years for the charges. We will continue updating you that on that story and any new developments now let's get back to Massachusetts where the long awaited trial for Karen Reid is now underway. She is accused of killing her police officer boyfriend during a snowstorm back in 2022. But her defense says she's being framed let's get you back into court now we're a little behind we're bringing you all of the testimony and the Commonwealth next witnesses just taken the stand this is the sister-in-law of John o'keefe Erin o'keefe let's go back in. >> Could you up the state your name and spell your last name be shorts Erin o'keefe okay. >> E e FT. >> And where is it that you live West Bridgewater. If anyone to you live there where I live with my husband Paul and our 2 girls. The 10 years this year. And your girls how old are you. Now for a 1310. >> How long have you and Paul been together how long are you. >> The 24 years this year and 17 years married this year. Currently I'm added I switched Currently I work for mechanical contractor. >> Sort of in general terms what what type of work is it that you and the marketing director. And he said he switched jobs are how long have you been doing this sort of be there 2 years in October. Your husband Paul how how did that to you. >> I was his waitress in a bar when he was in college. >> As far as your husband pause concerned his parents what was reported John and Margaret. an older sister and an older brother John and Christian. Re John Christian all who was the oldest to youngest age difference. >> was the oldest. Johnny was next and Paul being the youngest and Paul what 3 years younger than John E 4. >> And your sister Locke, a Christian she was that's When she married at some point. Yes her husband, Steve you. >> All about when it was that that. >> Your sister like Kristen and Steve got they got married in 2006. Your sister-in-law Kristen and her husband Steve didn't have any. >> Children they kaylee and Patrick. >> Patrick about how old are they. >> Kaylie is 16 now and Patrick is 13. Of course is that correct correct. >> And at some did your sister like Kristen Rosen Steven and their children moved to the town of Khan they did an about what time or what year was >> And 2009 2010, I believe. >> And if you know where have they been living previously before they moved. >> They were renting out there CA townhouse in Abington so they were living in Dorchester with Johnny. >> And so if you know at the time that they were living with Johnnie a we're both Patrick and Kerry born yet just kaylee. Your sister-in-law Kristen Bott said. What about that was that you learn that. >> It was June 2013 beginning of June. >> That you call what she was sick from what the diagnosis >> was diagnosed with glioblastoma. >> At some point subsequent to that. Correct 6 months later. 11/11/2013. Now at that point in November of 2013. >> You and the rest of your family was concerned what was sort of. The plan and the expectation as far as what was going happened with the children Patrick and Kara. >> I know that my in-laws were helping while Steve was still here. passed away 2 months later, but my in-laws were helping Steve. Kind of get acclimated. >> What if any role I did your brother and I called him Johnny is that correct. Yes. So what if any role that your brother-in-law, Johnny have with respect to the kids. >> He was very involved because he was very involved in my sister-in-law I was sick I think he was out on. His hand or or something when he was working out on when he was out on the streets I guess and so he was on disability and was helping and going to the hospital all the time and being with Christian. >> And that he was out on disability and that it was working what was it that your brother-in-law John o'keefe you're for. >> He was a police officer in Boston. >> You mentioned that's shortly after sister my Christian passed away since even also passed away is that correct correct. >> What if anything it sort of came to play what would have. >> Pollen Johnny went out to lunch one day and we had kind of assumed because. Johnny was. On you know the streets doing his job like that that pollen I would take the kids and Johnny said he was going to do it. >> We sort of volunteer to stepped up to do correct correct. Where Johnny go to live where the kids live. >> moved into their house in Canton the original House that Stephen Kristen had bought he moved in with the kids there. >> About how long was it that Johnny live there with the kids. >> For years for 5 years. I don't remember the exact year that he bought a new house. >> And so they were there for 5 years and then you mentioned that he bought a new house where was the new house. >> The new house is the House now Meadows out in Canton. >> And so from whatever time. County bought that House he lived there basically with kids coming back to Kentucky. To your niece and nephew what if any. For legal did Johnny have with respect to to the case back. >> He became their guardian. >> During the time that. From the time that that your brother-in-law John it sort of took over that guardianship with respect to your niece and