alrighty Let's uh let's get this going we're good to go how's it going everybody um do a quick intro and then we'll get into it very excited about this one I am Patrick spy chowski I do socials at clay.com as well as Ron clay agency and I am joined here today by couple Legends Eric Noah slowski founder of growth engine x one of the best clay users out there very excited for the campaign he's about to show you as well as Felipe from instantly AI which is just an incredible tool and I'm sure most of you on this webinar are aware of that already so um this webinar is just about how you can use clay instantly to write incredible personalized outbound messages much more powerful than most of the tools out there and cl instantly in general are just they're like peas and carrots they work incredibly well together great combo and um it's just Clay is great for writing personalized outbound with great data and instantly is amazing for sending out personalized messages very seamlessly with play and they have a native integration together and we'll get into that in a second but I figured we would kick it off by just showing you what clay can do and how it sequences with instantly for great results so I'm going to pass it off to Eric he's going to walk you through an incredible campaign that's had great results um using the two tools and uh from there we will get into the actual integration so I'll pass it off to you Eric yeah thank you so much and so uh thanks for having us on it's been great to always work with Clay instantly one thing that I think we've never been super public about because I'm never really public about the customers that we work with but we've gotten permission from them to already be pretty public is we have actually been the outbound uh agency provider for instantly for I think over a year and a half now um we've been doing it for a a very long time and when they first brought me in I actually thought I was gonna be a part of a YouTube video I thought they were gonna say something like we tried 10 agencies and here's who the best was because I was like why like what are you guys talking about like why why would you do this and they're like no no no we really want you to to be running our outbound I was like great so um we kicked off our normal experimentation process that we had you know a year and a half and it since it's improved since then and we've actually tried a ton of different campaigns for them and for them they're a perfect example of sometimes when something isn't broke just don't fix it it's uh we found one campaign that was getting more results than any of the other campaigns and so when everything is humming along and it's all good we usually get 10 to 20 positive responses uh we had a crazy inbox situation last week so we're in a little bit of a lull right now but um I'm going to first present all of the things that we tried and then how easily clay makes it to try all of those different things and then I'm going to get into the clay table that we're sending right now that works the best for them and uh then I guess we can pass it over to Felipe and we can see everything so the first thing I want to show is if you've seen this document I'm G to share my screen and stop me if you can't see my screen in a couple of seconds if you've seen this document that I've created back over Christmas I wanted to create my own version of Spotify wrapped except it was for our customers so I put together a 53-page document going over different campaigns we ran the success of them and and what you know kind of occurred from all of these and in the document I have a section called a case for using GPT to write your emails and so even though we don't mention instantly here this precisely was our case study of working with instantly. a and so what we did was we at first we tried all kinds of things and here's the literal results for all kinds of these things campaign to Target newly High newly hired people uh in their ICP we got some good opportunities from it but it actually wasn't the best performing campaign campaigns to Target people using a competitor platform we tried this once or twice but ultimately it was not amazing stuff to be to be doing uh campaign messaging Founders about founder-led sales automation not amazing case study matching okay but still not amaz amazing we d a campaign that was just two sentences and straight to the point actually raal like loves those campaigns so we were launching that for him then we mentioned uh Integrations of technographics that you could use so if you're using HubSpot or close or something like that it instantly integrates really well we got some good opportunities there and then basically the best ones were the campaign to join a free community and the AI generated campaign now who cares about the campaign to join a free community because it's free it doesn't really matter but the AI generated campaign on a lead to positive response ratio was by far the best uh campaign that we ran and that's currently the Mainstay campaign that we run outside of their more Enterprise campaigns and so here this clay table is precisely how we launch that campaign and so what we do is we just honestly this is just Apollo data that we're just uploading um or we'll just use the instantly data as well because instantly a lot of people don't know this and like I've talked to Felipe about this what I love about the instantly data that have on the platform is they have it synced with some of the data that they have on the sending so if somebody bounces if an email bounces every time that you send to it they're already taking care of that stuff for you and um there there's just some things that I wish Apollo would do that instantly is taking advantage of on like the global thing so like and Felipe could maybe talk about this a little bit more but if somebody has bounced every time you send an email to them they're removing them and I'm pretty sure if somebody every time like people send them emails they report them as like a spammer or they respond with an FTC complaint or something like that they might be taking them out too but that part I'm not so sure about but definitely the bounce and so we'll just upload data straight from the instantly data platform or the Apollo data platform and it all just syncs into into this clay table and then everything is this is all just data that we just get from uh the CSV then we use debounce to verify all of the emails and to just make sure that everything is working um then we we move on and we enrich the company page so that we could create a we could get a description of what the company does then we used GPT which you could tell how long ago if you aren't sure about when we started working with instantly this this is what our GPT prompt looks like and this is the UI for the GPT in clay this was like UI number two like it goes back so far of U using this and so what we're literally doing is we're just training an AI inside of this uh prompt here of considering you see a certain description what are the outbound ideas that you would give given this description so we included we included companies that were similar to instantly so that if it ever saw something that was kind of similar it would know what to say we included companies that were completely off of their um ICP just in case a company didn't quite fit we would say still say something useful to them and then we also included companies that were actually perfect fits like like a software company like kajabi so that it was trained on responses of what precisely it should say in every case and then JY shark again which is kind a little bit more like offt Target so then we trained it on precisely if this is the company description this is what I want you to say and then we got the creative ideas over here and then I don't go have to go too much into how it syncs with instantly because we're going to show the instantly integration in a little bit but um then it just all completely syncs with the instantly integration inside of instantly sends off the leads and we're good to go this is probably one of the most underestimated