MLB 1986: A Postseason to Remember

they felt they'd be in the world series since the first day of spring training we were just going to dominate and no doubt about it the inevitable has finally become a reality when you come out cold into the lion's den stuff happens unbelievable you're looking at one for the ages here i go to restaurants today and people whisper that's a guy that killed donnie moore [Applause] now gary carter watching the look at the ball you know those guys can believe what they want to believe he turns around and asks doug harvey to check the ball and i've been hearing this for 25 years from last right to the world series you'd love to hear some stuff you hadn't heard before so roger goes seven innings and goes out winning 3-2 i don't know why he would say something like that i've never asked to come out of the game here comes mitchell to score i still get goosebumps when i watch it the nightmares are that you're gonna let the winning run score on a ground ball through your legs [Applause] these two are linked forever as the complete opposite the rule of victory the agony of defeat they sit right here welcome to a season to remember 1986 from lb network studio 42 with tom raducci i'm bob costas obviously the idea for this program comes off of our 20 greatest games series there were games from each of the lcs's in 86 and of course from the world series that made that list we'd have to say that we need to revise the list looking back to the just completed postseason game six of the 2011 world series would figure in there somewhere this whole just completed postseason was terrific if you want one to rival it maybe even exceed it all things considered go back 25 years i think the drama was incredible because there were five games out of 20 in this postseason when a team was one or two outs away from winning the game and lost the game and bob 25 years later the drama is still as exciting now as it was back then so here we go with a post season to remember 1986. what a great series [Applause] unbelievable you're looking at one for the ages here [Applause] tom after the two lcs's both of them nearly unbelievable in october of 1986 baseball fans might have found themselves asking what can they possibly do for an encore then it turns out the world series had just as much drama and intrigue and tremendous anticipation for this matchup new york and boston really the two best teams in baseball and both teams loaded with superstar players here's a quick review of how they made it to the fall classic beginning with the red sox [Applause] and game one about to come your way now on a clear crisp new england night grip to left field into the gap and that's in there for extra bases and fenway will become very quiet as the angels lead four nothing there are two down and evans is the battery and it's like going all the way as the angels take the first game of the alcs eight to one going up and they're in full voice with the bases loaded [Applause] 4-2 round as gibbon grounds it down a second and grits goes to scofield one back to first and they still can't get the double play and the second one will score and the red fox leads six to two and so this fenway thrawn collectively rising to its feet now on the verge of getting even knocked down by boggs goes to second and we are even the angels on top two to one with two out in the bottom of the seventh inning our radio announcer was saying that this is the kind of game where one swing in the bat may determine the outcome and i was just thinking to myself that wouldn't it be nice if that would be me the deep right center field and that one is out of here the angel before this uproarious run [Applause] [Music] [Applause] faces loaded two out and it's up to downing and he throws it inside and hits him to tie the game it didn't look very promising going to the bottom of the ninth inning but all of a sudden a three-run rally the game is tied and we go to the bottom of the 11th inning wrecked into left field down the line for a base hit narrator coming in and the angels go up three games [Applause] donny moore to face dave henderson that fastball that's where i'm catching up now right right and then boone knows that i i feel like i should hit that ball hard and i'm thinking that was my pitch to hit right there i'm in big trouble i miss my pitch right to left field and deep and down and goes back and it's gone unbelievable you're looking at one for the ages here anaheim stadium was a strike away from turning into fantasyland and now the red sox lead six to five one out boston ahead six to five at the bottom of the knife it's sharply by barrett for a base head evans can throw jones is coming home the throw hole is there no he's safe and we go to the 11. and it's drilled in again deep enough to score a run menace makes the catch baylor tags red sox leads 7-6 two out base is empty bottom of the 11th inning 7-6 boston hopped up here comes stapleton next plane to boston [Applause] and why not it should be henderson one game for the pennant tomorrow four nothing boston with two on and two out in the bottom of the fourth inning letters go pitch is a curve so he transforms a four nothing ball game into a seven nothing ball game the red sox are trying to go from last right to the world series and they do the houston astros take the field and mike scott goes forward to pitching mound and there's been a lot made about mike scott scuffing the ball now gary carter wants him to look at the ball i mean that thing just exploded i had never seen a pitcher that can throw a fastball and make it break in two ways whenever he wanted there has to be something doctored on the ball to do that struck him out the houston astros have defeated the new york mets broken back ray night at third this could do it and the new york mets have even the series at one and one [Applause] part of the ninth inning leonid baxter will come to the plate houston legion 5 4. hit the right bass going back going back and you watch the new york mets examine that thing they're going to look at it and look at it and look at it you know those guys can believe what they want to believe and i've been hearing this for 25 years so you're saying there was no scope well i'm saying that i've thrown balls that were scuffed but i haven't scuffed every ball that i've thrown this should do it and the houston astro win it three to one up the middle base hit actress throw no play and the mets win the ball game in 12-2-1 [Applause] after eight innings of play at the astrodome game six must win for the astros and they lead it three to nothing it's a three to one ball game it's a 3-2 ball game here comes hernandez from third he scores the game is tied 4-3 nets lead to the bottom of the 14th inning again that houston has to win high in the air toward the corner curving it is you're saying to yourself is this really happening it's like you're dreaming it but it's you're there because people are hitting you and you feel it but it was it was it was unreal the top of the 16th inning and ray night at the plate hits a base hit to right field that's going to bring strawberry home bass is throw offline and the mets have gone to the lead 5-4 three big run score going to the bottom of the 16th 7-4 met and it's 7-5 it is 7-6 now it is kevin bass's turn and i just came to mount and i said if you throw another fastball we're gonna fight and he looked at me and smiled and carter came in and i said this guy can't hit a curveball struck him out and the new york mets have won the 1986 national league tennis [Applause] you know bob watching this celebration what i see here is not just joy but relief relief because now they don't have to see mike scott in a game seven now with that behind them they not only are going to the world series now they have to win the world series after a season in which they dominated with 108 wins and of course tom they were favored as they got set to meet the red sox in the world series when we come back we'll begin our look at the fall classic we're joined now by three key participants in the 1986 world series from the red sox left-hander bruce hurst and closer calvin cheraldi and from the mets outfielder mookie wilson each lcs ended on wednesday of the week of the world series and the series began on saturday night your game six actually overlapped their game seven because it seemed to never end yeah so you each have two full days in between before the world series begins but you must still be drained from what happened in the 16 inning game in houston there's no question we had nothing left i mean after that 16 of the game we um we needed some time off i don't think that we could have played the next day you know so we were very fortunate we did play the long game and had that those couple days off we needed it very badly now your big up was game five you won games six and seven at home but it wasn't quite as exhilarating as or as exhausting as what they went through to clinch their series against houston but nonetheless i imagine you had to say to yourselves all right this is the world series and what we just went through was great but this is the biggest test of all yeah it was the biggest test of all for me um you know that was our first my first playoff experience in the world series it was just a whole new energy when we walked on the field in shea stadium the amount of media the amount of attention everything just went up you know it was it was white hot plus the boston new york thing um you know things just it was just kind of picked up and that kind of for me personally that gave me a lot of energy it felt good and mookie i thought a lot of the attention was on the fact that your mets team won 108 games to sort of validate that season that great season you had you had to close the deal in the world series did the team feel that way we did feel like we had to win it but i think that we took a little bit for granted too i think after the houston series that we felt that we just know way that we could be beaten you know and i think we were probably victim of our own success in that tournament but um we ran into little problems number time you would opposed mike witt in game five and that was on sunday so you had plenty of rest when game one of the world series