc oddly enough saw an increase but a lot of the classic units did see increases it's not a ton it's like 5 to 10 points totally reasonable they were probably a little too cheap uh vindicators did go up which is good because they were also too cheap but again like five 10 points so I think it's fine Warp Town's really the biggest change so still excited for the faction chaos demons got some love which I'm very very excited for um at a there's a lot of they kind of rewrite a lot of rules here at a high level um and this is where they also gave some commentary in the in the article which appreciate at the high level basically your greater demons now put out an aura of shadow of chaos just like bellor did um that's basically all it is right so you get all the benefits there in um you can have the shorter deep strike you have the minus one uh leadership D3 mortal wounds um it's just nice because you're not rying on bellor as much you're not reliant on holding objectives like as they say in the article these are chaos demons they're not they shouldn't be about like contr objectives yeah so I think my favorite part of this change is the fact that you're no longer required to take bellor right cuz some people just don't want to take bellor it's like almost possible yeah but now you actually have the ability to just emit bellor from the list and take the greater demon if you want to do an all core Army you can do an allore army if you want to do all Z you can do all you know so on and so forth uh so it just makes it uh you can make it an army more unique to yourself right and I like that a lot yeah I think these are great changes and come with some points reductions as well so very very excited for demons uh moving forward new possibilities of course they did retain the Demonic paact rule so that you can't have more non- battle line of a god than you have battle line when you're playing them as allies so checks out um so yeah just a lot of words under demons to say the same thing um Dark Angels I think isn't that yeah I think Dark Angels probably there we go so Dark Angels got some love they were definitely one of the worst factions especially for space even for space marins I guess I should say um so their old attachment rule um was basically if you get battles shocked you maintain oc1 which like while it is useful it's not something you want to have as your core rule like you're just hopefully I get battles shocked so I BL get to use my cool thing it's actually not that cool and you also still have to be batt shocked which means no Strat right exactly yeah okay it's like a half measure feels like precisely so instead they've changed it so that in your command phase you pick one of your units and they get plus one OC awesome love that's great for the narrative much for useful for the game and then their Inner Circle task force which is based around their their death ring nights and things like that also got a very tasty uh change basically you um yeah in your movement phase you pick one of two abilities can we scroll down just a little bit Lindsay um so we pick either an objective you don't control or I believe all the objectives sorry you pick one you hold or all the ones you don't hold uhhuh yeah and then those are your vow objectives yeah that's the big change so while someone's want enemy units on a v objective plus one to wound with your Deathwing infantry units so good it's awesome so good way more flexible way more applicable yeah and I like the the stipulation where it's you pick one that you control mhm or you can choose any number that you don't control right exactly so it just it lets you play much more flexibly like because if it was just one or the other then again you're not getting as much value out of it and then it goes back to the whole like well I don't get to use my rule as you know as often as I I should right and it gets a bit away from the like well worth be spr so we kill one thing really good each turn you still have Oath but like you also get this which is a bit more flexible um and it also kind of encourages you to kind of spread out rather than be like here's my one massive brick that will just kill something each turn yeah which I guess you still could do you could definitely you really wanted to because you could just select the objective that you're standing on be like come take it from me exactly this encourages other game plays St um so then we have some data sheet changes which we which um I like I think I think you'll enjoy them to Brian um Deathwing Knights the Maes of absolution regained their anti-monster anti- vehicle um they were atrociously powerful before the Codex got hit a little bit too hard strength six come on nobody should what are you talking about so now they also have anti- monster vehicle four plus which is great and the power weapon in the squad gets um extra damage so it's damage two um great changes love to see it yeah cool uh let's see what we got next yes oh oh and then the sword uh Inner Circle companions their swords are finally ap2 like a Power sword great change they were so so bad cuz like they have power swords I know that are just worse in every way right and they're so cool they got a got an unopen box right there know why was unop I know it's such a shame uh death guard these are largely the same u in fact this might be all the same so the contagion adjustments looking fantastic and then of course they do have the adjust the the call out for grenades um death guard they did go after some of the key units um such as the biologist putrifier the uh noxious blightbringer I believe which in my in my my amateur opinion I I think death guard should all be about plague Marines and rhinos and these characters and um they definitely went after them again not huge changes but enough that like if you're trying to spam them out across the board you're really going to feel that so there's also a Nerf which I'm a fan of uh which is the indirect Nerf plague brush crawlers hit on threes um you could take Morty to IGN nor modifiers and what this meant was people often take mortarion as like a babysitter for half the game for these tanks I hated that nothing against the players but like that sucks that sucks and now there's not much reason to do that because you're hitting on fours anyways only ever hit on fours there you go yeah great um so that's Seth guard overall I think they'll be still quite strong in the new Mission packs uh Death Watch to my knowledge nothing new this is just a bunch of changes still a very bad