loves that I have for clay that people people think of clay as a data product but Clay is not a data product it's really a workflow um tool and so the best part about this is before we were doing this think about what you would have to do if you were doing this without clay so first you would have to pull your list from a data provider then you would have to take that CSV file and you would have to upload it to a email validation platform and wait for the email validation platform to be done and then once the email validation platform was done which could take for many emails as we're sending it could take an hour for the email validation platform to be done then once it's done you have to then download that CSV then you have to find some platform that's going to give you the company descriptions or you're going to have to connect an API yourself in Google Sheets I yeah that I don't even know what else you'd want to do to find a company description here then you might have to use something like GPT for sheets or something like that to then get all of these uh the copywriting done here for all the outbound ideas that we're sending and then once all that's said and everything is done running you have to then download the Google sheet and then upload it to your instantly campaign and again here we're even doing another thing where we're even checking prosio to see if we can find an email address that um Apollo instantly couldn't find and again that's just another step in the process the most amazing part to me about Clay is I can take any list and as long as it comes with an email address a website and a LinkedIn URL and a company name we can just launch the campaign there there there's nothing else that we need all of these things get filled out but it's not all of this stuff that we even need oh I need a first name too sorry and so um the best part about this is then we just upload more leads to this campaign and then we can just click out of it and we just move on we don't even have to think about the the campaign anymore because as soon as we find a valid email then it's going to enrich for the company description and once it enriches for the company description it's going to enrich for the AI generated text and then once the AI generated text is done then we're going to send it to the instantly campaign so this makes it really really scalable to run really sophisticated campaigns where otherwise you'd have to be moving spreadsheets back and forth and doing all these CSV file things and it would just get crazy um so yeah this is one of those campaigns that once we found this campaign we don't really touch this campaign we just keep it running and it uh always produces results for us we've reused their Tam list we've probably had to reuse it twice in a year and a half now and it still produces the same results because people just forget and it's just a great message um for us to reach out to them with so yeah that's a quick overview of the most successful campaign that we've run for instantly. beautiful thank youate it um yeah I mean as Eric mentioned before uh Clay is an incredible workflow tool and I I'd say one of the less like you know it's the more common uses of clay that people know about as well are just it it has it can find incredible data like because it's just aggregating all of the data providers that you use already into one tool and then outputting it as just like a clean column in a spreadsheet and from there you can write personal ation that are significantly more powerful than that of let's say if you use one or two of the data providers and again as he mentioned like the time savings you get just from having all of those into one sheet is unbelievable um yeah so yeah uh Felipe if you wanted to show some of the results on your end like on the instantly platform yeah feel free to and then after that maybe we can go into the actual integration itself and how to set it up for your personalizations when you're using clay yeah and I love it and thank you once again for sharing you know some of the magic sauce that uh and the secret sauce that we have I mean uh yeah we have been super happy with the results so far I mean you have done amazing and also you know using clay to get some of the results uh so yeah I'm going to share a bit of like the actual results I think numbers um you know can speak by themselves um but also how we use some AI to automate the entire workflow because the AI component is not just when you're Gathering the data and kind of like uh targeting the right people with Clay but you can also use it later on the process when you actually have to like close people or close sales uh so actually let me share my screen here let me know if you can see it here yeah I think you should be seeing this right yeah yeah yeah we're good awesome so this is just a summary of how many emails we have been sending with instantly uh via Eric's campaigns so over the past 12 months we have sent almost half a million emails um it could be more of course um but and obviously we're ramping up this over the last weeks as you can see um we are obviously very busy all the time um but yeah basically um we have had 2,000 opportunities or almost like $700,000 in opportunities in new sales only via call email and honestly we like to practice what we preach because um we have a phrase here instantly that we we love which is like we grow instantly using instantly because of people ask us like how do you grow so fast guys and obviously we have different channels but definitely call email is one of those channels um so yeah this is just a summary of the great work that you know Eric has done with us um and and using instantly to grow instantly now we I also want to show you um a campaign or actually an account from uh one of our partners where they're also using um clay and this is some these are some of the results that you can also use by combining both clay and instantly so for example the these guys they're killing it they're getting a 133% 15% reply rate which is like crazy uh when you compare it with the average uh I don't know like what do you guys think is the average in the market right now because you know whenever I see someone getting like 15% reply rate uh I don't know we a campaign with 2,000 people and then getting 80 opportunities or sales or people saying yes let's do it it's for me it's just crazy um and you know the way they were explaining this to me I mean the whole um process that they were using is pretty much using Cent which is a I mean Patrick you can obviously like dig deeper on that but the way they will um classify the data before it goes into a campaign it's awesome actually these guys they were using or Linder Solutions so they were getting the data from or Le finder we have like 200 million emails there and then they were they will will push that those uh contacts into clay enrich the data like use some clay gent um magic and then the outcomes is just these amazing results um and then I guess uh when you are getting let's say like when you have those crazy numbers that we have here instantly like for example like let's say you are getting um 2,000 replies right or or you're sending like half a million emails like how do you manage so many replies like that's that's a problem that we sometimes um you know encounter or people will ask us like you know like do I need to hire more people and the answer is like not really like you could do the same but with less people via instantly so a lot of people will build like their sort of like um autom in order to um you know reply back to people like when they say yes send me more information so this is the instantly uni boox and basically you do you don't need to build an automation if you use instantly um you know I know like there are some other ways of getting this done but we just built this all inhouse for you guys uh so it's a combination of open AI or CH gbt with um just a bit of our secret sauce and basically we call it the AI inbox manager so it will just handle the replies for you on autopilot so whenever someone replies like please send me the video or send me more information