rolled around on saturday night at shea right clem clemons pitched game seven for us so he was he was done and oil cam pitched game six so and i was on my full full full rest so um mcnamara gave me the ball and you know i was ready for it it was uh i was feeling good i was pitching well uh reasonably well and you know i felt felt like it was time to go and calvin for you 24 just nine saves we became the closer late in the season but you have the game seven and end of game get the last out of the alcs but now you're going up against the mets your former club is there anything there in the back of your mind about playing the new york mets i looked at it as i had a lot of friends over there i went through the minors with with a lot of the guys over there and and i was i thought i knew him pretty well knew more of their tendencies of what they could do what they would you know what they wouldn't hit what they could hit so i i thought it might have a little bit of an advantage that didn't really work out that well for me though so it's bruce hurst against ron darling in the world series opener on a saturday night at shea stadium it's a scoreless game as we go to the top of the seventh jim rice leads off with a walk he takes second on a wild pitch dwight evans is retired on the ground ball back to the mound and up comes rich gedman with vin scully at the mic here is rick edmond popped up and struck out against his old high school foe and hits a ground ball right through tuple here comes rice around third to throw by strawberry he's in there down to second goes gedman wally bachmann would have been in there had a right-hander started huffle starts against the lefty hearst and right through the wickets yeah i mean that was one of those situations tuff has been very consistent for us all year and um i think that's just one situation it was a fairly easy ball to play and i think just let the ball play him and that would usually happen when you sit back on baseballs and i remember after the game tim tuffel was at his locker a wave upon wave answering the same question every time but obviously when you get to a world series these things are magnified and that one run was magnified because of the way both darling and bruce hurst were pitching and that one nothing lead stands up to the bottom of the ninth and would you know it here comes calvin out of the bullpen he enters the game replacing bruce his first batter is daryl strawberry bottom of the ninth my thought here is is i really just don't want to walk him i don't want to give up the home run to tie it um [Music] and ended up walking him well better the wall better than walked in the home run and the next play state makes a tremendous play on this ball now it's significant that with a one-run lead in the bottom of the ninth dave stapleton is at first base for defense in place of bill buckner mcnamara made that move ray knight's going to come up and he's going to try to bunt the potential tying run to second base this is just a fantastic play i'm sitting there screaming no no i see him turning and get out of the way dummy i really didn't think he was going to go to second with that and he barely gets strawberry there's knight thinking he laid down an excellent bunt but the sacrifice doesn't work barrett covered that's a pretty gutsy decision isn't it bruce it is a gutsy decision and uh you know but stape you know escape has been a middle infielder wasn't always a first baseman he played second he played came up playing a little shortstop he played third so you know he's fairly athletic it's not uh you know it's it's not his natural position but he's a middle infielder he's he can move so now with the right-hander chirali on the mound it's backman to the plate off the bench and a little fly ball to rice and left and the red sox are one out away from taking a one-nothing lead in the series and danny heap will bat for raphael santana [Music] got him and the red sox have beaten the mets in game one one to nothing i mean that had to do wonders for your confidence not that it would have been lacking but a one-nothing game on the road world series in new york i felt pretty good after that game a lot of things happened in game five of the alcs and then this just kind of made me feel good about myself again so now game two and you forget it's a quarter century ago the anticipation leading up to this dwight gooden against roger clements goodin had been the cy young award winner in 1985 put together just a miracle of a season and clemens is the cy young award winner and the mvp a year later in 86 he goes 24-4 everybody thinks this is going to be you know some sort of kofax versus marichal or gibson type hookup doesn't quite turn out that way no this is the game you thought was going to be one to nothing and it wasn't i'm curious in these days before interleague play roger clemens what do the meds do to prepare to face the rocket who's the mvp and cy young winner that year well honestly we didn't do anything um special uh in all honesty i think we were more concerned about facing bruce than we were roger simply because of the left-handed pitcher versus right-handed pitcher and i think most teams that had had a great success against us were left-hand pitchers so after all the build up as it turned out neither gooden or clemens really had his a-game it's 3-2 red sox heading into the fourth inning and then boston really starts to get to gooden once again vin scully with the call a towering smash into left center dijkstra to the track at the wall hender hits it out and the red sox lead the mets four to two and look at that fan holding on to his head where's dwight evans who walked and struck out oh for one rice held on by hernandez fifth inning red sox four mets two and there's a drive into deep left field heap just watches this one and it's gonna go on the pavilion top on the roof and dwight goodin is not good enough tonight it is 6-2 boston in the fifth inning and oh did dewey whack that one so evan's home run on the fifth made it six to two red sox in game two eventually they win it nine to three clemons doesn't stay around long enough to get a decision but the red sox win it and take a two nothing lead in the series mookie you're down 0-2 heading for fenway uh not a good feeling you know i think that we're all shocked you know for um to come you know to get beat you know she stayed in this and i think that we kind of you know being at home you know we you know we figured you could win one ball game you know but to lose two with our two best pitchers you know i probably couldn't get away with it today but i canceled a workout in boston and gave him the day off you know i don't know how many thousands that would cost me if i did that today but i felt we needed it you know i just i felt like uh we need you just a day off what's going to be better than answering questions on how come we lost two in in our park mookie we all thought that you would have to have a workout go in take some balls off the wall familiarize yourself with fenway park now the mets did play a charity game yes in the second half of the season but this is the world series yeah were you surprised davey said guys don't show up take the day off very it turned out being the right decision sometimes you have to save players from themselves and i think as david said if we come to the ballpark it's all kind of questions how can you guys lose you know two ball games you're here now you're down two nothing you won 100 some ball games you did you know invincible mess and we got to go to all that and it was stuff and we weren't uh i think reality sat in that if we wanted it we was going to have to play for it and um i mean that's what naturally east was used to us the red sox didn't care you know and then they showed it of course you had one guy who was very familiar with fenway park and he was the key guy your starter for game three the former red sox left-hander bob ohita and before he ever took the mound lenny dykstra got him off to a terrific start and changed the momentum of the series a little bit leading off game three against oil can boyd and again the call of vin scully and here we go high drive down the right field line hooking in the corner if it's fair it's gone it's gone [Applause] lenny dykstra takes oil can deep and the mets lead one to nothing of all the hits that may have been the biggest hit ever because we needed something to kind of you know get us back on track get our confidence going because uh for the first time for the first time in the whole season i think we felt a little bit you know unsure of ourselves wow now that's saying something about a team known for its confidence yeah we were we were confidences put the kind you know we were very arrogant we were really really sure about ourselves and but we needed that because i think losing two games at home on our best picture getting pounded the way it happened losing a very close ball game um down to nothing we needed something to say hey you know you guys you still can do this um you know it's it's no question that was probably the biggest hit of the series that hit along right they got us back on track well bob ohita had it going on and the mets win game three seven to one so they're back in the series and that brings us to game four now ron darling is going to come back he's going to pitch 1-4 and as it turns out seven john mcnamara does an interesting thing he figures that you may need an extra day's rest and he maybe has a game to play with he's up two games to one he's going to go to his number four starter al nipper in game four yeah there was a lot of talk back and forth i remember about whether i was going to get the ball or not and but i think mac made the decision pretty early i i knew that i was going to get game five and so it was no surprise for me and you know nip was a kind of guy that uh you know was pretty crafty he had a lot of pitches and you know if he's on he could be pretty tough he can he can keep you in the game for a while well nipper did not pitch badly but now it's the top of the seventh and the mats behind darling are leading three nothing at this point nipper is out of the game and steve crawford has come in he faces lenny dykstra with two outs and mookie on second after