nephew. As far as dating what's what if any sort of long-term relationship to have that here before you answer that if I could just ask you for your definition as far as what are you. He might harm us as far as the long term. >> 1, 2 years I guess as a start 2 years. >> During that time after resume sort of guardianship of the kids are how many of those relationships, one to 2 years or so that he and John after that. And what are the names of the people that we have those relationships. >> The first was and then Karen. >> And just be clear by Amy that you know where she lives. >> She resides in Westwood. And the second that you mentioned was care. What is Karen's lasting read this first. By repurposes do you see the first thing you knew Karen re correct. Yes, just for clarity purposes record you seek out read in the form I do could be decided by were has to ration seated on article of clothing shoes. Or blue blazer. Her relationship with regard to niece and nephew what if any sort of legal relationship that you have with regard to your niece or nephew or 2, your brother-in-law, John okay. Legal non. Now as far as. Over the well when was the first that you recall meeting the defending >> I believe it was in June of 2020 during covid. Based on sort of your arms. >> And then when with that in relation to when they began sort of everybody. >> I I think it was in February or March of that same year. >> Right around the time that the pandemic caused the sort of general shutdown correct I think so yes. Now as far as you are aware that you know of any sort of preexisting relationship or in time and dated in the past prior to that February March, 2020. I learned that after the fact. So fair to say during any sort of a previous time that they may or may not have dated you haven't met MS. Reid you want to wear for correct. I have not met her. And you would call sort of where you were what the circumstances were the first time that you that you met at the time. >> I believe we were coming to our house it was either. I it may have been a birthday party or father's Day, but we are out on the patio think it was June. >> As well as the children came over your house with some kind of holiday or something correct. >> Well a whole lot of time spent on establishing that relationship between the victim John o'keefe known as Johnny to the sister-in-law and the fact he became the guardian of his sister's 2 children with his sister passed away, but that's kind of where we are at the m om We're TV live on Ashley will cut thank you so much for joining us we're into courtrooms, this afternoon in Boise Idaho, the doomsday prophet murder trial for defendant Chad daybell continues this afternoon he is facing charges in connection to the deaths of his wife Tammy and the deaths of Lori vallow's 2 children right now the jury is hearing from Tammy daybell's cousin and coming up next hour. We will get a live report from our own Kelly craft on all those highlights but let's get back now to testimony in the high-profile trial of Karen read the Massachusetts woman charged with killing her police officer boyfriend, Sean o'keefe on the stand right now we hit that pause button it's o K his sister-in-law describing the first time that she met the dead then on the back porch at their home. Let's go back in. >> Describe sort of your relationship with the defendants. As far prior to 1/29/2022 with you consider yourself a car drives euro. The ship has as fronts I would. And how often sort of from that time of when you first matter in June of 2020. Through The end of January 2022. >> How often would you see a sort of your niece or nephew. >> 1, 2, times a month it was covid so. When we could be outsider for all get together or if there was a birthday. And whether any occasions where you. >> Occasion to to spend time with their hang out with the defendant outside of. Your brother-in-law, John. >> Yes, and we talked quite often. >> Just in regard to sort of in person about how many times. >> Without I don't recall. Understanding of sort of the living arrangement how what was your understanding as far as the relationship and and sort of where everybody lived or where but state or how often. >> I believe that Karen was their most times I do know that. She like to go home on Mondays just a kind of have a fresh time by herself in Thursday she was teaching an online class so she would be home on Thursday says well. But for the majority of the time I believe. >> I just be clear when you say over their mean the House on meadow. Correct when you say she was home where else that you have a home during that time in Mansfield. Have you had occasion to be over her house Mansfield than any point in time that you were my friends. I had gone over once yes. What if anything were you aware as far as fights arguments issues, anything right. >> I think normal relationship. You know, you know. The stuff, everyone goes through. >> Expound upon that as far as what I'm saying normal relationship What what what exactly. >> You know my in laws being they're often could be stressful. To care to people with kids in life. Normal everyday relationship. >> During