or whatever it is the AI model will just learn based on your previous replies and it will just reply back it will uh yeah it will just keep the conversation going um and if it's not confident enough it's not going to reply so uh that's another beautiful thing of the of the model that we built um basically uh it's only going to reply when it's just confident it's not going to Rin that conversation or lead um and yeah I think that's that's sort of like a summary of how you can get amazing results but at the same time like not have any bottlenecks along the way um yeah I just didn't want to like take too much time because I I think Eric is the one that is sharing the most valuable stuff here so yeah yeah um sweet well I figured um now we can kind of just walk into oh I think uh Patrick's uh internet that's a shot yeah he pull a magic trick but yeah anyways so yeah again like Eric um you know we have been super happy with the results that you have given us so far um I think like one one question that we are seeing often from the community is um you know like we so we have like one of the largest communities in call email out there like it's called Uh I think we have like 40,000 members um I'm not flexing at all just you know true yeah num speak themselves yeah yeah but basically um you know this was something that was very exciting for the community and we are actually live streaming there as well um and a lot of people will be asking like how do you use clay um you know to your your campaigns now I know you went like like through an overview of uh how to use clay on a basic level I mean on an advanced level like basically for instantly right but if if someone was like a very basic user um and they just they will need to start getting using clay like what would be the best way to like learn this stuff or like to um get to use clay I think this will benefit a lot of our community because we have a lot of these questions yeah I I definitely agree with that so A Lot Like I said a lot of people get hung up and they think oh Clay is super expensive you know and and they get hung up by that and it's like Clay is the cheapest employee you're ever gonna hire ever and so for the biggest thing that I was just talking about there with like what what's your alternative to not using clay is you would have to hire a person so let's say a virtual assistant starts at like $800 a month you'd have to hire a person to literally move spreadsheets and do all these kinds of things right so when like I said when I talk about clay and using it in an outbound agency sometimes all the crazy stuff that we do isn't even the most valuable thing that happens really the most valuable thing that we do is just the workflow part of clay and so now they've changed the pricing a little bit I'm going to go on a quick field trip on my computer and I'm going to make sure I'm not saying anything totally off based but you can use your own API keys and bring it into clay and never use any clay credits so API use your own API Keys okay so for $149 a month you can use your own API Keys now that allows you to use your email verification service that allows you to use your uh sending platforms oh I'm so sorry let's just check on that though uh all right so for $349 a month you can use the email tool Integrations whatever so compare that to hiring a virtual assistant now for $350 month you could totally replace a person who pulls your list well somebody still has to pull the list but everything after pulling the list cleaning the emails making sure the first names are fine making sure the company names are fine making sure that the employee headcount is correct segmenting the leads so that if they have above 50 employees they're going to go to one campaign and if they go to have less than 50 employees they're going to go to a different campaign all for $350 a month without spending one single clay credit you can get all of those things done and so it's like it's completely replacing a virtual assistant at that level so when people talk to me about first getting started in clay I tell everybody first think of it as a workflow tool and don't go crazy with like oh my gosh the clay credits are so expensive and like blah blah blah it's like okay Clay is the only data product in your stack that actually has a hard cost for all of their data I just want to remind people about that Apollo every time they sell you a um every time they sell you a contact credit or anytime they sell you an export credit what a ridic ulous idea they're making 100% margin on that there's there's no cost for them to fulfill that for you on Clay these are all different data providers and every time you pay clay and you ask for a credit from clay clay is going to a data provider in the back end and you could see it like if you ping builtwith like they're using builtwith API and builtwith is charging them a price like that's just happening now there are some clay credits that you shouldn't be paying for so like email validation don't pay for those clay credits most of the time don't use the open AI um function inside of clay without your API key like don't use the credits for it unless you have a gigantic prompt and so when you're first getting started like just think of it as a workflow tool of easily being able to clean company names for free cleaning first names for free validating emails in line so that it all just moves forward and then syncing um people into campaigns completely automatically that I would say is the the like where everybody should just get started it's like these little manual tasks that you'd have to do like if you have three different campaigns and you it's three different campaigns and one is for a head of marketing another one is for a director of marketing and another one is for an SDR you either pull three separate lists and run three different workflows for that or you pull all of your lists you set up a free formula in clay and then it just picks which one you go to so like I said when you first get started just think of it as like a tool that just can bring in data providers that you're already using don't go crazy about like well Eric posted about this and like you know Eric must be having a cost row of like 10 cents over there like that could like that's so expensive it's like yeah I get it but that's not there are still so many campaigns that we launch where the offer is just good enough that we're not doing anything other than maybe a little bit of AI personalization but really we're just using it as a workflow tool from there yeah if if you think about it it's just crazy that I mean what's the pricing it for clay like it goes for um starts at 149 or 129 oh 149 and then yeah moves up to like I guess it could from on the site it's $149 a month to 2,000 and then you can go to an Enterprise package like we have an Enterprise package with Clay so so so okay so $149 plus the $97 of instantly um which by the way we are aware we're not the cheapest but we really try strive to be like the Apple in the market out there like have like a good quality very simple to use and you know like and then we have like the AI inbox thingy that replies on outop P rather than having to like use chat gbt and build like a full integration train the model yourself like we've done all of that for you um and you know like for less than I don't know like for less than $500 you could probably have like an entire team you know rather than having to having to hire two or three people or an assistant someone to get the data for you to reply the to reply on your behalf like it's just crazy and and you can scale that and go even further so I don't know like it's just like this is something that I was very excited honestly to do like a webinar with you guys um because I feel like um we are just complimented each other just to make people's lives easier so um I think maybe we can answer some questions from the community uh because I'm already seeing a few questions here so sure yeah how about we go like so here Fiona Fiona camon is asking can you share the prompt you use to generate the outbound ideas with GPT I think she is