reaching with a single and then stealing second high fly ball into pretty deep right field back goes evans on the track at the wall leaps he can't get it home run for dykstra and what a picture evans paints in right field lucky what was your view of that play [Laughter] yeah i i thought he was going to catch it to be honest with you i thought he was going to catch it but um that's there again that's a sign of things turning calvin you probably had a real good look at this huh yeah staring right at it he made the jump and it's like he was stuck for some reason he said he right there his knee wouldn't let him go any higher and all he needed was another inch and dwight evans made so many great plays with his glove and with his arm through the years in right field and that one just off the webbing of the glove it's five to nothing the mets go on to win the game six to two it's tied 2-2 and now you've got the ball and you've got to write your team and reassert control of the series in game five um yeah i mean i i you know it was two two we knew the mets weren't just going to roll over and um you know i just want to go out exactly kind of what we did in game five uh in the in the alcs you know i knew i was going up against a great pitcher and i knew that i couldn't probably give up very much and i just want to see if i could go pitch for pitch with him keep us in the game and you know we we've been swinging about pretty well and and see what happens that's that was my my thinking and i was rested i felt i felt good so it's bruce hurst against white gooden in game five and as it turns out bruce goes the distance he strikes out ten he allows two runs the red sox win four to two they're back in front in the series three games to two with bob ojeda set to start game six against roger clemens oh your confidence has to be soaring here one win away from the world series championship and you're giving the ball to mr cy young himself roger clements i mean you don't want to assume anything bruce but in terms of being where you want to be this is it well that's the guy you want i mean if if everything's lined up and you want to have one guy on your team that's going to pitch to win the world series it'd be roger and calvin as a closer now with one win away do you begin to start thinking about being in position to get the last out of the world series i wasn't really thinking about it because with roger on the mound we were hoping that he was going to just take us the whole way i mean he did that i mean i've been with him since college and he did it in college and my thought is he's going to do it again tonight yeah you had been his texas teammate yeah and you know we kind of took care of business at texas and just figured that he was going to do the same thing here took a pay cut to play pro ball but that's good easy easy bruce busting out his banquet material coming up next game six of the 86 world series your dreams are that you're gonna have a great series and win and uh the nightmares are that you're gonna let the winning run uh score on a ground ball through your legs so you know those uh those things happen you know and just uh i i think a lot of it is just fate that's almost too eerie isn't it less than three weeks before this night october 6th game six in 86 was october 25th uh it's coming for me honestly that's a little hard to listen to you know it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy to a group to a degree you know and um buck you know he's fallen on the sword up for our team unfortunately and uh you know we all play had a hand in in our loss but you know i always say without him we don't get there okay let's pick up game six in the top of the seventh both bob ojeda and roger clemens have pitched well but now roger mcdowell is on in relief for the mets the game is tied at two and mcdowell allows a lead-off walk to marty barrett after bill buckner grounds out barrett is at second and jim rice is at the plate one ball one strike roller to third knight charging high throw off hernandez glove and over to third goes barrett a routine play gets away by ray knight here's dewey evans the count goes full here's a key play by john mcnamara two to start the runner on first base which wasn't something we did very often either they wind up getting the out at first but rice is safe at second no hit and run double play out of the inning instead 3-2 red sox yeah i mean you have to look that play um just shortstop sand elstra at the time throwing the first base getting the guy at first was big red sox playing little ball that's something we didn't do very well didn't do very often but we had it in us all right so now clements has a one-run lead he's thrown 117 pitchers through six innings but keep in mind this is a different era roger clemens had lots of games where he threw 130 140 even sometimes more than 150 pitches and he hadn't thrown that many in game four because he came out after four and a third bottom of the seventh ray knight looking to atone for the error that led to the red sox run on the top half hits it hard to right field but he's retired one out dwight evans with the catch clem was doing great that night i mean he was rested he was so hard i thought he's kind of vintage roger here you are mookie yeah rogers we didn't want to get this deep in the game you know that's the one thing we did not want you know we figured we could get to him like we did last time and get into the bullpen a little sauna but that didn't work out as well one thing you did well though you fouled off a ton of pitches the mets did in this game roger ends the sitting with 134 pitches 44 of those were foul balls by the mets so he threw 17 pitches in this bottom of the 7th which is going to end here with kevin ellster who has come off the bench and is playing shortstop at this point flying out to dave henderson in center it's a one two three inning for clemens who comes walking off here without any apparent signs of duress but something's brewing something's brewing but you know you talk about the 17 pitches in that inning but all of them out of the wind up it wasn't a stressful inning for him at all he seems like he's in command of the game at this point what did you guys think i thought he was i mean i thought it was like like cal was saying i just thought it was you know here we go we got we're gonna jump on rogers back and sail it on in and you know to me sitting on the bench it looked like like i said vintage roger he was he had all systems go and and was just was on it just kind of marching to the finish line now calvin if this was any time within the last you know decade or so you would have been up even though it's the ace roger clemens he's thrown seven innings you wouldn't necessarily be in the game but you'd be up and getting ready by this point what were you doing that night after seven innings watching the game enjoying watching watching roger pitch and and i mean i'm thinking to myself yeah i might get in but there's been no especially with that inning right there they're not going to pull him and i don't blame him so it's just like i'm just enjoying the game well here is john mcnamara's account of what clemons said as he came off the mound at k stadium and into the dugout after the seventh inning he came off the mound in the bottom of the inning and [Music] we were waiting there at the steps to congratulate him you know getting out of the seventh and [Music] he came down the steps and he said that's all i can pitch quote unquote and my answer to him was you got to be me and he said no and he showed us his finger middle finger of the right hand where he had the start of a paper tear on his middle finger and we'll correct this right here and now he had no blister whatsoever and how that got started i don't know but it got spread rapidly and it continued over the next two years about the blister took him out of the ball game and that is not the case as sure as i'm sitting here all right we are into a little bit of he said he said situation here because last week i spoke with clemens and here's what he had to say about what happened after the seventh inning roger clemens i think i was getting ready to hit and if i'm not mistaken mcnamara pinched it mike greenwell for me so uh again i don't know why he would say something like that if it was to deflect attention from the game my recollection is i was at the bat rack put my my gloves on or get my bat my helmet or whatever and getting ready to go hit i think i only given up four hits so uh i you know i've pitched a hundred pitch games i pitched 150 pitch games i think i threw 164 pitch game at some point in my career so i don't know where that came from so no question in your mind you expressed clearly that even though yeah you had a little problem with your finger you could continue and you wanted to continue and you expected to continue yeah i mean again a little problem with my finger you know if they're saying they didn't see anything with my finger i mean there was blood on the baseballs and and crazy things like that but it wasn't going to affect me to continue all right we still have more reaction from john mcnamara as well as some thoughts from bill fisher the pitching coach and charlie moss the red sox trainer but guys as you hear the first couple of comments from your manager and your pitching ace what do you think i think i really don't want to get in the middle of this if you want to know the truth um all i know is uh what i knew of roger clements and um roger um he was the guy that that went nine and it was uh to win the world series he had i know in his mind i would if i had to put words in his mouth at that time i'd probably think he's thinking i've got a winner to rest and he's going to throw it all out there that's just that's the roger i knew i was a teammate that i you know grew to love and and you know really respect and and lifted me to be a better pitcher now roger was scheduled to hit third in that eighth inning henderson led off with a hit and spike owen bunted him to second base so at that point if mcnamara calls for the bunt you know he's intending to hit for clements now whether that was a strategic move to try to get an insurance run or whether he just felt that in his mind clemens had told