this reliving in West Bridgewater still is that correct correct and where where you live what how when you're working. At that time I was working in Brighton. West Bridgewater armed elite 8 that's correct and so during that sort of long commute. What if anything would you do with reference to that defendant with anyone which typically talk to one of those long. >> Or call her and say I'm paying and driving and where she would call me and. >> We would just shoot the breeze and just talk. >> I mean that's something how often would you do. Now as far as. Your relationship with the defendant misread. >> You. >> Consider yourself friends are friendly is that correct correct is that something that you communicated to her she communicated to you in any way. >> Say how how well we've got a long and. She would say if they ever broke up she hoped that she and I would stay friends. >> This is o'keefe record turn your attention to January 20 a 2022 into January 29th. First let me. Bringing back a little bit so New Year's Eve are going from 2021 to 2022 people call that time front. Do you recall where you were when you were with around that. >> We were in Aruba for my mother's birthday. >> When you say we were finding one where you want to really. >> My mother father sister husband and our 2 girls. >> So that we are also aware of where your brother-in-law John o'keefe and misread and. And Kerry were that times while they were also in Aruba. Where they were situated in the room where was that relate to where you're situated. >> We work our we work. >> You need a cab it was not the other side of the eye and but far enough away you need to catch a cab. They were more downtown. >> All right the burning question thankfully still with us criminal defense attorney Jack Rice Joshua for Josh that burning question is how does this help the state just a reminder for viewers, this defendant is charged with 3 counts. We have second-degree murder. Manslaughter while under the influence of alcohol, leaving the scene of personal injury. Yet we're hearing from this witness about how the victim and the defendant had normal relationship fights like the in-laws being there often was stressful Josh, what does this do for the state. >> I think that having some audio visual but really humanize its the scene said still and as I understand this is about priming the pump and if I reverse rules with the state I'm using these facts, what witnesses they can talk about the actual people to put flesh on the bones to talk about the mayor really non-confrontational nothing to object to Mayor because then I'm going to turn up the heat and as this built it. We're talking about the state needed to create a crescendo of emotion and so far it's only been noticeable out on emotional this has been so I believe they're going to start a stair step approach to increase the emotion and a linear way with more emotionally connecting witnesses one after another until they really get to the penultimate smoking gun kind of kind kind of witnesses. >> You know, Jack I can see you've got a knot in your eyes moving around because you're thinking about all of that I want you to respond, but also I'd like you to tell me could it backfire could hearing favorable things about the death and then she was a friend I really liked her could that influence the jury to help the defense. >> And it can and let's start right there one of the things that this really can do to backfire against the state is that there could come a point here with this jury will make their decision. They will stop listening. And what they will do is they will start thinking about a whole series of doubts and then hold on to them and sometimes maybe this is a human nature thing sometimes we coming to a decision as to what and the answer is and then we start fighting for it and when you could actually push a jury anybody frankly to a space where they start fighting for their position. It's very hard to well somebody off of that sort of like you know when you when you meet somebody and you like them you'll stay with it if you don't like them it's very hard to convince them that you should like somebody after that when they finally say I just don't like that. >> Got to get that can happen to and that's really important. This is that sort of intellectual versus visceral concept of how we think and I'm telling you I think with my heart I think most people think from their heart they then justified in their heads because we want all sound smart, but you know I'm not that smart I just I just feel it right here, you know right here. >> And I think every trial we watch people feel it. You know viewers could be very divisive about which way they are feeling about that case and in this case I think it makes a difference that both of these witnesses are sad. They're just said you've got 2 kids who lost their mom their dad now they're on call guardian. You've got a girlfriend of the victim that they like. It's it's just sad so right now I feel that some overwhelming emotion we have to take a break when we come back of cours Let's get back now to them murder trial underway for Karen Reid in