referring to the one yeah let me just pull it how would I even should I read it or do I drop it in chat I guess you can drop the chat I guess you could drop it in chat later but maybe like if if you want to go through the process of building like a good a good um it's probably more valuable so I think I just the chat and we'll see but the um the uh here's the thing with creating promps I think it's a four-step process that I do every time and and people are like I can't make my prompts work for me I'm like I'll explain that in a second so a um the process that we have for creating prompts is I first always think to myself okay step one overall what do I want this prompt to do so I want this prompt to create three bullet points so I say hey all right you're going to be giving an input create three bullet points of marketing ideas that are possible with cold email um in the output and then the second step that we do is we feed it the information that we need it to to do I still see people making this mistake they'll they'll say you know write an email to this company and make it personalized and it's like the the input is literally just instantly. a and it's like okay I mean maybe gbt knows about instantly. a but like that's not you can't just do that so you got to give it the information that you want it to reference I always I always say like always have GPT reference things don't let gbt just do its own research just say hey this is the input you're going to be using and you're going to take it from there so step one generally give it a direction of what it needs to be doing step two give it the data that it needs to be referencing don't let it do its own research and its own thinking another thing to think about too is um always have it do one thing at a time I'll I'll talk about creating a prompt that I've wanted to create that I made a mistake on and I'll talk about that after as a troubleshooting guide but so then step three is now you have to take all of the variants that the GPT might have and then funnel it into one thing right so I always say that AI is kind of like you're talking to the smartest human in the world and so if you told the smartest human in the world oh you're talking to the smartest human in the world who has absolutely no context about what you're doing so if you tell the smartest human in the world hey we're selling tacos now there's so many questions that come from selling tacos like what kind of tacos do we only sell tacos on Taco Tuesday can we even say that because Taco Bell trademark that are we selling toy tacos like there's just so many like questions that come from it so you want to use step three to really refined this is exactly what I want the prompt to look like so then we go further and we say hey we want it to be three bullet points we want it to be about like marketing ideas that only have to do with outbound cold email we want it to be um only businessto business ideas we want it to be um like each bullet point can only be 15 words like that's where you want to really shrink it down this is also the section and I think this is where most people go wrong with AI prompts is they will do the AI prompt and then they'll just look at it and they say well didn't work I'm done but the AI prompts the bad ones are the key to fixing your prompts so whatever happened wrong in your example prompts you want to go back and figure out okay why did that happen and how can I fix it so one thing I was dealing with one day was like it kept saying the company name including like the LLC and like all those things so then in my third step that's where I fixed it I said if you see a company name normalize it like a human would say it don't say QVC LLC say you know QVC and take out any extra symbols and all that other stuff so instead step three that's where we're doing most of our work of refining things and then step four I either give it a prefix um or I tell it how I want it to look so a prefix I use prefixes a lot in my prompts so that I'm in control of the messaging so because if you just say hey write a personalized first line to this company I have no clue what that line is really going to sound like but if I say write a personalized first line to this company and use this prefix every time hey I was on LinkedIn and I saw your company helped people blah blah blah then you know what this is going to like you know what the output is going to look like so you can write the rest of your email with confidence and you kind of know what it's all going to se look like there and then for doing more complicated things we'll also say here's some examples of some things that are good they have nothing to do with the output that you should be creating you should only learn from the formatting here and so one prompt that I made a mistake on last week that I was trying to create is I was I thought of this PS line that I wanted to create a PS line based on positive news that happened at a company um that somebody used to work at and that positive news happened while they were working at the company and if we can't find something for the company then we would do positive news that happened at the college that they went to while they were at the college so we would analyze and be like okay you worked at Salesforce from 2010 to 2022 one positive thing that happened then is they acquired slack so then the PS line would then become hey you know I noticed in your background you know you work for Salesforce did you have anything to do with the slack acquisition that's like the end line that we wanted to create but the mistake I kept making is I kept asking it to do the research and output the line all in one prompt and that was getting crazy it was it was just absolutely nuts so I changed it and I made one prompt for just get historical ideas for the companies just get historical ideas for the colleges and then pick the most specific interesting ones and turn that into a sentence so then we would have inputs of their company experience and that would feed one prompt inputs of their college experience and that would feed another prompt and then I would have examples of what good lines looked like and what I thought was really specific and then we fed that into another prompt and then we could get like you know the the like Eric I saw you used to work you know at the Gateway Chamber of Commerce how cool was it when you know like were you did you have anything to do with the blah blah blah oh and another prompt we did was we took their title into account too so if they were the CEO or SE suite at that company of course they had to do something with that so we would say what was it like when this thing happened and then if they didn't have a seite title we would ask like were you a part of crazy news story um so anyway I hope that's some guidance into AI prompting did I did I even answer that question you think oh yeah 100% okay defitely that question above and beyond definitely like always yeah yeah yeah by the way seen seen some love here in the comments um just sign up for instantly and recently heard of clay so this is perfect timing for me awesome this is the kind of yeah kind of stuff I love to see um I don't know Patrick if uh you want to go over like um the integration between uh insulin C I mean Eric already covered that so I don't know if that's NE necessary but um yeah maybe we can just going questions it's like it's relatively basic um Eric uh maybe afterwards can just pull the campaign he just showed and just show how it works but I mean essentially what you're doing is you're creating personalizations within clay you're then inputting into a variable and instantly so the way that we all are writing copy is we're writing a template and in that template are a series of variables that are changing depending on the person or company that we're reaching out to so in Eric's example all of those suggestions that he has it's a variable and we're uploading that variable via the integration with Clan instantly to instantly and instantly is incredible for AI personalization so it allows you to upload those variables to instantly very easily and then