him he was done either way he was yanking clemons yeah i agree i don't think you're going to bunt with your eighth hitter if you think your pitcher is staying in the game so clearly a decision was made prior to spike going getting up to the plate i'm just curious whether you heard anything the course of the game bruce about any finger issues or any sort of physical ailment that may have compromised roger at all during the game nothing that i can remember i mean i was kind of like cal i mean i was sitting to the end of the end of the dugout and and uh you know i had my soft shoes on and i'm just watching clem do his thing so calvin when did they tell you to get up are you are you throwing now as your team is batting in the top of the eighth i'm pretty sure i'm throwing right now i don't know remember exactly when i started but i'm pretty sure i'm throwing right now i'm thinking that uh that they they made a decision when when they got on that roger was out and they were going to pinch it now roger has said through the years and he reiterated to me in that interview last week that what he said was i've got a problem here with my finger and it's keeping me from throwing the slider but i haven't thrown that many sliders anyway and i can continue and more or less rely on my fastball but here is mcnamara's response to roger claiming that he could still stay in the game and pitch well that is not the that is not accurate that is not the truth and uh i don't lie and when he uh those were they're indelibly imprinted in my mind what he said it's pretty powerful stuff guys i mean i'm not sure that john mcnamara has gone on camera in 25 years and certainly been as definitive as he was in these statements you know john mcnamara you played for him what do you make of the statements um i'm honest i i'm you know this is painful for me you know and we're trying to win a world series and you know we we lost a tough tough series you can't you can't lose a world series and come as close to winning as we did and um you know i have to still fight these battles and this stuff 25 years later is is it gnaws at me you know it's somewhere along the line we've got to put it to rest and and i don't i don't know but i it's it bothers me personally so well i doubt we're going to put it to rest tonight but let's finish with what we've got here charlie moss the trainer told us that he took a look and he saw something on clement's finger but as he put it it was nothing of great consequence now bill fisher the pitching coach who by all accounts was closer to clemens than mcnamara the manager was said he leaned in on the conversation but then walked away while mcnamara and clemens were still talking he continued on by telling us mac turned to me and he said get chiraldi ready what we're left with here is as i said he said he said with two key figures in one of the great games in history um and i i mean i'm gonna lighten it up here a little bit i can't see clemens giving up in the bat personally i mean exactly those things are precious when you're an american you know i'm gonna go another step because clemens also told me that when the scheduled game seven on sunday night was rained out and pushed a monday that he told mack that he could work out of the bullpen on monday night he had his spikes on he was in the bullpen he was in the bullpen yeah and for the game so i mean i played with roger at texas and and then again with the red sox and and i have never known him to come out of a game willingly why do you think mcnamara would not have called upon him after you were out of the game 3-3 in game seven if clemons could give you an inning or two why not go to him um i'll be honest that conversation was had after game seven clem came in and said i was ready to go and um i don't know i don't know what happened i know what happened that relationship i don't know what happened that end of the dugout but obviously something happened and um it it it severed a relationship so here's keith hernandez with his thoughts from the other side on what roger clemens might have done that night with that bullpen they had which was their even obvious achilles heel clemens had to suck it up and go nine at least try to go nine and let us knock him out if he has to leave the game well keith is pretty blunt what do you think again pitch count we weren't counting pitches we knew we weren't touching clements he was pretty much doing what he want you know uh against us uh it was surprising when we saw he was on the ball game it really really did shock us because we thought you know this guy's just going to moist down for the next three innings the next two angst so um we don't know i all this is new we didn't get all this about someone's fingers hurt and didn't want to come out of the game this all this is afterthought does we didn't hear all about this but we were concerned about just trying to you know score runs and yes we want to get clemons out the game early we really did but we didn't think it was coming out the roger goes seven innings and goes out winning 3-2 well perhaps unexpectedly he is out as we go to the bottom of the eighth and calvin cheraldi comes out of the bullpen and the first man he faces is lee mazzilli pinch-hitting for jesse orozco my thoughts here again not not to walk anybody get ahead and see what happens i mean we knew we could hit a fastball but that's what i throw and and so i'm just trying to get ahead big pinch hit from mazzilli leading off the bottom of the eighth now a lot of interesting things are happening here davey johnson could have double switched and didn't and mookie that would have taken you out of the game he didn't do it he lost jessie orozco lost jesse orozco with a single pitch orozco got buckner out to end the inning but now he's out of the game calvin you make the play at second but it doesn't work on the bunt that was an attempted play i just uh didn't gather myself i threw from down from down low i tell my pitchers to always throw up top and i throw it sidearm and make a terrible throw so dykstra with the attempted sacrifice and it turns out better than that the mets have first and second and nobody out the discussion here is what i have no clue i have no idea i'm thinking you got third base line but uh well you have to think of bunt plays again in order here with a guy like backman first and second yeah he was very very very good at planning he made he could blunt you know either direction he really bases out many a days with his butt so after keith hernandez intentional walk gary carter is at the plate bachmann with a successful sacrifice base hit could give the mets the lead sac fly could tie it again the count went to 3-0 and he's hacking on 3-0 here and that's the thing i'm actually thankful for that in the sense i mean yeah you give up one but you've got your second out and and and you're still in the game the lead run is not scored yet you've given up you've given up a one-run lead but there could have been a lot more could have gotten a lot worse i agree i'll take i'll take the out for the for the run right there yeah absolutely shania here's strawberry game tied at three in the bottom of the eighth i only remember what happens that refresh your memory that refreshes my memory thank you i think about at this point we're still i mean it's a three to three game we haven't we haven't gained anything we lost our lead but um we're still feeling good about ourselves and and we're not down so you know there's always a chance the score is tied 3-3 but some things have happened or not happen that will have a significant effect coming up shortly as we talked about when you were here with bill buckner when we focused on game six in the 20 greatest games series when jesse orozco came in and retired bill buckner through one pitch you had made the last out in the preceding inning and so he could have double switched and kept his best reliever in the game and you would have been out and the whole thing i mean they could have pinched it for buckner right baylor could have hit for buckner you could have been double switched out and the two primary actors in one of baseball's great dramas would have been removed as it happened after strawberry flied out there he was double switched out of the game yeah and that did not endear him to davey johnson no i'm not sure if you were aware of that at the time mookie not at the time after the game he made his thoughts well known well straw has been known for speaking his mind now we didn't know i i wasn't aware that star was going to be out of the game you know i'm looking and looking okay somebody's missing and it's straw is gone and it did come across everyone's mind well why did it take me out you know and that's still a puzzle well this much we know for sure each team failed the score in the ninth we go to extra innings it's rick aguilera now out of the met bullpen it's his second inning of work it's the top half of the 10th dave henderson who seems to be in the middle of everything is at the plate and again vin scully with a call on nbc and a drive to left going back on it is mookie wilson and this one is gone henderson has done it again at this point in the game right here i'm out of the game they've told me i'm out of the game because i'm i'm do up to hit and and then dave does that and i'm already sitting down relaxed and now i've got to find a bat and find a helmet to put on to go up and look stupid swing so your spot is coming up when in this inning after henry after so mentally you've basically shut systems down yes you're out of the game i'm out of the game but now but now i'm back now it's a home run now i got to scramble to find a helmet and find a bat and as it happens boggs delivers a double you don't do anything at the bite no no surprise but boggs delivers a double and barrett who simply refuses to be retired in october gets a base hit and you've got an insurance run you're up five to three i'm going to go back to what calvin said i thought that was very interesting it doesn't sound and correct me if i'm wrong calvin that it was not presented to you conditionally that if this happens you're in or if this happened you're done i mean we're not expecting dave to go up and hit the home run the first pitch hopefully he gets