faction um hopefully we miss something and thei nothing new here this is the changes from power from Pain gen Stiller Colts no rule changes but lots of points decreases I like that none none nothing to say here right I I hope it's enough I'm slightly skeptical but but there are certainly reductions remember also folks when you look at the sisters and the gene still C points adjustments those are all compared to the codexes so when abin say no change um do they actually go up in the Codex when something says no change it means no change from the Codex so it actually might be adjusted from what you're currently playing so keep in mind uh I think GRS are largely the same this the vortex Doom is just you can't Target Lan up yeah um which is great fine and then this is all the the same stuff ignores cover on the heavy side cannons yeah I think it's all the same um that takes us I believe up to the next page which is KN uh same same thing as before they they reccon their Armory Rule and pretended like they didn't me they me this all along Bonds Mill abilities only apply to armorers super heavy Walker change which we don't love uh let's keep keep going down uh yeah CP changes botan I believe is the same as well oh sorry they increased the number of units you can pick on Onslaught I think yeah um what ever it's so many units just they had uh no points changes I don't think might I think they had no points changes wild um hyper cryp Legion you cannot pick Cosmic Precision on Monster units AKA Katan fine whatever Orcs there's okay there's a lot to on pack here before before you say anything okay okay you might hate what I'm about to say I am so happy that this was addressed and fixed as quickly as it was no I'm I'm on board uh but not just the uh bully boys but also the green tide the green TI was green was way more egregious I think than bully boys bully boys was like the obvious thing and green tide was like that was yeah that was the next thing come down the road yeah so yeah Green tide now uh you only get your five up in save if you have boy Squad of 10 or more which kind of fits the theme you also lose the roll save RS of one which bogged the game down it was strong it was done with mega knobs fine uh TI of muscle Strat which was the plus one to charge equal to the current battle around was clearly not correct so now it's plus one to charge and if you have 10 or more models roll the charge cool which is cool the roll in addition to the plus one is it's important it's important so otherwise you might as well be spending a CP yeah exactly but the plus one right is that's the reason you're taking it yeah yeah so you know obviously a Nerf but I think these are warranted uh and then go get them uh which is the blood surge Strat instead of going to a flat six is now you can roll if you have ton or more models fair fair fair I like it and the mega knobs Crump and time goes to a five plus F of pain like it always should have been yes always always always yes yes now where they did get done dirty in my opinion is they got a 50% points increase I think it's a lot it was it was like a significant I think probably too much yeah oh for sure losing the five of fop pin and then also getting hit with the increases that they got hit with right like what the heck man it feels pretty bad but also you got to pay for your sins I know it was too much it was too much I agree but I mean it's not even our sins is like GW you made these things I know so they got to fix their mistakes and this is how they do that uh they're just I guess this is their way of addressing like we know we made a mistake and we know that this was a problem so here we go yeah yeah exactly they might have overcorrected a little bit overall I think orc's still going to be a very solid position I'm excited to try them out in the new packs yeah um yeah we're actually we're running out of time here yeah like Space Marines Games Workshop doesn't like your iron storm they really hurt them both of their abilities that were oras are now pick one um their strategy costs increased desolation the rest are the same and they also went after all your valuable Vehicles right so like the Reapers and the Lancers all that stuff redemer all went all got up in points which is I think fair cuz that I hate that play style personally like I'd love people to play their tanks but GW needs to design a one that's not like just abusive skew yeah Space Wolves hey sagas are a little bit better you get to pick one at the start of the game that's just applied and then the rest complete at the end of each player's turn so I don't know we'll have to get M on the channel trying them out we'll have to drag her away Kicking and Screaming from uh the white Scar's Detachment but um maybe yeah if you're going to play a bespoke Space Marine chapter yeah you got to play the bespoke space Oh wow if you're going to play Space Wolves you got to play Space Space Wolves just like when you play Templars you got to play Templars Templars those are the actual names of the attach Templar Templars temp Templar we do get a lot of FL we're playing Gladius that's true it's just better all like most of the time that one actually is better that's the problem that's why you can be on your high horse suck of the bear the bear the bear now the Thousand Suns who were doing oh no to changes none there are points changes which is fair because they were very expensive and then thousand suns got hit very very hard um yes they did they I think okay these are all good for the game the health of the game I think that the thousands a little weird because it's a low play rate Army and the people who do play them are very high skilled players so I think it's a little skewed uh in terms of data having said that I agree conceptually with all of these as much as it's going to suck I think the problem with the Army just when you look at it from like the outside in is there's so much Jank going on like if you don't play the army you don't know really what's going on and that's kind of the thing that they tried to address is to to limit the amount of Jank and the amount of feel bads that the opponent has because they just don't understand the Army because even you as the player like there's so much going on with like it's hard to play it's hard to play against so they're trying to to mitigate the amount of yeah uh probably mental capacity it takes to play the game so much and it's easy gotcha and stuff like that it's just rud you know like to quote Melody I've never played a game against