send them out and sequence them via instantly so Eric would U my service is so shoty I'm like afraid to do it but could you share your screen and show how the integration works yeah and this is this is something that um James you're killing it with that reply rate that's pretty crazy this is something that I think is to be honest a little bit funny to me when people ask me they're like well how do you integrate instantly with your messaging like how does how does all of that work and I don't know I think people's brains break a little bit when uh when we're putting this together because a lot of people think of custom variables I guess as just like one word but custom variables can also be like a whole paragraph right and so all you need to do when you want to send messaging from your clay table to an instantly campaign is literally just fill out everything that you need you need an email first name last name company name all these things they have one personalization but uh we should probably even get rid of that I'm not even sure if that's live anymore this is probably the old thing because then you have your custom variables in here and we want to send all of this data to the uh table well to instantly and so um they actually made a request that they wanted the work phone the LinkedIn URL and the personal phone of the person so that's why it's there we're not actually using that in the campaign that they just made a request that they wanted it on their side but see how we have this this variable named creative ideas and then all we're doing is we're just inserting the creative ideas variable so literally whatever is in this column even though it's like three bullet points and it's like 50 words or whatever this is we're just inserting it as one variable and it all just goes in just like that and then probably my favorite part about using clay as a workflow is you could set up a conditional formula where the conditional formula here honestly isn't that that crazy but see how what we're doing here is we're only running this if the master email column has data and creative ideas has data and uh like a couple of other these things which isn't even really pertinent anymore what I was talking about before right of like when if you wanted to launch a campaign to people who had 50 employees and more or a different campaign to people who had 50 employees and less like that that you would have to do manually you'd have to upload csvs and it'd be crazy but with the conditional formula editor in clay you could just do it all right here and you can have two Integrations and no matter what's happening about the campaign like here here's one campaign we used to run this campaign we don't run this campaign anymore but see like look how crazy we could get yet and I'll tell you that like we weren't even spending that many clay credits right and so we were launching four different campaigns depending on what industry the prospects were in so if they were in the management consulting industry we launched that campaign if they were in the Staffing recruiting industry we launch this campaign if we were in the financial industry Services campaign uh industry then we launch this campaign and so see how like this costs no clay credits and we're automatically still getting value of just being able to just upload a huge list of companies and then just having it sift through everything and then we use the builtwith integration which either you can use your own API or you could use clay credits so I will say now we're paying for stuff then we use the bu withth integration to launch a tech campaign and then if we couldn't do anything like the tech campaign didn't work and all of the other stuff didn't work like these then we would send them uh a AI generated Campaign which this is so old this was like maybe one of the first AI generated campaigns I ever created which this is kind of crazy like thinking back on it um where we're literally saying it looks like you sell to marketing strategists or it looks like you sell to Behavioral Healthcare and special education professionals looks like you sell to advertisers and Publishers right like we're just analyzing who their ICP is wow this is crazy throwback like this is this this was like Cutting Edge for me when I like first made this this is so funny and so then we're just automatically running a fallback campaign where even if they didn't qualify for all of the other things over here we're we're launching them over here and when it comes to Clay credits we're using one clay credit here for enriching the company this is our own API this is all of our own API this is our own API and then this is our own API and so like I didn't like I'm robbing clay at this point like there's no like I'm not using clay for anything basically uh to this campaign happen right so um yeah the that's how like the integration can work so seamlessly with instantly but then you could also just be sending things in different directions and and doing all those things for whatever $350 a month um basically like either half or quarter or just a fraction of what you would have to like hire a person to do these things for yeah I think I think that's a good hack and and obviously like this kind of plays against us but since we're like sharing like how to reuse your cost um you can actually also have unlimited contacts on instantly um so basically we developed like a few weeks actually was a few months ago um something called lists and basically um not only you can save on Clay credits by using external apis but also an instantly you can just store as much data as you want it's unlimited and then later on push it to a campaign so we actually created that thinking I mean we had a lot of requests from people like hey do I have to delete my contacts um if I want to contact more people and then we were like brainstorming like how can we make it happen so you know like so it's it's um you know it works financially for us but also so people don't need to like like a thousand spreadsheets flying all over the place um so yeah then we created like the list feature and basically you can just have unlimited contexts and then you push you push them to a campaign and they they become active contacts um and then they can't against your credits and then you can just move them back to leiste which they're just gonna be idle so um yeah like it is a feature that not not a lot of people know and you know sometimes people they are like um you know like ah it's going to get expensive I have like I don't know the database of like a million people and then I'm then we we ask them I mean we ask people like are you actually going to contact the million people in one go and they're like no well actually you could have them all um and you don't have to pay like a fortune for it so since we're like talking about small hacks um I guess this was a good one this there is this question here in the community um by the way he means reply rate not open rate he correct himself but basically he's asking what's a good reply a reply rate to aim for when having a clay project so and and also then yeah go for it so this is something our customers ask us all the time and it just it just really depends and I'm going to tell you what it depends on so first of all when you're when we say like a clay project I think you're really talking about like the cost and then making the messaging and and doing all those things the um what I tell everybody is that your offer is more important than the crazy personalization you put in front of it if somebody sends me an email and they say Eric oh my gosh I've been following your content it's been crazy you when I first started following you you had 8,000 followers and now you've got 27,000 followers on LinkedIn I've been along for the ride the entire time when you were at the Chamber of Commerce blah blah like if they send me like this crazy personalized message and then they're like do you want to buy a bouncy house I'd be like hey man like great like it was a it was a great message don't get me wrong but like I don't need a bouncy house so like no I'm out like I I