on spike bumps him over or whatever so um yeah things change when he hits the home run and now i've got to try to refocus and obviously didn't do a very good job of it so that did have an effect huh i'm guessing that had an effect i mean i get the first two guys out and then then i make a couple bad pitches all right let's take a look the red sox are three outs away from their first world series victory since 1918. calvin in his third inning of work faces wally bachmann leading off in the new york tenth think about these two balls right here it's like it's not like they're uh not hitting very hard they're pretty well scalded he pokes this one to left yeah and rice comes over to take it by the way looking at you on the mound less hair on top whole lot more on the chin now as opposed to then now here's keith yeah this ball's hit just happens to be a big big ballpark henderson tracks it down two outs now hernandez noted to us that he picked up on the fact that after being removed from the game clemens shaved he had some growth through his seven inches of work and now here he is on the bench clean shaven when i mentioned that to roger roger said you know he's right that's true i did shave in anticipation of the celebration but wasn't keith up to some stuff of his own because keith had cheerfully admitted in fact i interviewed him on nbc immediately after the game he's pouring champagne on everybody's head and he admitted that after he made that second out on the long flight to center field he went back into the met clubhouse thought the game was over and down two budweisers and then when the mets began to rally superstition he couldn't leave his seat yeah now suppose the game had remained tied he would have gone out for the 11th with a buzz going he probably would he's very superstitious keith is oh he might not have left that seat so roger so roger says to me hey granted i shaved yeah but who's keith to be talking that was it happened it was in the office of davey johnson yeah and that's why you'll see when the game ends if you look for keith hernandez don't bother you won't find him i gotta ask you calvin though when as an athlete you try obviously just stay in the moment don't think big picture what are your thoughts there knowing you're only one out away from winning the world series i'm thinking i'm thinking the game's over and and instead of instead of thinking that who's up next and what do i got to do to get him out because i'm i'm i'm feeling pretty good about it and and then it just kind of i make a bad pitch to kevin i fall behind gary and make a bad pitch to kevin because i'd already i mean that's already been said too that i played with kevin in the minor leagues hold on let's catch up with that two outs nobody on and as calvin said gary carter for the moment is the mets last hope and their dugout doesn't look like it has much hope i fall behind gary 2-0 and just i figured i can just sew it in there and hopefully he gets himself out and he didn't okay so here comes mitchell with whom you had played in the minor leagues and he feels like he knows what's coming he he feels like he knows what's coming because i'm going to throw it to him because i've watched him for two years and could not hit a slider and i told him i'm going to get you out with a slider and he hits a rock at the center field hanging slider right there he's waiting on it so is your heart thumping a little bit now yeah i'm i'm i'm a little a little racy right now you still we have to feel good yeah i still feel good this is o2 right here and this is one of those where i'm trying to throw the ball up i'm trying to throw a high fast ball and and i get it in but not in enough you just kind of fist it not hit well yeah puts it in over barrett and now they're within one here comes carter and it's five to four it's too good of an 0.2 pitch to throw right there and it catches way too much of the plate so the mets were down to their last strike and knight fought it off the tying run is now at second base the potential winning run is at first and mcnamara surveys the situation and he's going to decide that you've had enough and he's going to call for the guy you had replaced not that long ago as the closer bob stanley well he came in for brought bob in because i think he faced mookie in game four or five before and he got a ground ball out or something like that and and and that was a good i think mack thought that was a good match up for uh first teamer to come in kelvin when you see the picture walking off the mound there what emotions does that bring back obviously disappointment but what do you feel you know going back 25 years i'm i'm disappointed in the results of what happened in this game and and and the results of what happened in the series but i've had a lot of people ask me would you change it and i said my thought is i wouldn't change a thing because what happens here has has made me the person that i am and i don't think i would i know i wouldn't change the person that i am right now if it could change the results of this you know because i like who i am right now st michael's crusaders you're the baseball coach at that school in austin texas and have been for a long time and you told us you don't think many of your young players are really that familiar with your career if they see this show it's going to be an eye opener for them it'll be an eye opener but you know some of the things that i've said will point out to the things that i'm trying to teach them about like o2 pitch on why you don't do it because a bad o2 pitch cost us the world series i that's some of the things i preach i mean i've learned i learned a lot from what happened here and like i said i wouldn't i wouldn't change it because of what the person that it's made me admit two runs down two two strikes and two outs you know but you it ain't over yet calvin giraldi couldn't do it and it's up to bob stanley and it's up to moogie wilson so now bob stanley comes in rookie and as he's taking his warm-ups what are you thinking i'm thinking i wish calvin had stayed in ball game you know well you know for just like i think kevin said earlier that he was somewhat familiar with us and he had great success um and we were familiar with him because he was with us a while even though he had pretty much done pretty well against us we still felt comfortable you know hitting off him um i wasn't as familiar with stanley you know i'm just you know not familiar and i've never been one for taking pictures this you know looking a guy oh that just wasn't my game you know so um i was a little disappointed i didn't get a chance to hit off calvin you know and i thought he probably stayed in because he had been there closer it had done a phenomenal job so when stanley was coming in i was a little concerned because now i just have to back up and just regroup there are two pitches in this at-bat that are pretty much set in everybody's memory but what people may not recall is what a long and battling at-bat it was foul ball after foul ball and in fact as we pick it up now it's the eighth pitch of the at-bat stanley against wilson but the first thing we had to understand is that the magnitude of this ball game um we had two three guys just went out there with two strikes and put the ball in play i was not going to let the ball get by rich gedman did yes and here comes mitchell to tie it as knight goes to second now 25 years later there are still people who say though it was scored a wild pitch that getty could have stopped it what do you think calvin i'm glad wow well the thing about that is is is look like getty set up to the outside and the ball comes inside and if you're if you're if you're hoping that it's going outside and he throws it in this far and it looked like it kind of cut in which his ball usually didn't cut in but it looked like it moved that away that's that's that's that's a tough one that's a tough one to get a hold of now you can no longer make the last out of the game now you're looking to win it not just survive well that was the beauty of the whole thing i was up there we were down the run i'm still up there and now the score is tied there's only one way i can go and that's up you know i can't lose the ball game and i was it really relaxed me a lot um it allowed me you know a little more freedom to build a looser and swinging at some pitches and i probably if i'm a little tired i'll probably miss most of those pitches by the way we saw kevin mitchell get that hit and score that tying run there legend has it that he had been back in the clubhouse legend has it truth yeah you could put on the hot seat he was back in the clubhouse taking his uniform off figuring world series is over well if you look at the attitude of that dugout you know you know people can talk about how confident we were but i think pitcher says it all that dugout was done i mean we didn't think there was any way that we were gonna come particularly after the two outs um david was sitting there looking you know he was lost um i'm sitting two people down from him i had both hands on the bench and said what have we just done and um you know yet the hits kind of picked us up again but we were we're pretty much out of it well now the mets are very much in it the game is tied ray knight is at second base mookie's still at the plate against bob stanley and not incidentally bill buckner is at first base in every postseason victory the red sox had had to that point against the angels when they won in seven games and in their previous three victories in this world series against the mets every one of them dave stapleton had ended the game as a defensive replacement on the field in place of bill buckner but not on this night not in the bottom of the 10th of game six of the world series we asked john mcnamara about his decision to leave billy buck in the game the case is that buckner was the best first baseman i had and dave stableton has taken enough shots at me since that that he didn't get in that ball game but dave henders i mean dave stapleton's nickname was shaky and you know what that implies and no i didn't want him playing first base to end that game and it was not any sentimental thing that i had for billy buck to leave him out there he was the best