Massachusetts REIT stands accused of killing her police officer boyfriend outside the home of one of his fellow officers. >> But her attorneys accuse police of covering up a fight that happened inside the home on the scene now so key sister-in-law Aaron we hit the pause button lets go right back in where we left off. ♪ >> They were with a large group of people. I would I don't know how many but there was a large group of people that was going down. >> In particular organize for that report. Yes, Larry Sullivan. You know or so I do and how do you know, I know Lar through Johnny he's her son's godfather. >> That's as far as you knew that Mister o'keefe Johnny o'keefe and Laura Sullivan, I know. And any when you were in a during around the time and New Year's. Did you ever meet up with our. Now at some point time when you were in a room and during that same time what if any conversation to have with the mistreatment. >> I don't believe any with Karen text me on the flight down the flight attendants were Karen and Aaron and we were trying to arrange an see if there was a time we could get together. >> The flight attendants on the flight down. >> That yes she texted means of that. >> And so you have been trying to arrange some time or some data sort of you know is that correct. >> I don't know I don't recall I had texted her on New Year's Eve to see where they were. What if anything did she reply. That you're applying text. She did it wasn't until later in the that she had caught Johnny kissing Lars sister in the lobby of the hotel. It's just that they got into an argument about it. And the 2 of you and by the time it's sort of the 2 groups of families to choose. >> Never connector or you have been important when you're in a row. >> did not. >> Revenue for the conversation was misread in reference to what she had indicated. >> Responded and said like kissing and. I don't recall what her response was but. I have missed the next Tech she said she did I want to meet up she had freshened up and did did I want to meet up, but I had missed it was. Either already going to bed or just missed until the next day. >> She indicated to you via text that they got it. Further indicated more. >> I missed who I am just going to be a brief instruction at this point I excuse me so folks you just testimony about statements that were allegedly made by the defendant. You really not to use the statements for the truth but you can consider them solely. The limited purpose of the defendant's state of mind and as they go to the nature of the relationship between the defendant and John okay. Thank you. >> Between that time Aruba and January 28th of 2022 that you had occasion to meet up with Johnny o'keefe and or the defendant Karen Reed with the kids or any anybody from that. >> No our older daughter tested positive and she and Paul were had to stay back in Aruba so we didn't have and then by the time they got back it it's back to school and we didn't have a chance. >> All right I want to bring back in check Rice Joshua for because of that interesting ruling where there was a statement allegedly made by the defendant and the judge said hey jury you cannot take that for the truth of what she said, but rather either her mental state or as to the relationship she had with the victim in the case, Jack you first. >> I don't think about that elephant I told you never think about that elephant oh by the way are you thinking about that all the fun that is exactly the point you look at all these rules in law school we talked about hearsay and we talked about it for an entire class and then we talked about it again. We talked about it again and again and you tell all these rulings to jurors and they throw them out the window and they think about what they're going to think about regardless of what's being said by the way still thinking about the elephant. >> Yeah, absolutely agree with you Josh way and what are your thoughts because I was shocked when she said them like too late. >> It drives me Knox makes me want to rip out the very little hair that I have left because it's totally gaming the system. Jurors are incompetent when it comes to just for getting now following. Yeah, it's ridiculous you cannot put the toothpaste back in the 2. No matter how hard you try no matter how many tiny little spoons, you get your not get back in there and it allows both sides and he lit again to go out there and throw these ridiculous verbal bombs knowing that it causes problems knowing that it can be misleading knowing that they're going to be on the losing side of a ruling. But this strategic wind is still there because they putting out into the sandbox they can never go away. Yeah and it drives me nuts because it's manipulating the system, but it's the game you play. >> Yeah, all right real quick because you texted me Josh as we're watching we text each other and Jack your thoughts on the not using cross-examination not asking any really quickly Josh, what's that about. >> All right so I believe that the defense is really got a running gun with a lean cut these and it's going to be all about the insufficient of the police were insufficient