don't need that and so your offer has more to do with reply rates and all those things then like the clay campaign and the AI and and all of those things and so um when you're measuring reply rates it's it's just so diffic difficult because it just depends on your offer so this is the way that we look at it is on average last year across all of our customers we had to send 329 emails to Le well we had to send to 329 contacts in order to get one positive response now this number is also corroborated with Nick Abraham if you don't know who he is he is Alle Legend like and when people like in the chat people are calling me the goat that's not true like Nick Abraham has triple the amount of clients he's an operation specialist he's he's a amazing at Cold email awesome dude and he he even tweeted he said if we get 300 for if we reach out to 375 people and we get a positive response we scale that campaign and I was like all right cool so I'm not crazy like 320 375 great like this is this is what we're working with so then it all becomes a situation of what does your target addressable market look like right because if you if you say you got a campaign where you were reaching out to 150 people and you got one positive response which that's basically what we're doing for instantly right now for basically every 150 people we reach out to we get a positive response they have 12,000 people in their Tam what should we do should I think of a campaign that would beat this campaign or should I just send more emails in that situation you should definitely send more emails now let's also take into consideration what if you've tried 12 different ideas and you've got one campaign that's getting for every 500 people you reach out to you're getting a positive response and your Tam still has 120 th000 people in it well you've tried 12 other ideas this is your best campaign you should keep experimenting but you should just scale that campaign and just make it work right and just just keep going what you want to do is always look at your Tam as how many emails per day can I send so that I don't have to reuse this list every two months minimum two months and even two months is pushing it really it's like every three months is way better when you have to reuse a list now let's take it on the flip side where you're like okay there's 10,000 people in my market and for every 750 50 people I reach out to I get a positive response no go that's not a that's not like that's not going to work that's not mathematically going to work because you're going to email all those people and within a month you're going to be done and you're you're gonna have to reuse the list and it's just it's just not going to be great so um when you're you're talking about like what's a good reply rate it's so tough because it depends on your offer we have some customers that like we have one one agency that we do software development um work like they're a software development company an outsourc software development company and we do stuff for them they're probably the only software development company I would work with because they understand expectations well and every time I talk about this people want me to run the campaign for them and I just refused because he just really understands the expectations he gets like five positive responses and we send we send maybe 10,000 emails a month for him and he gets like five but each one of those responses he closes two out of each of them and his contracts are $50,000 each so it's like great like that math works out so when people are talking about Good reply r this that and the other thing you have to take in cons into consideration how many leads do I have to reach out to in order to get a positive response how big is my Tam after I've done my testing and can we scale this campaign so by the time I have to reuse this list it's three months later down the road and then three does the math just even make sense so for the amount that you're paying to like run these campaigns does the math make sense so Alex Heros says that you can spend like a third of what it whatever Revenue you're going to receive gross profit like gross profit Revenue whatever gross profit Revenue you're going to receive from a customer you can spend a third of that to acquire the customer so if your gross profit is $1,000 you can spend $ 300ish dollars to acquire them so then again it's just a math equation of like all right the data that you are sending and the time it takes you to close this customer and all those things put in does that work and so reply rates across everything I can't answer that but these are the Frameworks that we think of to say okay is this working or is this not working yeah makes a lot of sense a question from matis um Eddie what um yeah most favorite Cent use cases live updated data so what I mean by that is like if you really need to know some custom research about a company that is either live or it's not listed the same way every time that's my favorite use case so we just used it to help a company that um and I guess I could say I'll say it it was a company that uh was in the heroi portfolio and we did a small Consulting project for them I'm not saying like we are endorsed by the heroi portfolio right now but what they wanted to do is they wanted to build a list of investors and they wanted to understand who what kind of companies do these investors invest in now if you just look at the front front page of a venture capital website or you look at the LinkedIn description of a venture capital website you're really not going to get a whole lot of information the only other option that you could get is like maybe look at their past um Investments but then if you do that that like it's going to be crazy to try to enrich that you're really not going to get everything it's just going to get crazy so cagent is a perfect example for this and this is where a two-step cagent processes best because again you always when you're do using AI you always want always always always want to um you always want to give it one task at a time so then what we did is we said hey go find the page where they list the types of companies that they invest in and we gave a huge prompt and we the only difference with Cent prompting is that I gave before is like we're still doing though like hey this is generally what you should look at here's the inputs that you should look at but instead of all like just doing the thing where we were fine what the output would should look like we also list out how we would do it manually as a human as well and then that gets put into the cagent prompt so we said I usually search on Google and I look for you know company name investment thesis or whatever it might be it finds the page then we do two options and we see what works better we scrape that page with zenos and we get just the content from the page and then we use 3.5 to summarize it and then we use four to like make an output of who they actually invest in or you can use cayan to look at that page and make the decision of what kind of companies they invest in just see which one works for you better on cost in this example I think finding the page and then scraping it with zenr and then summarizing it with a cheaper AI model was the better way to do it but so like this really custom research is probably my favorite kind of use cases for Cent a lot of classification things that people are doing I like but clent has a little bit of like an unpredictability to it and so like I see people all the time who are like oh I use Cent to classify if this company is an e-com company or not it's like don't do that because it could go like a little bit off the rails if you just use serper dodev and you SCP and like you scrape for a Google shopping um thing so one there's no e-commerce brand in the planet that's not using Google shopping and then two the only way Google shopping can exist is if there's an item to be transacted so then it's like if you if there's just a Google shopping result when you use s.dev to scrape the the search then it's an e-commerce brand or if you're for a company and you're like oh