thousand suns and felt okay about what happened um so briefly uh the changes are your rituals are one PR P cyer can't just do them on one brutal uh twist of fate takeway saves know is only in your your shooting phase so you can't wait for your opponent to do it and then uh it only gives plus two AP to your ranged attacks brutal uh temporal surge no triple move only double move Fair do bolt now respects loan operative totally fair um and then uh if we can scroll down a bit more we have oh with exalted sorcerer the movement phase ability to slow is now just tied to the shooting so you can't do movement phase and then immediately move away with temporal surge instead you actually have to hit with your flamer um and then it has the same oh no it has modified effects kind of like night spinner so minus two move and minus two to charge so basically hits all across the board they saw minor reductions in units that were seen play such as the scar cult Terminators which like eh so I'm a little concerned for Thousand Suns right now they're a very elite Army yeah and they just got worse as the thing that they did right with not much adjustment to the points I like that GW was like we don't want to make them cheaper because they should be elite I agree with that but I think you didn't really give them an exchange right the rules don't really reflect the way that they want them to play in my opinion so we'll see we'll get them on on the table soon and see how they play tyranids which is a good um segue into to today's match up we playing in just 12 minutes um pids were in a bad spot yeah they were they're rough they also got hurt by the New Missions right OC zero units can't do actions y so no more biov war shooting into the back field and doing some fix secondaries or like rippers or whatever the case rippers right um but they got they got lots of little changes here um synapse range uh you get plus strength in melee yes that's that's cool that's a really cool change uh shadow in the warp if you're within six inches of some of synapse you're one leadership for enemy units fantastic make them more scary right cure Stampede got some love um whether it's enough to take it I'm not sure um you have plus o plus two OC on a t monster unit while you're at starting strength I wish they had not taken start starting strength y uh I think if they had done if you're below starting strength I would have appreciated that more because your monsters will never be at full health why don't you just give them plus 2 OC is that so crazy yeah like if they wanted a stipulation I mean is like if they wanted to give a stipulation to it like you don't get it when you're full health but as you get hurt you get the thing that's much better than you get it only at full health because you'll just get shot one time lose the ability uh which sucks so your car effect herds you can you can get damaged because that is a squad there only squads of two three with um old One Eye so I like the thought but I think it was a little bit of a miss and then untrammeled ferocity um I forget what they changed about this oh I think you can go over the terrain now in the same way that Knights can but you get battle shock you get the batt shock yeah all right whatever uh and then H tyrants now Onslaught grants assault and lethal hits which is awesome because nobody was taking this bub so this is foot Tyrant got s a bunch of new units yep and then the Vanguard Invader got slapped on to the Mok raveners Trigon and uh I think that was it right yeah that's it which is exciting we're going to try Trigon today not because we think it's amazing but because look we got new rules cool yeah it's awesome and then the ex creen what change the ex oh strength eight to nine eight to nine which is important because you don't want it to be works against everything kind of gun but this means it actually works against many transports now which cool fair train effects damage increase so much damage love it D6 plus six it used to be 2 D6 right now it is D6 plus 6 like when you have a strength 18 ap4 gun it's it's got to Dam yeah it's got to do damage yeah that's a great change um and then of course some points adjustments as well things that got nerfed actually went down in points you'll never see a bio again uh and the world leaders sorry Lindsay although you did great with them last time you War actually do damage maybe I don't know maybe ly I'll try it I'll try it B is back yeah yeah thinking B war is a thing yes um and then world leaders these are the same as before I believe so that is the balance data slate um we Tred to kind of cover points where applicable as we go through it um again you're going to have to dig through it yourself there's a ton of ton of stuff I'm sure we missed a couple things MH um but that is the high level I think what we're going to do now because we've got a stream very very soon we're all set up this is going to go ahead and redirect and pass you all through to the uh stream so hang out chat um if you have any carryover uh super chats we'll take them in the next stream and uh we'd love to continue the discussion as we're going through everything today yeah it'll be really nice to be able to Showcase some of the changes here during the game so definitely stick around hang out for the game because it's going to be a lot of fun there's a lot to to unpack with this so much um exciting times yeah yeah yeah uh yeah so we do have quite a few super chats that there's just questions about it that we we can answer during the game and I've already let them know perfect um I do want to thank 95 Ginger rage and J Jupiter for gifting membership thank you so much appreciate it um I love it yeah there's just just a general excitement about it's exciting right we've been like waiting for this and it's like okay okay okay now we can really start yeah it's like what you said it feels like a 10.5 more than it feels like a balanced data slate and it feels it feels good exciting times well folks again the link is going to redirect you directly to the stream which we're going to go live in just a few minutes so uh sit back maybe grab a drink and uh hang out with us in the rest of this exciting day of Warhammer that's going to do it for us we'll catch you very soon on the tabletop bye [Music]

Channel: Tabletop Titans

Views: 9,032

Keywords: Warhammer 40k, 40k, Games workshop, Tabletop, Miniature, Wargaming, tabletop titans

Id: E9iPYeVQYgM

Length: 51min 2sec (3062 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 20 2024