first baseman i had i'm curious to your reactions there as you hear this i mean as you mentioned stapleton is on the field for each red sox victory throughout this postseason he played 39 games during the season 23 of those he came in as a defensive first baseman in the eighth or ninth innings there seems to be a pattern that doesn't hold true for game six when you hear john mcnamara's explanation what do you think man why am i getting these questions what do i think i think that he made a heck of a play in game one to save that they've saved that victory and i'll be honest i've never heard dave stapleton called shaky so that's that's that's the news flash for me so i like stape i was a heck of a player and he added to our team he came ready to play every day and um you know he didn't get a lot of opportunities that year but you know he did what he was asked to do so you know i never heard that before and i i hate getting the middle of these things we've got too many of this in and out of this world series you know what even if john says now that sentiment had nothing to do with it you couldn't blame a guy for wanting to reward bill buckner in fact you might think well of him for wanting to reward bill buckner because he wasn't just a good player he was in an athletic sense a noble player the way he had carried himself his whole career and throughout that postseason hobbling around and he wanted him to be on the field maybe to really feel it when it finally happened i mean that's that's noble but that's not what you do in a world series uh for me i mean you make the decisions you've been making all year long and you do you go with what's going to win the for the team and we love buck and like i said earlier we don't go the world series without him and you know what he did it was you know our respect for him is immense but um those are the decisions i think you don't make to win a world championship for a team and uh but if that's a decision he felt that way and and you know then then go with it but um you know i'd never heard stape called shaky before and you know that's news to me all right bill buckner was here along with mookie wilson a few months ago as part of our 20 greatest games countdown and they watched as we replayed that fateful moment let's take a look little roller up along first behind the back it gets through buckner here comes knight and the mix win that did happen huh it did mookie would you have beaten him to the bag if he stops it obviously knight has to stop at third but would you have beaten him to the bag uh i thought my chances were pretty good i thought that i could beat the pitcher there so i thought it would be a foot ripper to me and billy buck stanley was a little slow off the mound so it was a question of whether he could have gotten there in time and certainly hobbled as he was and as fast as you were running for the left side of the box questionable whether billy could have beaten you to the bag had he fielded it yeah i mean that's another topic that we talked about and um i've looked at that played hundreds of times trying to figure out because i tried to answer it you know defensively and there's no way you can really tell whether i would beat him to the bank or not calvin obviously you started this inning where are you watching at this point and describe what you saw i'm in the dugout and and um i don't really remember what happened because i think my head was down the entire time hoping that uh that that bobby would get to get us out of it and so i don't think i saw any of it until probably that night on on replay bruce i was in the dugout i mean i was um you know we were all kind of a little bit in shock it's like all of a sudden you know we're one out away one strike away and and uh feeling pretty good and next thing you know i mean literally it seems like in a flash you know but you know when we went to dugout after the club the clubhouse after that i mean you have to remember we knew how the angels felt now that was kind of our our mantra you know they we kind of stole one from them in game five you know where they they were a strike away and um you know so that was it wasn't the end of the world for us we lost the game and a chance to win the world series but we still had another game so well here's what bill buchner and john mcnamara told us about what happened on that play my last thought catching ground balls watch the ball into your glove and but for you know for years i couldn't figure out how i missed that ball and and if you go back and you and you look you know and i was being so careful i i planted my left foot to stop you know to make sure i watched the ball and that glove my momentum when i planted my foot that glove kind of closed up and the ball you know normally if you look up and don't watch the ball you're gonna you know the ball goes underneath you're gonna look up well this ball went over here to the right side you know pocket high but to the right side that glove when i planted my hand that glove just closed automatically the ball went right by there should have threw that glove away the year before i would take the blame the full blame if the ball was [ __ ] to buck's left i mean her is right and he couldn't get to the ball because of his ankles but he got to the ball got in front of it just went through his legs what was the clubhouse like immediately after i mean you expressed the idea which was perfectly rational that you still got another shot another ball game to win the series is only tied but in the immediate aftermath had to be stunned right yeah we're stunned it was pretty quiet or a couple of gloves thrown in their locker i mean it was a fairly typical reaction and rightfully so but once we had a chance to think about it you know we kind of caught our breath you know we realized we we still had life so it wasn't over it wasn't it wasn't the death how about how about for you calvin because we hear a lot about closers needing very short memories that one actually had to be extremely hard it was hard but it's it's something that you have to do i mean uh this was my first year closing but um i'd learned at least i thought i'd learn to to be able to put it behind me i mean i'd blown a couple games earlier in the year and and and learned from it uh did the same thing in in game four of the alcs came back in game five and and pitched well so um it's let's move on to the next game and see what happens how crazy was your clubhouse mookie uh it was it was crazy i i don't know if we're crazy because we had just come back i come from behind victory or we're just kind of still in amazement as to what happened you know and how it happened i think it's a little bit of both and but but we're feeling good i mean we knew that we were we had our magic back you know and that team it was really we stole one and we stole one and we just guys were battled not giving up and putting the ball in play and um hey it was a great feeling that clubhouse it really was were you aware bruce that you had been voted when it looked like um the series was going to end with the red sox winning it in that 10th inning you had already been voted the world series mvp i found out afterwards somebody mentioned it to me people at home or whatever so i guess i'm the shortest mvp in history five seconds and almost subliminally for less than a second somebody pushed the wrong button and it said on the scoreboard sometime in that bottom of the 10th inning when it looked like the mets were cooked congratulations world champion red sox i saw that too i like the way it looked honestly it looked good to me we alluded to this earlier but let's let him tell the tale where was keith hernandez after his at-bat in the bottom of the 10th when he made the second out i went up into the clubhouse i remember and i just went run up the tunnel and my reasoning was i didn't want to see boston celebrating on our field and then all of a sudden we're watching on tv and all this stuff that starts happening i didn't get out of that chair baseball players are very superstitious i did not go back on the field for the celebration home plate because i did not feel that i deserved to be there and i waited for the team to come up the tunnel and greeted them there that was an incredible comeback and i was not going to have to have to look at boston jumping up and down our on our infield the momentum shifted in in winning in game six it was over if we could do what we did coming from one strike away from two runs down two hours and coming back and winning the ball game nothing no circumstance could be more dire than that coming into games well with reverberations from game six being felt all around new york still and for that matter all around new england maybe the red sox catch a break because it rains the next night and game seven is postponed from sunday to monday night and at some point john mcnamara comes to you and says you got enough rest you pitch game five but you can go on three days rest and pitch game seven right uh sunday night is after the game had been called sometime uh before we went to bed i was actually talking to my wife about this the other night and we went out to dinner and we kind of had a suspicion that was a possibility so we went out to dinner and we didn't walk around the city we just went right back just in case the phone call did come then i could get my rest and get into my routine and matt called and told me and so i started my my pre-game routine getting ready to go how well did you sleep i slept all right actually i mean i was um once i got well game one was the one for me once i got a mound everything clicked for me it just all of a sudden seemed normal once the media cleared off the field and all the energy of that it just became pretty comfortable for me so i wasn't overwhelmed i mean it's what you grow up is throwing the ball against the wall as a kid it's game seven you're always pitching and here's my chance so i was having some fun bruce had pitched brilliantly in the world series to that point but you figure he still has oil can boyd to come out of the bullpen but as it turns out no because oil can did not take the news especially well and drowned his sorrows in a way that rendered him incapable of performing in game seven