investigation. They never chased down the leads that made it possible for a cover up to exist and by the way we also have some indications of a coverup know beyond a reasonable doubt. >> All right what do you think Jack is that effective. >> I think it is effective and that's why Josh is America's sweetheart right there come here baby coming to show the good stuff right. >> You know what I think this trial is starting a little differently than we all in tis the baited because it's not a dynamic charismatic presentation by the state and it just goes to certain strategy and different ports are different do it differently. What is the jury going to decide you're both going to stay with us for the next hour. >> Coming up next more testimony continues in the killer, we're cover up murder trial for Karen Reid plus court has ended early in the Chad daybell trial and thankfully. Kelly Kraft is joining us next fall, the biggest moments from today , Welcome back to court TV Judge Ashley welcome. Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. We're covering 2 high profile murder trials for you here at Court TV and Idaho court he's ended early for the day and the Chad daybell triple homicide trial. The self-proclaimed doomsday prophet faces the death penalty if he is found guilty of murdering his first wife and his new wife's 2 children. We will have a live report coming up in just a moment and the Massachusetts day one of testimony is underway for a woman accused of killing her Boston cop boy front Karen Reid faces second-degree murder after prosecutors say that she hit John o'keefe the victim in the case with her car and then drove off leaving him to die in the snow. The defense though is claiming a massive coverup by the police saying that o'keefe wound up dead. Only after he went to hang out with some of his fellow officers that night at a house party. Let's get you back into court now the jury is hearing from o'keefe sister-in-law all Erin o'keefe describing again her relationship with the defendant in this case, let's go back in. >> January 28th of January 20. >> Johnny had been communicating to Paul that wanted to get us together on the 29th. I said there's a big storm coming I don't think that's going to happen. >> Where somehow of of big storm coming in on that weekend as far as the 29th was concerned correct. And what if anything all sort of about which were aware of as far as that's I'm like how severe will kind of storm. >> I don't recall specifics, but I I knew that it was a big storm that was coming for Saturday with a lot of snow. >> And so you didn't think that was a good idea to set up a time. On that A January 28. >> She had texted me while I was waiting for the school bus. Asking if there was any chance I was without Paul. >> Typical thing that she would text you as far as the without Paul. Indicated to a waiting for the school Correct and at that time in January 2022. You have 2 daughters, correct. Yes, Ordinance aims. School as far as on the same boss. No they were not there separate schools. The elementary one was in middle school, correct. So as far as around that time that you received a text with and. When your daughter that you win. The younger daughter. It was after 3 o'clock. And who comes home or at that time. When you see that. Tax from the defendant what if anything. >> I said that we I was waiting for the school bus and we had basketball on Friday nights. >> Basketball on Friday night was that something that was one of your daughters are both both. And do you recall. With regard to your daughter's basketball that time. Relationship and your husband have to those. He was the coach for both of them. And was that something that was sort of Micah, a local league is that correct town leak out. And all of you and by all I mean yourself your husband. And you recall about what time those games. >> 6 or 7. >> This reader reached out to you in Texan you and then you are responding as you describes with any further conversation. >> I asked her if everything was OK if something was up. And she responded and said the other day I wish I didn't talk to an o'keefe after 2004. I said what happened what's going on in. They had occurred, I guess about her taking caylee to Dunkin Donuts in the morning. Before school. >> And just to be clear when you say that you mean Johnny o'keefe as chair of the corrupt. >> You recall sort of how that conversation. >> Bald or what if anything else was said during that time. >> I just knew that they had. Gotten into some type of what I don't know if it was an argument or. There was something they bickered about her taking them and he said that she spoil them. Your conversation with Mister Reid and the guards. Said I was anticipating a storm so was probably going to hang in the neighborhood with everybody. >> Now as far as later on that afternoon. What if any of that sort of further communication did you receive from misread that. >> think the last tax was a picture something that popped up in her memories of my children and. Kilian Patrick from the Cape that some our and said this just popped up my memories made me smile. >> Now did you have