I really want to know if this Law Firm handles wrongful termination like just do a Google search on top of their site and see if they mention wrongful termination because yeah it's either gonna be there or it's not like that that's just the way it's going to be so when we're doing cagent stuff it's really like this more custom research that's not going to be the same every time and we can't just do like a keyword scan or we can't just scrape things for that so again I hope I even answer that question sometimes yeah I also seen you using it for scraping uh the pricing pages and I find that super smart like especially especially yeah yeah no especially when you start doing stuff like I don't know targeting companies that do Enterprise only uh sales and then you know you can start like matching that with the offer um and it's just crazy how it pumps the the reply rates like for example this um so this campaign that I just show you that you know this person getting a 15% reply rate with a combo of instantly and Clay um he does something very similar you know he runs clent and just like you were saying like he will just match like a few variables he will also try to keep the the this factor of you know the the Mel being a B on predictable sometimes like very low and yeah he he didn't want me to disclose the full sauce he asked me personally not to do it but he gave me uh you know approval to share some of the results which is awesome um so yeah love that so here is a question from go on yeah sorry oh sorry yeah another thing I add about Clay is just honestly it's good for any task that it's difficult to do repetitively or program atically with regards to research so I think the pricing page is a great example of that like to find a pricing page like and for every different website it's going to be different finding the pricing page it could be same with finding the blog or finding like contact information you can't do that the same way over and over again Cent's a much smarter way to do it because it figures out that way as opposed to um other like other generic scrapers that use a programmatic approach to scraping so just in general it's it's so powerful and it's great for finding any Niche data too like just data you cannot find from generic data providers like when was their last YouTube video like going to be kind of hard to find that at scale right or like what like how when was when's their next webinar coming up or what's the name of their latest fashion collection I don't know whatever it doesn't matter but really good for those yeah we we'll reans this one in a way but if there's anything else you want to add so there's so there's ah this whole debate between relevance versus personalization and so I'm I'm here to say that relevance is of course the better thing don't like hate me for what I'm about to say I completely understand if you could be relevant be relevant if you could reach out to a restaurant and say hey I saw on Yelp people were complaining about your parking lot lot not being paved do you need anybody to come in and pave it of course that's the best message that you could say I totally get yeah so then so what I call relevance is like using AI to send an email like a first line that has to do with your problem like we're we're going to call that relevant I looked into your open job positionings for an SDR role versus an AE role and it looks like the commissions are completely different for each role how are you keeping track of all of your different commissions great like that's relevant personalization is I it's just more of like an atttention hack right and so the thing with relevance is not every offer has relevance that you could possibly message to like you don't know like there's not always something that you can say in order to make your message relevant because you can't do the research it's something private about the company and so um I I feel like there's personalization where there's just personalization almost for personalization sake which I'm actually a fan of because I'd way rather send an email with personalization than not because at least you gave a little bit of of stuff there now there's personalization that's just bad and just don't do it anymore like just being like oh I saw you went to Ruckers amazing like there's stuff like that that like just don't do that there's a new thing that we're doing with all of our new customers that we call recency that this is becoming the first line for all of our our new customers and so it's a type of personalization that the only way that the point of the personalization is to show hey you're receiving an email out of the blue but it's only because you did something recently that is why I'm emailing you and so we've created a waterfall this is my next YouTube video I haven't filmed it yet but my wife is going to Miami this week and we are gonna Hammer YouTube videos this weekend my boys crazy and so um yeah when my wife goes away I just literally just work it's like other guys would I don't even know what other guys do I just work and so um with this recency waterfall what we're checking for is like anything that you would find about a person that they recently did that then would catch your eye and then you would start looking to their company and that's why you started sending an email so first we're looking to see if uh they're new in their role because that's just a great trigger just overall and if we can catch them while they're new in their role amazing then we're checking if they're promoted um in their role and then we want to check like promoted recently and then we want to check if they've just ever been promoted because then that'll allows us to send a line of like hey like you got a promotion I'm sure the way you get promotions is having you know new ideas and bringing it to the team I've got a new idea for you that's kind of like the angle of that one and then we're checking if uh they have posted recently on LinkedIn we're checking if the company has posted recently on LinkedIn we're checking if the the company has been shouted out in a podcast recently we use clent for that because there's no like I'm literally just being like has this come been mentioned on a podcast and usually what we'll get is like the CEO is going to be mentioned uh on the podcast and then there's a couple other things that we're checking for um recent news about the company that we get from predict leads and then there's one more recency that we're checking for oh a new leader being hired at the company or a new individual contributor being hired at the company so if they're in the head level like we'll say like oh you know the new Chief marketing officer or if they're like at the head level of marketing and then they hired a new graphic designer like we're checking for those things too all of these things so that we can have a recent thing to be like hey like this thing happened and like I'm just the guy reaching out now because we found this recent thing that happened and I I guess this is a perfect time to plug that like I'll be making a full YouTube video on this so go follow at uh Eric no lowski and you'll see the the whole thing of what I'm talking about and so these are kind of like the new when our clients don't have anything better to say as a first line for the personalization we're using the recency waterfall which is just a bunch of clay Integrations with AI script that it stops running as soon as it finds the thing and it's also ordered in cost so like that way we can just keep going with like super cheap things that's either free because if it didn't find it then it's not going to charge us anything or it's just ratcheting up in cost and we'll just end with the most expensive thing and uh we'll be using that for our first line so again I think that was a four minute way to explain something really simple but uh a personalized opening line for cold leads would be some of those unless you have something more relevant to say to them love it uh next question by Dino um what's your process when starting a prospecting strategy do you test out massively uh value positions