here's mcnamara on that story goes he was he he had some alcohol before game seven and you didn't think he was in no position to go out there and take the ball well you said it i didn't but that's the exact reason well he more or less confirms it and here's what bill fisher the pitching coach said we don't have him on tape but here is his quote i came to the park and al nipper one of the red sox pitchers he had started game four came up to me and said you should check on your long man that would be boyd he was boxed up under the weather from drinking so we locked him in a room recall any of this cal bruce cal i don't remember a thing i don't either i had my i was ready to pitch i mean i couldn't worry about that stuff that's you know that was a distraction for me i i was in my i was doing my thing i was getting ready to do what i had to do so i don't remember but you know if strategically tom if roger clemens was available for an inning or two as he to this day says that he was and if oil can boyd had been prepared to pitch then game seven might have played out differently there's no question i mean you're talking about two valuable arms we think of game seven as an all hands on deck game starting pitcher or leaf pitcher doesn't matter everybody's in the bullpen spikes on we've heard calvin say that roger was there ready to go not called upon for whatever reason and now we hear about oil cam boyd not called upon for a reason that john mcnamara is spelled out ron darling is your opponent he pitched games one four and seven for the mets and let's pick up the game game seven now in the second inning dwight evans is leading off for the red sox facing darling high drive into deep left center field that one might go all the way it is gone home run dwight evans [Applause] and that's a drive into right center field strawberry going back to the wall at the wall leaps in the air one hands it no he missed it the right hand of dale ford started up and then circled to indicate home run and strawberry coming with an inch it's gone and the sox lead two to nothing so back to back homers make it two to nothing it wasn't that darling was doing that badly but you can't afford to wait in game seven and pretty soon thereafter davey went to the bullpen for sid fernandez unheralded performance a lot like mike messina in game seven in 2003 when ironically enough roger clemens then a yankee didn't quite have it and messina held the fort until the yankees could come back against pedro martinez sid fernandez came in and kept it close for you guys well sid is a very underrated pitcher i think he had been all year big left hand a big left-hander and i think that gave um boston a little bit different look from what we had been bringing normally within that you know situation so um i thought it was a good move on by david at the time maybe a gutsy move maybe going for more um you know a polished person consid you know his control was sometimes on could be on on rocky rocky ground and but when he's throwing strikes he was tough and he was tough that night early in that ball game if you go back we had runners on base with our big hitters up there and we could not get a base hit to lengthen our lead to game seven of the world series bottom of the sixth now one out and up steps lee misselli pinch hitting for sid fernandez and facing bruce hurst first by the way is on a roll now he has retired 11 in a row change up yeah another big pinch hit for him he was a key guy in this world series he got a lot of big hits but that's what he does that's what he did he's done it for us all year and here you are mookie yeah this is what you don't know what this guy's going to do you couldn't hit a ground ball don't play for me could you another change up and you notice we pulled both of them yeah you know you know what was funny about this whole stage but even though we were down we were we were still feeling pretty good you know it's not like we were down in the first two ball games where we were a little on a little shaken but we weren't shaken by this right well now you lose tuffle there's mcnamara conferring with fisher the pitching coach the bases are loaded and here's hernandez this is the one pitch that i want back in the world series it was it was the one time um where i got between with richie on what i wanted to do it ended up being a 3-1 pitch if i remember right and um went to a fastball got it up and hit it for a double and i kind of had in my mind i want to throw something soft at him because i know he's a really good fastball hitter is there anything you recall about this conversation here bruce obviously he wants you in to stay left on left on hernandez with crawford in the bullpen i think that's what the conversation was you know i think he was out there kind of giving me a blow kind of you know pumping up a little bit telling me everything's all right and uh you know i'm just one pitch away from getting out of this he likes to match up and uh you know just go out and make a pitch here you know see if i can get you know kind of right the ship here keith hernandez had had a key hit in the seventh game of the 82 world series for the cardinals when they were down against the brewers also against the left-hander and he does it again high fastball looked like he hit it almost off his shoulder it was up yeah and uh you know just a pitch i was in between and i had had a change up on my mind it's a you know yeah up and right down the middle neither of them or keith is one of the opposite usually with the left hand yes yeah he's a high ball header where most left-handers are low ball hitters right he's a very good ball very good with the ball so one pitch you score missouli scores ahead of you tougher the third suddenly now it's three to two and here's keith hernandez with an explanation of that at bat a book on me was always inside i knew that and um he threw me a big hook the first a bad nasty one i took it and uh i just choked up an extra inch on the back because all was needed was a base a sacrifice fly wasn't good enough all right so that makes the score three to two and the next batter is gary carter hit in the air to right field here comes evans it's gonna be hernandez is tagged out by spike owen evans making a diving smothering attempt and we had to wait till dale ford indicated catch and then no catch and that's why hernandez is hollering why didn't you call it the ball he can't tell where the ball is so it's just one of those things that happens so your lead is gone red sox get out of the inning 3-3 but now it's a whole different situation yeah it's a whole new game and uh um you know i i i think i remember telling mack he asked me how i felt and i felt like that the part of the order was coming up i felt like i could get out and i felt like i could could go on but you know i was starting to tire um siever was on our team and siever told me afterwards you know he said you're starting to elevate the ball is a good choice so you know i you know the feeling you have you have to feel like you're going to get you know get out you don't want to come out of the game and um but you know it was it was a it was a decision that you know probably had to be made i was starting to elevate siever was on the team but not eligible to play in uniform in the dugout but on the disabled list and should be known that he for me personally the world series with tom seaver was made the experience phenomenal for me it was like the university of siever every day he had little uh one or two you know thoughts that he'd always ingrain in my mind between endings he'd just make sure i stayed on point didn't get too distracted and it was really really valuable for me and you know between starts and watching other games i'd sit by him and pick his brain and listen to little things and i you know it was it made the experience even better for me personally well we saw steve crawford in the bullpen briefly earlier but now with bruce out of the game and the score still tied after the red sox don't score in the top of the seventh to the bottom half we've explained why oil can boyd is not available roger clemens is not going to be called upon for an inning or two here back to you calvin 3-3 game what are you thinking it's only 48 hours since things kind of fell apart in game six what are you thinking now well i'm thinking i'm feeling all right just because i've had the extra day uh with three innings a night before whatever it was i'm feeling pretty good until this pitch right here got it high high fastball and not anywhere close to where getty was setting up looked like a little bit of a shake on the pitch selection right before that that's the the shakeoff sign just automatic shake off i only had two pitches so i wasn't gonna throw a curveball and getty wasn't gonna call it so we know that wasn't happening it was a or b so knight who had scored the winning run in the crazy game six two nights before homer's as the leadoff man on the bottom of the seventh that makes it four to three the mets tack on two more and they lead six to three but if the red sox were going to roll over and die it wasn't going to happen just yet we're going to go to the top half of the eighth inning and you guys are down by three but not quite ready to quit now there are a lot of outs left top of the eighth evans at the plate after singles by buckner and rice he drives one into the gap billy buck scores sort of right rice scores and it's six to five that chases mcdowell and here comes orozco to face the left-handed hitting gedman with evans at second and nobody out in what is now a one-run game and a line drive that's caught by bachmann evans dives back in but the red sox are unable to move the man to third not that play by evan so can you get it back back it was a rocket [Applause] he's our mr october don balor's got a bat as henderson strikes out anderson had been mr october but that time marasco got him and here comes baylor who had started the rally in game five of the alcs in the top of the ninth against mike witt with a two run homer [Applause] off speed pitch bounced to short santana throws him out and the tying run is left at second base and it's a 6-5 game as the mets come up in the bottom half of the eighth that's a big league pitching right