occasion to talk with MS. Read any further on that day the 28. Now that was it. And so you went to your kid's basketball games came back to the House is that correct correct. If you recall about what time you went to bed. >> Close to midnight or after because Paul and I were sitting and watching TV. And watch that you're doing. Yes. >> Before you went to did you have occasion sort of knowing that snow is coming. Did you have occasion sort of. >> Noted that while we were still up watching television that it was snowing all ready. >> And did you have occasion to see whether or not it was sort of sticking to that you came in to grasp. >> I looked out on the deck and it was starting to accumulate on the deck sticking to the dock. Probably around 1030 or 11. This is at your house and. >> You go to bed and at some point you wake up on the 29th and if you recall what is it that way too often. >> I woke up to my husband on the phone. With its mother saying he's going to be okay. He's going o K. They got off the phone and I said what Hap and it what's going on and he said they found Johnny in the snow this morning. He's pacing around and he goes to the bathroom to brush his teeth because he said that he was going to drive to the hospital. Good Samaritan. >> Weather and sort of the road conditions what if any concerns. >> I was concerned driving because the roads weren't good. What if any information. They were going to the hospital and Kerry Roberts was going to pick them up because they didn't have a car that could drive in the snow. Someone mentioned you prior to this day. I yeah I knew her from when Johnny moved to Canton. Yes, I'm sorry. When your husband is leaving what if any. >> Some of that earlier than the previous evening, what if any observations that you. >> When he was leaving. Your home and your children home with you is that correct correct. With anyone you reach out to that to sort of find out what's going. >> When Paul was brushing his teeth. I said to him where's Karen way where she is she OK and I called her and I could hear the phone pick up and I she didn't say hello I just said Karen what the is going on. And she just yelled back in the phone John's dead. Kerry Roberts grabbed the phone from her and said. He's at the hospital, they're working on him. I didn't know what was going on. They were in Carey's car waiting for an ambulance to pick up Karen. And then Kerry was going to pick up my in-laws. >> As far as sort of going through that day. >> I when I spoke to Kerry in the car, I asked her to take my phone number. I knew she was going to the hospital and I was nervous that Paul was going to be there by himself so I asked her to please keep me. Informed as to what was happening when she got there. I think I called her every 5 minutes. I think it was. I don't recall the exact time but Kerry had texted me or called me to let me know when they were finally called in by the doctors from the emergency room. >> What if anything you learned once a call. >> All right 6 seed. >> Later on that day. Did you have a further conversation with the defense. >> I think it was around 1 o'clock. And if you recall was at a situation where you call. I didn't know what was going on and I kept saying to my husband has anyone checked on Karen is Karen o K. So I called her. She answered the phone and. Said that I was on speaker and she was in the car with her dad. And they were driving to Dayton. >> Questions if you ask her about what happened. >> Asked her I said what the happened last night. I couldn't understand first how they were together if they had been. Arguing earlier in the day. She told me that they were out. >> That she he she dropped him at a party afterwards. >> I didn't feel like going so dropped him and went back to Cannes. >> What if anything did she say. >> She said she went back to Canton. And I think woke up around 4.30 and couldn't find him and woke up kaylee to see if kaylee had heard from him at all. She said that she went to go out and look but the roads were bad so went back in called Kerry and Jen so that they could drive together. Kerry Roberts. I had never met John. >> And what if anything that you say that's when I would carry and. Is that possible to refresh my memory on that. What if anything else. The >> She told that she had to remember the bad times. Struck me as an odd comment to say. But I had. I soon since she was at the hospital that maybe she was Medicaid. But it just struck me as something odd. >> In addition to be. >> Having to remember the bad times what if anything else to shoot. >> She said I don't think I'm ever going to see you guys again and I said course you will where friends. >> Now following. Did you ever speak with the defendant Karen rate again now. I just one last question and so. In regard to those last 2 statements that testified about I was at all part and parcel of the same conversation when the defendant indicate she was driving back with a father to die. So there was no further conversation after that conversation shortly after 01:00PM. I've nothing further for this which right cross examination. >> Hi miss o'keefe you're all set. Thank you.