targets pain points um I guess Patrick if you want you can also answer this one so this this is the newest thing oh wait was this for me or for Patrick I mean for whoever wants to Value really go ahead Eric yeah I'll go ahe yeah so um the this is the newest thing that we're going to do with all of our customers and this is YouTube video number two that need to be working on is so we've actually found working with our customers that it most of the time a crazy list has not really increased response rates like it like the amount of times that you really change your list and your list increased the amount of response rates isn't that high it's really when you find that thing that people are super interested in like when they receive a cold email and it's like are you interested in unlimited inboxes with instantly or are you interested in their lead Finder right most people are more interested in the unlimited inboxes than than they are with the unlimited lead finder because they they kind of have that it's like leads who knows like blah blah blah Apollo is charging them $50 a month for inboxes don't quote me on that I made that up I have no clue and so we know that it's more interesting to message about unlimited inboxes and unlimited sending than it is to message the the other way and so uh what we're starting to do with all of our customers is we just have like templated campaigns that we're just going to launch first and we're just going to swap out value propositions so that we could test the value propositions and the pain points and all those things much faster than setting up a campaign like there was one company that I set up it took me four hours to build their clay table like no lie like four hours to build their clay table and we still got no responses and it's because we didn't do like a value proposition testing that then when we went back with the better value proposition with that better data it works so much better so we're going to be doing this value proposition testing um earlier yeah and in short I mean as Eric was kind of alluding to like all we're working on is testing as many iterations of this as possible to get something that's skills relatively well um and that includes offers too like what offers are going to be the most enticing for somebody to respond to um like what can we realistically give away or what value can we bring to a prospect that will allow them to respond to to the campaign so at the end of the day like I I feel like most C email and short is just testing a lot of value props and I I think I think also targeting still is massively underrated like um even when I'm doing clay Imports sometimes I'll do a clay import and I won't get any positive responses I'll do Apollo like relatively similar to targeting but like one or two tweaks maybe I'll add like one filter and it'll do significantly better so I would I would honestly like I mean it's pretty obvious but in short just test a ridiculous amount um and ideally um if you do that at a large enough scale with enough leads for it to be statistically significant you will probably get something or at least enough data to determine whether cold email is enough a good enough Channel or a viable channel to use for your product I think it's always just answering like how do you send something that when somebody reads it they're like oh this is what I'm going to get in return you know yes um and so is a PO of response of meeting booked no no 100% no no but that's my whole goes from your best idea to a positive response so that's why I always talk in positive responses yeah actually I I yeah I want to highlight this question because I I want to ask you guys like how do you guys um increase the the meeting book kind of rate because um you know I feel like this is an issue for for like some people like they will get a reply and then like what are the next steps right like how do they how do they increase those like basically how do they make more Revenue um after getting replies so yeah how do you currently manage that I'm going to just reiterate what Alex hosi said because like there's nothing better that we could possibly say so when we had the opportunity with the instantly team to have an interview with Alex rosi the interview almost got a little trite at one point because he almost like for everything that we asked like even his team we sent them the questions and they were like this is way too many questions you got to shorten this up and uh everything that we asked he was like you just need a better lead magnet you just need a better like literally every everything that we asked he was like you just need a better lead magnet so we've even found too like if we were to run an outbound campaign and we were gonna say you know hey would you want to learn about how we could run outbound campaigns for you you're you're not gonna like you're gonna have drop off from people who you know are going to they're going to say they're interested and then they're just not going to book or they're not going to show up to the meeting whatever it might be but when shifted to like hey we'll score 5,000 accounts for you for absolutely free you just need to hop on a call so that we know that we're doing it correctly and we'll do it live in front of you like nobody like if if we say if they positively respond to that I would say almost nobody is not moving on to the next step and and booking with us and so I hate to be so trit but I'm just gonna respond with what Alex MOSI said because there's nothing really better that we could say so it's just if if you're having a problem booking meetings there's simple stuff that you need to be doing like responding right away giving them lots of options like and following up with them and like all of those basic things that you already know you need to be doing but then the big thing is like how can you increase the carrot that like if you attend this call this amazing thing is going to happen yeah I I agree with you and and actually that that's the reason why we built this whole like AI inbox manager thing and we also launch an app because you know we felt like the the response time is such a critical component that we I mean actually a lot of people don't know this but we have a phone app so literally people while while they're waiting I don't know at the theater or for the boss uh um they can just from their phone like reply back um and yeah it's it there's some components that make it definitely faster but yeah the um what you just say like makes total sense like I agree with with hormos so I think we can end it with just this comment Eric is a legend and uh just like really appreciate all the value that uh you know you Patrick and Eric you know have been sharing here like I'm just listening I'm just learning uh just sharing a little bit of data here but but yeah like really appreciate you guys taking the time to join us I'm sure like our entire Facebook Community like has benefited a lot from t uh yeah all I can say was a pleasure to uh to be on a live with you guys yeah we really appreciate it um we also we love instantly amazing tool it makes it really easy to to do webinars like this because there's just no like it just works so like the integration is unbelievable and um I I again I mean just to like reiterate what we said before to be able to essentially have like an ads Network at your finger tips for like $200 all in is insane and tools that instantly allow that to happen like it's so so so much value for what you're paying I mean it's it's like so marginal especially once you start getting start getting results you like you won't even think about it because it's just it's so unbelievable so on you know it was great to talk about it yeah awesome yeah all right so once again guys it's uh great to see you again and like yeah we hope we can have another live maybe we can have a part two and go maybe go more in depth uh let's see if I can get approval from this one guy that was getting 50% reply rate like share the secret sace maybe we can go through like his crazy tables who knows yeah yeah yeah we should do it all right guys great to see you yes