there you know running around second nobody out yeti hit the ball on the screws but you know after that made a couple good pitches to some good hitters welcome back to a post season to remember 1986. we head now to the bottom of the eighth of game seven of the world series at shea stadium the red sox have cut the deficit to one it's now six five mets al nipper comes out of the bullpen and relief of calvin cheraldi and the first man he faces is daryl strawberry again vin scully high drive into deep right field evans [Applause] now that ball was hit a mile high but didn't take daryl took a lot longer to get around that ball to get out this is a 30-second home run right here mookie and i think we know why it really wasn't directed at the red sox that one was for davey yeah i think well straw has worse emotions on the sleeves a lot of times and um you know when you play with guys during the course of the season you get to understand you know their personalities and and and why they do certain things um but then you know that will distraught is kind of saying see this is why you leave me in the ball game and the red sox took it as an insult to them yeah and as it happened the next spring training nipper faced strawberry in florida and immediately hit him with a pitch and it ignited a bench clearing incident but really it was all about straw being ticked off at david yeah but you know you can't blame nipper because he doesn't know what was going on and i but it made for interest in spring training so that made it seven to five mets tacked on another run made it 8-5 to the top of the ninth ed romero fouls out wade boggs grounds out and marty barrett is up against jesse orozco the red sox down to their last out you could feel yeah shea stadium shake yes you could literally feel it shake yes i think the one thing that we did notice and i i'll make a note of this is whenever i see this i look into you guys dug out and you guys had the same look that we had in game six except for except for we didn't have a game seven to go to after that that was it well you talk about the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat and the immortal words of jim mckay you felt all of that that october it was um it was a postseason to remember it was unbelievable i mean we rode every possible emotion through the playoffs into the world series and you can't come any closer to one of the world series and lose than we did you just can't and it was it was it was tough it was the the thing that that got me through the whole thing was the next spring that's where we just never let it die we were still picking the scabs from from what happened in game six in uh the next spring and um it was a it made for a real long year in 87. i got to ask you there is a team that i think knows how you feel yeah 2011 texas rangers yes one strike away your club threw 16 pitches with the chance to get the out to win the world series for them with one strike to go texas threw nine pitches in that situation needing one out three of them one strike away the only two teams to get that close without closing it when watching the texas rangers what did you guys think what did you feel been there done that i mean i i felt for uh a gondo that when he when he when he hit uh i can't remember who he hit with the curveball and i'm just calling he's i said i told my wife i said been there done that and and all he did was overthrow it try to make a perfect pitch and and i just felt for him isn't that the beauty about baseball i mean no offense to football that would be great if we could just kneel down for the last three hours you know didn't have to throw the ball you know we'd be wearing the ring and you guys would be in second place but you have to throw it i mean they make you get all three al 27 outs they all have to be recorded and it's the beauty of the game you know i i think the baseball that what it gives you i mean the way you guys made it through the playoffs and then finally the world series and the end where we had to fight and scrape against houston and you know it was just i thought it's phenomenal it's a phenomenal year for baseball um you know i know we had a great year but for baseball in general for any baseball fan forget whether you're boston fan or met fans or whatever that was the greatest year for baseball i think i've i've been involved with you know the thing that i found tom no matter who wound up winning or losing when we brought the participants together for any of the 20 greatest games are now for a look at both lcs's and the world series in 86 there's a real respect and kinship among the opponents not just the teammates there's no question i think intense competitors on both sides but i think correct me if i'm wrong i think you guys understood what you were a part of that here we are 25 years later and we're talking about the competition and you guys were lucky enough even though i know you don't like the results on the red sox side but lucky enough to take part in this postseason yeah it was a privilege yeah yeah and some we both teams will finally own demons you know you guys find the curse yeah you know exactly and then the mets hadn't been top of the charts a long time so we just had our demons that we were fighting and i think that part of what made that series so so good and i think that's part of what made that um the the error by by billy you know so bad it was an error i mean how many errors have been made i mean you know it was it was a big time on a big stage for two teams that were struggling to regain an identity as measly played franchises mookie thanks bruce as always thanks double appearances encore appearances for you guys calvin a lot of us in the baseball world hadn't seen you in a while so so thank you thank you for having me it's been a pleasure thanks to all three of you tom sit tight there's more to come let's hear from keith hernandez he wasn't in the clubhouse during the celebration this time as he was in game six he was right in the middle of it after game seven so there's jesse with the big final out and then it's over and i remember i got in the bottom of that pile it was right kevin mitchell's face was right in my face and we were pinned at the bottom of the pile i couldn't move and we were just our friend we were just right here looking at each other and just laughing because we couldn't move [Applause] i still carry it with me no question about it and i took off my world series american league championship ring that year because every time i was driving the car that ring would show up in front of me and i you know then the memory starts streaming and i thought you know why aggravate yourself 25 years later what i remember about the 86 world series is that wow pitch i mean that's the thing sticks in my mind because i knew then we were going to win the whole thing tom a lot of memorable games and plays and reminiscences from some of the key figures what strikes you well it's amazing that these games they don't end not with the last out 25 years later we talk about it as if it were yesterday and what stood out was john mcnamara talking very decisively about his version of roger clemen's exit very different from roger's version and calvin cheraldi the comfort level to move on from that game was to me very striking very impressive and the fact that even the red sox wound up losing it at least those who are here in the studio they have a certain pride about having been part of it as painful as it was a pride about having been part of such a memorable lcs which they won over the angels and world series which they lost to the mounts three weeks of incredible baseball it wasn't just one game one week three weeks amazing that's why it was a post season to remember 1986. well that pretty much states it right there doesn't it and the mets are down to their last out it's so quiet in new york you can almost hear boston it was on the big screen and he came out and i remember saying look at that son of a gun went up there and shaved because he always remember clemens always pitched with a four day growth and so this guy thinks he's got they got it calvin cheraldi trying to finish off the mets and the 1986 baseball season lined into left field base it for carter and the mets are still alive third ball and that's going to be hit the center base hit and that's going to be hit into center field here comes card at his score and the time run is at third that's when i to daryl and say i am not leaving this chair i said aye this chair's got three hits in it i'm going nowhere they told me that they had the clubhouse set up and had to tear down the paper because of the champagne and it's gonna go to the back stop here [Applause] [Music] so the winning run is at second base with two out three and two to mookie wilson he was not going to put me out there if he was going to hurt the ball club little roller up along first now would dave stapleton had caught the ball yeah so what did you bob you'd have caught that ball behind the bag people ask me how i feel now about it i feel very blessed yeah i've played 21 years in the major leagues got played two world series [Applause] would i have liked it things have changed differently in the seventh game are obviously or the sixth game but it didn't would i do it again with the same results heck yeah spooky have you ever seen anything like this this whole whole season play has been unbelievable but you gotta give credit to the guys we don't give up and that's perfect it's out because he used to fold it but everybody battled back it was letting me do my part and i did the best i could hey boston hold your head up you gave it your best shot and came up a buck short yeah i still think about it i don't second guess myself or dread what happened and you know i guess it's very important that uh you know that was a tremendous playoff and a tremendous world series and you know what the hell i'll be part of history he's freaking out the mix has won the world series the dream has come true the mets have won the world series now the crowd salutes them as they can say truly we are number one

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Id: zsROPB_MNAo

Length: 91min 44sec (5504 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 02 2020